I find it interesting that the police unions today act as a huge insulator between justice and police. They'd rather protect killers, thieves, and sexual abusers, than succeed one of their own. This is a huge undertone of American culture as I see it in various political parties and special interest groups as well. Religious institutions as well as Republicans and Democrats are particularly bad at cleaning up their own houses. However, they are extremely creative when it comes to deflecting blame to the other side. Rush Limbaugh has made a career out of blaming democrats. He and his staff are probably coming up with creative ways to pin the Nepal quakes on Elizabeth Warren while making clandestine statements that start with, "if only a republican would have been in power..."

Reporter Doubts Report Freddie Gray Injured Himself

"We disagree with any implication that Freddie Gray severed his own spinal cord," Downs said. "We question the accuracy of the police reports we’ve seen thus far, including the police report that says Mr. Gray was arrested without force or incident."

The spin that the cops are putting on this is so unbelievable that it almost seems like the INTENT is to arouse indignant rage - almost like they are trying to incite riots in Baltimore and beyond.

The spin that the cops are putting on this is so unbelievable that it almost seems like the INTENT is to arouse indignant rage - almost like they are trying to incite riots in Baltimore and beyond.

Really, what do they have to lose? Look at what happened in Ferguson. White support for the police ROSE DRAMATICALLY following the police state show of force and brutal put-down of the local population. Whites coast to coast rallied in enthusiastic support for the police. The police have nearly attained the levels of blind worship normally reserved for members of the armed forces.

And you know the cops are just itching to dole out some bloody street justice. That's a tradition as old as America. They revel in it. And from their point of view, the great thing about the USA is that they can get their thrills murdering and beating the innocent, and then reap praise from the white majority.

It's all kinda crazy.

I truly hope that you are wrong about this....

I hope all Americans, regardless of color, religion, or socio-economic background will wake-up...

It's a big hope, I know

I think some will. Especially young people. And especially any group that can identify with what it's like to be in the minority in America -- all non-white racial groups, all non-Western European ethnic groups, all non-Christians, etc. The only people who seem truly immune to reality are the whites. Because the more this happens, the more white support for cops goes up.

It's just like Bill O'Reilly. After extensive evidence of his lying on the air, his conservative fan base loved him more than ever. His ratings went up dramatically, and the entire conservative movement rallied behind him. For O'Reilly, and in the bizzarro world that is the American conservative movement, getting caught as a pathological liar is a good thing.

And likewise the cops: getting caught putting down blacks for no reason thrills white people, and they respond with enthusiastic support.

Just look at George Zimmerman. He became an iconic figure, a national hero, for white America after he tracked down and murdered Trayvon Martin.

I agree with some of your premise, however, as time goes forward, I believe it will show what it is truly about. It's rich verses poor.

Always has been

Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, all the Labels just give degrees of separation to Americans.

More of the us and them ideals. Until we choose to reject this, we will all continue suffer under the guise of Justice, ands Service.

It's rich verses poor. Always has been

Totally agree with that. That's not to say race isn't an issue. Race clearly is an issue; it's the central issue shaping and defining American history. But you're right that power is really held by the rich. They pretty much control everything. Government is one of the only ways we have to influence outcomes in our society and taKe some of that power back from the wealthy.

Republican, Democrat, Liberal, Conservative, all the Labels just give degrees of separation to Americans.

I hear what you are saying, but there are HUGE and very important differences between Republicans and Democrats, and between liberals and conservatives. If we had 10 years of total Republican control of Congress and the White House, the country would go in a radically different direction than if we had 10 years of total Democratic control.

I understand that to some people, both sides suck. People who are way out to the far right, right of both parties, tend to be dissatisfied with either choice. (Though in reality they always vote Republican.) Likewise, many people to the left of the Democrats are unhappy with their choices. But despite these feelings, the two parties believe very different things and will lead the country in very different directions.

