I'm starting to avoid the comments section and only read the article. It's just a mess most of the time.

I think this demonstrates that it's not just a few shills, but the whole of society. Most people believe the BS and lies that the government puts out. We lost this fight a long time ago, when the 6 year old went to government school and prayed to their flag.

I addressed that argument in a thread I posted a few days ago.

The logic that shills and propaganda don't exist because people do it for free is deeply flawed and missed the entire point of what shills and propaganda promote.

I agree that there are shills, I have had one even admit it to me (he was working from prison interestingly). However I think people have been indoctrinated to go along with it all. So it probably only takes a few coordinated shills to get a larger group of people to go along.

A perfect example might be the recent Michael Brown shooting. I wonder where you personally stand on this issue? Did the victim have what was coming to him at the hands of the state? Even I myself am not fully immune to this indoctrination.

I wonder if we're approaching this problem all wrong. I don't fault your approach here as wrong at all. I just think we need to not treat this as a magic bullet.

So it probably only takes a few coordinated shills to get a larger group of people to go along.

Yes, I completely agree. But on a site of millions, even with one shill to a thousand, that is a lot of people shilling.

Here is some more info on the subject.

As far as Mike Brown goes, I left the US a few years ago and the relief of not being surrounded by a 24/7 media circus is amazing. So I have no opinion about it because it has no effect on my daily life and where I live, I cannot understand the news because it is in a different language.

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You're not kidding!

Yeah I don't browse or post on many subreddits but the comments here lately have had me not wanting to come back

I have deleted countless accounts and left this subreddit and reddit as a whole, probably 7 or 8 times.

But something always brings me back. I don't know...hope?

Boredom and cats. Mostly cats.

Agreed. Posted for the first time. Thanks!

Out of interest, what in your opinion do you consider to be a garbage comment, or a post that makes this sub look crazy? Any examples?

This is the perfect example of a garbage comment. It was upvoted to the top score because that thread hit the r/conspiracy front page and that pulls all of the forces out of the woodwork.

Why do I think it is garbage? Because it doesn't add anything to the topic. It does the exact opposite. It took away from the topic. Also, the actual comment is about 12 words long, so it was not thought-provoking and it did not even take the topic into consideration.

It would be the equivalent of a someone asking r/historians about the reasons and details about the Titanic crash and someone coming into the thread and saying "It hit an iceberg. It sunk." and thinking that is a reasonable answer to a question far more complex than that.

If you want to see an example of posts that make this sub look crazy, it really isn't hard. There are countless examples. But I am actually more concerned with the fact that completely relevant posts are immediately downvoted. For example, this post. Within 5 minutes of posting, I was kicked to zero and I am still at that score an hour after making the post.

There is absolutely no reason to downvote this post. Give me one logical reason to downvote a post telling the people in this subreddit to vote more. Every real user of this sub that I have ever talked to recognizes that this sub is going down the drain because the voting scores are being brigaded constantly by multiple sources.

Once again, if you need proof, just look at the first comment I received. A user that, according to reddit detective, has never posted in this subreddit before. So they decided that after 4 months of posting in tons of subreddits, that they would suddenly decide to open up r/conspiracy, browse new, downvote my post as soon as it was posted (I wonder how many other new post they downvoted) and then make a flippant comment about me being a "cringe factory".

Doesn't that strike you as strange? I don't randomly after 4 months of activity, enter r/Halo, browse the new section, and then comment that I think Halo is a stupid game and the users there are dumb for playing it.

And this scenario plays out on r/conspiracy ALL THE TIME. Hence my post.

With regard to the comment you linked to, I have to say that I have no problem with it. For me, the user was just pointing out an alternative and simple explanation. I have no problem with reading all points of view, and this sub tends to sometimes forget about reasonable and rationale explanations from time to time.

... or the majority of reddit agrees with the verdict and, since no one gives a fuck about reddiquette, downvotes anything they disagree with.

I agree with it, because I think it's true. But it also got some fiery debate going as well, which I think is good.

I am supprised by the amount of up votes it got, I suppose.

The other user in this post has commented in /r/conspiracy before, just once mind, one month ago.

I think he is just a lurker and a bit of a troll.

My example of posts and comments which make this sub look bad are blatantly racists posts and comments. Also things to do with Reptilians and total Holocaust denial.

And generally comments and posts that provide literally no sources for their claims, they're bad news.

You need to understand how subversion and basic manipulation works.

This is not a comment that legitimately "shows a different point of view":

or the majority of reddit agrees with the verdict and, since no one gives a fuck about reddiquette, downvotes anything they disagree with.

The topic was not even about Ferguson. Ferguson was used an example of the statement that Reddit is gamed and being manipulated.

So whether or not the majority of users agree with the verdict is irrelevant, for one. Secondly, even if the majority of users DO agree with the Ferguson verdict, that has nothing to do with how propaganda works. Propaganda is not designed to primarily give information, it is designed to get people all wrapped up in emotions and cause a mob mentality.

