As long as you give them access to edit the scripts of war movies, the Film Liaison Office at the Pentagon will be happy to provide tanks, planes, etc for your badass, now completely pro-American war movies. The CIA also has heavy involvement in war movies.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2008/nov/14/thriller-ridley-scott

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/17/act-of-valor-military-hollywood_n_1284338.html

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/may/07/zero-dark-thirty-cia-memo

Edit: Zero Dark Thirty and Top Gun are specifically mentioned in the articles I cited.

They mention this in the movie "This Film Is Not Yet (R)ated". They state how any film depicting the US military is overseen by Reps from the Pentagon and CIA to ensure its not defaming the military image.

What if a film is defaming that image? Is it punishable?

If it's not in the pre-set conditions of what a war movie needs to be, it doesn't get Military Liaison approval, which means you don't get to use the military's sweet toys. This happened to the film The Green Zone, and it didn't fare well at the box office*. Another film it happened to iirc was Apocalypse Now, and Coppola had to go to the Philippines and use Philippine helicopters and such.

Edit: Wrong word

When Marvel Studios was unable to say exactly where SHIELD fit into to the military they weren't provided with assistance from the Liaison Office for The Avengers either.

That's comically stupid. Well, whatever, everything was CG in that anyways.

Maybe the armed forces need to get some serious computing power and some CGI programmers so that they have new "sweet toys" to leverage influence on the scripts of modern CGI-only movies?

You joke now...

I think it's more of a we won't work with you sort of thing, rather than being punishable.

Remember Clint Eastwoods movie Letters from iwo jima? Was nearly a shitstorm cause it showed perspective!

Zero Dark Thirty - an entire movie dedicated to the idea that torture is totally OK.

I remember someone on reddit trying to justify torture because they saw it in Zero Dark Thirty which is obviously 200% a real story, shaped by the CIA of course.

I don't doubt it. That movie was hugely successful for being as obvious as it was.

http://gawker.com/declassified-memo-shows-how-cia-shaped-zero-dark-thirty-493174407

I always thought the movie portrayed torture negatively. They never gain any useful intel from it, and what they showed on screen made it seem pretty barbaric.

Armchair generals of reddit don't have the stomach for war.

It's not just war films;

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tv-executives-admit-taped-interviews-193116

And it's long been speculated that prolific authors have their books mostly written by the CIA.

Can you tell me more about these speculations?

That article seems to have nothing to do with what we're talking about or the CIA, it just says that the creative side of Hollywood has a liberal bias - no shit, pretty much every creative industry (music, art, etc..) has a liberal bias, as artists, musicians and many writers tend to be liberals.

The bit about authors having books written by the CIA is interesting though, any sources? I'm assuming you're talking about authors such as Tom Clancy, that have a military bent? (The CIA tends to swing to the Right with a heavy pro-military stance.)

Tom clancy in particular is usually dealing with national security stuff, when his books are released, more along the lines of: how did you know this? Tell us your source

Oh yeah, there's no doubt Clancy had CIA connections, I mean the press even openly hinted about/reported it:

Langley was equally helpful to the novelist Tom Clancy, who was invited to CIA headquarters after the publication of The Hunt for Red October, an invitation that was regularly repeated. Consequently, when Clancy's The Sum of All Fears was filmed in 2002, the agency was happy to bring its makers to Langley for a personal tour of headquarters, and to offer access to agency analysts for star Ben Affleck.

http://www.theguardian.com/film/2008/nov/14/thriller-ridley-scott

Doesn't necessarily mean the CIA actively wrote his stuff, though they're basically admitting they consulted on details. I'm curious what other authors he's also referring to.

Clancy´s writings are extremely right wing. I stopped reading his books after reading how the m-16 was a superior rifle to the ak-47 during the vietnam war and how chinese doctors would inject formaldehyde to the top of babies heads as they were beginning to crown to kill them. It was just too much and it was all bullshit.

i remember reading (i think) the title was the bear and the dragon? 1400 page paperback with a flag on the cover

reading about tank movements and capabilities, formations, attack patterns, etc.. in iran published back in the mid 80s, he had a serious in depth knowledge

I think the movie 'this film is not yet rated'(?) went over this pretty well.

a fantastic documentary available on youtube for free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8N3EztyOoA&list=PL2F327072B017663A

I had seen a bit of this then forgot about it, cheers

Will check this out..

I can forgive them for Top Gun.

Wonder what the threshold is that counts as making a "movie"?

you give them access to edit the scripts of war movies, the Film Liaison Office at the Pentagon will be happy to provide tanks, planes, etc

I've got a feeling Micheal Bay just drops off a few blank pages and lets the FLO take it from there.

Well they can't just lend resources to a movie without knowing the content. It's entirely irrational to expect them to do that.

Well they can't just lend resources to a movie without knowing the content. It's entirely irrational to expect them to do that.

Knowing the content isn't the same as editing the content.

Seems pretty inappropriate to loan all these expensive resources to some film studios and not others basednon whether they agree with your position.

Why? Isn't that what everyone does with their money/resources?

Hopefully not with publiic funds.

Really? Would you donate millions of dollars of your personal funds to someone who was going to make a movie about what an asshole you are?

When you're talking about public funds, you really can't play favorites towards someone telling a lie in your favor.

Oh, and why not?

Not to mention that while they may be public funds...they are generally to be used for the public, not by the public.

Saying that the DoD shouldn't be allowed to decide where its funds are allocated is just silly. If you believe that, then you probably have a much larger issue with the idea of government in general.

Are you seriois? So if the Dod decides they need hookers and blow then you think that's ok?

How did you get that from what I said?

Saying that the DoD shouldn't be allowed to decide where its funds are allocated is just silly.

Are you actually retarded or are you just trolling?

You seem to actually believe that the government should decide how it spends its money.

you probably have a much larger issue with the idea of government in general.

Umm.. I.. Didn't say that.. You just quoted yourself?

Yeah no shit.

Dont get me started on shows like CSI and Law and Order. Brainwashing at its finest.

'24' go torture! Works every time according to that show

Torture doesn't work every time in 24. They never get information while Jack or another agent is being imprisoned. And Jack doesn't always get answers when he is interrogating a suspect.

So 24 is actually more realistic than Zero Dark Thirty.

That show was using torture before we even knew about it.

I liked 24 and I'm against torture. It's as if one is fictional and the other isn't. It's almost like I have the ability to think.

Yup we probably all feel the same way. But you may be missing the whole point of the thread.

So are shows such as Grey's Anatomy. Not once do they talk about how that simple surgery cost 50 grand. You know very well that the cost of these operations they perform is a huge topic yet they gloss over it like it never happens.

If the show was realistic they would be talking about the cost of things pretty much every episode.

Nope, not even a side topic.

I doubt its a big topic to the surgeons performing the surgery.

Just to the middlemen.

They have plenty of scenes where they talk to the people who need treatment. Not once do they mention the elephant in the room.

"Oh how much will that cost though? Can we even afford that honey?"

It never happens.

Sometimes there's "the insurance wont cover it" or "how can we do this pro bono?"

I think they had an episode about Obamacare, or at least it was mentioned.

However, I don't think they've ever said an exact number.

(yay! My guilty pleasure came into use! Sorta.)

Why do you feel guilty about getting off on Obamacare?

That actually has happened a couple times. I hate that I know this but their favourite bartender dude had a brain tumour he couldn't afford so he wanted to be discharged. They tried to fundraise for him and then got him into a medical trial

Then there was a girl who had had like a dozen spinal surgeries but still walked hunched over. They offered her an experimental spinal surgery but insurance wouldn't cover the experimental part. One of the doctors anonymously donated a shitload of money she'd inherited.

I work closely with medical device salesmen and I can tell you that the price of the surgery and monetary aspect of most any surgical procedure is discussed with the surgeons because the cost of the materials and extra staff can vary between locations and personnel available and the surgeon is always very interested because it effects the amount he is compensated

monetary aspect of most any surgical procedure is discussed with the surgeons

Prior to each surgery, with the patient? Cuz that would then be a major flaw in Grey's Anatomy.

I wouldn't doubt thats important in a big picture sense, but nothing I've ever seen or heard would lead me to believe that surgeons are just like highly skilled waiters always looking out for the next expensive surgery.

it effects the amount he is compensated

How so? A quick googling would lead me to believe that most surgeons are paid a salary. Or is it a big picture thing like they consult w/ the surgeons to find out how much personnel/materials are required and that sort of stuff so estimates or whatever can be made? (serious question)

Yeah you're on the right track but obviously now a days everything regarding medicine and it's trained professionals pay is complicated and varies at different institutions. A salary is almost always a part of a surgeons contract but is also effected by the amount of surgeries performed and even the success rates of procedures.

A salary is almost always a part of a surgeons contract but is also effected by the amount of surgeries performed and even the success rates of procedures.

Yeah, but the price of each procedure though?

Not once do they talk about how that simple surgery cost 50 grand.

Except they do. Many times. For example: http://greysanatomy.wikia.com/wiki/Raindrops_Keep_Falling_On_My_Head

"Joe asks about the cost of the procedure. They tell him it's a couple hundred thousand dollars."

You guys just make shit up as you go, don't you?

You guys just make shit up as you go, don't you?

I am not making up the fact that out of all the episodes the topic is never discussed on normal terms. In America the cost of even the simplest procedure is often outrageous. In the shows they may discuss one or two interesting situations where brain surgery might break the bank and they maybe try to raise money in some way. They save the topic for outrageously expensive situations where the viewer wont see it as a systemic problem with the health care industry.

Its not indicative of the reality being that even the kid showing up with a bruised knee is potentially being hit for 5 grand in costs simply because he was brought in with an ambulance. They dont talk about that stuff.

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/130-moving-the-goal-posts

I heard this brought up in House, MD once.

The patient in his case had no insurance, and Cuddy shut down the round of tests he ordered for a non-obvious ailment, because she saw no reason to saddle them with $100k in testing for a speculative diagnosis.

Every single cop show is brainwashing the audience into both liking cops, and thinking that it is a good career path.

Also, lets look into our huge database of individuals just by searching the name and see every bit of info....just about da bad guyz tho

While I generally agree, there is always The Wire.

The Wire is the only cop show that's made me want to be a cop.

The Wire was so incredibly written, it made you sympathize with everyone - Cops, dealers, junkies, politicians, reporters, teachers, students, white, black, wealthy, poor, etc.

That's a rare and wonderful phenomenon that's only achieved by tapping into something vulnerable and real. The writers of that show did their homework and obviously made an enormous effort at authenticity in each walk of life depicted - You can feel the humanity in the characters.

There has never been television, before or since, that is anywhere near as good.

The Wire is as close to perfection as television gets. Period.

It's not a bad career for someone who does the job correctly.

Not so fast. Southland pretty much confirmed for me that I would never ever want to be a cop. You also don't love all the cops in that show, unless you're incredibly stupid.

I haven't seen the show, but if that's the same as the movie with The Rock then it might not be a cop show at all. At the very least not a traditional cop show where the cops are the good guys.

Every single cop show is brainwashing the audience into submission.

FTFY

I don't watch these shows. Would you mind expanding on how they are used for brainwashing?

