So you're thanking a guy who at least previously worked for the CIA (and most likely still does) for making conspiracy theories validated, when it was the CIA who literally weaponized the term conspiracy theory as a PR campaign to cover up for the Warren Commission?

CIA Document 1035-960 for those interested.

Your comment doesn't refute the OP. Even limited hangouts can have positive effects.

Limited Hangouts are designed to limit public scrutiny. While it may seem like there are positive effects, in Total..

Yes I realize that the positive effect of vindicating conspiracy theorists with the leaks can be seen as negated by the public's complacency of the leaks. I'm still saying OP isn't wrong.

Edward Snowden doesn't have any conspiracy theories thst i know of. He doesn't think 9/11 or boston was a false flag

Edward Snowden doesn't have any conspiracy theories thst i know of.

He's part of one; mass surveillance.

He doesn't think 9/11 or boston was a false flag

That wasn't my point.

Mass surveillance isnt a theory. Its been known since the 1990s

I believe that the importance of what Snowden did is enabling this information about mass surveillance to penetrate the mainstream. Both mainstream media and mainstream people. One thing I don't like on reddit is the whole 'get the meds' discourse.

Thats the point of the Panopticon. Now the public knows they are being watched. They are easier to control

Hm. I forgot I was on C. Ok. Let me explain my view. I just read about panopticon on conspiracy.archives. Interesting. You do realise that people have, in general, positive attitude toward secret services and believe they are the force of good. They might be so or may not, irrelevant in this case. After Snowden revelations people are not just being sheepish but: raising their voices for example Wikipedia v NSA, or check Google trends and cross reference search for encryption v Snowden revelations. I like events that raise general awarnes about inner workings by agencies on people's data. Think Snowden did that perfectly.

....which is the whole goal imo if Snowden is limited hangout. Ppl will self censor themselves cause they know they're being watched. Response?

So the idea is, if I understand you correctly - we will let them know they are watched in order to make them live in fear and self censor themselves. Isn't that allowing people, the fact that now they know they are being watched, the advantage of actually: fighting back with encryption, tor, using dark Web. Using digital tools to fight back in order to reclaim their privacy. The answer is in the eye of beholder. If you are right thinking people will only self censor and not rebel than it was hopeless from the very begining.

Loltor??? Who created it, do u know?

Navy. Ok. You tell me what is the answer that is what is it that you are doing to make things better?

Letting ppl know about limited hangouts

And how that doesn't have the "Ppl will self censor themselves cause they know they're being watched" effect?

because they know what they do online is now recorded

thus, they self censor

My point exactly. Read my previous comment again. I was quoting you. My point is that within your way of thinking both Snowden's action and George_tenet's action have the same effect. This is because knowing that ES revelations are a limited hangout or not knowing it have according to you the same effect of self sensorship. Therefore you are a part of conspiracy. Within your reasoning. Or at least your actions have the same effect as the one coming from conspirators.

Oh. I see what you mean. But, no. I could argue to The masses about other CIA ops forthe purpose of education. If people learn about lhs, and then think Snowden is, maybe they just wont care about tptb and try and do xactly what they dont want,and thats spreading info

Bro. You are the real Gorge Tenet aren't you? Logic is our friend. Let's agree to disagree.

Ok comrade

No, but believing it was used on the general public for nefarious ends was a theory.

Only for idiots

Which constitutes a large portion of the population.

Sadly

Not by the general public.

I don't think that was my intention at all. Just pointing out a fun coincidence.

Wow you are so delusional that you think even people exposing big brother are part of a conspiracy. Get meds.

Your username is appropriate.

Waves Hand

You do not want to argue stupidly.

I know... But I couldn't resist.

I used to be one of those people that made fun of truthers / conspiracy theorists. It was the Snowden leaks that woke me up. I can only imagine that there are MANY others like me. I get the Snowden limited hangout theory, but I think that if the Snowden leaks are a limited hangout then it totally backfired.

What good is a police state if the people dont know they live in one

Right, I get that. In a "soft" police state where ppl don't know, one doesn't get the same chilling effect on dissent. But I really don't think the Snowden leaks have had a chilling effect on dissent. It's caused the ranks of dissenters to swell IMHO. But I really think that the Snowden leaks have caused the ranks of dissenters to swell which outweighs any chilling effect they have had IMHO.

False

Which part?

The chilling effect. It most Certainly has. Eg how often youl see in main subs about "omg im on a list now"

"the list now" is a joke...

It just goes to show that now the public knows

But the point is that people saying "omg im on a list now" means that they have still said something that puts them on a list and therefore they did not self-censor.

Good point. I still think the overall effect has been positive, but you are right, there has been some chilling effect for sure. I should have worded it differently.

I actually find our response by large to be incredibly disappointing. Certain apps have caught a lot of flack but not much more seems to be happening. How have we not totally abandon all apple smart-phones by now?