So the fact that the front page of reddit was one giant "Hey everyone, black people suck right!" is plenty proof that reddit is being used to spread propaganda. Alone, maybe not, but as we have seen this happen time and time again and as there is already well established proof that reddit is being gamed, a topic which is encouraging a discussion on the subject should not be immediately subverted by a quick, 2-bit comment that basically boils down to "You're wrong, reddit is not being gamed. Because I say so."

And that comment was then upvoted to the top of the thread. And once again, alone, maybe I could forgive it. But this happens all the time. Not to mention the fact that that user and many like him/her, are only going into comment threads to throw out the 2-bit response that attempts to invalidate the topic. Every time.

I have problems with some of the conspiracies posted here and sometimes I challenge them. And I agree with many here and I enter into discussions about them. That makes me a real user. Someone who only comments to discredit conspiracies is alright with me, when they are backing up their argument and actually taking the time to provide reasons.

But someone who only comments to discredit conspiracies here, and provides no counterpoints, just the 5-second, mainstream answer that a grade-school drop-out could come up with just by parroting the mainstream, this is a CANCER to this subreddit.

This place is supposed to be a thinking ground. Comments like the one I posted do the exact opposite. They encourage not thinking. They encourage looking at a subject from the shallowest possible angle and then mocking anyone who sees something deeper and wants to build a conversation with other people willing to dig deeper.

And comments like that are constantly upvoted in this subreddit. But 90% of the time, this happens when the thread gets very popular and reaches front-page with a high score. Why? Because there are just as many people here trying to turn off and stop the thinking, as there are people fighting to keep thought alive.

So those comments get upvoted by the crowd that wants to accept the basic, mainstream answer and then give the other people here the impression that it is true. It is called manufacturing consensus. We see it all the time in history.

Its like saying "Hey, there are a lot of funny coincidences regarding the collapse of WTC7, lets have a conversation about it" and then the top comment becomes "WTC7 collapsed because it was hit by debris from the other towers." We all have already heard that line. The reason that we want to dig deeper is because we have heard that line and don't believe it. We don't believe the world is that simple. We understand that reality is more complex and want to use our imaginations to try to fill in more based on what we do know.

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Hey, I didn't know about reddit detective. That's kinda cool. Thanks mate!

A user that, according to reddit detective, has never posted in this subreddit before.

OP I browse /r/conspiratard and /r/conspiracy and TBH your post is very correct.

But claiming a person is a shill based on a hunch of their history is ridiculous. People lurk and other things, not to mention that the person also apparently had a past post history.

The idea investigating everyone for being a shill because they disagreed is ridiculous and unhealthy.

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"I am a bot[1] and this action was performed automatically."

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Whoever created this bot isn't too bright.

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I just voted by downvoting this post.

Thanks for proving my point. And thanks for bringing so much to the discussion.

Your point being that everyone who doesn't agree with you is waging a "war" against you?

Do you build strawmen for a living?

Keep fighting on the front lines!

Do you not understand how media works?

We don't need a stupid PSA on the "importance" of voting up topics on Reddit. God damn, man...you want to make a real difference, go door to door and ask your friends, family, and neighbors to vote during the elections.

How do you know that I am not doing those things?

Do you not understand the world we live in? Nobody is just going door to door, protesting, voting, etc... They are also active online. Because it makes a difference as well.

It's making very little difference. You think Comcast cares that they're the most hated corporation? No, because they know you'll keep paying and that you're fine complaining about it online without taking any action.

If you think this website has made no real differences in the world then you are wrong. Before this site was turned into the corporate shitshow that it is today, plenty of real things were accomplished by people typing comments.

What did /r/conspiracy ever expose, and what real world accomplishments has it made?

First off, I said "this website".

And here you go.

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Yeah, because in the grand scheme of things upvotes can stop bullets and dictatorships all from the comfort of your desk at home! All those people during the Arab Spring didnt need to be out in the streets.... they just needed more upvotes!

Go outside once in awhile OP..... Jesus Christ.

Wow, you are truly delusional if you believe the internet didn't play a major role in the Arab Spring.

Also, seeing as how I am currently traveling the world and working from my computer, your comment falls even flatter to my ears.

Good! So you are familiar with how egypt just cut the internet off almost immediately, will you still be counting your upvotes then? Real activism is done in the streets, not by armchair rebels such as yourself.

Egypt cutting off the internet is proof of the power of the internet.

Real activism is done in the streets AND online. I wasn't aware that you could only choose one or the other.

Egypt cutting off the internet is proof of the power of the internet.

Exactly.

I downvote anyone who uses words like "war" to describe random internet discussions. Upvotes and downvotes do not matter and you are not some white knight of information. You clearly just want unchallenged validation and circle jerking, which is not what this sub is for.

You should try to be more open-minded and not immediately close-up just because you don't like a word that someone used.

And yet I do. Good job ignoring the rest of my comment.

Okay let me address the rest.

Upvotes and downvotes do not matter

So you believe that there are not millions of real people on this site being exposed to the information being upvoted and downvoted?

