I've posted the following idea on worldnews, where it contradicts the programmed groupthink and therefore, gets a hostile reception. I also posted it to geopolitics and got upvotes. It goes like this.

To understand what Russia is doing, you have to see the world through Russian eyes. Putin obviously doesn't wake up in the morning and say "Gee, I wonder what bad guy stuff can I do today?" He sees himself as the hero who sticks up for Russia.

And what do Russians think/worry about when it comes to geopolitics? Invasion. Russia has suffered from overland invasions in it's history. From the Mongols to the French under Napoleon.... and by Germany under the Nazis.

Right now, the Russians are looking at a steady eastward expansion of NATO. A west European military alliance. Check out this map. It shows the difference in NATO over the last 20 years. And here's a map that shows the nations that want to join.

Imagine that you're a Russian looking at these maps. It's easy to see a slow but steady process of encirclement. This is no secret either. It's part of a well-known US policy of Russian containment. So what does this have to do with Russia and WWIII?

Ukraine. This is a country that has a very long border with Russia. It also shares much of the coastline of the Black sea. If Ukraine were to become a NATO member, the Russians would have a member of a western European military alliance right on their border. We see NATO as the good guys, they don't.

But there's a catch to Ukraine joining NATO. Among other things, a country cannot join if they are involved in an active territorial dispute. Enter the Crimean penninsula.

By annexing the Crimea, the Russians have managed to ensure control over one of Russia's strategically important naval assets. At the same time, they created a territorial issue that prevents NATO from accepting Ukraine as a member nation.

I suspect that a similar motivation is behind Putin's support for the pro-Russian rebels in Eastern Ukraine. Prevent Ukraine from joining NATO, or perhaps, create a buffer state between NATO and Russia itself.

When you look at things this way, events in Ukraine, from a Russian perspective..... are defensive in nature. But the MSM has relentlessly been portraying them as naked aggression.

On a short scale of time, just focusing on the last few months, it does look like aggression. But if you take a look at the big picture and factor in things that have been taking place over a period of decades, the picture starts to look a lot different.

I'll finish this with a quote from George Orwell that seems appropriate:

All the war-propaganda, all the screaming and lies and hatred, comes invariably from people who are not fighting.

edit: Hey, thanks to whoever gave gold for this!

Putin is a patriot. He does what he thinks is best for his country. When that guy who won a peace nobel prize orders his troops to invade another country because of evil terrorist nobody in the western media gives a shit.

TIL George Bush won a Nobel peace prize

Barack obama too, nobel peace price even.

I actually meant Obama and not bush. Should have added "black guy".

He mostly won it for not being Bush.

So you and I deserve one too?

I don't know about you but I'm pretty sure I do.

Comments such as this remind me why I frequent this sub.

100%. There's definitely a lot of silly content/comments here, but also a significant amount of valuable input thinking differently.

The same could be said for any subreddit, any messageboard, any social media site, or any social community in the entire world. People want to easily dismiss that which conflicts with their every day life- if they even care about things happening outside of their every day life.

EDIT: thanks for the discussion guys.

You kind of hit on this, but don't underestimate what access to the Crimean Sea, means to Russia.

Before Ukraine gained independence, Odessa and I believe Sevastopol were their largest, and most strategic Naval bases. They controlled the Crimean Strait. I think this is also a huge reason for the takeover of Crimea.

Also, another reason IMHO for the takeover, is the nationalist atmosphere it creates. I think I read a study once, that argued when nationalism was rampant, birth rates were much higher. Russia is losing population like crazy. Putin has been incentivizing people to have children. I think this also plays into it.

I think the birth thing is indirect but it would be interesting to look at the United States link between patriotic speeches, que georges victory speech, and births 9 months later.

I know when soldiers come home from major conflicts birth rates sky rocket..for obvious reasons. But, a study to find if patriotic speech, foreign attacks (allegedly foreign attacks lol), wars, nationalism etc that would be an interesting case study. I bet there is some data waiting to be found.

