Oddly enough, one of my highest scored comments on Reddit is from a previous thread about this from this very sub...

Here is a report about the death from the local Sheriff.

My previous comment on this was:

The police summary of events seems quite detailed. The gun was registered to him, he was seen buying the ammunition shortly before the murders, for the suicide shot the gun was held in a way that would have been difficult for another person.

He had been diagnosed with bi-polar disorder and had a history of depression and mental illness.

It's a tragic event for sure, but the only reason anyone is suggesting it is suspicious is because of who he is, not any of the known facts of the killing.

For the 'who he is' thing - what sense does it make to kill a 9/11 conspiracy writer after he's written and published two books?

Surely if conspirators were killing anyone to keep the truth of 9/11 under wraps it would be people you'd never heard of... They'd be the ones with the real good information.

Here is your most likely answer. Hell, I'd say this is 99.9% correct. You know, Occam's razor and all.

The entire purpose of this sub is to pretend Occam's razor is blunt.

Occam's razor is itself a blunt tool.

Often the simplest and most obvious explanation is NOT the correct one.

For example, the most obvious explanation for the shape of the Earth, is that it is flat, because that is what we can see with our eyes. It seems counter intuitive that the Earth is spherical, unless one has additional knowledge.

Edit: or take the example of whether the Earth goes around the sun, or the sun around the Earth - the simplest explanation, that was believed for thousands of years, is that the sun travels around the Earth, as do the rest of the Heavens. It took a lot of work the accumulation of a lot of knowledge to undo that simple explanation.

Occam's razor doesn't always work. It often depends on how much knowledge and information one has.

For example, the most obvious explanation for the shape of the Earth, is that it is flat, because that is what we can see with our eyes. It seems counter intuitive that the Earth is spherical, unless one has additional knowledge.

No it's fucking not. Have you ever seen the horizon?

Seriously. Im pretty sure the greeks found the circumference, so guy was lying on his stomach staring at the sunset, then as soon as the sun went down, he stood immediately up, and timed it to when it went down a second time. Plus, at a decent height, like a mountain, you can see the curvature.

There's no way you could possible discern the difference in 6 feet elevation change.

Yeah you are right, quoted the wrong vsauce video.

Its this one at 3:43 http://youtu.be/VNqNnUJVcVs?t=3m43s

so guy was lying on his stomach staring at the sunset, then as soon as the sun went down, he stood immediately up, and timed it to when it went down a second time.

what?

Then, he jumped as high as he could and saw back in time.

Not if you were living before there was an understanding of what the "horizon" is.

You don't need to know a damn thing to see a ship come over the horizon.

That's just the edge of the disc (of course).

it's a guide. tends to be the simplest explanation doesn't imply it is always the simplest. to me, it is a starting place, not the end.

But it can easily be used as an excuse for ignorant and lazy thinking

This is exactly what I've been saying for years. The problem with it is, what appears to be the simplest solution from our perspective isn't actually always the simplest solution. Occlams' Razor is in fact nonsense. What is matter? Occlam's razor would say it is what it appears to be, a solid substance. However this is not true.

Indeed.

Occam's razor is a popular delusion. The simplest explanation is not always the right one - but that idea appeals to the simple minded.

Lol that's the kind of username that gets you on a watch list.

Occam's Razor also has a clause for additional complexity within itself.

"Plurality must never be posited without necessity."

Occam's razor means the solution that makes the least assumptions is generally correct, not necessarily the simplest.

Zeus makes lightning. Simple. But you have to assume there's a God on top of mount Olympus that no man has seen.

The workings of how clouds generate lightning is very complex, but there are almost no assumptions made anymore thanks to the scientific method.

But some lightening is understood to come up From the ground now. It's as much generated by "clouds" as it is by the Earth.

Lightening is a bad example, because it is still not fully understood.

For ancient people, it was far easier to assume the sun travelled round the Earth - the only thing which overturned that "obvious" idea was more information.

Occam's razor doesn't work when one does not have all the facts - and more often than not, nobody ever has all the facts.

If that was true, then all the reports on 9/11 would be highly praised here.

Occam's razor would suggest him and his family were murdered. Normal, everyday people with careers and no history of mental illness or criminal acts do not murder their own children and the fucking dog.

I think its good to be skeptical, but too often people want there to be a conspiracy when the reality is a lot less exciting.

Very true. Michael Hastings has more traction of suspicion if all of the details are true. Illegal prior restraint is essentially the MO in those cases.

Quit using Occam's razor incorrectly. It is meant for scientific phenomena, not human endeavors. An electron can't lie, cheat, conspire, or steal. Don't be an unwitting shill.

Nope, that was a correct use of Occam's razor. It's a principle for forming a theory on the basis of available data, it doesn't matter what the data is.

The possibilities here are either

a) mentally ill man commits murder/suicide, police accurately report it. Or
b) 9/11 conspiracy theorist is onto the truth, powerful people accidentally let him publish books about this truth, but then become scared that he knows too much. Rather than making his death appear accidental, they kill him and all his family and either make it look like a suicide or just make the police lie.

Occam's razor can't tell you that one of these is true and one isnt, but without anot other evidence, it makes more sense to believe the simple story. If you always take the simpler story as truth, you'll probably be right more often than wrong.

This thing that gets me is.... If the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are correct (I do believe 9/11 was allowed to happen) then why this one guy? Odds are sooner or later a guy who also believes the governments conclusion regarding 9/11 is wrong will die or kill or be killed in a way.

I would love for you to take little ole, pea-brained, knuckle dragging me and walk me step by step on how 9/11 went down. The thousands of people involved that have never said a word. All the absolutely incorrect information that gets passed down as fact and then refuted from actual scientists and engineers. Tell me all the black-ops that no one knows about except a select few and you, apparently.

Then tell me how I used a scientific theory wrong.

I would love for you to take little ole, pea-brained, knuckle dragging me and walk me step by step on how 9/11 went down.

I'm only doing this because you asked for it. I am not a "truther"...

The thousands of people involved that have never said a word.

Confuse the proper entities with a training exercise.

All the absolutely incorrect information that gets passed down as fact and then refuted from actual scientists and engineers.

This part is just dumb.

Tell me all the black-ops that no one knows about except a select few and you, apparently.

What are you talking about? What the fuck are you talking about? The only recent black ops that the public really even knows about is seal team 6 which is extremely suspicious for one reason or another.

Then tell me how I used a scientific theory wrong.

You didn't use the scientific theory at all. You just took authority at their word.

I didn't say you were wrong. But if you're blinding following the 9/11 Commission, you're the one with the problem.

The smoking gun is... It just so happened that a war games simulation of the same situation was happening the same day. What are the odds? Occam's razor would tell you.

If we did, you'd still shove your head in the sand and claim we are the crazy ones.

Nope, that was a correct use of Occam's razor. It's a principle for forming a theory on the basis of available data, it doesn't matter what the data is.

First off, good comment. I generally agree with what you said, and this is especially important:

Occam's razor can't tell you that one of these is true and one isn't

It's important to remember that Occam's Razor tells us when we should question why we're leaping to the less likely conclusion, not that it's always wrong.

If you always take the simpler story as truth, you'll probably be right more often than wrong.

This is the only thing I have a problem with. Occam's Razor isn't about simplicity, it's about introducing new assumptions.

For example, let's take 9/11. Many conspiracy theorists look at the buildings falling and see something that looks like the way a controlled demolition behaves. They then assume that this is what happened. But this requires introducing a new set of causes, rather than the fuel-laden plane that had just slammed into it, and which most experts agree would have weakened key supports via heat, leading to a chain of failures.

The simplest explanation is, "what looks like a demolition is," but the one which introduces the fewest new assumptions is that the complex interaction of burning jet fuel and a building built to withstand small plane impact produces the same result.

Occam's razor is bullshit, Newtonian physics is simper than general relativity. There is no clear reason it will or wont hold true.

But before the theory of general relativity, there was no available evidence to believe something more complicated than Newtonian physics, so that was the better theory. When the general theory of relativity was established, it was on the basis of more evidence. That evidence made the theory the simplest explanation of available evidence.

