No. Shit is scary. Definitely. However, ignorance is NEVER, EVER "bliss". It's the opposite of that. What you don't know will ALWAYS come back and bite you in the ass - and hard - sooner or later.

I strive to educate myself as much as possible - even if the things that I learn make mince meat out of what I previously thought was correct or right or true.

I would rather get killed by the truth than live a lie. Period. Simple as that.

And if it doesn't kill me? then it'll make me stronger.

Truth is the only way - even if it's frightening.

No. Shit is scary. Definitely. However, ignorance is NEVER, EVER "bliss". It's the opposite of that. What you don't know will ALWAYS come back and bite you in the ass - and hard - sooner or later.

I agree, to an extent and maybe I was hasty in my comment below. But just a quick thought experiment:

Imagine you are a cow. You have cow friends. In a farm. Wherever you're from - the weather's nice, the food is okay, and you have relatively few freedoms infringed as long as you don't run near the fence and don't ask questions when some of your buddies go missing every autumn.

Everyone seems pretty cool with it, and most live happy, cow-lives. Would you agree that they're at least content?

Now imagine you start asking questions. You start finding out what goes on beyond the fence, and you talk with your other cow-friends on whatreally happens to the people who go missing, dismissing the human's explanation if what was going on. Then you find out the truth, and you can never go back. You know you're all being controlled, that one day, you'll go missing, and nobody's gonna ask where you went or question the Official Version™.

You can never go back to eating grass and making cow-babies, can you? You're fuckin' broken, buddy, and you'll never be content again. And you envy those who keep chewin' grass. And you miss it, because when you do eat some grass, shit doesn't taste anything like it used to.

I strive to educate myself as much as possible - even if the things that I learn make mince meat out of what I previously thought was correct or right or true.

This is a remarkably important trait that you bet they are educating youngsters out of. I wonder why?

I would rather get killed by the truth than live a lie. Period. Simple as that.

And if it doesn't kill me? then it'll make me stronger.

Truth is the only way - even if it's frightening.

So, what's behind the fence?

Grass? Cows don't eat grass anymore, they eat GMO soybeans and corn.

I stand corrected. And now even more depressed.

[deleted]

Yep

You should us cannabis and other psycadelic drugs instead of big pharma for mental healing. That's why they're illegal!

Or you could like, I dunno, eat right and exercise maybe.

Why not both, fellas?

Definitely both. Psychedelic drugs are good for your mental health

I know. My main is a pharmacist.

Or you could grow some medicine...

You can never go back to eating grass and making cow-babies, can you? You're fuckin' broken, buddy, and you'll never be content again. And you envy those who keep chewin' grass. And you miss it, because when you do eat some grass, shit doesn't taste anything like it used to.

None of this, I tell everyone, then get the fuck out, and go eat grass and have babies elsewhere. I know what you are going to say, but see I'm not a cow, cows don't have alternatives like jumping over the fence, I do, and here we find the limits of your image, which is otherwise interesting, enough in fact that I'm willing to pretend to be a cow commenting on the internet and go along with the thought experiment: I definitely prefer having no descendants than leaving behind an enslaved line that could last an eternity (that's a lot of baby slave cows dude, I can tell you like yourself a lot, we all do, but don't forget to include them in your equations)... my baby cows see black and white the same way I do, they're on-board, we're attacking! Mouuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh.

It's a good thing we can still jump over the fence i tell you, but this might stop eventually, in which case i might have to resort to being a cow for real. Anyway, far from broken, we've been playing this poker game without cards for millenniums, and now not only do we have cards suddenly, but we've been dealt a fantastic hand, and we're not wasting time it seems, mainstream media is losing viewers at unprecedented rates, we managed to pull our own decentralizable worldwide currency out of our ass in only two decades (that is amazingly fast, took millenniums for these fucks not to achieve this), bankers are dying violently, people quit voting, and so on and so forth. No reason to be broken, 100 years ago sure, but not today, this is great.

I love everything here, but hope you care not misinterpreting the "broken,' comment.

I don't mean your broken, but the others would perceive you to be, and they are so lost in whose got the best grass, to whose got the biggest muscles, or the most milk, or whatever to care about things you and I think are important. Muscles and milk and grass don't really matter, and it's frustrating to not be able to snap people out of it.

You're not broken, but an extreme minority. You're goddamn right about the connectivity of our generation compared to the past, and our fences are getting smaller and we can actually see that the grass isn't always greener, and the cows over there are friendly as fuck (despite what we've been told). I say it's only a matter of time before they make bigger fences, or we hop over them for real. But they've been doing this a lot longer than you and I have been munchin' on this here grass, and I know they've been building a bigger fence. We just can't see it yet.

ah I did misunderstand then. I agree these are the only two possible outcomes, the race is set between the consequences of popular enlightenment and the deployment of the ultimate fence.

If i have to take a guess on the ultimate fence i would say the replacement of all armed forces and police with hyper connected neural network robots, and yes this technology already exists, but deployment might take a while and we're making massive leaps ourselves, time will tell...

All good buddy. I think you're thinking a little too big regarding fences.

What if you could construct a society where us cows boss each other around? And effectively rule each other through the threat of violence? Maybe a cow-police force? Then we're in business, and it's all good. If the awake cows start questioning things, they'll fight back against the cow-police (who haven't thought about the fence in years) and not those really in charge.

It's the ultimate fence I'm describing, the one i absolutely can't jump over, the one that'll make me give up hehe. Of course it's over the top, for now at least, maybe in 500 years if things go wrong they'll wish reality was as light as my exagerated description.

If the awake cows start questioning things, they'll fight back against the cow-police (who haven't thought about the fence in years) and not those really in charge.

Most likely so, and for both good and bad reasons I'm sure. Which is why i usually point towards the work of Solon in Athena, we already have a great and working solution, we just need to apply it globally such that no sparta can fuck us over again.

oh hey, it almost looks like r2d2 hehe

http://therundownlive.com/robocop-reality-robotic-police-begin-patrolling-silicon-valley/

I take it you've managed to set up a colony on another planet that's free of these particular farmers? Because otherwise 'go eat grass and have babies elsewhere' doesn't really work. Anywhere you go on this planet is controlled.

Their control is mostly mental, only direct confrontation results in physical control.

edit: perhaps you meant things like taxes, sure, that still exists unfortunately.

So, what's behind the fence?

Human beings have been trying to answer that question for as long as we've existed. Some think they've found the answer. I'm still searching myself, though I can say I have a much better idea now than I did in my "happy cow life" and I wouldn't go back if given the choice.

Your metaphors don't help your understanding here.

Becoming aware of criminality in the system, doesn't lead to disrepair, but optimism. The stuff given up isn't the will to live (cow's grass), but the stuff that you recognize as being bad (crap food and TV). Do you miss eating a twinky and watching TV, once you learn that such things are bad? More importantly, are people who give up junk food and TV bad people?