Suspects are always bad guys, cops are always good guys. Everything is done by the book and to protect the victim. Rarely is anyone ever falsely accused by overzealous scumbag cops.

Things aren't done by the book. There are warrant less searches prisoner abuse etc, but since they're assumed guilty, its all ok.

Exactly. They trick the viewer by first showing the heinous action of the accused. So you want them to be caught at all costs. When you then see the cops break the rules you then justify it for them without them telling you explicitly you should.

This is on top of the fear being pounded into your brain that bad guys are everywhere. Then you are told they are so bad we should stop at nothing to get them, with subtle hints that they are restricted by the pesky Constitution.

Dick Wolf is big in the republican party, I suspect. That Fred Thompsen guy was a contender in the 2008 Republican primary (13 percent), after his run as a DA on Law and Order.

Yeah. When I was arrested, I was never mirandized and was abused by the police verbally, threatened, etc, for what ended up being a class B misdemeanor charge that was eventually dismissed.

Hey, at least you have that arrest record now to follow you the rest of your life! Not guilty? Too bad, still a criminal on background checks.

Yep. Not even Not Guilty, it was dismissed outright. But tell that to any prospective employers over the past 10 months. Nobody will even look at me. Worst of all, I'm a teacher.

That fucking pisses me off. You're actively being punished for a crime you didn't commit. Happens all the fucking time. Something like 40% of men 23 and under will be arrested. They have fucking quotas of lives to ruin.

Yep. It's a joke. And I was arrested for "harassment" after a girl I had dated and broken up with went to the police to complain that she was afraid for her life, despite the fact that I never threatened her, only called her a few times to make sure we were on okay terms after our breakup, and had no idea where she lived/worked. The cops treated me like a piece of shit the entire time I was in their custody and admonished me repeatedly for "mistreating" her. Bitch crazy.

I have family that are cops. I even have family that's a part of the gitmo torcher team. Cops are pieces of shit.

[deleted]

Oh snap. Yeah I was rather tipsy at that time and didn't care about spelling. I will call my nephew and tell him he just dreamed his deployment.

[deleted]

Well to be fair "torture team" was my words. But any "good" soldier would shoot his commanding officer before torturing people.

Morality > orders

Same here. I got my record expunged though since I didn't actually do the crime. That didn't stop them from hurting me anyway they could though.

Mine will be expunged in April, provided I'm not arrested again before then. I will always have an arrest record, though, so there goes public office of any sort, I imagine.

That's for the public to decide. Theoretical: would you rather have a mayor of your city who was a corrupt crooked yet outwardly squeaky clean a-hole, or a guy who genuinely and in your opinion has the best interests of the community in his heart and the ability to act on that in the office, yet was imprisoned in the past for a serious non-felony?

The great irony of our system is that for most higher state offices, most states have laws that disallow felons from running, but go read the Constitution...you can be a convicted serial killer and still run for and even be allowed under law to win the Presidency or Congress as long as you meet the age and residency requirements.

Almost makes one think the founding fathers had no intention of arrest records or crimes already left in the past keeping people from participating in their government, but that's just domestic terrorist talk ;)

Don't think we could be president, but as long as you're honest about your past to government jobs they might let you.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_US_senators_and_congressmen_are_convicted_felons

That really bothered me when watching NCIS. I liked the show, but the more I watched, the more crap I saw. It didn't matter how many laws the team broke, it was okay because the suspect was a bad guy and had to be stopped at all costs. Abuse the Patriot Act? Totally cool. Torture? Totally fine if Gibbs thought it was fine. I would have been fine with the main characters being morally ambiguous and/or hypocritical if attention had been drawn to that fact in order to create discussion about how heroes are not perfect. But no. Everything the team did was the right choice, and I had to stop watching.

Well, except that one time Gibbs went rogue and sniper murdered that guy in Mexico...but he totally deserved it, you're supposed to believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acPlxOvdxNM

"In a flashback in Hiatus Part 1 (episode), it was revealed that Gibbs after discovering a folder on Hernandez headed to Mexico. In his grief-stricken state and consumed by nothing but a strong, overwhelming desire for revenge against the man who had robbed him of his family, Gibbs killed Hernandez by shooting the other man through the windscreen of his truck with a single sniper shot, the impact of which killed Hernandez instantly and even caused blood to appear on the windscreen. Gibbs later returned to the U.S where he kept the crime concealed for twenty years."

That story doesn't even bother me. That was Gibbs, one of the show's agents, acting on his own accord. I think that is a reflection from the Western genre where the hero's vigilantism is accepted since it is the only way to achieve justice in that situation. It's different when the officials of the land are not bound by the laws of the land. Which is the message when we see on-duty officers of the law taking liberties with the law. That's what concerns me.

Not just that, a lot of the information it spreads is completely wrong to try to deter criminals. The shows act like detectives and cops are superheroes that can solve a murder off of a grainy license plate picture or testimony from a maid that she saw someone walk out of the room. They take murder and oversimplify it to the point that it makes it look like they have a sixth sense to find someone who has killed someone.

Right? The guilty person is always obviously guilty in the interrogation room.

Also the guilty person is always a sociopath that won't just break down. In reality a lot of murderers can't handle the pressure and when being interrogated will just confess for a plea bargain, but I guess in CSI world, every murder is committed by someone who is a psychopath and about to be the next Bundy.

To be fair, some of the characters on L&O have had their problems. CSI though

I used to watch a lot of Law and Order SVU and the characters all had their share of flaws and problems. I can remember a decent amount of episodes where they show people that were falsely imprisoned or police abuse, etc.

Even then though...main character Eliot Stabler regularly attacks people...in the interrogation rooms usually...nothing ever comes of it.

I thought he had a bunch of complaints on his record because of his aggressiveness... Or do you mean legal action against him? That seems realistic to me. I bet its pretty hard to get rid of an established cop (over 10 years I think) even with use of force issues.

He does have complaints...nothing ever comes of them either.

I would say portraying a cop with use of force complaints and who doesn't seem to mind getting more, along with no action being taken, is far from the "good guy cop" stereotype.

You've seen the show...are you saying that Stabler isn't portrayed as a good guy cop?

TV tropes is probably a better place than here to look for it, but there is a definite 'stereotype' of the bad/crooked good guy cop. If we wanted to get all brainwashy/conspiracy here, I don't think its unreasonable to think that the people making these shows know that their viewers know that not all cops are good, so blindly making every cop a perfect good guy wouldn't as much for police public image. They have to have a more nuanced trope to assure us that even the bad cops are good.

edit: I've been watching Dexter lately so I'll pull another example from there, but Quinn is an obvious crooked good guy cop there.

I would think that Benson is the "good guy" cop and Stabler is the "bad guy" cop. They usually use that routine in interrogations anyway but I think it fits with their character personalities as well.

But hes not a 'bad cop' or a 'bad guy', which is the point.

Hes a good cop who does bad things. Everything he does is still OK to the viewer.

Then I guess I'm not the average viewer. Even the way he treats victims is insensitive and borderline abusive. If I had something shitty happen to me and had a cop like him assigned to my case my only hope would be that he had a partner like Benson.

Then I guess I'm not the average viewer.

I duno, you kept watching didn't you? Or was his behavior the reason you stopped watching?

I watched in middle school. Quit for years and watched one episode to discover Stabler's gone. But even as a middle schooler I would have described Stabler as an effective cop in regards to his bottom line but not one I would ever want to deal with.

I feel like you're just backing me up here...

You recognize that he does bad things but you just can't bring yourself to think of him as a bad dude.

Maybe in some way I am. I think that he was out for himself and what he believed was justice even if it differed from what the police station wanted him to do or what the situation showed. Which doesn't seem to be that different from how actual cops are. I think there are probably more that will simply follow orders from higher ups, less that just go off of their experience, and even fewer that are actually trying to get justice for the victims, which I think are truly good cops.

Well that notion, that sort of uncomfortable hesitance to call someone like Stabler or Quinn a bad person, is what people mean (I think) when they talk about TV brainwashing people into thinking all cops are good.

Dont get me started on shows like CSI and Law and Order. Brainwashing at its finest.

(thread OP)

I don't watch any of the other Law and Orders or CSI so I can't speak for them but I think SVU shows that all cops are deeper than the stuff that you see on the streets. There have been episodes that show dirty cops and Chester Lake, one of Ice-T's past partners, ended up going to prison for killing another cop. There have been appearances of actors playing cops that were very obviously bad, inadequate, or dirty cops.

Because it's a TV show. The plot has to fit within a nice 15 minute window to allow for commercial breaks. It's a cookie-cutter show where every episode falls under the same story arc.

But to your point about nobody being falsely accused? They are in almost every episode. Have to watched any of these shows? Their favorite trope is to accuse the most obvious suspect, only for it to be the "last person you'd suspect".

22 minutes. Sorry for being pedantic.

It's only 20 if you subtract the "Dunh-Dunh"s.

40, it's an hour show

Seriously. Hes seen enough to know the signature sound but still thinks an episode is 30 mins?

I used to a lot, but I haven't in a while.

And don't forget if the victim ever takes the law in to there own hands many innocent bystanders will die.

This is why I like The Killing on Netflix. The main detectives fuck up a lot, and people get really mad at them, and their personal and work lives are basically fucking garbage because they are cops and the show isn't afraid to say that. It's also not afraid to show that the force is inherently corrupt and bankrolled by the mafia and politicians. I'm finding it to be a surprisingly good show.

The Danish original or the remake?

There are cop shows where the cops aren't always the good guy. The shield on Netflix for example.

Is this even true?

What's even true? That show is about corrupt cops. Its quite good. Obviously in getting downvoted in this sub

Some downvotes yes, but mine was a real question.

NCIS always has the authorities using insane surveillance overreach and questionable, if not downright unconstitutional, investigation tactics.

NCIS is the most laughably unrealistic show I have ever seen, with all the guys cracking absolutely ridiculous macho jokes on how awesome they are and such. I couldn't sit through an episode, just can't take it seriously, especially with two people fighting a hacking incursion on ONE LAPTOP!

Because four hands type faster than two, I guess.

It's one of the most watched and highest rated shows, it's not made for the skeptics who are the minority.

Luckily quality is not determined democratically. Twilight is also popular, it's still crap.

Gibbs doesn't give a fuck. He and his pal Mr. Jack Bauer will have the President take it deep where the sun never shines.

This is why the FCC is so completely gutless about enforcing broadband competition. Can't really control the content people are seeing when they aren't watchong the major networks.

I think I read somewhere that ncis is funded by Lockheed Martin, but I can't be sure. I do find it amusing seeing a limp wristed joke of a man playing tough guy, cracks me up

In like every episode of every cop show there is always a dork saying

We can't go in there we don't have a warrant

and a cool, bad ass cop saying

We ain't got no time for a warrant

There is a VERY strong message that the law doesn't and shouldn't apply to cops because they are smarter than everyone else. Doing ANYTHING to get their guy is the right thing to do. There's also a really bad exaggeration of what technologies cops have at their disposal. It is quite literally science fiction sold as fact. It's disgusting.

They taint juries with pseudo science forensic bs so that any "expert" can take the stand with minimal evidence and win a case.

At least on L&O early on when the cops would fail to warrant a search or otherwise fuck up you'd see evidence get tossed from the court cases.

