I respect the importance of religion, I believe in the existence of a spiritual aspect to our lives, but for the life of me, I can't see why any thinking human being would waste his time and energy on such total crap as the rapture. It's a fairy tale.

Esacpism? Revelations is scary when you don't read it from the perspective of all the Christians being empowered like the Apostles were. Not 12 this time, but 2.18 billion. Walking around being at peace and healing people and stuff. While the world is being destroyed around them.

Christianity is infiltrated by Rome and secret societies. Modern Christian doctrine is not Biblical, but the mystery babylon religion in its place. Outwardly, Christianity and the Bible are being shaped to fit ecumenism. Internally, it's all the same gnostic shit being pumped out by the antichrist and the image of the beast. Same goes for Islam, Judaism, and the rest.

Today, they all follow the beast and wonder after her - all of them except those who hold true to the Bible. In the world today, Biblical Christianity is the only separatist religion that isn't supportive of ecumenism. The pope holds the title of Christ in the flesh and says Bible believers should go elsewhere. He wields political and religious power that is out of this world. We back Israel because it's his wishes... It's going to play a role in the final massive conflict to finish the job and merge religion and government. If you think religion is not a part of government, wake up. This last conflict won't put religion back into politics, but only confirm it's been there all along. This system is a religion.

You're right, a pre-tribulation rapture is not Biblical. The Bible says the tribulation happens, all the religions come together with government as one, and the mark of the beast becomes do or die. At this time, the dead who are in Christ will rise with the living in Christ and go up into heaven for a thousand years. After that period, the millennium, the new holy city comes down to Earth. Satan and all of the wicked who hold fast to him will try to attack God's people and will be wiped out of existence.

The male and female dynamic you speak of is bits and pieces of new age, gnostic doctrine, by the way. The male/female system is the nature of Satan, and is pervasive through all sun god worship systems or Earthly gnostic based systems.

At this time, the dead who are in Christ will rise with the living in Christ and go up into heaven for a thousand years. After that period, the millennium, the new holy city comes down to Earth. Satan and all of the wicked who hold fast to him will try to attack God's people and will be wiped out of existence.

I think the millennial kingdom is earthly.

The male and female dynamic you speak of is bits and pieces of new age, gnostic doctrine, by the way. The male/female system is the nature of Satan, and is pervasive through all sun god worship systems or Earthly gnostic based systems.

Ruoch is masculine, Ruach is feminine.

new age

Messianic Judaism? Not the Maimonidian kind.

The Bible says that, during the millennium, the righteous live in heaven and the unrighteous live on Earth with Satan. That's one of the problems with modern doctrine... it's not Biblical. They go to what they desire rather than what the text says.

Messianic Judaism is a paradox. If you put the Bible together, textus recepticus and brit chadasha, old and new testaments... You get seventh day adventism.

Hell, the pope says it himself. If you believe Christ died and is risen, and that we should follow the commandments and believe upon the Bible and Christ then Catholicism and Christianity are not where you belong, but rather adventism. He bashes the SDA church because they follow the Bible, they are separatist, and they are the culmination of the reformation. The Bible says believe upon Christ and to come out and be separate. Ecumenism is the consequence of a system against God.

He changes God's laws and holidays, then puts his mark on it and says follow me or follow Christ... Then turns around and pretends to be the real deal saying those who follow Christ are doing it wrong.

EDIT: New age

The Bible says that, during the millennium, the righteous live in heaven and the unrighteous live on Earth with Satan. That's one of the problems with modern doctrine... it's not Biblical. They go to what they desire rather than what the text says.

Got strawman-y. How are the nations gathered to observe Sukkot in the millennial kingdom by going up to Jerusalem if they're in heaven?

Messianic Judaism is a paradox. If you put the Bible together, textus recepticus and brit chadasha, old and new testaments... You get seventh day adventism.

SDA's wear tzitzit? Nah...

The New Jerusalem is in heaven... it doesn't come down to the Earth until after the millennium. And no, SDAs don't follow Jewish traditions, they follow the Bible. The Bible warns against inheriting the traditions of man. Judaism is far gone from the Bible because they don't accept the brit chadashah, and Christianity is far gone because they don't accept the textus recepticus. They're both full of man made traditions that supersede Biblical doctrine... aka gnostic doctrine.

The New Jerusalem is in heaven... it doesn't come down to the Earth until after the millennium.

I disagree. Have scripture to back your claim?