In known it's not perfect.. But I was more interested in getting people to think about things a differently for a second. I see so much in this sub that still has this 'us vs. Them' mentality, when we neglect the rest of us around us who are still content little cows. How do we get them to ask questions? Why do we? Why don't they? That's all. I think the answers to that are extremely important.

You can still be happy, that is the greatest antidote to the side-effects of finding what's past the fence. Make the choice to not let the "truth" make you bitter, because if that ever happens - they've won.

I agree. And I think it's designed this way.

I wish the other cows were smarter so when I told um what was beyond the fence we'd kill the farmer and go eat whatever we want wherever we wanted to.

Imagine you are a cow. You have cow friends. In a farm. Wherever you're from - the weather's nice, the food is okay, and you have relatively few freedoms infringed as long as you don't run near the fence and don't ask questions when some of your buddies go missing every autumn. Everyone seems pretty cool with it, and most live happy, cow-lives.

Would you agree that they're at least content?

If you live the unthinking, unquestioning kind of life of the average mindless cow, then I guess there is a certain contentedness in that. However, if you're the type of cow that wants to find out what's outside of the fence - hell, what's outside of the farm - then living in the manner you described above might not prove that content a life at all.

Now imagine you start asking questions. You start finding out what goes on beyond the fence, and you talk with your other cow-friends on whatreally happens to the people who go missing, dismissing the human's explanation if what was going on.

Ha...Now you're talking about where my mind is going with this...

Then you find out the truth, and you can never go back.

Correct. Very correct.

You can never go back to eating grass and making cow-babies, can you?

Correct. Some of us, however, were born never even thinking about just eating grass and making cow babies.

You can never go back to eating grass and making cow-babies, can you?

Not necessarily. You've found out about something that you always kind of felt and had an unsettling inkling about ever since you were a young calf. From as far back as you can remember, when all your other little calf buddies were busy playing and kicking around and talking about being a "cool strong bull" when they grow up, you were more concerned about that awkward feeling you had...the one that your gut kept bugging you about...the one that told you that, counter to what all the other cows around kept saying, cows aren't the most intelligent creatures on the planet...counter to what all the cows and bulls kept saying, the farm didn't exist only so that you guys could eat grass to your heart's content and that's it.

And then one day...you find out for sure and for certain that 1) not only are you and your other cow buddies being raised for nothing but food (WTF??), but 2) there is a creature that is greater and smarter and stronger and more powerful than your own species - something that goes entirely against what all the elder cows grew up telling everyone.

The level of inquisitiveness that got you to question things and come to these realizations, however, also got you to realize that you are not just a cow; not just some dumb, unthinking animal fit for nothing but eating grass and slaughter; not just a four-legged bovine that occasionally has deep thoughts and spiritual revelations. It got you to understand that you are an energy source - an energy source that just happened to manifest as a cow this time around on a shitty planet in a particularly shitty time/epoch. Your understanding that you are more - much more - than just "a dumb cow" steadies you, and it helps you take the march to the slaughterhouse that you are now going on with cold focus - with steely resolve - while all your other cow buddies around you either continue to be entirely unaware, or the few that realize what indeed IS about to happen are now in a rabid froth, absolutely freaking out.

You realize that it's good for you to have known what the truth actually was - not so much because it's helped you change the dreadful fate that you and all your cow friends are now on, but because it's given your true self, your true identity (the identity that is not a cow but that was born into this life as one) the opportunity to face what's about to happen with a level of quiet strength that no other cow around you has.

You're fuckin' broken, buddy, and you'll never be content again.

Given the thoughts you grew up thinking as a young calf, however, you were never that content in the first place.

And you envy those who keep chewin' grass.

No. You look at them and you realize that the knowledge you have of where you are all going will assure that even though you will not be spared their same fate, you will also not experience the same level of psychotic, emotional trauma that they most assuredly will.

You realize that even though you will not be spared their fate, you will also not go through the same level of abrupt psychological and emotional torture they will go through as they find out their entire life was nothing but a lie. You've known all along it was a lie from the very beginning, and the time that you spent inquiring deeply about those "out there" subjects that the other cows laughed at you for having actually helped stabilize you and keep you from the mad and wild stampede that everyone else is now on as you all get pushed, shoved, and electric-prodded into your final moments as you enter the slaughter house.

And you miss it, because when you do eat some grass, shit doesn't taste anything like it used to.

Actually what really happens is that you finally realize why it was that the grass never really had all that much appeal to you in the first place; why it was that it always tasted "not right" to you from the very beginning. You realize that the reason this world never felt all that "right" to you from the jump was because you were never put here to just mindlessly, brainlessly eat grass, chew cud, and talk shit with everyone like all the other cows seemed to be doing. You were brought here as a cow so that you could figure out what was actually going on in this life in the hopes of ultimately transcending your "cowness" altogether.

This is a remarkably important trait that you bet they are educating youngsters out of. I wonder why?

Because our farmers don't want anything but brainless, mindless, grass-eating cows...that are good for nothing but the slaughterhouse.

So, what's behind the fence?

Our true selves. Our real selves. That self that lives and exists beyond the trappings of this physical enclosure - this limited, physical vehicle we temporarily inhabit and mistakenly call "our body".

What a great post to read in the morning. I feel our conversation is far to long at this point to contonue quoting, but this stood out:

You realize that even though you will not be spared their fate, you will also not go through the same level of abrupt psychological and emotional torture they will go through

I would argue this has already occurred to those of us who were born in the system, albeit not abrupt, but slow, long, and constantly more intense with each revelation. But that's OK.

as they find out their entire life was nothing but a lie. You've known all along it was a lie from the very beginning, and the time that you spent inquiring deeply about those "out there" subjects that the other cows laughed at you for having actually helped stabilize you and keep you from the mad and wild stampede that everyone else is now on as you all get pushed, shoved, and electric-prodded into your final moments as you enter the slaughter house.

I guess my biggest problem is this. Stampedes can change directions much like a flock of birds, as long as those in the front know where they're going and why they're doing it. What if the majority of the cows desired what's beyond the fence? How fast could that stampede change directions? How far could it to? How big could it be? This is why I will never be content. Because I don't know how to get other peoplecows to start talking about that fucking fence.

I would submit your post to r/bestof (if not the entire conversation) if subs from r/conspiracy weren't banned.

You realize that even though you will not be spared their fate, you will also not go through the same level of abrupt psychological and emotional torture they will go through

I would argue this has already occurred to those of us who were born in the system, albeit not abrupt, but slow, long, and constantly more intense with each revelation. But that's OK.

What is it exactly that has already occurred to those of us who were born in the system? - experiencing the psychological and emotional torture or not experiencing it?

I'd say that those cows who have woken up to realize that the only purpose behind being born into this system is to be slaughtered have gone through at least some bout of massive psychological and emotional difficulty - finding out that they've been raised being told nothing but a lie can do that to you - but I don't know if those born into the system who are still mindlessly grazing on the nutritionless feed they're given have gone through too much if any psychological/emotional torture...since they still believe the rhetoric that "cows are the smartest creatures in all the land and the world exists only to give us feed and that's it".

