One thing that has shocked me: I was just then watching who is probably Australia's most esteemed female TV journalist, and one who is regarded as quite rigorous in her impartiality, say:

"it's been shown that anti-vaxxers are not acting rationally, rather they are basing their understanding on conspiracy theories"

Yet, it turns out that Australia has a 97% vaccination rate and that only 15,000 families in total are claiming the "conscientious objector" exemption.

So who gives a fucking shit? Is a tiny minority not getting vaccinated worth the venomous outrage everyone is expressing?

On another note, I find it incredible the degree of assuredness there is among this population considering that the majority of them would never have read any of the primary research. I really gotta try just telling people stuff that I made up and see how it goes.

So who gives a fucking shit? Is a tiny minority not getting vaccinated worth the venomous outrage everyone is expressing? On another note, I find it incredible the degree of assuredness there is among this population considering that the majority of them would never have read any of the primary research

It's an intentional push with scare tactics:

Scroll down a bit from the top to April 13th for the author's take on the australian example.

Scroll down further to an older article on the subject that he recently reposted...scroll past the supermarket rant.

http://www.jimstone.is/

I really gotta try just telling people stuff that I made up and see how it goes.

Isn't that pretty much how this whole subreddit works?

Vaccination is another bandage we are applying to cure the symptom and not necessarily the cause. See I'm not completely against vaccines, but I think it is a slippery slope and people should be allowed to think a little bit more before we are forced to go down that route.

Vaccines are applicable for those. But I don't think its necessary for measles. I think govt.s need to put more effort in organic food as well. Feed their people right.

I have little trust in govt. bodies. Sorry.

That is what it really boils down to.

I will take vaccination for measles if they really insisted but what next? Ebola? Bird flu? HIV? Like I said before, my faith in the govts led by US has really taken a beating since 9/11.

Also I'm into holistic medicine. Visited a doc maybe 5 times in my life. I grew up in Mumbai India, had malaria twice and can survive practically anywhere. Mosquitoes got nothing on me.

If us govt really cared about peoples health, they would make sure they are feeding them well. That's where it all begins. You are what you eat, quite literally.

Nutrition and health standards. The main reason disease rates are so low in modern countries is due to health standards, not vaccination.

This has been conclusively proven over and over. The graphs showing disease rates dropping after vaccinations were introduced don't show what was happening the previous 20 years which was higher health standards anyways.

Diseases were on the way out, vaccinations came on on the tail end:

https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

The main reason disease rates are so low in modern countries is due to health standards, not vaccination.

What do you eat or how do you prepare food differently to prevent Polio?

Higher quality food, better nutrition, higher healthcare.

higher healthcare

Would that include vaccinating against the disease?

Nice and specific there, though. The quality I expected... /s

Would that include vaccinating against the disease?

No, it wouldn't. It would include better education, preventative care, better nutrition education, and generally healthier eating with greater variety of food.

Please describe exactly how one would go about those things to prevent, specifically, Polio. What specific foods do you eat? What do you teach people? What is the preventative care procedure?

What specific foods do you eat?

Beneficial ones. Actual food. Nothing "processed".

What do you teach people?

I need a more specific question.

What is the preventative care procedure?

Healthy living.

I need a more specific question.

What specifically do you teach people to prevent them from getting Polio?

Your answers are not specific. This seems to indicate you actually cannot answer how you do those things to prevent Polio.

What specifically do you teach people to prevent them from getting Polio?

Eat Healthy, Get Sunshine, Live in a place with high quality food and clean drinking water.

Your answers are not specific.

That's because there is not specifically ONE thing that is necessary.

How have those things been proven to prevent Polio?

Get sunshine - so increasing the chances of getting skin cancer prevents Polio?

It's almost as if sunshine, healthy food, and clean water didn't exist in the USA in the 1930's, and certainly wasn't available to the President of the United States during the late 20's.

How have those things been proven to prevent Polio?

Has any vaccine been proven to prevent any disease 100%?

Obvious answer is no. Same concept with nutrition and general health/food standards. All you do is increase your odds.

