Holocaust denial posts are pretty common here. Sometimes they get quite popular. One time, a holocaust denial movie was stickied and Hitler's face was proudly displayed on the sidebar.
Nothing that highly upvoted user said in response to the top comment seemed untrue. Holocaust Denial is popular here. There are some users who refer to it as a "holohoax".
Are you just mad that users are pointing out realities about this subreddit?
Hitler's face was proudly displayed on the sidebar.
Adolf Hitler was featured on the front page of Time magazine when his beliefs were well-known. There are numerous documentaries specifically about Hitler featured on the History/Military channel, yet both of these media maintain their prestige.
That particular 'Documentary of the Month' vote was brigaded by 4chan. The mods have traditionally featured the winning movies cover on the sidebar, a policy that was in place long before TGSNT was voted on. There was significant outcry (suspected brigade) among the community, and the mods eventually found 'compromise' and chose a different picture from the film cover, despite it being an original piece by an Israeli-Jewish artist.
There are T-shirts with a print of Che Guevara's face sold and worn worldwide, despite the fact that he was (contested as) a mass murderer. Few individuals regard figures such as Genghis Khan and Julius Caesar as "respectable", despite one being known for a genocide of 10% of the human population, and the other for almost ethnically cleansing the Gauls. Such people are not regarded as scum for believing so in today's day and age.
Some people idolize historical figures simply due to their influence on the world, be it subjective or objective. Beliefs don't make a person 'bad'. Actions do.
Nothing that highly upvoted user said in response to the top comment seemed untrue.
Really? Take a look at our front page, The "highly upvoted user" made a blanket statement about this sub, I don't happen to see any such "highly upvoted" posts corroborating their claim. Especially not on a daily mean.
'Conspiracy theorists' have become a punching bag of society, a crutch for people to ridicule knowing that there is little recourse in their defense. The madness of crowds and desire to scapegoat is far more alluring than maintaining a patience and scanning through a community like this to find like-minded individuals and insightful dialogue. That is the problem with Reddit.
Overall, I'd say the majority of people today do not have an absolute trust in their Governmental system, but are often quick to label specific criticism of that 'system' as "conspiracy bullshit" simply so they can shield themselves from the same treatment while feeling confident of the former.
Hitler's face was proudly displayed on the sidebar.
Was context of dennabebotnoos's comment. I was addressing that vague issue directly. /r/conspiracy was no more than a medium in that instance as we did not make the film.
There are T-shirts with a print of Che Guevara's face sold and worn worldwide, despite the fact that he was (contested as) a mass murderer. Few individuals regard figures such as Genghis Khan and Julius Caesar as "respectable", despite one being known for a genocide of 10% of the human population, and the other for almost ethnically cleansing the Gauls. Such people are not regarded as scum for believing so in today's day and age.
The film, and plenty of other posts on this subreddit don't just discuss positive aspects of the Nazi regime or discuss certain achievements, they actively look to make excuses for Hitler's actions (blaming the Jews for their own suffering in the Holocaust no less) or try to downplay the significance of the Holocaust as much as they can. Also, who in the hell idolizes Genghis Khan?
Really? Take a look at our front page, The "highly upvoted user" made a blanket statement about this sub, I don't happen to see any such "highly upvoted" posts corroborating their claim. Especially not on a daily mean.
This is what I found when I searched "Holocaust" in this sub. Plenty of upvoted denier posts, including an AMA from a Holocaust Denier (Yes, I know that guy is Jewish).
'Conspiracy theorists' have become a punching bag of society, a crutch for people to ridicule knowing that there is little recourse in their defense. The madness of crowds and desire to scapegoat is far more alluring than maintaining a patience and scanning through a community like this to find like-minded individuals and insightful dialogue. That is the problem with Reddit.
To be honest, a large portion of conspiracy theorists believe really silly things. When Alex Jones, David Icke and Mike Adams are as popular as they are, do you really expect the general public not to have a negative idea regarding theorists (right or wrong)?
Overall, I'd say the majority of people today do not have an absolute trust in their Governmental system, but are often quick to label specific criticism of that 'system' as "conspiracy bullshit" simply so they can shield themselves from the same treatment while feeling confident of the former.
I would agree that most people are skeptical of the government. Personally, I think that they label specific criticisms as "conspiracy bullshit" because they believe that those specific criticisms are not relevant.
The link you provided clearly occurred after the documentary was selected
This is patently false. The brigade in fact happened before the voting thread. It wasn't the last time they tried it either. Ask the mods for details.
and plenty of other posts on this subreddit don't just discuss positive aspects of the Nazi regime or discuss certain achievements, they actively look to make excuses for Hitler's actions (blaming the Jews for their own suffering in the Holocaust no less)
Show me the sources for this if it occurs in such a sheer magnitude. Again, look at our current front page.
who in the hell idolizes Genghis Khan?
People who respect military history?
Yes, I know that guy is Jewish
He also doesn't deny that the Holocaust happened. Just that certain aspects of it were exaggerated.
This subreddit brings a wide-variety of users with differing worldviews. So I fail to see the point of highlighting what the Reddit hive-mind holds in contempt as the worst.
do you really expect the general public not to have a negative idea regarding theorists
I don't expect anything. I wish people had the sense to otherwise ignore ideas they find "silly" if they are incapable of contemplating the impossible without accepting it as their own beliefs. I wish that people could collectively determine what it is that ails society, and remedy it. I wish for a pipe-dream.
they believe that those specific criticisms are not relevant.
I was vague for a reason. Without context you could assume I was referring to something regarded as outlandish such as "reptilian humanoids" etc., whereas I could have been referring to anything along the lines of nefarious programs like MK Ultra, Op Mockingbird or even the recent NSA/Five Eyes leaks.
The counter-claim to that last part is taht it was common knowledge beforehand, but I don't see how considering the sheer volume of Intel being released that corroborates what IIRC used to fall under paranoia.
Social media has changed significantly since the Bush-era wiretapping that was declassified under The PATRIOT Act.
This is patently false. The brigade in fact happened before the voting thread. It wasn't the last time they tried it either. Ask the mods for details.
I can only speak to what I see on my screen, and what I see is a screen shot in the OP of the conspiracy front page with Hitler's face already in the sidebar. Wouldn't that mean after the vote? I could be wrong on this.
Show me the sources for this if it occurs in such a sheer magnitude. Again, look at our current front page.
From what I understand, AATA linked an archived 4chan post after the brigade occurred, but the responses below the comment you're referring to pre-date the documentary voting results thread. You can corroborate all of this with him or /u/axolotl_peyotl.
