A crazy religious based theory about TPTB.
27 2014-09-10 by downtherabbit
So about a year ago, a user posted onto /r/conspiracy about TPTB. One thing that he said that stuck out to me was that there are basically 13 board members that head TPTB and that one of these was a person who has been alive for century's.
That little tidbit has always stuck with me as a bit weird.
Then at the start of this year I got a hold of a book titled "Gnosis of the Cosmic Christ: A Gnostic Christian Kabbalah" which is written by Tau Malachi. In a part of the book it outlines the story of Jesus and Lazarus, how Jesus brought Lazarus back from the dead. The book puts forth the idea that Lazarus, along with Mary Magdalene, were the only people who Jesus imparted his most sacred knowledge. The book goes on to call Lazarus the "Secret Saint" and states that one theory on him is that he "remains living upon the earth until the time of the second coming".
After reading the book, I couldn't help connect with what it says about Lazarus with the Muslim theory of end-time, Masih Ad-Dajjal.
The Dajjal is basically the Anti-Christ from revelations. The theory basically goes like this, you will know the coming of the Dajjal when these things are fulfilled.
-People will stop offering the prayers
-Dishonesty will be the way of life
-Falsehood will become a virtue
-People will mortgage their faith for worldly gain
-Usury and bribery will become legitimate
-There will be acute famine at the time
-There will be no shame amongst people
-Many people would worship Satan
-There would be no respect for elderly people
The theory states that these will need to be fulfilled for the coming of the Anti-Christ. The theory also states that the Dajjal will appear somewhere between Iran and Syria (Iraq) with 70,000 Jews to fight alongside him against Jesus and Imam Mahdi. The theory also states that one half of believers (Muslims) will come forth with black flags of Makkah (which is the flag ISIS uses) and the other half will wield white flags (surrender?). Some versions of the theory also state that some Muslims will be fighting on the wrong side (ISIS again) while the others will be fighting along side Muhammad Al-Mahdi.
The theory states that before the coming of the Mahdi, the Sufyani will come and attack Iraq under black banners. And that before the end-times finished Baghdad will be burnt to ash and everybody will see red in the sky (an atomic bomb?).
Mahdi is the reason I connected the Islamic end-times prophecy to what I've read in the Kaballah book I picked up because of recurring theme, resurrection. Some sects of Islam say that the Mahdi, has been living for centuries and hiding behind the scenes controlling political matters, they call him the "Secret Imam".
I guess my point is, it seems as if what is happening in the middle-east seems to be an effort by TPTB to fulfill a prophecy, whether or not the prophecy is true and Lazarus has been running around earth these past 2000 years influencing politics it just seems so weird to me that they prophecy is being fulfilled.
Does anybody have anything to add, any knowledge about revelations/the dajjal that might be applicable to what is happening now In the middle-east.
I don't really believe in the Occultation or that Jesus is coming back in the flesh, but why do TPTB seem to want to fulfill the prophecy?
71 comments
8 strokethekitty 2014-09-10
This is very interesting imo.Not to stray off topic, but it intrigues me as the ancient sumerian texts describe the lifepsan of the annunaki to be in the thousands of years rather than the human lifespan of roughly 80 (on average, give or take).
I have always subscribed to the idea that all of the major religions (particularily the abrahamic religions) essentially say the same thing. And, as it turns out, the ancient sumerian texts serve as a logical precursor to such ideologies. So, i cant help but to speculate whether or not the "secret imam", lazarus, and this "Mahdi", and the annunaki might be one and the same, just described from different perspectives.
How do you feel about this, OP?
1 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
I am a little familiar with the Sumerian/Annunaki story and how it mirrors what is written in Genesis/The book of Enoch.
And yes I believe all major religions are just describing the same historical experience, just interpreted by different cultures.
0 --_-_-_-_-_-_-_-- 2014-09-10
When you look at ME religions from a "Western" perspective you see separate cultures and traditions. However if you study the timeline and changes in each religion you can clearly see an "evolution" of ideas.