Get sunshine - so increasing the chances of getting skin cancer prevents Polio?

Nice non sequitur.

It's almost as if sunshine, healthy food, and clean water didn't exist in the USA in the 1930's,

It wasn't very widespread at all...so...yeah.

certainly wasn't available to the President of the United States during the late 20's.

He may have had access to clean water and decent food, but he also smoked and drank.

You should really look at this link and the links in it:

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/32f8gh/discussion_on_vaccines_conspiracies_and/cqaqtyr

Has any vaccine been proven to prevent any disease 100%?

Why does it have to be 100% effective to be valuable?

When was the last reported case of Polio in the USA? What does that say about the vaccine's effectiveness? Or perhaps now soaking up the sunshine and eating right are the norm in the USA?

I think people need to do the research for themselves because nobody who is purporting to have done the research is publishing actual, real results.

On the one hand, you have doctors effectively parroting big pharma and the government telling you to take all the vaccinations, regardless the actual testing that has been done on some. For example, the HPV vaccination seems to be about as effective as no HPV vaccination. Also, what's the point, really, of a flu vaccination in a healthy adult? Between the chances you'll encounter a different strain anyway and the minor impact the virus will have if you catch it (healthy adult), why bother?

On the other hand, you have the anti-vac crowd shouting that all vaccines are evil, harmful, and ineffective which clearly has proved over time to be a blatant lie. There are some vaccines that have been used on literally tens of millions of people. They clearly are effective and not harmful.

Nobody's telling the whole, full, accurate story. Everyone has an agenda. The agenda is clearly not the safety of you or your children. So you have to figure it out for yourself.

I think people need to do the research for themselves

Yeah, sounds like a good plan, maybe you should do that yourself.

For example, the HPV vaccination seems to be about as effective as no HPV vaccination.

This isn't true. Perhaps you should do some research. You could start here, here, here, or here.

Also, what's the point, really, of a flu vaccination in a healthy adult? Between the chances you'll encounter a different strain anyway and the minor impact the virus will have if you catch it (healthy adult), why bother?

I'm not sure why you're asking these questions when you could be researching for yourself. It's pretty easy. Just type your question into Google, and viola! You can get an answer!

But here, I'll help you out since you don't seem to be very good at it, judging from your HPV vaccine comment earlier. This paper suggests that there's probably no point to a healthy adult getting the flu vaccine. So there you go.

Vaccinations are not necessary for health. In the US at least, manufacturers are immune from being sued for side effects, there is even a special court in the US to pay civil damages. So taxpayers have to pay when vaccines kill or debilitate people.

Also, Americans receive more vaccines than any other country on earth. This correlates with the highest infant mortality in the world. SIDS aka "shaken baby" is a possible side effect of vaccination. Vaccines cause SIDs, plain and simple.

From jimstone's article:

Squalene is an important molecule in the body. It is a precursor to many different oils and hormones, and is needed for proper brain function, fertility and also plays an important role in protecting cells from aging and mutation. Anything which affects your natural squalene can have a major negative impact on your health.

Because the squalene will be injected in the presence of a pathogen during the H1N1 vaccination, it will cause an immune response against not only the pathogen, but to the squalene itself. Squalene is a precursor molecule which is essential for the production of many hormones including all of the male and female sexual hormones. Squalene is also a precursor to many of the neurochemical receptors prevalent in the nervous system and when the immune system is programmed to attack squalene, it causes irreversible neuronal and neuromuscular damage which can range from a loss of intellect and autism to more serious disorders such as Lou Gehrig's disease and systemic autoimmune diseases and possibly brain tumors.

In independent studies where squalene laced vaccines were injected into guinea pigs, the resultant autoimmune disorders killed 14 out of 15. A later test, to verify the results had the same outcome.