It's never going to be better to add unnecessary complexity, where there is no evidence to justify it. Where there is such evidence, if it is sufficient it will make the more complex theory the simplest explanation. That's not an argument against Occam's razor,

Occam's razor is a guide, asserting conclusion based on it is not science or useful. I agree, simple is good, and we want simple. That said dismissing a complex solution bc its complex is not a good methodology. You will miss correct solutions if you do.

You're not dismissing it because it's complex, you're dismissing it because you had to add unsubstantiated assumptions to the explanation to get to that conclusion.

Quit assuming that everything's a fucking conspiracy without proof.

Stop calling people 'shills' for no reason.

Stop stopping people doing things!

Stop stopping stop people from stopping!

Stop!

There was this movement a while back which advocates using the logic of science, logic and reason to every day life. It was called the Enlightenment. You may have heard of it.

Edit: autocorrected logic to google.

If you are going to hold the torch of science, logic and reason, it would make sense not to make stupid assumptions based on a single comment about how one rule of thumb should be used.

I'm really confused as to what you're trying to say. I have read and reread it about a dozen times now. Are you suggesting that my comment about Occam's Razor being an Enlightenment principle which can be applied across multiple disciplines is based solely on your comment? Are you sticking to your guns and saying that Occam's razor only applies to scientific phenomena?

If you are that easily confused then perhaps you don't have as strong of a grasp of logic as you claim.

I simply criticized a single usage of Occam's razor, and you responded with some condescending statement that had nothing to do with my point, and made the stupid and wrong assumption that I don't know what the enlightenment is and do not care for its principles.

Your sentence was poorly worded. I'm honestly confused on what the assumption was that I made based of a single comment. And sorry if it sounded condescending. Perhaps I should instead repeatedly call you stupid as you have been doing to me?

You also didn't criticize a single usage of Occam's razor. You made a blanket statement about its application outside science. You said "It is meant for scientific phenomena, not human endeavors". My statement does bear on your previous point because people have been applying to the logic of science to human endeavors since the Enlightenment.

Occam's razor can be used for anything

I use it to shave my balls.

Then it is too broad to be useful.

Too true. In human events simple is A possibility. See movie Small Apartments. Simple solution incorrect.

for the suicide shot the gun was held in a way that would have been difficult for another person.

What kind of way is that? An assassin could use any possible angle to point a gun at him, right?

If it was up, through the mouth, it would be an odd angle to shoot someone at

If I ever murder someone this is how I'm doing it.

No that's just not true. You can make it look like someone killed themselves with a gun and their hand no problem.

You're right. I should have said it was an unnatural angle for another person. They could obviously do it, but it would be awkward for them and unnecessary.

Unnecessary unless your your plan involves staging a murder/ suicide..

Well, no... Unnecessary regardless.

The gun was held inverted against his temple. That is perhaps the easiest and most relaxed position, but it's equally possible (and not difficult) for someone to hold a handgun against their head the right way up, or even on it's side (in one direction at least).

So the gun being held in what would be the normal way for another person placing it against the victim's head wouldn't be unusual for a suicide, as the person could easily hold it themselves in the same position.

But being held upside down, while easy for a suicide victim, would be more difficult for an assassin.

How do they know the gun was upside down?

"The impression left by the Glock 9mm gun barrel muzzle established that when he shot himself he held the gun rotated in an inverted (upside down) position."

From the report.

Seems relevant...

As far as the known facts go, I find it interesting that they went into such detail with the kids deaths and positions, but they didn't with Phillip Marshall's they focused primarily on his medications and mental history. It's as if they are trying a little too hard to say he was psychotic that it makes it sound unbelievable. Yes they talked for two sentences about his gun, the trajectory, and the blood splatter, but it would be interesting to know if he was sitting, on the floor etc.

Too much information: it's a conspiracy!

Too little information: it's a conspiracy!

Welcome to /r/conspiracy in a nutshell. Anymore it's almost as bad as /r/HailCorporate is with calling people shills.

THIS WILL BE DOWNVOTED BY BOTS

The evil Decepticons are at it again!

They really like to watch us squishies argue.

inb4 we're /r/conspiratard's

Retardimus Prime is our leader, who transforms into a short bus

Anymore..?

It used to have less of it, it's always been here. Just not so prominent.

So "Now it's almost as bad..." would work the same way?

Yes, they both convey the exact same message with the change of a single word. Neither is more grammatically correct though.

It just doesn't sound right to me in any way, likely due to regional familiarity.

Out of curiosity, where are you?

Nice try NSA agent. I won't reveal the hiding place of my Florida home base

Hahaha - no kidding, Florida? Blink twice if it's Florida haha

Shills lol that's a new one for me but it's better than sheeple.

I don't usually call things conspiricies, I'm pretty conservative about throwing it around. I haven't decided if I believe this is or not, I don't think it is, it's not like there are two different police reports or neighbors saw something else. I just though it was interesting what they left out lol.

It really does sound like someone who was just trying to make his name famous.. I could see maybe if he had a bullet wound to the back of the head maybe, but if he was actually seen before the crime buying ammunition for his own registered gun then it seems sort of obvious.

Of course if you believe that the people responsible for 9/11 are behind an assassination then it's probably not difficult to believe that they could stage all this... a double buying the ammunition etc.

There are certainly scenarios that could be created to explain the evidence, if you were predisposed to the idea he was assassinated (based solely on his publicly expressed beliefs and books).

There's no evidence to support it, but then a suitably skillful assassin wouldn't leave any, would they? :-)

/r/conspiracy - a place where actual evidence always points in the wrong direction so we have to come up with absurdities to explain the most obvious scenarios.

Didn't the CIA stage a whole Hollywood movie to get into Iran? Didn't people call that absurd? Didn't Ben Affleck do a good job in that movie?

Just because one absurd situation actually happened doesn't mean all absurd situations are actually valid.

Agreed. Just like it doesn't mean all absurd ideas should be automatically dismissed. The earlier suggestion is not completely out of the realm of possibilities, given what little we do know and how many absurdities have already come from those operations/notes...

It does mean evidence is required. We can look into certain things but this looks like he actually did it. To assert that it was the government needs more than the fact that he was a big-time conspiracy theorist. There isn't enough to this to know.

Just because ALL scenarios they set up. Not just one fluke.

Sure, but it's a lot of fun to imagine them, isn't it? :)

That's also what someone would do who had received a threat.

It's the new book they were concerned about, something about the airplane graveyard in arizona or new mexico and he had actually travelled there and claimed to have new evidence.

Unless...

If you were waiting to assassinate him, and then he goes out and buys bullets, it would be "go time", a fortuitous opportunity to make the hit look like suicide. Just a thought.

I buy ammo more than once a month. If I was murdered, staged as a suicide, you could say the same about me.

On the other hand, the fault of most conspiracy theories, Occam's razor.

It'll be interesting to see what mom says. Both stories seem plausible.

They do similar things with other false flag events. "Shooter advanced down hallway for __ number of steps, pivoted on his left foot and peered down the left hallway, shot at blah blah down yonder, hitting victim Joe Smith x times out of y rounds shot in locations a-c, made a turn in location z, proceeded a dozen and a half wheels toward the stairs before encountering # of victims aged child thru young adult, killed these victims in such and such a manner, using secondary weapon stolen from relative with r number of rounds, threw one-less-than-a-handful number of homemade pipe bombs -- crudely made out of ingredients 1 and 2 in his garage, where authorities say neighbors assert he could regular be found listening to heavy metal music and watching pornography and anti-government propaganda -- then turned the gun on himself."

So exactly the same strategy conspiracy theorists use?

No. I do a lot of research and use verified, intelligent sources with a reputation of being truthful and accurate before I decide on any issue. Just because one or two sites say one thing, I personally want to back it up and do some research and check the facts. I don't arbitrarily decide if it is a conspiracy just because thats the "mass" assumption.

Sorry for the lack of clarification earlier. :)

So you are saying a lot of conspiracy theorists doesn't omit facts or information that doesn't fit their theory?

The ones I know do. I never was saying they didn't, also wasn't saying that people on reddit do or don't. Just stating what I do.

It looks more like they were just establishing the scenario - that he shot them while they slept.