Didn't include things like all the instances where Jews were blamed for just about everything
That uh, wouldn't be because you couldn't find any, or? If ever someone has said it, I doubt it would be a fair consensus. It's a tad hyperbolic IMHO.
[...]
I can't say who those users are to a certainty IRL, they could be trolls, or legit. I don't think it matters either way because people are people and I like hearing insight on topics with which I may or may not agree. Burn me with em' for that if you must, I just refuse to pretend they're a majority.
Secondly, this Daily Stormer situation technically demonstrates (to me at least) that this subreddit is the target of many a brigade.
That uh, wouldn't be because you couldn't find any, or? If ever someone has said it, I doubt it would be a fair consensus. It's a tad hyperbolic IMHO.
Seriously? Are you gunna make me source that one? I will, but shit, have you ever read anything in this sub?
I can't say who those users are to a certainty IRL, they could be trolls, or legit. I don't think it matters either way because people are people and I like hearing insight on topics with which I may or may not agree. Burn me with em' for that if you must, I just refuse to pretend they're a majority.
I never said they were a majority, a just said there was a significant number of them.
Secondly, this Daily Stormer situation technically demonstrates (to me at least) that this subreddit is the target of many a brigade.
It's also evidence that there was enough support here to justify using this as a recruiting ground.
I lurk here every day. The regulars can assure you they know me. Like I said, what you're suggesting is hyperbole.
Contextually when you say "the Jews", Devils advocate: I think they're typically referring to what they believe is a modern-day Power structure that is equivalent to the Roman Catholic Papal states or the Islamic Caliphate of the Abbasid Empire. Only one of 'Judaic' origins.
I don't think they honestly believe every average to poor Jewish person on the street is "responsible for the worlds problems". It's a taboo conspiracy theory of epic proportions, and we simply don't censor it for that.
Don't ask me if I believe this because I haven't got a fucking clue how the world truly operates in it's entirety or if it even does.
I never said they were a majority, a just said there was a significant number of them.
Then what is the purpose of showcasing them? The mods do enforce rule 1, so given what I've highlighted above, I don't see why people get so outraged by what we allow here.
It's also evidence that there was enough support here to justify using this as a recruiting ground.
I think you mistake support for what could easily be a philosophical interest on a variety of taboo subjects. Not the entrancement embracement* of them.
Yes, I'm well aware that you guys like to try and frame what you are doing as revisionism, pretending like you have some noble goal to get the historical record straight. It's bullshit.
I am aware that you don't deny every aspect of the holocaust, just the parts you think you might be able to get away with. Have you ever picked up an actual history book? Or read some literature that wasn't written by a Neo-Nazi? Have you ever fact-checked those claims or discussed the issues with anyone actually qualified? Or did you find these sites and accept them because they allowed you to hold a position that was opposite the norm and allowed you keep your bigoted views guilt free? After all, all actual historical record of the Holocaust is a Jewish lie right? Isn't that what they told you? And of course, like a good little Nazi, I'm sure you believed everything they told you.
Your Hitler loving educators failed you. They are wrong, and they always will be wrong. Sorry. Go learn how the historical consensus on the Holocaust was reached. Go read the thousands of primary sources that Stormfront didn't link you.
'Conspiracy theorists' have become a punching bag of society, a crutch for people to ridicule knowing that there is little recourse in their defense. The madness of crowds and desire to scapegoat is far more alluring than maintaining a patience and scanning through a community like this to find like-minded individuals and insightful duologue. That is the problem with Reddit.
Reframe. The sheeple are cheering the conspiratards on (oh, how I wish I could simply have said "they" and "us", but it is not so) to finally do something, get their evidence together and present it in an undebunkable manner. What may sound like mockery is essentially a cry for help in a world too complex, insane and shizoid to comprehend if you simply don't have the time, background or opportunity to delve into the tiresome process of fact-checking and actual thinking. These sheeple will be the first to baa they always knew something was wrong with the official story once it becomes common knowledge that indeed, we've been lied to; and still will mock the conspiratards who then proceed - instead of going all toldyaso over them - to dismantle the next historical Potemkin village.
I'm young, yet I remember how it was an outrageous, silly, stupid, tinfoil crackpot nutjob conspiracy theory in the 90ies that the manufacturers of light bulbs artificially shorten the life span of their products so they can sell more of their stuff. Today, there is a Wikipedia article on their cartel; it is not out of the question that in a few years, there will be a 9/11_False_Flag or Moon_Hoax article or that the article on the Shoah more accurately represents what really happened and why; but I doubt any of these users will send a PM apologizing for their stupid insults.
It's what we choose to do, gotta live with it, and make the best of it - less complainin', more troofin' :-)
Overall, I'd say the majority of people today do not have an absolute trust in their Governmental system, but are often quick to label specific criticism of that 'system' as "conspiracy bullshit" simply so they can shield themselves from the same treatment while feeling confident of the former.
And that's why. Do you still remember how that diffuse feeling something is wrong ("the splinter in your head driving you mad") changed and became a certainty? They feel the splinter, you touch it, it hurts them, of course they lash out - against you, not the splinter. It hurts to have it drawn. Can't fault them for being afraid.
//edit: out of interest, not because I care for karma: why is this being downvoted?
but I doubt any of these users will send a PM apologizing for their stupid insults.
Sadly, I fear they will (subconsciously) teach their children to behave in the same manner as reaction to future cataclysms. I tend to agree that it is a cycle that is bound to repeat, or a 'chemical reaction' that is difficult to undue.
of course they lash out - against you, not the splinter. It hurts to have it drawn. Can't fault them for being afraid.
This shit right here is why I have such a problem with all this hatred of anyone construed as 'conspiracy theorist'. There are bigger problems, corruption of power and endless greed, yet it seems to me like the 'theorists' take more flak.
Fear goes hand in hand with denial. I take solace in that it is a growing movement parallel to the expanding powers of Government.
There is a theory that somehow developed organically in a discussion with a fellow redditor over at /r/skeptic. It still waits to be formulated in a nice manner, but the tl;dr is that actually, conspiratards and sheeple both serve a valuable purpose in the grand scheme of things. There will always be those who unquestioningly follow every stupid trend and couldn't actually care less whether our planet is flat, a sphere or a potato as long as they have easy answers to a complicated question, and those who wrap themselves in several layers of tinfoil armor to protect their independent and uncomfortable thinking. It's a naturally evolved system of checks and balances.
This is not to say, of course, that it would not be preferable - for both sides of the argument - if the discussions were a little more respectful and honest and a little less filled with intentional disinfo, outright lies and personal insults, but alas, it's the internet, what's one to expect.
if the discussions were a little more respectful and honest and a little less filled with intentional disinfo, outright lies and personal insults, but alas, it's the internet, what's one to expect.