If Obama had been defeated in 2008 or 2012, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid would have all been eradicated or eliminated. Obamacare would be gone. Just on these issues the differences between the parties is enormous. And there are MANY issues just like them.

Government is controlled by the wealthy.

How many poor people are in the Federal Legislature? Or the Executive Branch

Government is a shield for the wealthy, not a tool for encouraging equality.

You're looking at gross numbers and not seeing the actual story.

This is not a numbers game, any more than the first American Revolution was a numbers game.

I'm not sure what you mean. What do you mean by numbers game? And what is the actual story that I'm not seeing?

numbers game

Human rights are not democratically-derived. It doesn't matter how many people disagree, human rights exist, they are important, and they are worth fighting for. An illustration is both easy and simple: it doesn't matter how many people believe homosexuality is a sin, gays should be able to marry, live freely, and conduct their lives as they see fit.

And what is the actual story that I'm not seeing?

You say that white support for police rose dramatically following Ferguson. I've seen that. I've also seen a lot of people watching with great concern the way the police actively provoked and participated in violence.

But more importantly, I saw how the violence instantly stopped when a group of Oathkeepers (both white and black) arrived and patrolled the rooftops with rifles. The media castigated them and the police threatened them, but they stopped the violence on all sides.

And that is the answer. Citizen militia show up and document, observe, witness, and protect. Liberty is not a numbers game. It is not a numbers game because you only need a tiny number of people to do it.

If you only watch the numbers, you miss the stories that tell you what is actually happening. The violence in Ferguson continued even when the National Guard arrived. It stopped when the Oathkeepers showed up.

Another example: After Hurricane Katrina, firearms were confiscated and people forcibly evacuated, and an epidemic of looting and violence followed. After Hurricane Sandy, people painted big signs reading "You Loot We Shoot" and there was peace ... a peace in which the Occupy Wall Street organizers were teaching FEMA how to conduct rescue operations. That's a pretty interesting story when you think about it. Peace because everyone was armed and trigger-happy, and the anarchists were teaching the statists how to do their job.

It's not about numbers. It is about liberty.

it doesn't matter how many people believe homosexuality is a sin, gays should be able to marry, live freely, and conduct their lives as they see fit.

Oh, I totally agree. It should not matter that white people enthusiastically support the police state by enormous margins. But it does matter. Because in a democratic country, whether we like it or not, accountability comes at the ballot box. If citizens were opposed to brutal police repression, they would demand and force change. But in the US, every time the police go on a rampage, the support of the majority white population goes up. We definitely need to blame the police for being thugs. But even more important, we have to change the culture that worships authoritarianism and encourages police brutality.

Where I work, the white conservatives have been talking all week about how they wish the cops would "take the gloves off" and start shooting protesters in the streets.

This is our country. This is white, conservative, Republican, tea party, libertarian America.

I've seen that. I've also seen a lot of people watching with great concern

I get that, and I've seen the same. Among the young, among the non-dominant groups. The increased awareness is a good thing. Heck, it's a great thing. But it is still running into the bulwark of white support for the police -- the bulwark that makes real change so difficult.

I don't have much else to say in response to what you go on to say about the Oathkeepers, and about Katrina, because I feel we are so at odds on those issues that it would be futile to discuss it. But I do appreciate your thoughtful comments and your taking the time to explain your thinking and the problems with mine.

That's been my theory since day one. If their end game is to implement countrywide martial law, Baltimore would be a good city with a predominant demographic of systematically impoverished and incriminated population to a incite a revolt in response to the protection of racially driven police brutality that would quickly spread through other cities.

I suspect that their end game may be to Federalize all police forces - as a "cure" to end once and for all the "rampant discrimination" against blacks by local police jurisdictions.

Problem > Reaction > Solution is a tried and true strategy to get the public to swallow governmental power-grabs that they would otherwise resist.

Of course the proposed "solution" is NOT going to solve the problem, but that isn't their goal anyway. What they seek, I suspect, is a Nationalized militarized police under Federal command, nationwide.