What exactly "doesn't matter"?

you are not some white knight of information

Okay..... Are you bothered by people who try to get involved in whats going on around them?

You clearly just want unchallenged validation and circle jerking

So this is your take from me telling people to vote more on the site? I didn't tell anyone how to vote. Just to do it.

Maybe you should take a break from this sub if it bothers you so much. Go outside for a while.

This sub doesn't bother me. People who use the internet to validate their own stupid opinions like you bother me.

You seem mad.

Why do you feel so threatened by things strangers post on the internet?

I don't need to feel threatened to spend five minutes pointing out bullshit when I smell it. It isn't exactly difficult.

What exactly is "bullshit" about someone encouraging a subreddit to vote more?

I don't disagree with that. You just had to ruin it by inflating the situation with buzz words and trying to make it seem much worse and serious than it really is. Of course this subreddit is the victim of troll attacks. It's in retaliation to the idiots here who can't handle not discussing things in terms of extremes and absolutes, and most importantly can't handle criticism.

People discuss things in terms of extremes and absolutes because they assume people are going to be smart enough to understand the point. And most people are.

Almost everything important is discussed in these terms because it is vital to mark the extreme ends so that people can then understand how wide the spectrum is.

Only very immature or confused people jump up and latch onto the terminology as an excuse to not think about the subject.

Almost everything important is discussed in these terms because it is vital to mark the extreme ends so that people can then understand how wide the spectrum is.

Perhaps that's how you operate, but it isn't how others perceive it.

Nope, that is the standard in academic circles.

The standard in academia is to inflate every point of view to the most extreme? That's not academic, that's Fox News.

Wow, good job butchering what I wrote.

Almost everything important is discussed in these terms because it is vital to mark the extreme ends so that people can then understand how wide the spectrum is.

Perhaps that's how you operate, but it isn't how others perceive it.

Nope, that is the standard in academic circles.

Holy shit, you literally wrote the exact words that I attributed to you. Please tell me how I in any way butchered what you wrote. You said "Almost everything important is discussed in these terms because it is vital to mark the extreme ends," and then wrote "that is the standard in academic circles." My comment asked "The standard in academia is to inflate every point of view to the most extreme?"

I didn't make a single inference or assumption, and only used the exact information you put forth, reworded into an incredulous question because what you said was absolutely ridiculous. So what exactly did you mean, since you obviously did not communicate it properly in your previous comments?

it is vital to mark the extreme ends so that people can then understand how wide the spectrum is.

is not the same as:

The standard in academia is to inflate every point of view to the most extreme

I don't like to get involved in discussion much for this exact upvote downvote internet troll let me bully you nonsense, but I must say, I admire your statements/opinions and the validity behind it. I'm sorry people are taking this as a joke.

I hate to say it but Reddit is polishing the brass on the Titanic at this point. Trolls and shills are one thing but, as a veteran of the 4chan/Gamergate wars, I can tell you that a sold out site administrator is an entirely different kettle of fish.

My advice would be to start coordinating a migration to another site now because once shit starts hitting the fan it's like herding cats. A lot of us went over to 8chan back in September but others went to Halfchan and shit just got really fragmented. It got to the point where 4chan, Halfchan and 8chan were all raiding each other (although to be fair I think this particular problem is probably 4chan-specific).

I'm actually running out of homes on the internet (haven't been back to any of the chans since September) so would be sorry to see this sub go as it's one of my main sources of information/news. The mods also seem okay as far as I can tell.

I am a anarchist. You can't make me vote!

Would you do it for...a scooby snack?!

You realize that the whole "something bad is happening because people don't agree with me" thing is a batshit crazy way to think, right? There is zero logic there and it's a terribly unhealthy way to think. You don't care about any viewpoint but your own, you don't let any viewpoint but your own be correct.

You realize that "something bad is happening because people don't agree with me" is YOUR logic. Not mine.

You can misinterpret and twist my words up all that you want, but what you ended up with is a product of YOUR mind.

No, that is literally what your edits are saying.

I don't think you understand what the word "literally" means.

I go thru all the /new queue each day just so I dont miss anything since people dont always vote for the really good stuff. Im also cataloguing interesting websites.

I almost only browse the new tab. I upvote topics that seem sensible, and downvote and comment on topics I don't think are sensible.

And then I get called a shill for browsing new and having a semi-new account, because I make a new account every 3-4 months to avoid an accumulation of personal information. And then I get accused of being an idiot for liking football (after the inevitable post history search) Good on ya /r/conspiracy!

you see... it's the whole "there is a war happening" thing that makes this whole thing look like crazy conspiracy rambling.

Even if there is vote bots, don't sensationalize it. It's not a war, its just some bots on a subreddit that has no bearing on the rest of the world.

If it was worldnews? ide be a bit more concerned. But this is conspiracy, I only come here to argue with dramaphiles

You and at least 10 other people have come out to argue and complain about my metaphor.

