No, I didn't know too much. I went to SRD because I get a shot ton of username mentions from that sub, so I used an alt account to "defend myself" and laugh at the circle jerk. I had to use an alt because I'm banned from that sub, and using an alt to evade a subreddit ban is apparently grounds for a shadow ban.
I did not know this, but now I do. I have been unbanned and everything is right with the world.
I can assure you that he does. You can attack a group of people, like saying all black people are dumb, But you can't attack a single person, like a single racist, by calling them a racist (even if they admit they are one), because that's personal and only a meanie would do that :(.
Its possible to do that without making it personal but that requires one to have extraordinary tact.
Unless you're 100% confident that your comment isn't just a fancy worded personal attack I would recommend that you just stick to the subject at hand and forget about the user.
If a racist didn't want to be called a racist they should not have said something racist. If they are confident that what they said is not racist they should be able to defend themselves and convey that.
Why do you feel it is important to protect the feelings of those who hold abhorrent, hateful opinions while turning a blind eye in situations in which other rules are broken? the rule against shill accusations being a prime example.
As far as racism goes. Reality is racist sometimes. Thus we must be able to discuss it. We can not ignore the elephant in the room.
Conspiracy exists to discuss these unpopular ideas. So we do not appreciate social punishment for people doing exactly what they are supposed to do here.
If we draw a line on what is too offensive to discuss here then we may as well draw 12 of them. If we allow users to be attacked for racism then we must define racism, which causes us to draw more lines, and then someone is also offended about dead children being discussed and they want to attack people for that too. Then its feminism and MRAs and then we can't talk about this or that or the other.
Then the SJWs control the conversation, not the actual community.
So we draw no lines except on how you are expected to behave here. We moderate behavior and not content.
I have never once seen someone be warned or banned for a shill accusation. And they occur in nearly every thread in which a user posts a dissenting opinion.
How can you go on a diatribe about free speech regarding the use of words or language while defending the right to ban those who make statements you don't like, such as racism accusations?
Do you not see the contradiction?
Edit: Your attempt to differentiate behaviour and content is a bullshit excuse. You selectively ban that which you don't like.
The reason you don't hear about it because the people accusing others of being shills don't report back to SRD or some other metareddit to complain about it. You're only hearing one half of the story.
No. I am going into threads and seeing comments with users straight out calling other people shills as a means of discrediting them. I am on a phone so linking is difficult, but it is likely unnecessary considering I have a feeling you know how prevalent it is.
Then there are all the times people are called sheep, government apologists, useful idiots etc. Never enforced.
You seem to be dodging some of my questions so I'll cut to the chase. Why do you think it is appropriate to selectively limit free speech according to your own biases?
We are outnumbered here on reddit. If we were to allow this place to be absolutely no holds barred, it would not be a conspiracy sub it would look more like conspiratard.
This sub if FOR talking about conspiracies, its NOT FOR harassing people who want to talk about conspiracies. So do we enforce the rules in favor of people who show a genuine interest in conspiracy theories? Absolutely we do. Do we outright ignore rules violations by people who show genuine interest in conspiracy theories? No we don't. Our bias leans in the favor of people who show genuine interest in conspiracy theories, as it should. Anyone who wants it to be a different way has their own reasons for being here and has no genuine interest in conspiracy theories.
We aren't required to let people come here and shit on this community for the sake of fairness.
"Why do you think it is appropriate to selectively limit free speech according to your own biases?"
You've actually answered it quite well. Your explanation perfectly demonstrates the method you use silence those you disagree with.
By selectively enforcing the rules based on your own definitions of "genuine interest" you essentially give yourself Carte-Blanche to ban anyone who disagrees with you. See, on my other account, I would likely fall under someone you would label as an individual who shits on this subreddit. In reality, I have a very keen interest in conspiracy theories, I just happen not to believe in many of them. So I debate people here and question motives and conclusions. Using loosely defined rules and language allows you to do whatever you want. As a result, genuine skeptics are scared away or banned.