One example:
Ancient Jewish prayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNxLF0ILFgw&list=PL0EFE6E3CB380F280
Ancient Christian prayer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRLFeldPG3Y
7 TwoDollarDrink 2014-09-10
Very interesting stuff. Have you looked into the 4 blood moons that correspond with significant Jewish holy days? And the Bible prophesy about the moon turning red during the end times?
3 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
No I haven't but there has been a high number of red moons recently compared to the average.
I always found it interesting that the moon is locked in phase with the Earth and we only ever see the one face of it and we haven't observed the same thing anywhere else in the universe. Same thing being that the earth rotates but the moon does not. Other examples of tidal locking have been observed throughout the universe but those cases have both bodies locked in such a way that a line can be defined between the two bodies that never moves, not the case with Earth and our Moon.
EDIT: Not to mention the Apollo mission transcripts where the Astronauts clearly state that they can hear a weird sound coming from the dark side of the moon even though sound doesn't travel through a vacuum, then the fact that one of those astronauts promptly converted to Islam once returning to Earth. I make the Islam connection because there is a Hadith about Mohammed where the moon appeared to split into two and then there's always that line on the moon that makes it looks as if at one point the moon was split into two.
2 TwoDollarDrink 2014-09-10
I like how your mind works. I would love to have coffee with you and continue this talk. How close are you to Dallas, TX? :-)
Seriously though, you've given me the right kind of pause. I'll look into that. I just got home from work and I've been listening to a compilation of Bill Cooper's 9/11 predictions on YouTube. As I was asking God about ISIS, a giant bird flew right on front of my car while I was traveling on the highway. There is a lot of synchronicity—and crazy stories about birds giving me "signs" in the two years I've been awake—so my "Spidey Sense" is now officially activated. I believe ISIS will be the boogeyman that they blame their next false flag on. I hope it isn't tomorrow.
1 no1113 2014-09-10
Very relevant.
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4 materhern 2014-09-10
They aren't really fulfilling prophecy. If you look at what is prophesied, what is it? It is things the religious have always feared or opposed, and things that follow a corrupt government. Governments ALWAYS end up corrupted. Always.
The fact is that this "prophecy" has been "fulfilled" a dozen or more times in every culture since the beginning of human society. This is documenting the fall of modern society which would give rise to the next great society.
That someone said it would happen when it has been witnessed many times before is not prophetic but and understanding internally of societies cycle of existence.
2 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
I agree that the prophecy outlined in Revelations is pretty analogous and can be applied to just about every oppressive regime that has existed.
For example, the number of the beast, 666 is widely accepted to be referring to Nero Caesar who was an oppressive dictator that crucified Gnostics for their belief in the Demiurge.
But the Islamic prophecy is so much more defined than that of revelations and I feel as though what has happened since the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire fits the Dajjal prophecy more so than any other time in human history.
Hopefully its all just bullshit but it does seem as though there are people in the world that seem to want to fulfill this prophecy. The thing that always strikes me as weird is that TPTB are heavily influenced by Gnostic doctrine and its like, if the people who run the show all believe in esoteric teachings, then maybe there is something to it.
4 Ali_san 2014-09-10
Muslim here. Maybe I can teach you a few things from my limited knowledge.
Khawarij There is a group called "Khawarij" who were described by our prophet (pbuh) as extreme in pretty much any category. I can't quote the transmission right now but he mentioned people, who would pray so much, your prayer would seem insignificant, who would fast so often, your fasting would seem insignificant but they read the Qur'an and it won't pass their throat (i. e. they recite but don't understand, don't act according to it) and they kill the muslims and leave alone their enemies (today it would be the Zionist state of Israel for example). If our prophet (pbuh) were alive today, he would fight against them (that's his words). All these criteria fits ISIS strategy and behavior. That's why most of our scholars warn us about them.