I like to look at it as a clear water river that flows through an industrial area where there is toxic waste discharge. Eventually the toxicity rises and the pollution spreads all neighboring bodies until it is no longer habitable.
While not required, you are requested to use the NP domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.
There are several tactics being used here in order to achieve a goal. I posted this as a reference to those who enjoy analyzing exactly how the opposition works.
This thread is a continuation of that same reference as there will be an influx of users posting in this thread who will also be analyzed.
Discussion topics are only fuel for the experiment. That which is observed and analyzed are the responses and movement of users.
Honeypots can be not only reverse engineered but used by the opposition.
What opposition? What evidence do you have that anyone there is some agent sent to discredit the sub. Some dude points out holocaust denial is common here (it is) and other users discuss this.
To most people not familiar with the subject, holocaust denial/revisionism seems shocking and disgusting.
It isn't until they read the words of Deniers/Revisionists that they realize that their initial impression was completely accurate. So essentially everyone rightfully dislikes holocaust deniers and tends to dislike communities that house a lot of them. If that bothers you, take it up with the people posting that type of content here.
Just because someone (like me) thinks that holocause denial is ridiculous considering that many people (like me) know someone in their family who died in nazi concentration camps. And it isn't jut Jews. Homosexuals and mentally challenged people also.
Nobody, anywhere, ever, has denied that concentration camps existed and that a countless number of Jews (and other minorities targeted by the Nazis) died in those camps. The points of contention are how many died, why they died, and how they died.
Zionist history books include every single history book not written by Neo-Nazis? Man, those must be some busy zionists, paying off millions of historians world-wide!
Why is the Holocaust uniquely above suspicion? This sub is about discussing conspiracy, end of story. There is no racial motivation here.
I think it further illustrates the point that there is an actual agenda to keep this topic off the table when threads or comments like this come up that attempt to paint conversation as "slanderous to the community."
This place is, or at least has been, the last bastion of uncensored conversation on Reddit.
Why is the Holocaust uniquely above suspicion? This sub is about discussing conspiracy, end of story. There is no racial motivation here.
I think a lot of people would flip the question around and ask why is the holocaust uniquely in suspicion. There have been numerous mass killings and genocides that have occurred during the 20th century. The Rwandan genocide, the Holodomor, the killing fields of Cambodia, hell even the other ~5 million non-Jews that are also claimed to have been killed by the Nazis. What about the Holocaust makes people question its veracity more than the others?
What about the Holocaust makes people question its veracity more than the others?
The holocaust has indirectly shaped the entire world from the 20th century onwards. Israel would not exist without it, the middle east would look entirely different today, and the global political situation would not exist as it does right now.
Much like 9/11 (which, most likely, also wouldn't have happened if a post-1945 "safe haven" hadn't been established), it's all about the impact, and not so much about the event or the death toll itself.
As I pointed out to someone else who brought this up, thats pretty circular. People question the veracity of it because its illegal to question the veracity of it? This take also doesn't really explain the genesis of holocaust denial. The laws were put in place to stem the tide of holocaust denial not the other way around.
Yeah, but young people have been drinking long before alcohol has been in law. Thats why they made a law. While the allure of the illegal make explain a little bit of alcohol's popularity among young people, the vast majority of its popularity must be attributable to other reasons.
In the same vein, holocaust denial was in full swing long before the laws were in place. Its also popular in America where there are no laws against it. These laws were put in place in the early 90's. Well after the holocaust denial movement had started. The laws, right or wrong, were intended to stem this tide. It didn't create it.
Your argument is circular in that it says holocaust denial is prevalent because of laws and attitudes that were formed because holocaust denial is so prevalent.
Its seems like you what you're stating is largely based on intituition and isn't really backed up by facts. Even the alcohol part. Is there anything you can point to and say "see this backs up what I'm saying". Here's why I don't think what you're saying is right:
A) Holocaust denialism (or revisionism or whatever you want to call it) was gaining popularity before the laws and continued to do so after the laws were put in place. They continued to grow in popular with no dramatic change compared to before the laws were put in place and compared to other countries (such as the America, UK, Greece, Iran) where no such laws exist. In other words, its hard to see any effect of these laws. I know that you said that the laws just explain part of holocaust denial's popularity but I would contend that even is unsupported.
B) The idea of "the allure of the illegal" is an attractive idea, but isn't really substantiated by facts. Alcohol consumption did indeed go down during prohibition and all signs point to a small uptick in marijuana usage since legalization. It turns out that the idea you're speaking of is called the Forbidden Fruit Theory and it isn't well supported by the evidence. From a cursory reading about it, what people find is that prohibiting something causes people to report that they want something more but it doesn't actually change behavior.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating any prohibition on anything. I'm pretty big on personal liberties especially free speech.
What about the Holocaust makes people question its veracity more than the others?
It is the only event which has generated its own socially acceptable brand of hate epithets which go unchecked. Specifically, this one: anti-semitic holocaust denier. <-- This is legitimized hatred resulting from this event. No other event has legitimized hatred as much as this one.
That argument is circular. People question the veracity of the holocaust because there is an epithet for people who question the veracity of he holocaust?
Your original question included "more than others". Rephrasing my response without that specification is, in addition to being very tacky, somewhat manipulative and underhanded. It's not as if all human slaughters happened simultaneously and this one magically emerged because of the condition I stated in my comment. Quite the contrary... "the holocaust" has a life of its own and most people commenting on/about it or otherwise inquiring into the topic are doing so well after the event, well after an official narrative has been created, and well after a legitimized hate epithet has been created surrounding it. <-- My assertion is that for this reason it is now more questioned than the others you mentioned.
I'll leave my earlier comment as I wrote it and ask you not to revise your inquiries in future interactions with me, scumbag.
I know that but I think we can agree that at least it involves questioning the "official narrative" which seems so to be unique to the Holocaust among other genocides. Also there exists a subset that make much stronger claims than the ones you listed. The person I replied to claimed elsewhere that only 6 thousand Jews were killed.
The last time I really investigated it, I read that no proof could be found of anything more than 30,000. They said if you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things, you could go as high as 100,000. But even that was based on nothing more than hearsay.
But they had "6 GAZILLION" planned as early as 1912.
No other slime on this planet has ever been that manipulative.
How more blatantly overt can you be in your attempt at hijacking the conversation? This isn't about holocaust denial. This is about censorship through slander. Take that argument elsewhere.
I'm guessing you mean the flagellations bit and not the cock suckers bit.