If it wasn't the metaphor, then your crowd would choose some other small detail. At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what I wrote or how I wrote it, you would come out and start arguing.

You people have some real problems.

Well yea... none of this matters.

I just hate sensationalism. If you woulda been like "Alright guys there are some vote bots fucking up our subreddit" I wouldn't care.

I don't see why we can't have the regular voting system, and put the old "new" one right next to it, to show the amount of downvotes, so we can see the regular downvoting of ALL posts in this subreddit.

discernment is simple.

those interested in the truth will discuss new information.

schills will attack you character (making fun of what you believe or otherwise bashing you without address your comment)

schills will try and give you leading questions that lead to doubt.

those looking for truth will be grateful for new information, ponder the question, perhaps leave it unanswered.

honestly it is really easy to see when you are debating a schill or otherwise.

i regret that many of my conversations end up being with schills, but then again, maybe it is the best thing to get a chance to try and open their eyes to their own insanity and perhaps have them question and doubt what they are doing....

because they have waged war against God... literally, not the man in the sky, but they seem to think he must be up there. idiots think since God doesn't come down and bitch slap them that there isn't one. but God is just so awesome that it keeps given, giving to all of us, that is why they need us to believe they are winning, that is why they waste there time talking down to us, they need us to accept our place... they need you to be weak so you need big pharm. you have no use for big pharm. heavy topics, afraid i'll lose you, but fuck it.

listen you cannot get sick, you cannot get hurt, you cannot die... unless you allow it.

the best way to fight them is to bring the light out inside you. this means meditating and quieting the mind.

bringing your body/mind to peace is the best thing we can do to fight them.

they want us to panic.... so obviously the opposite is the answer.

'be ruled by God or Ruled by tyrants' --- remember tho... god only asks that you respect yourself and each other. God's rule is the best, it is all joy...

Either you are insane, or pretending to be insane to discredit. That you start off your comments somewhat sane and get more and more insane suggests the latter.

Exactly. That is why I decided to ignore the comment and not respond. And look at the person afterwards "I came here to say exactly this".

Even the third comment "Fuck. I can't tell anymore." implies that there is some inside joke to troll this subreddit.

It is amazing that these people came out of the woodwork and proved my point completely. Just by doing what they always do, they unintentionally backed-up the premise of my post.

I've seen that a common weakness of the troll is hubris and arrogance. Trolls think they are smarter than most people, especially after a few successful ploys. They also like to compliment themselves and insult their audience in veiled way.

always those that don't understand claim it must not make sense.

because my post get more sane as they go, you however experience cognitive dissonance with what you think you know and it bothers you, so you stop ready or just go into a trance like state.

seen it happen, used to happen to me, so i felt what it is like to have ideas attack that i held to be true. these emotional ties to ideas are useless, break them, set yourself free.

Most of us can tell that you are doing this on purpose.

if i wasn't on purpose it would be an accident.

i don't believe in accidents.

But, like, what does "on purpose" really mean. Think about it. What is your purpose? That should be the real question.

Do any of us really have a purpose. A destiny or fate? Once you realize that we are merely driftwood being thrown around the currents of reality, it becomes easier to let go and float along to the waves of the almighty righteousness.

And this righteousness knows neither good or bad, or more importantly: purpose. It is all in the hands of the great and secret show. A show with no name, no face, no one to blame.

Now ask yourself again, what is happening "on purpose".

Lol, nice one.

our purpose is to express God in human form. God knows it is good/awesome/great/incredible, but knowing isn't enough, so we created a world in which that which we aren't ... is.

so this world was literally created so experience was possible. when you are one with God there is nothing to do... everything is known, all is done.

part of us is imagining itself as being separate, we decended into darkness / forgetfulness (birth) and arise anew to decide for ourselves who and what we want to be.

we decide our own fate, we actually choose ourselves to do things, Jesus chose himselve, and in so doing God also chose him. you see God wants for you what you want for you, nothing more nothing less.

i see the law of attraction is for real, therefor i take great care in what thoughts i give my attention to, and also notice when i am disturbed and don't let it get out of hand.

we know good and bad, knowledge of good and evil is necessary for intellectual growth. like plants once we see what is good, we go for it like they reach towards the light.

the idea there is no evil is an illuminati/satanic idea to justify how they live. they are wrong, they create suffering because they see themselves as gods dishing out yin and yang... keeping balance... bullshit.. if we were only good things would be great, we are not beasts after we have conquered the intellect, beyond intellect is knowing, you just know things.

the more you come to know, the easier it is and you see that trusting you intuition is the smartest thing you can do, and in fact the only thing that will help you grow is to learn to trust yourself.

Well I'm entertained at least

Put the bong down for a little while.

Came here to post exactly this. Enjoy this upvote my good sir and fellow enlightenment thinker.

Could you kindly paraphrase what exactly he is trying to say?

Fuck. I can't tell anymore.

But voting in real life is stupid and pointless, right guys?

