Wow, a post exactly confirming everyone's worst thoughts and fears about how reddit is being gamed. I bet he has tons of evidence to support such a fantastic claim. Either way, I'm sure people will lap it up since it agrees with what they already think is true.

While the individual events are certainly true to various degrees. There are shill mods, there are people paid to reddit by goverment and corporations.

Like you said, if this person was one of them, they would have evidence, besides showing a listing of all their comments from the multiple accounts they used(archive and waybacked machined so they couldn't claim it was deleted), they could name names, other people's accounts they aware of, paychecks, the corporations and other records. Who hired him and the chain of employment.

While the records might be incomplete, small fragmented pieces of evidence from all of those would be able to hold them accountable.

But again, this is a troll, so this message is more for people looking at the comments, as I won't waste my time on the poster themselves.

I just took a look at the post on voat, and was actually delighted to see that this was actually the consensus - this is probably happening, but we're not going to believe you without proof. Personally, I'm not sure whether I think this was an attempt at astroturfing or some sort of troll attempt, but I definitely think that, if someone was going to make a legitimate claim of this nature, they would be wise enough to bring some sort of evidence with them to prove their claim.

Edit - wait, are you saying that I'm the troll?

No you are not the troll, I don't know anything about you but your comment calling out the OP, which I agree with.

Oh, gotcha. Wasn't sure how to read that.

this is a troll

how, precisely. i didn't write it up but only passed it on (https://voat.co/v/Conspiracy/comments/83789), the OPs on the line for proof, sure, but it corroborates too much.

Think of it from a different perspective. There are on-going discussions across reddit of things that will shape public opinion on issues important to different organizations and enterprises.

What interest would those groups have in allowing those discussions to evolve organically and in not trying to drive those debates in a useful direction? Assuming that no one here is paid to push an agenda is naive at best.

And if all these mods are working these full time jobs moderating large subs and not monetizing any part of the efforts, then they are either exceedingly stupid or sublimely benevolent. Take your pick.

That's not really a perspective that has any validity with regard to my point - if someone is going to claim to have special knowledge of something, even if it's something that's actually true, they should have proof to back it up.

Agreed from a strict and narrow view of the scope of the sub-discussion you raised.

But your post is an exceedingly common theme when we talk about the reddit environment. I am not going to say that it is a throwaway comment. But your response is as standard as an OP alluding to something he is not willing to prove definitively. So we are left to other devices to determine whether we buy in or not.

I guess I thought you were earnestly looking for a factual or logical proof. My comment was clearly not factual.

But your comment strikes me as though it is from someone who perceives faint early morning light on the Eastern horizon and demands factual proof when another says that the morning sun is rising.

Your comment may have been factual. But again, it has no bearing on the claim made by OP. If OP is going to claim to be part of a scheme such as this, OP should be obligated to prove it. Regardless of whether we already know that such a scheme exists.

For example, I know that police officers exist, and I know search warrants exist. However, if someone shows up at my house claiming to be a police officer with a search warrant, you bet I'm going to ask to see their badge and to examine the warrant before anything else happens. I think that pretty much everyone on this sub would do the same. Even though we know that "police" and "search warrants" are real. Same principle applies here.

In my opinion, anyone making an extraordinary claim should be prepared to provide proof of that claim. Otherwise, you end up in situations like this.

And I'm not sure how you can honestly construe that notion into making me doubt what a sunrise is.

Please tell us more about officers showing up at your door to display their warrant and calmly discuss their concerns.

Your ability to examine the warrant before they enter your premises, makes you the rarest of birds.

Agree, this post is way too good to be true. He hits on too many specifics to be believable.

You realize you have the word shill in your username right?

What's your point?

Really you have to ask, clueless.

Does my username make anything I said less valid?

It's both invalid and obviously biased. Your user name would appear to say "I'm a paid a-hole."

OK. Let's do some... independent thinking... and look at what I said and see how valid it was:

The dude presented a case of something a lot of people seem to believe in. That's pretty obvious from the comments on this thread and on the voat thread. Valid.

The dude presented no evidence to corroborate his story. OK. Valid.

I said people will lap it up, despite having no evidence, because it agrees with their preconceived notions. And a few people are, as you can see. Which isn't uncommon around here, as this post of a fake and long debunked image currently on the front page of this subreddit would indicate. So... also valid.

To recap: 3 valid points in my post. Obviously, we don't all live up to our monikers.

I don't care about your logic and rational explanations. Of course I will trust more "Independent thought 0" than "a shill"

We all know that reddit username is the best indicator of someone's personality and trustworthiness

What he said is well documented you just choose not to believe it. You say his post is long debunked but provide no proof yourself, even though the fact is George de Mohrenschildt a known CIA asset got Oswald his job at the depository and was then murdered the day before he was supposed to testify before the House Select committee on Assassination. His proof of job would only come from identifying himself which no one including you, would do ... So invalid. The people on the site believe these things because they are real and you are making a concerted effort to debunk, why ? What's your motivation if it's not a paycheck?

