Isn't there a whole other group you're ignoring here?

It's my understanding that yes, there's been a recent influx of the Stormfront morons (yes, you guys are moronic. We're all just flesh & blood. Seriously.), but there's a group of non-racist revisionists here, who deny the popular narrative as Zionist propaganda. They don't "hate the joos", they disagree with control methods, and the sympathy card the Holocaust plays. Correct?

Best comment here.

You want to know what the real "control method" is, Flytape? It's making people think the jews are to blame in the first place, or that this shit is even a meaningful issue when in reality any effect of the story you suggest is propaganda has already long-since had it's effect and past into the realm of legend - and seeing as 'the holocaust' is just part of a foundation myth(like every other country and ethnicity has) to give the jews a reason to be how they are, when in reality the state of Israel was created by the western elite/nobility of Europe to fuck with the arab world and give the west a built-up base of operations in the land of the only people(arabs) left in the world with an economic, political, and legal system independent of them(them being the western elite) and independent of their control or direct influence. This is also why Israel is so well-funded and well-armed by the US and the western world, and why they get away with literally anything & everything they do up to and including attacking our military assets occasionally. Israel is good for business. It isn't because jews control the world, that's a complete joke, and it isn't out of compassion for a blighted people.

This whole thing about "the jews" doing anything is bullshit. They were given a piece of land from the Brits in the middle of their fiercest enemies(the muslims/arabs), surrounded by them, with a up-played foundational story to go along with it, just like all the other countries we are posting from. The jews have existed for thousands of years and were never strong enough to create their own state until 50 years ago, they didn't do this, and the UN didn't do it out of compassion. Talking about the holocaust as if it's relevant is just another distraction and smokescreen to disguise the real issues and discredit the people who look for 'the real issues'. The holocaust was used as a justification for the creation of the state of Israel, but it's bullshit anyways, so it's totally and absolutely irrelevant how many jews died there. It's just a piece of propaganda like any other founding mythos to any other country is.

Trying to downplay the holocaust isn't going to help anyone, it's just going to make normal people despise you and not change anything about "the truth"(to which the number of jews dead is not relevant, the truth is what I just typed above here - although it wasn't put that way to the jews themselves - because all nations need good founding mythologies. It's normal and happens all over the world with every nation, a fake or exaggerated inspiring founding story or mythos.).

Sitting around talking about the holocaust is like watching a building burn and pointing at a dogwalker not picking up their dog's shit off the ground down the street somewhere else and focusing on that instead of the giant burning building in front of you, and going "gee, well see, if that dogwalker didn't pick up the poo, maybe that started this fire".. it's just irrelevant and stupid to even suggest if you have a firm grounding in "fucking reality and what is real and what matters" - but people do it nonetheless because they are not very smart. Congratulations, now you know the truth, go look it up, think it through, and stop wasting your own time and attacking/discrediting this subreddit, yourself, and everyone associated with you. "The jews" have always and will always be used as a bogeyman for idiots to point their fingers at, while the real bogeyman lives in your castles or under guard financing their jet-set lifestyles and trillion $ family blind-trusts with your tax dollars, and sets their agenda only to accomplish it with the blood of your friends and family members here at home. They aren't over in Israel, Israel was created by them, and "they" aren't "jews". They have another philosophy, and it supersedes all normal religions as they are given to the normal people of every size/shape/color/nationality.

You'd have to suspend your whole worldview(or have a false worldview to begin with) to believe that "the number of jews who died in the holocaust" is relevant to ANYTHING other than 'making yourself look bad' and 'excusing the inexcusable' while acting like you're 'seeking the truth' - when really there's a much larger truth superseding the one you're focusing on - one which you are being stopped from seeing by focusing on smoke-clouds and apparitions given to you by the people responsible for the world you are living in. It just does not matter at all and accomplishes nothing but that. You won't win anything by reducing the number from 6,000,000 to 2,112,451, it would change nothing, and it's irrelevant to begin with - to EVERYTHING else that you would probably claim to care about, so what is your malfunction? "other group"?

Beyond all of that, the fact that these jew posts/holocaust "revision"(LOL.) posts are largely made by reddit accounts less than 3 months old, typically, means that this is not organic, normal content and it should be shut the fuck down and the army of neonazi hitler apologist alt accounts should be banned on sight. Direct them to a new subreddit, not /r/conspiracy. This subreddit is under attack, some of you are playing the role of useful idiots thinking you're "seeking the truth", some of you are doing something altogether different than that with insurgencies of alt accounts. The world and public thinking used to change by "word"(ideas) being exchanged in bars/public places/cafes/town halls - now the internet has replaced all of that - so the people with the most to gain by polluting and diluting/controlling content in(or perception of) places like /r/conspiracy are the people like COINTELPRO(or rather the people who they work for). They'd be tasked with things like "trying to catch dangerous neonazis or homegrown terrorists on the internet", and they'd throw shit like this out on social media websites as "bait"(regardless of whether they would ever 'catch anyone', that isn't the point), but in reality the reason for their projects are to dilute social movements and connect them to stuff that shuts them down and discredits everything that comes out of them.

This holocaust shit is like seeing the world on fire and going "gee look at this pile of dog shit over there, seems someone has forgotten to pick up after their mutts -- wait, is it dog shit or is it just dirt, I'm not sure, let's find the truth of the matter". It's just dumb. The world is burning. It's irrelevant whether there is or is not a pile of dog shit 'somewhere over there 60 years ago'.

Upvoted for being a decent rant...

Well said man, and I agree with your ultimate thesis. Where I disagree is that I don't think studying the facts and lies of the Holocaust is a useless endeavor. Doing so exposes part of the massive global control structure and the propaganda matrix upon which it's ultimately founded. It being part of the WWII mythos, one of the most important historical events and time periods of the last couple centuries, only makes it more relevant.

Most people have no clue about any of this and just believe the propaganda they were taught in the public school system growing up. Being exposed to alternative viewpoints of WWII could make a huge difference in the heart and mind of someone like this and their understanding of the world around them.

Understanding historical events and how they've been manipulated and distorted and used against us is a huge part of understanding what's happening today. Just my opinion.

Really doesn't mean much, compared to the other comments. Like winning the special olympics. This thread is rife w personal attacks and general assholery.

I don't know what people he's talking about.

Look know further than to one of the moderators of this very sub:

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/22l7ry/a_simple_reminder_about_the_type_of_people_who/cgo39gz

Yeah, I give no fucks for SRD. Axy's alright by me, based on my interactions.

Equality is a Marxist religion ancient Rome was beyond the third world

[deleted]

why do you keep arguing like this? Its not the way to get people to agree with you. You're coming off unreasonably hostile and you keep asking this stupid loaded question as if questioning the holocaust means totally embracing Nazism.

i never said questioning the holocaust makes you nazi. i only ask the loaded question after they refuse to answer the real question. You'll notice i never used that language with /u/eagleshigh. never dved him. we both had a cordial conversation. but these others your defending open with, "your a shill! How old are you? whydo you keep loading questions?" and i mean they do it posts and posts deep. Now that i've answered your question, answer mine, without the holocaust, if it never happened, would you support the nazi party?

What is this "real question" literally the only thing you asked the guy is if he likes nazis.

So, back to the question, Nazi-sans Holocaust, in or out?

I dont see anything cordial about this conversation and you do come off extremely immature throughout the thread. To answer your question though (not that you actually care) is no, even without the holocaust I dont think I would support Nazi politics.

without the holocaust, if it never happened, would you support the nazi party?

Can you even describe the policies and ideologies of the "Nazi party"? I'm curious whether you have any understanding beyond "they were racist fascists who wanted war with everyone!" -- i.e. precisely what was in controlled media in the 30's and 40's, and in entertainment media to this day. What are your thoughts on Feder? Monetary policy? Or the "positive" NSDAP reforms?

Nice sidestep. Never answer. blurb a lot about nothing. rinse, repeat.

BOB AND WEAVE ROCKO

Nice sidestep. Never answer.

I was interjecting in that conversation -- no questions had been asked of me.

i never said anything along any of those lines. I'm sorry you presume of me.

infact, that was what i was trying to get a picture of from you guys. Noticed no one answered, but the one who said "no"?

When i think of what a nazi stands for, minus the concentration camps, let's say Hitler never did it, for the sake of this conversation, they still put the Jews in the ghettos. They broke thier shops, burned thier buildings. They put stars on em so they knew who it was okay to bully. That's what I see when I think of what a nazi stands for. I think there were those bright blue eyed boys on the french front that really thought they were makin a differnce, for thier ppl back home and for france. I don't think they knew about the death camps, hundreds of a miles away, blinded by the city of lights. I don't condone nazis, because it is a system of hate, that believes in a master race. And i'll bring all that to my thread as well, proof Hitler believed the Aryans were the master race. And that's not a policy I think many ppl would agree on, and i'm white. It's just such a barbaric, anchient, hateful, idea, that even when you take the murder outta it, it still looks awful. idk man, am i sheep because of that perspective, or could you enlighten me without the jabs. I'll try to the same, ofcourse.

They broke thier shops, burned thier buildings

The "Nazi" leadership, when they realized this was happening on Krystallnacht (rioting broke out after a Jewish assassin had murdered someone at an embassy), gave orders to PROTECT Jewish property, and imposed harsh penalties on rioters. Hitler was reportedly furious. (This article explains 'Crystal Night'). The international media used the event for propaganda purposes.

They put stars on em so they knew who it was okay to bully.

...in 1941, and not to facilitate bullying but as a precursor to detainment. Jewish leaders had declared a "holy war on Germany" [even offering troops to the UK], and had intensifying the economic and media war declared in 1933. They were put in camps for the same reasons the Americans put Japanese in camps.

that believes in a master race

No, they didn't. This was an intentional mistranslation of "Herrenvolk" for propaganda purposes (and this.)

Hitler believed the Aryans were the master race

No, he didn't. NS racial ideology shifted and evolved over the years. By 1935 the word "Aryan" wasn't used any more, and by 1941 the Interior Ministry had declared racial anthropology unscientific. In most ways, Germany was a more tolerant society, racially, than the US at the time -- as Jessie Owens attested to after visiting for the '36 Olympics.

Consider that the US, in the 30's, deported 2m Mexicans, and stole their property (and of those, 1.2m were citizens.) It was not a particularly tolerant or enlightened time anywhere.

The problem here is that you don't know what you're talking about, and you're not calm and detached enough to even begin to tackle this topic in an objective way.

Had to throw the jab at the end sighs -.- alright, I'll see ya on the thread i do to prove the holocaust then, we'll all work it out there...

Well, I'm sorry to be mean, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Not even a high-school level of misunderstanding. Care to comment about Feder, or Germany's financial and trade policies? How about conditions for workers in Germany? Etc.

if what they're teaching now is that revisionist bullshit, then i'm glad i avoided that programming =) Just because Hitler did some things right to straighten the nation's path, he did it in such a way, that without war, it would;ve collyapsed in on itself, as the allies had left it to do after ww1. alot of ppl believe, including myself, believe that was intentionally set up by tptb, to specfically set up a ww2 to kill alot of jews. and pretty much anyone else the roman catholic church would let em. and you're still jabbing. you can't just talk to someone about this can you? you gotta put down the other person at every single step. do you think that helps me accept the information you present, or do you think it might offend me to it? Would that opinion differ if was sub-human? Am I sub-human to you? Do you feel i lack the qualitiies one might use to define a true human from a sub-human?

he did it in such a way, that without war, it would;ve collyapsed in on itself,

No, the "Nazi economic recovery through rearmament" thing is a myth. And they weren't economically or industrially preparing to try and take over Europe/The World. See Burton Klein, 'Germany's Economic Preparations for War' (1959). He was a distinguished economist [who was with US Strategic Bombing Survey after the war, then RAND, finished up as Professor Emeritus CalTec], I suggest you read his book.

alot of ppl believe, including myself, believe that was intentionally set up by tptb, to specfically set up a ww2 to kill alot of jews

Yes, a lot of people, like you, who have been exposed to endless propaganda and embrace more fallacies about history than you do verifiable facts.

keep swinging, don't answer, nice dodge. but yeah, you can't do it. You have to insult. It's in your nature. That nazi poison runnin through your viens. A burnin hate for anyone that would dare besmerch the master race and noble leader. Alot of ppl like you, too many, have drank the koolaid. taking one man's account that wasn't even there over thousands that were. And why, so you can let yourself believe you're right. and anyone that disagrees, well they're just not as educated as you are. if they'd only learn to read mein kamf and the protocols of zion more closely e.e

http://www.dannyhellman.com/imgs/captain_america_no2.jpg

that's the best post you made this entire thread =)

Ya know. He's provided more sources than you have and its entirely likely that numbers were inflated and information was distorted about the holocaust, just like everything else in the world

this thread wasn't about the holocaust, you revisionist hijacked it much like youdid this sub.

Im not even a holocaust revisionist bro. I'm just saying you offer no meat with your potatoes.

Jews started it by starting a civil war to set up their Bavarian Soviet Republic.

Defending themselves from this makes the National Socialists good people

I sincerely hope you are an ESL poster because your ability to parse posts is dismal. He wasn't calling you a Stormfront poster.

I feel like I'm talking to Jean-Ralphio...

who?

morons

A bit ironic, coming from you.

Ooohhhhh, sick burn, bro.

To be fair, I seem to recall you being a complete ass clown. But after looking at your submission history, I can't recall why. I may have been thinking of a different user with a similar name.

That being said "Stormfront morons" does make YOU sound like the moron.

And after going through your submission history, I have yet to find anything of any value. You post a lot of pointless bullshit. Probably for page sliding purposes.