When first injected via the anthrax vaccine in Gulf War 1, it permanently disabled many of the soldiers who received it, due to the effects now known as the Gulf War Syndrome. 95 percent of the soldiers who recieved the anthrax vaccine have been found to have antibodies to squalene. Few of the soldiers who recieved the vaccine remained healthy and do not have the antibodies whether or not they were deployed. None of the soldiers who did not receive the vaccine have the antibodies, even those who fought in Iraq. Squalene antibody related deaths total 6.5 percent of the vaccinated group.

It takes approximately a year for the effects to fully manifest themselves because that much time passes before the nervous system and brain deplete the reserves of Squalene that are out of the reach of the immune system and only after the reserves are gone will cell injury begin. This takes the pressure off vaccine manufacturers who deny any wrongdoing for a response so delayed. And with Congress passing legislation granting immunity to any corporations who cause damage with their vaccines, the outlook is evermore dark.

After examining the components of the H1N1 flu vaccine we can only conclude that it is not intended to treat the flu at all, quite differently, it is intended to:

1. Reduce intelligence
2. Reduce life span
3. Reduce fertility
4. Cause numerous deaths

For if it was intended for any other purpose, Squalene and other adjuvants beyond the scope of this article would not be present. Furthermore, the scope of this article only covers squalene, and we believe that because there are so many ways to induce autoimmune responses equally devastating via other injectable formulations coupled with the obviously intentional shipment of a pandemic by Baxter that the credibility of vaccines is forever tainted and the trust in the greater medical community may have been irreparably broken. Baxter should be out of business, the fact that they are not is damning.

https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

and

http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elite/2015/03/tainted-nightmare-2-2448530.html

Please pay close attention to the graphs in the first link, and the explanation in the second. Also the important background info here:

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/10/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-freedom-of-information-act-documents-from-uk-reveal-30-years-of-coverup/

All the more reason to vaccinate now, so that future generations won't need them.

Did you read anything I said, or merely knee jerk copy pasta bot style?

There is nothing that anyone could say that would justify the 100,000+ measles deaths per year: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/meas.html

Keeping measles alive is murder, and it should be made a crime punishable by prison. I think France has the right idea for dealing with this problem. http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-02-04/how-france-is-handling-its-own-vaccine-debate

There is nothing that anyone could say that would justify the 100,000+ measles deaths per year: http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/meas.html

No one's justifying anything.

Keeping measles alive is murder, and it should be made a crime punishable by prison. I think France has the right idea for dealing with this problem. http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2015-02-04/how-france-is-handling-its-own-vaccine-debate

Uh, ok.

The anti-vax movement supports the 1% by keeping sickness alive, keeping fear alive.

AHAHAHAHA. It's actually the opposite.

If you look at the demographic most likely to not vaccinate, it's the rich. What does that tell you?

Also how about you argue on facts instead of ad hominem?

http://nsnbc.me/2013/05/10/the-vaccine-hoax-is-over-freedom-of-information-act-documents-from-uk-reveal-30-years-of-coverup/

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/32f8gh/discussion_on_vaccines_conspiracies_and/cqaqtyr

People will spend less on healthcare when Measles is extinct like Smallpox.

Big Pharma doesn't have economic incentive to research new vaccines, they would rather sell us penis pills and new pediatric hospitals. One dose and you are cured? That cannibalizes profits and is not a sound business model.

What? It practically already is extinct in modern countries.

It was practically at zero before the vaccine was introduced...You're the one fear mongering but won't even look at the statistics yourself:

http://i.imgur.com/eD61Ag5.jpg

Big Pharma doesn't have economic incentive to research new vaccines

Thats hilarious, there are tons of new vaccines being developed.

One dose and you are cured? That cannibalizes profits and is not a sound business model.

That's why they have developed so many, and it's a fantastic business model when new customers are being born every day.

Regardless, I'm done with this conversation, as you have failed to address any of my links/evidence whatsoever, rather going on a tirade about measles and supposed lack of profitability.

Fairly sure you're a bot account, if not please take the time to read a few links, and get back to me.

Measles doesn't just cause death, it also causes deafness and other neurological damage. In the US there have been very few deaths from measles in the past 10 years, becasuse we have other ways of treating the life threating complecations brought on by all infectious dieses. In fact your graph has a strong parallel with deaths from bacterial infections, and its for the exact same reason: medicine has gotten better.

