They have turned telling the truth (Truther) into a cut down.

It doesn't help that there's a large part of the "Truther" movement that doesn't change their mind when presented with evidence. And having scam artists like Gage be the voice of the movement doesn't help, either.

Went into Afghanistan first to get a foothold and nab Opium production, which went up in the hundreds of percent since its takeover. We put a CIA friendly idiot in power there, Hamid Karzai. The 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi-Arabia (Some are still alive, one was a student who lost his passport here before getting home) but we still wanted "boots on the ground" there anyway. Then needed justification for war with Iraq, even though Bush admitted to zero connection. Iraq wasn't playing ball with Western powers even though they put him in control and supported him back in the day. They later made him the boogieman and had him hung.

Oil in the mid-east and control over the region and pipelines was a good goal for them to achieve. They also get a shot at surrounding Iran and getting a good foothold into the region to take out Libya as well. They finally got Gaddaffi out, after supporting Al-queda in Libya's region. Gaddaffi himself said that he had imprisoned thousands of Al-queda members and they were somehow busted out of prison and used to fight the so called uprising against him. They had zero resources and Gaddaffi had them quelled until they one day donned American camo and had weapons to fight against him. They even FAKED the historic Green Square in order to make it look like a civil war was actually supported by the people when it was not.

Syria was also one of these "axis of evil" countries that just HAD to be taken out so they worked on them with the FSA, but that didn't work....so now the new boogiemen are beheading people and that has worked to cause an uproar, even though they have the money and the production value of HOLLYWOOD. The so called rebels all have American camo and in some cases, new Multicam which is clearly American. They somehow have the money for this huge force but all of their equipment was conveniently left in Iraq by the US! They "left" it there never thinking it would ever be used again/against them. Strange....even with Al-queda running around, they couldn't have seen it coming. Very strange.

Iran is one of the last holdouts.....and obviously everyone believes the propaganda that they're out to get us.....even though they would be squashed like a bug if they tried. They're looking for a reason to get in there in a bad way.

Ahh, so much to it.....but you and I pay for these wars and more money flows to a certain foreign country for THEIR safety than the people in our own. People here are on food stamps but we almost entirely fund their military and help continue an apartheid against Palestine.

That's my sparse review. All for control, oil, power and continued suppression of the regular Joe like you and I. We must always believe there s a reason to go to war and advocate for their destruction on the rich man's terms. Politics is power.

Well said man. Hit nail right on the head. The Patriot act was signed in as well.

Oh sheesh, that too! There is so much more. They are working quicker than ever. This is a huge topic, and one that is so large people shy away from because it is somewhat complicated but in the end, once a person gets the idea.....its not so complicated. Thanks for your comment.

There is a detailed timeline of the impacts and secondary explosions in this movie:

http://www.luogocomune.net/site/modules/sections/index.php?op=viewarticle&artid=167

The US didn't gain anything by invading Iraq, but it wasn't "The US" who committed 9/11 or "The US" who told the lies that started the Iraq war. The U.S. government isn't an entity, it is more like a tool, which can be bought and controlled or blackmailed for whatever purpose.

What if I showed you a photo of George Bush mouth kissing an Islamic Extremist / oil company oligarch?

http://www.hermes-press.com/BushKiss2.jpg

Remember when a bunch of state sponsored terrorists with the backing of the Saudi government flew two airplanes into two buildings in New York causing 3 of them to collapse?

The guy W is kissing in the picture's goal is the establishment of a global caliphate. ISIS is what he supports.

Do you kiss your enemies on the mouth?

Kissing on the mouth is more than being diplomatic. Nobody else does that. Obama didn't even make his wife cover her head.

There's a difference between kissing on the mouth and being polite too - that's my point.

The 9/11 commission report also found a connection (it's censored). And even commission members have outright called it a 30 year conspiracy. George Bush himself called it a conspiracy.

How can you deny things staring you in the face? There's more proof that Bush and the Saudis (and friends) did it than that the hijackers did it

[deleted]

The mental stress you are experiencing is called cognitive dissonance. It should go away shortly if you stop fighting against the obvious truth.

Look at all the evidence together. A single piece by itself means nothing.

Do you hear what I am saying? You disagree with the official version of events if you think there was no conspiracy involving the Saudis.

“There’s nothing in it about national security,” Walter Jones, a Republican congressman from North Carolina who has read the missing pages, contends. “It’s about the Bush Administration and its relationship with the Saudis.” Stephen Lynch, a Massachusetts Democrat, told me that the document is “stunning in its clarity,” and that it offers direct evidence of complicity on the part of certain Saudi individuals and entities in Al Qaeda’s attack on America.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/twenty-eight-pages

The 9-11 commission didn't assign blame.

Our aim is not to assign individual blame.

9-11 Commission Report (pg. xvi)

So what proof do you have? So far you have done nothing but poke holes in everything provided? The 9/11 commission report basically admits it was an inside job, and the people who wrote it called the commission a cover up. There are dozens of whistleblowers, melted steel, buildings that weren't hit falling in free fall, and planes flying impossibly fast.