Regardless, I think it's hilarious that you are willing to forgive all the atrocities of the zionist jews and their attempts to destroy all cultures, and call anyone who points it out a "moron".

Ha ha, that reply doesn't even need a retort!

It's no secret, Stormfront have made open efforts to target Reddit in general, and thie subreddit in particular.

JIDF own most subs. All National Socialists do is talk

...hardly. Many powers fight for control of the popular and even some smaller subs. Nazi talk, then they make speeches, then they either invade a country (like most extremists, you are no different) or today, run drugs and kill each other.

Britain and France declared war on Germany for bringing home Germans forced to live under polish rule.

The rest is bs

Rofl, not only is that total nonsense, but the Nazi's were clearly expansionist AND racist (they were far from alone on this but that is beside the point) from all of their writings, let alone their actions.

In addition you guys are pretty good at being thugs, denying this is a complete rejection of reality, which I guess for a Nazi isn't surprising.

Rofl, not only is that total nonsense, but the Nazi's were clearly expansionist AND racist (they were far from alone on this but that is beside the point) from all of their writings, let alone their actions.

Can you elaborate on how they were expansionists? It's my understanding that Germany had a lot of their land stolen from them as part of the Versailles treaty, and that Poland was massacring Germans. And Austria actually voted by an overwhelming majority to merge with Germany.

I'm seriously not trolling you so please don't take offense - if you've got some information that could enhance my current understanding I would be really interested in reading/watching it. At the moment I kind of see Hitler as being treated like Putin because he also refused to play ball with the West's corruption.

Sure I'd love to discuss it! Well land "stolen from them" is pretty silly. They took some land from France in the Franco-Prussian war. You can trace it back as far as you want, land is always "stolen" from someone else. Sure the treaty of Versailles was an awful treaty and helped lead to WWII, but to claim that it makes it any more justified or less expansionist doesn't hold up.

As for whether or no Austria wanted to join, well its debatable, but what isn't debatable is whether or not Poland & Czechoslovakia wanted to join Germany. They didn't and again whether or not Germans were suffering there doesn't OK an invasion or annexation (could have easily been dealt with in other ways, but was used as an excuse). However even if it did, the story of "suffering Germans" was vastly overblown by most accounts (https://books.google.com/books?id=mViRAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA72&lpg=PA72&dq=German+occupation+of+Czechoslovakia+pretext&source=bl&ots=S1GhANhUUI&sig=6XrdyKuVmuT6q8hKN1Yp1eIYQuc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=SgK8VLnCJuzGsQT-zYKIDw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=German%20occupation%20of%20Czechoslovakia%20pretext&f=false).

Another action which speaks to their aggressive expansionist nature leading to war (which again I am NOT claiming was exclusively German, just that under a fascist totalitarian regime it exacerbates such tendencies) was their invasion of Russia. Again quite a bit of controversy here, but it was QUITE clear that Russia was in no position (yet) to threaten Germany.

The most damning evidence like I said though is their writing as it provides the intentionality behind their actions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum Again this isn't exclusive to Germany, but to attempt to portray them as non-responsible or non-expansionist (warmongering) or even manipulated is pure folly. Fascism has always been and will always be a horrid form of government, just like Monarchy, Oligarchy, or our current Plutarchy.

Racist is a word invented by Communist Jew Leon Trotsky, it means nothing.

Equality is a marxist religion.

"Not only is that total nonsense"

Cities don't magically change ethnicity/nationality just because wars end badly you are mental it seems

Again you just ignore the most important part of my response, the expansionist part.

Your replies are as empty and hollow as your head. You have not responded, or likely even identified the critical parts of my posts. Try again.

What a joke Britain and France owned and subjugated people all over the world and the USSR invaded and threatened German allies Finland and Romania

Expansionist compared to whom buddy boy?

Germany was a tiny central European state against global empires

No more jewificated logic plz I'm asking nice

Nope, wrong once again, and ignoring the main point again. I already preempted your BS response. Since you seem a little slow I'll dumb it down for you. Expansionism leads to war, which is bad. Fascist were very expansionist. All forms of totalitarian government ultimately are. This isn't a who's worse than who-athon (there are no winners here, the crimes of all governments are unspeakable), its just obvious that fascism in all its forms is bad.

No more un-logic.

Jesus Christ dude do you talk to everyone like this? You simply cannot have a normal conversation here! That's depressing.

This isn't even a response it's just talking to the sake of talking and disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. All you're saying is the western world should lay down and be enslaved by Judeo-Bolshevism.

Are you Jewish?

Nice strawman & mindless unfounded dismissal (aka I am in way over my head so I have to try and bring it down to my level). You have zero credibility, and I will not waste my time on those who obviously cannot think. I have presented a logical argument. Unless you would like to debate the points I have made about expansionism, war, and totalitarian regimes, we are done here.

EDIT: Looks like this brainless neo-nazi trash hooked up with his neo-nazi anti-intellectual airforce buddy bellow! Don't they make a lovely couple?

You need a new word. You have over used strawman.

"Nice strawman & mindless unfounded dismissal"

Talking about your last response?

Your point was clear, you think nothing should have been done about Soviet expansion into Europe because it's "Fascism being expansionist itself, bad and fascists are very expansionist" blah blah totalitarian government and you refusing to answer if you're a Jew.

Somehow I feel the winner.

Welcome to every argument with this guy. It goes no where.

I recognize Jew distraction anywhere. See how he accuses me of not "addressing his points", when he had literally zero points. Accuses me of using strawmen etc. when he just calls anything he doesn't like "nonsense"

It's "nonsense" apparently that Germans and German cities forced to live under Poland/Czechoslovakia didn't magically change ethnicities and instead wanted to come back to Germany.

He wants to take a productive discussion that might lead others to change their view on ww2 and degenerated into an e-slugfest of jewish bs.

I can keep up the facts all day. All he ends up doing is making people disgusted and suspicious by his flailing about wildly.

I mean come on. "Any kind of 'expansion' is bad! So the clear solution is lay down and be enslaved and brutalized by the red army lol XDDDD le oy vey the noble tolerance is a virtue!"

He did the exact same thing to me the past two days. Same shit, blatant attacks followed with rable bullshit. If he would just state his opinion and leave his "God complex" personality out of the argument he might, mightttt have a good point here and there. There's no arguing with him though. We should accept /u/Potss as our God now to make this easier for everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1knk6M4qBrg

This video going around has gotten these JIDF all messed up. It applies today, they don't care if you're a democracy, or a tyranny like Saudi Arabia, as long as you do what you're told and never challenge their finance and Israel the place where they hide from international law you get a pass

Yup, I got 3 accounts shadowbanned for calling out a JIDF on adviceanimals

Wasn't there a post on here recently that linked most of these supposed Nero Nazi white power type groups to Israeli organizations?

I have noticed a high number of holocaust related posts and wondered what is the reason behind them.

Here, on conspiracy, we always are talking about groups subverting society, this sub, all kinds of shit. Meanwhile we let one of the most loud and hateful continously post this holohoax crap

I have not looked into the details but what makes you think it is all crap? It would be amazing to see a post where this is all tackled and put to bed or put out into the open if true.

I have personally seen enough evidence to be throughly convinced of concentration camps. trying to prove exact numbers, they know it can't be done, cause most all the survivors or on hand witnesses are like 90 years old. Then they point out, "well this one said something about masterbation death machines". you know what, they had some sick ass shit up in the holocaust. they disected ppls brains while still in skull. most all of the biology of the brain we know, we know from nazi experimentation. you wanna put it all to bed? Dude, if you seriously believe that the holocaust was just an internment camp for jews, gypsies and gays, then I got some bad news for ya. And there's so tall a mountain of evidence to prove it did happen. Meanwhile, the revisionist get one or two snippits that suppovely unravel the whole damn thing, but they don't not even close. And fuck it, i'll play devils advocate even. Let's say they did. Let's say the holocaust is a hoax, and that the whole "Master Race" thing is just a slogan and not a dictate to exterminate or rule over the rest (ya know, like you nazi fucks accuse the Jews of doin?) ? That mean you're in pal? Nazis are fine so long as they arn't genocidal aholes? Is that it?

Dude, if you seriously believe that the holocaust was just an internment camp for jews, gypsies and gays,

I have no beliefs on this subject. Although I'm pretty sure everyone who was imprisoned ended up in the concentration camps. (The man who escaped from Auswitch, was my source)

I will be totally honest and put my cards on the table.

The influx of posts lately certainly has piqued my interest. It has made me question certain things. I'm over the moon I live in country where I can ask questions about the holocaust without ending up in prison which leads me on the point of

Why is it an offence to question the holocaust in certain countries?

What is the history that caused that legislation?

When discussing ww2 the Jewish horrors are always front and centre, a lot of other groups suffered as well. They just get a foot note, why?

If it wasn't 6million and in fact 3 million then that needs to be discussed as it is a huge discrepancy.

My last point/thought has been stirred up recently with the Charlie Hebdo event. The media in my eyes are saying we can slag off Islam and brown people all we want but can't say a critical word against Israel for fear of being anti-Semitic. So if they are so protective over their issues with Palestine and play a hard PR campaign with that, then it is perfectly reasonable they have done the same in the past.

In saying all of this I do not want /r/conspiracy to be filled with this one topic

EDIT:

Just to add when I first heard of Holocaust deniers or people with questions about it, my immediate reaction was of horror and revulsion and assumed they must be mad. Things change though

Why is it an offence to question the holocaust in certain countries? What is the history that caused that legislation?

This is the only argument i agree with however it doesn't necessarily change any of the facts underlying the system.

When discussing ww2 the Jewish horrors are always front and centre, a lot of other groups suffered as well. They just get a foot note, why?

Well that's an important fact of history. Yes other groups suffered- absolutely but the fact of the matter is none were singled out in numbers as the jewish population. Similarly, while there's considerably less material floating around for population numbers of "gays executed" there's more concrete evidence for jewish populations.

If it wasn't 6million and in fact 3 million then that needs to be discussed as it is a huge discrepancy.

You're absolutely correct. However, everytime the number gets reinvestigated it keeps coming up around 6 million.

But, i'm not entirely that in scope 6 million is all that different from 3 million. It's not a contest. The problem with denialism is that it asserts that 3 million is less bad than 6 million and as such that's a reason to strike the event from cultural history.

Actually, you're slightly wrong. Other groups were HEAVILY targeted. For instance, the mentally ill and handicapped (which included disorders like epilepsy at this time) were basically extinguished immediately. Nazis would go to hospitals for the mentally ill, put them all in a big moving type van (with a separated cab?) with an exhaust hose leading into the back of the van, and drive around until they were all dead. There's even a film taken of it.

Nazis would go to hospitals for the mentally ill, put them all in a big moving type van (with a separated cab?) with an exhaust hose leading into the back of the van, and drive around until they were all dead. There's even a film taken of it.

Maybe you can link to the film then, and maybe cite a source?

I'm not at my university so I don't have the film, but here's the wiki article on them http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_van.
Even the most basic Google search will turn up ton more sites.

Revisionists have dealt extensively with the topic of "gas vans" -- there's essentially no evidence for them -- certainly no film:

In a recent video, Jewish-American revisionist David Cole revealed that the Simon Wiesenthal Center's "Museum of Tolerance" in Los Angeles used to show an allegedly authentic documentary film depicting the gassing of several children in a "Nazi gas van." David Cole found out that the scene shown by the museum had been taken from the 1961 Polish fiction movie "Ambulans" directed by Polish-Jewish filmmaker Janusz Morgenstern

• book: (pdf) 'The Gas Vans: A Critical Investigation'

• article: 'The Gas Vans: A Critical Assessment of the Evidence'

There is no document to indicate that 'gas vans' had ever come up for discussion in the Third Reich. The term dates from post-war times. The documents advanced as evidence for the 'gas vans' mentioned "Sonderwagen", "Sonderfahrzeuge", "Spezialwagen" [uniformly, 'Special Vehicles'; -trans.] or "S-Wagen".

... the German Wehrmacht had one hundred different kinds of "Sonder-Kraftfahrzeuge" [Special Motor Vehicles], which were known as "Sd. Kfz 1" to "Sd. Kfz 250" and even higher.[3] Every vehicle that required specialized equipment for any purpose was a 'Special Motor Vehicle'.

... Their production and outfitting was no more secret than that of other Wehrmacht vehicles. To automatically connect the term 'Special Motor Vehicle' with the murder of Jews reveals gross ignorance of the facts.

But hey, present your evidence. You're talking about special gas vans for the supposed "unofficial" continuation of the euthanasia / mercy-killing pilot program, which Hitler shut down, right?

Oh, so you mean similarly to how America imprisons our mentally ill? But seriously... This conspiracy.. Dafuq... I must have missed a lot of scholarly articles and publications discussing this controversy

Lol yeah. Mental institutions are totally the same thing as killing them via carbon monoxide poisoning.

True haha jail isn't comparable you're right. I'm an idiot

I know you said this sarcastically, but I don't think you're an idiot:). I think people have different views on different things.

This is the only argument i agree with however it doesn't necessarily change any of the facts underlying the system.

Your right this changes no facts but it does give me cause for concern. If you can't question something you have to have a damn good reason why...

It's not a contest.

I get that

The problem with denialism is that it asserts that 3 million is less bad than 6 million and as such that's a reason to strike the event from cultural history.

I would agree it is not a reason to strike it from cultural history but it is such a massive difference, 3 million of anything is a lot to miscount.

Ultimately I can see the Jewish PR machine in overdrive of late which is making me ask even more questions about history.

You ignored his other points entirely to focus on the ones you could use to re-assert your own points.

Because i argeed with them.