Come on, I'm so sick of these Doomsday fantasies. "America is going under martial law!" "This sub is the last bastion of free speech!" "They're putting up FEMA camps!"

Step outside. Engage in the real world.

Come on, I'm so sick of these Doomsday fantasies. "America is going under martial law!" "This sub is the last bastion of free speech!" "They're putting up FEMA camps!" Step outside. Engage in the real world.

Perhaps you should take a break from /conspiracy? Considering that these topics are the intended topics of this subreddit!

In 2007 le Bush was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2008 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2009 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2010 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2011 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2012 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2013 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

In 2014 le No-obama was going to declare martial law and send us to FEMA camps.

And is still hasn't ever happened.

No we were never bused off to FEMA camps surrounded by barbed wire, instead they have converted the entire country into a joyless wage slavery police state where all our meta data and emails are collected, our pictures traded like baseball cards and our children haunted by phantom terrorist that lay in wait around every corner.

At least with FEMA camps we could have revolted.

Voting in real life and voting on a web forum are not the same.

Why do you only engage in threads by trying to bring them down?

Going through your comment history is like a master-class in arguing against and distracting from the point of the topic.

I'm sorry you feel my comments are a threat. Maybe you should open your mind and not follow strange ideologies.

You're hardly a threat. Don't flatter yourself.

Having an open mind means having the imagination to entertain a theory that requires you to think outside the box.

Having an open mind means having the imagination to entertain a theory that requires you to think outside the box.

My point exactly! It's scary how much of an echo chamber this sub can become, so I'm always here to break a mind or two free out of the circlejerk.

Oh wow, so you're like a self appointed super hero... saving people's lives by making sure the official story is always represented fairly in a subreddit where people go to be able to discuss things that aren't the official story.

What you don't get is that most of us also read mainstream news sources outside of conspiracy. We aren't huddled in the basement of reddit with our fingers in our ears singing "NA NA NA NA NA NA CANT HEAR YOU!"

We hear your message every day, its on TV and the radio 24/7, our friends and colleagues regurgitate it to us when they are trying to sound smart and informed. Old ladies waiting in line at the grocery store gossip about between breaths and when they aren't whispering about how they can't believe a black man is the president (8 years later).

A truly underwhelming minority of the views we are all exposed to on a daily basis stand against one of the two dominant mainstream dogmas of Republican or Democrat. You are doing us such a brave service by repeating this mantra over and over again in a space (/conspiracy) reserved for something else entirely, as if there is some universal requirement that insists that off topic background noise is the missing variable that mechanically holds together the most fundamental building blocks of matter itself.

Thank you for this service that is literally available 24/7 anywhere in the world where radio and TV are available or on any Internet connection. Without you we would surely be but lost sheep in the darkness.

Oh he'll save you from your own bullshit and insert his own. He is the superhero no one asked for and has everyone else's opinion and real feelings at heart......

He is the best kind of redditor to continue the business opportunity that is "reddit". Absolute confidence in his position, even though he openly admits he is not in the know regarding the topics he shares his opinion about. So brave.

Considering that account is also basically harassment of me, can you shitcan it now, please?

Wow, just wow. You have my sword.

Wow. This comment is perfect on every level.

You described something that I have wanted to state for a very long time but could not find the right words to do it.

I really don't see why you guys don't just ban NWOwon. He's clearly here PRIMARILY to troll.

We hear your message every day, its on TV and the radio 24/7, our friends and colleagues regurgitate it to us when they are trying to sound smart and informed. Old ladies waiting in line at the grocery store gossip about between breaths and when they aren't whispering about how they can't believe a black man is the president (8 years later).

Oh come on. We can all have our opinions on what's going on but that's absolutely no reason to say that anyone who doesn't agree with you is an idiot.

Nice strawman, I didn't see flytape call anyone an idiot.

He is correctly pointing out that people watch the news and read mainstream media and decide not to delve any further. They want a simple explanation and an easy to swallow answer.

Unfortunately, the world does not work like that.

But as people don't know what they don't know, they believe that parroting those mainstream lines makes them sound informed and up-to-date on current subjects.

This is basic sociology. You are the one who actually implied that they were idiots, not flytape.

You should look into sociology, its a fascinating subject. Then maybe you will understand his comment more.

Trying to sound smart and informed (and failing at it) doesn't make someone an idiot.

We've all heard this happen before, regardless of your status on what you do or do not believe, we have all heard someone repeat word for word what we all saw on TV last night. I never call them out on it, I'm happy that they plagiarized themselves into being popular at the office with their borrowed cleverness.

Its not like Rush didn't borrow it first, or Steven Colbert.. or whoever said it on TV first.

making sure the official story is always represented fairly

Not at all. I never pick sides before presenting my argument. It's key to keep bias free from the preliminary parts of a discussion.

I think it's cute that you think I toe some kind of party line. It shows me how afraid of actually using your brain and learning things you are. I ask you to think a little higher of the users here. We often are able to see more than just two sides of a topic.