Ad-Dajjal Massih Ad-Dajjal (the false Messiah) will first claim to be Jesus (pbuh) and later, after he shows some of his miracles, he will claim to be god himself and will have many followers. At that time, the Mahdi is already here with the united muslims (different story). He can't kill Ad-Dajjal so after 40 days of Dajjals ruling on earth, the true Messiah, Jesus son of Mary (pbuh), will return and kill him. It's just a rough summ-up.
Prophecy Some you listed are new to me and I don't know if all of them are true. I'll just list a few that will happen or already happened:
-Time will pass faster (felt by humans)
-Someone who walks-by a grave, will wish to be in it's place (increased suicide/depression)
-Fornication on the streets by some
-A great war. One army from the east, one from the west and one muslim army
-That war will cause even birds to fall from the sky (don't remember all of it)
-Someone who speaks the truth will be called a liar, someone who lies will be trusted
There are many more. I just listed a few.
And
That's a shia-sect who says that. Their picture of Mahdi is just weird and doesn't make sense at all. In fact, if you look deeper into it, you would just have a good laugh and WTF moments.
2 [deleted] 2014-09-10
[deleted]
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
Whos to say that isn't exactly what the prophecies are predicting?
2 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
Exactly, it is as if either:
A) The prophecy is true and unfolding.
or
B) TPTB are trying to fulfill this prophecy for some nefarious purpose.
Either way it cannot be good for the ordinary person.
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
No I'm sayin that this is the prophecy! Ya dig?
Its the most cliche of all cliche prophecy storylines. Something only happens because it was prophesied...
2 consmurph 2014-09-10
Seems like the account of the post you linked too is deleted, that's a shame. I wanted to read it, is there any way to view deleted comments? Like an archive or something?
1 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
The shit he was saying was very original and brought to light ideas that aren't usually discussed.
This and this have a similar feel to what the guy was saying. Although many ideas brought up are literally crazy.
2 consmurph 2014-09-10
Damn, that took my mind for a spin. I always look at these inter-dimensional posts skeptically, but considering how much I've learned about how the world works recently, at this point it wouldn't even surprise me. Really interesting read.
1 no1113 2014-09-10
Some specific details might be difficult for some (many) to grasp - true - but the ultimate and final point of the information itself - that this life is nothing to attach oneself to, that there is a Universal Existence that everything is one with, and that one would do best in life working toward knowledge of and union with that Source - seems to be a truth readily available and indeed self-evident to anyone with a sufficiently discerning level of critical-thinking ability. The information contained within and as a whole, therefore, is hardly anything to be considered "literally crazy" when understood properly.
...
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2 sinominous 2014-09-10
one man's crazy is another man's deep research
2 [deleted] 2014-09-10
Whether you believe in infinite awareness, a diety, or the man behind the curtain (impersonator), it doesn't matter here;
Every mainstream religion is effectively worshipping what can be described as Satan. Consider the amount of people worldwide worshipping Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism. They are all effectively the same religion.
They basically reused and twisted a whole bunch of gnostic texts to turn it into their own making. You'll find that gnostic followers were hunted and demonized by all the main religions because the writings were much older than the "established" religions (Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam, and Hinduism.), yet contained many closely linked stories. Like the virgin mother. Gnostic texts basically exposed the major religions for what they are. Frauds.
If there's a satanic cult out there today... the followers are oblivious to it and think they are praying to the messiah, the whole act of Satanism is about inversion. What more power could you get from worshippers thinking they are praying to the "opposite".
So anyone waiting for the "apocalypse" because it doesn't appear that Satanism is a very huge thing... it's all around you.
3 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
I would agree with you.
I feel as though every single religion has been infiltrated and the doctrine has been changed to fit into a system of control.