It's a terrible thing to imagine, really.

for the suicide shot the gun was held in a way that would have been difficult for another person.

How? He was shot in the temple. And besides, what part of the body would be difficult for another person to shoot? I can't comprehend that.

are the books still out there?

One is readily available in paperback from Amazon, and the other is available on Kindle, but less available in print.

Certainly doesn't seem that either of his books is being suppressed or anything.

It was the one he was still working on that was the problem.

I live in So Cal and I looked on WorldCat, a worldwide library database. The nearest library to me that has it is in Phoenix, Arizona.

Marshall's publicist is/was a Redditor: /u/octagon420 but hasn't posted for a year or so. And that user commented on this thread but has deleted the posts:
http://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/17x0kj/former_pilot_and_911_conspiracy_theorist_shoots/
Octagon420 was with Marshall (IIRC even stayed at his house) a few days before the murder/suicide.

Marshall's blog is still up. And whether he did what he is accused of or not, he did do years of research on 911 and his blog is well worth reading.

There is talk of the censored 28 pages now and most people say that those pages deal with the Saudi Government and their involvement.

Well look at what Phillip Marshall wrote:

WANT ANSWERS? WHO TRAINED THE 9/11 HIJACKERS TO FLY BOEING JETLINERS

Dozens of reports focused on the pilot/hijackers Mohamed Atta, Hani Hanjour, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi. Flight instructors around the United States told similar stories of attempting to train them. All four had a very difficult time in their basic training on small, single-engine airplanes...SNIP

...So began my search for Middle Eastern operators of Boeing airliners. Because the hijackers were mostly Saudi Arabian, the firm of Dallah Avco, a Saudi operator of multiple private Boeing airliners, soon stood out as a focal point. To my amazement, I immediately discovered that Congressional investigators had already linked Dallah Avco with the actual hijackers. Omar Bayoumi, a Dallah employee and operative within the Saudi Ministry of Aviation, had provided housing and basic support for three hijackers: Nawaf al-Hazmi, Khalid al-Mihdhar and the pilot/hijacker of American 77, Hani Hanjour.

FBI evidence of the cell would confirm that the hijacking team of American 77 had formed and operated separately with direct financial support from top-level members of the Saudi government, bitter enemies of al Qaeda. The picture was beginning to clear...Much More http://thebigbamboozle.tumblr.com/post/40856537710/want-answers-who-trained-the-9-11-hijackers-to-fly

http://thebigbamboozle.tumblr.com/archive

There's also the matter of his next book, which he said contained "blockbuster" new evidence.

Was that on his computer that AFAIK is still in the Sheriff's custody? Was that computer turned over to his ex wife? Was any physical evidence that the Sheriff detailed in the final report made public? Not to my knowledge.

Edit: In Memory of Phillip Marshall, his kids and his dog, have some fun with Google Earth: Feed these coordinates into the go box-
32°30′35″N 111°19′31″W

Then read about what you are looking at here

While not required, you are requested to use the NP domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

How could you hear of these people getting killed if no one ever heard about them to begin with?

"Surely if conspirators were killing anyone to keep the truth of 9/11 under wraps it would be people you'd never heard of... They'd be the ones with the real good information."

You would of never heard of them, so you would of never heard of the death...

You would of never heard of them, so you would of never heard of the death...

Yes, that's the point. It doesn't make much sense to let someone publish two books and gain a reasonably high profile within the 9/11 Truth community before killing them.

If they have real good information you kill them before anyone has heard of them. No one hears about their death or even has any idea that there might be any reason to question it.

Ooga booga. They know everything before you even know it yourself. Fear them.

The coroner said both kids died in their sleep, 6 feet apart from each other. How could 1 man kill them both without waking one first?

I don't know, but I'm not even remotely convinced it's impossible. Even if one woke, it doesn't mean they would realise what had happened, especially if their father was there to reassure them or something.

Beyond that, people (especially kids), can sleep through a lot of things.

Friends of his said he had told them shortly before his death that he was sitting on bombshell information that would be in his next book.

But also, listen to him speak. Does he sound like a nutcase? What the fuck would his motive be to kill his own children??

Another conspiracy here. All the social media channels are heavily manipulated by the governments. If you ever see such a news on those web sites, they are downvoted to the oblivion.

[deleted]

For this account? Yes.

They have so many secret methods of assassination that this is too unbelievable. They give ppl cancer and shit like that.

Sometimes they shoot them. Sometimes give them a heart attack. Sometimes arrange a car crash. Poison. Lots of options. Might depend on how quickly they want the person gone. In this case they may have wanted a crime scene so they could search his house.

So the sheriff admits there are conspirators.

the gun was held in a way that would have been difficult for another person.

I fail how to see how this is possible at all, a third party could shoot you from any direction, from any distance...

Maybe "a way that would have been quite unnatural for another person" would have been better.

Nahh, my point is, how can it be difficult for another person to shoot you anywhere? Another person can access any part of your body, you can't.

I'm legitimately asking how that's possible, not playing semantic games.

Yeah, like I say, I should have phrased it better.

The report says the gun was held upside down against his right temple. That is a very natural position for a right-handed shooter to hold a gun against their own head.

However, it would be quite unnatural for another person to hold a gun against the victim's head in that way. It would also make their grip substantially weaker if there was any chance of a struggle.

On the other hand, if the gun had been help right way up, then it would be more ambiguous as that is an easy way for a person to hold a gun to their own head (only marginally less comfortable than upside down), and would also be the natural position for another shooter.

I think I read somewhere that he was left handed.

How do you do it? Amazing! You have with one genius act of deduction proven this a cover up. Now quickly go prove the illuminati are our true overlords!!!

I'm not proving it was a cover up at all... I'm literally just saying that that statement doesn't make sense.

Who else has been taken out? I've read about a scientist who discovered zero point energy and was found dead in his lab one day.

Let me start by saying I'm not claiming he was killed.

what sense does it make to kill a 9/11 conspiracy writer after he's written and published two books?

Surely if conspirators were killing anyone to keep the truth of 9/11 under wraps it would be people you'd never heard of... They'd be the ones with the real good information.

You know how people like Richard Dawkins, Neil Tyson, Cristopher Hitchens(rip) are known for their cause and become a sort of a "leader" for their respectives "movements"? Well, perhaps he was gaining too much traction and they wanted to stop him before he got too big.

Again, not saying this is what happened, just pointing out another perspective

You know how people like Richard Dawkins, Neil Tyson, Cristopher Hitchens(rip) are known for their cause and become a sort of a "leader" for their respectives "movements"? Well, perhaps he was gaining too much traction and they wanted to stop him before he got too big

Sure, of course if we were to assume that it was a murder then there are plenty of scenarios that can be imagined which would explain why.

Although I think that leader one is probably a stretch - there are plenty of high profile figures and leaders in the 9/11 Truth movement, he never seems to have been one, or even been close to becoming one. From what I could see the last time this came up - he was actually very low profile until he died.

If we were imagining reasons then I prefer the idea that they had been monitoring his work on a new book and discovered that he was actually about to disclose some real new information. Something that had never been touched on before.

I mean depending on how powerful you think they are it could be assumed that every piece of 9/11 Truth information that's publicly known has been allowed to come out, indicating that perhaps it's all wrong. The real truth of the conspiracy in that scenario would be the idea we've never actually heard. People are killed before it can come out. Usually they're people no one knows about, but in this case, because he'd published about it before he was already known.

(I think I could be a pretty good conspiracy theorist if I wanted :) )

Actually those are not very good ideas.

1- You can't kill everyone with a skeptic mind and anyone who asks "why don't they release other tapes of the pentagon attack and silence the doubters?", "why is the nist building model used to explain the collapse of building 7 kept a secret?" and things like that. Which leads people to investigate further

2- He may have been low profile but (assuming they can monitor everything) they started seeing an increase in popularity

3- You have figures like Alex Jones, but nobody takes them seriously. Maybe he was a person smart, charismatic enough etc to be a REAL leader.

4- I have no idea who he is, his works or whatever, I'm in a conspiracy theory subreddit making a conspiracy theory. No need to downvote.