Once they do find out what the truth is, they're likely going to have an extremely rough time, in part because they're living in such an unquestioning manner now, but - for now - their ignorance is keeping them from thinking too much...keeping them calm, stupid, and docile.

Stampedes can change directions much like a flock of birds, as long as those in the front know where they're going and why they're doing it.

But if they're stampeding...will they know what they're doing? Often, by its very nature, a stampede is a wild, mindless, instinctual rush of movement - whether it be a cow stampede or a human stampede. There are mob rushes and "mob mentality" type of situations that often kill the people in the front that try to do the very thing you mentioned here.

What if the majority of the cows desired what's beyond the fence?

Then if they could all agree with one another - or if at least most of them could agree - then they could all decide to stage a mass protest, refuse to go into the slaughter house, and decide to kill the farmer as the gates open up.

That or they could all decide that "Yes. We are cows. This is indeed a shitty, shitty fate we were born into on this planet. Lets simply all face it with stoic dignity, and the power of the mental fortitude that we show in the face of death will hopefully cause us to either never have to come back and be reborn in this shitty ass nightmare planet, or if we are reborn here, we can come back as something a bit less shat on than a fucking cow."

Either way, the big difference seems to involve having a proper mental and emotional state more than it involves what one physically does as a result. What one does is indeed important and can indeed make a difference, so I certainly don't mean to imply that it's not important, but if there really isn't too much of anything that one can do about the physical situation one finds themselves in, a proper mental/emotional state can at least help keep you from freaking out too much about not having many if any physical options available.

It can all be likened a bit to lucid dreaming. If you never know you're dreaming, then when you're in a dream, you treat what happens in that dream as real. As a result, you will run from every calamity that accosts you in a frightened state. If you become lucid and know during the dream THAT it's a dream, however, and you know that there is a greater you that is doing the dreaming and that can wake up from the experience regardless of how horrid it is (and that won't be harmed by what happens in the dream), then that understanding helps you deal with and react to what's going on a bit better while the dream/nightmare craziness is going on all around you.

This waking life? It's just a dream that's a bit longer and more persistent than the ones we have when we're asleep at night.

If all the cows realized this, then they all could have enough focus, concentration, and resolve to either all fight the fuck back together - and quite possibly all end up being the first cow herd in history to staged a successful "Slaughter House Revolt" - or they could go through the temporary but still horrible nightmare called "shitty slaughter house cow life on a shitty planet called Earth", but do so without having the psychotic cow meltdown, and then hopefully end up waking up to something much better when it's all over.

How fast could that stampede change directions?

Hell, if the majority of the cows desired what's beyond the fence, then it wouldn't even be a stampede in the first place/at all. It could be a very methodical move out of the slaughter house - one that any farmer would have a pretty difficult time containing if they could contain it at all.

How far could it to?

At the end of the day?...probably not all that far. Why? Cuz if the farmer isn't killed, then he'd just call his other farmer buddies or the "Greater Slaughter House Corporation" (or whatever the fuck it's called) and end up containing all the cows somehow. And if the herd still refused to cooperate? then the farmers and the cowboys or whatever would likely just start shooting them all mass execution style.

Either way, the cows likely wouldn't be able to make it out in one piece, cuz the farmers would simply keep going after them until they got them all slaughtered and in meat packing plants.

How big could it be?

It could be huuuuge given how many frickin' cows there are in any given slaughter house. A "one cow mutiny" could likely be pretty darn successful at least for a limited time, as they outnumber any one farmer in any slaughter house probably a thousand to one. That being said, however, and as I explained above, the one cow mutiny may be a short-lived victory for the revolting bovines.

This is why I will never be content. Because I don't know how to get other peoplecows to start talking about that fucking fence.

I can certainly understand that. However, if you know that the majority of the other cows ARE indeed idiots and ARE indeed content with just mindlessly feeding on grass and AREN'T listening to anything you say, then chances are they will simply all tell you to stfu and eat your grass like a good cow and/or they will distance themselves from you because you talk all kinds of "crazy conspiracy cow nonsense about something called 'farmers' and 'slaughter houses'. wtf?"

Ultimately, I would say just make sure that YOU know where the fence is. Make sure YOU know there is a fence to begin with, and that there's a huge, huge world outside that fence - and an even larger universe beyond it. Make sure YOUR mind is aware that you're not just a cow and that's it. So when the time comes to get ushered into the slaughter house (and that time will come) and everyone around you finally realizes just what exactly is going on and what exactly is going to happen and they all start mooing and kicking and freaking the fuck out, you can be apart from that as well, not allow yourself to be caught up in their mass cow hysteria, meet your fate with focused, sober dignity, and move on to greener pastures after you're done with that shitty cow life.

I would submit your post to r/bestof (if not the entire conversation) if subs from r/conspiracy weren't banned.

That subs from /r/conspiracy are banned shows just where the mentality of most of the cows in the slaughter house are...

Namaste, my good man. Namaste,

Probably my favorite conversation so far on reddit. I guess my only issue is the slaughter house itself.

My contention if enough cows are awake, the slaughter house is unnecessary (or it doesn't need to be used if we realize we're no longer just cattle).

It is a pity that this is buried in a subthread in r/conspiracy. I feel like Slaughter House Revolt is the name of a project/conversation thing that we need to now do. Should we link this convo on r/new? Maybe we can some some more insight.

Namaste, my good man. Right back at ya.

I guess my only issue is the slaughter house itself.

I would say the main issue of pretty much every cow that's awake (or that's awakening) indeed sooner or later becomes the fact that we are in a slaughter house.

if enough cows are awake, the slaughter house is unnecessary

I would say that those beings that are using the cows as a resource - who farm and slaughter them - will think the slaughter house necessary regardless of whether the cows begin to wake up or not. If the cows all wake up, get too out of hand, revolt, and try to get out/break out of the slaughter house, there's a possibility that the farmers might stage a mass kill off of the cows before they gain too much steam/momentum. I personally still advocate the awakening and revolting of each and every cow anyway, for what it's worth, but I don't know how far the cows would get before the farmers simply pull out the "big guns" and put the cow revolt to an end once and for all.

As such, if the cows are going to actively and directly revolt - something which I'm totally okay with and would get behind - then they better get real ready and consolidated, because the resistance on the part of the farmers against them/us will not be small.

What's my point? My point is that I don't know if the slaughter house would become unnecessary if the cows were suddenly all awake. After all, think about it: Necessary or unnecessary for who? For the cows? Hell, awake or not, I would say that the cows would feel that the slaughter house is WAAAYYYY unnecessary! The last thing any cow wants whether awake or not is to be unceremoniously carted off to a slaughter house to be executed for food, etc.

