Uh... the Earth doesn't have to be flat for one to be able to see the sun and the moon at the same time

But if the earth was flat, then the moon and sun would be visable at diffrent pan points, without requiring going around a ball. Full moon night in china and the sun over america, if the earth is flat, is a picture that would be able to be taken, right?

I don't get what you're saying. All I know is I've seen the moon while the sun was up in the afternoon. I'm not sure if that proves or disproves anything though

I have seen a daymoon as well. I was told it's the reflection of the moon off the ocean from the other side of the world. But even that explaintion has more holes than hollow earth. I know there are those that will roll their eyes, but these are the same people that are more concerned with finally procrating then actually taking a look at the stage, and question what is prop and what is person.

I think you misunderstand the timing of the earth's rotation and moon's revolution. The moon isn't always on the opposite side of the earth from the sun... it's movement doesn't align to a 24hour period. Sometimes it's up for half the day and half the night, it varies.

okay, let me show ya an example of the flat earth model, and then you show me a pic of the moon and the sun at a high altitude over two places that should be on opposite sides of the planet. How much more clearly do I need to make this? It's not a call out, I really want to know, because if the earth is flat, and ya want to prove it, that picture does just that.

--If the earth were flat, and the sun and the moon moved around in a path over it like in that video, then neither would ever go down. We would have a direct line of sight to both, all the time.

--If the earth were flat, and the sun and the moon moved around in a path over it like in your video, then the moon and the sun would get bigger as they go overhead and smaller as they move away over another part of the disc. They do not change sizes like that.

--Here's a photo I took at sunset in March. Do you know what those long shadow lines are?? Those are shadows cast by objects (mountains, or possibly clouds) that are beyoud the horizon but when the sun goes away, around the curve of the earth, enough to no longer shine on us, it is still illuminating the sky above us, as it could only in a round-Earth model. Except it can't shine through those mountains, so the "stripes" in the sky.

THE EARTH IS NOT FLAT! Geez

Your first two points are not correct, due to distance involved, but that's okay.

After that, you seem to get pretty emotional. That's okay, I know that this isn't the sub for questioning strange things and possible abnormalities. That shit shouild be saved for a Tin Foil Hat Zone right next to the Free Speech Zone...

You are going to have to think harder and give us more than saying "are not correct".

I have watched the ball of the sun, and the moon, rise from behind the horizon and set behind the horizon dozens of times if not hundreds.

In your flat-Earth model in the video, that would be impossible. The sun and moon would always be up. How would "the distance involved" make that possible???

Dig in, my friend, and give me your reflection on that.

Maybe you would claim that as one gets further away it gets lost in the haze, can't shine through that much atmosphere. Okay, but like I said, I've seen it go behind the land and the water on cloudless horizons, I recommend trying to take a look someday.

Harder Try, and you don't have to be rude, or downvote outta hate. You can actually act like a real human and not some pos internet asshole. Think about it.

That was more clear. But I don't understand how you would achieve a picture like that even in the flat earth model. How could you get a picture that showed all of that detail at the same time? No camera can see that far and in that wide of an angle at the same time. Even if the earth were flat it would still be huge. You're asking the impossible.

Just to clarify I don't believe in flat earth. But I also don't agree with your theory.

/u/SquareHimself presents that very optic opition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPlFbL26Bf0

I saw something just like this the other day. It happens all the time.

now that's what I'm talkin about. Can we get one from a higher altitude? Higher the better, as it's harder to refute, certainly because if the flat earth model is true, then the sun and moon are the same size, for the most part, so a high alt. shot would provide both orbs. It'd be the nailed it, right? I'm just sayin', if i wanted to prove without a doubt the earth was flat, that's what I'd do. But I don't personally have resource like that, and I get that's part of the deception, thus why I presented my question on reddit, so those with better resource than me can perhaps settle my mind on this thing once and for all. I know no one is obligated to, and other than the saran wraps, I've really appericated everything in the thread so far.

I believe in a flat world. A high altitude horizon shot alongside the superior-mirage (as they call it) is all the evidence one needs.

It's obviously flat and the only way around that is denial. Cognitive dissonance is incredible.

EDIT: The high altitude balloon linked to in this post provides a view of the sun and the moon higher up.

So if the earth is flat, what's on the other side?

Wouldn't we be able to just drill straight through?

Why haven't we seen any other flat planets anywhere else in the observable galaxy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kola_Superdeep_Borehole

we cant actually drill that deep

Even at that, how has no one been to the "edge of the world" than? Surely with the speed our transportation vehicles anyone could reach the edge in less than a week if flying.

There have been Bird's team went, saw and then fell silent. And all the nations agreed that you can't even bring a certain amount of fuel withen so many miles of antartica as well as the flights that go over are never avaliable and could easily just pass the ice sea wall (icywall..that's awesome) and create the illusion. You're assuming it's legal to fly to the edge of the world, and it's not. Your plane will shot. You're lil convoy through the tundra will be bombed. This is UN law.

No, its not UN law you stupid fuck.

How could you possibly believe this in 2015? Or is the year not actually 2015?

stupid fuck

The moment you went to insult I knew you wern't mature enough to have a conversation with, ya stupid fuck. =)

Whats it like living in your world?

i'd bet all my karma I'm happier than most people on reddit. So, by simple comparison, pretty sweet.

LOL

So if the earth is flat, what's on the other side?

Ask God. I didn't build this world.

Wouldn't we be able to just drill straight through?

No. The deepest we've ever been able to drill is about eight miles, if I remember correctly.