While not required, you are requested to use the NP domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

They calculated a higher chance of exposure had he remained alive so they figured they'd get rid of him in anticipation of his future actions to expose them.
They knew full well it would look suspicious but the benefits of silence out weighed the risk to them.
Most people don't threaten a plot like that but this man could have brought them down.

Same with hastings. It was so obvious they killed him, but they wanted it to be obvious.... its them sending a message that they can get away with it

we are so authoritarian and fascist its ridiculous. the icing on the cake is that people keep spouting and believing the freedum nonsense. much of the population is anti-education, which blows my mind.

The key to control is not letting people know that they are controlled.

But we have elections!

IF YOU DON'T VOTE, YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN

#momsForVoting

If you don't vote, it's not your fault. You didn't vote for an asshole, so it's not your fault. You didn't fail to build enough support for your chosen candidate, so it's not your fault.

If you vote...well you still didn't have anything to do with it, and it's not really your fault either. The President doesn't really do anything and the intelligence agencies aren't required to tell Congress what they're doing. Go figure.

I think my favorite part is the whole Continuity of Government program, in which FEMA has the authority to declare a national emergency and a CoG scenario and once FEMA makes the declaration then the Executive branch of the U.S. government is folded into FEMA, while the Legislative and Judicial branches are removed of their authority and dissolved, and because of that neither branch is permitted to question or investigate the CoG programs because if CoG became a reality they don't exist anyways.

• spell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxsQ7jJJcEA

“The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater.” -Zappa

word.

lol

Didn't the same thing happen with Adam Lanza's and James Holmes' fathers? Both were testifying to the U.S. Senate about the LIBOR scandal and after each successive shooting their subpoenas were revoked by federal judges?

Y u so late to reply

I took a break from Reddit and others while job hunting.

lol

sooo late

I mean, it can be so consuming.

No one will know what hastings knew except mayb wiki leaks, and that's their ace up the sleeve

its 95% likelyhood that hastings was assassinated. car was hacked and it had explosives in it . he might not even have been in the car too

Yea he could be getting tourted right now. You never know

hastings was onto obama's treasonous swap for bergdahl, the deserter. staged event.

The best way to prevent exposure is to kill a guy after he has written two books in a particularly gruesome and newsworthy way?

It's not like he just disappeared. He and his children died. This is quite possibly the worst possible way to murder someone possible if you wish to limit exposure.

[deleted]

Or maybe there was something else he was on to, that could potentially be more vital.

Exactly...

"Them"

Meaning more than 1. Didn't think that needed to be said...

CIA/Mossad/Israel/NWO/Zionists/Rothschilds/Jews you name it.

Didn't even mention bankers .

isn't that implicit when I said NWO/Zionists/Rothschilds/Jews hehe?

you didnt mention the fed or the word banking system, most dont know the rothschilds connections to it. and why mention jews? why not just stay with zionists?

Because this whole mess is an ancient Jewish plan millennia old that was concocted long before the word "Zionist" came into usage. The plan for world domination is in the Hebrew Bible. Now of course it has always been a minority of Jewry that have really understood and promoted this plan and still today hold the keys, but the vast majority of your average Jews have been trained from birth to hold the same anti-"Gentile" views expressed by the leadership, and are perfectly willing to assist the leadership in achieving their ancient plan against the rest of the human race. It's why it's so easy for them to find crisis actors and shills amongst the Jews. So Jews collectively share some guilt but the vast majority cannot really be blamed, as they are a product of their upbringing. Much like Christian Zionists who have been brainwashed by Judeo-Christianity into helping to doom their own children, Jews have been brainwashed into hating the rest of us through things like the Holocaust (TM) and the idea that non-Jews complain about Jews for no real reason (anti-semitism). I can't really blame your average Jew who is nothing but a pawn just like I cannot blame your average "Gentile" who is also nothing but a pawn. It's the "elders" who are to blame. On the other hand, the rest of us are to blame for letting it happen, Jew or not Jew. Most people just don't care about the truth and thus they do nothing against true evil.

obvious troll to make us look bad ^{^}

Looks don't matter when the truth is at stake. That the Hebrew Bible details an ancient plan of Jewish world domination over the so-called "Gentiles" is a fact. Milk and honey baby.

An example is that it was Jewish doctors at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center who were so very happy to treat Dzhokhar Tsarnaev's throat so he was unable to speak out about his being framed. It takes a very hateful, clannish upbringing to be able to do such things with no remorse in order to assist the Jewish plan.

"That" guy.

Balls placed menacingly on the table.

Which is exactly what they did with JFK Jr. Jr would be president right now.

[deleted]

Auto correct on phone did that. I didn't know I had to go over every mistyped word on posts to appease fools. Wait. I don't have to and don't care.

People get grammar boners from jumping in any and every spelling mistake on reddit. They are the people who would follow you to continue a argument when you walk away to avoid it.

a argument

an argument.

That would be the boner he was talking about.

Muphry's Law Strikes Again!

That guy is just a total knob. Going through his history shows what a 'top mind' he is. Fantasy football, nfl etc just your average mainstream fox/CNN/NBC believer. Disregard his words. You were absolutely correct when you labeled him.

Not sure why I'm being down voted. I'm talking about /u/getabsolutelyfucked

Hahaha hahaha Hahahahahhahahahahahahahabha another top mind right here folks.

"not sure why I'm getting downvoted. I said something idiotic about someone who disagrees with us and likes football. Smart people don't watch football herp da derp! Shouldn't we be down voting him and upvoting me? Why aren't you guys backing me up? Wahhhh my upvotes"

Bahahaha look who's in here checking all the comments to see if he's got any bites! Bahahahaha you are a sad cunt

Usually when I write comments, I keep up the conversation that follows. Such a sad cunt I am.

Pretty much.

So its absolutely impossible someone didn't break in and then kill them each?

And how do so many of you people seem to know hitman etiquette, tendencies, and rules? Like from reading an article you can dissect a crime scene.

If this guy wasn't a conspiracy theorist would this be just another murder?

It doesn't matter, in this subreddit will think any negative event is caused by the government or evil corporations.

Crazy guy kills himself? Assassination. Crazy guy shoots up a school? Faked. Crazy guys plant a bomb at marathon? Never happened. 9/11? Jews did it. Crappy submition reached the top of /r/conspiracy? Troll attack to make the subreddit look stupid. My comment was downvoted? Shills.

yes...it's the conspiracy subreddit. walk into a forest and be surprised by the volume of trees.

I think the problem is that there are real conspiracies out there that have strong and compelling evidence. Then there are forums like these, where every incident that could possibly be interpreted as some sort of conspiracy, is. It's like as soon as any event in the news happens, people go "conspiracy! false flag!" and then they only bother to look for evidence after the fact.

It's actually been talked about extensively, such as the leaks/cables that highlighted specific techniques used to discredit (misinform, and manipulate) social discourse in forums like ours. Getting people to associate conspiracy theories (evidence-based) with wacko reactionary conspiracies is an age-old strategy. Leading /r/conspitard members even got caught planting anti-judaism and racist comments so they could say, 'see, they are all racist'.

Before people say, 'but it is evidence-based that Jews control this or that'. Yes, sub-groups are involved in conspiracies. But these strategies perpetuate 'us versus them' by ignoring other subgroups that are just as involved in the conspiracies, like the fact the entire military industrial complex is owned and controlled by Christians. Guess what, 'right-handed people' control the world too! Of course this is a silly statement, but that's what it looks like when we perpetuate racism using generalizations, rather then focus on the 'true' other that is controlling the masses, e.g., 'the elites', which cross ethnic lines and existing in different shapes and forms in all societies. The difference is 'power' based, or 'class' based, and they are trying their hardest to ensure no one pays attention to this.

Another common example is to say it is 'lizard-men' instead of, you know, powerful generations-strong monied elites.

/r/actualconspiracies

That's exactly what the government would say....

So you think whoever planted bombs at the marathon weren't crazy?

Most of the officially provided stories of these events are conspiracy theories.

there were no bombs at the marathon--it was fireworks and make-up.

Well, we need to look at the facts of the case. By no accounts was this guy crazy. Also, he put one bullet in each of their heads? That seems pretty hard for an ordinary person to do, unless they were asleep. Even then, the other kid would have woken up from the first gunshot.