For the farmer, however? Yeah. I think the farmers would say the slaughter house is "necessary". And I don't think the farmers really give a f one way or the other whether the cows are awake or not. As far as they're concerned, the cows are a commodity to use only - a conveyor belt item to churn in and out and slaughter by the thousands every day. I would imagine that they'd want the cows dumb and not awake. It'd be easier to keep them the slaughter house without having to worry about them stirring up any dissent, etc.

So whether the cows are awake or not, the farmers will still be pushing to keep up the slaughter and keep using them (us) as resources and nothing more.

And if the cows were to all suddenly awake? Would the slaughter house then become unnecessary? I think the cows would have to combine their forces and make a considerable and VERY concerted effort to free themselves, because the farmers - the ones in charge of them - would still be working hard to keep them (us) as being nothing but meat and that's it.

(or it doesn't need to be used if we realize we're no longer just cattle).

We the cattle might not think so, but the farmers don't give a f about us. To them, again, we're just "stupid cattle" - important only on the basis of how much meat the dumb cow can produce, and that's it. They're gonna keep using us and putting us in the slaughter house as much as they possibly can...and I don't think they're going to stop or give up doing that without a serious, serious battle...one that I don't think it's impossible for the cows to win, but one that the cows better get damn ready to fight till the end, because a battle against the farmers of this planet will not be easily waged or won.

I feel like Slaughter House Revolt is the name of a project/conversation thing that we need to now do.

...Slaughter House Revolt. I was thinking about that, believe it or not, as I was typing out my previous response above...

Should we link this convo on r/new?

I wouldn't oppose doing that.

Maybe we can some some more insight.

Worth a try.

Not to be US/EST centric - but I feel a post on r/new in 6-7 hours will get more visibility than right now. Maybe we can can more people talking about fences tomorrow? Seems like it could be fun.

Feel more than free to OP it then, and then link me so I can see it as well.

Still waitin for hus response

It is dinner time. I'm just stuck in traffic.

im just saying /u/no1113 is writing a good response to what is behind the fence

It was a good one.

"Never, ever" is a bit extreme. Ignorance is often more blissful I find. With knowledge comes responsibility and power, not necessarily bliss. Many men have died lonely and sad with the truth. Even more have died happy and delusional(think of all the people who watch Fox News, or believe a false religion and die never realizing it is complete bullshit). I'm not saying that Knowledge, and the pursuit of it cannot bring bliss, but that it does not always bring bliss. I'm not saying that Ignorance brings bliss, but that it does not always lead to sadness. What you're saying is essentially karma, but based on knowledge/ignorance instead of morality/immorality. I do not believe in karma, hence our disagreement.

what if i stress the 2nd syllable of the word - ignorance. ig-NOR-ance. igNORance is bliss

this means that to be displaying ignorance you have to be willingly ignoring information that either contradicts your views or could possibly contradict them. so to me ignorance is not bliss, it's simply something i've come to choose not to engage in.

"Never, ever" is a bit extreme.

Certainly seems that way, but if you are in a state that eventually, sooner or later will prove to be false and will eventually sooner or later bite you in the ass, then that state cannot be said to have been bliss. It might have seemed like "bliss" for a certain, temporary period of mistaken and confused time...but I would say that it in fact wasn't.

Would I rather live 80 years in a false positive and then find out on my deathbed that it was all a lie? or would I rather be born knowing a difficult truth and live for 80 years struggling (successfully or not) working toward allying myself accordingly?

I'd prefer the latter 10/10.

Ignorance is often more blissful I find.

Only because you are not aware of the harm that it causes in the long run.

Ignorance is rarely harmful...in the short term.

My eyes are not focused only on the here and now, however.

With knowledge comes responsibility and power, not necessarily bliss.

Very correct. My saying that ignorance isn't bliss doesn't mean that knowledge in and of itself necessarily is on any levels other than the greater, more advanced ones.

Many men have died lonely and sad with the truth.

I'm not certain that those individuals were completely aware of the full truth, then, for real truth is a buoy. It allays fears and sadness, but only as one comes closer to an understanding of its greater meaning. A partial grasp of it - commendable as such a thing certainly is - might not be enough to combat the intense difficulties of this particular world. As such, blame not truth for one's loneliness or sadness. Blame not yet arriving at an adequate understanding of it.

Even more have died happy and delusional(think of all the people who watch Fox News, or believe a false religion and die never realizing it is complete bullshit).

If personal identity continues independent of the limited physical vehicle (and there is a significant amount of evidence - academic and otherwise - strongly indicating that it does) then it can be said that whatever imbalances manifested themselves in one single life will undergo a process of "rebalancing" in succeeding incarnations. That rebalancing can be said to be excruciatingly painful depending upon how tightly one holds on to whatever false beliefs they may have previously attached themselves to. If there is any truth to the continuance of personal identity independent of the physical vehicle, then no one gets away with anything. Ever.

Everything gets re-balanced.

I'm not saying that Knowledge, and the pursuit of it cannot bring bliss, but that it does not always bring bliss.

The pursuit of knowledge indeed cannot alone bring bliss. Bliss takes place upon the acquisition of clearer and clearer forms and aspects of knowledge, along with the proper application of its tenets.

It's a work in progress - not an "on/of" light bulb, but more of a gradual dial. Depending upon the type of knowledge one gains - especially considering how difficult this world ultimately is - one might need a WHOLE HELL OF A LOT of knowledge before they begin arriving at any real bliss. However, given (again) that ignorance seems to always sooner or later lead eventually to an identity banging their head (often painfully) up against a dead end wall, I would say that knowledge and truth is a thing anyone interested in no longer continuing to have a bloody forehead would do well to strive for.

What you're saying is essentially karma, but based on knowledge/ignorance instead of morality/immorality.

Knowledge and ignorance can, however, be looked upon as different (but not too dissimilar) variants of morality/immorality, for with greater knowledge comes greater morality. I, of course, know that some of the most insane criminals on the planet were geniuses (Hannibal Lector being a prime fictional example...Jack The Ripper as being purported to be an extremely intelligent doctor being a good factual example). Perhaps, therefore, instead of using "knowledge/ignorance", we should use "wisdom/ignorance".

Wisdom is a far greater thing than knowledge alone - for wisdom involves the proper handling of the knowledge one accrues - but it certainly seems that one at least needs knowledge first before one can use it wisely.

I do not believe in karma, hence our disagreement.

Belief is the word one uses for something one agrees with without having a proper or adequate level of actual evidence, understanding, or research. As such, I don't believe in karma either.

I have an understanding based upon study and research that 1) personal identity exists (such being a demonstrable, self-evident fact), and 2) that such identity can exist independent of a physical vehicle.

What you don't know will ALWAYS come back and bite you in the ass

Its not what you don't know

Its what you think you know that just ain't so

In which case, you are technically not knowing that what you think you know just ain't so. :)

And if it doesn't kill me? then it'll make me stronger.