But there is evidence to say otherwise that it didn't happen, or that it was greatly exaggerated.

such as?

dved me and deflected. you didn't answer. i give you no holocaust ever happened (for the sake of this conversation), does that mean the whole master race thing is good to go? you in bro?

Personally, I think the evidence against the holocaust being as blown up as they make it has significance... Just not the significance some are trying to portray it as. The evidence is coming to light and people are trying to subvert the truth with melodrama and propaganda.

The fact of the matter is people agreed with Hitler. His ideas were based upon the ideas of evolution and natural selection, equating Jews, Christians, retards, and others with vermin who were polluting the gene pool. He was pushing an agenda that's all too familiar today. To hide the fact that they're still pushing the same message (and considering Hitler rose to fame from the same powers in control now), they've blown out the holocaust narrative.

That message is far from dead, and a lot of people still agree with the idea of eugenics. It's an unfortunate consequence of believing that we are evolved rather than created beings.

You are an idiot.

No. I don't believe in master race. I do believe in inferiority of some people's though. There is science to back it up.

It doesn't matter you don't believe in a master race, what matters is that the nazis did, same throughout history the Christians thought they were doing gods will in the crusades, the Muslims believed that the would go to paradise for dying in jihad.

Edit: "people's"? As in ethnic groups?

Yea your right about that. Yes some ethnic groups. Bushmen, aborigines. Africans. Iq is a telling thing.

Wee woo, wee woo racist alert.

There has been lots of 'science' to back up the inferiority of different races (measuring black people's skulls vs monkeys for example). Do you have any evidence (which is dated at least 2000 AD)

Pygmies?

I would count them as human, yes they diverged 60,000 years ago but that is not much longer than native Americans, their main difference seems to be height (which must have been important to their early survival)

It is an open academic question whether IQ actually represents a person's intelligence (what psychometricians call the g factor). Not only are there questions about the appropriateness of this sort of test for measuring intelligence, but there are arguments that the IQ test is Western-biased, that equally-intelligent humans will get different scores based on their cultural context.

In addition, poverty, bad education, and early-youth malnutrition are all factors that have been shown to depress a person's IQ score. Large proportions of people within the ethnicities you cite live in oppressive and impoverished conditions. If two people were born into two families with identical genetic information, the person born in an impoverished environment could be expected to have a lower IQ score.

Using IQ to make arguments about the influence of ethnicity on intelligence is poor science because of the tenuous relationship between IQ and the g factor (I believe some psychometricians reject the theory behind g in the first place), and because of the lack of control for environmental factors when simply comparing average IQ scores between ethnicities.

Eh, IQ has a ton of problems actually, especially when it comes to accounting and adjusting for regional/ethnic/age/sex differences. Someone in Africa who's never taken an IQ test before (or even a written test of any kind) is obviously less equipped to do well than an American who's grown up taking literally hundreds of similarly structured tests.

This is a good video. This test uses patterns, not written words. Would love to hear your feedback.

http://youtu.be/RxAhwYoZQKU

And the final issue in all of this is: who really cares?

What good comes of patting yourself on the back and arguing that you are genetically superior to other human beings who have the same hopes, dreams, emotions that you do, simply because you have a different skin color? How is it bringing any good into the world to not only defend but literally align yourself with bigotry? There is only one human race, and we're all being manipulated by the very few - which is what we should be focusing on. And when we argue amongst ourselves about who's smarter we're playing directly into their hands.

One of the problems with this video and many others like it is that it does nothing to explain or determine what "IQ" even is or is supposed to be measuring. He just throws the term around haphazardly as if it's a given that it's a relevant statistic.

The other thing is that this doesn't address my earlier point which is that, verbal or not, most people in Africa have never seen or taken a test even remotely like this one while almost every American child has. It's very close to every IQ test I've ever taken and even reminds me of certain questions on the SAT and other standardized tests.

America places a premium on "test taking". All of our courses are specifically designed to make us do well on standardized tests (and this gets worse every year). I think there are literally hundreds or thousands of factors that aren't being considered in studies like this.

Another thing: have you ever met someone with a 60-70 IQ before? They are in almost all cases what would be called "slow", and noticeably so - as in you would very quickly realize that this person in front of you has a mental disability. You would go to Africa and be met with a country of blubbering buffoons which just isn't the reality.

Thanks for your insight. For instance the abos have an iq of about I believe 60. I truly believe that iq directly correlates with culture, not the other way around. Thanks for being civil with me and not just calling me a racist. Refreshing to have a dialogue like this that doesn't devolve into ad homs.

I realized long ago that there's no use in getting angry or worked up over comments made anonymously on an internet forum so you won't be getting attacked by me. At worst I'll just walk away from the conversation.

But anyway, here's my thought on IQ as it relates to what you said above.

I agree with you that IQ correlates with culture, where I don't agree is that IQ is the cause of that culture. In my opinion, it's probably the other way around: that countries that are more "cultured" perform better on standardized tests because they're the ones making them and they're also trained to perform well on them from a young age.

IQ in that sense is a measurement of how well a person is able to think in a certain way or within certain guidelines, I really just don't believe that a test could be designed that would be fair and unbiased and equally difficult for every person on Earth - I just don't think it's possible.

And I think there is a lot - a lot - more to intelligence that can never be captured by an IQ score.

For example:

The short type of Pygmy. They run slow, and can't reach the top shelves in stores.

so there's not a master race, just one...or more, that arn't up the the same standard as others. and how would this templet look. Who's human, and who's, oh, idk, let's call them, sub-human? That term works right, cause they're inferior to those you would call, human?

Yes that is what I'm saying. Would you say that we are all exactly the same when we evolved in different parts of the world, separately for tens of thousands of years? Accomplishing different things? Imo it's the only logical conclusion to come too. We are all different. We are all good at different things. Yes we are more intelligent then Africans and aborigines and the like but they can do some things better then us.

We didn't evolve separately, humans migrated tens of thousands of years ago, becoming split up. But 40,000 years is no where near long enough for evolution to occur, yes you get change, but not evolution. Also where are your "scientific fact[s]"?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18656315

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAhwYoZQKU&feature=youtu.be

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141106143719.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2599854/Europeans-closer-Neanderthals-thought-Ancient-DNA-humans-species-interbreeding-outside-Africa.html

Still humans, also if Africans are 'untermenschen' then how are aborigines? They interbred with Neanderthals same as Europeans

racist supremacist argument comes crashing down like race theory

It's not about supremacy. It's about facts. Aborigines have Denisova dna as well as Africans.

But like 0.25% if that, aborigines and native Americans migrated north with would be Europeans. But you are a bigot who can't accept that non white people are equal.

More like 3 to 4 percent. That's the thing, we are not equal. Just as mongloids and caucasoids have 3 to 4 percent neanderthal dna.

I am not a bigot. I am a racist. I don't hate blindly. It's not for nor reason. We all aren't the same. How can you say that? Look at Africa 300 years ago and look at it today. Pretty much the same as it was 300 years ago.

What is your definition of the same?

Same number of chromosomes, we can all interbreed. At the end of the day we are human, and just because some people's are less advanced technologically doesn't mean they are inferior.

Africa is hugely different

"Evolution, also known as descent with modification, is the change in heritable phenotype traits of biological populations over successive generations." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

any change is evolution

Oh shit, MOM GET THE CAMCORDER! He brought out Wikipedia!!!

But for an entire species to evolve? People in Zimbabwe are as human as the remnants of native population in north America and as an aryan man

Define it in your own words, not copy and pasted from Wikipedia

whats wrong with copypasting from wikipedia? im not writing a college research paper.

also, "human" is a social construct, so debating whether they are human or not comes down to your arbitrary definition of "human".

Homo sapien then, we are all the same species

when i said human, i meant homo sapien, not some philosophical definition of humanity. all taxonomy is based on arbitrary definitions, it may help us sort through different forms of life, but it is by no means absolute.

With that being said, you cannot argue that blacks and whites or other races are equal. You can argue that they should be treated equally under the law, that they have the same rights, that they have the same worth, etc... ,but you cannot argue that they are equal.

Why can't you argue that?

For the same reason that you cant argue that lizards and pigeons are equal, its just not true.

Lizards and pigeons are completely different species, Africans are not

ok, for the same reason you cant argue that rottweilers and chihuahuas are the same.

Dogs all have common ancestors but are selectively bred to the extreme. They look different but can still breed, humans are not selectively bred for the vast majority of history

humans were seperated geographically which lead to differences forming between groups that didnt intermingle, as you said in the very original post i replied to.

Yes, differences but still human, Europeans became resistant to small pox, those in the Americas had no resistance so many died from it. Differences are relatively small, different type of hair, hair colour, skin colour all to do with the environment that they lived in

we are going around in circles. I thought we already established that being human or any other specie is a social construct. Also, you just admitted that we arent equal.

I might not be as good a musician as elvis or whoever, but does that mean I am less of a person?

we are talking about facts and science, not opinions. Whether you are less worth than Elvis Presely because you are not a good musician is an opinion.

Am I less of a human because I am black? Or because I am a native American?

Well you are human in the sense that you can mate with other defined as human and produce fertile offspirng.

Whether you are worth as much as other races is an opinion, not fact.

Ah so we have lost the fact?

Every culture has done something impressive, doesn't matter where in the world, Aztecs and their lake city, incans with their agriculture and very high mountain forts, it goes on

once again, thinking that one race is superior or inferior to another race is an opinion. nothing you say is going to change that. Sure it may be a "mean" opinion to hold, and the opinion that all races are equally valuable is a "nice" opinion to hold, but at the end of the day they are opinions.

Racial theory and all the 'science' with it has proven otherwise.

you obviously dont know the difference between opinions and facts.

I do, I live in Britain, fact. I think Britain is great, opinion.

well "white people are better than black people" or "black people are better than white people" are also opinions.

You have to have reasons, I think Britain is great because have the NHS, had a huge empire which actually united many places (such as India)

well im personally not a supremacist, but if you ask one, im sure theyll give you reasons.

Ones founded in prejudice and racism

I do believe in inferiority of some people's though. There is science to back it up.

We are all created equal by our Creator, and our forefathers understood this. There is no science that supports eugenics or superiority of one person over another. These kind of statements are exactly why the new world order is taking over... People are falling for that kind of garbage.

If you believe that some humans are trash, then don't be surprised when they try to throw you out with the rest of us. How does that sound?

Imo it is scientific fact. Can you really say that we are the same as say, aborigines or bushmen? Can you say that they are really on our level? As I said, we do things differently. They wouldn't be able to survive in our society and most of us would have trouble in theirs. Do you deny this difference?

Downvote without refuting my claim. Is there something wrong with what I said? These are facts.

As I said, we do things differently. They wouldn't be able to survive in our society and most of us would have trouble in theirs. Do you deny this difference?

This is not, in any way evidence of any kind of genetic predisposition. These are learned behaviours.

I think they choose to be on the level that they are at, which is living in deep communion with the planet. I'm glad there are at least some tattered remnants of the species that do so. We need them believe it or not. The ones who have the most trouble are the ones that are forced to live in the 'modern world'. These people aren't hurting anybody by there existance, their numbers are too small, yet there is such a strong nasty dislike and character-assasination of them from the West. These people are an important part of the species, it would be better for us all if they could just be left alone to their pastoral lives.

I don't fault them for that. It's respectable. But imo technological advancements say something about intelligence. As I said, we are good at different things.

Yes, I really can say we are the same. God created humans distinct from animals. They are just as much man as anyone else. Just because our culture is different doesn't make us any better, and believing things such as you believe it actually makes us worse.

They live freely upon the Earth while you live as a slave to an empire, and you think that makes you superior? Of course they could survive in our society. The fact of the matter is they don't want to, and if I had the choice I wouldn't either.

Evolution is a blind faith. Natural selection and mutation are tools that, over time, degrade a population of genetic information. If we cull the population, we lose diversity and the mutation rate goes up. That means more retards, incest, down syndrome, disorders, cancer, disease, etc...

Please think more critically about what you're really saying. Murder is an abomination unto God.

Are you really an /r/conspiracy subscriber who actually believes in one of the oldest mechanisms of control?

Don't even bother, the power of Christ compels this one

What's the point of blatantly attacking me like this? Let my word speak for itself and talk directly to me if you're going to talk about me.

I was helping him. Anyway I tried logic with you and got no where, the bible is full of inconsistencies, how do you know that genesis isnt bullshit

For one, there is ample evidence supporting the flood. Two, the Bible is historically accurate and vindicated by archaeology. Three, 27% of the Bible is prophecy with 100% accuracy.

That's three out of many more reasons to believe. The Bible has testable claims and withstands the harshest scrutiny you can give it. It really it was it claims to be, the word of God. It is unique among all religious texts.

How do you know that objects fall towards the Earth? It's exactly the same method of reasoning. Test it and test it again. Look for proof, and look at the opposition.

The bible is not historically accurate nor is it the word of God, it was written by men, hence the contradictions in it. If I'm wrong then you can be laughing when I burn in hell (which wouldn't happen even it the bible is right as Jesus supposedly died for our sins)

You have to believe upon Jesus and repent of your sin to be saved. Blaspheming His name is punishable by death and will not be favorable in your judgment.

It is indeed historically accurate. It also contains no contradictions. Do you have any you'd like to discuss?

Does god support war or peace? Did Jesus rise again? Are you meant to marry your dead brother's wife?

Should you stone gays?

Does god support war or peace?

God supports peace, obviously. Read the ten commandments.

We're called to be righteous and when sued for our coat, give them our coat and our spare.

Did Jesus rise again?

Yes.

Are you meant to marry your dead brother's wife?

You certainly shouldn't abandon them if they need your help.

Should you stone gays?