The undeniable fact is though that time and again the 'Burnt Offering' is something that has been experienced by those who have given accounts of it as a mystical rather than a historical event (and that is being very very charitable to them).
Okay, all the people with the same collectively terrible and scarring experience just happened to lie about it all, and their stories happened to match up? Even though those people are from all over Europe? Not the mention the stories of the veterans who went over there?
Out of curiosity, what do you believe happened? How do you believe such a vast number of people died altogether over the span of those years? Do you not believe the stories of the American veterans either, the ones who fought over there and liberated those camps? Why do you believe Hitler killed himself?
Just curious about your thoughts on everything if you believe it didn't happen.
I dunno, sometimes I see posts where people say that they think the Boston bombing footage released is actually all CGI and that it was all actors and fake blood and shit and I'm like "Yeah I get why people make fun of this place."
Because those are people purposely trying to undermine the subreddit. And this subreddit is known to discuss all theories, and just because we discuss the possibility, makes it look like we all agree. This is merely a sub designed to question the narrative, and look for the truth. That is the only way to find the truth. To be open minded and question things, and logically sort through evidence and arguments, until a solution is found. This is basically the scientific method at work. Most people here don't recognize or realize it, but those in power do.
those are people purposely trying to undermine the subreddit
This was the subreddit that had a picture of Hitler on the sidebar after a holocaust denial documentary got stickied. Have you ever considered that this subreddits bad PR might be its own doing?
So everyone who ever makes fun of the silly aspects of this subreddit is "purposely trying to undermine the subreddit"? Not a single person is making fun of it because there are some whack ideas around here? Come on. Even you have to see some of the posts here as ridiculous.
So? That doesn't change my point. If there is a significant amount of people on r/pics that believe apples are the fruit of the devil then that means that people will make fun of /r/pics for that. A non-trivial number of people here on /r/conspiracy are Holocaust deniers and thus /r/conspiracy will be made fun of for that.
I simply said that it is stupid to immediately assume that this is a deliberate undermining of this subreddits credibility and this assumption is exactly the kind of paranoia this subreddit gets made fun of for.
I think it is more reasonable to believe that some people into conspiracies are as crazy as the haters say and that their are a lot of haters. They sort of fit together like hand in glove. We don't need a new conspiracy to explain people being dumb.
Why is that more reasonable? Black propagandists have been around for many decades, there's no doubt that they're on the internet as well. I'd say that it's a bit of both when it comes to this topic specifically.
Don't get confused into thinking that it has to do with people in this sub specifically. There are simply dumb, unthinking, uncritical humans in EVERY area and every walk of life...So why single out the idiots in this subreddit when there are just as many idiots outside of it? It's a moot point really and is a sign of people looking for things to castigate critical thinking on.
Yeah, some in "conspiracy" circles do make untenable claims. Some of those claims - as Ambiguously_Ironic correctly states - are made by people purposely muddying and soiling the waters. Others make untenable claims simply because they're idiots.
Those types exist outside of conspiracy circles as well, so it is entirely erroneous to somehow claim that since conspiracy circles have these types in them too, that conspiracy circles are "fully delusional" or whatever detractors try to claim.
When it trends top 10 Reddit front page, week in and week out and it's 2015, a blind man can see through the wall of agenda promoting, tugging at the heart of the masses, all the while each and everyone else, for the most part, have their own struggles just to get through the day, and are not considered special in any way, and never will be.
Why do we need to be reminded of the holocaust on a daily basis? Did not 7 million Chinese not get massacred by the Japanese? Did not the Russians kill half of eastern europe?
No only jews matter because they're the most important people in the world.
This isn't the first time this has happened. People who question authority, who think for themselves, have to be undermined, less the brainwashing be undone, and everyone start thinking freely again.
There is a theory that somehow developed organically in a discussion with a fellow redditor over at /r/skeptic. It still waits to be formulated in a nice manner, but the tl;dr is that actually, conspiratards and sheeple both serve a valuable purpose in the grand scheme of things. There will always be those who unquestioningly follow every stupid trend and couldn't actually care less whether our planet is flat, a sphere or a potato as long as they have easy answers to a complicated question, and those who wrap themselves in several layers of tinfoil armor to protect their independent and uncomfortable thinking. It's a naturally evolved system of checks and balances.
This is not to say, of course, that it would not be preferable - for both sides of the argument - if the discussions were a little more respectful and honest and a little less filled with intentional disinfo, outright lies and personal insults, but alas, it's the internet, what's one to expect.
From what I understand, AATA linked an archived 4chan post after the brigade occurred, but the responses below the comment you're referring to pre-date the documentary voting results thread. You can corroborate all of this with him or /u/axolotl_peyotl.
Didn't include things like all the instances where Jews were blamed for just about everything
That uh, wouldn't be because you couldn't find any, or? If ever someone has said it, I doubt it would be a fair consensus. It's a tad hyperbolic IMHO.
[...]
I can't say who those users are to a certainty IRL, they could be trolls, or legit. I don't think it matters either way because people are people and I like hearing insight on topics with which I may or may not agree. Burn me with em' for that if you must, I just refuse to pretend they're a majority.
Secondly, this Daily Stormer situation technically demonstrates (to me at least) that this subreddit is the target of many a brigade.
97 comments
51 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
Holocaust denial posts are pretty common here. Sometimes they get quite popular. One time, a holocaust denial movie was stickied and Hitler's face was proudly displayed on the sidebar.
Nothing that highly upvoted user said in response to the top comment seemed untrue. Holocaust Denial is popular here. There are some users who refer to it as a "holohoax".
Are you just mad that users are pointing out realities about this subreddit?
5 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
Adolf Hitler was featured on the front page of Time magazine when his beliefs were well-known. There are numerous documentaries specifically about Hitler featured on the History/Military channel, yet both of these media maintain their prestige.
That particular 'Documentary of the Month' vote was brigaded by 4chan. The mods have traditionally featured the winning movies cover on the sidebar, a policy that was in place long before TGSNT was voted on. There was significant outcry (suspected brigade) among the community, and the mods eventually found 'compromise' and chose a different picture from the film cover, despite it being an original piece by an Israeli-Jewish artist.
There are T-shirts with a print of Che Guevara's face sold and worn worldwide, despite the fact that he was (contested as) a mass murderer. Few individuals regard figures such as Genghis Khan and Julius Caesar as "respectable", despite one being known for a genocide of 10% of the human population, and the other for almost ethnically cleansing the Gauls. Such people are not regarded as scum for believing so in today's day and age.
Some people idolize historical figures simply due to their influence on the world, be it subjective or objective. Beliefs don't make a person 'bad'. Actions do.