This comment is much more entertaining if read in the voice of Yoda.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2nxx12/conspiracy_theorists_of_reddit_what_is_something/cmhwxvm

I don't have a problem with seeing two or seven sides of a topic, you made the claim that you're here to break peoples minds free of the echo chamber. That sounds a lot like you think 'we' all see only one side of the topics here and that 'you' are somehow charged with this great responsibility to save us from ourselves.

You said it! Now own it! Don't back peddle!

You said it! Now own it! Don't back peddle!

Can do! Thanks for the words of encouragement! :)

Breaking a mind free of a circlejerk requires links and valid counterarguments.

Exactly.

[deleted]

and we're completely tolerant of people like that so I dunno why people think this place is an echo chamber

Make no mistake, there is a war happening on this site

He said, making a mistake.

You are obviously 100% sure about your comment. Care to elaborate a little more, post links etc? One sarky comment not a discussion makes.

It's a reaction to the hyperbole, talk of wars and battles. It's sort of ridiculous.

There seems to be so many hidden hands here, clicking away and upvoting garbage comments that distract from the topic, and upvoting posts that make us look crazy.

Stuff like this, too. If /r/conspiracy looks crazy, it must be someone else's fault.

Do you understand that if reddit was a newspaper, it would be the most circulated paper on Earth?

How can you actually believe that it is being left alone? I'm sorry that you have not yet caught up to the reality that the internet is what TV once was, and the radio before that, and print before that, etc...

Do you understand that if reddit was a newspaper, it would be the most circulated paper on Earth?

It's a big and fragmented site, sure.

How can you actually believe that it is being left alone?

Yeah there's a lot of intelligence work done online, using false profiles and software etc. Especially since jihadi groups etc are using forums and messageboards quite a bit. I don't see much of any reason to be working away on reddit, but sure I could well be wrong.

What I don't get is the hyperbole, calling it a war and that people not up/downvoting is "losing another small battle". Using that language makes whatever point you're making null, at least to me.

I'm sorry that you have not yet caught up to the reality that the internet is what TV once was, and the radio before that, and print before that, etc...

Ah come on, don't be doing that. It's a shallow, stupid, and insulting way to get a point across.

Usually pointing out argumentative fallacies is incredibly irritating, but try to forgive me when I say straw. fucking. man.

Saying that you consciously decide to purposely disregard the point someone is making because you don't like a word or two, that is pretty immature.

Saying that you consciously decide to purposely disregard the point someone is making because you don't like a word or two, that is pretty immature.

It's hardly a word or two, it's half the title. It's intentionally over-stating a situation in order to make it seem a lot more important than it actually is. It keeps up in the main post as well.

Make no mistake, there is a war happening on this site and this is one of the last few places that matter. Once they fully take over and marginalize this subreddit, things will get much, much worse than they already are.

This is exactly the kind of thing that marginalises this subreddit. There don't have to be infiltrators when posters here are scared of their own shadow and tripping over their fingers to tell the world about it.

And here, if you're going to sling around accusations of immaturity then refrain from straw men in arguments. Or some of the other things you're accusing me of in this thread. It's tiresome.

I'm sorry that you have not yet caught up to the reality that the internet is what TV once was, and the radio before that, and print before that, etc...

etc

Your misunderstanding of the importance of the largest web-forum in the world does not invalidate my point.

Are you sort of intentionally not responding to what I actually post?

What is your point? All I hear is the same argument over and over again: "Your post hurt my fragile feelings. I don't like it when people use similes and metaphors."

Did you ever stop to consider that you are just going out of your way to find an excuse not to think about something. Maybe you don't want to believe that the world is a complex place. So you desperately hold onto a very simple version of things. "Reddit is not important. Media doesn't matter."

What is your point? All I hear is the same argument over and over again: "Your post hurt my fragile feelings. I don't like it when people use similes and metaphors."

Ugh. Come on. It's nothing to do with feelings or what I do or don't like. I'm saying it's self-defeating hyperbolic nonsense that does you and the sub absolutely no favours whatsoever.

My point is that it makes the sub look ridiculous, under the guise of trying to defend it. The over-inflated language is neither appropriate nor useful to conversation. Also the idea that it's The Infiltrators who are making this place look bad, instead of threads like this one, is itself a bit silly.

You can use the word hyperbole as many times as you want.

I call it a metaphor and my post obviously has gotten its point across or else it wouldn't be front page of the sub.

Just because you got butt-hurt by the metaphor, that means nothing to me. I am just answering your posts because I am at work and have nothing better to do at the moment.

You can use the word hyperbole as many times as you want.

Gosh thanks.

I call it a metaphor and my post obviously has gotten its point across or else it wouldn't be front page of the sub.

Fine. I choose to make fun of that kind of language because I think its ridiculous.

I am just answering your posts because I am at work and have nothing better to do at the moment.

Replying to them except where you accused me of trying to discredit an apparently "perfectly reasonable" thread, citing an irrelevant link as some sort of proof.

I wouldn't call everything in this chain an "answer" but that's the internet for ya.

