If you really want to know what is true, be very careful with things like "What does /r/conspiracy think of this guy?" If you want to use this forum effectively view it by /new. Consider the content of the post before looking at the comments. Be aware that there are active disinformation agents here and everywhere else that there are large numbers of people. Certain topics will be downvoted hard, certain opinions will be downvoted hard. Ignore the voting and think for yourself. Do not make your decisions based on consensus opinion. Think through evidence yourself.

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This is where you (and many other "alternate sources") lose me. Reddit has millions of users, the organized effort to "hide the truth" would be overwhelming.

I have more but this is already too long.

Air Force pdf Air Force seeks software http://www.scribd.com/doc/51066167/Online-Persona-Management

U.S. Military Launches Spy Operation Using Fake Online Identities

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/online-persona-management_n_837153.html

US military cyber force activated Operation Screaming Fist is go

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/19/24th_air_force_activated/

Astroturf and manipulation of media messages | Sharyl Attkisson | TEDxUniversityofNevada - [10:37] (youtu.be)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU&feature=youtu.be

JTRIG online persona's How Washington and its Allies Use Social Media to Topple Governments & Manipulate Public Opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqUztAX7ozw#t=12

Revealed: Pentagon spent millions studying how to influence social media

http://rt.com/usa/171356-darpa-social-media-study/

http://politicalblindspot.com/leaked-intelligence-agencies-running-mass-number-of-propaganda-accounts-on-social-media/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/us-military-launches.html

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ordered-software-to-manage-army-of-fake-virtual-people/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/exclusive-militarys-persona-software-cost-millions-used-for-classified-social-media-activities/

Air Force Releases ‘Counter-Blog’ Marching Orders http://www.wired.com/2009/01/usaf-blog-respo/

Persona management, Operation Ntrepid Operation Earnest Voice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid

Glenn Greenwald: How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

Glenn Greewld: Hacking Online Polls and Other Ways British Spies Seek to Control the Internet

GCHQ’s “Chinese menu” of tools spreads disinformation across Internet- “Effects capabilities” allow analysts to twist truth subtly or spam relentlessly.

The Guardian: Internet Astroturfing

BBC News: US plans to 'fight the net' revealed

BBC News: Pentagon plans propaganda war

Buzzfeed: Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America

CENTCOM engages bloggers

WIRED: Air Force Releases ‘Counter-Blog’ Marching Orders

Military Report: Secretly ‘Recruit or Hire Bloggers’

The Guardian: Israel organizes volunteers to flood the net with Israeli propaganda

The Guardian: Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war

Israel To Pay Students For Pro-Israeli Social Media Propaganda

It sounds like you are well equipped then to start looking into things.

This is where you (and many other "alternate sources") lose me. Reddit has millions of users, the organized effort to "hide the truth" would be overwhelming.

There absolutely is a social media campaign underway. There is evidence of it. Sometimes it gets posted on this forum. I'll try to find links.

A good place to start, if you are into reading books is 'Propaganda' by Edward Bernays. Bernays worked for the administration of Woodrow Wilson during World War I with the Committee on Public Information. 'Propaganda' is an instruction manual for controlling the opinions of a democratic population and you can recognize the techniques it describes in every day life.

http://www.whale.to/b/bernays_b.html

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Oh certainly this post doesn't give a disinfo agent anything to work with. I mean when you are considering other posts. There are some topics that get hammered with downvotes as soon as they are posted so people are less likely to see them, which is why I suggest sorting by /new.

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I hadn't heard of him before, so will have to look into what he has done before giving an opinion.

[deleted]

I see he has also written about Laurel Canyon. That was something I have been meaning to read about.

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I've read most of his books and think there are examples of hypothesis, but I don't recall any outright fiction, or examples of things "falling apart." Can you provide a couple examples?

/r/conspiracy also has a ton of facts interwoven with fiction. The fictional aspects are unavoidable (because some people intentionally spread lies to discredit the truth). You just have to use your mind and doubt everything.

Here is a link to a previous post describing a social media campaign: http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/2z2r6g/eglin_air_force_base_busted_gaming_reddit/

Be aware that there are active disinformation agents here and everywhere else that there are large numbers of people.

This is where you (and many other "alternate sources") lose me. Reddit has millions of users, the organized effort to "hide the truth" would be overwhelming.

I would say the major manipulation around here comes from Jewish neckbeards who have joined organizations such as the JIDF (Jewish Internet Defense Force), which really became active during the 2014 invasion of Palestine.

For a while, this sub had a documentary about Hitler stickied in the sidebar, and that really demonized us in their eyes, to the extent that there is an ongoing campaign to demonize /r/conspiracy as "racist" and since then every post, regardless of content, is downvoted by bots.