You are exactly what this sub-reddit claims to hate, but on a smaller scale. An individual who exercises control in their position of power to enforce a specific worldview. Someone who uses the rules and system to their own ends while labelling any who might oppose as a dissenter sent from a rival faction to disrupt the peace.
Sounds like you just twisted what he said.
The gist of it is:
If you dont want to have a healthy debate about the facts or lack of of a conspiracy you dont belong here.
If you want to attack a persons character by using inflammatory statements like "You're Crazy" or " "Delusional" instead of focusing on the facts or lack their of - You dont belong here.
This isn't Flytypes personal vendetta against anyone, this is what a mod is suppose to do in this community, keep discussions on track, if you dont like it, you don't have to be here. The fact that you are here and dont agree with this is very suggestive as to your motives.
this is what a mod is suppose to do in this community, keep discussions on track, if you dont like it, you don't have to be here.
That is true. The problem is that there is a blatant double standard. Shill accusations, claims of people being sheep are never, ever enforced. In fact, Flytape often takes part in those himself. But the second you dare imply something someone said is racist... here comes the banhammer. So...
This isn't Flytypes personal vendetta against anyone
It absolutely is. It is selective enforcement of the rules to fit an agenda. You are following what you should be here to fight.
Because he does not give a shit. As long as he has his little peons to follow him and believe every stupid word out of his mouth, why not just keep chugging along?
There are no abuse of power, its simply a matter of removing people that don't contribute to /r/conspiracy in a meaningful fashion. Don't like it, don't stay.
Exactly, If all someone is going to do is try and derail conversations with stupid attacks on a person's character and not focus on what makes a conspiracy or not then you dont belong in r/conspiracy.
Thanks! It was mildly entertaining to see a bunch of people in conspiracy who have literally never participated here, pretending to be community members and singing the praises of my demise.
As if conspiracy members of all people wouldn't notice these non-regulars.
No they don't like it because personal info has been posted many many times and after the Boston bombing fiasco they would rather it be forgotten and hive mind of conspiracy be directed at something constructive.
So wait... if you click on a link form that bot and dont vote on a comment and just make your own its grounds for a ban?
Makes me wonder if there is a mod within srd that is also and admin just to ban people. I mean wtf why cant you at the very least face your accusers and defend your position?
No they banned /u/flytape years ago for telling the truth about SRD circlejerking in SRD. I used a different account /u/fiytape to defend myself in there. By using a different account to evade a ban, I brought this shadow ban on myself.
The admins unbanned me because it was pretty obvious that I was summoned there by username mention like 20 times. The mods of SRD likely reported me for ban evasion.
I've agreed to not comment in SRD from any account in the future.
And if ban evasion is truly a shadowbannable offense, admins have a lot of work to do with the ban evaders that plague r/conspiracy. Seems like half the commenters in this sub are under a month old.
http://www.reddit.com/user/dennabebotnoos
user for 9 days, acts like he's very familiar with this sub's modding practices
someone should report him to admins, right?
I was one of the first few hundred subscribers to /r/conspiracy.
Learned a lot, thoroughly enjoyed the fringe.
Had lost all interest over a year ago because of the rules and the blatant racism. Hebdo happened and I returned, but reddit in general and this sub are clearly not what they used to be.
I was snagged on a rule that didn't exist 6 days ago and I had no idea it existed.
Using an alt to comment in a sub you've been banned from (in my case SRD) will now get your accounts banned from reddit by the admins. Rest assured that conspiracy will benefit from this new reddit law more than most.
Yeah I think I'm caught up in the Flytape Drama™ for now. The rule is interesting though.
Is there any way for mods to know that stuff though? I would think it would have to be via IP addresses or something (for the alts) and feel that kind of information would be admin-level, not mod-level. But I am probably mistaken.
For what it is worth (considering you know nothing of me), I think the fact you rile up /r/conspiratard and /r/subredditdrama is a good sign but in this game of smoke and mirrors who knows what level of poker anyone is playing.