If it takes some riots and martial law along the way, so be it.

The fact that there is anyone alive dumb enough to believe the idea that Gray just spontaneously broke his own spine is mind boggling.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LURzKg96BhI = Baltimore Mayor Hand Picked by Obama for Task Force, Plan to Nationalize Police

This is definitely the smoking gun. I don't doubt that the anger behind the protests is quite real, however I'm sure the way it's been handled is in line with "not letting a good crisis go to waste."

This is definitely the smoking gun.

A known lunatic sitting on YouTube making up shit without a single shred of evidence is not a smoking gun.

smok·ing gun noun a piece of incontrovertible incriminating evidence.

Dahboo didn't even provide evidence, must less incontrovertible or incriminating evidence.

Here's a hint: If you want to make amazing allegations, you need evidence.

Plan to Nationalize Police

Oh God, here we go..

Hysterical nonsense. He is just making shit up.

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If by scared you mean naked with a margarita and a shotgun... then yes... i'm scared. Forgotten Gods Awake!!!

Jack Daniels and Ar-15 here, the old gods awaken!!!!!

Nobody enjoys surgery.

Scared of what? I'm not scared of anything at the moment.

If there is no justice then make your own.

Since the Baltimore police have been untruthful about the matter, the rest of us have valid reasons to distrust their rumor mongering.

Great point. These riots started on unsourced rumor. There's a good possibility they're trying to drum up more "business" for the next news cycle.

Its anecdotal, but the police unions appear pretty tight with the district and state level judges in Houston. They all seem to rub elbows together at the Petroleum Club.

Six police officers have been charged in the death of Freddie Gray, Baltimore State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said Friday.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

Wow! Good thing I didn't try to push my info as the truth... Seemed credible, just wanted to cautiously relay what I had been told.

gonna check back in on this in a few to see if your bro was right.

Seems consistent with the leaks coming out that say the cops won't be charged for murdering the poor guy.

Par for the course.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/01/us/freddie-gray-baltimore-death/index.html

Sounds totally plausible. Holder must be fuming.

except holder isnt atty general anymore....

Thank god for that.

They replaced him with an upgraded version of the same thing.

Baltimore needs to die.

Bring it bitch. You know where to find us.

You'll be back to obscurity in a couple days...don't you worry one bit. It will be just like you are all dead again.

This is killing the city.

Every once in a great while, the brutal white repression of black people comes back to bite white people.

Of course, for whites the pain will only be temporary; for blacks, it will go on into a fifth century and beyond. (The first black slave was brought to these shores in 1619 -- just about 400 years ago. It's been 20 brutal generations for black folks on this continent.)

The one "right" that white people will never give up is the right to kill any black person they don't like the looks of, any time.

I'm white and I read all your comments in this thread and i don't think any of the stuff you think i think. Do you think that perhaps its ironic and sad to react to racism by being racist? I have a white niece. She is 5. I don't think she thinks any of the stuff you think she thinks either. Seems like hasty generalizations and lazy thinking to me.

Well obviously I'm not talking about every white person. I'm talking about the dominant majority of white people. I'm talking about white people as a group. Just exactly the way people always talk about groups by their defining or majority characteristics.

There is no claim that every white person supports police brutality. There is a definitely, inarguable claim that white people as a group support police brutality. It is what it is.

Oh, and I'm white, too. Live in rural Midwest America in a town that is 95% white. I know all about whites because I've been surrounded by them for 50 years.

[deleted]

I didn't say that white people want to murder every black person.

And I didn't say "white people as a whole."

I'm talking about the dominant majority of the white population. The 65% or 70% of whites who support the police after every one of these horrifying stories of abuse.

I apologize if your feelings were hurt when I pointed out that the problem is white people and the overwhelming support of white people for police brutality. But we need to come to terms with it because white support for police brutality is the single biggest obstacle to change.

You need to confront your white friends and family and get them to agree with you, or this will go on for another 400 years. The first 400 were hard enough; we can't allow this to go on for even ONE more century.

