As soon as it happened I told my buddies that this was a Ukrainian 9/11 to a degree. It was fantastic Problem, Reaction, Solution which was multifaceted and brilliant.

Look what has happened since. The country's currency has been in the toilet, the government is a US puppet, and it's been reported that the government has unleashed its air force and serious firepower against the "Russian-backed" rebels who voted to leave months before the crash.

It also affected the supply of natural gas to Europe (and something the Russians game planned for with Nord Stream in 2011), where they can simply cut off those pipelines if Ukraine won't agree to pay back the billions owed (that they can just take for their own people due to how pipelines work).

If we could get Assad out of the way for the South Pars pipeline, the US would be in fucking business, but our efforts to frame Assad with chemical weapons failed last summer, and we had to manufacture this ISIS beheading thing to get the 'muricans to be OK with airstrikes.

Our boys are trying to get the job done, and the losers are the usual: the proles of Ukraine (obviously), Russia (sanctions have to be hurting them), all of those being brutalized in the Middle East by the ISIS Team (who surprisingly don't even try and attack Israel), and possibly EU citizenry if there's issues with natural gas availability.

But us 'muricans can't get enough of The Voice, the Sons Of Anarchy finale and gasoline creeping towards $2.00/gal (thanks King Saud) and don't care or are far to distracted. It really is a shame.

Level headed comment as always JCP

I appreciate this comment more than you know Deadautomation.

I've had a busy week or two at my first job, but plan on being far more active here for the rest of 2014 in a week. I hope to hear more of you. I'm going to need you.

Long days and pleasant nights, friend.

Glad I can be a source of positive reinforcement. Your clear headed viewpoints and rational thinking truly help myself and others to decipher fact from fiction. Please continue, this sub needs you.

Probably made my day dude (it's been a tough one).

Maybe it's time to start that podcast thing me and a few guys around here keep talking about.

See you around.

I think "they" were trying to shoot down the plane so it crashed in territory held by Russian freedom fighters, but for what I heard the plane took a sharp left after being hit and moved away before being finished off. If the plane crashed in the area intended, NATO forces could have moved in ("invaded") under pretext of securing the crash site, but with the real purpose of assisting Ukraine troops. But when it crashed outside of that zone there was no context to launch plan B.

Ukraine is losing that war. NH17 shoot down was an attempt to reverse Ukraine/NATO/Zionist fortunes.

So we haven't heard anything more about the crash because it no longer serves the intended purpose.

the plane landed/crashed (or pieces were planted there from trucks) into an area between rebel territories, the isolated pocket of Donetski and the larger main area.

the rebels do not control the train system, the bodies were loaded onto a Kiev controlled train.

There was talk for a while about moving in NATO troops to the crash site, but it died out a few days after the crash -- once they realized the site was not in the area they needed to control.

Most people have the attention span of a small child. People don't remember MH17 or it's ill-fated twin MH370.

We Malaysians remember it very well, and we are beyond extremely angry.

I don't think I'll ever forget about the other plane. That's the one that disappeared, right? Knowing the fate of MH17 and passengers is awful, and I feel terrible for those people, but you gotta wonder what happened to the other plane. Probably down in the ocean somewhere, but still that mystery.

Of course people remember CNN running the story for two fucking months straight, 24/7. To the point where people begged them to stop talking about it.

This, but also, I really think OP needs to check more SECURE sources (assuming its not a Russian troll). Most evidence points to rebels whom thought they were attacking a military plane. FFS, they even tweeted about it and deleted that... How much evidence do you need? These people holding there dicks in front of the wreckage w a sign saying we did it!?

yeah clearly that tweet is proof. it's not like that could've been faked in any way. duh OP.

Tweets are the only proof the US government has provided for any of their assertions... And they made some of those tweets themselves!

What proof is 'proof' for you? Putin admits it on national television? Like russians ever admitted to any war crimes.... (Katyn/ Katyń).

What proof is 'proof' for you?

Not a damn tweet. Seriously.

Personally I asumed that the so-called rebels shot the plane down by mistake. That story makes sense, but there has been absolutely no evidence presented that supports that story.