Look in the thread I linked. Read the comments and think independently.

The particular image that is linked is fake. It's been a known fake for many years. This is a fact. People on this subreddit are upvoting a fraudulent document, which has been proven fraudulent many times, including by someone commenting in the thread. This is also a fact.

Whether or not Oswald was CIA, FBI, or the dictator of a rabid pack of communist clowns, is completely moot to the point which I was making, which was that many people on this subreddit will blindly upvote things that agree with their already-held views, regardless of whether there is genuine proof of them or not.

Again provide proof it was faked , you still haven't. And you obviously don't care if our government was involved in the murder of a president, it bothers me. More typical defense of the status quo. Do you think conspiracy's happen?

Again, read this comment that's in the linked thread. I've asked you three times now to read the comments. I would cut and paste the exact quote here, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish, as you've already had plenty of opportunity to read it if you genuinely wanted to.

And I obviously nothing. I have no idea why you would leap to such a conclusion when absolutely nothing I've said should cause you to think that.

Furthermore, I am certainly not defending the "status quo." Rather, I am challenging the status quo that many users on this subreddit adhere to, which is the failure to seek confirmation of "facts" that are presented when they already fit your preconceived notions of how things are.

Do I think conspiracies happen? I'll say "yes," but the question you are asking is of so broad of a scope that both the question and my answer are completely meaningless. This could mean something as simple as "I believe that some people conspired to assassinate President Kennedy" to something as convoluted as "I believe that President Kennedy was actually a robot controlled by a super-intelligent amoeba created in a lab from Hitler's DNA and was only elected because Santa Claus planted subliminal messages in the media to brainwash Americans into voting for him."

You clearly didn't put much independent thought into the question, though.

(Edited to change link to np.reddit)

That does not link to any article, I tried. You at least admitted that conspiracies exist but then typically went to the obvious absurd the typical tactic of the professional skeptic you are. I checked your history, you are an obvious debunker who interestingly suggests Jesus is a hoax or "conspiracy". You don't have a normal account with comments on other interests ie. Movies, dogs, boating, anything. All you do is try to make anyone who has a differing opinion seem crazy. You said your opinion is expensive, they're paying you too much.

The link works fine. The link in the link I linked also works fine.

Your question about conspiracies was absurd to begin with. I was merely illustrating how absurd it was. As I said.

Please show me where I suggested that Jesus was a hoax or conspiracy. Because I certainly never said nor implied that.

I do a lot more than debunk and try to make people look foolish or crazy. Though, admittedly, I do that from time to time. But there are many instances of me not doing that. I've even agreed with people on things from time to time. However, from what you're claiming I said regarding Jesus, I'm guessing you didn't look closely enough at my post history, other than in an attempt to validate your preconceived notions about me.

You do have a good point about me not posting elsewhere. I lurk, generally only post here because I find you guys interesting. But maybe I'll post on some other subreddits so I look more like a real person. Because a paid shill obviously wouldn't have thought of doing that himself or anything.

Wait I'm on page 6 of your profile, it's the funniest shit I've read in a long time. Your beautiful demanding proof from everyone and never providing a shred of proof yourself. When someone does indulge you you deny their proof to level of saying "what do Jefferson or Washington know.." Ahahahaha........

Well, I provided you with a place where you could find proof of a claim I made three times in this thread. So there's an instance of me providing a shred of proof myself. So there's one instance of you being wrong.

Here are some more:

Here is an instance of me thanking someone else for providing proof, and me not denying anything.

Here is me asking another user for a study he mentioned, and here is me thanking him for linking me to it. Here is another instance of me asking a user for a source, and then thanking him for providing it. Apparently, both asking for more information and thanking a user for linking to it are worthy of being downvoted on this sub. Who knew?

Here is an instance of me providing proof for a claim I made. And here. And here. And here. And here. And here, though that one might be a bit of a stretch. Here is another one. And another. There's a few more, but I think I've made my point.

Here is me providing a link to a well-sourced writeup of something. Here is me asking someone to debunk it. Or even to debunk a couple of the specific claims made therein. You'll note that I asked that user at least four times to post anything of substance. He never did. And nowhere in this conversation did I make any claim that could be conflated to mean that Jesus was a conspiracy theory.

Here is the thread about the Washington quote. Jefferson's name was never mentioned, and I never said "what does Washington know." If you took the time to read what I actually wrote, I was "trying to elicit discussion." Which was actually somewhat pleasant, until the person I was talking with posted a link to a clearly prejudiced website, at which point, I ended the conversation.

There is about a page worth in there of me trying to get some sort of evidence for anything from the "dark journalist" guy. You'll note that I was never given any. Which was pretty much the point that I was trying to make in that whole post -- he's pretty much making money by peddling baseless bullshit.

Here is the only instance I can find of what I think could honestly be construed as me blowing someone off who has presented "evidence."