If all you have to offer is "making fun" then maybe you should grow up a little. Take some time off, go for a walk, look inside and contemplate a little more.

You must be joking.

If all you have to offer is "making fun" then maybe you should grow up a little.

Started off with a joke, and now we're at the end of a god-knows-how-long comment chain - it's clearly not all I have.

If, like you say, all I had was making fun, then we wouldn't be having this conversation, would we? We've been through an explanation of the joke one or two times, a discussion of the subreddit and the whole site in general, German gold repatriation policy, then now back to the original snarky comment.

Come on.

I'm taking you seriously but it's getting more difficult to.

You are a walking, talking popcorn dispenser. This is amazing. :)

Exactly. This kind of hyperbole is the talk of someone who wants to circle jerk and be "right" rather than be informed.

Its called a metaphor.

Comparing a conflict of upvotes and downvotes to a war or battle is something that most people have no problem understanding. I am sorry that you do.

If you have nothing productive to add, why do you even enter the thread?

Don't you have the self-control to just move onto a thread where you can actually contribute something?

If you have nothing productive to add, why do you even enter the thread?

Pardon me, I guess countering ludicrous hyperbole with sarcasm isn't very friendly.

Nice to see the usual "why are you here?". Friendly place, this.

If you're going to describe reddit as a battleground with a "war happening" and hourly battles - then you're going to get a certain amount of people disagreeing and sometimes that will take the form of sarcasm.

The odd poster might actually think it's a hilarious case of a community's self-importance. Most will probably agree with you though, I guess you'll ask them all why they're here as well.

Don't you have the self-control to just move onto a thread where you can actually contribute something?

Just a few minutes ago

I suppose correcting bullshit isn't contributing either.

I followed your link and saw you trying to discredit another perfectly reasonable thread, calling it "bullshit".

Your proof is a cherry-picked link from March that says "German gold is slowly on the way home".

A 5-second google search shows that, shorty after in June, it was confirmed that the German gold was going to stay in the US.

Ah Jesus. Look at it.

OP's link is trying to assert that Germany was having a hard time getting gold from the US, comparing it to the Dutch easily moving gold and making the assertion that this was somehow connected to MH17.

Fuck knows how but that's not the point.

I showed how the pace of German gold repatriation was exactly the way the Bundesbank wanted it and not indicative of anything fishy. This was the IWB blog post's big mistake and one that was worth pointing out, I think. The assertion falls apart when the slow pace of gold movement is exactly what the Bundesbank wanted.

That the repatriation project was later cancelled doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. German elections and economic changes meant it wasn't either politically or economically necessary.

If you think that it's totally irrelevant and just an attempt to discredit, you'll have to explain that one using relevant data, not something that's generally related but completely irrelevant to the actual point being made.

And for fuck's sake it's hardly a "cherry-picked" link - it directly explains the slow pace of repatriation.

Which it should be pointed out - the link you provided does not address.

You might think it's an attempt to discredit, but the source I provided addresses the claim, whereas you may want to do more than 5 seconds of Googling next time.

I don't like your attitude one bit.

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This is too much work. Why don't we just close the community?

Everyone on this sub knows there is a core group of posters who are the most involved and aren't serving some hidden agenda.

I think it would be worth it purely because it wouldn't need posts like this.

FYI putin_hates_cats is a shill account for http://np.reddit.com/user/postnationalist

He even has a lame tumblr page. Easily found on google.

This guy may actually be a complete lunatic. Please steer clear of him. He has some sick fantasy that I am some guy who I assume he has argued with before on this website.

Sure, I'll keep on downvoting.

Downvotes are just as important as upvotes.

Agreed, which is why I downvoted your submission. Guess I'm part of the offensive in your so called war.

Curious, why would you downvote a post asking the users here to participate more?

its fine, i upvoted your post and downvoted him. and it is definitely a war. a war of idiocy.

It's the government trying to keep us down, man! All of the grievances in history can be explained by the government!

Man, you guys are losers. Don't you have something better to do in a subreddit you actually like or agree with?

I usually mind my own business, but this was so outrageous that I had to say something.

Also I found this thread off of /r/all after browsing after a while. Trust me, I would never go here for shits and giggles/

If this post is "outrageous" and bothers you so much, maybe you need to leave the house for a while. You know, interact in the real world. Get some air, bud.

Aww, you are trying to portray me as pathetic, how cute!

Maybe one day your parents will be proud of you.

[deleted]

Every time a new troll like you comes out, you further prove my point.

[deleted]

You suck at trolling. My troll account had negative in the 1000's after 16 days.

Its like amateur hour.

You're a cringe factory.

Serious question: why are you here?

It's not always government forces at work here. The general public come in here to reinforce their own paradigm. They want to live their lives oblivious to any type of nefarious activity that may require themselves to change their perspective.

They come in here and look specifically for things that do not fit into their world view. Once they find something that's "obviously insane" they make a comment designed to ridicule the OP or thread participants. In turn they are expecting others who they believe share their world view to reinforce this perspective through either upvotes or through direct interaction with whatever group they associate with.