Vaccines are incredibly cheap, in fact I received my MMR for free. You glossed over the fact that it is much cheaper to prevent the disease than to treat it, and its absolutly FREE if the problem is extinct.

This why the anti-vax movement keeps fear alive, and generates income for wealthy stake holders.

deafness and other neurological damage.

Except this is rare amongst those that are previously healthy. Most people that have long term side effects from measles were unhealthy to begin with.

http://www.niaid.nih.gov/topics/vaccines/understanding/pages/vaccinebenefits.aspx

It's always cheaper to prevent a disease than it is to treat it. You are ignoring the fact that the best preventative care is actually high nutrition standards, not vaccines.

Statistics: http://i.imgur.com/eD61Ag5.jpg

In fact your graph has a strong parallel with deaths from bacterial infections[2] , and its for the exact same reason: medicine has gotten better.

If by "medicine" you mean higher health standards (clean drinking water, clean food) then sure, medicine has gotten better. The statistics speak for themselves measles was almost eradicated before the vaccine was even released.

This why the anti-vax movement keeps fear alive, and generates income for wealthy stake holders.

How the hell does the anti vax movement generate income?

It's always cheaper to prevent a disease than it is to treat it. You are ignoring the fact that the best preventative care is actually high nutrition standards, not vaccines.

Please cite your sources. Its modern medicine, not vaccines that caused the massive drop off in all deaths from infections disease. You can't get a vaccine for an arbitrary bacterial infection, but these deaths have also decreased over the same period.

The anti-vax movement keeps us sick by intentionally spreading disease, and undermines efforts to eradicate the problem.

Please cite your sources.

I already did. But I'l repost anyways:

https://childhealthsafety.wordpress.com/graphs/

I'm still waiting to hear your thoughts on squalene.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/32f8gh/discussion_on_vaccines_conspiracies_and/cqaqtyr

The anti-vax movement keeps us sick by intentionally spreading disease, and undermines efforts to eradicate the problem.

Citing one or two cases of some ridiculous actions is no reason to generalize "the anti vax movement" as "intentionally spreading disease" any more than saying that because some police are murders, that all police departments encourage murder.

I'm curious, what are your thoughts on squalene in vaccines causing permanent long term damage to the human body?

Measles will be made extinct, and superstition is slowing this process. Please post an article accepted medical journal to backup your claims. I don't believe in magic, and I'm not letting the health of my family be affected by superstition.

I have every vaccine I can get my hands on, except japanese encephalitis which is created using a live culture, and I feel great. i also believe that one generation should be sacrificed so that we never have to deal with this problem again. Not vaccinating because of health concerns is incredibly selfish and short sighted.

So, no thoughts on squalene I take it?

It is selfish to ignore future generations, i am willing to sacrifice squalene and a lot more to end this madness. You sir are evil.

Lol, ad hominem ALLLL day baby.

The anti-vax movement is willing to kill hundreds of thousands of people every year, and millions of the course of generations.

I think France has the right legal framework for dealing with such immoral behavior.

someone said that I am possibly a "shill"

As I am a shill, I'm pretty sure you're not me. So let's just put that notion to rest right now.

I think it was a procedure that was working very well in the past, when the intent was on healing no matter the cost, but I have to admit that my trust in them as waned since the system switched to reduce all cost no matter the healing.

Many of the pro-vaxxers are basing their views on the "healing at all cost" model (elimination of polio, measles, etc.), and the anti-vaxxers are basing it on the "reduce all cost no matter the healing" model (tainted vaccines, ineffective/wrong ones)

Like with everything, virtue lies in the middle. You can admit vaccines were very effective with little side effects before, but you also have to admit that nowadays, the priority #1 is profits for the shareholders by reducing quality controls and using synthetic catalysts/stabilizers instead of natural ones.

It is selfish to ignore future generations, i am willing to sacrifice squalene and a lot more to end this madness. You sir are evil.