That which doesn't kill you weakens you so the next thing can. =P

Tell that to Goku!

That which doesn't kill you weakens you so the next thing can.

Sometimes that is indeed the case. Sometimes, however, if it doesn't kill you, and you get up, dust yourself off, and focus and work hard enough, you can overcome the blow and come back from it and be stronger than you would have ever been able to be had the calamity never occurred in the first place.

This thread has been linked to from elsewhere on reddit.

• [/r/conspiracy] no1113 and I worked a thought experiment through in the 'rabbit hole' thread from yesterday. One of my favorite conversations on reddit recently, and would love for a Friday discussion about it.

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I prefer living in the closest realization to reality that I can possibly attain. Ugly or beautiful as it is, I want to understand reality to the fullest extent possible.

For the most part, the conspiracy theories we discuss are probabilities, not certainties. Some are more probable than others. Some are true, no doubt. Some are even proven. Some are patently false, equally no doubt. Problem is, except for the clearly proven ones like Tuskeegee Airmen, we just don't know. So we need to assign ranges of probability to them and deal with them mentally in that manner.

That's what I do anyway. For example, "Michael Hastings was Assassinated" I put at the highest range of probability. "9/11 was, to at least some degree, actively manufactured by TPTB" is in the middle of the range. "Widespread Chemtrailing via Commercial Aircraft" is on the extreme bottom end of my probability list.

But in the end, little of it directly affects me in my day-to-day life.

I live in the USA. I can freely travel to wherever I want to within the country. If I want to travel outside the country, the USA won't restrict me (though I will need authorization from any nation I plan to visit). I could move out of the country and, again, the USA wouldn't stop me.

There is even the option of renouncing my citizenship if I chose to do that. It's lengthy and complicated, and should probably be IMO, but it's possible.

The range of who I can work for and what I can do, including being self employed, is limited only by the education, skills, and experience I have chosen to acquire plus my imagination. Nobody put a iron wall in front of me and said, "NO you cannot get your PhD," or "No, you cannot open that business," or anything of the sort.

The most onerous things that impact my life are out there in plain view. Citizens United has effectively handed control of the US government to the wealthy and big corporations. To some degree, that is and will continue to whittle away at my financial position. However, at some point Joe the Plumber is going to wake the fuck up and realize shit went downhill and start voting for people like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders to get this shit reversed. It's cyclical. We're back to 50's McCarthyism. That cycle ended. So will this one.

Also, I have no soul for these things to take a toll on. Neither do you. Nor does anyone else. Psyche, sure. Soul, no.

If you can't compartmentalize mentally what you're coming to understand, you need to find a way to cope. Maybe you can learn how to compartmentalize. Maybe you should decide to stop digging in so deeply and find the level of ignorant bliss you can be comfortable with. There's no shame in that.

In the end, I believe life is about happiness. You, I, everyone gets a very, very limited number of heartbeats. You should try to be as happy as you can for as many of them as you can. If that means you need to set aside your attention to the bullshit that's happening behind the scenes and enjoy for the moment The Matrix that has been created for your entertainment, so be it.

This is the realest shit I have read on here in a while. In the end, what can we really do about anything beyond our own little realm of reality? I can choose what I'm going to eat for dinner, but I cant choose who we go to war with or what laws get passed. Our only power is in numbers but there's more dim people than bright people. Most people are still asleep and cant be woken no matter how hard you shake them. They love the dream their in, and their afraid of waking up to find out reality is scary. The end game is near. All we can do is prepare, and be as happy as possible in the mean time. We were born into this shit.

This is the realest shit I have read on here in a while.

Thank you. Seriously.

The end game is near.

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote except that part.

The "end-game" is now and it has been going on for centuries. The cycles within the game will shift, as the McCarthyism I mentioned. The flow of money will shift. Enough people will feel enough pain pretty soon to make that happen. That goes in cycles, too. It might have to be overwhelming pain, as was felt in The Great Depression, but eventually the pain will reach the point that people will realize they need to stop voting lip service and start voting their own station.

And TPTB don't care who's in office - Bush or Obama, Clinton or Cruz, Warren or McConnell. TPTB are secure regardless. They allow us the illusion of a great deal of control by giving us just a little bit of real control.

TPTB don't care what the masses have or don't have. They don't actively try to hurt the masses. Or help them, for the most part. (But I think some might, in their own weird way.) They give as many fucks about the guys making 20k to 20 million a year as the guys making 20k to 20 million a year give about children starving in Africa. They are completely irrelevant to your world. For all intents and purposes, they do not exist. The 99.9% are equally irrelevant to the 0.1%.

If we want to shift some of the play money they give us away from the wealthy and toward the less wealthy, they could give two fucks less. Because they're not the wealthy. They're the ultra, insanely wealthy and powerful whose fortunes will not, can not, be turned by an election.

Try to post more around here - we need more experience from those of us who have seen the crank turn more than once.

Those who get isolated and depressed about these things are internalizing what they think they know in the wrong way. We've all done it at one point. I'm talking about you if:

• You can't talk about politics at all anymore with anyone, or people avoid those conversations with you or groan when you bring it up.

• Your views about what you think you know (the feds, the jews, democrats, republicans) has gotten in the way of real life relationships that are not based on what you read on the internet.

• You continue to escalate your fervor and ability to suspend rationality to justify the isolation and frustration you feel.

Allowing these sorts of negative behaviors into your life is easy enough to do. First you take everything you read as fact. /u/thc1967 did a great job of demonstrating how to weigh the probabilities and behave accordingly. Many here, and many on the internet at large simply fail here. From there everything else rolls down hill.

Take care of your family, keep strong morals, and know in the end you can only act when its clear what the facts are. Keep your eyes on the horizon but know that every dog as their day, and their death, and this shit is as old as the world. Don't let the abundant access to information fool you into thinking there is more evil then there ever was.

This was a great conversation and I appreciated it all.

The 1% are interested in the 99% only so much as they think there are too many of them. Eugenics is real and there are many ways in which the elite are soft killing the masses right now. They might also thin the herd more violently through a pandemic. Personally, I think it will be soon.

The 1% are interested in the 99% only so much as they think there are too many of them.

Do you think there are too many people in Africa who only eat today if they find grubs?

Probably, because you're hopefully an empathetic human being who doesn't like the notion of people starving to death.

Are you doing anything at all about it? The extent of your action is probably to change the channel when the Sally Struthers commercials come on because the truth inconveniences you. You don't send help, food, or money... but at the same time you wouldn't even consider sending bombs or plagues.

You simply do not care enough to do anything, because those lives do not impact you one iota. Aside from commercials influencing you to change the TV channel, that is.

http://i.imgur.com/cmCs0gO.gif

start voting for people like Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders to get this shit reversed.

Warren and Sanders are part of the problem, not part of the solution. No politician is part of the solution. They can't be or they'd be out of a job.