Hey! You leave SVU outta this mister!!

Honestly, it's not even war movies. Look at the transformers movies, that Julian Assange movie. Who helped provide heavy funding for them? The DoD. Michael Bay is huuuuuugely funded by the DoD.

Why I have not seen a single one of his movies since the Island.

I was about to say Spielberg's Lincoln movie.

Right at the beginning, you have a black man fawning over Lincoln... couldn't watch the rest of the movie after that middle finger to history.

Oh god Lincoln.

Over and over and over they say "THIS WAR IS ABOUT ONLY SLAVES" and theres like 1 30second segment where Lincoln says its actually about a whole bunch of other stuff but he'll never be able to sell it unless ITS ONLY ABOUT THE SLAVES.

And then he goes back to towing the party line.

I am unfamiliar with your beef, but I've seen the movie. What 'other things' do you mean?

Ugh, its not my beef and I'm not prepared to properly explain it.

But I (used to) know more people than I suspect is normal who were very souther pride etc etc. They hated Lincoln with a fiery passion and would go on at length about him.

Unfair taxation of southern goods was a big one, supposedly, and displeasure with the level of autonomy allowed in the supposed 'union' of individual states - decisions (not about slavery) being made at a national level where southern states would have preferred their own way.

I think the bit in the movie he talks about though was how, while they technically had the legal right to secede from the union, he couldn't order the armies against them if he recognized their sovereignty as it would require the approval of congress, which he would never get because half of fuckin congress was trying to leave the party anyway. So he ignores their legal right to secede, declares war illegally, and orders the military to secure the south.

My beef though, is how "ITS ALL ABOUT FREEING THE SLAVES" is hammered throughout the movie, when in reality, Lincoln only freed the slaves in the south. I doubt even that would have happened if the war had gone better. We were a country with a long tradition of slavery and we didn't just develop a conscience overnight.

Well, it's hard to see how Lincoln might not have been hung for a war criminal, had he lost. But he didn't, winner and history books, etc.

Also Lincoln made the war about slavery as a war move, not even because he cared about the issue so much. The British wanted to help the South but had just freed their slaves, by making the war "about slavery" the british couldn't help and the norths superiority at sea remained unmatched.

Can you elaborate a little bit more? I don't remember the scene, but I really like history and am curious.

I can't, because I haven't seen it... and I won't unless I hear from someone that they were historically accurate and portray Lincoln as a bigoted shitbag.

These movies sell us on the idea/acceptance of endless war with an eternal enemy.

When you don't know who the enemy is, it is you.

I don't know if that's true, but it sounded smart.

Just curious if you have a citation about the Michael Bay claim? I know that the DoD has a role in the film making but I was under the impression that it was more like providing liasons, consultants, and screening the works of ex-operatives.

How does the DoD benefit from funding Transformer movies?

Do you actually have any proof of this DoD funding?

If you're just going to say "look it up yourself" don't bother replying.

Yeah Will, I mean it's not like /u/TheRehabKid is going to try to stain your reply with shit like he does every other time he posts anything to anyone in this sub or anything.

EDIT - one link in first 15 seconds of a google search

Read it. Looks like the DoD charges the production firms for filming

"no expense is ever incurred by the government or taxpayers. Servicemembers who serve as extras are on leave and are paid by the production company, as are crews who fly the aircraft."

If there evidence to back up claims, then there's nothing to stain on his part.

You don't like me because I'm not a sheep in your flock. I say things you don't agree with and the majority of you reply with raging insults and personal attacks. I will an idea, but I try my best refrain from insulting the person (unless they start it).

So bugger off.

The top post in this thread has sources

It's written at the end of the movies in the credits.

I'll see if I can find an image or some such.

edit Couldn't find any images or anything, but I found some articles. Literally takes 2 seconds to search. Just type in Michael Bay funded by DoD.

This article was written by the DoD themselves. http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46352

http://www.sodahead.com/entertainment/pentagon-hollywood-pair-up-for-transformers-sequel/blog-35254/

Awesome, thanks!

That second link says that Michael Bay (or whoever) paid 25k/hour to the DoD for the use of F22s alone ...sooooo...thats literally the opposite of funding. Michael Bay is funding the DoD.

The first link doesn't support the claim that the DoD funds Michael Bay either. Maybe you shoulda taken more than 2 seconds to search.

I don't think anyone would or could deny that the DoD supports and works with Hollywood directors to make pro-military movies...but actively funding them? Not so sure.

As a Brit, yes, it's quite painfully obvious to us that the US has used cinema to its political advantage ever since the 1930s, the common adage is 'the US won every war' or 'the US saved us from the ____' (insert Koreans, Vietnamese, Germans, Japanese, Muslims etc here)

TV shows like homefront and films like Zero Dark Thirty are terrifyingly potent with propaganda, but the US public have been trained to lap it up, and circle jerk their way through the box office.

Ya but also James Bond

Shut up, that's a documentary.

True, but as an American, I don't believe the U.S. has won a single war since WWII. Every conflict since then has been a stalemate, a quagmire, or a failure. What pisses me off is that there hasn't been a decade since WWII that we have not been in some sort of war. It is ridiculous.

well ya got use the military industrial machine for some thing, other wise half the country would be out of a job

This. I recently watched a doc called "The Money Masters". It on YouTube, from ninties (would link but I'm on mobile). One chapter of the doc talks about how our whole economy is based on war; its a war economy. The narrator speculates that we don't know how/couldn't run our economy without war. I feel like there has to be another way but that is a difficult transition (whatever it may be).

or a failure

Unless you measure success by advancing your global business interests while simultaneously depopulating and weakening US men.

What about Grenada ?

The wars the US has fought since WWII are pretty different from WWII.

If the US wanted they could blowup most of the world quite easily with zero casualties.

I highly doubt the US could blow up most of the world with zero casualties.

Same with every cop show.

All of them but The Wire. That one exposes all the filth from every layer of power in society.

I mean it still makes cops relatable... but it also makes junkies, dope dealers, politicians, and a gay, farmer-in-the-dell-whistling, heavily-armed stick-up artist relatable.

What a great fucking show.

no, you're not, more people are starting to see the truth of mind programmed violence.

Sadly, few are brave enough to speak about it.

That must be it. People don't vocally support your views, so they must be afraid to cry brainwashing.

You come off butt hurt. You mad, bro?

I disagree. On the internet, I guess that makes me butthurt.

No tone in text. The sarcasm behind "that must be in" makes me think "You mad, bro?"

But in all fairness you're still correct.

Trouble is there's always a new generation of kids who are not aware of this.

that's true, dumbing down has become a lot easier

No it hasn't silly goose, btw did u get my snapchat? Lolol.

Just watched american sniper and thought damn i knew he was "the deadliest sniper" but how horribly tragic the ending was. Turns out it was probably a pissoed ptsd vet who was sick of chris kyles out right blatant lies

I also thought that more people are starting to see the truth, but I guess I just surround myself with like-minded people.

I wonder if generally this is true or if it's just the people on the internet and/or Reddit?

I still can't get over the fact that Michelle Obama presented the Oscar for best picture of 2013 to Ben Affleck for Argo.

youre telling me! that actually made me angry. you would think they wouldnt want that just for appearance's sake. but no. i wonder if aaron schwartz's family thinks it was as cool as everyone else did.

He won a fucking Oscar for that piece of shit?

It's not just war movies. Many major Hollywood flicks incorporate some sort of subtle propaganda. Only a few film makers exist anymore who don't pander to some sort of external entity to incorporate some of this.

Anybody care to list a few? For science.

The people who privately funded and put Cloud Atlas together were definitely not pushing state propaganda...

Unfortunately the movie didn't make any return because it wasn't supported by Hollywood.

I personally loved Cloud Atlas, and I thought it was an astoundingly good film. But as you said, it didn't do well commercially.

I remember a scene from dark knight relating to mass surveillance and it being a necessary evil.

He does destroy it in the end but still..

That wouldn't seem like subtle programming though, but rather incorporating a controversial element into the plot that is relevant to the time.

It's okay that he does it because he's trying to catch a really bad guy!

Umm in the movie it's clearly shown as a bad thing to do. The citizens of gothem (including the guys on the jail barge) save the day by being good people, no need for batman. Its in the movie to show how obsessed and crazy batman is going to stop his opposite. It is not portrayed positivly at all.

I thought the point of that was to show Batman as a fascist, and to make you think about what his methods represent. Just a little statement in an awesome action movie.

Yeah the moral charactors hate the idea of what batman does and its more to show how obsessed Batman has become in pursuit of "justice". The point is that there is no justice and that normal, good people save the day (on the bomb boats) without batmans help. He learns he's become the bad guy he was trying to stop

No offense, I don't meant to presume anything, but how much do you really know about the creative process, in any field? Lots of things are literally done for no other reason than to move from point A in the plot to point B, to build tension making the resolution more effective, or hell, because it's 'cool'. Not to mention that mass surveillance is a relevant issue to paint some drama around.

I have no reason to question why a government might have a stake in mainstream movies as far as being propaganda, but once you go through the looking glass, literally any plot point, scenario or character that happens to endorse or line up with a government's views is going to be 'propaganda', even when those characters are villains.

But Batman is a vigilante. He doesn't kill, but he does 'what's necessary'. Of course that's going to line up the interests of a government. It doesn't make the character or a Batman movie anything other than a typical vigilante fantasy.

Check out Drones

urgh, the dialogs .... like they were copied from some commercial. so obvious it's quite funny.

A lot of marketing. Yes.

The real reason these movies come out though, when they are "based on real events", is to get you to believe the official narrative.

That is the purpose of every WWII movie.

"Poor Jews! Poor Jews" rolls eyes

My favorite WWII films are Great Escape and Bridge on the River Kwai. Both of them are terrific films and I don't think you can argue that they are particularly propagandic.

Great Escape

I am sure both movies promote the official story in one way or another.

Namely: "Germans were evil. They tried to kill all the Jews. Hitler committed suicide. USA! USA! (or some ally analogue)"

I have yet to hear about an honest war movie, so I doubt these two are any different, despite how terrific they are.

Bridge on the river Kwai doesn't involve germans, however it does mark the british as amazing and japanse as evil so...

Of course.

The allies get to write the history books.

I feel like the germans had a reputation for keeping records, too..

And yet no records of the "6 Million". Bizarre.

Shalom!

Well they did destroy as many as they could before they got busted, once they realised they had fucked and lost the war horribly. Still, plenty of evidence remained that justified the whole scale murder of millions of Jews. Most estimates are between 5-7 but it's not an easy thing to pin down. They didn't give them all individual graves, you iknow.

Interestingly, Eisenhower even took lots of pictures and documented as much as he could because he predicted that future nazis would try to white-wash germany's war crimes, which they admitted in the nuremberg trials they had tried to cover up.

Despite this, you still believe nazi propaganda that eisenhower even predicted being spun. You're a puppet for a long-dead government, it's a really weird choice in life that must be at least partially based in hatred of minorities or more specificlaly jews.

Obvious JIDF prepared lies are obvious

jidf prepared? or literally the word of the majority of historians when discussing the subject?