[deleted]

True this whole "missle defense system" is complete bullshit, I don't blame putin for any of his reactions, he is definitely no idiot.

It's part of a well-known US policy of Russian containment.

This is a bit misleading. The US might have a policy of Russian containment, but the expansion of NATO happened mostly by allowing countries to join, rather than influencing or coercing them to do so. Take the Baltic's for example. It's difficult to overstate just how devastating Soviet rule was in these countries. It left a deep national trauma that is still visible today. Just as an anecdote, a friend of mine who is living in Estonia recently had his neighbours call the cops because an old lady wouldn't let the internet company in the basement to draw new lines, accusing them of being spies. A large portion of the population in these countries are still very scared of Russia.

It bothers me that people only see these countries as pawns in some great game. The US didn't expand NATO, most ex-Soviet countries joined as soon as they could because they saw themselves as incapable of defending themselves against Russia.

The US might have a policy of Russian containment, but the expansion of NATO happened mostly by allowing countries to join, rather than influencing or coercing them to do so.

But but but this....

The US didn't expand NATO, most ex-Soviet countries joined as soon as they could because they saw themselves as incapable of defending themselves against Russia.

That is a damn good influence to join NATO. "Join us or get rekt."

It bothers me how people can use words to form their own narrative.

Ciggey is pointing out that states are willing to join NATO as protection against Russia.

What are you trying to say here? You bold 'rather than influencing or coercing them to do so.' and 'incapable of defending'

What connection are you trying to imply?

A country that feels threatened by Russia can be influenced to join NATO due to protection offered against foreign threats.

War is a racket.

especially if a puppet government is installed "cough" ukaine "cough"

Are you saying that the west influenced the Baltic's to join by convincing them that Russia is a threat?

Nah. Not talking about that. Just saying that a Russian threat is a good influence to join NATO. Seeing as you said these countries just joined NATO for defense yet you say it happened because other member states allowed it to happen.

Seems contradicting to me. Please correct me if I misunderstood what you wrote

I meant allowed in the sense of not needing to influence them to join. From OP's comment

It's part of a well-known US policy of Russian containment.

This makes it sound like the US influenced the eastern European countries to join NATO. My point was that all the US needed to do to encircle Russia was allowing the bordering nations to join. The only way Russia wouldn't be encircled by NATO is if the US denied membership of these countries.

You gotta admit that US technological prowess can influence geopolitics.

This shit is going down like some reverse cold war. Back then Russia had its USSR while today the US has NATO.

It was NATO vs Warsaw Pact. Now it's just Russia.

Thank you for this well thought out response, what do you think of the supposed link between the CIA and the interim president who ordered the war against the rebels? If it was true how exactly would the regime change play into this? Is our current situation an unintended consequence of that action or a direct response to it?

When looking at it from Russia's perspective, this doesn't matter. The treaty means that the US and European armies are right on his doorstep ( attack on one is an attack on all).

It is effectively US empire expansion.

Do you think that the US should have denied membership of the eastern European countries out respect for the Russians? NATO across their border is a direct consequence of the Soviet Union. It's why Estonia is a NATO member but Finland isn't. Russia doesn't oppose NATO expansion because they're afraid of a western attack on Russia, they oppose it because it significantly reduces their possibility to influence those countries. Is the fact that Russia can't use military force against the Baltic's somehow an infringement against Russia?

I'm only explaining how Russia sees it, not blaming the US. Whether Nato intended to expand or not doesn't change the meaning of the the treaty, and what that means to Russia.

Europe is not part of the US empire.

It's Nato. Read article 5 of the founding document. An attack on one is considered an attack on all. That means effectively the US army is stationed on Russias border

The neo conservative movement made russia out to be the "boogey man" just like the misrepresentation of isis power we are seeing at the moment. If those smaller countries are or were indeed "scared" enough of russia to join nato, then i would suggest it was the neo conservative movements propaganda which exaggerated that fear.

