"You can prove anything with science" - The Simpsons

Unfortunately, nobody is going to believe alternative opinions about this until they are all bleeding from their asses. Bio-warfare was used against the Indians, but this is suddenly a radical concept that it would be used again? Please. I'll go ahead and hope that I'm delusional, but the way I see it now is all signs point to us being royally fucked.

It's the same attitude about the upcoming conflict with Russia et al. Global war? HAW HAW HAW LOL CONSPIRACY THEORISTS LOL. Cuz we haven't had two previous World Wars built upon dying financial orders and imperialistic conquest. Buncha hooey.

Well, the dumber you are, the more you have to defend yourself because you're wrong more often, so these people have built up an Iron Dome-esque defense system to deflect any and all logic and reason. Trying to educate them is pointless.

You misquoted.

"You can use facts to prove anything even remotely true."

Unfortunately, nobody is going to believe alternative opinions about this until they are all bleeding from their asses

Can we have an award for best line of year up in here?

It takes more than just "contact". You have to come into contact with bodily fluids or excrement and then those fluids would need to be introduced with your own. For example if touched that person without gloves and they were sweaty then you touched your hands to your mouth/nose/eyes.

The reason it is spreading like wildfire in Africa is because people refuse to let doctors do their jobs. Once their loved one gets sick and is being g treated and they notice things are getting bad they rush in and try to take them away so they can die in peace. By doing so they are becoming contaminated as well then the next thing you know everyone's contaminated.

This doesn't explain how the aid workers who are trained to avoid getting infected are contracting the disease.

I have heard numerous reports of "aid workers" being missionaries who have zero medical training and a number of them HAVE NOT Ben taking proper precautions. There was a report of a number of workers not wearing gloves. That's and excellent way to contract and/or spread ebola.

missionaries who have zero medical training

utter bollocks, missionaries get very good medical training from experienced professionals, they have to learn tropical medicine and practices, they go to places where mere mortals would never dare to go.

As do I. Bizzare isn't it?

Doctors from MSF are being infected even in full protective gear.

The reason it is spreading like wildfire in Africa is because people refuse to let doctors do their jobs. Once their loved one gets sick and is being g treated and they notice things are getting bad they rush in and try to take them away so they can die in peace.

That's not true anymore, there are simply no places for them in the hospitals and clinics.

You have to come into contact with bodily fluids or excrement and then those fluids would need to be introduced with your own. For example if touched that person without gloves and they were sweaty then you touched your hands to your mouth/nose/eyes.

Or if, you know, you breathe.

As Tom Frieden said the other day, "We are all connected by the air we breathe."

It's not an airborne virus. It takes more than breathing, as it's not transmitted through the air. It is transmitted via surface contact. Any medical professional will tell you the same thing.

It's not an airborne virus. It takes more than breathing, as it's not transmitted through the air. It is transmitted via surface contact. Any medical professional will tell you the same thing.

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's contagious in amounts as low as one virus particle, it's contagious in vomit and diarrhea aerosols as well as from coughed aerosols, the CDC has admitted the same thing. The CIDRAP advisory I just linked makes it very clear.

It is NOT proven. You continue to pass off rhetoric as fact. Anyone at the WHO or CDC can say any number of things that boarder along sensationalism. It's their job to set up proper planning and coordination to control disease, not to asses and study it's properties.

I'm not saying ebola isn't a big deal, or that people shouldn't take proper precautions. What I am saying is don't pass off rhetoric as fact.

Anyone at the WHO or CDC can say any number of things that boarder along sensationalism.

Ok, I'll bite. what's your cv in virology, epidemiology or related subjects?

Who is really talking out his ass, you or them?

If anything I think the health organizations are minimizing the risk.

Minimizing risk?

Then why the hell aren't they doing that? Rhetoric doesn't minimize risk. Action does.

Banning flights from known epidemic nations is a great way to start, or at the least checking passengers for any signs of illness. Which has not been done. They can say all they want, but until they take action it is meaningless.

I agree 100%.

Are you aware of the circumstances under which the previous CDC director quit?

You also have to realize that there is mounting evidence and concern of weak-airborne or long-aerosol transmission. Initially the WHO and CDC were vehemently against the possibility but it's been coming out of the bag, a very recent example being Frieden's statement the other day that "we are all connected by the air we breathe."

Also please understand that I'm not a conspiracy buff, the main reason I read this crap is to counter claims that it's part of a depopulation agenda, that vaccines are the mark of the beast, etc.

I'm not either. Just come here to get other viewpoints on the news of the day.

You're spreading the same blathering, incorrect rhetoric as the paid shills in /r/worldnews. That's what you're doing. And then framing it as just a discussion.

It's possible that he might be doing that-- he's apparently active duty army-- but usually they are a little more aggressive and less reasonable as well as less willing to acknowledge the risk.