Isn't a bit weird that if somebody DOESN'T deny the holocaust or support hitler then they must be working for the Jews? I feel like that says a lot about the critical thinking skills of people who spend all day and night rambling fervourously about how jews are evil and the holocaust wasn't that bad.

I'm sorry, no. There are actually more than two kinds of people than holocaust deniers and JIDF.

Anyone who points out the evidence that "6 Million" is an impossible number, is a "holocaust denier", "nazi" and "anti-semite". Straight out of the JIDF handbook.

okay, so yeah, anybody who doesn't support anti-semitism is a shill. got it

wait so just to be clear, you want a WWII film that supports hitler and pushes holocaust denial or something?

maybe one that shows the cold and calculating choice to drop the bombs on Japan, with no flag waving justifications? If the Japanese had dropped such a bomb somewhere and still lost, what would have happened to the perpentators of such an atrocity?

have you watched th TV show manhattan much? it's pretty good.

If the Japanese had dropped such a bomb somewhere and still lost, what would have happened to the perpentators of such an atrocity?

I dunno, probably something pretty similar the holocaust fallout I would think.

45% of this subreddit wants that

16 days ago

Yeah and I can freely call you all idiots without having to worry about backlash!

I don't know who you think you're talking to, but I'm not pro-hitler

Not you, but.. you know. Idiots. You know they're around. They're everywhere. You gotta be careful though, cause a lot of idiots will shut logic down real fast.

:/ okay man, good luck with that

JIDF detected

Is that a yes? I just mean you said the word "official story" like we're talking about 9/11 ors omething. The "official story" is literally the word of all qualified historians from the time period.

You lie pretty consistently

i'm not sure how a youtube video would prove that I'm "lying" so I'm not going to bother watching it. Do you have an actual response?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpwR_rnhetw

okay, so no. Take it easy.

Right. Because in the case of the Great Escape the Germans were the bad guys. As in people were directly trying to escape from them. Escape from Your Nice Neighbours Who Feed You Well and Give You Massages isn't a great premise for a movie.

I mean, i'm sure darth vader liked poetry and maybe a soft-spot for Ewoks but he's stil The Bad Guy in the story.

The Bad Guy in the story

Right. Because that's a story. A work of fiction.

WWII was not a work of fiction. Do you see the difference?

It is because you watch all the fiction that you believe Germany were the bad guys.

ProTip: Get your history from someone other than the Jews.

WWII was not a work of fiction. Do you see the difference?

Yes, i see a big difference between a movie and a real event. I think everybody does.

And like... It's not as 50 of the attempted escapees were later shot by their Good Guy Captors.

It is because you watch all the fiction that you believe Germany were the bad guys. ProTip: Get your history from someone other than the Jews.

Good response. I'd be happy to suggest a dozen or so books that weren't written by shills like david irving or ernst zundel.

I thought the movie made good points for the difference between the idealogical Nazis who had co-opted the goverment and the professional soldiers they were replacing. I mean, have any of you watched the motherfucker?

shill detected! Throw him in ze cooler!

muh holocaust

I am sure both movies

You can't be sure until you watch it. Bridge takes place in SE Asia, and the American lead is presented as a complete degenerate. I think Guinness was knighted primarily for his amazing performance in this film.

My grandfather was a navigator with a B-24 crew during WWII. He served in the China, Burma, and India theater of operations. He bombed many bridges over the River Kwai. I remember one time he told me something along the lines of "I bombed a bunch of bridges on the River Kwai and not once did I see American POW's getting along with the Jap's!" which was his way of kindly saying the movie Bridge on the River Kwai was a bunch of horse shit.

getting along

The Japs enslaved the British & American soldiers, and were letting them die of malaria. In the movie. Plus spoiler alert but they blow up the bridge in the movie too. I guess I don't get what your objection is...

What I was trying to say is that the conditions POW's faced while building the Burma Railway were way worse in reality vs. how they were portrayed in the film. My grandfather saw first hand how American POW's were treated by the Japs and didn't think the film was as realistic as it could have been, which is relevant to OP's posting.

I will watch it again, but my memory of it(while this was implied because you couldn't be as graphic with your violence back then) was that the Japs were clearly ignoring the Geneva convention(Guinness' character calls the commondant out on this), that the prisoners were being worked to death, denied medical attention, shot/put in the hole for slight infractions, starved and improperly clothed...should it have done something else specifically?

Tbh there have been some very good WWII movies.

Put out my a major studio? Run by a bunch of jews? Advertised in the jewish media?

Seems unlikely to me.

Being a "very good movie", doesn't mean that it isn't a propaganda piece. No one is being told the truth about WWII in any movie. Not the whole truth anyway. But then again, that's how limited hangout work.

And conveniently serving as propaganda doesn't negate the value of a film. Jesus Christ, is there nothing safe to be enjoyed as entertainment without the purveying sense that literally everything is designed to keep you ignorant or enslaved? It's a film, and every country tells 'their story' through their media. Can we not just appreciate a film for being a good film, and try to think critically?

If you don't want to enjoy it, don't enjoy it, but questioning everything is great right up until the point you're unable to accept anything.

entertainment

This is the attitude that has brought about the current state of the media.

This is why the news is no longer news.

This is how they were able to turn all the media into weapons of propaganda. All to keep us ignorant. All to keep us under control.

But because it entertained YOU, despite not having anything of substance to offer society, it is now passed around so all the idiot sheep watch it and believe it has something to do with reality. Now everyone believes the bullshit.

Watch Network (1976).

My god dude, if you think you're the arbiter of how substantive something is and what it 'offers' to society, I think I see the problem. Art can serve an infinite amount of ends to an infinite amount of people, but you have such a puerile, useless attitude towards it that I can frankly do nothing with. Whether or not I (I like how you bolded it, to emphasize that I'm particularly part of the problem) am entertained has nothing to do with it.

Lots of people do not think critically about what they consume, and that's a problem. But you're not interested in dealing with people, just thoughtless, worthless sheep. By all means, purposefully avoid things under the premise of being above influence or a 'critical thinker, buy into your own bullshit if you feel you have something substantive to offer society. I love the attitude from people who benefit from the same system as me acting like they woke up to the whole thing.

When people start criticizing the fact that a dramatization presents an exaggerated or fabricated representation of reality, no shit.

Come again?

You were going on about the values of propaganda in society and how you're totally not a part of the problem?

You lost me with your incoherent rambling.

Maybe you should try some "art" that isn't produced by zionists?

Okay. I kind of forgot that the only two colours worth painting with are 'black' and 'white'. By all means, your attitude will never allow any room for disagreement, so I guess this has ultimately been futile for both of us. Absolutely no conversation to be had with someone who puts art in quotations, or for that matter, any tired asshole still using the word 'sheep'. Imagine building up your entire viewpoint and perception and making it out to be an 'us vs them' mentality. Why, you could never be wrong and literally everyone else is the problem.

everyone else is the problem

But not you. You have something to contribute to society. Clearly.

Nah, not really. I contribute to my family, my friends, and to the best of my ability try to treat people I come across in my day to day to life with consideration and dignity. I pay my income taxes. I write and play music, but that's ultimately or myself. What the fuck else do I need to 'contribute' to society, and why would your standards on that matter?

I wouldn't make that argument to begin with unless you had brought it up, because it's a meaningless, sweeping statement that could mean anything to anyone for any reason. I'm not the one writing something off because I feel it 'adds nothing to society'. Sick people add 'nothing' to society, do they?

I pay my income taxes

I stopped reading here.

Way to "contribute", if that's what you're calling it.

Knew you'd say that as I typed it, so I left it in. Kind of funny how predictable that response was. I had no idea I was speaking to someone helping to sow the seeds of political discourse, however, so in this pissing contest, you clearly add more to society than me. You win, although you didn't answer my question about what you feel I should contribute to 'society'. Which society do I need to contribute to, the one consisting of sheep or the one you consider ideal?

I guess I should do my part and wait for the audit to come, but then again, you've probably already assumed where I live, who I am, and how I live my life, so I should just check out now, seeing as how I'll never contribute to society like yourself. Every one of your posts is a treasure and a gift sir, don't let anyone tell you any different.

BTFO

Oh, absolutely and definitively.

You do realize you're in /r/conspiracy, right?

what someone's duty to the truth? A filmmaker's duty is to make a good film.

Of course it is Propaganda. American Sniper features scenes where the character Chris Kyle visits the VA to talk about PTSD. This is an area where the VA has been criticized as not doing enough to help. The government is actively using film as a mechanism to push the needle the other direction in the matter of veteran mental health.

I would recommend reading the book "Propaganda" by Edward Bernays (https://archive.org/details/Propaganda1928). In this book, he talks about using local leaders and having them stand up in the middle of restaurant and other public places giving "impromptu" speeches trying to sway public opinion about war. As time has progressed, film is just a new medium used to sway public opinion about issues.

I would recommend reading the book "Propaganda" by Edward Bernays

I would recommend this to all Americans. I bet if you asked 100 people off the street "Who invented propaganda?" you would get 1 of 2 responses from all of them, either Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia.

Both answers are incorrect. We, America, invented propaganda, and one could argue it is and has long been our most influential export.

Propaganda has been around as long as people have had the ability to imagine and create stories. I don't think it was invented in the past few hundred years.

War movies in general are grade A propaganda. If it was a war film coming out of a communist country, and America is the bad guy, everybody would say it was a propaganda piece. It is no different for American movies.

Olympus has fallen was one of the most aggravating experience I've had watching a film. The over the top patriotic characters got me so angry. There is scene of an American woman, screaming the notational anthem at the top of her lungs before she is shot by a Korean. What was more sick, was the absorbed amount of people that film brainwashed into believing that Korea was going to invade and we should stop all immigration.

Examples:
1
2
3
4
Fuck that film.

I'm with you on this, I think there's a lot to analyse and it gives a clearer picture of the corporate/military combination that we are living under. I posted a little summary a while ago of Hollywood's propaganda effort in 2013. Have a gander if you like! http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1jto1l/hollywoods_propaganda_2013_a_necessary_evaluation/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/tv-executives-admit-taped-interviews-193116

The only thing I dislike about this is the implication these are only liberal memes being pushed.

Good write up. Very insightful

You should look at the video games americans play like Call of Duty.

Not all of them

You should watch Oliver Stone's "Platoon" and Kubrick's "Full Metal Jacket" or Coppola's "Apocalypse Now". Basically detailing the stupidity and horror of war.

Stone isn't exactly known for being one to toe the government line. (i.e., JFK)

Full Metal Jacket my favorite out of those 3. Had to rent Platoon and Full Metal Jacket for a history assignment long time ago, FMJ been one of my favorite movies since then

It is not just movies. It is every, literally every type of media there is. Frances Saunders showed how the CIA funds operas, magazines, arts festivals, speakers, movies, etc. It is well known from Assange and Snowden that a large percentage of newspapers and TV news is filled with propaganda from the government.

All big media is a psy op, how do you think they got so big ? Imagine that everything we were born into since day one was filtered and manipulated to create the culture/religon/ideals we have today. The very ideas you think to be your own that are based on the education/culture/life experience you grew with are not your own, Uncle Sam provided those as well.

Speaking of 'Psy-ops'. Here's somethig out of left field...