That is the most condescending thing I've read in quite some while. Not literally everything is about the US. These little countries are perfectly capable of having an opinion that might not have been put there by the almighty force of the US government.

These are peoples who have long histories and cultural identities just like anyone else. The Soviet Union devastated their way of life. Huge amounts of people were sent to prison camps or executed. They lived for decades in fear under a foreign government, with a different culture and language. But no, that's not apparently not a valid reason for fear of that country. It was all invented by the US to scare them. I honestly would wish to see you explain to someone from the Baltic's who lived under Soviet rule that the reason for their paranoia against Russia stems from being brainwashed by neo conservative American propaganda. This fucking white washing of history for the sake of fitting your narrative is so unbelievably rude it hurts my brain.

do you know the history of the neo conservative's ?

Apparently they're the guys convinced the Estonians that being sent to Siberian prison camps was actually a bad and scary thing, instead of the party they previously thought it was.

ahh yeah we are on different pages mate. Im talking about the neo conservatives movement that stemmed from the teachings of the philosopher Leo Strauss, which lead to the neo conservatives involvement in the 1st bush administration and the CIA. All this is well documented, if your interested i would recommend looking into it.

I will if you'll look into the history of the Baltic's under Soviet rule. Maybe then will both come out of this a bit smarter.

sounds good :) thanks for the info!

Your post makes sense, and it is no secret why Putin is doing any of this, but that doesn't make it right.

"Lets annexx some parts from neighboring countries because it makes me feel safe" is an explanation, not a justification. Just because he has a good reason for doing so doesn't make it any less evil. He is lying about sending troops over borders and causing instability and death. He utilises a propaganda machines that regularly lies about what is happening as long as it makes people love Russia and hate those neo nazi ukranians.

Yeah, he has got a reason to do why he is doing what he is doing. That doesn't make it right, that just means he has a reason. Israel has a reason for oppressing palestinians. They think it is instrumental in keeping the Israeli state safe. That is a reason, not a justification.

Not trying to justify. This is geopolitics. There is no right, no wrong. There are only alliances competing with each other in order to advance their own interests. Sorry if that sounds heartless, but it's a heartless world out there.

On the other hand, speaking from the point of view of person from NATO country that was not long ago occupied by Russia, I see NATO enlargement as defensive measure against offensive Russian nature of overtaking its neighbor states and making them buffer zones.

Everyone has it's own ideas how things are and how they should be, it is not just black and white situation.

Think far more long term. Russia wants to be the next US:

• They need to have a solid relationship with China.
• They need to havea way to become a true first world.

Looks like this is what their plan is. It is a resource-cold-war we are in. China owns africa.

So the cycle continues.

A theory I have is that the U.S.F.G. has been long term partners with Russia post the Cold War. In order to, not only maintain a "balance" in the world, but to have your "Capitalist" economy thrive, you need constant growth and expansion. What better what to promote that, than with an archenemy like Russia?

Then you introduce the idea of a breakaway civilization with advanced technology which is not available for the public.

I had always thought that was the U.S.A., but could it be possible that it's another country? The first that comes to my mind is Israel. If Israel is truly as entrenched in U.S. politics as it seems, they would be the most likely to be benefiting from our technological progress.

I honestly can't see any current country exceeding that power. Japan, or Russia, maybe? In double secret probation? No other country really has the ability to have such technology...

Ultimately it transcends countries and ideologies and geopolitics, in my opinion. Globalists have no allegiance to anyone or anything but themselves.

This is almost certainly the case. It can be traced back to Paperclip after the war and the mass smuggling of both Nazis and their black technology to the US and to Russia.

China owns africa.

Well, they don't quite own it yet. But they are willing to do business with governments that the USA and Europe won't touch. And they come over in person, with plenty of funding, to open and run all kinds of local ventures.