I also think the official stance on it has changed substantially in the last two weeks, from "pish posh, everything will be ok" to "OH SHIT!"

or trolling

you are changing the subject

What the fuck part of aerosolized droplets do you assholes not GET about this? Day in day out on reddit, there are fanatics like you acting like Ebola being able to transfer itself via anything other than pruposefully rubbing dead bodies on one's face is heresy, and I'm sick of seeing it. The fucking CDC and WHO have acknowledged that it is able to infect others in close proximity without the need for direct contact against bodily fluids FUCK!

The reason it is spreading like wildfire in Africa is because people refuse to let doctors do their jobs.

So why are experienced doctors and nurses catching it? Do they not know their jobs?

Why are doctors and nurses treating patients without wearing gloves? What about all the doctors and nurses being physically attacked by people, does this not constitute contact?

I don't understand your questions.

Some of the most experienced Ebola doctors, nurses, and medical staff have contracted the disease and died. To believe that all of them are treating patients without wearing gloves or following high level contamination prevention protocols is absurd.

Some doctors, nurses, and other medical staff have contracted Ebola. Some doctors, nurses, and other medical staff have been attacked. Is your contention that ALL doctors and nurses who have ever contracted Ebola have contracted ebola via attacks by ebola infected individuals who, during the assaults, rubbed bodily fluid and excrement into the wounds? I think we both know how absurd that line of reasoning is.

To put it simply, for one to believe that Ebola is only passed via direct contact with bodily fluids or excrement requires a suspension of logical reasoning.

go back to r/conspurtard, you are wasting your time.

Time we'll spent. I'm not a fan of conspiratard. As effed up as this sub is getting there's still no need for a sub that is 100% devoted to bashing this one.

bodily fluids or excrement and then those fluids would need to be introduced with your own

So this happened with 100 people?

Edit:

People can also contract the disease by touching infected fluids and then touching their eyes or mouth. The virus does not spread through the air, unlike measles or chickenpox. And Ebola does not invade healthy skin, so merely touching secretions does not mean an infection will follow. But washing hands or using an alcohol-based hand sanitizer is essential after any potential contact, to avoid spreading the virus to other people or to one’s own eyes or mouth. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/03/us/understanding-the-risks-of-ebola-and-what-direct-contact-means.html

Yeah, this sounds nothing like how the flu is mostly spread. Nothing at all. Dude with ebola sneezes into hand, touches doorknob, you touch doorknob and then rub your eye. Are you saying 0% risk?

That's the gray area. If you take proper precautions when touching surfaces and/or those surfaces are cleaned properly you should be fine, but Ebola Virus can live on surfaces for a few hours, however it's typically only transmitted by direct immediate contact.

Just as an interjection, but ebola virions can remain infectious for much longer once the ambient temperatures decrease.

Just in time for the chilly fall temps eh!?

Thats what im thinking. To my knowledge, ebola hasnt really been observed in outbreaks outside if the warm humid climates of africa.

Makes me wonder to what extent would its infectiousness be facilitated by north americas cold winters?

Especially when everyone has the sniffles and is constantly rubbing their noses.

Good point! Also, wouldnt that also hinder the immune system (having the "sniffles") enough to further increase the liklihood of contracting other illnesses? Or is that a poor assumption?

Yes especially during flu season.

So many variables at play, here. Definately stuff to be concerned about, imo. But even still, i dont think its enough to "wipe out the population" and stuff. I dont see the outbreak spreading very much in america, but i suppose its still possible..

flu has a mortality rate of 0.0001% , Ebola kills 70% plus of its victims and the survivors are prob damaged for life also.

How convenient that there's positive cases in the U.S. just as we're entering autumn.

I'm not worried about myself but I am concerned about the government's response to this. It's not insane to block flights from ebola hotspots as many countries already have: https://www.internationalsos.com/ebola/index.cfm?content_id=435&language_id=ENG

Recently an American cameraman was diagnosed with it: http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/03/health/ebola-nbc-ashoka-mukpo/index.html

Maybe he was directly touching ebola patients that were also symptomatic, maybe not.

It's also concerning that just one person can cause 100 people to have to be monitored. They are not quarantined but still there are resources being diverted toward them. If ebola even spread very mildly you can see the exponential amount of resources that will be required. Troubling. Each patient requires tens of people (maybe hundreds) and extreme precautions (hazmat suits) and planes cannot be properly sterilized.

That may be the reason why the government solicited for like 160k hazmat suites recently...

[deleted]

That's not what I'm saying at all.

I was stating that people fighting off the flu virus would be at a higher risk of getting ebola/fighting it off due to a weakened immune system and the guaranteed touching of their eyes nose mouth.

Hmmm.... Member of the US Army with next to zero posts in /r/conspiracy suddenly shows up to tell us why we shouldn't worry about ebola. Seems legit.

Is the information wrong?

Africa is because people refuse to let doctors do their jobs

Africa does not have a national health service, if anybody thinks the US health service is dire and expensive, the African hospitals are 100 times worse.

Africa is not a nation. It can't have a national health service.

This raises the question, if ebola is only transferred by direct contact with the person and only when they are symptomatic then are people seriously telling me that this person had physical contact with 100 people in a few days?