Really? Take a look at our front page, The "highly upvoted user" made a blanket statement about this sub, I don't happen to see any such "highly upvoted" posts corroborating their claim. Especially not on a daily mean.
'Conspiracy theorists' have become a punching bag of society, a crutch for people to ridicule knowing that there is little recourse in their defense. The madness of crowds and desire to scapegoat is far more alluring than maintaining a patience and scanning through a community like this to find like-minded individuals and insightful dialogue. That is the problem with Reddit.
Overall, I'd say the majority of people today do not have an absolute trust in their Governmental system, but are often quick to label specific criticism of that 'system' as "conspiracy bullshit" simply so they can shield themselves from the same treatment while feeling confident of the former.
/Edited in sources/Hotlinks. I drink your downvotes.
6 ct_warlock 2015-03-13
Ha ha ha! Are you serious?
The selection for Time Person of the Year means they were the most influential person of that time, not because they were good.
-1 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
Was context of dennabebotnoos's comment. I was addressing that vague issue directly. /r/conspiracy was no more than a medium in that instance as we did not make the film.
-1 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
Oy Vey!
4 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
His beliefs maybe, but certainly not his future actions.
But they don't try to make excuses for genocide like the charming video that was featured on this sub.
The link you provided clearly occurred after the documentary was selected, not sure why you sourced it.
Furthermore, the thread regarding the doc was shows that it was supported by regular users with highly upvoted comments (http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2hczx1/adolf_hitler_the_greatest_story_never_told_2013/).
The film, and plenty of other posts on this subreddit don't just discuss positive aspects of the Nazi regime or discuss certain achievements, they actively look to make excuses for Hitler's actions (blaming the Jews for their own suffering in the Holocaust no less) or try to downplay the significance of the Holocaust as much as they can. Also, who in the hell idolizes Genghis Khan?
This is what I found when I searched "Holocaust" in this sub. Plenty of upvoted denier posts, including an AMA from a Holocaust Denier (Yes, I know that guy is Jewish).
To be honest, a large portion of conspiracy theorists believe really silly things. When Alex Jones, David Icke and Mike Adams are as popular as they are, do you really expect the general public not to have a negative idea regarding theorists (right or wrong)?
I would agree that most people are skeptical of the government. Personally, I think that they label specific criticisms as "conspiracy bullshit" because they believe that those specific criticisms are not relevant.
1 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
This is patently false. The brigade in fact happened before the voting thread. It wasn't the last time they tried it either. Ask the mods for details.
Show me the sources for this if it occurs in such a sheer magnitude. Again, look at our current front page.
People who respect military history?
He also doesn't deny that the Holocaust happened. Just that certain aspects of it were exaggerated.
This subreddit brings a wide-variety of users with differing worldviews. So I fail to see the point of highlighting what the Reddit hive-mind holds in contempt as the worst.
I don't expect anything. I wish people had the sense to otherwise ignore ideas they find "silly" if they are incapable of contemplating the impossible without accepting it as their own beliefs. I wish that people could collectively determine what it is that ails society, and remedy it. I wish for a pipe-dream.
I was vague for a reason. Without context you could assume I was referring to something regarded as outlandish such as "reptilian humanoids" etc., whereas I could have been referring to anything along the lines of nefarious programs like MK Ultra, Op Mockingbird or even the recent NSA/Five Eyes leaks.
The counter-claim to that last part is taht it was common knowledge beforehand, but I don't see how considering the sheer volume of Intel being released that corroborates what IIRC used to fall under paranoia.
Social media has changed significantly since the Bush-era wiretapping that was declassified under The PATRIOT Act.
1 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
I can only speak to what I see on my screen, and what I see is a screen shot in the OP of the conspiracy front page with Hitler's face already in the sidebar. Wouldn't that mean after the vote? I could be wrong on this.
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2p277o/everybody_complains_about_the_international/
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2qhxxm/hitler_did_not_commit_suicide_only_400k_jews_died/
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2utjyx/winning_entry_in_iranian_holocaust_cartoon_contest/
http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2x4rio/as_an_iranian_its_shit_like_this_that_really/
Just a small sampling. Didn't include things like all the instances where Jews were blamed for just about everything etc.
The Neo-nazis themselves have identified this sub as a place for recruiting: https://archive.today/7lQiA
1 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
From what I understand, AATA linked an archived 4chan post after the brigade occurred, but the responses below the comment you're referring to pre-date the documentary voting results thread. You can corroborate all of this with him or /u/axolotl_peyotl.
That uh, wouldn't be because you couldn't find any, or? If ever someone has said it, I doubt it would be a fair consensus. It's a tad hyperbolic IMHO.
[...]
I can't say who those users are to a certainty IRL, they could be trolls, or legit. I don't think it matters either way because people are people and I like hearing insight on topics with which I may or may not agree. Burn me with em' for that if you must, I just refuse to pretend they're a majority.
Secondly, this Daily Stormer situation technically demonstrates (to me at least) that this subreddit is the target of many a brigade.
0 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
Seriously? Are you gunna make me source that one? I will, but shit, have you ever read anything in this sub?
I never said they were a majority, a just said there was a significant number of them.
It's also evidence that there was enough support here to justify using this as a recruiting ground.
3 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
I lurk here every day. The regulars can assure you they know me. Like I said, what you're suggesting is hyperbole.
Contextually when you say "the Jews", Devils advocate: I think they're typically referring to what they believe is a modern-day Power structure that is equivalent to the Roman Catholic Papal states or the Islamic Caliphate of the Abbasid Empire. Only one of 'Judaic' origins.
I don't think they honestly believe every average to poor Jewish person on the street is "responsible for the worlds problems". It's a taboo conspiracy theory of epic proportions, and we simply don't censor it for that.
Don't ask me if I believe this because I haven't got a fucking clue how the world truly operates in it's entirety or if it even does.
Then what is the purpose of showcasing them? The mods do enforce rule 1, so given what I've highlighted above, I don't see why people get so outraged by what we allow here.
I think you mistake support for what could easily be a philosophical interest on a variety of taboo subjects. Not the
entrancementembracement* of them.-1 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
You should read this and this
3 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
Yes, I'm well aware that you guys like to try and frame what you are doing as revisionism, pretending like you have some noble goal to get the historical record straight. It's bullshit.
I am aware that you don't deny every aspect of the holocaust, just the parts you think you might be able to get away with. Have you ever picked up an actual history book? Or read some literature that wasn't written by a Neo-Nazi? Have you ever fact-checked those claims or discussed the issues with anyone actually qualified? Or did you find these sites and accept them because they allowed you to hold a position that was opposite the norm and allowed you keep your bigoted views guilt free? After all, all actual historical record of the Holocaust is a Jewish lie right? Isn't that what they told you? And of course, like a good little Nazi, I'm sure you believed everything they told you.