Whereas all you have to say is "that's not enough"

What exactly are you looking for? What would prove it to you?

The burden of proof is upon the person making the claim.

As I said, the official story is that this was a conspiracy between KSA and the Bush family, as admitted by Bush himself, the 9/11 commission report, and dozens of whistleblowers.

Your claim that it was a conspiracy by some guys in caves in Afghanistan who somehow were able to prevent NORAD from intercepting planes for 45 minutes is much more incredulous.

On the day of 9/11 multiple eye witnesses stated live on television that the buildings fell in a controlled collapse.

Every positive claim can be turned into a negative - for example you are trying to get me to prove that this WASN'T done by bin Laden.

You don't get to decide that your speculation which is based in nothing (as I've repeatedly said, by claiming that 9/11 wasn't an inside job you are denying the official but redacted story).

Saying that you don't know something just because the government says it's classified is not good citizenship.

The Bush administration was run by the group of political thinkers we call "neoconservatives." They have been around for a long time and they are the cause of a lot of trouble.

Think of them as "the Nixon administration minus Nixon" because Nixon was one of their early leaders before his 'early retirement.' They were pro-war, pro-empire, pro-Wall Street Republicans. But they were willing to lie about being "compassionate" or "Christians" to get votes.

Under Nixon, this group famously signed deals with Iran, Saudi Arabia, China and Russia that set up the world economy as it exists today, centered around oil instead of gold as intended.

After Nixon's fall, their leader was George H.W. Bush. He was Nixon's U.N. Ambassador and then President Ford's CIA commander. Bush oversaw the "reforms" of the CIA after the Church Committee exposed their most horrible crimes. Since Bush took over in the 70s, very few leaks have come out of the CIA about what they are doing.

A little later, Bush found a Real Life Hollywood Actor named Ronald Reagan to pretend to be a cowboy and run for president. Bush became his vice President. A few months after they were sworn in Ronald Reagan was almost assassinated-- but he survived! So Bush remained behind the scenes until 1988 when he ran for president.

As President, HW Bush declared the dawning of a New World Order in Congress and on exactly the same day signed the order to start the "Hammer Fund" or "Project hammer," a $2.3 trillion government bond intended to "alter the deal" that he himself had signed with Russia and China.

(Or maybe implementing parts of the deal with them that he didn't tell the public about)

Anyway, the $2.3 trillion bond expired exactly 20 years later on Sept. 11, 2001. the H.A.M.M.E.R. fund is portrayed allegorically in pop culture by Marvel's S.H.I.E.L.D.

Before 1991, scandals like Watergate and Iran contra had come close to exposing the criminal network secretly controlling the government. Reporters had done this by FOLLOWING THE MONEY. So all their activities after 1991 we paid for by the H.A.M.M.E.R. fund.

The mission of the H.A.M.M.E.R. fund was to fund terrorists and radicals in and around the Soviet Union to destabilize and eventually collapse the country. Essentially a continuation of what had successfully driven the Soviets out of Afghanistan in the 1980s.

(BTW that effort was led by Osama bin Laden & Ronald Reagan had the Taliban leaders as guests at the White House)

The effort to destabilize the Soviet union was well under way by 1991, but the H.A.M.M.E.R. fund was also intended to shape policy for the next 20 years, it was used to buy up Russia's assets as the communist regime sold off its infrastructure. It set up a group of Oligarchs in Russia that eventually dominated the transportation and energy sectors. They kept Russia corrupt and broken for the entire 1990s and no one challenged the U.S. as the World Police.

Then in 2000, George HW Bush's son was running for President.

The H.A.M.M.E.R. fund was tracked by the Pentagon budget office, and when the bonds came due on 9/11, I'm sure they were quite perplexed, but then an airplane crashed directly into the budget analysts office, killing almost everyone who worked there.

I agree with most of what you wrote, except the part about Ronald Regan. I believe that he had good personal intentions (listen to his speeches prior to being shot) and actually attempted to change things, which is why he was assassinated. After he was shot, he fell in line and became a proper puppet.

He might have had good intentions -- the best liar believes he is telling the truth

The president (in general) is actually extremely isolated, strictly scheduled and only gets information his staff gives him.

Start googling, you can verify 90% of that on wikipedia, the rest via .org sites

If you just tell me to start googling i going to spend a lot of time on it. I cant check every idea ever conceived.

You want to ask for the truth, and then when plausible theories are provided to you, you say you can't check on them? What exactly do you want?

I just want to know what time truthers think the plane got hijacked, when it hit the buildings and when the towers fell.

You can literally look this up on wikipedia. No one is disputing the fact the planes were hijacked or when the towers fell. The more important questions are the physics related to the planes impacting the buildings, and the physics of how the buildings fell. And building 7. Those are the important questions.

If you give a suggestion for someone to google it you are inviting them to look for hours until they reach a conclusion. Due to the nature of conspiracies they are dubious in nature, information is everywhere and there are conflicting opinions even among conspiracy theories. The best way for me to have an informed decision without becoming an expert is to check sources, who writes them, their credibility etc.