Baby steps. They will work to reverse the flow of cash. They will also work to improve education. Not rote memorization and the meat puppet factories that pass for schools now, but honest to goodness knowledge and the ability to think clearly.

That's the first step, and they will do it.

I don't share your faith though I wish I could. Only speaking for me but faith in any political change, or in politicians, is one of the casualties of my education and journey down the rabbit hole.

Anyone that actually threatens the status quo and/or the schattenstaat ends up disgraced, in jail or dead. If they're still in office, they're not actually a threat, just a tool.

Anyone that actually threatens the status quo and/or the schattenstaat ends up disgraced, in jail or dead.

You're talking about a level below the people who really are in charge, those with real power.

Do you care who the elected officials are in Nigeria? Can you name any of them? No? Why not?

The answer is that the elected officials in Nigeria have precisely zero bearing on your life, on your health, on your financial station... nothing. They can affect exactly nothing about you.

Same is true of any elected official anywhere for the people I'm talking about.

Michael Hastings... he was assassinated, sure as I'm typing this right now. But he wasn't killed by the people who run the world. He was killed by the layer under that. The layer they - and we - let have power.

We can change the people in that layer, and "they" won't care a bit. They're as untouchable to what we can do as you are to whoever the fuck runs Nigeria, at least for a very, very long time.

The layer they - and we - let have power.

This is probably our difference in perceptions. We don't let anyone have power. We're given an illusion that we do. Whoever we actually do elect is just a figurehead and a pawn with no real power of their own. They do whatever they're told by their owners, just as most Americans do.

Hastings was murdered by an unelected and unknown agency that had the power to direct the police and the media. No public serpent servant can do that but the cabal that they work for does have that power.

The bottom of the rabbit hole is the knowledge that we're held in servitude of mind, body and soul to this cabal that most will never know exists. Climbing out of the rabbit hole is the release from servitude.

This isn't true. Look at both of their voting records. Neither of them are the solution.

Yeah. The people who keep going "Warren and Sanders will save us!" are the same people who were the brainwashed legions that were chanting "Hope and Change!" in 2008.

Nobody will save you. Every individual has to save themself.

I feel that way every now and again. I started researching global conspiracies at a very young age and put them on the back burner during my college years. Life was much simpler then but I am glad I returned to questioning everything.

I feel moments of isolation all the time. One of my best friends is Jewish and we jumped down the rabbit hole at the same time and always had each other's backs when either of us had doubts about the theories presented to us. I pointed out the fact that he is Jewish because after he went on birthright we no longer saw eye to eye on the israeli issue and he has slipped away from having the same enthusiasm that I have about learning all the dark secrets in the world.

That being said I feel comforted by this community as you too should feel similarly comforted. You aren't alone, and none of us are alone even if it might feel that way from time to time. I feel that it is only a matter of time when a major conspiracy gets reveled to the general public against the wishes of the powers that be and while we will feel a sense of relief our peers will undoubtably have a serious emotional crisis. I remember when I first researched 9/11 I refused to believe it because we are taught from a young age that our government and our elected officials are fighting for us when that is simply and sadly not the case.

...we are taught from a young age that our government and our elected officials are fighting for us when that is simply and sadly not the case.

Reminds me of a song by Pete Seeger:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VucczIg98Gw

Hits nail on head. Drives it into plank in single shot.

I only wished more of my friends and family would have joined me. I pretty much zone out at holiday dinners when politics come up. They think I don't care. I just don't have the energy to tell them that they're talking about puppets.

Story of my life, especially that urge to get involved in their conversations but can't risk having them think you're a psycho hurts the most.

They will when they're ready. It may feel a bit isolating at first but that's kinda the road we're on, we didn't chose to see past the veil out of security and convenience, in time more will understand. Be patient friend.

I think I was five or so when someone explained things to me as such:

most people have one money bill in their pocket, if even that much. Like 5 dollars (back then 5 dollars would get you a lot more than now).

it was then explained to me that the richest persons in the world have so much money if you stacked it all up in paper form it would reach the moon (at 5 I was also learning about astronomy and had some vague sense that that was an almost unimaginable amount of funds)

I'm not a communist, but I think this level of economic disparity can lead to the same problems as we are taught communism would lead to such as corruption and a lowering of collective health and productivity.

I just want things to work better for everyone- I've heard that all complaints are merely the result of unmet needs. When everyone is fed and warm and safe they tend to get along very well. That's what I want.

I think if they're smart, that's what the ultra-rich also want.

None of this stuff is 'conspiracy theory' stuff, yet to point out these overwhelming systematic issues can get you labeled a conspiracy theorist pretty quickly.

Sorry to ramble, but to conclude- I believe for things to get better more people have to become aware, if that awareness is falling down a rabbit hole, then we should all be eager to learn that despite all the privileges and good things we have there is so much room for improvement and that's actually a good thing. I'm glad that it's possible for things to be better than they are. Although there might be a fight to be had against actual psychos who like to cheat and be greedy (these guys will kill people to keep what they have, even if their personal wealth is dependent on our collective impoverishment).

Knowledge is power.

i used to think my life would be easier if i'd just stop seeking answers, but then that would require not being my true self,

i'd rather have eyes wide open than shut

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." -Edmund Burke

They say that knowledge is power...just saying. Now it's up to us to do something about it, we know that change won't come from the inside.

Yes. Literally nothing is enjoyable anymore. I see people watching TMZ or VH1 and all I can think of is "This is why society sucks."

In a way I feel happy I don't get sucked into it all, but I feel just as isolated for not being a part of the happy bunch of folks around me.

Maybe a tinge of it every day. But going back is insanity. And my god this story is fascinating.

I find that sometimes a complete break from the Internet for a week or two can help with the sanity. That's actually pretty hard for me because I do basically everything, including work, on the computer. I turn off WiFi. Either that, or I make a rule that I can look at anything "current", which is to say, I can read blogs or other material created in the past, but not participate in reddit or other social media.

The point is that using sites like reddit and facebook too much prevents you exploring your own mind. It's quite interesting the new thoughts you can have when you have to think of what it is you'd like to find out about beforehand then search for it.

Another weird thing from a metaphysical perspective. Let's say Buddha is right and that with our thoughts we create the world. A while ago, I started (perhaps a little idiotically) getting really worried about ebola and the prospect of a disgusting worldwide pandemic. In my anxiety about it, I reasoned that perhaps from my perspective, in my multiverse, it was my own personal anxiety about it that was making it into such a big deal. In response, I went on an ebola-information fast. No internet for two weeks, just got involved in reading some books I'd been meaning to for ages.

When I came back, it was almost as if ebola had gone away (I'm sure it's because it's just been taken out of the news cycle), but in any case, from my perspective there was no more fear mongering going on about it. In any case, I was pleased with the results and I'm keen to try my "ignorance therapy" on other things I find troubling about the world ;)

No, you are not alone. I have the same fatigue, the same burden of knowledge. The same runaway search for meaning. The same intuitive feeling that I've been lied to my whole life. I have to constantly check my critical thinking skills, constantly second guess my own thoughts, constantly apply Occams Razor....and it is exhausting.