So now i'm in doubt, because there has to be evidence.

i think the silence implies that the truth won't be told & unfortunately, the public can't force the truth from the guilty party.

it's not that no one cares - people can demand answers but they'll just get a bunch of polite words meaning nothing.

No one cares unless it's on the news. If it's on the news then it sets off a chain of reasoning that implies that it's worth knowing about because professional news authorities vetted it for its significance. The viewer will also remember the news presented to him in order to keep up with conversations in the office and to avoid appearing ignorant in front of his peers.

Edit: Maybe downvoters misunderstood. It's because of the implication that 'if it's on the news, then it's important to know' that the media is able to tell people what they should know or think. In other words, it's not news because it's important, it's important because it's news.

ask why the many photographs of the MH17 wreckage were photoshop constructions.

And what sub-group could push such. (Keyword sub)

Or ask IF they were.

The Ukrainian president was in Australia last week for a two day state visit. The PM Tony Abbott said the MH17 tragedy had brought their two countries together blah blah blah. So now it seems we are going to sell them our coal and uranium because according to Abbott Australia is an energy superpower, and Ukraine has been suffering, in his own words, energy shocks. Australia, Netherlands and Ukraine have signed a secrecy pact on information regarding the crash and Malaysia has been left out of the investigation altogether. Curious considering they owned the plane. A joint bid by Australian relatives of those that were killed to have an independent investigation by the UN has been rejected. Tony Abbott threatened to shirt-front Putin at the G20 over MH17, that was a diplomatic gaffe but we'd expect nothing less from our PM, he's not very popular with the voters. If it comes out that Ukraine was responsible, he'll be well and truly up shit creek in a barbed wire canoe without a paddle, even though he's pretty much up there already.
Where is the black box info.....the tapes from Ukraine ATC...? The silence is deafening.

Media silence? I seem to remember round the clock coverage for weeks.

They should still be covering it! "Breaking news on CNN, the plane is still on the ground, more at 11."

And here where I live, the Netherlands, there's still coverage. They brought back truckloads of pieces of the plane in an attempt to reconstruct it and figure out what happened.

WHOOSH

Still haven't heard the recordings from the black boxes on board the plane. The Dutch government is refusing to release it. I'm sure if they wanted to put the nail into Russia's coffin they would have been released ASAP. Makes one wonder what they are hiding by not releasing this info publicly...

They're not releasing it because the investigation is ongoing.

It can't be used as a crisis tool anymore especially inactive environment. How is seeking the truth going to truly help anyone in power? It was a big deal only because it was convenient.

Most people don't believe the public be like it is, but it do.

It wasn't blamed on Russia, it was blamed on rebels who enjoy some unofficial support from Russia.

If you think there's "mainstream media silence" on the crash then please, look again.

It wasn't blamed on Russia, it was blamed on rebels

Semantics.

If you think there's "mainstream media silence" on the crash then please, look again.

I don't need to look. I have ears and live in the world. When the flight went down, it was literally impossible to escape the media circus screaming from the ends of the Earth about how this was all Putin's fault.

Then we were told the investigation was going to be led by the Dutch, and it was implied by Western media that this was only a formality because of the mountains of evidence against the Russian-backed rebels.

Since then....crickets.

The silence is deafening.

Unless you can post some mainstream media links that show the mountains of evidence we were assured the Dutch would release, since the case was so "cut and dry" and it was so "obviously the rebels".

And don't insult my intelligence by posting some random blurbs by mainstream sources. You know that there is a difference between small web articles and the typical media full-frontal assault on all channels.

Anyways, reddit is mainstream media at this point and judging by the ridiculous bias for upvoting anything that demonizes Russia, it is blatantly obvious that if anything were found, we would have heard it by now. This site would have beaten that story like a dead horse. I check this site every single day, both on peak European and peak North American time.

Semantics.

No, not semantics. A completely different statement altogether.

Unless you think that the Donetsk People's Republic and God knows how many other separatist groups are one and the same with the Russian state.

Then we were told the investigation was going to be led by the Dutch, and it was implied by Western media that this was only a formality because of the mountains of evidence against the Russian-backed rebels.

Since then....crickets.

The silence is deafening.