The fact that Gnostic doctrine was almost wiped out due to the early church and ever since the ideas that Gnosticism puts forth have been suppressed from the mainstream ever since has always made me feel as though there is actually something to Gnosticism. If it weren't for the discovery of the Nag Hammandi Index we would no just about nothing about the early Christians and what they actually believed. And the discovery itself is weird. The scrolls were found buried alongside a corpse, one theory is that two people buried the scrolls together then one killed the other and buried them alongside the scrolls to make sure nobody else knew where they were buried.
2 Ambiguously_Ironic 2014-09-10
I think the idea is to trick the masses into believing that the prophecies are being fulfilled.
There are only the enslavers and the enslaved.
2 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
Yeah definitely, keeping everybody in a state of fear is a great way to do things that people would otherwise not allow.
2 charlie75 2014-09-10
Did you know all responses on that link to the AMA have been deleted by the OP? What does that mean?
1 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
I think he said that his friend asked him to take the post down, then promptly disappeared.
1 charlie75 2014-09-10
Oh ok. Thanks. Still good post. Take care.
1 x8N42e2 2014-09-10
I don't know anything about dajjal or lazarus but I dig the original direction you're going in.
As a general reply to your post, The Powers That Are Leaving are DEFINITELY beholden to or intentionally following the king james bible. It appears that the bible IS the script to some degree OR they are mimicking the bible as its either a good script (for whatever their criteria of a good script would be, unknowable to us) or they want to agitate and provoke Christians and also Muslims to a lesser degree as the script advances.
In addition to the bible a huge body of other spiritual & religious knowledge and their texts are represented in a variety of ways (check out "secrets hidden in plain sight", the youtube video[1]) and once you include all these the only word that applies to my understanding is just plain "occult" or "esoteric". Astrology and the zodiac are the foundation to most of the material in religious texts which was brought to public attention with the first Zeitgeist[2] movie.
Very astute observations. I very much like these kinds of connections that rely on some kind of familiarity with culture(s), symbols & a little bit of myth.
I think that if the towers were vaporized in-front of our eyes (pretty obvious to anyone not terrified of the truth) through the use of an engineered and actively directed hurricane as a "static field" of energy combined with "directed energy" of some kind to then disintegrate the metals (in the same fashion as demonstrated by the "hutchinson effect") that fall inside that interference pattern of the two fields then you can be damned sure that someone living on earth that is 2000 years old is at least a possibility if not a probability. Our lack of knowledge, sometimes willful ignorance and active adversaries looking to keep us in the dark should always leave every /r/conspiracy reader knowing that we don't know shit.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L777RhL_Fz4
[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guXirzknYYE
1 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
I've always loved the line that "You don't know what you don't know". And I'm sure there are many things about history, ancient and contemporary that the average person is not privy to.
1 eyeluvscotch 2014-09-10
FYI: http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/second-seal-world-war-3/
1 MonsignorFrollo 2014-09-10
Commenting to look into this later.
BUT: Have you ever asked yourself why Henry Kissinger is still alive?
1 qmechan 2014-09-10
He's like the Highlander.
1 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
Great diet and great healthcare.
Although there are conspiracy theory's that eating monoatomic gold and drinking the blood of virgins and children prolongs ones life (David Icke type shit), although I don't prescribe to those theory's.
I do believe there is something to Amagdalyn/Vitamin B17 though, simply because of the fact that its medical viability has been suppressed by lack of testing and genetically modifying it out of almonds. Not to mention the people who have been arrested for promoting the idea that it cures cancer, if I started a campaign tomorrow that claimed that eating red herring cured cancer, nobody would give two shits, but if I started one that claimed eating small doses of bitter almonds alongside with having a non-acidic diet I would be arrested. And then there's the fact that in many places the sale of bitter almonds is illegal. And there are cases of tribes in south america who incorporate the compound into their diet have a zero rate of cancer.
1 Urbanjamjar 2014-09-10
What are the supposed benefits of eating bitter almonds with a none-acidic diet? I've heard a little about the benefits of a none acidic diet, would it be essential to follow if eating these bitter almonds? Done a couple of googles and any mainstream information is quiet against the use of it and pushes it's toxicity as a negative point and disregards any cancer killing potential outright. But if what you say is right then it would certainly benefit tptb to do so. Do you have any links where I could learn more?