No. Call them to repentance and love them as much as God loves us all.

EXO 15:3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

ROM 15:33 Now the God of peace be with you all. Amen.

The bible says to stone gays

Can you name anywhere in the Bible that anyone is stoned for homosexuality?

Besides, we're not under the law anymore. It hasn't gone away, no, but we are under grace. The law sets an example to teach us unrighteousness. Nobody could fulfill the law completely except for Jesus, and He sacrificed Himself for us to cover our sins during our judgment at the end of time.

So you are avoiding the contradictions? Look at history (or parts of modern day africa) for the stonings.

The bible is not meant to be taken literally, nor is it perfect historical account

nor is it perfect historical account

Proof? So far, it's track record is spot on.

It is heavily biased for one, showing it to be written by man.

How is it spot on?

Prophecy is a fascinating subject of study for the Bible. 27% of the Bible is prophecy and it's all accurate.

Historically it's been vindicated in every challenge thrown at it.

The flood has ample evidence to confirm its case.

Here's a site full of lectures and information about Biblical accuracy. I don't remember if I linked you there before, but at your leisure you can look through and perhaps check out a video that sounds interesting to you.

The powers that be is a term that comes from the Bible. The Bible was the first book written against the modern day new world order... and it was written two thousand years ago.

The Bible is going to be the method they deceive people by. They know it's accurate. They know science is caught up and can validate its accuracy. They're ready to put things together. They're releasing to the world this year that we're the center of the universe, which the Bible said all along. A documentary by the leading cosmologists and physicists being released in theaters, confirming the Biblical account as accurate... How often does that happen?

The world will be united under a false Christ, just as the prophecy fortells... God's never wrong.

I literally don't even

God may never be wrong, but men are, men wrote the bible.

In a few hundred or a thousand years people will think that they have worked out the final truth, every religion in history believes that it is right. The 2nd coming was supposed to have happened in the crusades according to contemparies

Who told you that? Is this your own theory?

Can you justify such interpretation with scriptures? 'Cause my Bible says many false prophets are gone out into the world, even two-thousand years ago.

Scripture is God-breathed.

Fact, it was not god writing the bible, why then are there so many gospels?

Every religion believes that they are right. Also what "false prophets"?

Looks like you need to do some studying. How can you denounce something you know nothing of personally?

I was doing the same thing for a long time and I would love to go back in time and slap my self for being ignorant.

Well done for avoiding my questions. IMO Mary got pregnant, are up a rumour, (not very virgin Mary)

Leviticus 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination (King James bible for reference)

That's correct, but you're not going to influence anyone without first developing a relationship with them and respecting them as an equal human being. We're all sinners and we're all guilty of breaking God's law. We all deserve the same punishment, and Jesus died so that we might have a chance to be saved. Now we have the opportunity to repent and change ourselves within and with his help so long as we believe in Him...

Not to mention He gave us testable evidence of His existence to do so.

Nobody is too far gone to be saved.

Cause Jesus he knows me, and he knows I'm right.

And my other point, the contradiction? What about the historical evidence for Jesus' wife?

If god proved that he existed then there would be no religion as the foundation of any religion is faith in the uncertain

God gives substantial reason to support having faith in His claims.

Jesus' wife? From what, a gnostic manuscript? A hoax.

"A hoax" says the man who believes wholesale in a book written by men.

What are these reasons? And where are they from?

Here is a wonderful collection of lectures you can absorb at your leisure. The flood account is a fascinating topic, but there are many there to choose from.

If you want to know the case for the other side, you have to study the other side.

As do you but I'm sure 'god' can tell you what's what

I grew up on your side. I've studied both sides.

The Bible is a sword against religion. It is a tool we can use to disprove all other religions through evidence.

The Bible is the book that coined the phrase 'the powers that be.'

To believe in the Bible is to believe a conspiracy is being perpetrated to enslave mankind and create a new world order. To believe in the Bible is to believe that Christian churches are being undermined and stolen in order to deceive the masses about the Bible and hide the conspiracy.

The Bible teaches us that God wants us all to be free, and without Him we will be slaves. It teaches us that we are saved by faith in God and there is nothing we can do to earn our way into heaven. Salvation is by believing.

They have to undermine the Bible because it confirms everything we're doing here. It confirms these conspiracies are true. It points to the culprits who are doing this. It predicted the culprits before they existed! They're perpetrating this grand conspiracy from the Vatican itself!

By pretending to be Christians, they're going to use the fact that you can prove the Bible is the true word of God through science in order to deceive people into following them instead of God. It's the ultimate deception, Antichrist! The old Papal Roman empire never died... it's just hiding behind the church. They still have the power, and they're going to come out into the public eye again once they unite the new world order.

So, of course I believe the Bible. It's because I believe in religion being a conspiracy that I believe the Bible in the first place. Wrap your head around that one. :P

I don't advocate genocide. I believe we evolved on earth in different places making us different. I don't think a bushmen can survive in our society. It's not even about culture being different. Imo iq is the thing that drives innovation. Look at the Renaissance. Do you think what was accomplished there could have been done with low iq?

You're right, to a point. I like living in civilization though. I don't see how evolution is blind faith. There is alot of evidence to back it up.

I don't want to cull population. Our differences is what makes us great. I just believe we should preserve what we have. Saying that God created us takes more faith then evolution imo. I believe in God but there is so much evidence for evolution.

I believe we evolved on earth in different places making us different.

Why? Don't answer, yet...

I don't think a bushmen can survive in our society.

They're no different than you or I.

I don't see how evolution is blind faith. There is alot of evidence to back it up.

There isn't any evidence, and real biologists will tell you this. The 'evidence' provided for evolution does not support its claims at all, they just hang on for dear life because they have no other choice. It's a huge lie they're brainwashing the culture with in order to create an atheist state, because atheists can be manipulated easier. If you don't believe we were created equally, or that we are morally accountable to God, then you must fall under the rule of man and give up your freedom. It's a system to enslave you, and the lies of evolution are part of that system.

Saying that God created us takes more faith then evolution imo.

That's not true at all. The Biblical account is testable and supported by science. God gave it to us to prove Himself, and He purposefully filled it with claims that we can test and prove His existence. That's what it's for.

Evolution is not supported by science. I'm sorry to be the one to break it, but they've duped you. We can prove, with evidence and science, that the Bible is God's word. Here are a wonderful collection of lectures presenting the various evidences confirming the Biblical account.

God wants to be known and He has made himself know. Something not popular among creationists yet is Geocentrism. Geocentrism is a huge breakthrough that's coming out of cosmology right now. There's a documentary being released in theaters this year breaking the news to everyone. /r/geocentrism has more information on this, and this revelation is another wonderful confirmation of God's word.

There isn't any evidence

then why do we observe bacteria and viruses evolving?

Are they not still bacteria and viruses? Can you demonstrate where they have developed brand new genetic information?

is mutation not "brand new genetic information"?

A small mutation is certainly not the development of feathers from a featherless creature, nor can it explain that. Wings on a creature is like updating your encyclopedia collection from 1990-1999 to 1990-2015. You don't get those new encyclopedias by shuffling the old ones, nor do you get them by mutating the pages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transposable_element

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyploid

Both of those require information to already be present. Polyploidism does not provide new information... just duplicate pre-existing information. Further mutation of that has never been shown to produce anything new in an organism other than dysfunction. Transposable elements are like functions in a programming language or words in a sentence, which is a hallmark of intelligence. You can put a word in different sentences, or a function in different areas of a program repeatedly, and it's still new information because of the context.

Natural selection and mutation don't produce new information like that. They all require pre-existing information.

Natural selection and mutation don't produce new information like that. They all require pre-existing information.

there is pre-existing information, the organism is pre-existing information.

Where did the organism come from? There is no evidence of a gradual process creating them, nor evidence that it could, so how'd they get here?

evolution never claimed to explain abiogenesis, it only explains how life changes over time. I dont see how this proves ytour claim that "evolution is wrong"

Observation gives us variation within limits on already existing creatures and demonstrates that those creatures will always be those creatures.

I'll say it again. Natural selection and mutation do not account for the complexity of life that we see. It does not explain cats and dogs, only the variety within cats and dogs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYSm05sVCns

why do you say that? We have already established that new information can be added. If we have a starting organism such as bacteria, why do yous say that over billions of years it cant evolve into a dog?

why do yous say that over billions of years it cant evolve into a dog?

Natural selection and mutation do not add the new information necessary to make a dog. Mutations are going to be a net negative result 90% of the time and result in the death of the mutated bacteria. Natural selection only shuffles around the information that's already there. There's no way to provide for a bacteria to suddely become a dual-celled organism, let alone a gendered organism. It's never been observed because the changes to become something else require brand new genetics.

It's like saying we can take a children's book, rearrange the pages for a million years, and suddenly we get Shakespeare. It doesn't work that way.

did you even watch the video?

Yes. It doesn't explain new information. He admits this himself.

He presents zero genetic evidence for evolution and then authoritatively says anyone who disagrees just doesn't understand genetics.

are you talking about abiogenesis?

No...

Start here.

well then i dont understand what you are talking about. He clearly says that new information can be added. The only thing he says is that evolution doesnt explain abiogenesis.

Abiogenesis can't explain abiogenesis, lol. These sciences are a search for a naturalistic process by which life could be here without a designer and they do not have answers, yet. The fact that people assert they do doesn't mean that they actually do.

Universal common descent (and naturalism in general) is entirely based on faith. It's a religion being indoctrinated upon people from the time they're a child up. All they're doing is discouraging more learning and forcing you into accepting the word of authority from someone else. It's a conditioning process, that's all... and they spit you out thinking you're nothing in the middle of nowhere who is a slave to the world around you and the authorities in it.

They don't have the answers. It's not possible for life to happen by accident. It's a joke.

Abiogenesis can't explain abiogenesis,

Thats a meaningless statement. Abiogenesis isnt an explanation, its the process from which non-living matter becomes living. We dont know what the process is.

The fact that people assert they do doesn't mean that they actually do

I dont know what people assert , but evolution does not assert anything about abiogenesis.

we are not talking about naturalism or abiogenesis, we are talking about evolution, stick on topic.

We dont know what the process is.

Exactly. They can't prove that non-living material can become living. They can't even do it in theory, nor by design.

we are talking about evolution, stick on topic.

There's no basis for it. Furthermore, you can't prove it all came about naturally if it couldn't get off the ground and running naturally. It all falls apart.

Exactly. They can't prove that non-living material can become living. They can't even do it in theory, nor by design.

it can definitely happen in theory. What physical laws prevent life from forming?

There's no basis for it. Furthermore, you can't prove it all came about naturally if it couldn't get off the ground and running naturally. It all falls apart.

how? evolution asserts that there was some sort of proto-organism that appeared on earth a long time ago. Overtime, that organism's genome changed and thus formed the diversity of life we see today.

it can definitely happen in theory. What physical laws prevent life from forming?

It can happen in theory? Here's a short clip to give you some doubt.

Overtime, that organism's genome changed and thus formed the diversity of life we see today.

This doesn't happen in the real world. The evidence shows a wide variety of organisms, all fully developed, appearing at the same time. Genetics has increased the complexity of the situation and debunked the ability of natural selection and mutation to explain this.

It can happen in theory? Here's a short clip to give you some doubt.

so in other words, it can happen in theory, its just unlikely. not the same thing as impossible. either way, abiogenesis isnt the topic of this discussion , and it has nothing to do with evolution.

This doesn't happen in the real world. The evidence shows a wide variety of organisms, all fully developed, appearing at the same time. Genetics has increased the complexity of the situation and debunked the ability of natural selection and mutation to explain this

please elaborate

Your a god damn idiot. What you said is the biggest pile of steaming bullshit I've read in awhile. You've done too many drugs or something.

Please don't just hand wave things because they're inconvenient. The information is available for you to study if you'd like, and if you have questions I would be happy to answer them.

Thank you for fulfilling prophecy today.

"And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved." (Matthew 10:22)

Thanks for the information. I'm not against reading things that are contrary to my views. I'll read and watch these and get back to you.

Wonderful. Thank you for being open minded. :)

When I debate about these things, people are always quick to shoot me down as racist and never look at my links. I am an open minded person. There is never to much knowledge. It's ignorance to not look at things contrary to your view. I linked a few links in the topic, if you could look at them and tell me what you think that'd be great.

What links? I'm educated in the sciences and I'm well aware of evolution and the details of it. It's not scientific, nor is it factual. It's an unsubstantiated claim that has been long debunked and currently exists in its death throes.

Humans are humans and have always been human. There is no such thing as a subhuman, and science damns this idea today. In the past, it was possible to make this claim because science was not as sophisticated. That's not the case anymore.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18656315

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RxAhwYoZQKU&feature=youtu.be

https://genographic.nationalgeographic.com/neanderthal/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/11/141106143719.htm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2599854/Europeans-closer-Neanderthals-thought-Ancient-DNA-humans-species-interbreeding-outside-Africa.html

These are respectable sources. I truly believe them. After tons of research this is the conclusion I came too. We are all different based on where we spent tens of thousands of years separated from each other. I think human bio diversity is such an interesting science.

Thanks for being open minded. This is the best debate I've had that didn't devolve into ad homs from the other side.

Are you, or are you not, a moderator in such cutting-edge areas of free sociological debate as r/coontown and r/gasthekikes?

edit: CLIFFS - OP is probably right.

Yes sir I am. Does that invalidate my arguments?

Ad hominem gets a bad rap; it's little different from any other form of inductive reasoning, most of which is inherently fallacious in the structure of formal logic.