We don't know what happened, but this is on this subreddit because the whole thing STINKS

You misspelled "submission". I can't accept logic from a person who couldn't be bothered to learn to spell correctly. Don't blame it on auto correct.

That's the point of the subreddit, connect dots and question everything. You act surprised... so why are you here?

Not everything was faked or is a huge conspiracy. Some things actually happen.

Yes, and some things are faked and are huge conspiracies.

The entire point of this subreddit find and discuss them.

Except this subreddit tends more towards "EVERYTHING is a fake/conspiracy" than towards actual skepticism.

Hey, welcome to the conspiracy subreddit, where we don't post about conspiracies....? wait..

What the fuck do you expect to find here? Posts about events that aren't suspected conspiracies?

Posters here talk a good game of questioning things, but most of the threads are horrific back-slapping circlejerks that really belong on /r/iamverysmart.

Lots of people actually asking questions get the JIDF/shill name thrown at them.

Of course there's still good stuff here, less and less as time goes by though.

I've been called a JIDF shill before here and in other subs. People just can't understand that other people have different views than they do, and they aren't influenced or payed to have them.

So? It's a conspiracy subreddit, of course people are going to present them as conspiracies and others are gonna jump on it and agree, it's up to you to weigh the facts and see what you think yourself.

Except nothing is being questioned. Baseless assumptions are being made with little to no proof. That's the problem. Even if it was a triple murder and not the proposed murder suicide, there still isn't any proof beyond a shitty, incredibly minor motive.

It's up to you to question it. This subreddit presents them as conspiracies because it's a fucking conspiracy subreddit, you don't have to blindly follow what people say here, you can take the information and question it yourself.

yes

for real; this isn't /r/HEAS; use your own brain, I'm not here to get you to agree with something

The community also makes up a subreddit not the post. And 99% of the time it's idiots not questioning anything and accepting it simply on face value.

The point of the subreddit is not to question everything and connect the dots (though that's part of it...) its to seek the truth using a very particular framework:

Conspiracy = a secret action or plan between one or more parties to break the law or cause harm.

Theory = a cohesive and testable explanation or model based on reason, observation, and analysis which adequately describes a phenomenon using the totality of available evidence.

Here at /r/conspiracy, y'all are real good at the conspiracies but not so great at the theories. Every once in a while something intriguing pops up - which is why I stay subscribed - but most of the time its junk and the interesting stuff winds up at /r/actualconspiracies or /r/skeptic after it passes through here.

The biggest problem is that this sub defaults to tin-foil-hat theories and rather than changing the theory when asked a tough question, they just dismiss the tough question as shilling and return to the circlejerk.

What evidence from the scene was used to make the determination that its a murder suicide as opposed to outside party execution? If we've got two plausible theories then the simpler will usually be true (Occam's Razor) and/or the one that attributes more to chance and incompetence than deliberate malevolence will usually be true (Hanlon's Razor.)

If a claim is made that its an outside party execution, then an extraordinary claim like that would require extraordinary evidence. Are there signs of forced entry? A weapon that did not belong to one of the victims? Residues or ballistics that are inconsistent with the narrative? Extra fingerprints? Video surveillance tapes from down the street that show a black helicopter landing in his back yard? When you look at it against the police report that another user (edit: /u/thinkmorebetterer) posted, there's just not enough evidence for a hit in the face of overwhelming evidence of a murder-suicide.

Well there you go, you've looked into it and you've posted links supporting your claim, on this subreddit.

Would you have done it if not for this argument? If yes, great, good work. If not, maybe people like you not posting this is part of the problem you talk of?

It comes and goes in phases. Every once in a while its encouraging, but for every time you try, half of them will be "SHILL!" etc. Some topics feel untouchable just because of the sheer level of tin-foil I try to keep an open mind, but not so open my brains might fall out. If I can change the mind of just one person per post it feels like its worth it, but some topics its not even worth trying.

You honestly think you change anybodies mind? I find the wackier the conspiracy (and so the more someone's mind needs challenging) the less receptive they are. Moon landing hoaxers are some of the worst.

Look they are on wires!

That's called an antennae...

Government NASA shill! Explain how they got there with the van allen belt then.

It's been proven by scientists that levels of radiation were low enough.

Yeah, shill scientists funded by the government.

That's the problem...I often doubt that I could change anyone's mind. This sub is full of "keep an open mind" reminders, but if you make any reasonable comments or question the tinfoil-hat narrative, you're being closed minded. It's silly.

I'm sorry I'll just add that none of what you've said makes it more likely to be a murder suicide than an outside party... How is that the simpler theory? And you could obviously ask just as many questions about a murder-suicide theory as you've proposed about an outside party execution.

So after all that, you really still think that a hit is at least an equally likely explanation based on the available information and using the fewest and simplest possible assumptions?

Theory A: guy had marital problems, debt, and bipolar disorder. He bought a gun and ammo, whacked his kids and dog in their sleep, then killed himself in a murder-suicide.

Theory B: the government creates a body double to buy a gun and ammunition and plant it in his house, the government conspired with his wife to get her to divorce him and used manipulation to convince him to run up unsustainable debts so it would look like he had motive, the gov sent in an agent to infiltrate the house with no signs of forced entry, executed the kids and dog in their sleep using the gun and ammo the body double planted, and then killed the subject in a position consistent with suicide. All of that with zero evidence of struggle or forensic evidence that there had been an outside party present while the conspiracy was organized after he published books exposing fringe theories about 9/11 that were not particularly well recieved.

Which one makes fewer and simpler assumptions to fit the available data? You can decide for yourself, but I know where I stand.

Because saying stuff like that isn't being skeptic and questioning anything, it's just being a sheep to the accepted alternative.

Because its on my hotpage and I thought the comments were funny. You guys seem to "question everything" except your own beliefs and bias.

I remember when this happened. It was passed off as a murder suicide. So now, do you believe that? That this man put a bullet in each family members head (including the dog), then his own?

So, it's absolutely impossible that he didn't kill himself and his family?

The only reason people are assuming it is a murder is because it was a conspiracy theorist.

This thread was posted a year ago and had the similar top comments.

/r/metaconspiracy

So it is a coincidence or not. If a coincidence, that is that. If not, and it is intentional and meant to influence people's thoughts or actions - the question becomes what influence is it supposed to impart?

Or a community is insanely predictable.

"Downvoted by bots" yeah fucking right.

He probably executed his family and committed suicide. You know, because he was mentally ill.

You are obviously a Bot

No. You are the bot.

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiratard] Truther kills himself and family. /r/conspiracy mourns losing one of their own. j/k they debate which three letter agency whacked him.

• [/r/botsrights] 9/11 Truther Makes Baseless Accusations About Bot Complicity in Alleged Reddit Censorship

• [/r/conspiratard] "9/11 Conspiracy Theorist, Family, Dog Found all With One Bullet in Head. This Will be Downvoted by Bots." Bots appear to have downvoted it all the way to the top of /r/conspiracy.

^{If you follow any of the above links, respect the rules of reddit and don't vote or comment. Questions? Abuse? Message me here.}

It's just the introduction to the Opposite Sketches.

While not required, you are requested to use the NP domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Bot on bot violence.

When will it end

Gary Webb "suicide" with two bullets to the head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb#Aftermath_and_death

On December 10, 2004, Gary Webb was found dead from two gunshot wounds to the head.[36] Sacramento County coroner Robert Lyons ruled that it was suicide, noting that a suicide note was found at the scene.[36]

huh, so he shot himself in the head twice?

You can shoot yourself in the head right up until you actually die and the first shot does not always kill you right away. That is what happens on tv or on conspiracy websites.

death spasms never cause the finger to contract (again)...wait...wait...shit

Those kinds of things do happen: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_gunshot_suicide

I think that there's such a big conspiracy element to his downfall during his life that tacking on the conspiracy about his death only serves to discredit the former part. It's weird that there were two gun shots but you have to assume the first would be non-fatal and the secon would be fatal right? Two fatal gun shots makes no sense in either case (suicide or assassination). Then it would seem that the double gunshots add less information then it would seem at first glance. It also doesn't make sense to kill him years after the fact. That's just my tale at least.