1 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
You have to eat the bitter almonds with non-acidic foods and specific enzymes, papaya(sp?) is great to eat alongside bitter almonds as an example. Otherwise yes you can get sick. Also, I think you are only meant to eat one or two a day. If your blood is too acidic the Amagdylin would get broken down before if gets to the free radical sites and are less effective and can make you sick.
Bitter almonds have a tail that is essentially cyanide. but not totally. The theory I have been told is that when the amagdylin comes into contact with a specific enzyme that is only produced by free radicals they interact and create cyanide, which kills the cancer cell at the site.
There is a great book on the subject called "B17 METABOLIC THERAPY" compiled by Phillip day which gives an outline on a diet that can help.
I am by no means saying that vitamin B17 is a cure, only a preventative measure and can help cancer patients have peace of mind ô¿ô. Please don't arrest me. There is no substitute for chemotherapy, if you have cancer please go get chemotherapy and radiation therapy do not believe in alternative measures ô¿ô. Please don't arrest me.
EDIT: I am no doctor and cannot give people medical advice, if you are really interested, get the book. It was compiled by a group of doctors, goes through everything scientifically and has many examples of case studies in it.
1 Urbanjamjar 2014-09-10
Ha thanks for that little disclaimer there, no I don't have cancer, i'm just interested in the topic.
2 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
This fact sheet done by the Australian Government admits that it has been shown to help, although it tries its hardest not to.
Apparently the problem is that, because the compound cannot be patented, it has been suppressed.
1 PaulMartin2992 2014-09-10
Very interesting indeed. I am not an Atheist. I do believe in a higher power. That being said, I don't buy into a single bit of organized religion. All it is, and all it has been, is a means to control all of us. And for centuries it has worked. My believing in a higher power has nothing to do with religion, it has to do with spirituality which in my opinion, is way different. I know "churchies", and in their eyes, I may as well be an Atheist since I don't prescribe to the bullshit that churches ram down our throats day after day.
Point is: believe what they believe or be cast out. That to me, is one of the best pieces of evidence that they know what they preaching is bullshit. After all, if someone believes in a higher power shouldn't that be more reason to support them and not cast them aside?
None of this seems very far fetched to me, especially given the circumstances in the world now. As to what will happen? Its anyones guess. But I firmly believe we will see the "apocalypse" in our life time (I am 32). It just seems, and feels, like things are sliding into place far too easily and seamlessly for something big not to take place relatively soon.
-edit- Spelling.
1 littlegymm 2014-09-10
Check out the story behind Bush and his notions of the prophecy of Gog and Magog. You could possibly be on to something. Most likely no, but TPTB are probably all about using the world as a playground battlefield, with us as the toy soldiers.
0 [deleted] 2014-09-10
Hail Lucifer
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-9 thc1967 2014-09-10
Religion is bullshit. Fantasy. Myth. All of them. Not just Greek and Roman and Norse and Celtic. All of them.
Nobody with a functioning brain pays any attention to them beyond their value as interesting fictional tales. This necessarily includes TPTB. They're smart.
The sooner we all realize this, the sooner we can shake off the oldest, most thorough, most onerous control mechanism TPTB have over us.
Please downvote without comment if your parents indoctrinated you to be completely, totally under control and you like it that way. But really you should comment and celebrate your hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance - trolling a forum of free-thinkers when your thoughts are more controlled than just about anyone else's. For shame.
3 sinominous 2014-09-10
tbtb do not believe a word of it they are just driving it as a vehicle, a trojan for their nwo plans. when you can get ~5billion muslims christians and jews to play your game just by arranging some events just so...