China is definitely interested in Africa and to gain access the staggering amount of natural resources that Africa possesses. Most people don't realize this, but Africa is not represented correctly on most maps. This is especially true for the Mercator style maps.

They have distortions that make some parts of the world look larger and some look smaller. Africa is a lot bigger than you'd think. Here is a map that shows how vast the continent is. Now think of all this. The resources, the coastlines, the sheer amount of territory....... controlled by a country with 1.5 billion people. It just amazes me that China has been going full speed ahead in Africa for the last 20 years virtually unopposed while the USA diddles around in the Middle East worrying about oil.

I recall reading they're building smallish cities in some parts of Africa, then shipping a couple of hundred thousand Chinese there at a time to populate them.

Man, spot on.

Yeah the propaganda has been going berzerk lately. "Putin's nuclear russia..." or pictures of a russian plane labeled as a nuclear plane.

Most mainstream corporate media or any old guard newspaper have long been infiltrated by the CIA as a part of their vietnam white washing program. The slow media response to the WaterGate scandal is an example of this but there are dozens others throughout that time period of media intentionally avoiding or obfuscating a story in order to portray america in a better light. Time magazine is a horrendous offender of this.

I'm glad you brought up the oil aspect of this whole fiasco. You may find this interesting: http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-russia-china-counter-alliance-to-us-nato-aggression/5383873

Nice post !!

If I may, I'd also add:

Gas: Transit (now in stage of privatization to the EU) and Oligarchic control over "distribution contracts" (ex-Ukraine PM Yulia Timoshenko was knowned as Gas Queen, amongst other key Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs). Russia-Ukrainian gas deals are murky, opaque, and sustain the wealth of well-related oligarchs in both countries.

The rise and fall of Ukrainian oligarch Dmitry Firtash

Trade Partner: For Russia, Ukraine is an indispensable part of Putin's Euroasian Economic Union as is Russia's military-complex (including aviation, rocketry, weapons) reliant on Ukrainian manufacturing. As for the EU, Ukraine with its 40 million population (even if through indebtness) has the possiblity to become an important EU-market for its flailing economy, and besides all the property still under government control that can always be privatized to pay off such debt.

No Ukraine: Putin's Eurasian Union Reveals Limits to Russia's Strength

EU pressures seven African countries to complete trade agreements

Slavic Spring: Fear amongst Putin's intelligence circle that an Euromaidan could repeat itelf in Russia. While the 2011 Arab-Springs-inspired protests (mainly Bolotniy Ploschad) were succesfully dismantled and legislation has since been increasingly aggressive (censorship, regulating NGO and Non-profits, harsh sentences for protestors). Putin as such has demonstrated his "flavor" of politics (Conservative-Religious-Nationalism) as a "superior-alternative" to the West's (Decadent-Perverted-Liberalism), specially at 84% approval rating. And apparently his "Flavor" is gaining "fans" specially in Turkey, India, and even EU's right-wing parties.

The Slavic Spring is starting to look like the Arab Spring

Putin Has Far-Right Admirers All Over Europe, and They're Up for Election This Month

Amen to this response. The programming is so bad in the other subs people will say anything to parrot the mass mindset.

[deleted]

The flaw with that is that one small place like Fukushima had people claiming it was going to devastate the Earth.

Intentional widespread nuclear war, along with dead radioactive countries and all their nuclear reactor materials spread everywhere actually would achieve this goal. Nobody would survive, even if they wanted to live in a concrete box for thousands of years. It's just not a winning game plan.

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Just using his individual name so much is telling, even you are doing it. How much does this have to do with one man? Nothing.

When our State Department can't rely on policy or substance they make it about character. You can see this in whistle blowers like Manning and Snowden, or with other world leaders at odds with their agenda, like Hugo Chavez.

