From the start I felt something... odd about that fad. Yes there is the symbolism of the baptism. The added element of the pain, the ice. The fact this 'viral' thing was becoming huge, with big celebrities enacting it as if under actual coercion, not just because some friend 'challenged' them. Then the guys at No Agenda came with a deeper analysis linking it to early religious rituals of penance via physical suffering and later explaining it as kind of a 'moral license', relieving one's guilt over not helping others or society at large via meaningless gestures that gave one allowance to continue committing 'sins'.

Then... the ISIS snuff video. I saw the weird contrasts. The media exposing 'them' as barbarous savages, committing the worst atrocities, meanwhile here 'we' are, selflessly enduring a minor sacrifice, helping others, giving and being good.

This is the most insightful analysis I have read on this whole ice bucket fiasco. I say you're absolutely spot on.

Everybody in the brainwashed masses, unfortunately, will view what you are saying as coming from crazy town because it calls out the hypocrisy in this ritual which makes them feel bad, defeating the purpose of the ritual.

"I donated money and SUFFERED, how dare you take away my feel good"

Okay, I'll bite. Can we get a look at the links?

FYI, before it's news posts a lot of bullshit 90% of there articles are crap. This article could have some truth in it but the majority of that site is shit. Not saying this article is but be very wary of what's on there, almost every time it's shit.

Could something be considered a valid ritual if the participant is unknowing of it?

I don't see why not...

If you scratch an itch on your chest and nose, accidentally forming the Christian cross, does that put you in good favor with the Christian god?

No, but to an unsuspecting observer...yes? Many rituals are held without full aknowledgement and/or awareness.

Such as?

Why are you asking such a profoundly ignorant question as if you know absolutely nothing about Christianity or the bible?

Knowingly or unknowingly moving your body in a certain way absolutely does not do anything towards your standing with God.

It is clearly stated "through faith you are saved by grace, it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

Knowingly or unknowingly moving your body in a certain way absolutely does not do anything towards your standing with God.

That's precisely my point.

So then why don't you say so outright?

Who are you to speak so cryptically, Jesus? I think not.

What matter of man are you Rockran? Why were you leading /u/ignignot765 into saying something which you could purposely misconstrue into "So what you're saying is the ALS foundation is the devil."?

If I am falsely accusing here, by all means correct me, but I do believe it is made more than obvious from your entire exchange starting here, that you are leading him to say something which you can misconstrue to be something else in an attempt to further sideline and marginalize them.

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So then why don't you say so outright?

I consider satanic rituals to be self-evidently bullshit. But I still want to hear what other people have to say about it.

So rather than just saying it's all bull and being done with it, I wanted to hear what rationale is behind the OP.

What do you mean by you think it's all bull?

Do you not think that people legitimately engage in satanic rituals?

Do you think that it's all just a joke that certain people use to fool other people with?

Be more specific please.

There's no such thing as magic

There are people who dress up all weird and play-make believe for a bit of fun and to be rebellious.

There are also those that seriously believe they can commune with the devil.

Neither are doing anything other than being a bit silly.

There's no such thing as magic

Who ever said there was?

Furthermore, were there beings that are able to act above the laws of this universe, would they not be able to interact with the beings within the universe, and also manipulate the universe if granted that ability?

I take it that you're a complete naturalist, and that any idea that there is anything more than just the physical plane is "just silly".

The correct answer is absolutely.

If I say "thank god" as most do as a colloquial expression, am I actually thanking god? Will god look well upon me for this unintended praise?

IDK cause I'm not you or God, but enacting rituals is all about the will of the enactor. A person unaware could completely be entangled by that.

If it's all about the will of the enactor, then an unaware person couldn't by your definition, perform an unintended ritual.

Think of how many human sacrifices have taken place, I'm certain many of them were unaware of the actual meaning of their sacrifice and simply just confused and terrified of their captors. But they clearly were victims of the ritual, and that clearly does not hinder the efficacy of the ritual. I would even argue that it empowers it, as now the actions taken by the person (e.g dumping ice water on head) are not consciously understood but they are told it's for something that is completely illogical. How does dumping ice-water on your head actually help anyone? Yes, one can argue that it's a means to gain awareness to the condition. But generally, I would believe that the means to do this would be more or less relevant to ALS itself and in this case it's completely irrelevant so if it were a ritual ALS would be the 'Patsy' so to speak and those who accept it and practice the ritual on themselves are the victims, whether they want to believe it or not.

Then the enactor is the person performing the sacrifice.

The people doing the ice challenge are they themselves the enactor.

A voodoo man sacrificing some babe is the enactor, the babe is not.

How does dumping ice-water on your head actually help anyone?

It doesn't. It's just a game. You could make a video and spread awareness without icing yourself.

I think you are confusing the notion of ritual. The enactor isn't the only component, in fact the sacrifice would be the victims themselves (dumping the ice water). "How does dumping ice-water on your head actually help anyone?" - This was rhetorical.

in fact the sacrifice would be the victims themselves (dumping the ice water)

Then who is the enactor?

Whoever designed the ritual and enforced it's initiation.

So what you're saying is the ALS foundation is the devil.

No, I'm explaining the philosophy and mechanism's behind ritual by utilizing historical parallels as a blueprint for the underlying structure of almost any act. I'm simply saying that IF this were true, this is how it WOULD work. BTW if it were a high level ritual, you can be assured the ALS Foundation would most likely be a pawn in itself. I remain impartial to the accusation, I only want to point out the relevancy IF it happened to be true.

I don't know what /u/rockran is other than not to be trusted.

Remember this convo chain, it's a perfect example of how a shill would try to marginalize you.

See how his replies are constantly trying to lead you to a predetermined conclusion that is meant to discredit you?

Look where he led to in the end "you are saying the als foundation is the devil".

You absolutely said no such thing, but /u/rockran wants it to seem like you are.

Classic skullduggery.

I'm probably confused, but in your initial question you used the word "participant." What I'm failing to say well is a person can be a participant in a ritual without being aware.

That's what I was trying to explain.

Alright well uh...

Just... No.

Wow, just wow, that in this day and age this Satan-crap is still believed. Even back in the days when thy did do rituals, it was more to piss off the god-lovers rather than actually asking Satan for anything. Hence the satirical butt-kissing of the devil, the drinking and the nudity.

Seriously, as long as people believe in an actual god or a Satan, they are like gullible, medieval peasants; and that is a scary thought in the 21st Century... Grow up. Those that manipulate you have no horns, nor tails but are wearing suits and talk smooth talk.

The ALS fad is just like planking, but with added charity. Nothing else.

If you believe 100% that there is no God, you're just as gullible as any person tricked into envisioning Satan as a tailed pitch fork wielding horned beast.

Nobody has proved there is no God, and we can't even prove if this entire universe is anything but a computer simulation.

Satan isn't children posting videos dumping ice water on their heads. Satan is greed and manipulation, hypocrisy and the corruption in using religion as a weapon. Satan is the greed behind the ALS foundation taking most of the money that is donated and not using it as the donors intended. An anthropomorphism of the dark within the hearts of man and the world. There is no power in the physical act of a ritual, evil is in the intent. Rituals are superstition, it's the desire for power beyond what you could responsibly use that is the true evil. The hubris of thinking that you would be a better god.

Alright well uh...

This is the most insightful analysis I have read on this whole ice bucket fiasco. I say you're absolutely spot on.

Everybody in the brainwashed masses, unfortunately, will view what you are saying as coming from crazy town because it calls out the hypocrisy in this ritual which makes them feel bad, defeating the purpose of the ritual.

"I donated money and SUFFERED, how dare you take away my feel good"