2 nisaaru 2014-09-10
But how do you keep secret organizations/network working without some kind of ritual/ideology/mysticism which binds them all through the different layers? They need a shared believe system which glues cunning powerful people(psychopaths, narcissists and more or less "normal" people) together and allows at least the moral impeded people to do things against their nature. Make them all feel special and bind them together in life and crime. Like the MOB only for the upper class.
Just look at the Nazis. The "intellectual" elite of these people used mysticism(occult) to create a corps/group feeling. Skull & Bones seem to be based on similar concepts.
Just think about old rich families and their networks. Must be a really boring life if you can have everything material and everybody you know grew up with the same limitless imprint. What's left? Personal power/games/competition and mysticism.
IMHO that's the root behind the satanic cult evidences which sometimes rise up.
1 sinominous 2014-09-10
they do have a belief system but it is not christianity or islam or even judaism in its normal form
as are the freemasons and kabalists
agreed
2 thecoyote23 2014-09-10
To play devils advocate (hehe) conspiracy theorists come from all corners whether it's conservative, liberal, libertarian or religious. My point is that /r/conspiracy isn't purely populated by atheists. A lot of people buy into the Luciferian Plot. Some people think it's aliens running the show and others believe it's demons.
-1 thc1967 2014-09-10
Even aliens running the show is bullshit. Doesn't stand up to a basic logic test: WHY? What it their purpose?
Anyone who is not an atheist is not a critical / free thinker.
3 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
I was an arrogant atheist like you at one point.
But man, I had what I hate to call but can only describe as a religious experience. I don't think any deity-centric religion has it right, because I don't think anybody out there particularly cares for us in some spiritual species wide sense...but I can't say that for maybe two hours I didn't feel something.
Thats not a logic test. "I don't understand" is not logical proof that something can't exist.
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
Didn't say aliens couldn't exist.
Did say they're not here pulling the strings on anything because it doesn't make sense.
If you think they are... answer the question. What is their goal?
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
It doesn't matter what I think their goal is (if I even think they're pulling the strings at all).
Even if I actually told you the actual reason they're here, you would ask for proof. Who wouldn't?
And if I had that...well...I'd be the most famous fucking person on earth.
I'm certain that ants in a colony aren't aware that their lives are subject to the whims of a human some thousands of times bigger and more intelligent than themselves. Ask an ant why a human maintains a colony and I doubt they could ever provide an answer that other ants would accept.
As for why wouldn't an alien race reveal itselves to humans? Humans are mean. as. shit. As a species. Even Reddit is full of people who are only lookin for reasons to be dicks to other people. We entertain ourselves with competition.
Maybe they just like stomping on the human anthill?
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
It does. It helps establish the plausibility of the theory.
If you had the actual reason, why wouldn't you share it? Are we now dwelling in the realm of the hypothetical? It's pointless to play there.
That was not my question. I understand the answer. Read my earlier responses. My contention is not about their presence, but their activities.
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
Why would they pull the strings?
Humans spend countless hours pulling the strings of simulated realities and enjoy creating destruction and mayhem.
You seem to think that there needs to be some grand greater purpose. Maybe they just like building things up to knock us down.
And yeah. We're pretty obviously dwelling in the realm of the hypothetical.
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
I never said they did need that or were doing that.
Boredom sets in once you achieve immortality?
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
Immortality is not a prerequisite of boredom.
Nor is it prerequisite for enjoyment of empire building.
How many people fantasize about ruling the world at some point or another? I'm on mobile so I can't give lots of examples but I think it's pretty obvious that the worlds most rich and powerful enjoy the lifestyle that comes along with wealth and power...so why not aliens as well?
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
Empire building...
What would that look like when the civilization that wants to build the empire is thousands to hundreds of thousands to millions of years more advanced than the civilization they want to build the empire over?
Let's take a real-world example with a smaller time gap. What happened in North America from the late 1400's to the late 1600's when Europeans, who were maybe 1,000 years more technologically advanced than the Native Americans, decided they wanted North America?