Ahahaha.... you think Monsanto and Round up are cool.....ahahaha. Priceless.

Never said either of those things. But, since reading comprehension obviously isn't a skill you possess, I'm done.

Have a nice day.

Ahahahaha........ Bahahaha..... I didn't say that, it's in your thread moron.... ahahaha....fucking priceless.

[deleted]

I only have 1 account. And I haven't downvoted anyone in this discussion. I don't generally feel that downvoting people you disagree with is constructive to or compatible with reasonable discourse.

If you disagree with me on a particular point, feel free to express your disagreement and reasons for doing so. If your issue is simply that you can't read past my username, then I suppose there's nothing I can do about that, as I have no intention of changing it.

Regardless, your statement really doesn't add anything to the topic at hand.

well its a lot more credible then a lot of reddits various turds, and some still arnt convinced, a lot because of exactly these efforts. i also worry about the fact that r/conspiracy is also not immune to shill infiltration.

The post would definitely confirm my suspicions about the mods in the larger subs (and many of the comments/voting patterns)--but there is just hearsay with no actual verifiable source.

If the user could provide info, like next week South Korea will be pushed hard or a specific example of their work--at least then we'd have something to base the claims on.

I was almost believing it, until the 'list'.

Agree compeltely. This is a troll post.

While this particular account may or may not be true, we've all encountered such people here.

what's to stop them from infiltrating voat and every other site like it, now or in the future?

The vaccine shilling is so obvious. I have constantly noticed things being posted just because it mentions vaccines and just to start a "debate" about it in the comments. For instance, somebody dug up a Jim Carrey MTV award acceptance speech from the '90's (very low quality). The major theme of the comments was how he and Jenny McCarthy are anti-vax loonies who should be ashamed of themselves.

Here's a recent example from /r/publicfreakout . Top comment had to include "they don't vaccinate their children" in the list of reasons we should hate them. Also, Rainbow people reject American society and money is useless there. So, they would probably be a shill target too. You'll find my downvoted comment in that thread.

When I see the Vaccine shilling a used to (no point really) try to be a voice of reason. I say things we can all get behind like "make sure your child's immune system can handle the viruses in vaccines, make sure multiples wont interact, do research before blindly getting injected". I am routinely downvoted while the person who insults me with poor grammar, no punctuation, made up words and ad hominem gets many upvotes. Totally obvious.

Also the movie Interstellar. People constantly talked about it on Reddit so it made me want to see it. I missed it in theaters. I know the dudes at the local video store so I knew when it was coming out on DVD because I had first dibs. Low-and-behold, there was a flood of Interstellar related posts right before it was released. Somebody posted a image of "Gargantua" on /r/space. Are you kidding me? That's a "scientific" sub and Gargantua is fictional CGI. It was heavily upvoted of course.

It's just so obvious.

I see the auto mod got on you when you mentioned vaccines, point proven.

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This guy hit son too many specific points to be credible. Do you really think they are telling people to specifically push that the Sandy Hook kids were real? Wouldn't that get out pretty quickly? This guy sounds like a troll.

you sound like a troll.

Good retort.

its retort with equally as much a basis you calling troll.

I gave my reasons for thinking he's trolling, but I'll expand.

I feel like the list he went into was just too good. It's everything that every person on this sub just wishes would come out. The idea that they are hiring random people with no government or military connections and then telling them to go online and specifically say that the Sandy Hook kids were real just doens't sound believable to me.

I think people just like the OP would spill the beans pretty fast.

And of course, he didn't offer a shred of evidence. All he'd have to do is have one printout or screenshot of his orders or the systems he uses and it would have a ton of credibility.

Israel is our best ally and one of the nicest nations on Earth and Palestine is a filthy hellhole of terrorists that should be wiped off the map.

This kind of thing just is not believable without some evidence. And for the record I 100% believe this kind of shilling goes on. I just don't think the OP is telling the truth.

Also the obligatory "I can't be too specific or I'll risk my family" . Then goes on to say something that anyone could say. Nothing he said in there is a revelation, it's everyting that we already suspect.

sure, anyone could say it, original OPs on the line for proof. but shills are happening and this fits too many cases where an odd amount of AstroTurf was happening, and facts kind of throw some important questions into all mentioned matters.

there's the obvious ones where obviously kooks are kooks arnt they guys?. but, you mentioned sandy hook. and if so what is the explanation for these cases?

http://www.infowars.com/conspiracy-theorist-arrested-after-calling-sandy-hook-shooting-fake/

http://nypost.com/2013/10/15/sandy-hook-demolition-team-sworn-to-secrecy/?utm_source=SFnewyorkpost&utm_medium=SFnewyorkpost

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s89y7uE9u4Q&feature=player_embedded#!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3R8QV1EoEvM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.redflagnews.com/headlines/school-shooting-expert-threatened-over-sandy-hook-investigation

http://imgur.com/yRKFJ