And no, SDAs don't follow Jewish traditions, they follow the Bible. The Bible warns against inheriting the traditions of man. Judaism is far gone from the Bible because they don't accept the brit chadashah, and Christianity is far gone because they don't accept the textus recepticus.

I'm talking about Numbers 15:38, a clear instruction to wear four tassels throughout their generations.

The tassels have to do with Jewish traditions they were to uphold to represent the coming of the Messiah. The slaughter of the lamb who carried the sins away. To continue to sacrifice and carry out those traditions is the same as saying Jesus didn't die for our sins and the lamb of God has not be slain. That's blasphemy.

Of course the new Holy city is in heaven. It's not here. REV 19-21 go through it.

http://biblehub.com/kjv/revelation/20.htm

Satan is bound a thousand years after the first resurrection, and the dead in Christ rise be with Him for a thousand years. Afterwards there is Chapter 21 where the new city descends from heaven...

The tassels have to do with Jewish traditions they were to uphold to represent the coming of the Messiah. The slaughter of the lamb who carried the sins away. To continue to sacrifice and carry out those traditions is the same as saying Jesus didn't die for our sins and the lamb of God has not be slain. That's blasphemy.

Y'shua didn't abolish Torah; those who teach such will be the least in the kingdom.

It clearly lists the 1,000 on earth and talks about a construction of a new heaven and earth after in 21.

Sadly, our discussion seems to be going nowhere. You're attacking a mischaracterization of me and making accusations of blasphemy. How you gonna react when the morning and evening sacrifices are shut down in the abomination of desolation?

Of course he didn't abolish Torah. He fulfilled prophecy, of which the rituals were a part of. He showed the light and the way to live out the Torah.

I never said anything about you specifically, I'm only talking doctrine. The millennial period has two sides, what's happening on this Earth and those that have been raptured. There is rejoicing in heaven as those who were raptured shout God's judgment is righteous. No one is in heaven save those who were specifically mentioned in the Bible... the rest are dead awaiting judgment in the end days. How can there be rejoicing over God's judgment in heaven if nobody is up there?

Revelations is chiastically structured.

Of course he didn't abolish Torah. He fulfilled prophecy, of which the rituals were a part of. He showed the light and the way to live out the Torah.

I would theologically equate this to having a waiter filling your cup, and having him taken it away.

I never said anything about you specifically, I'm only talking doctrine.

Sorry, my theological position, then.

The millennial period has two sides, what's happening on this Earth and those that have been raptured. There is rejoicing in heaven as those who were raptured shout God's judgment is righteous. No one is in heaven save those who were specifically mentioned in the Bible... the rest are dead awaiting judgment in the end days. How can there be rejoicing over God's judgment in heaven if nobody is up there?

Are you equating the multitude in rev 7 with the one in rev 19?

Micah 4:1-2 1 In the last days the mountain of the LORD's temple will be established as chief among the mountains; it will be raised above the hills, and peoples will stream to it. 2 Many nations will come and say, "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths." The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

It's more like the waiter bringing you a blue crayon and a paper with a drawing on it of a glass and saying this is a symbol of what is to come. You color the glass in and finish the picture. Then comes along a real cup, which he fills with water... and you ask him "Well what about the prophecy? When is it coming?" The prophecy was fulfilled and there's no sense carrying on the ritual of coloring in the glass, because it was meant to convey the message that your drink was on the way. When it arrived you rejected it, yet later with hindsight it's easy to see how you were mistaken because you have all of the events in front of you. If you keep coloring the picture over and over, you're just rejecting that it already came true.

This is kinda how I look at Judaism. They're waiting for a day that already came, and curse everyone who believes it has. They have laws against studying the prophecy because they know who it points to, so they throw it away and reject it.

Nah, my cup overflows.

There are still the fall feasts to be fulfilled.

Yep. At the sound of trumpets... the judgment... the wedding ceremony... The good stuff. Our hope for the future. All that stuff Revelations talks about.

Rosh Hashanah, the feast of trumpets.

Also, Malachi 4 clearly tells the last generation to remember the laws of Moses. And Isaiah 66:17, in context with surrounding verses.

Absolutely remember the laws of Moses! Jesus said if you love me keep my commandments! One of those is the Sabbath, the seventh day! The pope calls himself Christ in the flesh and removed that commandment... would you really trust him to teach you Biblical doctrine? Moreover, why are 'protestant' churches now accepting ecumenism and listening to the pope? Why aren't they following the Bible but the church?