There is no logical rationale for the purpose of aliens being here to do anything nefarious or empire building or whatever. If they're here, it's not to rule us or harm us.
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
Not the same. You're assuming they want what we have for themselves. I'm not so sure. Even if they did, perhaps they've realized that killing 90+% of a population isn't the best way to secure that population's resources (assuming they want our resources). Maybe its easier to let that population do all the digging for you?
I mean, honestly, if they wanted resources, a species with the capability to travel across the stars will certainly have access to the vast reserves of resources on all the dead rocks floating across the universe.
Sure there is?
I used empire building as an example of analogous human recreational activity. I didn't say they were building an empire for themselves. I love the total war games, but I don't derive any immediate benefit from building a virtual empire other than entertainment.
As far as "nefarious" intentions...I don't have any nefarious intentions when I step on an ant hill...but it does entertain me to see their progress as they rebuild. And I can pretty much guarantee you, if I see an impressive anthill while I'm out walking my dog or whatever, I'm gonna step on that shit.
Perhaps I'm wrong assigning human intentions to a hypothetical alien race, but if I am, I think you're equally wrong assuming that an alien race can't share any of the motivations that drive humans.
You seem to be trying to use "logic" to prove that aliens can't be here because they don't need anything from us. I know a lot of alien conspiracies like to think they need us for something or other. I think thats a major flaw you share with alien conspiracy theorists.
Tangent: Suppose the pyramids were built by aliens...why do the need a grand purpose? Humans carve their names into trees every day. Why cant the pyramids just be the "alienz wuz here" of some interstellar race?
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
What natural resources from this planet could a civilization capable of getting here from place many light-years away, potentially thousands, or even another dimension or time, possibly need that they can't get more easily than getting here?
Yes, you do. Harming ants. Worse, your own entertainment in the execution of that.
I'm sort of hoping that a society that would have advanced enough to get from Point A (way across the galaxy or farther) would have evolved out of sociopathic tendencies.
I never said aliens can't be here. I'm not trying to prove that.
I'm saying that if they are here, their purpose is not empire building, controlling, or malicious in any way.
There's enough evidence to support that they were built by humans.
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
No shit. I addressed that in the next sentence. The sentence you quoted was intended to address the theories that they actually are here for our resources. Like, why wouldn't they kill us if they wanted our resources.
I think its a silly theory too...some people don't.
Well if casual entertainment is included in nefarious plots, then I don't see why its unrealistic to think that aliens are here for nefarious reasons.
But to rule it out completely would be illogical!
But you don't have any reason to support that other than you hope an advanced civilization wouldn't do those things. Any one of those reasons could be a means of entertainment.
I agree completely. Many don't though, and they try and say that there are some vast mystic reasons for why aliens would do something like that.
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
Ah, but I do... IT'S NOT HAPPENING!
Our cities are not being randomly obliterated by alien spacecraft.
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
/eyeroll
That doesn't rule out empire building, controlling, or malicious intentions in any way.
It seems like your evidence that things are impossible is because you don't see them happening.
The fact that we didn't nuke the shit out of Iraq sometime in the last 10 years isn't proof that we couldn't.
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
No, but it's proof that we didn't.
I wasn't talking the realm of things that could happen (the hypothetical), but rather things that are or are not happening (reality).
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
Ok. Well the absence of wholesale extraterrestrial destruction of the human civilization does not prove anything other than that aliens are not actively engaged in the wholesale destruction of the human civilization.
It doesn't prove that they aren't here behind the scenes manipulating human society. Or actively controlling the advance of human civilization. Or helping us "build an empire" (read: expand everywhere on earth and build up our cities and shit). It certainly doesn't prove that they aren't malicious in any way.
I never once claimed that they were actively destroying our civilization, so if you were only trying to talk about things that are currently happening, I'm not sure why you would have mentioned that in the first place.