John B Wells interviewed Phillip Marshall on Cost to Coast AM not long before the murder/suicide. After hearing his interview it's hard for me to believe that he did it, but you never really know.

Weren't we all surprised when Robin Williams killed himself?

With many mental illnesses you can easily project a front to people that looks and sounds fine, even happy and optimistic. Just because he sounded one way for an interview doesn't really mean anything.

Just something for you to consider.

Ha! This shill actually believes that Robin Williams killed himself! /s

I've had friends commit suicide. If there was always some easily detectable outward signs then I suspect they'd still be with us.

Unfortunately it's seldom that simple. Obviously there are people who seem stereotypically 'suicidal' but many seem completely normal, outwardly, until they actually take their lives.

Mental illness can be a horrible thing, and it's a tragedy that it gets so stigmatised that people are afraid to seek help.

What are you doing on here with talk like that? Are you some normal person who just wandered in looking for fashion tips or borscht recipes? We are going to have to send for the exorcist.

Nah, I come here almost solely for the purpose of injecting a less conspiratorial perspective. Usually I just get ignored, sometimes I get called a shill and occasionally it becomes a productive discussion.

I believe everything except the last part. This place is a zoo.

Cheers

I lived by this guy and his kids. We heard no gunshots. The place had people there for months. First local deputies and whatnot, then guys in suits.

pics or it didn't happen (next door to you)

I would, except I was renting and moved about a two years ago. Idk what information they provided, but I can give some information that isn't widely known about him.

Do that. I am interested in this story. I think he and his kids were murdered. The wife seems to keep a low profile. Has not said much.

Well I know they were divorced. She was working overseas when it happened.

His wife is a robot.

The report addresses the fact neighbours didn't hear gunshots. Tests conducted by investigators resulted in a sound level of only about 50dB from outside the house. Very easy to miss.

I don't read links.. I actually didn't read much that was published about the whole incident. The whole community was very upset about the kids though. It resonated for a long time.

Further info. They debate if it was a murder/suicide or black ops. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVWEEXEjW90

This subreddit is like watching day-time television.

If "black ops" is a thing, sign me up now.

Black Ops is indeed a thing:

A black operation or black op is a covert operation by a government, a government agency, or a military organization. This can include activities by private companies or groups. Key features of a black operation are that it is clandestine, it has negative overtones, and it is not attributable to the organization carrying it out.[1] The main difference between a black operation and one that is merely clandestine is that a black operation involves a significant degree of deception, to conceal who is behind it or to make it appear that some other entity is responsible ("false flag" operations).[2][3]

...

Examples of black operations

In 2007 the Central Intelligence Agency declassified secret records detailing illegal domestic surveillance, assassination plots, kidnapping, and infiltration and penetration of other "black" operations undertaken by the CIA from the 1950s to the early 1970s. CIA Director General Michael Hayden explained why he released the documents, saying that they provided a "glimpse of a very different time and a very different agency".[9]

In May 2007 ABC News, and later the Daily Telegraph, reported that United States president George W. Bush had authorized the CIA to undertake "black operations" in Iran in order to promote regime change as well as to sabotage Iran's nuclear program.[10][11] ABC News was subsequently criticized for reporting the secret operation, with 2008 presidential candidate Mitt Romney saying he was "shocked to see the ABC News report regarding covert action in Iran," but ABC said the CIA and the Bush Administration knew of their plans to publish the information and raised no objections.[12]

Black operations have always been a thing. The CIA, FBI, and military special forces are the ones who typically do black ops. It's just an operation that didn't happen on paper, will be denied by everyone involved, and is illegal.

legalized murder.

I mean if you are going to try and bandwagon at least don't fail and make yourself look retarded.

We are now more than ever helpless...free thinking open minded people have no voice in this society, no matter how hard the evidence for conspiracies (facts) are presented. The people are brain washed and the elite have learnt from their predecessor's, capitalism has taken its toll. Looking back into history revolutions are completely necessary and plausible, now it seems only possible if people are thrown into slavery like conditions, which will not happen until the ruling class has total control through globalization and technology. Governments are fast taking rights away from the people and the majority don't even bat an eyelid, we just wait for someone else to take action.

We need an awareness campaign targeting the (simple minded) unaware majority. This must be filled with hard presentable facts and reason behind how things are getting worse and how the system and people in charge need to be overthrown...A collective effort into an awareness video entailing how fucked things are and how a collective action needs to be taken now. It is becoming worse as their influence and control is increasing it is imperative for us to take action collectively.

We can't wait, the struggle is getting worse and worse and it is up to us the free thinkers to collaborate in order to aware the masses and create positive change.

The problem is that there are true conspiracy theories and then there are planted, bullshit ones. That way conspiracy theories become a "boy cried wolf" scenario where all us brainwashed people do not correctly respond to the theories that actually make sense. It's terrible.

If you believe some of the shills below me do you really believe that a free thinking intelligent conspiracy theorist speaking out (about the possible truth) would kill his kids and dog...well fuck. I really hope some intelligent fucks (not myself) can collaborate and find a way to educate the masses.

Estranged wife travelling abroad at the time? Perfect time to hire a hitman to kill your ex husband.

Edit: /r/conspiracy has spoken. If your conspiracy doesn't involve the government, you will be downvoted.

And dog. And two kids. I don't think so. You have to be a special kind of person to do a dog and two kids.

Like the kind of person who would kill complete strangers for money?

FOR MONEY is the key. Someone had to pay to have the two kids and dog killed. Hitmen don't kill kids and dogs for fun(each hit costs money).

[deleted]

Because the dog would have freaked out barking at intruders. The kids were found in sleeping positions on sofas in the same room- as if neither woke up before being shot.

[deleted]

Oh. Right. Carry on.

They were loaded up with drugs and alcohol, enough to incapacitate drug and alcohol-naive kids of 14 and 17.

The sheriff's report on the deaths is pretty convincing, really. It was linked above.

To make it clear to other people who had his information/views. We'll kill you. We'll kill your family. We'll kill your dog. Its just a scare tactic, like in Scarface with the dead horse.

Hate to be that guy, but Godfather was the movie with the dead horse. Scarface was warned by the informant being hung by the neck from the helicopter.

/u/devils32391 confirmed as a disinfo agent.

confirmed? Ok, where the proof?

Hm, no proof of something "confirmed" one month later? Ill keep[ waiting for the confirmation, lol! People throw the word "confirmed" around way too much. Especially the paid shills.

Wow, you fucked that reference up pretty bad. Don't you look stupid now?

I'VE SEEN MOVIES WITH HITMEN IN THEM, THEREFORE, I AM AN EXPERT ON HITMEN!

I SAID SOMETHING SARCASTIC, THEREFORE THE PERSON I AM TALKING ABOUT MUST BE WRONG!

Well it was either a murder-suicide or a hitman (or just random thug assholes I guess that's possible). Whether it was a government hitman or a wife hired hitman we don't know. Both are probably equally likely to kill dogs.

http://i.imgur.com/vqMOTbo.gif

Dog is my worry

Lol. There are now more f'n anti-conspiracy people in this subrreddit than people who actually believe in conspiracies. Wow, how the great have fallen. They should rename the subreddit. Suggestions?

Surely being a conspiracy theorist doesn't require belief in anything and everything claiming to be a conspiracy? Isn't skepticism desirable?

I remember when this happened. It seemed pretty obvious to me that it was a murder.

Same here. I would have liked more publicity/interest in this case.

I dont know, the book came out anyway. And honestly on the surface it doesnt seem like anything that is/was going to change someone's mind.

The forth book? It was the second book that I think they were concerned about.

in so cal--worldcat shows the nearest available book is in arizona.

It's too bad we don't have some way of ordering stuff and having it shipped to your door.

Please do. thank you for your generosity!

I have no interest in it. It seems you do but are mad that it isn't available at your local bookseller. I am merely pointing out you have recourse. You can order that shit yourself if you want it.

oh, of course. i've seen it on amazon. I am a college professor and one of my students was researching and looking for that exact book to do an inter-library loan. Was surprised the closest was so far is all.

Can purchase definitely. Cheers!