The pope calls himself Christ in the flesh and removed that commandment...

He lacks the authority to do so, IMO.

would you really trust him to teach you Biblical doctrine?

As for the rest, a dragon with two horns like a lamb, perhaps?

I don't trust the Pope. He is antichrist. Only God can change times and laws, says the Bible. The Papacy even changes the Bible.

The beast with the horns like a lamb is like unto the beast... It is like the Papal system in that it removes God and exalts gnostic doctrine, using force to compel compliance. This is the United States. The country was born of the human rights movement, you know... gnostic doctrine. Here, the Jesuits, the Masons, etc... found reprieve from the beast that was killing them at the time, as did the reformists. There is a specific time prophecy that points to the year the US was recognized by France as a sovereign nation. Anyhow, today, they work together as was fortold. The Pope has great power over politicians and religions. He is held up high in the UN and they follow his advice to the letter.

And if you don't think human rights is trying to play God... just look at the declaration of human rights. This is the system of the end times...

You know about the tetrad, right?

Yes... but I couldn't tell you what exactly it means. Perhaps this is the beginning of the tribulation. All prophecy has been fulfilled all the way up to the tribulation period. Every bit of it, even a day where the sun did not shine and the moon was blood red in the same 24 hour period. The bible identifies a church, born in 1844, that is the last remaining light in the world... or the last remaining Biblical doctrine being preached.

I know one thing... things are going from bad to worse, and the chess masters are ready to make some big moves. Tensions in every aspect of life on this planet are at the breaking point. Sides are being drawn and dominoes are lined up.

Well, there's still the 2015 stuff. I figure now might be a two minute warning of sorts.

How we end up being led down a road where we get RFID in right hands or foreheads still baffles me. Seems like someone would call it out as a bad PR move, you know?

That's more misinformation. The mark of the beast is not a thing, it's a doctrine. God's mark is the Sabbath and the commandments. It signifies creation and the seventh day rest. The beast's mark is Sunday and human rights. You either have one or the other in your actions and your thoughts, or in your forehead and on your hand.

You either walk and think Christ's way, or you walk and think man's way. That's the mark. Who's law do you serve?

You can't tax the rich and give to the poor. It's theft. Just like taxing the poor and giving it to the government. You can't follow God's law and follow man's law... it's designed that way. This is the mark in your forehead.

Forehead = thinking? I don't buy that.

Ezekial 20:12

"I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them."

Exodus 31:17

"It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth."

God gave us his mark and identified it so we know what to look for in the beast's mark. If God's seal, sign, or mark is the Sabbath... well we know that the beast will do like God does in his attempt to impersonate Him.

A quote from the catholic catechism:

"Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."

It's her mark. The papacy openly admits this and calls it her mark.

What is taught in Sunday mass is the mark of the beast in your forehead. They teach human rights and power of authority not in God but in the church and state.

Shabbat is more like a wedding than the piercing mark in Revelations.

http://lionlamb.net/v3/YAVOHArchives/Volume6/03

It's a mark of the bride of Christ, which is His people. We are the bride of Christ.

Again, who do you wish to marry? The church/state or God? Sunday or Saturday?

I agree except for "mark." In greek it's clearly a piercing, and forbidden by Biblical law in Torah. A sign?

Also, that Ezekiel mentions "sabbaths." You know that there are 7 high Sabbaths?

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Sabbaths

There are also periods every seventh year where the land is to rest according to Jubilee, and God judges nations accordingly. This is especially significant now with this being the seven year anniversary of the last major depressive episode to our economy and the tetrad. The beginning of the tetrad was the start of the hebrew year, and judgment takes place at the end of the year in september/october.

According to this alone, this year is going to be nasty.

Nothing I disagree with here, except Rosh Hashanah is the New Year. I'm actually aware of the rest and have been told I'm well versed a time or two.

Again, who do you wish to marry? The church/state or God? Sunday or Saturday?

You edited this in while I was replying to the unedited version.

Where did you ask this before? Do you really have to after I posted the link about Shabbat being a ring of rememberance?

Either way, Shabbat is from sundown on the day we call Friday until sundown on the day we call Saturday.

I was referring back to the mark. You either have one mark or the other. You select your husband and obey accordingly. And yes, you're right. Friday night is to prepare for Saturday and Saturday we celebrate the LORD.

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore, lol. Yeah, the mark thing, I know, but seems we're at least looking at the same page if not both on it.