It certainly demonstrates that you're engaging in the very pose OP accuses your faction of 'never mind that I obviously love the fuck out of Nazism and hate the Jews, blacks, etc., we're just here to ask a few nagging questions.'

As for your 'arguments' - to me this is a very simple philosophical position. I take as an axiom so well-demonstrated that proofs would be burdensome that variation in talent, intellect, etc. between individuals of all races is vastly greater than that of the 'mass variation' between different racial and ethnic groups, to the extent that such things actually exist (I think they do; they demonstrably exist at the highest levels of competitive sport, for instance, and I think probably exist in some uncertain but real statistical form in other areas of endeavor.)

The point is these are nothing compared to the differences between man and man (or man and woman, or woman and woman) and that ultimately the only logical and ethical position is a personal moral effort against prejudice, which is inherently fallacious as well as an affront to the 'innocent until proven guilty' attitude that underpins any sense of justice in a free society.

Please watch this video. It is a refutation of every bit of that information all in one.

You seem confident with your comments but then if there is a mountain of evidence, why isn't the Arab world convinced? Briefly remembering some Iranian president denies the holocaust, I found this wiki page section. It lists Syria palistine and Iran, terrorisms favorite nations, as well as qatar and Saudi Arabia, which I think may propagate the saying regardless of truth to "fit in" and be like the other Arab nations but not necessarily deny it. But if the holocaust did indeed happen, then these anti-nwo deniers might just be trying to stir up hate/distrust against their attackers. I see a case for both sides but I really don't care to look into it all that much, kinda like the moon landing/conspiracy. I live my life like both happened but if they didn't happen, my life still won't change so I don't think it warrants any particular emphasis to study and I think a more productive use of our time could be learning about more recent (conspiratol?) developments. That being the case, I agree with /u/BadgerGecko that if we can, we should try to put this conspiracy to bed.

Why isn't the Arab world convinced?

IKR? They ain't got no horse in this race. /facepalm

But I agree, I need to get to work on making a thread to do it's best to prove the holocaust happened -.- that will no doubt be the most depressing project i've ever done. and i'mma do it free, for my fans, here on /r/conspiracy. Might take some time, i'mma try to be through as i can...

The Arab world is also no-shit convinced that if women are allowed to walk around without headscarves and travel without their husbands permission, civilization will collapse. That's like saying that the South Koreans believing in Fan Death is enough evidence in itself to balance out all the studies that say it's bullshit.

Spiritual beliefs should not be used to judge or guage a person's or group's credibility, largely because of important details hidden or buried deeply away from the unsuspecting general public.

I see a case for both sides but I really don't care to look into it all that much, kinda like the moon landing/conspiracy. I live my life like both happened but if they didn't happen, my life still won't change so I don't think it warrants any particular emphasis to study and I think a more productive use of our time could be learning about more recent (conspiratol?) developments.

Understanding the past helps us make sense of the present and predict the future. If you knew that the Holocaust was largely manufactured, and you knew that the Apollo missions to the Moon were fake, then you would perhaps begin to question the level of power and control that would be necessary to create this narratives and then perpetuate them for decades while still keeping them largely unquestioned by the masses. The Holocaust and the Apollo missions are two of the most important historical events/periods of the last century and have helped directly shape the world today, how would studying them be of no benefit?

• "Master Race" was not a phrase used by the "Nazis" -- it is an intentional mistranslation of "Herrenvolk" for propaganda purposes, (and see this.)

• There was no "Nazi" policy of exterminating homosexuals (and see this.) Confirmed by Professor Rubenstein of Yad Vashem: "My understanding is that no homosexuals were ever deported to the extemination camps. Those who died were in the German concentration camps, which were not killing centres as such." (As for gypsies - see this.)

• For the crazy experimentation stories there is no evidence beyond witness testimonies (and see this.) If you believe in this stuff, show some documents or some real proof.

And there's so tall a mountain of evidence to prove it did happen

Holocaust defenders like to talk about all of the evidence, but they never actually quote or link to it -- too busy with the ad-hominems.

Usually someone has said something nasty about the person in the media -- typically they're called a racist or an extremist -- and that's enough to smear their research. They are never refuted on the level of evidence.

You might want to check the credentials of the people you are citing.

Julia Gasper is an English specialist in eighteenth-century French literature and a right-wing political activist affiliated with the English Democrats. She used to be a member of the United Kingdom Independence Party (UKIP). A vociferous critic of LGBT rights, she has generated strong controversy in the British media for her comments regarding LGBT people, which have widely been deemed homophobic and transphobic.

Her article is not peer-reviewed either. The logical leaps made in the article are glaring, and she references sources from equally questionable authors with a clear political bias against homosexuals.

Typical ad hominem attack on the source, ignoring the specific content of her article.

It's irrelevant because a professor associated with Yad Vashem confirmed her research, saying there was no policy to exterminate homosexuals. Sources don't get more "establishment" than that.

Even NPR acknowledges that there was no such policy toward gay people:

http://www.npr.org/2014/12/17/371424790/between-world-wars-gay-culture-flourished-in-berlin

indeed, and i need to put a thread that has a comprehensive proof together, and probably should've before i posted this, but i didn't realize the revisionist would come out in such feverant numbers and anger over a simple question to the community if they felt prehaps the same way i do about the state of the sub as this time. Also, what were purple triangles for then?

You keep talking about evidence but never posting any.

If you read the article you'll see it [says] sodomy was illegal in Germany, (it was in many countries at the time -- prior to 1962 it was a felony in every US state). But there was no policy of exterminating homosexuals.

what was the purple triangle for? and i'm making that another post, whole nother topic, cause you guys successfully hijacked this one =) it will bring alot more information and be designed to educate more than simply conversate as this forum was suppose to allow.

edit: y u dv, u no know redditee nazi?

There wasn't a "Nazi" policy of exterminating Jehovah's Witnesses, either. They were imprisoned as pacifists -- i.e. for refusing to do military service. It wasn't "religious persecution", and the same thing happened up until the 90's in Switzerland, too.

Uh yeah there was.

Source: my JW great grandfather and grandmother were gassed in the camps.

There wasn't a "Nazi" policy of exterminating Jehovah's Witnesses.

How do you know they were gassed?

Eupherism, they might have been shot or used for experiments but point is they were never seen again after the soldiers took them.

Or perhaps they were transferred to eastern camps and settlements, were behind the "Iron Curtain" after the end of the war, were moved by the Soviets back further into the SU, told their families were dead, and died naturally in the decades between 1945 and 1989.

http://revblog.codoh.com/2010/05/well-where-are-they-then/#more-931

Not likely. My family has lived in the same house for generations, you'd think they would have at least sent a letter. Either way they wouldn't have stayed in USSR, it's pretty obvious they were murdered by the Nazis.

BTW, your blog link is full of revisionist nonsense.

it's pretty obvious they were murdered by the Nazis.

Obviously this is just your assumption. The gas chambers part of the Jewish catastrophe is demonstrably false, nor was there evidence of an official policy of extermination (quite the opposite) -- but there were many ways to die in Europe at the time, and groups of "Nazis" in the East surely murdered some Jews.

BTW, revisionism is natural, normal, and acceptable in all other areas of history... except Holocaust and WWII history! People are locked up, in Europe, to protect the ridiculous lies of the 1940's-60's show trials.

WHAT. WHAT. Okay I'm done here. Tagged as "neo-nazi, holocaust denier" and blocked in RES, I won't be seeing you on Reddit again. There's enough harmful bullshit in the world, I don't need some conspiracy theorist dickwad telling me that the murders of my family didn't happen. Nazi Germany was possibly the worst thing humanity has done in the past century, I can't believe even today there are hateful jerks that try to sugarcoat its crimes.

Come on, don't get upset. Try to be an adult about this. There are people in the world who don't share your beliefs about history -- because we have found the evidence contradicts those beliefs. Why is it so psychologically traumatic for you to consider that the US, UK and Soviet governments recycled old WWI atrocity stories and lied about the Germans during WWII?

Revisionists are human, just like you, and you should consider what we have to say rather than labeling and dehumanizing us. That makes you the intolerant hater.

http://codoh.com/library/document/1805/

just because it happened again, doesn't justify it. What were the purple triangles for?

I just told you, genius. Jehovah's Witnesses, who were were imprisoned as pacifists -- i.e. for refusing to do military service. Same as what happened up until the 90's in Switzerland.

Revisionists don't deny that there was social persecution in 1940's Germany or 1980's Switzerland, and that pacifists were jailed. (Many notable revisionists, such as Ernst Zundel, are pacifists themselves.)

Yeah, that was my bad, honest i own it. I ment pink. What was the pink triangle for?

Homosexuals -- imprisoned because sodomy was illegal, as it was in all US states until 1962. There was no policy of exterminating them, as confirmed by Professor Rubenstein of Yad Vashem. See also this article, or this one.

Identification? Or were they poison gas emitters?

if we're talking about pink triangles, they were an id. to mark the homosexual men. why would you need a system to make it plainly obvious who all the gays and jews are if there's not something there...? I mean, if today, all american christain had to wear a cross on thier person, all times, under plenty of imprisionment, and all american gays had to wear a pink sash, and all the jw had to wear..idk, those guys dress like mormons, um, armband, screw it, i wrecked politcal correctness before breakfast. anyways, why are tagging groups? making clear divisions? This other user here says they took action on those that burned the jewish ghettos, but that doesn't change the fact they made it pretty damn easy for anyone who might have a bone to pick with those ppl easy to find. and if i'm suppose to believe that the same poor jew in the ghetto is somehow as in deep as rothchild, then i call bullshit, or rockefeller sends me my cut of his cash for me being white.

Jews were there because of their role in attempting to enslave Germany in their bloodshed to create the Bavarian Soviet Republic.

There are.consequences for things like that

I'd like to see that too. Let the revisionists make their points, let the holyhoax believers make their claims. Then have some moderators google or research both sides to see who's more credible.

I agree, i never said it shouldn't be addressed. The last lines of my OP suggests that we keep things free speech around here.

I'm not really interested in what you agree with. Just reading you're comments it's obvious you would be worse than useless in helping out with this topic. Most of you're comments are hysterical bullshit.

so you agree they're hysterical! I'm so touched at this moment =)

Trust me, the day you figure out you're not as clever as you're mommy told ya. You'll be all the better for it.

my feelings T.T

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cmpzvyp

This same issue was brought up in a holocaust sticky and the top voted commenter and others were banned... They brought up solid concerns.

I've been here for 3 years. I've posted a on a pretty diverse range of subjects. I have 1661 karma from my posts in this sub. I've posted stories on Bush family connections to the Nazi regime, I've posted about about the Bormann flight capital plan. If I post anything that strays from the official narrative of Hitler was satan in the flesh ,I get called a neo-nazi.

If anything has changed here , it's been the ability to discuss both sides of the issue.

What we're experiencing is the influx of a generation of sheep, raised in an environment of politically correct speech who can't relate to the generation that doesn't self censor. It's not neo-Nazis or Zionist shills it's a generational clash.

If anything has changed here , it's been the ability to discuss both sides of the issue.

What we're experiencing is the influx of a generation of sheep, raised in an environment of politically correct speech who can't relate to the generation that doesn't self censor. It's not neo-Nazis or Zionist shills it's a generational clash.

I believe you are spot on. I've seen many comments here asking why the mods allow posts regarding the holocaust, and saying that the subreddit would be much more credible if they banned "antisemitic posts." It scares me that so many people want that kind of censorship to be enacted. This sub is supposed to be a bastion for open discussion and free thinking regarding any topic that is conspiratorial or "alternate" in nature.

The day this subreddit begins banning entire topics from being discussed is the day I stop coming here.

or know how to use the down vote, i stayed on topic, you bragged your account size because you can't hold to my statement. you look at it, read it and go damn it, i gotta deflect. weak sauce sir. 3 years and you're still a noob.

It wasn't bragging it was meant to show that I participate. I didn't deflect, I gave examples based on my own personal experience.

You have 5 posts here, in 9 months with 6 karma. I guess you know better than I .

but you won't deny being ignorate of how the downvote works. well, lest you've been playing in politcs long enough to talk like one. And you did deflect, ya didn't answer the question. For the sake of arguement, I give you the holocaust never happened (for this conversation), does that mean you're good with the whole nazi master race thing? hm?

Yep someone has different views from yours, it must be a shady vote brigading neo-Nazi organization.....

Downvotes are not a dislike or suppress button, they are meant for things to don't add to the DISCUSSION. We discuss things here, it sounds like you want to limit what is being discussed rather than provide evidence that supports your views. Reddit doesnt work that way sorry.

I don't believe in aliens at all, or lizard people. I get downvoted by the people who do. I don't think for second that we're "being infiltrated" by a pro extraterrestrial vote brigade when that happens to me. I just think "wow this theory is becoming more mainstream, maybe I should I give it another look". You're never going to get everyone here to agree to one thing.

I don't use my dv as a dislike, i haven't yet still. only ones that are doing that are you. only ones demanding an echo chamber. you. you sir, are everything you claim me to be. weak sauce.

edit: or say anything about brigading, that was joke we were running yesterday, keep up. I also don't edit my posts later to waggle my post size after the fact either. mr. 3 years mr you only got 6 karma from posts so i'm superior to you.

A nazi that thinks he's superior! SHOCKER

Wtf is wrong with you? Are you like, 17 years old?

He reminds me of my early keyboard warrior days.

Did you not allow yourself to be distracted from the main question, either? Cause it's not a keyboard or screen that gives me the courage to ask those questions. If that's the only way you could in your young days, i pity thee =)

What? I was commenting on the style/lack of proper grammatical skill used in presenting your "argument". Carry on, youngster.

you deflect to my age/maturity instead of answering the question. Nazis-sans Holocaust, yes or no?