The Dutch accident board investigation is ongoing. The final report isn't slated to be ready until late 2015. These things take time. You don't release everything you're doing as you're doing it in an aviation accident investigation. That's not how anyone does it and it's not going to happen here.

(source - Live in the Netherlands and work in aviation)

And that's just the aviation side of it. The criminal investigation is by around 200 staff of the Dutch Ministry of Justice, and you certainly don't run around releasing everything you've got as soon as you get it, especially when there are many nations cooperating and providing intelligence.

Unless you can post some mainstream media links that show the mountains of evidence we were assured the Dutch would release, since the case was so "cut and dry" and it was so "obviously the rebels".

Why would you imagine this would be released while a complicated investigation is still going on? Where did you get that idea that we were "assured" of this?

It took weeks/months for the area around the crash site to become secure enough for materiel to be taken, that's where your metallurgy and fragment identification comes in. If you think the Dutch aren't being scrupulous in this you're wrong.

This is why the media coverage isn't what it used to be. Becuase the work that's happening now is slow, painstaking and not public.

There was plenty of coverage of the memorial out at Eindhoven airport last month, there is constant coverage in Dutch (and I imagine Malaysian) media.

And don't insult my intelligence by posting some random blurbs by mainstream sources.

Don't insult the intelligence of everyone reading this by stating that the difference between the Russian state and pro-Russian Ukrainian rebels is nonexistent.

Anyways, reddit is mainstream media at this point and judging by the ridiculous bias for upvoting anything that demonizes Russia, it is blatantly obvious that if anything were found, we would have heard it by now.

It's nothing like "blatantly obvious" for reasons already stated - these investigations don't go public on everything they get all at once. Like anything else, you build a case. The conclusion you are drawing is that since we haven't heard anything there's nothing to hear, which is ridiculous to the point of parody.

Especially on an investigation that isn't slated to conclude until August 2015.

No, not semantics. A completely different statement altogether.

Unless you think that the Donetsk People's Republic and God knows how many other separatist groups are one and the same with the Russian state.

I don't think that, however, the Western media has done a bang-up job convincing millions of people that these two entities are one and the same. The exact same tactic was used to convince millions of people that Saddam Hussein was somehow indirectly responsible for 9/11. Both worked brilliantly.

The Dutch accident board investigation is ongoing. The final report isn't slated to be ready until late 2015. These things take time.

Yes, as usual, a perfectly convenient timeline so that those actually responsible get the benefit of the public no longer caring since they will have moved on to the next flavor of the month. And isn't it amazing how that always happens to benefit the government story?

You don't release everything you're doing as you're doing it in an aviation accident investigation. That's not how anyone does it and it's not going to happen here.

That's funny because I distinctly remember hundreds of articles blaming the Russian-backed "rebels" during the initial aviation accident investigation.

The weak point you are trying to make is based completely on backing up the current deafening silence. You have decided that this silence is normal and you are building an argument around that conclusion. If we were not experiencing this silence right now and getting "leaks" from the investigation that justified the initial "It was Adolf Putler fault!" reaction of Western media, then you would be sitting here claiming that "leaks like this happen all the time, it is normal during an aviation accident investigation".

Basically, here you are arguing (for the 1000th time) that we should all stop actually looking deeper than top layer. No thanks.

I have heard the official story and the official explanations a million times. They are being shouted at me in every aspect of my life from co-workers, to the car radio, to the TV, internet, Facebook, reddit, etc...

This is a conspiracy subreddit, if you think that you can repeat these things and I am just going to say "OMG, I never thought about that! I have literally heard it a million times but it took one million and one for me to finally get it! I guess I should just turn my brain off and let the TV do the thinking for me. Wow, it so easy now!!!" then you are wrong.

I don't think that, however, the Western media has done a bang-up job convincing millions of people that these two entities are one and the same. The exact same tactic was used to convince millions of people that Saddam Hussein was somehow indirectly responsible for 9/11. Both worked brilliantly.

No, back then you had top US government figures making exactly that stated case - that Saddam was in league with Al-Qaeda. Nobody reasonable is going around saying "Russia shot down this plane". Don't throw "semantics" at a complex issue.