Arguing? Sheeeit son we's just talkin' bout the Most High on His Holy day :)

:)

I need some sleep. Shabbat Shalom.

Ruoch is masculine, Ruach is feminine.

Source?

Sounds more like Ruoch is Yiddish-Hebrew and Ruach is classical and modern Hebrew.

I think you might be right, I'm suddenly not sure where I read that and google isn't helping me. About ruoch, though I'm sure Ruach is feminine.

Alright Salt_and_Light, I found your shit and I'm ready to jump in. I have gotten a lot of shit here on reddit for some of the stuff I've posted, but at the same time I think I have sparked some great discussion.

I would like to share a few of my most concentrated posts on eschatology, the occult and the like.

The first post I made to try and bring awareness to a very troubling issue, The Council of Nicea.

I also made a case where I related John Glubb's essay "The Fate of Empires - The Search for Survival" to repeating astrological cycles. The purpose of this post was to demonstrate how our government and society as a whole are on a downward spiral to collapse. Not saying that it's necessarily a bad thing, but the tides are changing.

But that shit is caaaake compared to a post I made on /r/occult a couple weeks ago. The thread was discussing how /r/conspiracy is leaking into the occult sub. This is true, we have gotten some shitty material recently, by that I mean material that clearly goes against our guidelines. But there is one super mega conspiracy I have been looking into. It blows the lid off everything about our past, hint hint it's all been fabricated and skewed. Read about it here

I could talk about this shit forever, because apparently its been going on forever. Go figure; As Above So Below. This shit is reaaaaally heavy. I mentioned it in the last link, but the author died an ominous and sudden death after being harassed and snooped on by, well I'm not sure who it was exactly, there isn't a lot of factual information on his death, it was that out of the blue. The point is, this information is veeeeery delicate and some higher ups needed this guy silenced. I'm not to worried about sharing it with some strangers on the internet in this day and age where we're already mass surveiled.

Am digging into the nicea post as well, thanx for everything!

Glad to be of interest :) Not too many people in my day-day "mundane" life have the time and capability to discuss such topics, so I do rather enjoy scouring the web to reach able minds. They're important topics, yet oddly enough essentially taboo.

The comet DID put on a light show. And the other day a false report of a level 12 earth quake hit africa, but was removed quite quickly. They know it will come, but put it up too early. We're fucked!! Just sit and watch

The comet DID put on a light show.

Yes, just not the one BPearthwatch spoke of: http://youtu.be/5E9SZce6pzM

And the other day a false report of a level 12 earth quake hit africa, but was removed quite quickly. They know it will come, but put it up too early.

I believe it was just a technical error.

We're fucked!! Just sit and watch

I'm a watchman, have been for some time. When/if it comes in our lifetimes, find someone who isn't scared. Perfect love drives out that sorta thing, and when we first seek the kingdom, which is within, and go forth with love in the Spirit, we begin to see that even things like time, space and matter are just constructs and bow to the will of the Creator.

Curious, how'd you find this thread? I'm assuming a search or you just clicked my name from a comment in another thread.

You're not a reptilian are you? /s

I found it the same way I find what I must find. Usually what I need comes to me, often in a rather bizarre coincidental way.

Also, the video you linked to is on the channel I'm currently subscribed to.

I'm a watchman, have been for some time. When/if it comes in our lifetimes, find someone who isn't scared. Perfect love drives out that sorta thing, and when we first seek the kingdom, which is within, and go forth with love in the Spirit, we begin to see that even things like time, space and matter are just constructs and bow to the will of the Creator.

Perfect love does not drive out the fear in humans, it only cages it for a while. And the spirit you speak of, is that a reference to the human soul some believe in? If so, then I must say it does not exist. There is, never was, never will be, a creator of things. But who am I to state that.

Find one who is not scared? You just responded to one whose fear, of what the future holds, is non existing; and never did exist.

In order to have some kind of chance of this world not ripping apart, each human must, in one way or another, find that tiny spot within, that has the ability to alter the way they perceive this existence and see, what you speak of, what time, space and matter is.

What many don't realizes is that time is, to put in an ugly term, unraveling.

the spirit you speak of

Was referring to the Holy Spirit(Ruach Kodesh.)

You just responded to one whose fear, of what the future holds, is non existing; and never did exist.

My bad; the "we're fucked" comment threw me off.

What many don't realizes is that time is, to put in an ugly term, unraveling.

The words "Enoch" and "time" yield some interesting google results.