If you ask me, you and your supporters in here are the shills. What you're posting about is nonsense. You're trying to direct any conversation on the subject of the holocaust to your viewpoint. Thats not very conducive to asking question and getting answers. You're trying to censor the subject by altering the narrative. As for your implied stance on some of the discrepancies of the holocaust, you may be right on some but you're definitely not completely right. Nor are the holocaust deniers. The reason why talking about it is healthy is to filter out the wrong and uncover more truth. What you are attempting to do is not what this sub is about. There is no conspiracy on /r/conspiracy other than that of shills, such as yourself, trying to steer conversations in the direction they want it to go.

I couldn't agree more.

On a side note, this thread is being astroturfed HARD.

Oh lol, that is a hilarious twisting of what OP said.

you realize that "shills" can work in both ways right?

no no no, you don't know me at all sir. And anyone who does is lol right now at me being called a shill. what i'm posting about is the damned truth, and it's happening daily now. I kept quiet at first, cause I thought, eh, they'll get board once they see no one is that stupid, but low and behold, stupid ppl amaze me yet again!

You're trying to direct any converastion on the subject of the holocaust to your viewpoint.

Nazi white trash, you aholes are the ones doing just that! Trying to convience naive but open minds that maybe the holocaust didn't happen. maybe it wasn't all that bad. Maybe hitler was onto something. Then, when you get called out on it, you do this! Deflect, you're a shill lol Jews are evil and your JDIF;\ here to hide the true history from these poor misguided souls!

What a load of crap. So call me a shill for a third time ya no rate nazi, and come back when you have the balls to admit that's what cha are. ya seen how many i've silenced so far. none of you zing hiles mother fuckers will own it. Cause you know the moment ya do, you'll lose those precious recruits ya came here for.

Nazi white trash, you aholes are the ones doing just that!

You're doing it right there. You're accusing me of being a Nazi because I allow the conversation to take place without bias. Your terrible grammar and spelling aside, that's why you're an idiot. That is why you are irrelevant. The only way you've "silenced so many" is because they don't care to argue with a fool. So, go on your stupid rants. Spout your stupid shit. You're have 0 impact on anyone. Certainly none on me. I hope you get over whatever issues you have and live happily. Farewell.

I accuse ppl of being shills and then claim to be unbias. Any opinion not by me is stupidity, and has no impact.

and you still dodged the question, ya resorted to grammar nazi cause you can't hold ground, and ya ran away. Sounds about right for the 3rd reiche to me. lol

Calling someone a shill has nothing to do with bias. How old are you? You sound like a teenager. You are far less smart than you think you are and anyone with any sense can tell you know nothing about what you're talking about. You know it too. I'm sorry you're so worked up about this. I hope you get over it.

i'll get over when you answer the question. Nazis, sans the holocaust, you in?

*popcorn intensifies*

The shills are just mad, you are calling them out. Relax.

Their speech pattern is very similar. They usually always resort to personal jabs.

I take issue when they bring up valid points worth discussion and then claim that their side of the story is fact. When, in fact neither side can be suggest to be 100% verifiable. Those who do know, arent telling. And i suspect they wont tell for a very, very long time.

Was it 6 million jews killed? Or only a hundred thousand? Does it matter? A shit ton of people were killed during ww2, thats what matters. Fighting over the numbers, or any other point that may or may not be factual in the conventional narrative does nothing hut distract us from the real issues.

No one is perfect, no entity is absolutely pure. In parallel, i believe in the opposite as well. No entity is purely evil. All wars are fought by good men. Each soldier believes they are doing justice, while their brothers and themselves give up their livrs fighting for whst they believe in. That is what matters. The manipulation from both sides and the propaganda thereof is what matters.

With that said, if we dont, at the very least, lend an ear to what some have to say, no matter how controversial, a part of our history could very well be lost forever.

Was it 6 million jews killed? Or only a hundred thousand? Does it matter?

That does matter somewhat. But I think the most important issue is how they died. Was it gas chambers like some claim or was it typhus like others claim? That makes a huge difference in the way we perceive current world events as well as our history.

What i meamt by that is there were millions and millions of people who died. And not jist in concentration camps, yet some folks focus all their attention on that one group. The tragedy of ww2 wasnt the holocaust. It was the entire war.

And i believe we cant get into conversation about the holocaust without considering the conditions for the war, i.e. causes, motives, players, etc..., thus to focus on one group of people who died in a massive war tends to lead to suspicions of ill intent.

I do agree that the causes of the deaths are probably more important. The issue is we simply do not know. We have credible sources on either side. And i do agree with you, as the official narrative might be incorrect, yet everybody grows up hearing it and believing it as fact, which then indoctrinates them into a bad vs evil mentality ehen skimming through the history books. This changes how we perceive other people in current events, too.

But like i said, i dont believe in the good vs bad mantra. There is bad in good people, and there is certainly good in bad people. I feel like this is the more beneficial viewpoint when concerning holocaust discussions. However, most people feel thst hitler was only bad and thst churchhill was only good and that the allies onpy did good and the "axis of evil" only did bad. This type of black or white perspective destriys critical and logical thinking, well before numbers are concerned, or the causes of deaths.

Thsts what i meant, i hope i cleared thst up a little (without demeaning your points, as i found myself agreeing.)

without considering the conditions for the war, i.e. causes, motives, players, etc

I agree. And it would behoove us to have open discussions about that as well. There are (at least) two sides to every story. Unfortunately, most of the time we only get to hear one side. That's what I like about this subreddit in particular and the internet in general, we can discuss just about anything and hear all sides.

Thsts what i meant, i hope i cleared thst up a little (without demeaning your points, as i found myself agreeing.)

I wasn't trying to disagree with anything you said either. Just expanding on that one point.

thus to focus on one group of people who died in a massive war tends to lead to suspicions of ill intent.

It is pretty obvious that ill intent was there;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

You're shadowbanned man (or woman). I've approved your comment but at this point it may just be best for you to make a new account - or message the admins.

Whoever is fucking spamming the mod queue with stupid bullshit reasons of why I should censor OP, it's only hurting your cause. Do not abuse the report button.

Answer these questions without looking up the answers:

1. How many Jews died in WWII?

2. How many Americans died in WWII?

Most Americans won't know the answer to 2 but will readily answer "six million" to 1.

Why is that?

I don't know about you but much of the history I've been taught has turned out to be lies.

The jews love victim narratives.

Cui bono?

History class, and the fact it's justa big but easy to remember number. idk how many americans died, sorry. I know we didn't lose nearly as many as the russians did. ofcourse, they also did all the hard ground work while we waited and bombed...but anyways,i get what you're saying, how does the nation remember rthe number of jews dead in the camps more easily than the number of soliders that gave thier lives for freedom. Same could be said about 9/11 though. ppl know the tower death tolls easy, ask em how many of our boys died defending our freedom afterwars, and not many are gonna have that answer.

The larger question is why are Americans so ignorant of their own history but not so ignorant of another nation's historical narrative?

"It is only when the people become ignorant and corrupt, when they degenerate into a populace, that they are incapable of exercising their sovereignty. Usurpation is then an easy attainment, and an usurper soon found. The people themselves become the willing instruments of their own debasement and ruin." - James Monroe (1758-1831), 5th US President Source: First Inaugural Address, 1817

Monroe, like most of those that started up this great nation of ours, was beyond wise.

So if we know the history of another nation but lack knowledge of our own history, who would be the usurper of which Monroe speaks?

Perhaps the nation whose history we know better than our own?

i'd agree, except i'm certain i know my american history over all better than my israeli. like exact numbers or dates, no my brain doesn't seem to enjoy locking things down like that, but moments in history? It's such an amazing story (and sometimes so obviously a fairy tale) that I soaked all that up like a sponge. From Roanoak to the Moon Play, i mean, landing, i'm pretty familar with us history. on the other hand, i know some early israeli history from the old testiment, but not so much i would concider myself well versed, and the only things i really know about israeli are the wars she fights and that time at the olympics.

But you, like the majority of Americans, know how many Jews died in the 1940s without having to look it up while not knowing how many of your own people were killed.

I wish Americans would get as bent out of shape about that fact as they do about those of us that question the history we're told to believe.

What if the real conspiracy is by OP, intended to drive out/downvote holocaust conspiracy posts by making everyone think that they are by nazis?

don't suppose you'd take my word i'm not that smart o.o?

You can easily spot the shills. They don't know how to keep a discussion civil without resorting to personal jabs. The minute I read someone cussing and calling names, I stop reading what he has to say... and depending on how charitable I feel, proceed to downvote.

Look at their choice of usernames also.

Yep, why the mods aren't doing anything about this obvious and completely transparent attack on this subreddit, maybe they just don't care and don't see how important a "conspiracy" "alternative worldview" community on a major social media website on the internet would be - so they just pander to anyone who posts here(like stickying AMAs from holocaust deniers who also call themselves zionists and are just obviously not very well-spoken or educated, or nuanced in their views of the world ..so basically just another person who discredits the entire subreddit with a personal stickied post at the top of the frontpage for extended periods of time).

But when you've got all the neonazi scumbag trash or "shills"(like TTrns and his other alt accounts) posting here on days/weeks/months old reddit accounts about shit that influences nothing and no one except the minds of people who are looking for a way to write off /r/conspiracy and 'conspiracy theories' by associating it with nazi apologists and neonazis/holocaust deniers - it's pretty fucking obvious what's going on.

So what gives, mods of /r/conspiracy? These people aren't genuine, they cannot and don't answer questions about their real views when asked within the topics they post - they just post links to racist/neonazi websites written by complete idiots and then abandon the thread once someone asked them what they really think - so that means either they're shills and don't really hold the views they are trying to associate /r/conspiracy with, or they're just so blatantly racist and idiotic that they know they can't post their 'real views' here without being immediately shot down and laughed at by everyone.

Why is this shit even allowed here? This holocaust shit they post here isn't even a fucking conspiracy, if you want to debate whether 4,000,000 or 6,000,000 jews really died in WWII, you can make your own subreddit or do it on a neo-nazi website where you all jerk yourselves off about jews and find someone you can place all the blame for the state of the world on with your simple-minded childish thinking - why are they being allowed to consistently do it here?

On the other hand - having people do this here is exactly what COINTELPRO would do. There are no more non-virtual civil rights movements, there are no more non-virtual groups for the government to infiltrate or discredit. The 'battle' for people's minds now happens on the internet - and so associating all 'alternative' schools of thought(alternative to the obvious bullshit that comes out of the officially authorized social narrative that is) with something that 90% of Americans and westerners view as despicable and retarded(holocaust denial/neonazis/nazi apologists) - is a perfect strategy.

There are NONSTOP posts that aren't even about conspiracies here, that are just negativity towards jews - like that's somehow a conspiracy. Or like "The IDF attacked people" is a conpiracy ..the IDF is an ethnic group's military, they attack other ethnic groups, the same as every other ethnic or national military force on Earth. Whether 1,000,000 jews or 6,000,000 jews disappeared in the holocaust is not a conspiracy or relevant to this subreddit, and it changes absolutely nothing about the meaning and "the truth" surrounding the holocaust(the truth being that a state and its military apparatus kidnapped/killed millions of people by forcing them to be slave-labor for it's industrial and war machines, which is unacceptable and inexcusable, regardless of the ethnicity involved - and there were most certainly lots of jewish people forced into slavery there, probably because the western or German elite decided they wanted to steal their shit and not have opposition to it - and because jews were an easy target because they like to be an exclusionary little cult/club that keeps itself away from integration with the host society).

None of this shit is really a conspiracy. It's just something that associates /r/conspiracy with holocaust deniers and neonazis/hitler apologists(idiots), and spoils, pollutes, and discredits all the real content posted here - and it's almost always posted by people on alt accounts/new reddit accounts who can't or won't even defend their own "views" - either because they aren't their views and they are just shills here to do a job of online cyber-infiltration, or because they are too dumb to manage to. Either way, they should not be allowed to have their shit posts here on the front page constantly(because they got 28 upvotes or something).

If a post is anti-jew, not a conspiracy, and is posted by a person using an account under a few months old - it should be deleted and that person should be banned for indirectly attacking this subreddit.

Dude, please stop making making things up about me -- you don't like the content of my posts, I get that. But you make these long, ranting, ad-hominem [attacks] which contain completely made-up fantasies about me being a "neo nazi" and "blaming the jews for everything" and "using multiple accounts"... please, cite evidence for your claims, or stop.

Skepticism of 1940's wartime propaganda is not "anti-semitism" so please stop playing this card.

you and your multiple <3 days/3 weeks/3 months, posting shitpost links from websites that call black people apes and apologize for hitler, into /r/conspiracy - while being either incapable or unwilling to defend the views you act like you hold - what would you call that behavior, bud?

You either don't hold these views which means you're here posting shit you don't even believe in in a way that connects this community to neonazi propaganda bullshit(or just things average people will dismiss out of contempt while associating it with all other 'conspiracy' content and dismissing all of that as well), or you know your views can't stand up to scrutiny - which means they should not be spread and are not actually valid. Either way, you're a problem and you contribute nothing of worth, so are your other alt accounts. You and all of your accounts should be banned here as soon as they pop up posting nazi apologist/anti-jew/meaningless, irrelevant, non-conspiracy racist shit - or votebrigading, which I'm sure you do as well, because as soon as I make a post in one of your threads I'll get -5 or -8 downvotes or more without even 2 posts in response to you existing in the thread, along with a few responses to me from your others days/weeks/months old alt accounts.

you and your multiple

Evidence? You're just slinging shit and trying to get some to stick. [You're been doing this repeatedly, over the last week.]

links from websites that call black people apes

Evidence?

apologize for hitler

I have plenty of criticism of Hitler, his decisions, and his policy to expel all Jews. If you read my comments you'll see this.