But it's going to have to be up to white people to stop it. Because they're the ones who allow it and applaud it.

I've also heard some "rumors" going around about Baltimore. Mainly that the mayor is heavily involved in the Nation of Islam and Muslim Brotherhood, and that when she said she was giving space for those who wanted to destroy, this was actually code word for a much more dangerous them riots to happen. I've been researching this angle, and nearly ALL the people the mayor is surrounding herself with are deeply involved in NOI or MB.

She also has a very close relationship with Valerie Jarrett. I've also heard this will culminate in some kind of event which will be blamed on Islamic terrorism, maybe a car bombing by the way all the networks have played the burning car footage from the first night, over and over again.

Who knows what will really happen. It's been very refreshing to see absolutely 0 violence the past few nights, despite major propaganda pushing violence on all sides of the political spectrum.

Could you go back and listen to what the Mayor actually said?

She actually said something along the lines of "unfortunately, while we gave people enough room to voice their concerns and keep the police away - we <inadvertently> gave them enough room to destroy as well".

So she really wasn't saying anything like they intentionally gave people enough room to destroy.

While I don't believe this is something organized from the "top" of the city, however - I think the Police really fucked up when they closed down the public transit around the schools and left all the high school kids stranded. How incompetent are they?

No she didn't. I've watched the clip numerous times, she said what she meant, and meant what she said. This is mind control when completely flip the tables and deny saying what they said the day before.

Whether or not anything is going to happen, who knows. I did call it a rumor, and that's exactly what it is. I'm just saying from the small amount of research I've done on her background, and the people she associates with, this very well may be true, enough so I thought I would bounce it off this great community and get other like minded people's opinion on it.

Thanks for giving yours, even if I don't agree. Up -voted for actually contributing something.

I just watched your clip. It is the same that I saw. It is clear to me she is saying that the "space to destroy" was an unwanted side effect of giving the protesters room to protest.

Whatever is going on in your mind, it is not based on the reality of what she is trying to convey. It is coming from you.

Right, and 2+2=5. She said what she meant and meant what she said. She only even attempted to clarify it 48 hours after she said it and the press, mainly drudge, red linked it and she started getting heat for it.

Not only did she say it, her actions thus far, by allowing the looting and rioting, speak much louder then her own words. Her actions line up perfectly to what she said. Your reality has been hacked it seems

Two different clips. I heard her say they needed to have room to destroy. I heard it more than once.

Haha, that's great. Isn't it funny people really believe that stuff?

And with no evidence! I guess some people are just primed to receive a certain kind of message. It just makes "sense" to them based on their worldview. So they don't need evidence. It's just "obvious" to the true believer.

Say, that IS a nice propaganda catapult /u/WideAwakeNWO has there! He must be knee deep in a recruiting drive.

lol Recruiting for what exactly?

When all of the evidence is being covered up, clearly manipulated, and denied to us without reason by the controlling powers that be, we're left with only the objective questioning and analytical logic of what's missing and why.

Say, that IS a nice propaganda catapult /u/WideAwakeNWO has there! He must be knee deep in a recruiting drive.

When all of the evidence is being covered up, clearly manipulated, and denied to us without reason by the controlling powers that be, we're left with only the objective questioning and analytical logic of what's missing and why.

I didn't say that white people want to murder every black person.

And I didn't say "white people as a whole."

I'm talking about the dominant majority of the white population. The 65% or 70% of whites who support the police after every one of these horrifying stories of abuse.

I apologize if your feelings were hurt when I pointed out that the problem is white people and the overwhelming support of white people for police brutality. But we need to come to terms with it because white support for police brutality is the single biggest obstacle to change.

You need to confront your white friends and family and get them to agree with you, or this will go on for another 400 years. The first 400 were hard enough; we can't allow this to go on for even ONE more century.

But it's going to have to be up to white people to stop it. Because they're the ones who allow it and applaud it.