Check the new queue and you will see most posts sitting on 0 points on account of this.

So yeah, I just wanted to say that more so than government operatives trying to keep a lid on things, it's independent, volunteer groups trying to paint those who criticize the policies of the Israeli government as "kooks" or "tin foil hat wearers" and thereby diminish the believability of anything posted here.

I've never read the book you've mentioned, though I have heard about MKULTRA and the manchurian candidate-type conspiracy theories. Brainwashing and mind control are fairly common topics in the more fringe-ish conspiracy theories, perhaps more often scoffed at than discussions of conspiracy to stage false flag terrorist events for political purposes or conspiracies to gain control of the food supply through GMOs with terminator genes, etc.

Not being particularly an expert on the subject, I'd put it around a class 3 in the conspiracy theory rating scale - that is, it has a lot of troubling unanswered questions and could go either way.

I suppose it's the same sort of deal as the terrorist attacks - they could be "false flag" events used in order to incite the public into a terrified state so they'll pass restrictive gun laws, for example, as part of an elaborate campaign to prevent populist uprisings.

The question is whether a person can truly be brainwashed, whether the science supports it. Unfortunately any such experimentation that would prove it would be highly unethical, though there are in fact sociological experiments like the asch and milgram experiments that demonstrate that even without any overt mind-control process, just the presence of an authority figure can cause a person to do things they would not normally do or things they'd not normally find morally acceptable.

I suppose an investigation into these matters ought to focus primarily on the process of persuasion and psychological manipulation. We know of the state in which hostages and prisoners can be found in after prolonged isolation. And we know of how effective propaganda and advertisements can be in altering behavior.

I don't know. I think it is plausible. It's something of a rabbit hole to get started on these questions.

As ChangeThroughTruth mentioned, the notion of propagandists and disinformation being prevalent online is a fairly common one here. It obviously panders to a sense of paranoia that may indicate insanity, and this of course feeds further into the sense of persecution that many conspiracy theorists feel. Just be wary of people who seem a little too eager to support any particular theory without solid evidence, and try not to fall into the belief that such people represent the majority of those who question the status quo view of politics or who call themselves conspiracy theorists. Such people might legitimately be nutters, and they might also be "disinformation" outlets.

There is some evidence to support this theory of social media propaganda, but I've probably talked long enough. If you're interested I'll dig around for a few links.

[deleted]

I'm not aware of that book. However, the one book that woke me up and led me down the rabbit hole was...drum roll....None Dare Call It Conspiracy. http://www.whale.to/b/allen_b1.html The book could never get a publisher therfore you will find many grammatical errors throughout but don't let that distract you from the content. Allen doesn't give us the intriqueces, but he does give us the big picture of how high level power and politics work.

[deleted]

Oh, I think it I'll be intricate enough. My point is he doesn't go far enough. I'll leave it at that. It started my path into questioning my world view. I then from that point started digging and haven't stopped since. Just look at the names who endorsed it on the 1st page. That gives it credibility in of itself.

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You are warned. Your world view will forever be changed and it will be like a big cataract taken off your eyes.

[deleted]

Remember, this book was released in 1971. The names are dated but the agenda ' s are the same. That's why these globalist sycophants are groomed from a very young age to carry the banner, unto the future.

It's definitely something that is emotionally disturbing. The idea of mind control, especially inflicted on children, upsets me greatly. It's hard to accept as a possibility just for the revulsion i feel about it - and I like conspiracy theories. It is likely much more difficult for normal people to consider.

Does the book go into any detail about scientific studies that have produced consistently reliable evidence that trauma-based mind control is in fact an effective process?

[deleted]

When I made this post I was really hoping someone would say "the authors a crack! Here are all the links disproving what he said!".

Well I can tell you that you could easily find that response on /r/skeptic, /r/conspiratard, /r/topmindsofreddit, the JREF forums, anyone associated with CSICOP, etc. Plenty of people who will readily dismiss it. As I said, I haven't read the book but reports of child abuse and pedophilia by people in politics and such are definitely not unheard of. Heck, just recently i watched a corbett report video about Jimmy Savile and all the fucked up shit he was into. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92T6cVlXcyg

It's possible he is a crackpot. It's possible that 10% of the things in that book are false, but bundled up with 90% truth. Maybe someone else here has read it, or is familiar with him or his writing, and can give more meaningful information.