The problem is that you're not intelligent or mature enough to understand that people can disagree with you about WWII history and not be "neo nazi anti-semites".

If you want the evidence TTrns is asking me for, click on his reddit username and look back through the threads he has posted in the past(I wouldn't doubt that he will go and delete them now for the purposes of this little meta-conspiracy thread, though). Go to the websites his links are posted from.

Look through the threads and see the multiple < days/weeks/months old reddit accounts giving him fake support, all written in the same petty tone that TTrns makes his posts in. Don't pretend, TTrns.

If you want the evidence TTrns is asking me for, click on his reddit username and look back through the threads he has posted in the past ... Go to the websites his links are posted from.

Lol. If this is true, post the specific evidence.

That's a lot of words to say "you are making us look silly to outsiders!!!!!!"

You are never going to be able to gain mainstream respect for this subreddit -- Holocaust revisionism/denial or not. The sub might as well be named /r/Contrarianism.

You are never going to be able to gain mainstream respect for this subreddit -

It's not about RESPECT it's about credibility, people can ignore and pretend, but when something really happens they look to places like /r/conspiracy for information on it - whether you know it or not, that's what the rest of reddit does here. If it's full of "anti-jew hate the jew evil jew jew jew holocaust was good jew jew jew", it's makes people dismiss everything else here and everything else anyone who isn't parroting the latest propaganda has to say.

So is the problem that the people have these views, or that it appears that lately A LOT of people have these views?

Would you be angry at feminists blaming everything on the "patriarchy"? What about Black Supremacists blaming everything on whites (who were created 6000 years ago by a wizard named Yakub by meshing pig DNA with a monkey)? What about smelly-hippies who blame everything on Jesuits/Freemasons/Luciferianism?

Do you have a problem with those people too?

It really just seems like you are upset with the # of people, not the ideology they espouse.

So is the problem that the people have these views, or that it appears that lately A LOT of people have these views?

the problem is that "a lot of" reddit accounts who have been registered within the past 3 days, 3 weeks, or 3 months are the ones to seem to "have A LOT of these views" and post A LOT of them here in /r/conspiracy - without even being willing or able to back up what they are posting with their own words or views, meaning they don't actually hold those views and are shills, OR, their views are so blatantly and humorously racist that they know they can't post them because they will be ripped to shreds by anyone with a brain and laughed at.

[deleted]

jesus christ I'm talking about the people you're talking about, not you, you should have kept reading because you took the whole post that you're responding to backwards and I don't really know how you managed to do that. I'm on your side and with you, and what you are pointing out in this thread is something I've seen and been aware of for a year or more now.

til a lesson on being too quick to judge. the total irony that surrounds this moment is not lost on me. -.-

yeah no it's ok if I were you I would have been expecting instant backlash from the neonazis too

Whether 1,000,000 jews or 6,000,000 jews disappeared in the holocaust is not a conspiracy or relevant to this subreddit, and it changes absolutely nothing about the meaning and "the truth" surrounding the holocaust

That is quite a vast difference in numbers. Israel was created because of the persecution the Jews suffered in Germany (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong). That has led to a number of difficulties over the years, I would like to know the truth.

That is quite a vast difference in numbers. Israel was created because of the persecution the Jews suffered in Germany (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong). That has led to a number of difficulties over the years, I would like to know the truth.

Oh my fuck, Israel is a nation founded by an ethnic group, every other 'ethnic group' has their own nation states, and none of the other hundreds of ethnic groups needed a holocaust to create their own state or military, or to justify doing whatever the fuck they want with those miliaries to others.

You're kidding yourself and it's a meaningless, dishonest distinction to make, not to mention a waste of time, not to mention discredits(rightfully so) anyone focusing on that and thinking that's the meaningful part of what we know as 'the holocaust'.

I've read your comment a couple of times and I'm not quite sure what are you are saying.

I apologise it has been a long day

Israel was not created for jews because of the holocaust, Israel was created by the European/Western nobility to use the recently homeless ethnicity of "jew" to fuck with the arab world and give the west a built-up base of operations in the land of the only people(arabs) left in the world with an economic, political, and legal system independent of them(them being the western elite) and independent of their control or direct influence. This is also why Israel is so well-funded and well-armed by the US and the western world. It's good for business. It isn't because jews control the world, that's a complete joke, and it isn't out of compassion for a blighted people.

This whole thing about "the jews" doing it is bullshit. They were given a piece of land from the Brits in the middle of their fiercest enemies(the muslims/arabs), surrounded by them. The jews have existed for thousands of years and were never strong enough to create their own state until 50 years ago, they didn't do this, and the UN didn't do it out of compassion. Talking about the holocaust as if it's relevant is just another distraction and smokescreen to disguise the real issues and discredit the people who look for 'the real issues'. The holocaust was used as a justification for the creation of the state of Israel, but it's bullshit anyways, so it's totally and absolutely irrelevant how many jews died there. It's just a piece of propaganda like any other founding mythos to any other country is.

Trying to downplay the holocaust isn't going to help anyone, it's just going to make normal people despise you and not change anything about "the truth"(to which the number of jews dead is not relevant, the truth is what I just typed above here - although it wasn't put that way to the jews themselves - because all nations need good founding mythologies. It's normal and happens all over the world with every nation, a fake, inspiring founding story or mythos.).

There are a lot of opinions and assertions in your post.

None of it provable

EDIT:

Fixed my awful english. I right too lines and get that wrong (sic)

There are a lot of opinions and assurtions in your post.

No of it provable

Ok, well it's spelled "assertions", and I think you're looking for the word "none" in the second line there. :/

Thank you I will correct

There are NONSTOP posts that aren't even about conspiracies here, that are just negativity towards jews.

I agree to an extent. The people you're talking about tend to start off with Zionism and Israel and then get into jews and yids, with a lot of click bait trash. However, I also keep a very close eye on what I can coming from Tel Aviv. Not because of some worldwide jewish conspiracy, but because asshole governments can and do asshole things.

Israel- though pretty well hated, is also well connected; especially in the global banking system. The Mossad (especially their department of collections), to borrow a line from Die Hard, are well-financed, and very slick.

I'm all for discussion and debate. I'm a BigHistory Shill well versed in the Official Story.

What i don't like is pamphleteering and spam. Dropping links (usually to crudely made photo spreads using mspaint) without context or expansion on the idea. That to me is propaganda and really should have no place in this sub.

These people aren't genuine, they cannot and don't answer questions about their real views when asked within the topics they post - they just post links to racist/neonazi websites written by complete idiots and then abandon the thread once someone asked them what they really think

I think you hit the nail on the head there. I couldn't put my finger on what made it seem so shady and deliberate.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2resvl/12_things_you_were_not_told_about_adolph_hitler/cnfh197

I find there are a group of people claiming US allowed 9/11 to happen and point fingers at Saudi. Come on now, we know about WTC7. It had to be explosives.

There are elements of both the Right and Left (political-compass is a false-dichotomy, but lets not open that can of worms right now) that have issues with Jews/Israel/"Zionism".

Is the purpose of this sub to discuss "alternate history" or is it not? Outside of some much smaller subreddits, /r/Conspiracy is probably the only place where people can discuss the subject without being banned or have their comment removed. (Earlier in this thread, someone asked why they don't just go to /r/holocaust. Well because that sub has 800 readers and this one has 277 thousand.)

OF COURSE they are going to come to the largest subreddit where they can discuss their idea.

Either argue against their points/ignore them/or move on.

I am saying this on an alt because I fear I maybe banned for this. There is a mod here that use to mod /r/holocaust which is the largest holocaust denial sub. If this is happening it is coming from the mods themselves.

There is a mod here that use to mod /r/holocaust which is the largest holocaust denial sub.

And which one was that?

And which one was that?

Please don't encourage personal attacks on the mods here.

Sorry, it just didn't seem like a personal attack to me. Just something that occurred. I wanted him to know that it isn't us causing all this drama is all.

It wasn't strictly a personal attack... but could easily turn into one with a 'jump on the bandwagon' attack fest. That's what I meant by "encourage".

flytape

I see. I can tell you from what I've seen he doesn't do denial but he is somewhat revisionistic in his views.

At any rate I can tell you that we as mods are taking a look at what OP is talking about.

This should tell you everything about the mods in question.

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cmpzvyp

This same issue was brought up in a holocaust sticky and the top voted comment speaks for itself. That user and others were banned, you should check out the conversations between flytape and other users in that thread.

A lot of the people off SRD are retarded and many are flat out liars and that's who was behind all that. Only a fool would take anything posted to that sub as truth. You'll notice that /u/CoincidenceTheory was shadowbanned. He manipulating votes etc using alts etc... to smear him by any means that he could. That whole thing was just a big lie to smear him. I saw all this behind the scenes.

If you read the rest of that AMA and see how flytape interacts with OP you'll notice his actual views.

I did read the rest of the AMA.

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cmq7o9j

Are you really defending this type of behavior..?

Stop manufacturing outrage to try and gain control of this sub

He told it like it was and was downvoted for it or it was brigaded by the assholes off subredditdrama. He certainly could have worded that better but in this case the community was wrong about what was occurring. They were being fed bullshit from people off /r/subredditdrama and were believing it. He tried setting the record strait. There's not anymore to be said about. At this point I'm starting to suspect you're just a troll too.

Ok. I'm speechless. You ignored the key points of his comment. Not going to waste my time with someone who convolutes and ignores the issue.
Good luck as a mod sir.

Okay, key points I took away from his post.

• Dude from SRD is an idiot and was manufacturing drama. Flytape wanted him to go away.

• We don't censor unpopular topics

• Unpopular documentary was stickied because it was voted highest.

Is there something I'm missing?

Forcing an AMA promoting a holocaust revisionist in a sticky with the majority of subscribers disapproving and telling them to "fuck off" - is a way to go about moderating this subreddit? Not only was David Cole an obscure choice with no community input—he ended up being an admitted Zionist. And promoted the official 9/11 narrative.

Your bullet points completely convolute the issue here.

The issue: Axol and Flytape force fed this sub holocaust BS while banning dissenters and ignoring the 80% of comments in the sticky thread denouncing the upcoming AMA they had forced. Remember: they hand picked David Cole themselves, with no subreddit knowledge. People got angry, specifically because of their past history.

These same 2 mods were responsible for FAKING a 9/11 Truth AMA with A&E founder Richard Gage. This is right after the same mods removed a 9/11 documentary in September for a Hitler doc. People subscribed here aren't very fond of coincidences like these. They raise suspicions. As they should.

This is a conspiracy subreddit — why don't these instances alarm you? Wouldn't you expect a lot of people to become suspicious? Mods' actions should be held to a high standard.

why does it seem the only people who don't see the issue, are the very mods and friends in question? Scroll through that thread, stop using SRD as a scapegoat.

Forcing an AMA promoting a holocaust revisionist in a sticky with the majority of subscribers disapproving

The thread was brigaded by SRD.

Not only was David Cole an obscure choice with no community input—he ended up being an admitted Zionist. And promoted the official 9/11 narrative.

Really we thought it was pretty awesome. :) People didn't have to like the AMA, we just wanted to make sure the conversation stayed on track. People were always free to not click on it.

The Gage thing wasn't intentional, they didn't fake it.

stop using SRD as a scapegoat.

But that's all that was.

The whole thing was just brigaded.

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cms3oqj

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cmrtag3

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cmsbrh6

If you looked at the AMA itself things went just fine. You've made an issue of a non-issue. Later.

Looks like you guys are trying to find a reason ban me, according to the mod logs.

Convolute the issues I bring up all you want, but really? Ban me?

You and your hitler-agenda crew act no different than the forces in power IRL. Corruption is absolute. Shame.

Well if it is coming from the mods (on alts of course) I don't see anything changing.

I really don't think this is the case. In fact we were all pretty pissed off when one of our documentary threads was brigagded in such a fashion. The one you're thinking is at fault was the one of the ones most interested in correcting the problem.

If you know of some other place on the net where people are gathering and coming over here please let us know. We'd love to hear about it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/holocaust/comments/1w5g0k/holocaust_denial_is_bad_but_killing_all_white/

Yeah, we know about the people off /r/subredditdrama. What are you getting at?

I was showing you a link that implied that he was a holocaust denier. /r/SubredditDrama just happened to be there, I was showing the link, more specifically how he titled it.

Not all of em. I know for a fact there is atleast one good mod around here, or my ass would've been banned by now. I think it's /u/creq, because he's a real big keep things free speech around here, which I totally approve. But he's only been here for a month, so there's atleast one more that has been here about a year or so that let me keep green light. So no, it can't be the mod team, and if one mod happens to be on that side of the issue, that doesn't mean the whole team is. o.o

I didn't mean the whole team, but certain ones do appear suspicious.

i've been here a year, which is some time, but hardly a vet of the board. In that time I don't think i've ever disagreed with final rulings by mods, but then again, i doubt there were that many that involved me. i have seen that they do allow an unprecidented amount of free speech here. I love free speech, i do. I think it's great, and i know that means for it to be truely free you gotta let anything fling, including the crap. I think that's where alot of ppl misunderstood me on the OP. I'm not saying we should ban the speech, that's counter productive as all get, but I do think that when this subject hits, ppl get heated, and so i thought we could as a community discuss the situation civiilly. and at first that worked out, but i got caught in fevor, and much like Alex Jones, proved to be my own worst enemy in the conversation =)

If it can be destroyed by the truth, it deserves to be destroyed by the truth. Dont live in darkness and lies, just cause someone might call you racist. The truth does not fear investigation.