Your Hitler loving educators failed you. They are wrong, and they always will be wrong. Sorry. Go learn how the historical consensus on the Holocaust was reached. Go read the thousands of primary sources that Stormfront didn't link you.
0 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH
found the buttblasted jew!
lmao
good one
2 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
And there's the true colors. No more, "we are just revisionists" it seems.
0 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
2 j-pHil 2015-03-13
Is this a one man conversation?
-5 Akareyon 2015-03-13
Reframe. The sheeple are cheering the conspiratards on (oh, how I wish I could simply have said "they" and "us", but it is not so) to finally do something, get their evidence together and present it in an undebunkable manner. What may sound like mockery is essentially a cry for help in a world too complex, insane and shizoid to comprehend if you simply don't have the time, background or opportunity to delve into the tiresome process of fact-checking and actual thinking. These sheeple will be the first to baa they always knew something was wrong with the official story once it becomes common knowledge that indeed, we've been lied to; and still will mock the conspiratards who then proceed - instead of going all toldyaso over them - to dismantle the next historical Potemkin village.
I'm young, yet I remember how it was an outrageous, silly, stupid, tinfoil crackpot nutjob conspiracy theory in the 90ies that the manufacturers of light bulbs artificially shorten the life span of their products so they can sell more of their stuff. Today, there is a Wikipedia article on their cartel; it is not out of the question that in a few years, there will be a 9/11_False_Flag or Moon_Hoax article or that the article on the Shoah more accurately represents what really happened and why; but I doubt any of these users will send a PM apologizing for their stupid insults.
It's what we choose to do, gotta live with it, and make the best of it - less complainin', more troofin' :-)
And that's why. Do you still remember how that diffuse feeling something is wrong ("the splinter in your head driving you mad") changed and became a certainty? They feel the splinter, you touch it, it hurts them, of course they lash out - against you, not the splinter. It hurts to have it drawn. Can't fault them for being afraid.
//edit: out of interest, not because I care for karma: why is this being downvoted?
2 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
And an excellent job you've done, at that.
Sadly, I fear they will (subconsciously) teach their children to behave in the same manner as reaction to future cataclysms. I tend to agree that it is a cycle that is bound to repeat, or a 'chemical reaction' that is difficult to undue.
This shit right here is why I have such a problem with all this hatred of anyone construed as 'conspiracy theorist'. There are bigger problems, corruption of power and endless greed, yet it seems to me like the 'theorists' take more flak.
Fear goes hand in hand with denial. I take solace in that it is a growing movement parallel to the expanding powers of Government.
2 Akareyon 2015-03-13
There is a theory that somehow developed organically in a discussion with a fellow redditor over at /r/skeptic. It still waits to be formulated in a nice manner, but the tl;dr is that actually, conspiratards and sheeple both serve a valuable purpose in the grand scheme of things. There will always be those who unquestioningly follow every stupid trend and couldn't actually care less whether our planet is flat, a sphere or a potato as long as they have easy answers to a complicated question, and those who wrap themselves in several layers of tinfoil armor to protect their independent and uncomfortable thinking. It's a naturally evolved system of checks and balances.
This is not to say, of course, that it would not be preferable - for both sides of the argument - if the discussions were a little more respectful and honest and a little less filled with intentional disinfo, outright lies and personal insults, but alas, it's the internet, what's one to expect.
2 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
I like to look at it as a clear water river that flows through an industrial area where there is toxic waste discharge. Eventually the toxicity rises and the pollution spreads all neighboring bodies until it is no longer habitable.
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2 Akareyon 2015-03-13
Bot, can you hear me?
0 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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-3 JaiOhBe 2015-03-13
Questioning fact= denial.
1 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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3 JaiOhBe 2015-03-13
The undeniable proof of the Holocaust by the living survivors?
0 whymotherfucker 2015-03-13
oy
-10 Balthanos 2015-03-13
This has nothing to do with anger or emotion.
There are several tactics being used here in order to achieve a goal. I posted this as a reference to those who enjoy analyzing exactly how the opposition works.
This thread is a continuation of that same reference as there will be an influx of users posting in this thread who will also be analyzed.
Discussion topics are only fuel for the experiment. That which is observed and analyzed are the responses and movement of users.
Honeypots can be not only reverse engineered but used by the opposition.
17 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
What opposition? What evidence do you have that anyone there is some agent sent to discredit the sub. Some dude points out holocaust denial is common here (it is) and other users discuss this.
To most people not familiar with the subject, holocaust denial/revisionism seems shocking and disgusting.
It isn't until they read the words of Deniers/Revisionists that they realize that their initial impression was completely accurate. So essentially everyone rightfully dislikes holocaust deniers and tends to dislike communities that house a lot of them. If that bothers you, take it up with the people posting that type of content here.
-4 deathbear 2015-03-13
people on said threads are calling all /r/conspiracy a bunch of loonies because of this, i can see where he's coming from.
5 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
Like I said, he should take that up with the people posting horrible things on this sub, not with the individuals discussing that fact.
0 TheCreepero 2015-03-13
Just because someone (like me) thinks that holocause denial is ridiculous considering that many people (like me) know someone in their family who died in nazi concentration camps. And it isn't jut Jews. Homosexuals and mentally challenged people also.
Am I a shill because of that?
4 Sabremesh 2015-03-13
Nobody, anywhere, ever, has denied that concentration camps existed and that a countless number of Jews (and other minorities targeted by the Nazis) died in those camps. The points of contention are how many died, why they died, and how they died.
1 AlreadyEnriched 2015-03-13
No one denies people dying in concentration camps. Doesn't seem like you even understand revisionist arguments.
Not surprised, close your eyes, put your fingers in your ears and scream.
-1 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
My whole family died in the holocaust
-4 bluntkillah 2015-03-13
ma niqqa, i aint even read ur whole post, just the first line but all imma say is u dum as FUK!!!
-10 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
Sounds like you read a lot of zionist "history" books instead of doing any critical thinking.
8 dennabebotnoos 2015-03-13
Zionist history books include every single history book not written by Neo-Nazis? Man, those must be some busy zionists, paying off millions of historians world-wide!
-5 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
Neat.png
9 Shillyourself 2015-03-13
Why is the Holocaust uniquely above suspicion? This sub is about discussing conspiracy, end of story. There is no racial motivation here.
I think it further illustrates the point that there is an actual agenda to keep this topic off the table when threads or comments like this come up that attempt to paint conversation as "slanderous to the community."