All of this hype would never catch on if it was phrased in the context of the Russian people, who back their government's actions whole heartedly. Americans have a boner for killing "bad guys", and once you oversimplify things they'll see an entire nation as one Rocky and Bullwinkle villain.

I'm no fan of Putin's, but removing his weird face and personality flaws, I can see things for what they are, a completely manufactured conflict who's origins lie with our State Department .

By the time Americans realize they are antagonizing an entire people, it may be too late.

You know perhaps they are both in on this. I mean the US and Russia. They will battle on proxy grounds but not on their own territories where it will come to nuclear conflict.

I would guess this is all like a big game of chess. Its not going to come to fist fights if someone takes someone else's pieces.

Perhaps some of us can see through the propaganda machine but its working on the majority of people!

I'm sorry, but borderland inhabited by ethnic Russians sure seems close enough to a home territory. It's like Russia backing an astroturf opposition and coup in Canada. It's nowhere's fucking near the same. This is personal for Russia, not some abstract game of picking presidents on the other side of the world.

There are fucking "ukrainian" soldiers right at the border of Russia.

If it does go down like that, it will escalate to nuclear. Likely on such a large scale that our civilization on this planet is destroyed. But either way, if I lived in the US I would be get the fuck out of that country. Things are about to get really bad.

Nothing for nothing but if the U.S goes down I think we will take the majority of the earth with us.

Yes they sure will. And so would Russia. Any nuclear power would.

Yea that's what I'm saying, if nukes start being used most all areas but the most remote will be destroyed. I doubt leaving America for anything short of Antarctica or a small island nation in the middle of the ocean would do any good

No avoiding nukes really anywhere, but leaving America for any of the other crazy things is more what I meant. Hopefully I'm just pessimistic, but things are going to get a lot worse before they get better.

Do you have any rational behind that or just speculation? And where exactly should Americans be going that is better than staying here?

I hope I'm wrong, but when the USD is no longer the world standard it will have almost no value. The resulting collapse will be a tough one for any country, but especially so for a country that already has such bad economic issues. I'm not sure where else to go, but I would at least stay out of the major cities just in case.

Unfortunately, for Americans, it can be prohibitively expensive to leave the country for good.

I've never looked into that at all, I just know people do it. Not sure of the difficulty level.

Well not only is it expensive to move overseas, but they just quadrupled the cost of renouncing US citizenship to about 2k dollars.

That's awfully assumptive

Quit your fear mongering. Ain't shit going to happen anytime soon. Not on out soil.

I'll just post this again:

In early May of 2006, the president of the United States, George W Bush, the commander in chief of the United States Military, stated that 2001 was the beginning of World War III. His remarks were confirmed by Dan Gillerman, at the time Israel's UN Ambassador, when he also acknowledged during a routine UN Security Council meeting on 30 May 2006 that World War III had already begun. Many consider these two statements from two of the main nuclear powers in the world to be the declaration of War, indicating that World War III has already started.

Also:

“But even with the help of the Israelis - especially with the help of the Israelis! - we couldn't defeat the Iranians, the 'Arabs', the world of Islam or the whole Third World if it should turn against us. We [the CIA] have reason to believe that Soviet strategists well understand this, and that the Third World War that they envision will be one of ourselves against shapeless forces of the Third World, with Soviet Russia ostensibly aloof from it...The U.S Government was sinking into exactly the dilemma that best suited the purposes of Moscow's Leninists as they've begun to blossom under Gorbachev. In materials easily available to the U.S government without recourse to espionage, they had made it clear enough that in their version of the Third World War the United States would be forced into a variety of situations in which it would feel compelled to play the role of a powerful nation but, for all the world to see on it television sets, it would in fact, be powerless." The Game Player: Confessions of the CIA's Original Political Operative, London: Aurum Press, 1989

that bottom quote is incredible and fucking scary. this stuff must have been written in to the history books a long time ago..

Yes America is in its death throes unfortunately. Private prisons, the NSA militarized police...