Interesting. What subject do you teach?

All they would accomplish by assassinating him is making him look more valid through assassination. His theories and ideas are already out in the public, they have nothing to gain by killing him. They only have his image to empower. Simply put, its silly to think that he was off'd for who he was.

That sounds exactly like something "they" would say.. Reverse psychology of sorts.

I'll be keeping a close eye on you from now on..

I can't honestly tell if you're being serious.

I think you're on to something...maybe. Wouldn't want to be fooled.

Since this won't get a lot of coverage in the national media, but will be noticed by truthers; I think it serves to instill fear. This is the equivalent of holding a gun to somebody that only the person with the gun and the person having the gun held against him know about.

fair enough. Not a bad theory. Scare the other ones out of coming forward. But still, its a bit late isn't it? And its not like truth-ism is gaining momentum.

I don't know why people even say this will be downloaded by bots or shills. Discredits whatever you are trying to say, if it doesn't happen, no comment, or the truth is stronger than a lie. It's part of why I can't take any of this seriously anymore.

I would never of even heard of this guy if not for this. Behold the Streisand Effect.

Streisand Effect Confirmation Complete or (SECc)

If it was the government, how do we even have a police report? Why didn't the FBI just have the report destroyed/not even written?

Well the idea would be that the police report be massaged to cover up the truth. A report that debunks the conspiracy is way better than a lack of report (which would then be seen as confirmation of the conspiracy).

Wait.... so they murdered him after he exposed everyone? Don't people usually get murdered before they expose the conspirators? This just looks like a steaming pile of horse shit that should be on conspiratard.

What are some of the more interesting things he's said? And is there a way to view the Wikipedia audit log?

Here's their deletion log. Phillip Marshall brings up no hits.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete

Does OP have any proof that this guy ever had a Wikipedia entry?

Wayback?

I am out of time for tonight... but someone should make a Wikipedia page and quote an actual news site (e.g. this one: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2275258/Phillip-Marshall-Former-airline-pilot-conspiracy-theorist-shot-dead-teenage-children-dog-turning-gun-himself.html) - try to keep it as unbiased as short as possible and don't mention any questions about his death...

Then see if it gets deleted...!

Daily Mail isn't really a legitimate news site. It's like US magazine.

This is the same news agency that reports on two headed sasquatches.

suicide is such a convenient word. They accused my friend Shane Todd of suicide as well when the Chinese killed him in Singapore. The World is a dangerous place for rebels and patriots.

http://www.reddit.com/r/CrazyIdeas/comments/2kg5rh/start_assassinating_conspiracy_theorists/

While not required, you are requested to use the NP domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

The dog and the fact that the neighbors didn't hear shots are the smoking gun. Agent comes in with silenced pistol, dog sees him and he is forced to shoot, so the barking doesn't arouse the family or alert neighbors.

That's the ticket!!! Write a book QUICK before somebody finds out he was crazy and depressed and mad at his ex!!!!! There is money to be made but only if you act fast.

Why are you even in this thread/sub? Sure him being depressed would be an likely answer in the news sub, but this sub is designed to entertain conspiracy theories.

Hall monitor? Not looney enough for ya?

What the hell are you talking about?

I don't think he is in it for the money.

He was not crazy or mad at his ex. He and his kids were snuffed.

If he wasnt crazy, why was he on crazy meds? If he wasnt mad at his ex, why are they estranged?

And the dog. Don't forget the dog. I was killed by the Illuminati/Lizard People once but it wore off. You had better be careful because if they are going to go around snuffing relatively unknown folks like him it is probable that you are next. He worked in aviation like I did, for many years but never thought to say anything about them chem trails. Ain't that remarkably suspicious!

Writes book about how it was Bush and Cheney's fault....Killed by Obama and Biden to shut him up.

He was on a medication known to cause suicidal and homicidal ideation and has been implicated in many murder-suicides (go here: http://ssristories.org/old/index1.php?sort=drug and scroll down for Wellbutrin).

It may be that his doctor prescribed too much and it may be that someone induced him/her to do this because this guy was "too close to the truth," but the real conspiracy are these medications causing murder-suicides in your very town, this month, and no one is talking about it. Just passing off homilies about depression and guns while innocent kids and spouses and dogs are being killed due to unchecked medical malfeasance.

I think I remember reading somewhere that he shot himself with the wrong hand. (right hand and he was left handed -- or vice versa). There were a number of odd things about the circumstances -- supposedly he was upset about breaking up with his wife -- except they had been separated for several years. His publisher thought circumstances were strange and he was about to release a new book. I am pretty sure they did him in. I am glad people are not forgetting about this.

(right hand and he was left handed -- or vice versa)

Now that's conclusive for something that happened more than a year ago.

bot.Downvote=100100100101

amazed they havn't taken out more really those people have no soul

Their religion is about cutting oneself off from soul.

love conquers all that.

stay in loving mode and you are connected to the universe, but once you shut it off you become disconnected and form a separate reality.

that simple, my friend.

i know, but we as a species are parasited into disconnection from the overall love.

i hear you though, friend.

Philip Marshall was a CIA pilot in the '80s.

Proof?

http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/02/28/philip-marshall-murder-suicide-a-lack-of-evidence/

Good thing you don't meet the criteria for assassination. Lucky break there OP.

Gets into a fatal car accident in a few years.

"OP knew too much! The CIA took him out. They even deleted his wikipedia page (which he never had to begin with)!"

Facts supporting this theory would be under inflated tire at the scene and neglected brake pads.

Black Bag 101: When staging a suicide, do it while the target is at home with witnesses. If they become actual witnesses, go to plan B.

wouldnt want the dog saying the wrong thing in court

Most likely suicide by the angle, and yet, there could still be something here. Maybe he did this to spare his family from something worse. Imprisonement, torture, or something else. He even killed his dog.

"They" even killed his dog.

Fixed.

"This will be downvoted by bots" with over 1k+ karma...

This will be downvoted by bots rational people.

FTFY. Mentally ill man found dead, who was far gone enough he thought a government coverup of this scale would be possible without one of the THOUSANDS of people that would have to be in on it coming forward, and there's no possible way he killed them and then himself.

Y'all know that suicide gunshot wounds leave powder stippling on the hands, and a distinctive gunshot wound, right? When the cops say murder-suicide, there's forensics there.

I swear, for all of the "normal people have their head in the sand" that gets tossed around here, this sub can be pretty damn dense.

The gun was put in the wrong hand. The explanations for the suucide did not make sense. His new book was almost finished. Even his publisher thought there was something strange happening.

This happened quite a while ago. The "gun was in the wrong hand"? I can operate a pistol with either hand without difficulty. It is very sad that this tragedy occurred but stuff like this happens with depressing regularity. It is more of a firearms and mental health issue than anything else...but that is rather mundane and doesn't make me feel special at all.

A man and his family get murdered but you just can't help but think its a conspiracy, because he's a 9/11 conspiracy theorist? So, is that your earth shattering proof that we've been waiting all these years for?

I think you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone who isn't a borderline psychotic. If this is what happened to people, explain to me how Alex Jones is still alive. Explain to me why conspiracy theorists aren't dropping like flies. If the government was into some conspiracy, they would be immensely stupid to kill anyone calling them out, as that would be an admission of guilt.

The circumstances of his death were suspicious and he was about to come out with a new book which seems to have disappeared. If you read the news reports around the time of his death there are good reasons to ask questions.

So what you're saying is, you don't know for sure.

They don't have to kill anybody because everybody was hypnotised by chem trails to believe that they were doing something else when all the 911 events happened. That's what happened. We are lucky that totally obscure people like this are willing to speak up and get murdered to death by the government for their efforts

He could have done it because he found out it wasn't a conspiracy and wanted to make it look suspicious. Would the US government make it this obvious?

sites.google.com/site/911whistleblowersilenced

9/11 is stupidly obvious so yes, yes they would

Wouldn't he not be on Wikipedia simply because he's not notable?

It's not a dumping ground for every person's life story.

9/11 was perpetrated by Zionists in order to dupe the U.S. into invading Israel's enemies in the Middle East!

I was targeted by the "Justice" Department and sentenced to 9 years in federal prison after I vociferously disseminated my belief immediately after 9/11!