This place is, or at least has been, the last bastion of uncensored conversation on Reddit.
5 MIBPJ 2015-03-13
I think a lot of people would flip the question around and ask why is the holocaust uniquely in suspicion. There have been numerous mass killings and genocides that have occurred during the 20th century. The Rwandan genocide, the Holodomor, the killing fields of Cambodia, hell even the other ~5 million non-Jews that are also claimed to have been killed by the Nazis. What about the Holocaust makes people question its veracity more than the others?
1 zombieninja 2015-03-13
The holocaust has indirectly shaped the entire world from the 20th century onwards. Israel would not exist without it, the middle east would look entirely different today, and the global political situation would not exist as it does right now.
Much like 9/11 (which, most likely, also wouldn't have happened if a post-1945 "safe haven" hadn't been established), it's all about the impact, and not so much about the event or the death toll itself.
1 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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1 MIBPJ 2015-03-13
As I pointed out to someone else who brought this up, thats pretty circular. People question the veracity of it because its illegal to question the veracity of it? This take also doesn't really explain the genesis of holocaust denial. The laws were put in place to stem the tide of holocaust denial not the other way around.
1 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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1 MIBPJ 2015-03-13
Yeah, but young people have been drinking long before alcohol has been in law. Thats why they made a law. While the allure of the illegal make explain a little bit of alcohol's popularity among young people, the vast majority of its popularity must be attributable to other reasons.
In the same vein, holocaust denial was in full swing long before the laws were in place. Its also popular in America where there are no laws against it. These laws were put in place in the early 90's. Well after the holocaust denial movement had started. The laws, right or wrong, were intended to stem this tide. It didn't create it.
Your argument is circular in that it says holocaust denial is prevalent because of laws and attitudes that were formed because holocaust denial is so prevalent.
1 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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1 MIBPJ 2015-03-13
Its seems like you what you're stating is largely based on intituition and isn't really backed up by facts. Even the alcohol part. Is there anything you can point to and say "see this backs up what I'm saying". Here's why I don't think what you're saying is right:
A) Holocaust denialism (or revisionism or whatever you want to call it) was gaining popularity before the laws and continued to do so after the laws were put in place. They continued to grow in popular with no dramatic change compared to before the laws were put in place and compared to other countries (such as the America, UK, Greece, Iran) where no such laws exist. In other words, its hard to see any effect of these laws. I know that you said that the laws just explain part of holocaust denial's popularity but I would contend that even is unsupported.
B) The idea of "the allure of the illegal" is an attractive idea, but isn't really substantiated by facts. Alcohol consumption did indeed go down during prohibition and all signs point to a small uptick in marijuana usage since legalization. It turns out that the idea you're speaking of is called the Forbidden Fruit Theory and it isn't well supported by the evidence. From a cursory reading about it, what people find is that prohibiting something causes people to report that they want something more but it doesn't actually change behavior.
Just to be clear, I'm not advocating any prohibition on anything. I'm pretty big on personal liberties especially free speech.
0 PublicIntelAnalyst 2015-03-13
It is the only event which has generated its own socially acceptable brand of hate epithets which go unchecked. Specifically, this one: anti-semitic holocaust denier. <-- This is legitimized hatred resulting from this event. No other event has legitimized hatred as much as this one.
3 MIBPJ 2015-03-13
That argument is circular. People question the veracity of the holocaust because there is an epithet for people who question the veracity of he holocaust?
-2 PublicIntelAnalyst 2015-03-13
Your original question included "more than others". Rephrasing my response without that specification is, in addition to being very tacky, somewhat manipulative and underhanded. It's not as if all human slaughters happened simultaneously and this one magically emerged because of the condition I stated in my comment. Quite the contrary... "the holocaust" has a life of its own and most people commenting on/about it or otherwise inquiring into the topic are doing so well after the event, well after an official narrative has been created, and well after a legitimized hate epithet has been created surrounding it. <-- My assertion is that for this reason it is now more questioned than the others you mentioned.
I'll leave my earlier comment as I wrote it and ask you not to revise your inquiries in future interactions with me, scumbag.
-2 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
You should read this and this
2 MIBPJ 2015-03-13
I know that but I think we can agree that at least it involves questioning the "official narrative" which seems so to be unique to the Holocaust among other genocides. Also there exists a subset that make much stronger claims than the ones you listed. The person I replied to claimed elsewhere that only 6 thousand Jews were killed.
-1 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
The last time I really investigated it, I read that no proof could be found of anything more than 30,000. They said if you wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt on a lot of things, you could go as high as 100,000. But even that was based on nothing more than hearsay.
But they had "6 GAZILLION" planned as early as 1912.
No other slime on this planet has ever been that manipulative.
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5 C0nnman 2015-03-13
So you're saying you think the holocaust didn't happen?
-2 RedRager 2015-03-13
Watch the greatest story never told
-10 Balthanos 2015-03-13
How more blatantly overt can you be in your attempt at hijacking the conversation? This isn't about holocaust denial. This is about censorship through slander. Take that argument elsewhere.
17 C0nnman 2015-03-13
It was just a question douche bag.
11 TheCreepero 2015-03-13
What censorship? All the comments are still there.
-14 Talorca 2015-03-13
Burnt offerings get classed as mystical experiences. Especially when shit head messianic cock suckers are the ones leading the flagellations.
14 JustynCarter 2015-03-13
You sound like a 16 year old with a thesaurus.
-1 Talorca 2015-03-13
I'm guessing you mean the flagellations bit and not the cock suckers bit.
The undeniable fact is though that time and again the 'Burnt Offering' is something that has been experienced by those who have given accounts of it as a mystical rather than a historical event (and that is being very very charitable to them).
-19 RedditRevisionist 2015-03-13
It didn't happen
2 awindwaker 2015-03-13
Okay, all the people with the same collectively terrible and scarring experience just happened to lie about it all, and their stories happened to match up? Even though those people are from all over Europe? Not the mention the stories of the veterans who went over there?
Out of curiosity, what do you believe happened? How do you believe such a vast number of people died altogether over the span of those years? Do you not believe the stories of the American veterans either, the ones who fought over there and liberated those camps? Why do you believe Hitler killed himself?
Just curious about your thoughts on everything if you believe it didn't happen.
-2 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
You should read this and this
2 herpe_the_love_bump 2015-03-13
Such is life in the rabbit hole. Who cares.
Orthodoxy is unconsciousness
-7 Balthanos 2015-03-13
People who like to analyze tactics.
0 herpe_the_love_bump 2015-03-13
See anything new? Nope.