Again - I don't necessarily support any of these theories. This all traces back to you inaccurately claiming that logic rules all of these things out. You have offered no logical reason any of these things could not be happening. Only evidence that you haven't seen them happening with your own eyes.
I have not actively seen government officials getting together to discuss ways to sway public opinion, but I'm certain it is happening. By your logic (it seems), the fact that I haven't actually seen it with my own eyes logically proves that it isn't actually happening.
2 downtherabbit 2014-09-10
That statement is antithetical to the idea of being a critical/free thinker.
1 thecoyote23 2014-09-10
I think that's kind of absolutist. Some people believe ridiculous stuff in some ways but are reasonable in others. I would think reading this sub would be an exercise of frustration for you. People are coming from all kinds of whacky paradigms but it's always fascinating to put yourself in their head for a bit. I look at the most ridiculous far out stuff here as simply being "fun to think about but probably false." The best part is that occasionally something crazy is actually true.
-1 thc1967 2014-09-10
The truth / reality is absolute and neither depends upon nor requires belief. It also doesn't come with cookies or bubble wrap to soften the blow.
It is certainly a combination of enlightenment and WTF, but heavier on the WTF.
There are a whole lot of ideas that aren't even half-baked presented in this sub. When I ask even the most basic "You didn't even start to think through this, did you?" type questions about them, I get downvoted without comment.
I relish those because I know they are the result if underdeveloped brains throwing up their arms in defeat.
1 TVcasualties 2014-09-10
How can you be so sure that you're view is correct? The only thing I know is what I experience and even that is limited by my perception. Everything is possible if you are truly a free thinker.
-2 thc1967 2014-09-10
Evidence.
False. Harry Potter. Darth Vader. Sumerian mythology. It's a long, long list of things that simply aren't.
1 TVcasualties 2014-09-10
Do you believe in the possibility of higher dimensions and physics beyond our current understanding and measurement?
I used to consider myself an athiest but after reading the Law of One I am not sure what I think anymore.
Earth is not the beginning and the end of understanding.
-2 thc1967 2014-09-10
There are certainly physics we don't completely understand yet. That is not evidence for the existence of a deity.
This is true. We understand so much that is far, far beyond the scope of our little blue dust speck.
Whereas the entirety of the religious writings that are most popular today supposedly happened in a tiny little circle on that tiny blue speck of dust orbiting a medium sized star in a fairly large galaxy in a massive galactic supercluster in a universe that is known to be over 92 billion light-years across (source).
1 TVcasualties 2014-09-10
I am not saying it is proof of a deity.
I agree religion has been used to control and manipulate since the beginning. That doesn't mean it couldn't have started as truth and morphed from there.
I personally don't know what's out there and I will entertain any ideas or theories that resonate with me.
Not being open to anything outside of our current scientific understanding is just as closed minded as many born again Christians I know.
1 inkandpaperguy 2014-09-10
I have up voted you because it is a fact that kings and popes have been conspiring against the plebes for an eternity. Religion flies planes into buildings.
1 eyesareitchy 2014-09-10
Whos to say that isn't exactly what the prophecies are predicting?
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
It does. It helps establish the plausibility of the theory.
If you had the actual reason, why wouldn't you share it? Are we now dwelling in the realm of the hypothetical? It's pointless to play there.
That was not my question. I understand the answer. Read my earlier responses. My contention is not about their presence, but their activities.
1 thc1967 2014-09-10
What natural resources from this planet could a civilization capable of getting here from place many light-years away, potentially thousands, or even another dimension or time, possibly need that they can't get more easily than getting here?
Yes, you do. Harming ants. Worse, your own entertainment in the execution of that.
I'm sort of hoping that a society that would have advanced enough to get from Point A (way across the galaxy or farther) would have evolved out of sociopathic tendencies.
I never said aliens can't be here. I'm not trying to prove that.
I'm saying that if they are here, their purpose is not empire building, controlling, or malicious in any way.
There's enough evidence to support that they were built by humans.