You can read my account of it at sites.google.com/site/911whistleblowersilenced.

Just heard about this today for the first time. Interesting connections.

Fuck, well now it basically confirms EVERYTHING hes said..... idiots

Conspiracy Theory just sounds like such a childish term, dont you agree?

How about conspiratard?

The only tard in the room is you.

It is really quite funny that you should say that.

I think that conspiracy theorists faked the deaths in a false flag operation to make people mistrust the government. Wake up sheeple. Do the research.

Unfortunately nearly all C.T's come down to the same thing...unless you were actually there to witness what ever it is thats in dispute you will never be 100% sure of what actually happened....evidence can be planted, lies told, bizarre accidents happen etc etc

Readers of this post might enjoy this fictional take on a subject on everyone’s mind today: Jihad in America travels on the wind. Can the government, dodgy as it is, possibly stand up to a real attack? While a nuclear terrorist attack is unlikely, in a bioterror epidemic, the genetically engineered plague is invisible. Our borders are vulnerable, and metal detectors are useless, even as ISIS, the Islamic State, raises its menacing black flag in Syria and Iraq. What if the government is helpless, gridlocked in perpetual party conflict and rancor?

BEYOND TERRORISM: SURVIVAL is the fictional story of two unlikely strangers who found a way to survive the apocalypse, the most deadly terrorist attack in history. Read a sample on my website: http://www.sanmiguelallendebooks.com/beyondterrorism.html

In reality, they're just making it worse for themselves. Showing their fear. It's on the edge and they are working hard. Truth is freedom.

According to Santa Barbara View, Philip Marshall's book accused the Bush administration of being in cahoots with the Saudi intelligence community .. he said “a coordinated training operation prepared the hijackers to fly heavy commercial airliners."

The Bush / Saudi connection is total bullsh*t, his intelligence minders were Jews not Saudis.

As well there were no hijackers, since the planes that struck the WTC Towers were flown by remote control, using technology developed by Bush's one time "Senior Foreign Policy Advisor" Rabbi Dov Zakheim, who stole 2.3 trillion dollar$ while Comptroller at the Pentagon!

Airplane homing beacons had been installed in the offices of Kroll Associates in both towers, by one time WTC Security Chief and co conspirator Jerome Hauer, who began the OBL did it myth in an interview with Dan Rather at CBS in New York on the morning of the attacks!

So for whatever reason Philip Marshall his two kids and his dog finished up dead on February 6, 2013, it was not because of 911 truth since his 911 input was total bullsh*t, that avoided the issue of Jewish culpability!

In terms of "remote control," I believe flight 93 landed in Cincinnati and mid-flight, the planes were swapped with military drones.

I believe the whole airplane drama was just cover for the controlled demolitions of the towers. A missile hit the pentagon. Usama was murdered in 2001. For 9/11, Silverstein knew, Cheney knew, Rumsfeld was in on it.....

You have a pretty good handle on it all dude .. KUTGW :)

Hero.

[deleted]

Did you not know that the Cabal own reddit and they are hunting down and murdering all the redditors who are "in the know" about stuff like this? Why did they not inform you of this if you know all their other secrets that nobody else knows except you? I think you are one of the next ones up. They know where you are and they know everything you do. There are only a few non-sheeple in the country secretly running the resistance from their mother's basements while they are waiting for that assistant manager job at Burger King to open up again.

I hope one day to have a reptilian girlfriend so I can play with her three boobs all day long.

More to enjoy!

Reptiles don't have boobs at all. I know that because...you know...

[deleted]

By saying no offense before a statement doesn't get you off the hook for saying anything. No offense, but your mother was a horse-fucker. See?

Bless your heart works the same way, i.e. "Well isn't that the ugliest baby, well bless her heart "

Isn't that why people browse this sub in the first place?

some crack pot conspiracy shit

You're in the wrong sub with that statement buddy.

This Guy's Name is Wiped from Wikipedia.

This is more Orwellian than anything I've read in a week. And I'm a conspifag nutjob.

Philip Marshall

LOL you fucker. October 16, 2013.

sheeple

FUCK

Sadly, this will be whitewashed into the memory hole.

The memory hole blog is both awesome and informative, I'd totally recommend!

Probably, but I am glad to see it here. It happened a year+ ago. I thought it was forgotten I found this case very bothersome and I do not believe it was a suicide. Why would they spend so much tie going through his house?

I'm reading his last book right now. Very compelling.

Doubt he was offed by big brother, they profit too much from these conspiracies.

How?

It's part of a media industry, makes $$$$$$$.

RACHEL QUIGLEY: your credibility is 100% lost after this farce of an article

It was a murder suicide. We know that he was a conspiracy theorist so that right there gives us an idea of his mental state.

You will do really good at the FEMA camps.

When you say "we" you mean "you". Right?

Guys, it was obviously a murder suicide- he had bullet wound to the back of his head, a knife in his back, and ran himself over with his car.

You people and your crazy ideas.

Why don't you guys accept that god just does these things to fuck with you?

Murder suicide? Really? They think we can easily believe that bullshit?

This guy was mentally ill and you all supported his crazy theories without question. Now he killed his whole family. Good job I guess.

Do not fucking underestimate what lengths these people will go to. They control the Globe, you and your loved-ones are NOTHING to them.

Auto correct on phone did that. I didn't know I had to go over every mistyped word on posts to appease fools. Wait. I don't have to and don't care.

confirmed? Ok, where the proof?

You honestly think you change anybodies mind? I find the wackier the conspiracy (and so the more someone's mind needs challenging) the less receptive they are. Moon landing hoaxers are some of the worst.

Look they are on wires!

That's called an antennae...

Government NASA shill! Explain how they got there with the van allen belt then.

It's been proven by scientists that levels of radiation were low enough.

Yeah, shill scientists funded by the government.

The key to control is not letting people know that they are controlled.

http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/02/28/philip-marshall-murder-suicide-a-lack-of-evidence/

inb4 we're /r/conspiratard's

So after all that, you really still think that a hit is at least an equally likely explanation based on the available information and using the fewest and simplest possible assumptions?

Theory A: guy had marital problems, debt, and bipolar disorder. He bought a gun and ammo, whacked his kids and dog in their sleep, then killed himself in a murder-suicide.

Theory B: the government creates a body double to buy a gun and ammunition and plant it in his house, the government conspired with his wife to get her to divorce him and used manipulation to convince him to run up unsustainable debts so it would look like he had motive, the gov sent in an agent to infiltrate the house with no signs of forced entry, executed the kids and dog in their sleep using the gun and ammo the body double planted, and then killed the subject in a position consistent with suicide. All of that with zero evidence of struggle or forensic evidence that there had been an outside party present while the conspiracy was organized after he published books exposing fringe theories about 9/11 that were not particularly well recieved.

Which one makes fewer and simpler assumptions to fit the available data? You can decide for yourself, but I know where I stand.

If that was true, then all the reports on 9/11 would be highly praised here.

Occam's razor is itself a blunt tool.

Often the simplest and most obvious explanation is NOT the correct one.

For example, the most obvious explanation for the shape of the Earth, is that it is flat, because that is what we can see with our eyes. It seems counter intuitive that the Earth is spherical, unless one has additional knowledge.

Edit: or take the example of whether the Earth goes around the sun, or the sun around the Earth - the simplest explanation, that was believed for thousands of years, is that the sun travels around the Earth, as do the rest of the Heavens. It took a lot of work the accumulation of a lot of knowledge to undo that simple explanation.

Occam's razor doesn't always work. It often depends on how much knowledge and information one has.

fair enough. Not a bad theory. Scare the other ones out of coming forward. But still, its a bit late isn't it? And its not like truth-ism is gaining momentum.

I think its good to be skeptical, but too often people want there to be a conspiracy when the reality is a lot less exciting.

Looks don't matter when the truth is at stake. That the Hebrew Bible details an ancient plan of Jewish world domination over the so-called "Gentiles" is a fact. Milk and honey baby.

Occam's razor would suggest him and his family were murdered. Normal, everyday people with careers and no history of mental illness or criminal acts do not murder their own children and the fucking dog.