I play a lot of online gaming, I would class myself officially as a "pro-loser". I spend a lot of my days playing games...

My 'crazy' mate who see's paterns 'where most wouldn't' said somethign along the lines of..

"have you noticed that the majority of online sessions recently have been smack bang, chock-a-block full of loud angry Russian kiddies"

I hit back with "It's a plan by 'the yanks' to get the world to hate russians." Mainly because it's made me physically hate being in the same lobby as them, and as a 'European' (I hate that description) I should have many millions of opponents before it goes anywhere hnear Russia. SUKA BLYAT!

MOBA's like lol and dota are very popular in Eastern Europe though, and the communitys on those kinds of games can be well less than friendly at times.

Casualties of War. Best anti-propaganda cure for the war porn industry. Everyone should see it. Horrible as it is to sit through.

Completely agree, journalists should give full graphic documentation of war. The coverage over the past two decades has been incredibly sterile.

yvan eht nioj

In part at least; pretty much everything has to carry some kind of payload for the machine before it's allowed to be made available for public consumption. CIA has been intertwined with Hollywood for many decades.

[deleted]

Well if there was a giant atomic lizard I'd assume the US military to get involved. Also showing 1 hour of solid CG monsters fighting would be expensive.

I was just wondering how they animated Pacific Rim, and how backwards the world is when it's cheaper to get the actual military involved, than to animate one.

It's not cheaper, it's subsidized. The military pays for propaganda.

You can't watch any movie produced after 2002? Serious?

[deleted]

Because nothing has been created in the last 12 years has been entertaining?

[deleted]

There is plenty of great art this year in film. Boyhood, Birdman, Whiplash, the Lego Movie, and Gone Girl are well worth the time it takes to watch them.

Birdman was a really great film, I was surprised.

Im pretty sure a lot of the old Godzilla movies were pro-US propaganda designed for post-war Japanese audiences.

Dude Top Gun and shit were partly financed by the military. You're totally and absolutely right. Nazi Germany has nothing on the propaganda of the West.

There's a story about a couple of air force pilots that met with the director at a bar once. They wanted to kick his ass because the reality of the Air Force was nothing like his propaganda piece and now they were fucked there.

Movies are about making money. No more, no less. The director may have an agenda, but the investors are in it for one reason. MEAN MR. GREEN.

Not independent movies. But you are right that a movie critical of US policy wouldn't get the backing of investors or the US military...

I think America has invented a new political ideology. Hitler had national socialism. America has national capitalism.

That's an interesting way of putting it.

Yes, capitalism. High corporate tax rates, government sponsored monopolies, prohibition of certain substances of dubious malevolence and the simultaneous endorsement of others, socialized healthcare, social security, endless welfare (with the Clinton work requirement stripped out for good measure)...

high corporate tax rates only for corporations without stellar accounting firms and lobbying groups in DC. The top corporations in America pay an effective tax rate of 0% to -10% (subsidized). Some gov't sponsored monopolies are a necessity - would you want 10 coal fired power plants vying in each town for the consumer's business? that might choke out everyone in the town. I'd say that we definitely aren't the Capitalist States of America, but rather the Corporate States of America. We certainly need to lower the corporate tax rate while also closing the loopholes that have allowed for the richest corporations in our country to get off completely scott-free.

It would greatly benefit today's society to have competition among power companies. I believe we would have cheaper, cleaner, more reliable power as a result. I'm on mobile, otherwise I'd elaborate. It likely doesn't matter as my capitalist, minimal goverment, maximum personal freedom type outlook is highly unpopular here on Reddit. Cheers, and thanks for taking the time to respond.

I like people and their ideas so long as they use logic and map it out to people they're having debates with. Cheers to you and your post as well.

One further thought - I have a strong feeling that the top corporations were big proponents of making our corporate tax rate one of the highest (if not the highest in the world). My logic behind this is that the top corporations, the ones already making the rules and sitting at the top of their respective industries' thrones, hike up the corporate tax rate to make it damn near impossible for smaller competitors to keep up and challenge them in their marketplace while they have the top accounting firms, lobbying groups, and offshore bank accounts to ensure that they do not have to play by the same rules as their less influential competitors.

Why and who would be detering people from joining the military and why would the military want this?

I understand the theory behind movies which drive recruitment and support for America's foreign policy and I believe in the examples you give like Top Gun.

If anything this American Sniper movie disproves your ideas, unless i'm missing something.

You're thinking about it too long. You're supposed to see that it's about the military, then stop, because military = conspiracy.

The military is about to suffer a lot of spending cuts if it can't engineer its way out of the incoming wave of "peace dividend".

Not just war movies. The other day I watched an old Cowboy movie [from the 60's I think]. In it all the actors were white, blonde, blue eyed nice people...apart from the Natives, they were shown to be blood thirsty and evil, just out to kill the poor white settlers. :( :P

But if you looked at it as it was, the settlers were living on the Native's land without a proper contract and had build already a house, plus taken some land they claimed was theirs.

The Native men were only doing what anyone would do to protect their home land and families. They weren't evil IMO at all. I rooted for the Natives of course; but didn't finish watching due to boredom.

That is how almost all American films seem to me, unless they are made by independent companies.

The most popular(and best!) westerns were made by Sergio Leone, and they had plenty of culpable whiteys, morally ambiguous heros, and frequently didn't even feature natives or had them as heros. Go watch Once Upon a Time in the West, probably the finest movie ever made. For a Few Dollars More and Magnificent Seven were Kurasawa remakes, FFS.

You should watch North West or something like that. I was shocked.

This? Why?

No.. This: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032851/?ref_=nv_sr_3

You should write movie reviews.

I thought something similar after watcing 'Elementary' (US Sherlock Holmes) butcher the Julian Assange/ Anonymous story.

Motherfucking Iron Man. so blisteringly pro-militarization.

Not just Iron Man but pretty much all of Disney's Marvel movies are laced with subtext about the military or terrorists.

Captain America II has Cap explicitly rebel against the military power structure and destroy its' new super-weapon. A weapon developed by the US using Nazi tech & scientists, you know, with historical accuracy!

destroy its' new super-weapon. A weapon developed by the US using Nazi tech & scientists, you know, with historical accuracy!

And destroys it's mass surveillance system.

Do you wanna build a Military Industrial Complex.....man?

I dunno about that. A big theme in Iron Man is the dissonance between the super hero and president of a company that creates weapons of war. That dichotomy is essentially the life of the series. The storylines drift but Tony Stark's character is basically going through a tug-of-war the whole time.

The opening of Iron Man 2 is literally the government trying to take away his guns and Tony says fuck you.

You're fucking high.

The entirety of Iron Man 2 is a love song to gun ownership rights. The movie literally opens with the government trying to take the suit and his tech away and he says fuck you. Then they literally steal his stuff and he has to get it kick their asses and the ass of the guy the government has selling them weapons.

The catalyst for all this is way back in the first Iron Man when he refuses to take do any more government weapons contracts or sell weapons at all.

It's the most pro civil liberty and anti-goverment over reach movie out there.

You are far from alone.

Movies like American Sniper are massive nationalist propaganda, and romanticizes the military industrial complex. It also reverts attention from the brutality of the murders of war and exalts those who kill.

On NBC News, Lester Holt was getting a hard-on reminding us the real sniper had 160-something kills.

Americans need to be winners in wars...there were more video games and movies made from Viet Nam than any other war, even though they lost...but losing can't be an option...they can't accept it. So propaganda is the only way to pretend they won.

The two most in your face propaganda war movies....Battleship and Act of Valor, which had actual Navy Seals starring in it.

no one will read this, but I am interested in the flip side of this coin where some movies offer a "soft disclosure" approach to revealing previously hidden truths to the public as opposed to trying to brainwash the public with propaganda.

For example there is a scene in Captain America: The Winter Soldier where Scarlet Johansson explains how Nazi scientists were brought to America after WW2 and called it by its actual name: Operation Paperclip

As a combat veteran, I find them soothing. Somehow they relax me.

I've never considered that actually, now thinking about that, I'd either think that, bringing back old memories of base and what not with the comradery that my friends show in their instagram pics, or complete and utter fear.

not all war movies are the same (not that I think that's how you think, but just had to say it). Some movies are much more glorifying/one-sided, yet others do a very good job at showing the grey area and allows for acknowledging the "enemy" as human beings with their own points of view. Saving Private Ryan/American Sniper may err more on the side of a propaganda/"rah rah go America" film while others like The Hurt Locker, Full Metal Jacket, Apocalypse Now, and The Deer Hunter show the very real effects of PTSD, depression, and the general sense of "why are we even here?" that many soldiers may ask themselves at some point.

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thank you, VeteransBot. I am not a veteran and do not suffer from PTSD, but I am aware of the effects and it's nice to know that reddit has teamed up with some sort of service to try to identify those who may be in need of some advice/support

also forgot to mention that "Team America - World Police" seemed very propaganda-y (3 years after 9/11, desperate for reasons to justify invading iraq, lumping a bunch of other bad guys from the same time period in to just ramp up our fear of the world outside of the U.S., and bashing of Michael Moore and other "pussy liberal types" who didn't "support our troops" by being anti-war).

I feel like that movie was satire though. It was so over the top propaganda (America - FUCK YEA) that I don't think people could take it seriously and could see through it. Plus, Trey Parker and Matt Stone wrote it, so I'm sure they see through all the bullshit of propaganda in movies.

that's what I thought at first, but I saw it again and thought differently. They still made the French seem like completely helpless people (because they didn't want to go into Iraq, we were calling things Freedom Fries), shitting on Michael Moore, shitting on Hans Blix and the UN and their (in)efficacy in identifying the "Axis of Evil", shitting on liberal Hollywood people with the F.A.G. group who may have been speaking out against war, etc..

It's been so long since I've seen it that you're probably right. I don't really remember any of those scenes clearly so I can't comment on them. Either way, I definitely do think most military movies are basically propaganda, so I usually don't see them.

definitely a pretty good rule of thumb.

Dude, the opening sequence has them blow up the Eiffel tower to stop a couple bad guys. Pro-America? Come on.

The underlying joke of that film is that every single character is a puppet on a string. From Hollywood Actors to Kim Jong Il to Terrorists to World Leaders to Michael Moore. It's a film that doesn't take conventional left-wing/right-wing sides. It picks on everyone with the whole 'dicks, pussies and assholes' monologue. It's basically a New World Order commentary.

Check out "Reel Bad Arab". It's the cinematic vilification of the Middle East since the 80's.

Of course it is propaganda. Most mainstream hollywood stuff is propaganda.

Welcome to the corporate world. You are awake.

The release of this movie reminds me too much of the movie being debuted in inglorious basterds

I thought the exact same thing.

I'd just like to point out that an Audi is not an American car.

So, no one noticed it with the "good" cowboys and the "bad" redskins ?

No.. but I served 10 years in the US Army. So I just get pissed off when they fuck up the uniforms or say or do stupid shit nobody in the service would ever say or do.

Is everyone forgetting Full Metal Jacket? Make a student watch that and I bet they think twice about joining the forces.

That's a Kubrick film. He was British.

Kubrick was American, mate. Didn't move to the UK until his 30s.

What you're saying doesn't make sense. It's an American war movie, I didn't hear any english accents in it just the annoying yankee squeal.

