Yeah, you are right on Rob - this subreddit has definitely become gamed by the wrong sort of people. You'll notice there are 268k subscribers, but most posts have very few comments compared to subs with a similar population. Many are subscribed for the express purpose of downvoting, posting garbage and misinformation, or posting things to make the sub look bad.

Those that speak up about it too harshly are banned. This is the typical story on all of Reddit.

This sub used to be the exception, where the obvious shills were not tolerated, but that's gone by the wayside in favor of rules that protect them above legitimate users that expose them.

As for requiring a dancing bear - well, your AMA came on the heels of a hoax AMA which seems to have had some "help". A lot of the long time users of the sub and Reddit are understandably skeptical, though I think what proof you provided was fine, and there were definitely some trolls just fanning the fire.

That might be better than letting what was once a great place for discussion slide further into being a forum full of junker shills.

You're not wrong.

I find it sad, especially the enshrinement of rules to protect shills against exposure by actual contributors.

I wanted to say something about certain replies and posters in your AMA, but again... pointing out the blatantly obvious shilling is met with a ban, because the rules protect shills now.

Edit: Can you elaborate on user "illuminatedwax" at all? Did the mods tell you something about that user (besides that he could delete the sub, and they don't know who he is).

Edit again: Derp - the mystery top mod.

Can't say I disagree at all. Sadly the people who have a way to change it refuse to do so and instead want to make sure that it stays this way and gets worse.

I just looked back through some of illuminatedwax's comments, and it appears he stopped posting here a few years ago.

At the time, they were having the same sorts of issues that exist here now (but are far worse due the "shills are protected over real users of the sub" rules).

Illuminatedwax was advocating turning in the shills and such to the Reddit admins for them to police downvote brigades etc.

At this point, I think everyone is well aware that admins policing such people is a total thing of the past - it just doesn't happen. If anything, some admins seem to be in bed with shilly posters (adamwho is a good example of one who likely has admin friends).

If you'd like to know more about illuminatedwax, check here: http://redective.com/

If you sort by subreddit you'll see some of his posts in this sub around the 10th page.

My recommendation? Don't waste your time typing too much to this sub. It can be deleted at any moment by some anonymous reddit user....

I've been on Reddit for >8 years, and on this sub for a least half that (this is not my first acct.). So that ship has sailed.

I've had a first hand seat for the transformation of Reddit over the years into the censored, gamed, shill infested propaganda hole it is today.

I'll continue to discuss with the intelligent users and call the trolls out whenever I can, without breaking the magic rule of exposing the poor defenseless shills.

That said, I've been looking elsewhere more recently, but most are too narrow, not populated, or more gamed and shilly than this sub. I rarely look at the rest of Reddit, though, as most subs are little more than statist orgies glorifying every state sponsored crime one could care to name.

By "here" I mean specifically in r/conspiracy, not just on Reddit. He hasn't posted in the sub recently, that I can tell :p

Again, I agree, it's ridiculous.

Unfortunately I don't see it changing when certain people have flatly refused to improve the sub and actually take a hand in moderation.

As for illuminatedwax deleting the sub... I'm personally not that bothered by it. It would at least allow the possibility of getting new people in who aren't afraid to squash the rampant trolls that infest the sub now.

Might be a useful way to gain traction to moving to a new sub (w/o a deletion happening, that is, just migration) without an unaccountable absentee mod at the top, though.

What in the world kind of logic is this?

Recommend he delete everything to pre-empt that in the future he could delete everything?

To be perfectly honest, it looks from the outside like you feel jilted that you got grilled a bit, from people who were fooled before, and now you are trying to get some revenge. Surely you see how it looks just like that?

What does that have to do with the actual point I made?

My question is how does it make any sense at all, to ask everything be deleted, on the rather out of the blue 'threat' that it could all be deleted in the future? Isn't that like saying... well I may as well shoot myself in the head, cause I might die tomorrow in a car wreck anyway.

Once again that does not respond, even in the slightest, to my point about your recommendation.

I'll accept everything you've said, because it's true (Btw, it's also true about the forum that you run, you could do exactly the same thing).

Now I've accepted it, and please remember, I do agree, wax could totally do that, and I accept that entirely.

With that said, I say again.

My question is how does it make any sense at all, to ask everything be deleted, on the rather out of the blue 'threat' that it could all be deleted in the future? Isn't that like saying... well I may as well shoot myself in the head, cause I might die tomorrow in a car wreck anyway.

I think the idea behind deleting the sub is to escape shady users/mods, but to not leave likeminded users hanging around waiting for r/conspiracy to become active. I think he's saying that by deleting the sub, the trail might go cold for for shilly users, at least for a little while.

Are you going to actually answer the question I've asked?

I mean... dang man. I'm honestly trying to understand this "Kill it because it might die someday" logic, and you just will not even acknowledge the question.

You do me a favor and answer the question that I've asked at least three times, and I will answer all the questions you've asked right after.

From ashes grow.....

I assumed you'd have more to say on the matter than that. Are you actually happy with that answer? That's not a justification for the recommendation, it doesn't explain the logic of it. It's a buzzphrase...

I wouldn't think you of all people would be happy with a catchphrase answer.

Are you screwing with me?

With that said..

This is normally an indicator that someone has moved topics to something else, or is expanding upon the subtext of an answer.

All you did after that was ask me questions. I normally don't answer questions with questions.

Okay, well that conversation is over apparently. A whole lot of typing in circles.

As I said you kinda sorta didn't actually answered the question, so I will answer the ones you asked.

Nobody should actually care whether Wax "could" delete the entire thing, no more than your people should care if you deleted the entire thing. Since it doesn't actually change anything. Whether people know your or don't know you, you still could do it and there would be no actual change in any way.

If the forum was deleted tomorrow, I'd know either reddit admins did it on some charge of brigading, which whether the mods allow it or not, does occur since even the mods can't control thousands of people.

Or, it would be Wax.

Either way, the logic of "Kill it cause someday it MIGHT die" still makes no sense.

Lastly, there is literally no evidence of this looming 'threat' that he would delete it. The only evidence that it could happen is that someone of some recognizable repute is giving him a recommendation to do so. That is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy in my opinion.

Rob is notorious for dodging questions that poke holes in his arguments (just look at his two AMAs). Nice job calling him out, though.

I am psynnn. I don't give out any info on this sub. Too many stalkers and such

Who cares about who controls the sub? Why is it important. Reddit is for entertainment. You think it is something more?

Ha this is just a place to kill time and maybe learn a few things. You think its a place to get youtube likes or get a point across? Pffff silly rabbit.

You want your point to be made then start a movement on a site you host with a firewall. Choice is an illusion given to those without power by ones that do.

Best quote from a movie in a long time.

It isnt my sub. It belongs to conde Nast. They own the servers and the rights. Also I dont subscribe to this sub.

You are trying to insite an argument again. I am as calm as a Hindu cow. Your answers are just showing the sadness that is your outlook. You want to shift blame on a topic that is already a bad thing in here from what I gather. Mod team got duped into thinking someone was actually who they said they were and turns out they were not.

Meh shit happens. Only in here would it be as blown up as it was. The person that did this is what everyone shoukd be focusing on. Why would they take the time to long con the mods of this sub? I mean really. Why would you want to waste all that time?

For the lulz? No that makes no sence. I wish people would focus on why and stop blaming mods.

Do you know who conde nast is? They own reddit. The servers which it is stored on and the likeness of reddit. Yeah they own it.

I'd say it's closely related to phenomena like confirmation bias. "Hey, this guy said something I agree with! Let's trust everything he says and not question other stuff!"