For me it started with doctors not understanding (being taught lies?) nutrition. There is a deliberate epistemological problem in western medicine.

I had to figure out what foods made me feel terrible on my own, because some doctors literally laughed at me.

It's all connected. It's sometimes scary, but it leads to enlightenment sometimes in wonderful ways like my diet change.

Wow. That is how I started too. I was very young (7th grade) and I read a book on natural hygiene. From there there it lead to a spree that has since spanned out to the edges of the galaxy

Every day dude. Ignorance is bliss.

To cowards it is

We are generations raised to be cowards. Ignorance definitely is bliss, but knowledge is power.

Wise comment

Some of us are born there, and develop a bad habit of asking too many questions.

Why did I, The giant disconnect between the reality of life in the U.S.A. and what the propaganda/dialog says.

I can't regret what I am, and that is Oh there is this. My parents taught us, always question and challenge authority, why and is it necessary?

Because sometimes it is necessary and useful, just not as often as we are asked to submit to it.

I have felt pretty lost in the past due to knowing what I know. When you find out everything you thought you knew is a lie, the world is full of evil, and most people are useless fools who don't care or attack you for pointing it out, it can be hard to handle. For a long time when I was younger I just figured I was crazy for having views that were so contrary to everyone else's. But now I know I'm right. I'm better for it now, though it has been difficult. Especially keeping positive. And going on even though a lot of the time it seems like nothing matters and we are powerless.

raises hand, but it really helps me see through the shit though

No. I love seeking the truth and learning as much as I can. I just hate the evil acts people do and the oblivious ignorance and stupidity of people.

SOMETIMES i wouldn't mind a little ignorance on my behalf

Not for me, just a glancing thought. I don't think I could go back. I'm curious to know if anyone has though.

Anyone lurking that can share their experience of going back?

Honestly I stopped going too far because realistically it was a waste of my time and happiness. I now have a family, job, and I am learning awesome things applicable in the world. That being said I am cautious of everything. I am aware of that things are almost never as they seem. There is no way I can learn everything so I do my best to focus on what I can most easily control.

I am happy I've educated myself, I've also done my best to educate those around me. I don't really regret learning what I have as much as I'm angry that people refuse to open their eyes.

I was much happier living "plugged into" the Matrix.

Every single day. I used to believe I was exceptional because of God, Country and Destiny.. Now I know I am a slave and as soon as I stop producing I have no purpose. As a slave I have no voice. I am fat and warm and have a soft bed a car clothes to wear and food in the fridge. There is nothing I want more then to be one of the members of the lost tribes in south america or africa. The reason being is even though they have nothing they have true community and happiness. I have everything and nothing at the same time. I have not lived since my first paycheck. I just exist to work to produce to consume until I get cancer and die a horrible death with no dignity and everything I worked for taken away from me. Knowing the darkness makes me scared to live.

Never for a second.

Virginia, (devils32391) your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except what the mainstream media tells them. They think that nothing can be which is not documented in Wikipedia. All politicians, Virginia, whether they be hired or bribed are of little consequence. In this great universe of ours Joe Sixpack is a mere insect, an ant in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of partisan and ascerbic radio talk show hosts.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a NWO. It exists as certainly as power and political contributions exist. And you know that they abound given the near total control of just two political parties. Alas! how chaotic would be the world if there were no NWO. It would be as uncontrolled as if there were no illusion of true democracy. There would be no childlike faith then, no Rush Limbaughs, no Michael Moores, no unwavering partisan belief. We should have no prescribed enlightenment, except from independent thought and skeptical reasoning. The eternal light with which our 'pundit masters' shapes our opinions would be extinguished.

Not believe in the NWO! You might as well not believe in 'fair and balanced' reporting! You might get Papak to search the minds of men looking for our NWO masters, but even if he did not see find them, down, what would that prove? Nobody sees the NWO masters, but that just proves they stay behind the scenes. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see the NWO web site on the internet? Of course not, but that's no proof that it is not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

Have you considered that perhaps the Internet is a product of the NWO?

You may tear apart the a politicians indictment and see the connections inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest prosecuter, nor even the united strength of all the reporters that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, closed mindedness, and ignorance can push aside that curtain of objective, non-partison investigations and view and picture of lock-step political obediance. Is this blindless sustainable? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else as real and persistance.

No NWO?! Thank your chosen deity it lives, and it will forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, the NWO will continue to make glad the heart of people who will do anything for power.

For me knowing has been liberating. Merely taking in our spoon-fed information led to uncertainty and paranoia. The small glimpse of a bigger picture just piqued my curiosity more and more, intensifying my interest, causing me to spend inordinate time searching. Thanks to numerous documentaries, internet sources, and courageous truth-tellers, I at least feel peace inside, while the world's horrors persist nonetheless.

Ignorance is bliss. Consume and obey, citizen.

Sometimes I wish I had never come across the original Loose Change back in 2006. That started it for me. But I'd rather be awake and knows what's up instead of asleep and a sheep.

It's always ying yang. There will always be as much good as bad. All we can do is fight for the good.

Not especially. I couldn't help it. I was born this way. Someone should write songs about it!

I know what you mean but the satisfaction you get when you finally convince people into looking at things differently is worth it. Eventually, the way that people like us think will be beneficial. In the event of a major false flag or any major situation really, you will have a better chance of deciphering the bullshit from media/government and make more informed decisions. Well, I believe that I would anyway. But it certainly can take its toll, especially when what you are trying to warn people of is ignored, when all they need to do is check the facts and they'd have no choice but to acknowledge what is happening.

"Disillusioned" > "Illusioned" ... that is the sum of it for me. Walk around the world with the veil of culture and media clouding your view of reality? Or see things for what they are?

I'll see things for what they are thank you.

I have limited Internet right now and I'm sure it's already been mentioned but read Law of One it changed me!

Oh yea, as I wish I could go back and be happily ignorant and making money.

I don't mind. It helps me fully understand society. I would be another sheep. Yes it makes talking politicss and economics impossible.

Guess we're on the same wavelength -- I call my multi "rabbithole" http://www.reddit.com/user/LetsHackReality/m/rabbithole

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I COMPLETELY understand...

The key is to focus on solutions as much as problems and as you said sometimes disconnecting with prayer/meditation/music/spending time in nature, whatever calms your soul.

No. But I do wish I didn't have to. You know, either no conspiracies or real accountability. So that I can read about building 7 controlled demolition and in the same article a who's who and when the trail is happening.

It's not a rabbit hole, it's a criminal investigation. It's more like a game of whack a mole.

Looking back at my life I had an interest in politics and finding out what's actually going on behind the propaganda from early on. If I had not run into Mike Ruppert's "The Truth and Lies of 9/11, it's still inevitable that I would have found the ideas in some other capacity.