All the Hollywood films are bloody propaganda, from Walt Disney to Zero dark Thirty.

I agree, with every film you can just feel it. Also the films just straight up suck now. When do you think they really started to control Hollywood?

Well, the defense ministry is involved with the big studios since the first Academy Award (see Wings) at least. Just look how good they were at blacklisting filmmakers during the 50s. I'd say that even independent film now are very much under Washington gaze, just look how Sundance and Telluride were co-opted since the 1990's

I don't know if it's just me but I see a huge difference even in just the last five years. I don't know if it's because I was a child back then (only 19 now), but now a days it just seems so obvious that movies are being fucked with, and the whole industry is turning to shit, and it's the same exact thing with the mainstream music industry.

That is called capitalism my friend. The money have to keep flowing faster and faster and in less and less pockets.

The biggest problem with the movie industry right now isn't the government - It's the industry's fear of taking chances and reliance on market research.

Movie studios don't want to make these bloated 100+ million dollar investments in films that aren't absolutely 100% guaranteed to get them a $atisfying return as a result. So instead of trying to judge a script on its own merits, they'll see if something like it has been done before; whether the demographic in question will see X genre of movie with Y lead actor, et cetera. If it's a big dumb robot/action movie, they'll see how well it'll play with foreign markets (specifically China).

They want everything that's going to happen spelled out on paper before a single cent is sunk into the project, and there is absolutely no margin for financial failure. Turning a new idea into a widely-theatrically-released movie is nothing short of a small miracle these days, and most people with creative integrity are disgusted at the Hollywood process (rewrites, etc) that their vision would have to undergo anyway.

That's why >95% of all decent entertainment has been coming out on TV (or in independent films) for the past 10 years or so - the stakes are lower, and people are actually willing to take chances. Hollywood is so far up its own ass it's almost shocking when a decent film comes out these days.

Wasnt Elysium about Obamacare (in space).

A quick list of other propaganda flicks:

• 300 - The west is morally superior to the (middle) east
• The Dark Knight Rises - Standard government agencies are ineffective, so secretive extra-legal teams are needed to fight terrorists.
• The Interview - Maintain knee-jerk hatred of North Korea
• The Fifth Estate - Strengthen bias against Assange as a severely flawed individual
• Zero Dark Thirty - Frames torture as a legitimate activity
• This is the End - Subtly wraps comedy around a judeo-christian fear narrative
• all James Bond movies - completely misrepresents the lives and activities of intelligence agencies to make them seem glamorous positive forces

Promise me that you will never make an attempt to dramatize or adapt anything, because that would, by far, be the most boring movie I have ever seen. Even on points I agree with, This is the End didn't subtly wrap comedy around a 'judeo-christian fear narrative'. It's a comedy. There's nothing subtle about it, that's literally what they did. What's your point?

Absolutely no one walked away from that film fearing the apocalypse, or with the sense that they needed to be fed some dogma. Even with The Interview, when it's obvious how self serving and useful it is as propaganda, one of the people you're talking about is high the vast majority of the day. You can read it into it all you want, but a stoner making a stoner comedy is about as deep as a puddle. It can serve to drive perception, but it's primary function is to entertain.

The James Bond thing, yeah, duh. Being a spy, especially before the era of information, had an air of mystery. You want to argue that it promotes certain ideals or political ideas over others, sure. But that's retarded. Ian Flemming came up with a character, people saw money in it, and the jet setting, girl getting intrigue is an appealing trope. If it makes spy agencies look sexy, well duh. It's a movie. Would anyone have cared an inch about James Bond if he had zero charisma and a stutter?

It's a movie. In general, a movie's job is not to provide you with an objective message or ideal, it's to utilize drama, music, lighting, dialog, suspense, tension, to entertain people on the basest of levels. Can movies serve as tools for the government? Sure, and I have no reason to question why they'd have a marked interest in using them as tools. But examples like that are grasping at straws.

I mean hell, why stop at the movies? Let's question the source material as well. Clearly, people like Frank Miller, Ian Flemming, James Franco and Seth Rogen weren't thinking of anything other than serving the government to the best of their ability. Look at Batman. Clearly, a couple of barely 20 year old Jews created a vigilante as propaganda, which they knew would be used a century later.

When the planes are dropping bombs be sure not to mistaken them for fairy floss clouds dropping candy.

I don't buy James Bond as propaganda, just cartoony popcorn fun. Same for 300, but wasn't so much fun. The rest I agree with.

here's a few more propaganada flicks

• Jurassic Park-man over nature
• Mad Max- justifies the use of violence for the control of petroleum resources
• Annie Hall- pedohile Jew encourages women to be weak and subservient
• Hogan's Heros- german soldiers are bumbling fat idiots
• 3:10 to Yuma- Murder and robbery are romantic and glorious
• Gravity- glorifies humanities disgusting explorer complex and frames the Space Program as the pinnalce of human existence
• Rumble in the Bronx- delegitamizes hard working immigrants and dismisses all asians as kung fu superheroes
• Too Fast Too Furious Series- glorifies robbery and dangerous driving, the heroes are always caucasian except for the one black guy who is a rapper
• From Dusk Til Dawn- frames vampires as evil creatures
• The Lego Movie- glorifies Hollywood's narrative towards dehumanizing people
• Mrs.Doubtfire- incredibly insensitive film that paints transgender people in an unfair light and asserts that females are incapable of caring for their children without a man
• Blank Check- encourages obsession over money and its supremacy over morality
• Lord of Dogtown- encourages children to idolize lazy skater trash
• E.T. - makes the existence of government coverups seem childish and silly

[deleted]

what are you some kinda shill for BigGarlic?????

I grew up on Top Gun but I can't watch it any more, or any other war movies for that matter, for the very reason you describe.

Full Metal Jacket might be the only exception I can think of because Kubricks take on war appears somewhat positive and interesting on the surface and quite scathing when you really analyse the film.

I don't remember the volleyball scene in "Full-Metal Jacket."

It was right after Pvt. Pyle decorated the bathroom wall.

i see all american movies as propaganda, if they arent glorifying war they are pushing cultural marxism or similar, there is always an agenda.

You are definitely not the only one. The military-entertainment complex is real. They are using sophisticated mind control techniques, and they have a limitless budget.

I used to get all ra-ra war when I saw war movies. Luckily I snapped out of it and realized the absurdity, lies, and carnage that really characterize war.

It's shocking and surreal to see how celebrated this unnecessary perversion still is in our society.

I find even all the ancient Greece/rome movies, like 300 and gladiator, especially 300 have a lot of US army propaganda. There's a lot of not so subtle scenes, dieing for ur country, never surrender bla bla bla

Also to promote xenophobia

Nope. Take the recent robocop movie. Pure propaganda for the American military and drones.

http://theghostdiaries.com/robocop-and-hollywood-drone-propaganda/

Its funny we think its common knowledge that other countries media are filled with propaganda but of course ours own is not. I imagine that's how people in North Korea feel too.

Tales Of The Military-Entertainment Complex: Why The U.S. Navy Produced 'Battleship'

I don't see all or many of them as propaganda. But I'll tell you what, I'm a former Marine, and I feel like American Sniper is. I think it's a really bad movie actually. They jump around a lot, it isn't really in depth. I'm surprised that this is from Clint Eastwood. Bradley Cooper is a great actor but the whole story lacked substance.

MovieBob knows how you feel

This type of propaganda also infests a lot of museums in America - any museum with air sea and space, and obviously military is chock full of military propaganda I found as a visiting Australian a couple years ago.

What amazes me is that we are really stupid ignorantly blind of what a militarized society we are. Everything is always military. "All" of our historic sites are military / war related if not even just literally a couple of dirt mounds in some woods that were used as cover. It's not even as surprising how many of our historic sites are war related, but it's even more surprising, albeit even more difficult, once you start realizing all the historic events that aren't marked or documented well.

Hell yeah man, this shit is all propaganda

Here's a few random musings in response:

The only major blockbuster war film I've watched that didn't seem to do it to the degree expected was Capatain America 1(ironic I know!!!) That seemed to actually be quite considered in their suggestions of what form and shape patriotism should take on.

I'm still waiting for a Vietnam War film showing the Viet Cong's perspective. That would be absolutely mind-blowing cinema.

Even Team America World Police was propaganda in their eventual message too, the whole: if someone has gotta be on top it's better that it's us, message

FYI op all Hollywood productions that use US military hardware have to have their script approved by the DOD - all war films are definitely propaganda.. In fact.. I'd go as far as saying that a large portion of movies have dubious messages or intentions. It would make sense that Hollywood is entirely compromised.. By whom and to what extent I don't know.. But blackmail would be a place to start.. This could be why the surveillance apparatus is so important to the state.. Not only in the entertainment industry but financial and political too.. Given Hollywood's track record with peadophilia you would be dumb, as a nation state in the game of spying and propaganda, to not take advantage of that.

American Sniper is a top sponsor on Fox. (My dad watches that shit 24/7)

Not just propaganda but willfully bending the truth for their own agendas.

Fury, holy shit.

All of the allies troops were dishelved nice guys with personalties that just wanted to see their family and rid the world from evil!!

Every German soldier was a nasty bald nazi with no remorse and that stereotype 'evil' look. They were all organised and dehumanised.

Not to mention the daft last battle and other parts, but also showing the german soldiers marching and then slaughtering them with out any remorse, ignoring the fact they were just young men that were mislead. Not mentioning they also had families, children, ambitions, dreams and futures, no just slaughter them and celebrate Brad Pitt taking 5000 bullets and getting blown up by 2 grenades and staying intact.

I'm English by the way, so its not as if I have some pro-german agenda, but the film was really quite disgustingly one-sided, though I imagine most other world war 2 films are but I've never really had the same outlook.

[deleted]

Paths of Glory is one of the most anxiety producing films of all time for me. i would not want to walk a day in the shoes of anyone who spent time in those trenches.

/r/MilitaryConspiracy

Everything that comes out for masses to make money is a propaganda.

Cops/agent movies too.

Yup was thinking this when I saw American Sniper the other day.

What about 3 kings? Depicts rogue soldiers stealing gold. Making deals with the enemy. That's conspiracy shit

The film producers probably didn't have the support of the Film Liaison Office.

No.

I agree that they are mostly propaganda, and the brainwashing effect can be pretty powerful, especially for shows like law and order. But on the flip side, I don't believe a lot of these are conspiracies. I enjoy a lot of those movies and actually really enjoy law and order. On the flip side, I think police brutality is out of control and that our continued wars amount to nothing more then mass murder to progress corporate agendas with the complicity of the mainstream media. So yeah, these things can be used as propaganda, but the problem is obviously much deeper when our population molds its view of the world through Hollywood movies.

And yes, 3 flip sides.

No, almost seems sometimes that it's their only purpose.

Depends on the movie. Some are some aren't. But most of them are. But that's nothing unique to the US. Motion pictures have been used for propaganda since it came even somewhat accessible for the greater public.

I mean I don't blame them, it's a good tactic. I'd use it as well if I'd want to spread propaganda.

But we need to separate propaganda and propaganda. Just building on national pride like most US movies do, doesn't mean it's propaganda aimed to change the minds of people. Then you have the other form of propaganda that aims to convince people to think in one way or another. And that's the bad propaganda.