Yes, as usual, a perfectly convenient timeline so that those actually responsible get the benefit of the public no longer caring since they will have moved on to the next flavor of the month. And isn't it amazing how that always happens to benefit the government story?

You cannot actually be this stupid.

Air accident investigations are complex things. It takes time. If you don't understand this I'd be happy to explain more.

Look at two high-profile ones from the last couple of years. Similar aircraft types (one the exact same type, both hull-losses from well-regarded carriers).

Speedbird 38 - 2 years from accident to final report

Air France 447 - Over three years between accident and final report.

If you're going to make the argument that we haven't solved MH17 due to the Dutch government waiting for the public to forget that a couple of hundred of their citizens died in suspicious circumstances, and fabricating a convincing cover story you will have to do an awful lot better.

This isn't a convenient timeline, it's the actual timeline of these kind of accidents. Of course we have interim brief reports in such cases, the're's already been one on MH17.

The weak point you are trying to make is based completely on backing up the current deafening silence. You have decided that this silence is normal and you are building an argument around that conclusion.

No. I know it's normal because this is my field and I know what to expect.

You appear to have decided it's because "those responsible" (whoever they are) have decided to delay until the public have forgotten about the crash, without checking up to see how long a modern wide-body hull-loss investigation can take.

If we were not experiencing this silence right now and getting "leaks" from the investigation that justified the initial "It was Adolf Putler fault!" reaction of Western media, then you would be sitting here claiming that "leaks like this happen all the time, it is normal during an aviation accident investigation".

Alright if we could have one conversation where you don't put words in my mouth or getting onto whatever my m,otivations might be that would be lovely. You're making things personal when they really shouldn't be.

I'm commenting on this because it happens to be in my line of work and I thought your title was entirely misleading. If that's somehow unacceptable to you that isn't my problem.

Basically, here you are arguing (for the 1000th time) that we should all stop actually looking deeper than top layer. No thanks.

I started off by correcting the title. Then to correcting ideas about accident investigation. Nothing to do with layers. If something is wrong, it's wrong.

This is a conspiracy subreddit, if you think that you can repeat these things and I am just going to say "OMG, I never thought about that! I have literally heard it a million times but it took one million and one for me to finally get it! I guess I should just turn my brain off and let the TV do the thinking for me. Wow, it so easy now!!!" then you are wrong.

I couldn't give two shits about what you're going to say or what you've heard or how many times you've heard it. It's the poor bastards who read this and think that no news during an accident investigation is evidence of foul play I feel sorry for.

of course it's a conspiracy subreddit, that doesn't mean it has to be a total bullshit subreddit at the same time.

Well let's see. The plane was carrying one American, and it was flying from the Netherlands to Malaysia. Doesn't seem like something the american media would or should care about much. Hell, the coverage it got is more than I would expect from something that barely even has anything to do with America.

All mass airline or boating disasters are world news.

and it was news. Why should we still be reporting on something when nothing new has happened?

Lol @ this dudes posting history. Every 3rd post "something something zionist"

Because it's as yet wholly unsolved. The narrative the Zionist corporate news pushed has been completed debunked as false. A massive lie yet again.

something something Zionists

That bullshit "antisemite" whining no longer holds ANY water. But, by all means, keep trying buddy.

Though, thanks for so readily exposing yourself, /u/BoltingUpSince91

exposing myself as what? Wait, lemme guess. A zionist?

No, just exactly what you are. So transparent.

There's that cryptic conspiracy theorist talk that I love...

Muah!

Two words: Zionist terrorism. They had the clone. It was allegedly payback.

I have yet to see a single thing you haven't blamed on the "Zionists". Aurora, Sandy Hook, Boston Bombing, even Elliot Rogers were all their fault according to you.

Everyone needs a boogieman.

They own all corporate news networks. Without them, not a single false event would have been pushed out on the world. Its as transparent as it's shown. Use some critical thought, friend.

So you think the Jews are being everything?

"Are being everything?" No. Being as they've always been. Absolutely.

Behind**

You think the Jews are behind everything?

All mass airline or boating disasters are world news.

That bullshit "antisemite" whining no longer holds ANY water. But, by all means, keep trying buddy.

Though, thanks for so readily exposing yourself, /u/BoltingUpSince91