And the disappearance of the traditional family that the right often sings about is even a factor. When people have family, procreate and raise the results of procreation, they have tethers - reasons to use caution. With growing individualism and a disappearing family concept, a lot of what holds people to restraint will disappear in 20 years.

No, you're not the only one. This is the truth.

He looks really, really sick and tired of the war mongering. Haha. Genuinely about the same as Obama

Putin is another puppet just like Obama. Neither of these men make any real or meaningful decisions regarding our social policies or military action. The illusion is being painted that there is this tension between our countries that will inevitably lead to war, when in truth all these stories coming out in the media are an attempt to lead us into war for war's sake alone.

No citizen stands to gain anything from warfare, and nobody in the ruling class stand to lose anything from pushing their citizens into war.

i think you're only 50% right on this , because i doubt Putin is as much as a puppet. while he may not have as much control as he thinks he certainly wields a great deal of power.

i doubt Putin is as much as a puppet

Only in the sense, I think, that Putin was an actual employee of the organization pulling the strings in Russia, while Obama was not.

This is how I see it as well - it's just more theater. The US and Russia have been in bed together since at least the end of WWII.

It's a long campaign of mental conditioning we're experiencing in the news. The entire point is so that once they start up WW3 most people will already be expecting it, and will see a rational explanation for it.

Without this conditioning, NOBODY would be in favor of a large scale war, all that entails is massive death and destruction, only a psychopath or evil cabal could ever be in favor of that.

Exactly. It's all about creating the illusion of division/duality. If you control both sides of a conflict you control the outcome of the conflict.

There are only two groups of people on the planet as I see it: the enslavers and the enslaved, everything else is just theater to keep us all from realizing that relatively simple fact.

Spot on.

If everyone understood this simple concept we could put an end to it....

I think that we're moving closer to this, but the cabal that runs the world would probably rather see humanity destroyed than lose control of it.

I think that we're moving closer to this, but the cabal that runs the world would probably rather see humanity destroyed than lose control of it.

"1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature."

I agree, but it's important to remember they need to keep support of the people while doing it. They need to instigate war, but appear to be the Good Guys while doing it. It's an interesting limitation that leans heavily on their media dominance... which is dwindling...

Interesting times.

The real "real" end-goal of Russia is not even regime change in Kiev: it is regime change on the planet. There is no doubt in my mind whatsoever that both Russia and China want to create a New World Order, but one very different one from the one envisioned by Bush, Fukushima, Obama and the rest of the AngloZionist 1%ers. Russia and China want a complete deconstruction of the AngloZionist Empire, they want to de-dollarize the world economy, the want an multi-polar international world order in which the rule of law is respected because it is understood that it is the most advantageous way to deal with problems. Russia see its future in her North and in Siberia, China wants its economy to go global, including the Far-East Asia and the Pacific region, Africa and Latin America. Russia also wants to role of Latin America and Central Asia to become more important because without these continents and regions there can be no truly multi-polar world. I would also argue that both Russia and China are rejecting the western civilizational model and it's key dogmas (I won't list them here lest I offend or infuriate new readers, but my longtime readers know exactly what I mean) and that they are both seeking to create not only a different world order but a different civilization. All this is much, much bigger than the Donbass or even the entire Ukraine. Yes, at this moment in time, the frontline of the global civilizational war is going straight across the Ukraine, but this is only one battle in a much bigger and wider war.

http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com

[deleted]

I missed that and read it as Fukuyama, as in Francis Fukuyama

Perhaps that is what was meant? It fits in the context.

Putin's probably in on it.

I believe he is as well. Or, at least, I haven't seen nearly enough to convince me that he definitely isn't.

Agreed.

I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head..

Anyway you slice it, your average American is gonna feel the burn of the shit coming down the pike..

the US was forced into every world war by coercion by those with the media and the money, the next war will be no different.

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiratard] Am i the only one that thinks they are trying to force putin into WWIII?