Nope

The government and media simply serve the Zionist-Military-Industrial-Financial-Intelligence-Complex.

American sniper cough cough

Why can't a movie just be a movie anymore.

You say that as if this was new.

always have.

Psst...ALL movies are propaganda, whether they intent to or not. What you should be discussing is how overt it is in some movies.

You mean social normalization Yea

Police, law, and politic shows like "the West Wing" are the true propaganda shows. I hate those shows so much

There's a reason why these types of shows are what makes up most of the network primetime. I mean, they are terrible and stupid, they can't be making more money than something really interesting... unless they're being funded by someone.

American War movies

War movies and Cop Dramas .... disgusting.

Yeah, America is awful. If only it had never existed the world would be much better off.

Yeah no light bulbs, no telephone, no internet, no cure for polio.... Would be wonderful.

Mockingbird

Then there is that "War Stories" show, hosted by the CIA's very own Oliver North.

Propaganda propaganda rah rah rah.

not at all, I thought that too when I saw the adds for American Sniper, and Zero Dark Thirty was just fucking blatant propaganda

black hawk down is a fuckin joke.

American Sniper is such propaganda. The real life sniper was a sociopath. Unbroken was pretty awful too. What is with these dumb movies?

No your not alone. Some aren't, but they are few and far between.

Of course it's propaganda. We have a volunteer military. Gotta get them to join somehow

Lone survivor certainly was. I don't tend to watch war movies. Why would anyone want to spend their relaxing time watching people kill or die? I never watch films with killing.

WWIII is coming so they need everybody to feel patriotic and join the military, that's why movies like American Sniper are released. By the way, American Sniper is a 2 hour commercial for the Military. With American Sniper there is no way to see beyond the amount of propaganda they put in in. And if you make a movies that displays the military in a bad way, they don't provide you with advice and material. So your movies is gone suck, if you call it Black Hawk Down and use UH-1 Iroquois helicopters instead of UH-60 Black Hawks. That is how the government keeps grip on the pro/anti war movies.

The whole entertainment industry is seen as a soft power instrument by the american government on various levels and in various departments including the DoD. There are even specific offices in DoD whose jobs are pitching, working with, and facilitating access to materiel and personnel in the military. A lot of it is self perpetuating and self reaffirming, i.e., we like movies in which we are the good guys and winning against bad guys with our technical and tactical superiority, but it encompasses movies, TV, music, and especially video games. There is a natural element to it, but it cannot be said that our government doesn't facilitate that soft power, let alone, out of principle, reject supporting it. Ultimately it benefits the government and military if people have been conditioned with propaganda that we always win.

Wonder why no one mentioned fury. Fuck this movie.

When I heard of the filming of the last Batman movie and how politicians wanted to be in it and how they were so friendly with Mayor Bloomberg, it made me realize how close the industry is to the government.

I don't. Maybe it's just me being a sheeple, but I see it as a director brainstormed up a cool movie idea, and they put it into action. Does this mean we should stop having war movies?

No mention of Steven Spielberg's "Saving Private Ryan"

Here is a letter from an SS Veteran to Spielberg

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=47252

I'd rather see an "American War movie" that would make the audience think of how inappropriate and horrible War is now. Not washed up with propaganda and 'Merica intellect.

Some are and some aren't. It'd take a special kind of mind to watch Apocalypse Now and view it as pro-war propaganda

american sniper cough cough

starship troopers

It's not even opinion but fact. The Pentagon provides financial support to most of these films, and exercises a right to modify the actual script itself.

Propaganda is everywhere. It's kinda horrifying.

no..i know they're propaganda as well!

I think you guys are really over analyzing this. It's not much of a surprise that a movie that's target audience would be patriotic Americans would have a patriotic message. It's all just marketing, they're trying to take your money not your minds.

Watch the British movie The Mark of Cain. It doesn't reek British propaganda...

You are not the only one. I can think of one war film that tells the story of the losers. Letters From Iwo Jima is the film that comes to mind. I would have to review the war films that I have seen in my life to come up with a few more.

I just watched jarhead 2, it reeks of propaganda. They make the US military bases in Afghanistan look like party central, soldiers high fiving each other at Hawaiian themed parties, having fun all day long, everyone with high moral, etc. kinda makes you wanna go enlist! Check it out, it's a blatant propaganda piece on netflix

My uncle who was in World War Two, he talked about this sometimes

Said he hated to see war so glorified and romanticized.

[deleted]

The game was pretty good years ago but the console version really sucked. I haven't played it recently but I enjoyed it. It didn't make me want to join up or anything though.

no

I have thought this for some time. There's a reason (as said in other comments) that the US military is so happy to oblige and provide millions and millions of dollars worth of equipment and man hours for free for films.

no. that's exactly what it is. propaganda. Clint Eastwood is a famous pro business pro war pro republican. war is good business.

It's not just American war movies. Basically every modern Hollywood action film these days stars some young patriotic dipshit jarhead who can't act in the lead role.

I just finished watching Godzilla expecting to see Bryan Cranston for the entire duration. So pissed.

One of the best things my parents taught me was how to instantly recognize an American propaganda movie, it has 3 things on the cover/poster: an American flag, a gun and a serious looking man.

It's not 100% accurate necessarily but pretty damn close.

They love showing off military equipment in movies. Hell most of the time in transformers movies it's showcasing the military.

I thought Fury didn't really look like pro war propaganda.

First ten minutes didn't... the rest though, hurr durr i r murrican i kill 500 nazis with my broken tank.

To be fair, that's only Jon Bernthal's character.

Oh, no? Wardaddy was a Jew, that's obvious.

an its only going to get worse see link below

http://rt.com/usa/smith-mundt-domestic-propaganda-121/

They are definitely propaganda which is why I can still enjoy them. But really any war movie is going to take a side and could be called propaganda for that country.

This is the best answer in this whole thread.

If this movie is about the guy I'm thinking of, he killed a ton (a ton) of people. I believe I listened to an episode of True Murder about him. It was interesting.

I dont really see how American Sniper is propaganda. It was clearly arguing against joining the military. If you want a fucked up life then join the military is how i saw it. Almost nothing positive happens in the movie. By the end of it hes a broken man that has to be fixed because of war. The only downside to the movie being that it doesnt show americas wrong doings in that war but that wasnt the point of the movie in the first place.

In the end any movie can be propaganda if you let it be. Ive never heard of someone joining the military because of a movie though.

This goes way further back than Top Gun. Check out Frank Capra's Why We Fight.

Why did the DOD have a hand in making karate kid 2?

Yes.

I'm pretty sure there is a tax break or something if a studio makes a military movie.

they get provided hardware

Hmm, what a unique number of upvotes.

You...you're joking..right?

I actually agree with you but i have a question for this whole subreddit: what do you guys think would happen is America stopped being a war run country? The way our government operates means you and I can sit here in relative peace and extreme comfort.

I'd more-so say that they're an effect of propaganda which furthers the goals of the said propaganda. Clint Eastwood isn't in on any conspiracy

all these movies are like the fake movie they made in argo, including argo.

Anything that is ostensibly set in the real world is propaganda. And definitely, it's clearly documented in the histories that that the government has collaborated with Hollywood in order to shape narratives and create propaganda. it's not all bad though, the film "the best years of our lives" is really really powerful.

if someone makes a wwII or iraq movie in earnest, not some men staring at goats thing, then i just don't care about that project or their next one.

if you think americans need more wwII art and ideas, you are an idiot

No.

Not all war movies are entirely propaganda. I just watched Fury and besides being pro American, it got the point across that war is hell very well.

Forget war movies, look at cartoon/superhero movies.

Captain America was originally made to be a propaganda piece for WWII.

Most of the superhero movies are colloquiums for todays events, for example in the Avengers it is to portray the we (Avengers) vs them (Chitauri) mentality.

No.. I think this is fairly well known. Not all of them are propaganda though.

Regardless, you're still allowed to enjoy them for their plot, script, acting, special effects, and cinematography just like you're allowed to laugh at funny commercials even though they're trying to sell you something.

Its past propaganda at this point , this is pretty much brainwashing media

A book called "hollywood goes to war" talked about how after ww1 the us public was understandably completely against war. Remember that war had ended when the mothers of soldiers had march by the thousands in the street to protest the never ending war in an event now ironically honored as a war parade called veterans day.

Anyway. So no one wanted to enlist.

Well the powers called up hollywood who dreamed up the movie "Sargent York" staring gary cooper. Its the story of a deep rural southern game hunter pacifist who doesnt want to enlist but then goes to war and, after seeing his buddies killed, picks off huge numbers of germans and gets even more to surrender just to him.

The movie was a huge hit. It won academy awards and ... Most importantly... After huge numbers of the pubkic had seen it their polls showed americans wrre no longer pacifist.

Mission accomplished.

Not just the U.S. army nor just a recent issue

I saw a film today oh boy The English Army had just won the war A crowd of people turned away But I just had to look Having read the book I'd love to turn you on

Not all, but quite a few.

Everything is propaganda, including this post and this comment.

nope, Ben affleck does too.

I remember reading a TIL about how the Soviet Union had war propaganda films during the Cold War portraying America as being ruled by an evil king who wanted to rule the world. Basically all countries have war propaganda films and America is no different.

They are all Propaganda, even if they are just pushing gender role and class systems.

I haven't seen Selma yet, but am surprised by the rave reviews, especially seeing that Oprah is involved. I imagine they are pushing the non-violent MLK with a hole in his head, and not the radical MLK that was arrested 20 times and deemed dangerous enough to the establishment to merit a hole in his head.

They have to use War movies to recruit as they want to divert attention away from the fact all those who died in the middle east wars over the last 10 or so years basically died for nothing. You obviously don't want new recruits pondering over that too long. It was the same with Vietnam, make movies about lots of explosions gloss of the losing part.

24 made me more aware of the importance of drone strikes

See we Russians aren't the only ones who glorify the military power in movies.

Yes totally. In Vietnam movies for example America is always portraied as a victim of that war, yet about 2 million vietnamese let their lives in that war (while less than 250000 US soldiers died)

Afghanistan and Iraq movies always have this tone of "We bring these people peace and freedom and look how happy they are now".

The only war movies that are being nowadays are WWII movies (but only the war agains Nazi Germany, not agains the Japanese) because that is the only war that the US ever won, and only because they waited long enough.

I agree but Ridley Scott's Black Hawk Down was an anti-war movie if their ever was one. Of course he's officially listed as producer.One scary movie.

Ye I thought Unbroken was a great movie although it had an "American is the best" slight of propaganda.

You aren't the only one.

Please watch "the Beast of War" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0094716/

It's an American movie filmed in Israël with full collaboration of the Israëli army

about a Soviet tank crew in BIG problems during the Russian occupation of Afghanistan.

The Yanks play a Soviet tank crew... WTF?

Yeah, it stars George Dzundza and one of the lesser Baldwins

YouTube link to complete movie: https://www.youtube.com/timedtext_video?v=1Pdp59x6KaA

I've stayed clear of war movies and Westerns all my life. I never could get into them. And when I figured out what they were, I really didn't care to pursue them. They are all propaganda. There's really no way around it.