1 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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1 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
The undeniable genocide that lacks even a modicum of proof. Neat!
0 [deleted] 2015-03-13
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2 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
Nice comment history. Almost looks like the comment history you would expect to see from a JIDF shill. Why is that?
0 Sek101 2015-03-13
Just seen that TIL. Amazing! And the past keeps rearing its controversial, propagandiated head.
I'll take Psyops for $400, Alex!
-1 tishstars 2015-03-13
It is a common tactic to do this so that this subreddit's ideas get lumped into a "those crazy conspiracists" category
21 SatansAliens 2015-03-13
I dunno, sometimes I see posts where people say that they think the Boston bombing footage released is actually all CGI and that it was all actors and fake blood and shit and I'm like "Yeah I get why people make fun of this place."
0 Ago_Solvo 2015-03-13
Because those are people purposely trying to undermine the subreddit. And this subreddit is known to discuss all theories, and just because we discuss the possibility, makes it look like we all agree. This is merely a sub designed to question the narrative, and look for the truth. That is the only way to find the truth. To be open minded and question things, and logically sort through evidence and arguments, until a solution is found. This is basically the scientific method at work. Most people here don't recognize or realize it, but those in power do.
19 thenormalaccount 2015-03-13
This was the subreddit that had a picture of Hitler on the sidebar after a holocaust denial documentary got stickied. Have you ever considered that this subreddits bad PR might be its own doing?
-5 InternetPropagandist 2015-03-13
Try not lumping everyone in together with the mods. Maybe we all have different beliefs just like any other sub.
15 Lockjaw7130 2015-03-13
So everyone who ever makes fun of the silly aspects of this subreddit is "purposely trying to undermine the subreddit"? Not a single person is making fun of it because there are some whack ideas around here? Come on. Even you have to see some of the posts here as ridiculous.
1 InternetPropagandist 2015-03-13
I see ridiculous shit posted in every subreddit. It's almost as if many different people have different beliefs.
1 Lockjaw7130 2015-03-13
So? That doesn't change my point. If there is a significant amount of people on r/pics that believe apples are the fruit of the devil then that means that people will make fun of /r/pics for that. A non-trivial number of people here on /r/conspiracy are Holocaust deniers and thus /r/conspiracy will be made fun of for that.
I simply said that it is stupid to immediately assume that this is a deliberate undermining of this subreddits credibility and this assumption is exactly the kind of paranoia this subreddit gets made fun of for.
-7 mageganker 2015-03-13
The people trying to discredit this place could be posting garbage on alt accounts.
10 SatansAliens 2015-03-13
I think it is more reasonable to believe that some people into conspiracies are as crazy as the haters say and that their are a lot of haters. They sort of fit together like hand in glove. We don't need a new conspiracy to explain people being dumb.
4 Ambiguously_Ironic 2015-03-13
Why is that more reasonable? Black propagandists have been around for many decades, there's no doubt that they're on the internet as well. I'd say that it's a bit of both when it comes to this topic specifically.
2 no1113 2015-03-13
Don't get confused into thinking that it has to do with people in this sub specifically. There are simply dumb, unthinking, uncritical humans in EVERY area and every walk of life...So why single out the idiots in this subreddit when there are just as many idiots outside of it? It's a moot point really and is a sign of people looking for things to castigate critical thinking on.
Yeah, some in "conspiracy" circles do make untenable claims. Some of those claims - as Ambiguously_Ironic correctly states - are made by people purposely muddying and soiling the waters. Others make untenable claims simply because they're idiots.
Those types exist outside of conspiracy circles as well, so it is entirely erroneous to somehow claim that since conspiracy circles have these types in them too, that conspiracy circles are "fully delusional" or whatever detractors try to claim.
2 Cole7rain 2015-03-13
dude it's fucking /r/conspiracy, of course there are going to be crazy conspiracy theorists here.
There is also going to be sane conspiracy theorists.
This is the problem with reddit, the hivemind is so black & white on every issue.
HEY GUYS THIS ONE GUY THINKS MOLE PEOPLE RULE THE WORLD, THEREFORE EVERYONE ON /R/CONSPIRACY MUST BELIEVE THIS.
Also, why is it assumed that anyone who questions the holocaust must also be an anti-Semite?
-3 Lo0seR 2015-03-13
When it trends top 10 Reddit front page, week in and week out and it's 2015, a blind man can see through the wall of agenda promoting, tugging at the heart of the masses, all the while each and everyone else, for the most part, have their own struggles just to get through the day, and are not considered special in any way, and never will be.
-3 sickofallofyou 2015-03-13
Why do we need to be reminded of the holocaust on a daily basis? Did not 7 million Chinese not get massacred by the Japanese? Did not the Russians kill half of eastern europe?
No only jews matter because they're the most important people in the world.
-6 Ago_Solvo 2015-03-13
This isn't the first time this has happened. People who question authority, who think for themselves, have to be undermined, less the brainwashing be undone, and everyone start thinking freely again.
-7 [deleted] 2015-03-13
Personally, I'm proud of the holocaust denial on this sub
0 LOLHOLOHOAX 2015-03-13
IDS AHNUDDAH SHOAH!
2 Akareyon 2015-03-13
There is a theory that somehow developed organically in a discussion with a fellow redditor over at /r/skeptic. It still waits to be formulated in a nice manner, but the tl;dr is that actually, conspiratards and sheeple both serve a valuable purpose in the grand scheme of things. There will always be those who unquestioningly follow every stupid trend and couldn't actually care less whether our planet is flat, a sphere or a potato as long as they have easy answers to a complicated question, and those who wrap themselves in several layers of tinfoil armor to protect their independent and uncomfortable thinking. It's a naturally evolved system of checks and balances.
This is not to say, of course, that it would not be preferable - for both sides of the argument - if the discussions were a little more respectful and honest and a little less filled with intentional disinfo, outright lies and personal insults, but alas, it's the internet, what's one to expect.
1 Canadian_POG 2015-03-13
From what I understand, AATA linked an archived 4chan post after the brigade occurred, but the responses below the comment you're referring to pre-date the documentary voting results thread. You can corroborate all of this with him or /u/axolotl_peyotl.
That uh, wouldn't be because you couldn't find any, or? If ever someone has said it, I doubt it would be a fair consensus. It's a tad hyperbolic IMHO.
[...]
I can't say who those users are to a certainty IRL, they could be trolls, or legit. I don't think it matters either way because people are people and I like hearing insight on topics with which I may or may not agree. Burn me with em' for that if you must, I just refuse to pretend they're a majority.
Secondly, this Daily Stormer situation technically demonstrates (to me at least) that this subreddit is the target of many a brigade.