54 comments
8 Poiluv 2015-01-27
No
-13 Flytape 2015-01-27
Thanks for your concern.
No, I didn't know too much. I went to SRD because I get a shot ton of username mentions from that sub, so I used an alt account to "defend myself" and laugh at the circle jerk. I had to use an alt because I'm banned from that sub, and using an alt to evade a subreddit ban is apparently grounds for a shadow ban.
I did not know this, but now I do. I have been unbanned and everything is right with the world.
38 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
Were you worried after your ban that non-racists would once again be free to express themselves in this subreddit?
-17 28DansLater 2015-01-27
That's an extremely low blow. Flytape seems like an okay guy.
16 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
I strongly disagree on both counts.
4 ltjboy03 2015-01-27
Based on what? His comment history?
Well by that same logic he also seems like a bigot prick.
Also, I think you might be exaggerating juuust a bit when you say it's an "extremely low blow"
-22 Flytape 2015-01-27
Non racist are free to participate here in any way that doesn't involve attacking another user, they always have been.
21 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
Do you consider telling someone their words are racist a personal attack?
21 TheFapp3ning 2015-01-27
I can assure you that he does. You can attack a group of people, like saying all black people are dumb, But you can't attack a single person, like a single racist, by calling them a racist (even if they admit they are one), because that's personal and only a meanie would do that :(.
4 d3northway 2015-01-27
Can't hurt an idea, but idealists... They bleed.
-17 Flytape 2015-01-27
Its possible to do that without making it personal but that requires one to have extraordinary tact.
Unless you're 100% confident that your comment isn't just a fancy worded personal attack I would recommend that you just stick to the subject at hand and forget about the user.
21 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
If a racist didn't want to be called a racist they should not have said something racist. If they are confident that what they said is not racist they should be able to defend themselves and convey that.
Why do you feel it is important to protect the feelings of those who hold abhorrent, hateful opinions while turning a blind eye in situations in which other rules are broken? the rule against shill accusations being a prime example.
-14 Flytape 2015-01-27
We definitely act on shill accusations.
As far as racism goes. Reality is racist sometimes. Thus we must be able to discuss it. We can not ignore the elephant in the room.
Conspiracy exists to discuss these unpopular ideas. So we do not appreciate social punishment for people doing exactly what they are supposed to do here.
If we draw a line on what is too offensive to discuss here then we may as well draw 12 of them. If we allow users to be attacked for racism then we must define racism, which causes us to draw more lines, and then someone is also offended about dead children being discussed and they want to attack people for that too. Then its feminism and MRAs and then we can't talk about this or that or the other.
Then the SJWs control the conversation, not the actual community.
So we draw no lines except on how you are expected to behave here. We moderate behavior and not content.
12 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
I have never once seen someone be warned or banned for a shill accusation. And they occur in nearly every thread in which a user posts a dissenting opinion.
How can you go on a diatribe about free speech regarding the use of words or language while defending the right to ban those who make statements you don't like, such as racism accusations?
Do you not see the contradiction?
Edit: Your attempt to differentiate behaviour and content is a bullshit excuse. You selectively ban that which you don't like.
-5 Flytape 2015-01-27
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2t6147/isis_japanese_captives_violate_laws_of_physics_by/cnw58yy?context=3
I absolutely ban for shill accusations.
The reason you don't hear about it because the people accusing others of being shills don't report back to SRD or some other metareddit to complain about it. You're only hearing one half of the story.
6 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
No. I am going into threads and seeing comments with users straight out calling other people shills as a means of discrediting them. I am on a phone so linking is difficult, but it is likely unnecessary considering I have a feeling you know how prevalent it is.
Then there are all the times people are called sheep, government apologists, useful idiots etc. Never enforced.
You seem to be dodging some of my questions so I'll cut to the chase. Why do you think it is appropriate to selectively limit free speech according to your own biases?