I agree with this, but if you ask someone questions about the nature of the universe for example, thats not something that is going to be summed up in one paragraph. Same concept with 9/11.

We can give you specific answers, but when you ask more specific questions we are going to point you to websites or ask you to google it yourself. I personally will point you to websites, the other commentator told you to google it.

I guess my point is, we can give you specific websites, but something of this nature requires a lot more than just looking at one website. Because one website can make claims, then "debunking sites" make counter claims, and then "debunking debunker" sites debunk the supposed debunk...

Here is a good resource to start with, as I linked in another comment.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/347hso/chief_electrical_design_engineer_of_the_wtc/cqrz1kq

Did you just suggest Cracked.com as a source of enlightenment?

No. Just no.

For the love of all that is holy get educated.

You know what I like your answer. I'm going to dedicate 3 mins to this.

You might think going to school, taking tests and getting good grades makes you educated. Hell I did, I also read the Economist! I could talk to anybody at pretty much any event about anything from ancient civilizations to current events to how to existentially contemplate my navel.

Then, because I was so smart of course, I started listening to people like Chomsky and Gatto. Respected men in academia with lots of initials and book credits after their names. But not just passively listening, really listening. To their words. That lead me to the realization that many words did not mean what I thought they meant. The horror!!! Then I started to realize that many events, events I was watching in real time, were not happening like I was told they were.

Trust me on this, the more mainstream the site, the less you are getting to the core. Everything is biased, including what I am writing, but some things are planned out in advance with an agenda, the thing you are watching is a carefully contrived step in a long process to make you perceive or behave in a certain way.

I will not engage in a debate with you. If you are looking for a mentor to start your journey I am not that person. A wise man once said we come into this world alone and we leave it alone.

If you want to learn this is a great place to do it. If you want to show is all how you can repeat what you current events teacher or CNN is reporting let me save you the trouble, we have all heard it.

Good luck.

I hope you realize that the first time everyone hears this shit it seems wrong... But we are here because we've researched this stuff... If you really want to know, look it up. These people get away with it for this exact reason, it seems farfetched But it's not as out there as it seems.

It sounds like you don't want to look outside of your comfort zone. Its an insult when people equate my thoughts to a fad because i probably spend more time thinking about the world and researching than anyone else i know, and i don't just jump to conclusions.... Whatever, if you spent half as much energy on researching things as you do dismissing them you might see where were coming from.

We're trying to provide you with starting points... Its useless if you don't look into it.

that's some good alternate-reality fan fiction. ever hear of the work of Alan Moore? you should devote your creative energy in that manner.

• I mean even according to cynical totalitarian books like "the prince" and "Art of war" it goes into detail about how prolonged war is bad for everyone including the leaders.

This is true in the times of old. These days, war is a business. Weapons are bought and sold to nations. Our taxes pay for these weapons and the people who make them stay in business. Indefinite war.

First of all, calling someone a truther is typically a derogatory term, you should refrain from that.

when exactly did the planes get captured and when did they hit the towers?

I don't see how this is relevant to the more pressing points, but I'l play along.

Planes were captured either by actual hijackers, or were gassed and diverted from their original fight plan, and replaced (more likely). There have been numerous documentaries by pilots for 9/11 truth about the fact that the supposed planes rammed into the towers could not have moved as fast as they did, thus suggesting the planes were switched. The fact that the planes flew through radar blind spots supports this theory.

Obviously the planes hit the towers...when you see them hit the towers.

Do most truthers have a rough idea of when they think the controlled demolition went off?

You're really new to this aren't you? The "controlled demolition" went off when the buildings came down...

Did the US gain anything on attacking Iraq? I mean even according to cynical totalitarian books like "the prince" and "Art of war" it goes into detail about how prolonged war is bad for everyone including the leaders.

Your average US citizen lost out on a lot, which of course doesn't matter. The rich gained a TON of money from contracts, and of course Israel gained a lot from having saddam out of the way.

FBI is giving me cancer from vaccines

You're obviously just making things up, I've heard a lot of crazy stuff but I've never heard that one.

i have yet to see evidence for it.

Well, if you have yet to see evidence for 9/11 being a coverup, you haven't been looking.

Here is a great place to start on the key points of why the official story is impossible, basic physics:

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/347hso/chief_electrical_design_engineer_of_the_wtc/cqrz1kq

Yes, the towers were hit and fell on the times listed on the link. I've never heard of anyone disputing that, your friend has probably fell for some disinfo.

Btw popular mechanics debunking is a joke...literally.

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History Commons - Complete 911 Timeline

Lots of good info that you are looking for at /r/911truth. I am frankly getting tired of repeating myself.

Remember when a bunch of state sponsored terrorists with the backing of the Saudi government flew two airplanes into two buildings in New York causing 3 of them to collapse?

The guy W is kissing in the picture's goal is the establishment of a global caliphate. ISIS is what he supports.

It doesn't help that there's a large part of the "Truther" movement that doesn't change their mind when presented with evidence. And having scam artists like Gage be the voice of the movement doesn't help, either.