Either a lot of us don't care we're being recorded or just have little desire to do much about it. If nothing else, Snowden's leak has revealed Americans can embrace mass surveillance with little to no push back.

I'm almost to the point of thinking most this information coming out the past couple years is deliberately being released in small doses in order to gauge reaction and set up the next grab for power. A lot of this information has been available for decades but seemed so sinister no one would want to believe it, never mind the insane person who provided it.

Now it's being released, I've witnessed many either shutting down in contemplation (totally understandable) or displaying disgust and eventually feeling a little overwhelmed. I feel a lot of us simply don't know what do to other than ditch the apparent violators and that isn't such a good thing :(

We can't just stop - that will make them suspicious. We have to organize offline in parallel.

It's still quite good.

I understand that being aware of the "police state" can allow self-censorship but that doesn't mean that it's ineffective if the public is unaware. In fact people could be more unconscious of what they divulge if they're unaware. You'd think that would allow them to be better incriminated and targeted because they didn't self-censor out of fear.

I honestly see both sides as effective.

Not buying his story nor Greenwald with his domestic drama issue...

Staged.

Its all Circus and Bread, OP!

Well by simple inference of circus and bread (This is while drunk) I can only assume you mean that by circus you are stating that the leakage of files from the CIA database are the peanuts and the bread you stated is simply life sustaining form for natural and pure ordination then yes, circle and bread.

It's a phrase that was used by Juvenal during the declining days of the Roman Empire, if memory serves.

A basic definition from Webster: something, as extravagant entertainment, offered as an expedient means of pacifying discontent or diverting attention from a source of grievance.

Oh you mean like how sports are the modern day Coliseum to distract from real world events?

ES was paraded as a young, innocent pawn, living in Paradise with his Pole Dancing GF, caught up in something sooo Big. Put on display! Come! Eat! Enjoin!

There were others, well before him, that didn't whore themselves and Russ Tice is a prime example. If you don't know about Russ Tice or the others, prior to ES, I encourage you to research.

Blood Sports in this Modern Day Coliseum? Ask Aaron Schwartz or Michael Hastings.

Not sure I agree or that ES can even be trusted. His whole story seems too convenient.

Limited hangout? Paging George_tenet. ;))

Probably passed his bed time.

Why the jab?

Because he thinks his stupid flair makes him a special user

No, because you have a very powerful message and sometimes act a little too childish, thus hurting your message.

That's all.

Childish? Yea ok. Also, why do you have flair?

Just giving you some constructive criticism is all, and apologize for the jab. But it did get us talking and got me to address what I think the issue is, so maybe it was worth it.

Just know I mean no ill will, as we are ultimately on the same team here.

Edit: and for the flair - no idea. Woke up with it.

Thx not mad at u anymore. And you woke up with flair? As far as i know only mr dong, axolotl,and u have flair. Im intrigued as to why

Im intrigued as to why

Your guess is as good as mine. /u/LukeMeDuke has a B2 Spirit (made by Northrop Grumman, of all places) as well.

Replied below.

My favorite part is all the deniers started claiming that they suspected this all along. I haven't seen anyhting change now that many theories have been confirmed.

Whats project shamrock?

He was definitely part of the solution for me anyhow.

I can only speak for myself, but thanks to him my eyes became completely open instead of dismissing my feelings and go on to become another sheep again.

You most certainly can't take anything at face value. Just because my eyes are open doesn't mean I'm ready to hop on any train that comes through. I do what research I feel is good enough for me in order to validate or dismiss things. Anyway. Yeah. I don't post much.

No that's not true, Edward Snowden hasn't revealed anything that wasn't already publically disclosed. I mean Patriot Act alone covers 99% of what Snowden talks about and it has been public record since day one.

no they wouldn`t

Snowden is an American hero.

Right, I get that. In a "soft" police state where ppl don't know, one doesn't get the same chilling effect on dissent. But I really don't think the Snowden leaks have had a chilling effect on dissent. It's caused the ranks of dissenters to swell IMHO. But I really think that the Snowden leaks have caused the ranks of dissenters to swell which outweighs any chilling effect they have had IMHO.

It's still quite good.

I understand that being aware of the "police state" can allow self-censorship but that doesn't mean that it's ineffective if the public is unaware. In fact people could be more unconscious of what they divulge if they're unaware. You'd think that would allow them to be better incriminated and targeted because they didn't self-censor out of fear.

I honestly see both sides as effective.

My point exactly. Read my previous comment again. I was quoting you. My point is that within your way of thinking both Snowden's action and George_tenet's action have the same effect. This is because knowing that ES revelations are a limited hangout or not knowing it have according to you the same effect of self sensorship. Therefore you are a part of conspiracy. Within your reasoning. Or at least your actions have the same effect as the one coming from conspirators.