It is starting to get a bit like /pol in here. I don't mind alt discussions of historical events, but there is a lot of race baiting going on lately. I'm not interested in hearing about white power ideology. Want to talk about inconsistencies in the holocaust, fine. Want to talk about lazy niggers, money grubbing Jews, etc... Fuck off back to /pol

Also: there is something fishy in here. Some of the comments are so over the top, I can't help but think of is this asshole. http://www.commondreams.org/hambaconeggs

It's either confused people who are missing the big picture (divide and conquer), or confused people who are purposly trying to distort the big picture (bipolarbear0 comes to mind). Either way, fuck you

It is starting to get a bit like /pol in here

same sort of shenanigans at work.

I did nazi see this coming. Not at all.

That is not funny Anne Frankly I am offended.

Most of the revisionary stuffs I've seen on here hasn't been that anti-Semitic, just a search for a truth that may be out there. There is nothing wrong with that. There are facts out there dealing with the holocaust that would lead people to question it. Post WW1 war reparations Germany got saddled with. Land being stolen from Germany. Hitler being mad about it. Hitler seeing the jewish elite control the media/money. Potential typhus in the concentration camps. Those in themselves are a boon for the biggest conspiracy of all, money and interest. And the jews do in fact belong in that conspiracy as they said “You shall not charge interest on loans to your brother" Brother meaning a fellow jew, so everyone else was ok to exploit. Did every jewish person do this? No. I digress. The holocaust sentiment in this forum has merit and shouldn't be belittled or be lumped in as a skinhead for doing so.

The fact that you've essentially called all revisionists Nazis makes me extremely suspicious of this post.

This event has undoubtedly driven Western policy post-WWII. This policy has destroyed a lot of lives, so questions should be asked in a society that supposedly champions free speech, particularly when considering the number of discrepancies in the official narrative (constant revision of the figures, witnesses found to be lying, Nuremberg confessions obtained by torture, Auschwitz chimney not being attached to the building, no evidence of Zyklon B in the gas chambers, gas chambers not being hermetically sealed, no evidence of mass graves, and so on)

I just follow the evidence with stuff like this, and pay very little attention to emotions or social hysteria when forming conclusions (I think it's the INTP in me), so I have to say that the fact that this is such a sacred cow does baffle me somewhat. Particularly when considering that Obama himself denies the Armenian genocide.

The fact is that this sub may have been infiltrated by Stormfront, but it has also been infiltrated by JIDF, and both parties are just two sides to the same coin IMO.

I agree that way too many ppl on here try to make baseless accusations, put words in ppls mouths, and even outright just harsh language em til they run outta braincells to keep clickin the keys.

The fact is that this sub may have been infiltrated by Stormfront, but it has also been infiltrated by JIDF, and both parties are just two sides to the same coin IMO.

Yep, and black propaganda is very effective.

So what you're saying is anyone who questions the official narrative of the holocaust is a nazi sympathyser.

That's not critical thinking and that's not supportive of free speech.

certainly never said that.

Your examples of hate speech weren't hate speech at all, you just want to censor people because of whatever cognitive biases you possess.

i've never called for censorship either. you guys don't even debate, you just make stuff up and then dv the response. rinse repeat. conversation over wht pwr guy that still hasn't addressed the topic of this thread, or take the topic you guys hijacked it with, and address it in the properly labeled forums. my grammar may suck, but you guys can't reddit for shit.

You're using political language and logical fallacies to discredit a point of view you don't agree with. I didnt just make stuff up, I've never spoken to you about this before.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism

It's pretty obvious. They slowed down on their vote-brigadig after I called them out, but they just space out the votes now to make them look like they're coming from this sub.

What vote brigading? Holocaust posts rarely get beyond 30 upvotes. And when they do, hysterical people like you start making baseless accusations, calling people names, and generally throwing tantrums.

Haha no.

History is full of great atrocities, written and unwritten. While the idea of a group trying to steer this subreddit in a particular direction doesn't seem that far fetched, I don't think it's neo nazis. I think it's people who try to take the zionist aspect, and keep applying it to judaism in an effort to make us look like neo nazis. Instead of fearing the elitist puppet masters, it paints us in a negative light as a hate group, confused and misguided.

I personally think it's somewhat pointless to talk about things like the holocaust. I feel discussions on current events and trying to figure out what's going on NOW are much more interesting and potentially productive.

I agree. But history does affect the future, and does repeat itself if we forget it, so if it did happen, and I think it did, obviously, then to see it revisioned as something of a summer camp can be flustering. Not enough to bring anger, but enough that I thought it would be nice to talk with the community about the situation. =) for the most part it has been.

I completely agree that we must strive to keep a record and reminders of history, but the reality is that the only way we will discover the truth about history is to start talking about right NOW. If there ARE hidden truths about the Holocaust, JFK, Watergate, etc. they will forever remain hidden if we don't dismantle the power structure that is still in place to this day.

http://www.np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2ooful/david_colestein_holocaust_revisionist_filmmaker/cmpzvyp

This same issue was brought up in a holocaust sticky and the top voted comment shares the same sentiments. That user and others were banned.

so if i do prove it, i will be banned from here for life? That's a crappy prize for wading through hours of holocaust stuff... -.-

Angry Jew detcted.

GTFO Mr. Cohen

i'm not jewish, by race or religion o.o; but i suppose it's better than calling me a shill ya red neck neo ... phyte..... who's Cohen?

anyone who disagrees with me or points out the atrocities of Israel and the zionists is an ANTI-SEMITE NAZI!

https://i.imgur.com/4TlIWIY.png <-- why did this make me think of you?

I never called anyone an anti-semite have i? are all nazis anti-semites? are all anti-semites nazis? and i'm not even botherin with the pic, if you could hold an intelligent conversation, you would do so instead of such petty plays.

isn't it interesting that there is no term for pro-semite, only a word for those who have caught on to the bullshit?

WAT?

Your terrible grammar/spelling, use of stupid smiley faces/lol's and repeated insults in comments are a dead giveaway. It's unrealistic to think that a post this unsophisticated can get so many upvotes without help.

Precisely. JIDF is rolling hard on this thread...

I don't agree with this at all. Though I dont exactly agree with a revisionist; "neo-nazi" is not something I would call them. I have never heard hate speech from a revisionist but more so from the people disagreeing with them. Freedom of speech allows for people to speak their mind regardless of how other people react to it. If someone wants to look into the inconsistencies of history, dont demonize them because they dont share a "truth" most of the population follows willingly and blindly.

If you don't agree with it, then that is fine. Demonizing a said group because their ideas clash with yours is hate-speech and fear mongering. The sub (to me) sees more hate towards individuals who express honest opinions backed by fact, then sees "all the jews must die".

As a matter of fact I've never once seen a revisionist say "hiel hitler" either.

I think the problem lies with the fact that Jewish-run banks and financial institutions/media outers and Israel are so central to the real problem that it by nature calls into question the Holocaust.

I agree, though I think it's just meant to make this sub look anti-semetic in general, so probably perpetrated by pro-zionist elements. Frankly there are too many current issues to be focused on, so this whole topic just seems like someone lobbing firebombs into our attempts (as a sub) to talk about these issues. Plus, it might attract actual nazi-types like flies to shit, just happy to see the anti-semetism. We don't need either thing here (pro-zionist obfuscation/manipulation and idiot nazi hate)... Either or, both distract us from far more pressing concerns. I always downvote that crap at first sight.

Arabs are semetic too, you mean anti-Jewish.

though I think it's just meant to make this sub look anti-semetic in general

Not hard to make peolpe look anti semetic. You'll get called one just for questioning the whole Israel/Palenstine thing

I believe there is a group of nazis trying to subvert this sub

Trying? What are you talking about? The mods are nazis and they completely control this place, have for a long time. The only real question is why these threads are starting to pop up now, and not get taken down. They used to have far more control over this place. If anything things are starting to get better, because people like you are not getting immediately shadow banned as has happened in the past.

Fuckin' Amen. The Stormfront infiltration of every conspiracy-theory and political discussion forum they can get their grubby hands on needs to be called out before it gets any worse.

Ssshhsssss

Conspiracy or not, intentional or not, as with OP's post it's a bloody distraction.

I think this sub for critical-thinking is being dominated by shills promoting antisemitism to turn us all off...

they start with softer ideas to digest, like, "oh the holocaust happened. It's just the numbers are inflated."

Never said that.

Why not debate on an actual holohoax thread posted today:

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2sp974/40_tons_of_cokeday_would_have_been_needed_to/

Instead of venting here?

this thread is for the community to talk about the influx at large. not just one denial. And I ask you all to do the same, keep it one thread instead of posting several over the same topic. We get it, you think the holocaust never happened. there were no gas chambers. Hitler loved the Jews. He gave them all hugs and candy.

Notice how this guy doesn't suggest going to /r/holocaust - because it's a den of holocaust-denying Nazis who took it over.

Check out the moderator list there. What a bunch of pleasant subreddits that bunch runs!

The "Jews control the world" meme is very obviously disinformation, a distraction tactic used by the powers that be, the financial oligarchy, which consists of people of all religions, but mostly, they don't buy religion at all; they just use it as a tool to control people. All the Abrahamic religions are idiotic and disempowering control mechanisms. Jews for whatever reason have a history of being particularly savvy as survivalists and intelligent, and they're probably slightly overly represented in many arenas, both good and bad. There are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, sure, but there are also tons of Jews in the marijuana legalization movement and in a lotof social justice movements historically.

The Holocaust certainly happened and many millions were killed, though I don't know exactly ow many. The biggest "conspiracy" of WWII is that elements of the U.S. financial elite funded the Nazis and helped them rise to power. The Nazis were primarily the party of big business, not in any way "socialist." Check out "Trading With the Enemy" or the brilliant book "Unholy Alliance" by Peter Levenda.

There are a lot of Jews in Hollywood, sure, but there are also tons of Jews in the marijuana legalization movement and in a lotof social justice movements historically.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

In fact, if you were arguing with a "Jews control the world" type person they tie-in together. I.e. "Jews control Hollywood to push degeneracy, Jews push marijuana to promote degeneracy, Jews like social justice movement to push divide and conquer".

Damn people can be fucked up. my entire grandmothers family was killed at dachau. But yeah don't feed the hatred is the best advice.

You realize Dachau wasn't an extermination camp? Those claims were dropped in the 60's...

No sir, I was not aware of that, going to double check it with my dad. I thought it was dachau, my bad.

If you are predictable, you are defeatable. This sub is defeatable because the mods can't ban obvious shills, even when the actions of the shills are right out of the 'Gentlemans Guide". If there is a conspiracy within the ranks of the mods, it is to not ban. The problem needs to be resolved by the creator of this sub by changing the ban rules, and not caring about the 'free speech' being taken advantage of to destroy this sub from within. Freedom isn't free. Spill the blood of the shills or this sub will die.

You are never going to be able to gain mainstream respect for this subreddit -

It's not about RESPECT it's about credibility, people can ignore and pretend, but when something really happens they look to places like /r/conspiracy for information on it - whether you know it or not, that's what the rest of reddit does here. If it's full of "anti-jew hate the jew evil jew jew jew holocaust was good jew jew jew", it's makes people dismiss everything else here and everything else anyone who isn't parroting the latest propaganda has to say.

without considering the conditions for the war, i.e. causes, motives, players, etc

I agree. And it would behoove us to have open discussions about that as well. There are (at least) two sides to every story. Unfortunately, most of the time we only get to hear one side. That's what I like about this subreddit in particular and the internet in general, we can discuss just about anything and hear all sides.

Thsts what i meant, i hope i cleared thst up a little (without demeaning your points, as i found myself agreeing.)

I wasn't trying to disagree with anything you said either. Just expanding on that one point.

I completely agree that we must strive to keep a record and reminders of history, but the reality is that the only way we will discover the truth about history is to start talking about right NOW. If there ARE hidden truths about the Holocaust, JFK, Watergate, etc. they will forever remain hidden if we don't dismantle the power structure that is still in place to this day.

If you want the evidence TTrns is asking me for, click on his reddit username and look back through the threads he has posted in the past(I wouldn't doubt that he will go and delete them now for the purposes of this little meta-conspiracy thread, though). Go to the websites his links are posted from.

Look through the threads and see the multiple < days/weeks/months old reddit accounts giving him fake support, all written in the same petty tone that TTrns makes his posts in. Don't pretend, TTrns.

Well, I'm sorry to be mean, but you really don't know what you're talking about. Not even a high-school level of misunderstanding. Care to comment about Feder, or Germany's financial and trade policies? How about conditions for workers in Germany? Etc.

No...

Start here.

i'd agree, except i'm certain i know my american history over all better than my israeli. like exact numbers or dates, no my brain doesn't seem to enjoy locking things down like that, but moments in history? It's such an amazing story (and sometimes so obviously a fairy tale) that I soaked all that up like a sponge. From Roanoak to the Moon Play, i mean, landing, i'm pretty familar with us history. on the other hand, i know some early israeli history from the old testiment, but not so much i would concider myself well versed, and the only things i really know about israeli are the wars she fights and that time at the olympics.

thus to focus on one group of people who died in a massive war tends to lead to suspicions of ill intent.

It is pretty obvious that ill intent was there;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference

Stop manufacturing outrage to try and gain control of this sub

He told it like it was and was downvoted for it or it was brigaded by the assholes off subredditdrama. He certainly could have worded that better but in this case the community was wrong about what was occurring. They were being fed bullshit from people off /r/subredditdrama and were believing it. He tried setting the record strait. There's not anymore to be said about. At this point I'm starting to suspect you're just a troll too.