This behavior is no different than the groups of "good ol' boy 60 somethings" who hang out at the local diner and discuss politics. They aren't there to argue but instead circle jerk each other over coffee in public.

I started a thread a couple days ago that addresses this exact argument.

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I love this thread. You post, telling people to participate more, and then you spend the whole thread telling people who disagree with you to stop posting.

There are people who disagree with you, and with valid reason, get used to it.

Do you really not understand the difference between trolling and participating?

I do understand the difference. Not everyone disagreeing with you is trolling. I'm not trolling and yet I completely disagree with your post. This subreddit isn't a battleground, its a forum for discussion. Its purpose shouldn't be to circlejerk about conspiracies, but rather to discuss them, entertaining both sides.

You are speaking as if there isn't solid evidence that social media is being manipulated.

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The US government sent me to discredit you. Also, they want to throw you guys off the trail about 9/11. They did do it. You guys are too smart.

Wow, and you call me a cringe factory.

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You need to understand how subversion and basic manipulation works.

This is not a comment that legitimately "shows a different point of view":

or the majority of reddit agrees with the verdict and, since no one gives a fuck about reddiquette, downvotes anything they disagree with.

The topic was not even about Ferguson. Ferguson was used an example of the statement that Reddit is gamed and being manipulated.

So whether or not the majority of users agree with the verdict is irrelevant, for one. Secondly, even if the majority of users DO agree with the Ferguson verdict, that has nothing to do with how propaganda works. Propaganda is not designed to primarily give information, it is designed to get people all wrapped up in emotions and cause a mob mentality.

So the fact that the front page of reddit was one giant "Hey everyone, black people suck right!" is plenty proof that reddit is being used to spread propaganda. Alone, maybe not, but as we have seen this happen time and time again and as there is already well established proof that reddit is being gamed, a topic which is encouraging a discussion on the subject should not be immediately subverted by a quick, 2-bit comment that basically boils down to "You're wrong, reddit is not being gamed. Because I say so."

And that comment was then upvoted to the top of the thread. And once again, alone, maybe I could forgive it. But this happens all the time. Not to mention the fact that that user and many like him/her, are only going into comment threads to throw out the 2-bit response that attempts to invalidate the topic. Every time.

I have problems with some of the conspiracies posted here and sometimes I challenge them. And I agree with many here and I enter into discussions about them. That makes me a real user. Someone who only comments to discredit conspiracies is alright with me, when they are backing up their argument and actually taking the time to provide reasons.

But someone who only comments to discredit conspiracies here, and provides no counterpoints, just the 5-second, mainstream answer that a grade-school drop-out could come up with just by parroting the mainstream, this is a CANCER to this subreddit.

This place is supposed to be a thinking ground. Comments like the one I posted do the exact opposite. They encourage not thinking. They encourage looking at a subject from the shallowest possible angle and then mocking anyone who sees something deeper and wants to build a conversation with other people willing to dig deeper.

And comments like that are constantly upvoted in this subreddit. But 90% of the time, this happens when the thread gets very popular and reaches front-page with a high score. Why? Because there are just as many people here trying to turn off and stop the thinking, as there are people fighting to keep thought alive.

So those comments get upvoted by the crowd that wants to accept the basic, mainstream answer and then give the other people here the impression that it is true. It is called manufacturing consensus. We see it all the time in history.

Its like saying "Hey, there are a lot of funny coincidences regarding the collapse of WTC7, lets have a conversation about it" and then the top comment becomes "WTC7 collapsed because it was hit by debris from the other towers." We all have already heard that line. The reason that we want to dig deeper is because we have heard that line and don't believe it. We don't believe the world is that simple. We understand that reality is more complex and want to use our imaginations to try to fill in more based on what we do know.

Fuck. I can't tell anymore.

Having an open mind means having the imagination to entertain a theory that requires you to think outside the box.

My point exactly! It's scary how much of an echo chamber this sub can become, so I'm always here to break a mind or two free out of the circlejerk.

Could you kindly paraphrase what exactly he is trying to say?

Okay let me address the rest.

Upvotes and downvotes do not matter

So you believe that there are not millions of real people on this site being exposed to the information being upvoted and downvoted?

What exactly "doesn't matter"?

you are not some white knight of information

Okay..... Are you bothered by people who try to get involved in whats going on around them?

You clearly just want unchallenged validation and circle jerking

So this is your take from me telling people to vote more on the site? I didn't tell anyone how to vote. Just to do it.

Maybe you should take a break from this sub if it bothers you so much. Go outside for a while.

Egypt cutting off the internet is proof of the power of the internet.

Exactly.

No we were never bused off to FEMA camps surrounded by barbed wire, instead they have converted the entire country into a joyless wage slavery police state where all our meta data and emails are collected, our pictures traded like baseball cards and our children haunted by phantom terrorist that lay in wait around every corner.

At least with FEMA camps we could have revolted.