[OC]Regarding the "abolish the CIA" idea and discussion: What people miss is an accurate history of the past 50 years of CIA "control".

34  2015-01-06 by [deleted]

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Rove

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

I saw recently that there have been increasingly serious discussions about the CIA, what they are doing, and how much control citizens have over their actions. What most people are missing is simple perspective. What if you shift your perspective from one that believes that we are a "free country" where we have "democratic elections" to a perspective of a country that "does whatever it takes in the name of 'national security'"?

Do the actions of the US government over the past 50 years align with the wishes of a people who "love freedom and democracy" or do they align with the wishes of a small group of people who drive the country in the direction of their choosing based on "national security"?

Most people think that when there is a coup, that it looks like this: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20tun0_general-zia-ul-haq-declaring-martial-law_news

What if, instead, it looks more like this: http://media.trb.com/media/photo/2011-11/264863940-21114236.jpg

What the events were leading up to this or why it "really" happened are not really relevant anymore. There is too much evidence of our own government's involvement in this murder to dismiss out of hand. The most succinct narrative is that JFK was not well-liked among those in the "intelligence-security" apparatus for various reasons and the only viable excuse there could possibly be for assassinating one's own president would be for "the greater good". "The greater good", in this case, has been renamed "national security".

And for the past 50 years, this excuse of "national security" has allowed these agencies to gain more power and control. The simple pretense is this: If we don't dominate someone else first, then they will try to dominate us.

Without going into volumes of detail, I think most people would agree that this singular, over-arching policy provides a better narrative to the history of the past 50 years than a narrative of a government for "freedom that is controlled by the people."

So, if you are still with me, then that is where we are at. A group of people staged a coup a long time ago and have endeavored to maintain and grow their power through this secretive "national security state" excuse that gives themselves unchecked power and accountability.

So what are you prepared to actually do about it? I saw a lot of suggestions about abolishing the CIA, but are you prepared to deal with the consequences?

Is Rex 84 a joke? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84

Rex 84, short for Readiness Exercise 1984, was a classified "scenario and drill" developed by the United States federal government to suspend the United States Constitution, declare martial law, place military commanders in charge of state and local governments, and detain large numbers of American citizens who are deemed to be "national security threats", in the event that the President declares a "State of National Emergency".

We Americans like to think things like "that would never happen here" and dismiss the idea that our government does terrible things without investigating. Our need to feel like "the good guys" prevents us from taking an honest look at the types of activities we are [at most times forced] supporting. If voting actually worked, then the Obama presidency should have been a great success. Hope and Change were clearly desired by the people and we got none of it. Now that we are approaching another election year, this grand charade will be trotted out again to placate the masses.

So while we are allowed to influence whether Rod and Todd can get "legally married" or not (which is only a problem because of government in the first place), we are not allowed to have an opinion or influence whether we use military support to ensure BP/Exxon etc.. secure oil or other raw materials through covert coups and, many times, outright violence.

We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false.-- William Casey, CIA Director

Is this just something that people say? In what context is it even okay for a CIA director to say such a thing and be deemed a suitable person to be the CIA director? If democratic elections are based on having an informed public, then what does it mean when there are systems in place to intentionally deceive the public and have them "vote" based on those deceptions?

Are there any moral limits that this group has? So what is next?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_flag

False flag (or black flag) describes covert military or paramilitary operations designed to deceive in such a way that the operations appear as though they are being carried out by entities, groups, or nations other than those who actually planned and executed them. Operations carried out during peace-time by civilian organizations, as well as covert government agencies, may by extension be called false flag operations if they seek to hide the real organization behind an operation. Geraint Hughes uses the term to refer to those acts carried out by "military or security force personnel, which are then blamed on terrorists."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/06/24/cheney-predicts-far-deadlier-attack-against-u-s-in-next-decade/

Cheney continued: "You can imagine what would happen if somebody could smuggle a nuclear device, put it in a shipping container and drive it down the beltway outside Washington, D.C."

http://www.mediaite.com/online/why-lindsey-graham-thinks-the-u-s-will-be-nuked/

“I believe that if we get Syria wrong, within six months, and you can quote me on this, there will be a war between Iran and Israel over their nuclear program,” Graham told a crowd in South Carolina. “My fear is that it won’t come to America on top of a missile, it’ll come in the belly of a ship in the Charleston or New York harbor.”

So what do you think that the people in control of these things are willing to do if they don't get their way? Do you think they are really beyond using a nuclear event to catalyze the next war?

http://benswann.com/president-obama-fires-high-ranking-nuclear-chiefs/

In an unprecedented move, reports of the Obama administration firing a second military commander of the U.S. Nuclear Weapons system have surfaced. These officers have some of the highest clearances you can get, and have been in charge of the nation’s most sensitive nuclear arsenals.

We already know they are willing to send our own young people off to die for their interests and have killed millions around the world in the name of "national security". Do you think that these people are just going to say "Oh well, I guess they figured out our scam... the jig is up!"? Or is it more likely that there are plans in place to maintain control should there be an event that threatens their power?

This not a kind and benevolent group of people that we are dealing with. I hope that, at the very least, I have offered some food for thought.