I think the most honest answer you will find on this subreddit though is going to be "I don't know, but I'd like to find out". When it comes to determining whether an author or any poster is being honest, the best thing that I've learned is to look for the sources for their information, who they are citing. Reputability is handy, but not ironclad. Sometimes even those with golden reputations can put forth misleading things. Best we can do is look for evidence. Apart from that all we have is a lot of overlapping hypotheticals and anecdotes.

It's frustrating trying to unravel things like this. And if people know that you're trying to figure it out, you'll most likely be called some really mean names. It sounds like right now you're still at a point where you could put it aside and not worry about it. Heck, I try to ignore this kind of stuff most of the time, but I feel, i guess guilty for ignoring it because I've read enough that I've developed a belief that things aren't what they appear. If it is comforting, then when someone does bring you a list of links disproving everything in the book, maybe it would be best to believe them.

Another Reddit contributor offered this great piece of independent reporting on the global pedophile ring -- the "Pedocracy" as Dave McGowan calls it. http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/

Hi friend! This material is what woke me up as well, it is powerful, and I glad I came across this thread.

Its probably not a good idea to completely change worldviews based on one book, right? But if you are interested in learning more, there are lots of great resources.

If you don't mind me making some initial recommendations:

Recommendations

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/20bk8t/original_content_mkultra_the_cias_research/

Its a three part series that goes in depth in MK ULTRA that can be documented.

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/original_research_the_mountain_of_evidence_for_a/

A great post that goes into the same topics as David McGowan

http://www.wanttoknow.info/secret_societies/hidden_hand_081018

The Hidden Hand dialogue. This site here is hosting the writing of an Abovetopsecret post. An excellent read, not an end all be all but it gets the gears churning.

After this, I would recommend diving into the various conspiracy theories and letting synchronicity guide you. Tower 7 is a good place to start with 9/11. Be wary, there is a ton of bullshit out there by design.

If you are ever spiritually inclined and want to study more about the purpose of this illusion/matrix that we exist in, I recommend the Law of One material as a starter point. It is deeply esoteric but a great read. Online for free at lawofone.info.

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If you are ever spiritually inclined and want to study more about the purpose of this illusion/matrix that we exist in, I recommend the Law of One material as a starter point. It is deeply esoteric but a great read. Online for free at lawofone.info.

Yeah, you lost me.

There are a lot of new-age types that overlap with the conspiracy theorist types. Some of us conspiracy theorist types see the new age stuff as cultish and PSYOP-ish. It's something you get used to though. xD

Dave McGowan's site looks like shit, but the content is legit. His stuff on the Lincoln assassination, the moon landing, even if you don't buy it in its entirety, will at least get you thinking. The series he did on Dick Cheney shooting that guy in the face is mind-blowing. A lot of his material is pretty grim, but that's hardly unique in the conspiracy analyst crowd. His recent book "Weird Scenes Inside the Canyon," which is devoted to the 60s/70s pop music scene, is just as paradigm-shifting, but maybe a little less grim.

I don't understand why he doesn't get on Wordpress or something for that website, though. It looks 20 years old.

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...and I can understand that. I was beyond dubious at first as well. But I've got to ask...how much have you looked into it? I really hadn't. At all. But when I did, some weird shit starts to pop up. Quickly:

1- Are you aware ALL the video from ALL the moon expeditions has been "lost" by NASA? ALL of it? 2- Have you ever asked yourself why nobody's been back to the moon in nearly 50 years? After the US was able to knock out one landing after another perfectly in a mere three years? 3- Are you aware almost all the moon rocks allegedly brought back from the moon have disappeared or been revealed as fakes? 4- Were you aware that every moon expedition was launched and commanded media attention shortly before major Vietnam offensives were taking place?

You say you're a philosopher. I think that means you keep an open mind. Read ONE entry from Dave McGowan on the moon landing, then see what you think. http://davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html

Of course, this is probably not the best place to start, I guess, because moon landing doubters are pretty much the fringe of the fringe. But once you start looking at the facts without bias, the doubts start to creep in.

I ask you to read the link I've shared. Then I am genuinely interested in what you think.

Good luck to you.

[deleted]

Thanks for your civil reply. I trust you will read the link I sent you -- it's only the first part of a huge series by Dave McGowan about the moon landing -- so I will share quick links to at least a few of the points I made, to back them up.

LOST MOON LANDING FOOTAGE: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106637066

NO FURTHER MOON TRIPS I'm not talking about just the USA. Don't you think Russia or China would want to go on their own? For national pride? For military purposes? For scientific research?

MISSING/PHONY MOON ROCKS http://www.wired.com/2012/02/opinion-kloc-missing-moon-rocks/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_and_missing_moon_rocks#Dutch_moon_rock_proven_fake http://gizmodo.com/5888139/what-the-heck-happened-to-all-of-these-moon-rocks

People talk about Occam's Razor a lot, but I find it increasingly dulled in today's world.