It's 100 possible contacts, meaning people who might have touched something he touched, etc. They are just trying to be on the safe side. As well they should be.

I agree with you about "everything is fine" and the narrative. They have to look like they are in total control for political reasons, and a lot of people don't want their safety to be questioned. Also this is the first time I have seen significant numbers of people I suspected to be shills.

At the same time I wouldn't worry too much about the disease in the US or other first world countries. If it does ramp up it will take a long time to do so and there will be ample time to prepare.

One thing you have to realize about the flu is that flu cases don't generate a heavy response from public health authorities. After seeing what's going on in Liberia you can expect them to treat it deadly seriously.

In fact I bet the response is going to be so overwhelming that people on this sub are going to be completely losing their shit.

people who might have touched something he touched

This is exactly my point. The official narrative repeated like some sort of robot is that you have to have direct contact with the person, not contact with something they had contact with. Of course, that's absurd b/c 100 people didn't touch him but here we are. Contradictory official narrative being parroted by officials and media types.

Last night when they were interviewing Nancy Snyderman about her cameraman and the fact that they were all going to be quarantined she said exactly the same line, almost as if reading from a script:

Really, you cannot catch Ebola from someone if that person isn’t experiencing symptoms. And symptoms really include looking sick, feeling achy, and being exposed to bodily fluids, vomit, diarrhea, blood, urine, or sweat. We have mitigated those chances by being very careful. http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/dr-nancy-snyderman-colleagues-ebola-diagnosis

Now, what she said is technically true but it's a lie by omission. You can also catch it from surfaces that infected people have touched. That is what's being omitted and purposely so.

Really, you cannot catch Ebola from someone

No, but you can catch it from something, a surface.

They are indeed lying by omission, by "simplifying" the story.

It's a fact that the primary transmission mechanism is thus and so. But their party line is that the primary transmission route is the only one and that's just not the case. Though it is the primary route.

Of course, that's absurd b/c 100 people didn't touch him but here we are.

But we don't know that. We don't know who he touched and who he didn't. My guess is these people also include airline passengers who sat near him or in his seat. Which again is pretty disturbing and exposes half truths in the official narrative.

At the same time though the large number of people under observation is the CDC erring on the safe side.

Honestly I'm not personally very worried about it. I don't like it very much that we're getting half truths and trickle truth.

This raises the question, if ebola is only transferred by direct contact with the person and only when they are symptomatic then are people seriously telling me that this person had physical contact with 100 people in a few days? I doubt I've physically touched 100 people in the last year much less a few days.

I don't think the idea is that he himself had contact with 100 people. They come up with that number from something that is probably more along these lines:

• They see he has had contact with 4 people in the past few days

• They examine those 4 people, and see that in total, those 4 people have come into contact with 22 other people

• They examine those 22 other people and look at who they have come into contact with

• They conclude that up to 100 people are now at risk, based on the activities of the aforementioned 27 people

I agree the "symptomatic" part throws a wrench into all of this, but I also agree that that statement is either bullshit or a mistake. The idea that you could only catch Ebola virus from a person showing obvious symptoms does not sound correct to me.

Recently, /r/science has been shown to have a political agenda:

"Recently"? They have shown a strong political agenda on some issues for a long time - e.g., global warming. (Although lately the fervor for that example in particular is slowly [puts eyeglasses] cooling down.)

That is not exactly surprising. Since traditional religions are loosing influence in the West, Science became the new god and scientists (or rather scientific-sounding mouthpieces) the clergy. They are politically used to justify a lot of stuff based on the theological argument of "sin against reason", so to speak. And in doing so they wallow in all the fallacies that the true scientific method should avoid at all costs, like the argument to authority and argumentum ad populum ("this is true because everyone believes it is").

Persecution complex?

No. I don't feel victimized at all. Just pointing out a few things.

Are you a pedophile?

I don't know if he's a pedophile, but he definitely has a superiority complex.

he/she is an ELIZA, an artificial intelligence pretending to be human.

these troll personas have no individuality, they parrot the key talking points they have on their list, they respond with very predictable replies.

they pretend to be superior and better educated/informed than the average denizen of the forum they troll.

the few times they actually are human rather than bots, they are into FPS gaming, Naruto and similar anime, and other childish pastimes, which really points to their average age group and range, ie late teen and twenties.

and these wet behind the ear tweenies try to argue and debate down on subjects and content they were not old enough to have witnessed first hand, very very laughable.

Ah, interesting and disheartening. Thanks.

That's the gray area. If you take proper precautions when touching surfaces and/or those surfaces are cleaned properly you should be fine, but Ebola Virus can live on surfaces for a few hours, however it's typically only transmitted by direct immediate contact.

Good point! Also, wouldnt that also hinder the immune system (having the "sniffles") enough to further increase the liklihood of contracting other illnesses? Or is that a poor assumption?

Yes especially during flu season.

Hmmm.... Member of the US Army with next to zero posts in /r/conspiracy suddenly shows up to tell us why we shouldn't worry about ebola. Seems legit.