Did I discover conspiracy...or did conspiracy discover me?

Either way, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I don't think the CT's are always right, by any means, but what they do is get you thinking outside the box like nothing else can. Thinking this way has helped me along the way in my career and kept me out of trouble numerous times.

At first it was a little overwhelming. I know embrace the rabbit hole and fall deeper every day.

Look into Stoicism if you need guidance in life.

Btw op you either strive to be Neo or you are that evil dude who wanted to go back into the matrix.

That is why I stopped. Every once in a while a story will come up and I will look into it but for the most part I said fuck it. I mean, seriously, what am I going to do about Joe Bidens son being part of some oil monopoly? Or the fact that Obama is probably the only non Bush/Clinton president we have had within the past 20 years and most likely the next 16 years? Or shit about our money in the fed. I just honestly stopped giving a fuck. Because seriously, What do you even do with all of the knowledge that you acquire when researching this stuff? No one else wants to hear it and it just fucks with your head. So serioulsy, what do you guys even do with all of the information that you gather regarding this stuff?

No, because it has helped me to become more "grounded". The thirst for knowledge is part of the process of evolving and enlightening the soul. And, that is what we are here to do in my opinion.

Lifting the veil of the simulated reality in our modern world (and the simulations are taking on more forms to become all encompassing) enables us to see the real miracle(s) of the true non-simulated Universe we inhabit.

A soul that wants to evolve will seek the truth, and truth seekers end up going down the rabbit hole.

Do I wish I never wentdown the rabbit hole? No, I wish there wasn't a rabbit hole.

yea. it feels hopeless.

yea. it feels hopeless

I believe there's a bit of "cognitive dissonance" which occurs for everyone who realizes the world doesn't work the way they thought it did. It's disruptive, and can be frightening. Human beings are creatures of habit, and just about anything that deviates from "the usual pattern" can be frightening.

I believe the healthiest thing to do is to become aware of the information at play; assess it, but don't allow it to destroy you or scare you enough to become a mute or dysfunctional person. In other words, don't be afraid to sleep at night because there are ghosts in your house, or become fearful that reptilian beings from "the lower-fourth dimension" are skin-walking possessors of politicians and their activities.

Be rational, but take it in your stride. Sure, the world- and the energetic reality which is at the root/heart of dense matter- and all the other dimensions/realms of existence soever are a thing. But that doesn't mean you must live in fear of all the activities that occur (unseen) around you.

Not everyone is out there to hurt you. There are plenty of kind, benevolent ones out there to help, too :)

Yeah all the time, but then I realize I'd rather be aware than ignorant.

I regret every single thing i've read, why you may wonder? Because I started to read about conspiracies even very thoroughly as well as posting on forums since I was about 14. Now i'm 19 and I wish I had started reading about conspiracies around the age of 17.

I started way to early and really regret it however if I could go back now i'd probably not change it as i've adapted to it by now. But it's sadly affected me as person in a sort of negative way, then that is and not now.

The more i read and the more i learn about, no matter how fucked, the free'er i feel

http://www.mindmined.com/public_library/nonfiction/anonymous_my_cosmic_trigger_finger_is_broken.html

Nope. The truth shall set us free.

Hang in there my friend. You are not alone in this. Most of the millions who have woken up are feeling some level of this. This shit will get better, just give it a little time.

It probably would have been easier to waste my life as a cog in the machine. But I know that what I know means something. The truths I can share with others helps to break the chains humanity had tied itself up with one link at a time. The truth is a rising force, something that grows more powerful over time. We will prevail, the truth must prevail, if we are to move forward into the next stages of our species growth to a more advanced form. The future I believe in is more valuable than any peace of mind I could have in the present.

Pretty much like it. I understand so well how you feel.

It makes it hard to keep going like nothing is different every day of my life. I mean, I go to work 5 days a week, talk with so many people, and I just have to put aside all that I know most of the time. Not that I want to, but I just don't have the energy to argue with every people that tells me something that makes me facepalm myself in my head.

For now, I still have a lot of obligations that I have to do, even if I find them wrong from the knowledge I have acquired.

It's a pain, and like you said, you end upi having this feeling of isolation, because you just don't recognize yourself in anybody. I don't look at people the same way I use to do.

Most of my good friends and family have enough "openess" to be aware of some things, but havn't fall into all of this as much as I did it. I'm glad I have these people in my life, because that could become quite a lonely ride.

Still, I wouldn't want to forget everything, because I prefer a truth that hurt, than a lie that ease. I'm aware, I see the world with eyes that only a few people can understand. There is no price for that.

Stay strong, remind yourself who you are. Nothings end, everything change.

I wouldn't say so. For example, if you know what foods/ingredients to avoid (because they may cause cancer or so) is definitely something good for your own.

I see it like this: We don't get fewer i.e. more people wake up and it will only be a matter of time until change will come.

Don't loose the fight mate

No.

To a hammer everything looks like a nail. Put it down and realize Oswald acted alone. Fnord.

no because eventually you come out the other side and realize the rabbit hole was a lie

I regret discovering medical conspiracies. Because I try to step away from it, and THEY FIND ME. If it's not another fucking mass shooting or violent murder-suicide on the news, it's another friend or family member on the shit having horrible reactions to the stuff. Suicides, suicide attempts, overdoses, opiate addiction leading to cancer. Just yesterday, a friend told me about her "mental illness" and suicide attempt...occurred two days after her doc prescribed an anxiety drug. But of course it's not the med, it can't be.

I feel like fucking Chicken Little. The sky is falling, but no one fucking cares. I try to ignore it, but it keeps seeking me out. The destruction is everywhere, but we could avoid it if we paid attention and fixed it...but no one will fucking listen. :(

Not at all. I would rather live in truth than flourish in lies.

It's scary, but overall my life is far better for knowing e.g. not being left disabled by a vaccine

What a great post to read in the morning. I feel our conversation is far to long at this point to contonue quoting, but this stood out:

You realize that even though you will not be spared their fate, you will also not go through the same level of abrupt psychological and emotional torture they will go through

I would argue this has already occurred to those of us who were born in the system, albeit not abrupt, but slow, long, and constantly more intense with each revelation. But that's OK.

as they find out their entire life was nothing but a lie. You've known all along it was a lie from the very beginning, and the time that you spent inquiring deeply about those "out there" subjects that the other cows laughed at you for having actually helped stabilize you and keep you from the mad and wild stampede that everyone else is now on as you all get pushed, shoved, and electric-prodded into your final moments as you enter the slaughter house.

I guess my biggest problem is this. Stampedes can change directions much like a flock of birds, as long as those in the front know where they're going and why they're doing it. What if the majority of the cows desired what's beyond the fence? How fast could that stampede change directions? How far could it to? How big could it be? This is why I will never be content. Because I don't know how to get other peoplecows to start talking about that fucking fence.

I would submit your post to r/bestof (if not the entire conversation) if subs from r/conspiracy weren't banned.