No, I'm pretty sure the people who make them see them as propaganda too. I also think of all the CoD games like this. I couldn't think of anything more boring than obsessing over which weapons I'm using or what stats I have. I hate war movies too. I guess its just geared towards a certain type of individual.

From what I've read a lot of people do.... I find this to be kind of narrow minded though to be honest.

It's a movie about one man's story in a war. Of course it's going to be shown from his perspective which may seem narrow minded and "toolish", but it's a movie about him so that would only make sense, right?

I mean how many movies are out there that have main characters with questionable morale? Movies that involve rape, mass murders, gang activity etc.... yet people don't go around saying that it's promoting the activity because they generally realize that it's just telling a story.

But personally, I didnt feel like the war is glamorized. The man suffered from PTSD and struggled to live a "normal" life. It showed the hardship that war has on a person and the people that they love.

I think people (not necessarily you) are getting too worked up over the film and reading too into the message. It's a story about one guy in the wars perspective, that's it.

Screenwriter mysteriously killed in 1997 after finishing script that revealed the 'real reason' for US invasion of Panama had been working for the CIA... and both his hands were missing

Nope, I have pretty much looked at it that way since I could form my own thoughts.

I tried to watch "American Sniper". It was such a propaganda loaded sack of shit I only made it about half way through. It was like a boyscout and superman had gay sex but they actually reproduced and the product was "The American Sniper". Also it's worth looking in to Ventura's side of things if your familiar with the back story of the character the movie is based on.

a lot of war movies push me away from the military .. Some movies show the effects of what war has when people come back home with ptsd and other mental issues .. So I kind of see it as a different approach ..

I actually brought this exact thing up in the comments of a meme that made front page. The meme said the real life sniper was an asshole.

I sad it is a similar movie concept to the Nazi propaganda film in Inglorious Bastards except that it is American propaganda.

You should see the stupid comments and backlash I got for suggesting it. Not to mention most people are complete morons.

vidmax.com

Am i the only one here who thought Zero Dark Thirty was a delightful theatrical fiction? lol

No you are not the only one. But it is not official propaganda...

Well since the military is drawing down exponentially, I know because I'm actively an E5 in the army. I honestly don't see American Sniper being used as a Recruiting tool. I don't see Clint Eastwood as a man that's used by the Hollywood elites to push an agenda either. I could see "American Sniper" being used as a tool to justify the war or at least show what happened their.

Well since the military is drawing down exponentially

I think the global profiteers of the Military Industrial Complex are just trying to promote the idea of unlimited unknown terror suspects & sell their goods to police forces. That way it is harder for conspiracists to untangle a denser web of profiteering propaganda & staged acts.

What about legos, or jack reacher?

Mmmm... Hi everyone! Thank you for joining us today on "Cooking with PeacefulChimera"!

Today I'm going to show you how to cook up some karma! Mmmmmm! It's easy-peasy. Just follow these steps:

1. Find your favorite subreddit.

2. Post a rhetorical question that you know everyone in said subreddit will agree with (I.e., Does anyone else think Christmas is over commercialized? On r/Frugal)

3. Slowly add upvotes over a day or so.

4. Bask in the glory of your delicious karma!

Thanks for joining us. Tune in next time when we'll bake a comment karma cake!

EDIT: Sarcastic grammar mistake.

while this was pretty damn funny - couldn't this post at least serve as a "blacklist" of movies that we should make sure to be skeptical of or perhaps reconsider a movie that we didn't think twice about maybe 5, 10, 20 years ago? Obviously 99% of the subscribers to this subreddit were going to eat this up (myself included) but I did find it useful in looking at some more types of movies in this same light as before.

The Lego Movie was shameless propaganda from plastic lobbyists and climate change deniers. /s

You forgot propaganda from people who want to spread positive messages. Disgusting. Might as well use subliminal messages while they're at it.

Now remember, it's only subliminal if you barely notice it.

The short answer is no.

So what about the freedoms you have? How did you get those freedoms? And to those questions you may say "what freedoms? We're living in a controlled works and we have no freedoms etc etc etc" the truth is your not being rounded up for execution because of your skin color or eye color or choice of religion or your sex or sexuality or who your family is or for any other reasons. Your not in shackles and chains being sold to a rich Shiek who wants to take your virginity and is willing to buy you as an object. Your not being thrown in prison for what you post on reddit or anywhere online about your thoughts about the government. All of those rights you are enjoying were bought and paid for with blood. People for a few generations have fought and died so you could have the freedom to sit there with your own opinion and think that crap. You can think whatever you want to about the government. That's your freedom. But you seriously need to fucking check your self before talking shit on our military and the men and women who serve. Without them doing what they do you couldn't sit on your couch or computer or whatever and do what you do and talk shit on them. Just fucking think about the big picture and realistically give it a serious thought for once. Do you under stand people are killed in other countries for saying half of what you did? Or in other nations like north Korea people are killed and executed if they simply turn their back to a picture of Kim Jong Un which they are forced to put in their house and bow to it every day. Just fucking think about what you say about certain things.

who are we really defending though? there is no threat. you are so brainwashed.

Please explain to me how I'm brainwashed and what your problem is with the people that protect your freedoms and rights? Do you think you would be able to say stuff like this without risk of execution in every country?

people are protecting my freedom from whom?

you have to understand, no one is out to get you or your freedom, LOL.

America causes the problems so they can protect themselves from their own problems.

Have you been over seas and witnessed it first hand? Have you walked around in Syria or Afghanistan or Iraq and seen first hand that they don't? No you fucking haven't. There are evil fucking people and organizations out there that wasn't nothing more than to kill you and your family because your not Islamic. Simple. You shouldn't believe everything in the news is real or that the government isn't fucked up but to believe that no one in the entire world wants to kill you is foolish. Mathematically that's impossible. No matter your thought on the government, armed forces or the country as a whole. Are you really that naive? If your smart enough to figure all these secrets out and to see through "the master plan" then you SHOULD be smart enough to realize that.

Are you that brainwashed?

I been overseas...now let me bitch slap you and put you into your place since you are a sheep and will listen.

You are told to believe that there are evil people out there in the world that will kill you for not being Islamic, etc.

You are that fucking retarded to believe this.

With the current situation we have in this world, the only reason there are terrorists is because of America.

America started all of these problems to convince people that these are legitimate problems; how do you think America stays afloat? THEY NEED WAR, else they are NOTHING.

You my sir, are a sheep, will not listen to logic; therefore, you are FUCKING RETARDED.

And tbh, terrorists are actually in the right; they have been fucked for so long, it is only fair.

Look at their viewpoint you fucking american.

If America is the only reason these people are killing schools full of children and fighting and killing innocent people then how come they have been doing this for thousands of years and America has only been around for 200? I do listen to reason but no I don't fucking follow what the government or polluted news outlets tell me. And the fact that contradicted yourself shows the faults in your logic. First you say there are no such thing then in the same post you say that the terrorists that you said don't exist are actually in the right and do exist.

I watched American Sniper yesterday and if anything, it makes me WANT to join the military. The story is so inspiring, and I have such respect for our troops. Maybe if you actually saw it you would understand.

Watch this video and see for yourself why you'd be throwing away your life. Called "JFK to 9/11 Everything is a rich man's trick" http://youtu.be/U1Qt6a-vaNM

It's more pro America/Military rather than propaganda, there's a difference.. I'd imagine most countries would do that with their own country, especially if the military is involved in the process.

American Sniper didn't have all that much of that to be honest.. the ending was the exception where the credits showed nothing but Patriotism inducing photos. It was very awkward to be honest, because most people wanted to leave but they felt some unspoken pressure to stay.

Had to scroll to the bottom of the thread to the most down-voted comment before someone made any sense.

Movies are stories. Stories communicate emotions and ideas. Many of them have a point. You can't label everything propaganda based on it being pro-something. Clearly my bowl of cereal this morning was propaganda for toilet paper companies! Why else would it have been so high in fiber?!?!?!?!?!?!

Wasn't that actual footage of the funeral? Explains some of what you're saying.

It was video of the procession and stills from the funeral.

Why do you hate America and puppies?

Sadly, few are brave enough to speak about it.

a fantastic documentary available on youtube for free: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8N3EztyOoA&list=PL2F327072B017663A

I also thought that more people are starting to see the truth, but I guess I just surround myself with like-minded people.

And conveniently serving as propaganda doesn't negate the value of a film. Jesus Christ, is there nothing safe to be enjoyed as entertainment without the purveying sense that literally everything is designed to keep you ignorant or enslaved? It's a film, and every country tells 'their story' through their media. Can we not just appreciate a film for being a good film, and try to think critically?

If you don't want to enjoy it, don't enjoy it, but questioning everything is great right up until the point you're unable to accept anything.

what someone's duty to the truth? A filmmaker's duty is to make a good film.

Hey, at least you have that arrest record now to follow you the rest of your life! Not guilty? Too bad, still a criminal on background checks.

I can't, because I haven't seen it... and I won't unless I hear from someone that they were historically accurate and portray Lincoln as a bigoted shitbag.

Same here. I got my record expunged though since I didn't actually do the crime. That didn't stop them from hurting me anyway they could though.

Just watched american sniper and thought damn i knew he was "the deadliest sniper" but how horribly tragic the ending was. Turns out it was probably a pissoed ptsd vet who was sick of chris kyles out right blatant lies

Don't think we could be president, but as long as you're honest about your past to government jobs they might let you.

Is that a yes? I just mean you said the word "official story" like we're talking about 9/11 ors omething. The "official story" is literally the word of all qualified historians from the time period.

Trouble is there's always a new generation of kids who are not aware of this.

Please explain to me how I'm brainwashed and what your problem is with the people that protect your freedoms and rights? Do you think you would be able to say stuff like this without risk of execution in every country?

MOBA's like lol and dota are very popular in Eastern Europe though, and the communitys on those kinds of games can be well less than friendly at times.

I wonder if generally this is true or if it's just the people on the internet and/or Reddit?

That's for the public to decide. Theoretical: would you rather have a mayor of your city who was a corrupt crooked yet outwardly squeaky clean a-hole, or a guy who genuinely and in your opinion has the best interests of the community in his heart and the ability to act on that in the office, yet was imprisoned in the past for a serious non-felony?

The great irony of our system is that for most higher state offices, most states have laws that disallow felons from running, but go read the Constitution...you can be a convicted serial killer and still run for and even be allowed under law to win the Presidency or Congress as long as you meet the age and residency requirements.

Almost makes one think the founding fathers had no intention of arrest records or crimes already left in the past keeping people from participating in their government, but that's just domestic terrorist talk ;)

What amazes me is that we are really stupid ignorantly blind of what a militarized society we are. Everything is always military. "All" of our historic sites are military / war related if not even just literally a couple of dirt mounds in some woods that were used as cover. It's not even as surprising how many of our historic sites are war related, but it's even more surprising, albeit even more difficult, once you start realizing all the historic events that aren't marked or documented well.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_US_senators_and_congressmen_are_convicted_felons

okay, so yeah, anybody who doesn't support anti-semitism is a shill. got it

I like people and their ideas so long as they use logic and map it out to people they're having debates with. Cheers to you and your post as well.