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to understand this situation you need to understand what war technology each side really has, not what they publicly parade. the US has the starwars project satellite which can theoretically shoot down I.C.B.M.'s so the warmongers like john mccain are probably told that even if Russia defends itself with nukes, we can knock out their missiles. what they dont tell them is that the fallout will still kill us all, and obviously this doesn't protect against whatever mini nukes russia likely has inside the US if any or submarines

they dont actually want a nuclear war, the american politicians. they want putin to be assassinated. but if they fail, we know what will happen.

mlk needs blood.

the dollar won't lose all worth, it will just fall back to its real value which is nowhere near where it is right now thanks to its ties to oil and global reserve status

right, and its real value is absolutely nothing at all.. except maybe for toilet paper

nope..but i am buying USD/CHF !

this great video breaks down well how the west wants war to secure oil. it exposes a leaked document called, "The Crocodile Initiative"

Let's keep in mind the same idiots who 9 months said they would impeach Obama if he did anything in Syria are now complaining that Obama won't do anything in Syria.

It's all politics. There is fuckwads saying we need Putin running America for a couple days! Like we SHOULD have a dictator.

Ignore all the rabble.

The only thing is no one is doing anything about Russia or shows they care. Obama hasn't said anything about goin to war with Putin he just wants to keep droning isis

It's all professional wrestling.

Perhaps, but people do actually get seriously hurt doing that!

Putin banned protest in his nation along with anonymous access to the internet.

So he is not a good guy who is the victim of other governments.

That doesn't really answer the question and there really never any good guys in the government of any nation.

Free speech zones, persecution of whistleblowers, that's Obama's war on free speech.

The NSA has the ability to watch where you go and whom you talk to. So there goes your anonymity on the internet.

So who's the bad person in your statement? At least Putin doesn't hide or lie to his people about what he's doing. In fact, I think he has a higher approval rating than Obama with his own people.

Governments have Continuinity Plan:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuity_of_government

Do you?

Maybe Russia and the USA are being tricked into fighting each other, a la the Call of Duty modern warfare trilogy.

The Russians are prob in on it.. I have no reason to believe that the same familys oligarchs and plutocrates who owns the most of the US, EU etc shouldn't allready have infiltrated Russia.. In fact several years ago.

I still believe this is a war being played between the 1% and the rest of us. But its being wrapped into fearmongering and old left over tactics/propaganda from the cold war period. Them Rich bastards have their own agenda and double standards.

My point is that there is something very fishy about this whole US/Russia/EU/Middle East thing..

Ever heard of Kansas City Shuffle..?

I believe that you're right on the money with this. Look into Paperclip and the mass smuggling of Nazis and their tech to both the US and to Russia after WWII. It's all just theater - the thing to keep in mind is that globalists have no allegiance to any country or ideology other than themselves. They are the proverbial "chameleons" and very little is as it seems (especially on the geopolitics scale).

Actually this piece of information made a lot of sense, when I saw it a couple of years ago.. How the World really works

Fast forward to 36:26

http://youtu.be/vQR2z4YCzDw

I can recommend his book: "Crossing the Rubicon." Its pretty easy to find in PDF

I always knew Putin was standing up for the right thing. Just remember this, he protected Edward Snowden!

He denied the US access to Snowden, because Snowden was damaging them. That's not really the same thing as protection.

Why? Wasn't it Putin granted Ed asylum?

Force Putin !! That's an oxymoron !!!

Anyway, besides petrodollar, America's military hegemony, and probably two of the most important factors: China and BIS (Bank of International Settlements).

While China willingly continues playing the game, and the "puppeteers" over BIS dictating global financial policies, the risk of a full-blown WWIII is practically nil.

BTW: The term BRIC was coined by Goldman Sachs !!

This is exactly what they are trying to do, the time has come, WW3 is planned and is here to reshape the world, after the suffering and destruction it will be a lot easier to rewrite laws and place the United Nations in charge of this planet as a global dictatorship.