Again, thank you for your civil response. I believe the more of Dave McGowan's work you read, the more you will be forced to adjust your world view.

Thank you again for your civil response.

[deleted]

Read the first Dave McGowan entry. Then see.

You're a literal guy, aren't you? Occam's Razor is a metaphor. I was playing off the metaphor.

1- Are you aware ALL the video from ALL the moon expeditions has been "lost" by NASA? ALL of it?

No, that isnt true. Even the link you give below says it was only the Apollo 11 footage (which for various reasons, may have been the only one that was faked imo).

This Reuters story says they were ALL lost: http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/616295/nasa_cant_find_original_tape_of_moon_landing/

This Popular Science article also implies, in its last paragraph, that ALL the moon landing video is gone: http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-amp-space/article/2008-09/brief-history-apollo-hoax

Other stories about the "lost" tapes focus on the original landing, but either don't mention the other landings or are ambiguous. I'd like to know more about that.

You'll find, as you dig deeper in ALL this conspiracy analysis stuff, that OMISSION of facts is just as critical as outright falsehoods.

Meanwhile, here the USA Today says Hollywood restored the original Apollo 11 tapes. And I love that first quote from the NASA guy. http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-07-16-moon-footage_N.htm

Thoughts on the moon rocks missing/being fake?

Thoughts on the Dave McGowan piece?

Here's some footage from that final exit from the moon that always makes me laugh: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOdzhQS_MMw

Have a great memorial Day Weekend. I appreciate your civil and (mostly) respectful correspondence. That's the way this stuff is supposed to go.

No, all of those articles specify Apollo 11 or 'footage of Neil Armstrong' (Apollo 11).

From the Reuters piece, no cap in in the original line:

The tapes also contain data about the health of the astronauts and the condition of the spacecraft. In all, some 700 boxes of transmissions from the Apollo lunar missionS are missing, he said.

Dude, it's strange enough that they would lose the Apollo 11 footage.

So rather than going around saying THEY LOST ALL THE FOOTAGE because one line in one article makes you think that, just stick with the easily verifiable fact that the Apollo 11 footage was lost. As the first supposed moon walk, this was the most historically important footage.

Okay, okay. You're right. Thanks for this exchange. Best of luck in your life journey.

And how did you like the YouTube video of that last "blast off" from the moon? With the rainbow colors? LOL.

Yes, I've seen all of this before. I'm just here to correct you on the missing tapes.

Taking everything with a grain of salt is very important. Many people who write about hidden things can become focused too much on one thing, skewing their lens of perception. Honestly, reading the allegory of the cave in Plato's Republic should be convincing enough in showing that we are born as slaves into invisible bondage. It's the foundation of The Matrix story, but written in ancient times.

One guy with tons of sources and vector points for further personal research is Dave Emery(spelling?) of Spitfire list. He is obsessed with fascism, but will give you things to check out on your own that will blow your mind.

I tend to disregard writings that try to sum up things in one unified picture as bullshit, because the world is much the same as it has always been. There are countless factions fighting for dominance in the storm of grey, and nothing is black and white.

Here's some good books on the topic:

• Project Soul Catcher by Robert Duncan
• Behold a Pale Horse by William Cooper
• CIA: Cult of Intelligence by Victor Marcetti

You are warned. Your world view will forever be changed and it will be like a big cataract taken off your eyes.

...and I can understand that. I was beyond dubious at first as well. But I've got to ask...how much have you looked into it? I really hadn't. At all. But when I did, some weird shit starts to pop up. Quickly:

1- Are you aware ALL the video from ALL the moon expeditions has been "lost" by NASA? ALL of it? 2- Have you ever asked yourself why nobody's been back to the moon in nearly 50 years? After the US was able to knock out one landing after another perfectly in a mere three years? 3- Are you aware almost all the moon rocks allegedly brought back from the moon have disappeared or been revealed as fakes? 4- Were you aware that every moon expedition was launched and commanded media attention shortly before major Vietnam offensives were taking place?

You say you're a philosopher. I think that means you keep an open mind. Read ONE entry from Dave McGowan on the moon landing, then see what you think. http://davesweb.cnchost.com/Apollo1.html

Of course, this is probably not the best place to start, I guess, because moon landing doubters are pretty much the fringe of the fringe. But once you start looking at the facts without bias, the doubts start to creep in.

I ask you to read the link I've shared. Then I am genuinely interested in what you think.

Good luck to you.