14 comments

If the CIA is shut down, it will be because intelligence has already been largely moved to DoD and other agencies. There are a dozen other CIAs that most people have never heard of.

The people who are in control want to stay in control. They have a great life now and they do not want anything to change. The only way that anything would change would be if A. the people somehow decided to elect a 3rd party to power. B. Revolution C. Outside force (natural or human) causes change.

A. the people somehow decided to elect a 3rd party to power.

This is incorrect. They were going to declare a "constitutional crisis" if Perot were elected.

Furthermore, when looking through the lens of "national security", isn't the president the person who is the single greatest threat, thus legitimizing any attempt to defraud an election and ensure "your guy" gets into office?

The presidency is not left up to a "vote" if it does not go the way they want it to.

Furthermore, is it an issue for the CIA to run their own candidates? Have they done this before and who?

Well, they were able to get rid of Perot by threatening to disrupt his daughter's wedding. So, I guess he was not the toughest guy.

Yeah, so, if a bad Perot type guy won, the current President, say Obama could declare a national emergency and attempt to void the election. It would probably work at this point. The people are so dumbed down.

Well, Bush did not win in 2000 but he still ended up the President. So, yeah.

I do not view the CIA as a group which runs candidates, but rather a bunch of thugs that pretty much does whatever the president wants, perhaps more for Repubs than Dems. They tried to control policy under JFK and fucked up. This lead to JFK getting pissed off at them, and wanting to get rid of them perhaps. Bush Sr. was head of CIA so there is a tight connection there.

do not view the CIA as a group which runs candidates, but rather a bunch of thugs that pretty much does whatever the president wants, perhaps more for Repubs than Dems.

Just have to correct this. It is very clear from the history that it works the other way around. The "institution of national security" transcends presidencies, thus their justification for control over that presidency.

Jimmy Carter's presidency is a short-lived one where he tried to push back against the CIA (fired GHW Bush) who returned fire with an oil embargo and the October Surprise.

Thanks for the discussion. I'm a little annoyed that I just saw complaints about not enough self-posts and too many garbage posts. The fact that only a few people actually took the time to read, understand, and respond is why people are not so motivated to self-post.

They were going to declare a "constitutional crisis" if Perot were elected.

Do you have any more info on this? What would have been the basis for the crisis? Is this documented anywhere?

Sounds juicy.

It does thanks. And kudos for the great self post. Part of why these things don't hit the front like the memes do is because people actually have to take the time to read them and think about it. It's unfortunate but that's just the nature of reddit and the internet in general.

Do you think this could be trotted out again for a new 3rd party candidate?

It will never get that far anymore. Just view it from the lens of "whatever it takes for national security". How would you do it?

The first thing you do is rig the candidates: You profile each candidate for if they are blackmailable, if they have had long-standing alliances with the agency... etc. It might even be a good idea to have a few of your own agents running as a type of "manchurian candidate" to carry the torch. Not to go into too much detail in one post, but if you examine Obama's past, then you see a history that is cloudy and the propaganda piece book that he wrote. By doing this, he essentially "set the record straight" for himself... just as even Barbara Bush has done for her husband in her memoirs. It's just classic spycraft.

Then you rig the voters. What is it that you do when you watch TV? You begin to normalize what the "conversation" is about based on the influences of what you perceive to be important to others. Most of the information we get is done so impersonally that we allow media to dictate what is actually important. Then, people latch on to these issues because of our tribalistic nature and need to be accepted and it ends up being enough of a distraction to satisfy most people. The more money you spend, the more you can influence the population and distract them. Remember that the CIA does the dirty work for all of the oil companies, large engineering firms, banks, and mining companies, so they have access to and influence over amounts of money the average person could not comprehend.

Then, if all else fails, you just rig the votes. We've all seen the diebold voting machine videos where the guy testifies in front of congress. You can't simply ignore that... or the Bush/Gore results or the ron paul vote-flipping for that matter.

They will never allow it to get that far. If the people become too dissatisfied, then I would expect another false-flag attack to instill more delusional nationalism and patriotism to garner support for "the government"... whatever that is anymore.

Give up... I realize that's not the one you want to hear, but it's the honest truth -- the CIA, NSA, DARPA, and others are supreme, and it's up to little people like you and me to go on fighting about who does what, while the CIA decides what's next on the agenda. I don't know what to do -- I hear you, I understand perfectly, I agree with you -- but that's .1%. The main body of Americans are totally fine doing the CIA's bidding, sadly.

3.5% of people being awake and unified are all that's required to change a regime without violence. History has shown this.

I've convinced a lot of my friends, and once the Gen X'ers start inheriting things, I feel a lot will change. We're already building a parallel economy with clean food; sound, anonymous money; and have crammed much innovation into the last 10 years. The world is changing. Decentralization is coming. Governments are going the way of the dinosaur.

Have faith, help how you can, and let's create a better world where we don't have to rely on "jobs" and "stuff".

If anyone has any doubts about the true nature of the CIA, I've put together a list of (mostly U.S.) black ops since 1940: http://www.deephistory.us/black-ops.php

Of course Rex 84 was written by Oliver North..

Well said!