-4 Flytape 2015-01-27
We are outnumbered here on reddit. If we were to allow this place to be absolutely no holds barred, it would not be a conspiracy sub it would look more like conspiratard.
This sub if FOR talking about conspiracies, its NOT FOR harassing people who want to talk about conspiracies. So do we enforce the rules in favor of people who show a genuine interest in conspiracy theories? Absolutely we do. Do we outright ignore rules violations by people who show genuine interest in conspiracy theories? No we don't. Our bias leans in the favor of people who show genuine interest in conspiracy theories, as it should. Anyone who wants it to be a different way has their own reasons for being here and has no genuine interest in conspiracy theories.
We aren't required to let people come here and shit on this community for the sake of fairness.
6 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
My question was:
"Why do you think it is appropriate to selectively limit free speech according to your own biases?"
You've actually answered it quite well. Your explanation perfectly demonstrates the method you use silence those you disagree with.
By selectively enforcing the rules based on your own definitions of "genuine interest" you essentially give yourself Carte-Blanche to ban anyone who disagrees with you. See, on my other account, I would likely fall under someone you would label as an individual who shits on this subreddit. In reality, I have a very keen interest in conspiracy theories, I just happen not to believe in many of them. So I debate people here and question motives and conclusions. Using loosely defined rules and language allows you to do whatever you want. As a result, genuine skeptics are scared away or banned.
You are exactly what this sub-reddit claims to hate, but on a smaller scale. An individual who exercises control in their position of power to enforce a specific worldview. Someone who uses the rules and system to their own ends while labelling any who might oppose as a dissenter sent from a rival faction to disrupt the peace.
-2 trinsic-paridiom 2015-01-27
Sounds like you just twisted what he said. The gist of it is:
This isn't Flytypes personal vendetta against anyone, this is what a mod is suppose to do in this community, keep discussions on track, if you dont like it, you don't have to be here. The fact that you are here and dont agree with this is very suggestive as to your motives.
5 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
That is true. The problem is that there is a blatant double standard. Shill accusations, claims of people being sheep are never, ever enforced. In fact, Flytape often takes part in those himself. But the second you dare imply something someone said is racist... here comes the banhammer. So...
It absolutely is. It is selective enforcement of the rules to fit an agenda. You are following what you should be here to fight.
-3 Flytape 2015-01-27
Meh, think what you want just follow the rules.
6 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
Do you not have a response to my assessment of your moderating strategy and related abuses of power?
5 Burn-Account 2015-01-27
Because he does not give a shit. As long as he has his little peons to follow him and believe every stupid word out of his mouth, why not just keep chugging along?
-6 trinsic-paridiom 2015-01-27
Attacks on character, If I was mod this is the kind of stuff I would ban for.
-4 trinsic-paridiom 2015-01-27
There are no abuse of power, its simply a matter of removing people that don't contribute to /r/conspiracy in a meaningful fashion. Don't like it, don't stay.
2 _dea 2015-01-27
Should we assess this comment as expected behaviour or as content?
Serious question, I would like to mend my ways, content-wise.
-2 Goatsac 2015-01-27
Welcome back.
-2 trinsic-paridiom 2015-01-27
Exactly, If all someone is going to do is try and derail conversations with stupid attacks on a person's character and not focus on what makes a conspiracy or not then you dont belong in r/conspiracy.
6 _dea 2015-01-27
We'll keep that in mind.
-9 Flytape 2015-01-27
Okay great.
3 _dea 2015-01-27
My content was sarcastic.
plus: what /u/dennabebotnoos said.
2 tusko01 2015-01-27
is calling someone an SJW a personal attack?
5 dejenerate 2015-01-27
It shouldn't be, it should actually be something to be proud of, but in the context in which he's using it? Yes, absolutely.
0 Bloodyfinger 2015-01-27
Sooooo..... The answer is no?
1 shadowofashadow 2015-01-27
Well it's good to have you back at least.