The UN would be dead too. No one would survive a nuclear WWIII.

here is what im seeing from all the crap going on in the world.

tests after tests after tests. seeing what gets the most public approval, what they can get away with and what people will and will not fall for.

they have probably a huge books of ways to do WWIII. but all the top rich elite most likely need to agree on how they want it to go down.

time is obviously not an issue to them since look at how long of a play from WWI to now has all the crooked underhanded back door moves played out.

its really just waiting game for them to figure out what method will yield the best results for their ideal setup and then setting that plan into motion.

so until then they aim at gaining more and more control in other aspects of the world so that regardless of the outcome they will still be on top.

You should read a book sometime and learn how the petrodollar is complete bullshit.

Also no one is forcing Russia to annex Crimea and sends troops to eastern Ukraine.

how the petrodollar is complete bullshit

How about you explain it to us in this fine conspiracy forum ;)

you're right, nobody forced russia to do that... because they didn't.. you watch way too much CNN to be on this sub

They didnt annex crimea and the countless reports of Russian forces fighting with Rebels and captured russians in ukrainian territory are false because you think so? Im sure if I try arguing with you you'd just go "nope, MSM propaganda, it cant report anything true, im always right, you're wrong".

Go read a book and try to stay away from RT.

Ill watch RT over CNN any day of the week. the 10 russian soldiers on an umarked border is nothing compared to ukranian troops who accidentally go into russia all the time, and are sometimes even allowed to camp there. Kiev has been trying to blame russia the whole time and they are just shining that meaningless story of those 10 russians to try and add credibility to their lies.

What about reports of Russians fighting with rebels? Russian tanks in Ukraine?

Are you cherrypicking or do you really not know of these things? If the ladder that shows enough about your knowledge of the situation.

Also you'd rather trust RUSSIAN STATE MEDIA over CNN?

Im not really surprised you are on Russias fan wagon

None of those have been confirmed by anyone and are all claims from kiev. You are trusting an illegal governments word and mocking who's word I take..

RT is privately owned by putin long before he came into power, its not exactly the same as state media. I have heard people on RT say some pretty nasty stuff about putin and I will be honest Im surprised they kept their jobs.

Much unlike CNN or an US news station.. you say anything less that absolute praise of the jews and you are fired and blacklisted.

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Why have they not done so already? According to this narrative, Russia has already "invaded" Crimea. Why have they not invaded East Ukraine yet?

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they need russia more than russia needs them, all russia has to do is flick a switch an no oil to europe and with winter coming thats gonna suck... so sanctions being an excuse is a joke

Winter is coming!

America and Europe are involved but aren't the instigators

you can't possibly believe this.

That doesn't really answer the question and there really never any good guys in the government of any nation.

I will if you'll look into the history of the Baltic's under Soviet rule. Maybe then will both come out of this a bit smarter.

I had always thought that was the U.S.A., but could it be possible that it's another country? The first that comes to my mind is Israel. If Israel is truly as entrenched in U.S. politics as it seems, they would be the most likely to be benefiting from our technological progress.

I honestly can't see any current country exceeding that power. Japan, or Russia, maybe? In double secret probation? No other country really has the ability to have such technology...

Winter is coming!

Free speech zones, persecution of whistleblowers, that's Obama's war on free speech.

The NSA has the ability to watch where you go and whom you talk to. So there goes your anonymity on the internet.

So who's the bad person in your statement? At least Putin doesn't hide or lie to his people about what he's doing. In fact, I think he has a higher approval rating than Obama with his own people.

Yea that's what I'm saying, if nukes start being used most all areas but the most remote will be destroyed. I doubt leaving America for anything short of Antarctica or a small island nation in the middle of the ocean would do any good

This is almost certainly the case. It can be traced back to Paperclip after the war and the mass smuggling of both Nazis and their black technology to the US and to Russia.