1 Flytape 2015-01-27
Thanks! It was mildly entertaining to see a bunch of people in conspiracy who have literally never participated here, pretending to be community members and singing the praises of my demise.
As if conspiracy members of all people wouldn't notice these non-regulars.
-1 shadowofashadow 2015-01-27
I noticed that as well. It's funny how transparent they can be.
1 [deleted] 2015-01-27
[deleted]
2 oldguynewname 2015-01-27
Mention sandy hook and be very descriptive and watch what ones show up.
0 EnoughNoLibsSpam 2015-01-27
They dont like it when we talk about crisis actors.
1 oldguynewname 2015-01-27
No they don't like it because personal info has been posted many many times and after the Boston bombing fiasco they would rather it be forgotten and hive mind of conspiracy be directed at something constructive.
1 oldguynewname 2015-01-27
So wait... if you click on a link form that bot and dont vote on a comment and just make your own its grounds for a ban?
Makes me wonder if there is a mod within srd that is also and admin just to ban people. I mean wtf why cant you at the very least face your accusers and defend your position?
1 Flytape 2015-01-27
No they banned /u/flytape years ago for telling the truth about SRD circlejerking in SRD. I used a different account /u/fiytape to defend myself in there. By using a different account to evade a ban, I brought this shadow ban on myself.
The admins unbanned me because it was pretty obvious that I was summoned there by username mention like 20 times. The mods of SRD likely reported me for ban evasion.
I've agreed to not comment in SRD from any account in the future.
1 oldguynewname 2015-01-27
Ban evasion? Ok well if that's what they say then that's the rule..
3 TheGhostOfDusty 2015-01-27
And if ban evasion is truly a shadowbannable offense, admins have a lot of work to do with the ban evaders that plague r/conspiracy. Seems like half the commenters in this sub are under a month old.
In this thread alone:
http://www.reddit.com/user/Poiluv
user for 28 days, only used to participate in this sub (and shits on it)
http://www.reddit.com/user/dennabebotnoos
user for 9 days, acts like he's very familiar with this sub's modding practices
someone should report him to admins, right?
http://www.reddit.com/user/_dea
user for 1 month, only participates in this sub to shit on it
http://www.reddit.com/user/TheFapp3ning
user for 5 months, only activity is in this subreddit to bitch and moan about it
admins, get crackin!
1 oldguynewname 2015-01-27
raises eyebrow
-1 _dea 2015-01-27
I was one of the first few hundred subscribers to /r/conspiracy.
Learned a lot, thoroughly enjoyed the fringe.
Had lost all interest over a year ago because of the rules and the blatant racism. Hebdo happened and I returned, but reddit in general and this sub are clearly not what they used to be.
/nostalgia
0 JamesColesPardon 2015-01-27
Welcome back.
0 Flytape 2015-01-27
Thanks man,
I was snagged on a rule that didn't exist 6 days ago and I had no idea it existed.
Using an alt to comment in a sub you've been banned from (in my case SRD) will now get your accounts banned from reddit by the admins. Rest assured that conspiracy will benefit from this new reddit law more than most.
0 JamesColesPardon 2015-01-27
Yeah I think I'm caught up in the Flytape Drama™ for now. The rule is interesting though.
Is there any way for mods to know that stuff though? I would think it would have to be via IP addresses or something (for the alts) and feel that kind of information would be admin-level, not mod-level. But I am probably mistaken.
1 Flytape 2015-01-27
Its admins level.
1 fdij 2015-01-27
For what it is worth (considering you know nothing of me), I think the fact you rile up /r/conspiratard and /r/subredditdrama is a good sign but in this game of smoke and mirrors who knows what level of poker anyone is playing.
1 Flytape 2015-01-27
True that.
1 SquareHimself 2015-01-27
Welcome back. :)
0 28DansLater 2015-01-27
Welcome back.
21 dennabebotnoos 2015-01-27
Do you consider telling someone their words are racist a personal attack?