Why haven't we seen any other flat planets anywhere else in the observable galaxy?

Everything you've 'seen' from space comes from an extremely tightly knit group of elites that have total lock-down on everything above a low threshold.
What we see in the sky are lights, not worlds.

You are one crazy motherfucker bruh.

Shine on you crazy star.

He believes the Earth is flat AND the center of the Universe. I forget what religion it is, but they're pretty out there.

I'm a Seventh Day Adventist. My belief in a flat world is scriptural, but only shared with a minority even within the church I think. It's not a salvation issue, but it is extremely eye opening.

We're essentially the pinnacle of Protestantism. While the Sunday churches are turning back toward Rome, we still hold fast to that which is true.

So long as he hasnt' prescribed to the role of conspiracy thread troll, I'm cool with the belief system. Certainly more friendly than those that saran wrap the issue and circle jerk eachother over it.

Gullibility is different than cognitive dissonance. It is probably best to be aware of both. Learn how to answer these questions for your self and to your own satisfaction.

I applaud you for even having the idea to fly your own balloon up and pan around. You will have to research more mathematics to understand why this won't work. I think the small angle approximation might be worth considering as a basis for determining how high to fly the balloon. I would do this before jumping to a conclusion on this issue based off of some youtube video and an internet forum post.

The laws of perspective are what's in play here. We can see a flat horizon at 100,000 feet. If the world was a globe, this would not be possible. The curve would be huge at that height, which is exactly why this Red Bull Jump From 'Space' uses a GoPro to fake a curve (which, in this case, is far too much). Notice at the beginning: the horizon is flat.

The laws of perspective are what's in play here. We can see a flat horizon at 100,000 feet.

At 100,000 feet the curve becomes apparent.

Generally photos below that height don't see the curve because... It's a very very very big sphere and the amount of curve is almost indistinguishable. They also lack the correct FOV to see it. Of course at that heigh the horizon becomes quit obscured and many "measurements" that people do (i.e. photoshops of lines) are measuring a guess at where the horizon is.

If the Earth were flat I could see farther than the few miles to the horizon.

If the Earth were flat I could see the Rocky mountains fron the Atlantic ocean.

At 100,000 feet the curve becomes apparent.

There is no curvature at 100,000 feet.

Generally photos below that height don't see the curve because... It's a very very very big sphere and the amount of curve is almost indistinguishable.

This isn't true at all. It's actually a rather small sphere and the curve should be obvious at 10,000 and 20,000 feet based on the dimensions we're given. At 100,000 feet the horizon should be far below eye level and drastically curved if it's a ball, but it's always eye level and flat because it isn't.

If the Earth were flat I could see farther than the few miles to the horizon.

You can, with the aid of some sort of magnification. I already linked to an example previously,

If the Earth were flat I could see the Rocky mountains fron the Atlantic ocean.

Sure, but they're so far away that you can't distinguish them from the horizon... Not to mention there's stuff in the way and you would need some incredible lenses.

There is no curvature at 100,000 feet.

as far as I know it can be measured as close as 40,000.

. It's actually a rather small sphere and the curve

25,000 miles is massive.

At 100,000 feet the horizon should be far below eye level

You keep saying "should" like you know what that word means.

drastically curved if it's a ball,

No, not "drastically curved". 25,000 miles in circumfrence.

You can, with the aid of some sort of magnification.

HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Get a load of this guy.

Let me break out my telescope, which I regularly use to look at the moon and check out some mountains- oh wait.

Sure, but they're so far away that you can't distinguish them from the horizon

No. That's complete bullshit. The rocky mountains are HUGE and would be readily apparent from both the naked eye and "magic telescoping vision machines" long before they actually are if the earth were flat.

But they aren't.

. Not to mention there's stuff in the way and you would need some incredible lenses.

What, like the wide open plains?

In the whole middle of North America there's nothing but flat land for miles. And yet... no Rocky mountains- even with my magic telescope i use to look quite closely at the moon. Staring into the horizon from the midwest the horion is nothing but flat. That horion is nothing but prairie and sky. There's no rocky mountains getting muddled in there. It's also why climbing up something, like a mountain or tall building lets you see farther.

Same goes for coastal mountain ranges viewed from the Pacific. I can't see them becuase they're obscured by the earth but because they're "too far away".

But I have noticed the curvature with my naked eye when flying at 30,000 feet on a commercial airliner...

I hear this statement over and over again and I must say I recommend taking another look with fresh eyes and a course on the laws of perspective. Also, perhaps the windows of your plane created a false curvature.

I've seen the moon and the sun together in the sky like this plenty of times but that doesn't remotely prove that the earth is flat.

-.- did you read the thread yet? A) I know that, thanks. How many times do we repeat? 7 or 8? But a super high altitude shot, full pan scan, like /u/SquareHimself suggests, would be the final answer to the conspiracy. It would either be proven or disproven without a doubt. That's my question and point.

It happens all the time.

According to the title of the video you provided, it is a rare event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPlFbL26Bf0

Bad title is bad.

[deleted]

I'm really hoping so. Certainly following the request to keep my eyes open and awake. I've heard people tell me it's the jewish and christian churches, but they haven't shut down the heavens and make the rain come not at command, so when I see someone that fits the description that very text presents, I shall know them, I hope. Great deception and all that.

The two witnesses are the Old and New Testaments. It's the Word of God that has the power to shut heaven that it rain not.

Zechariah 4 speaks on this in the Old Testament.

Thank you /u/SquareHimself, I will look into this.

The flat earthers are just here so that conspiracy theorists can get lumped in with them and make it easier for them to be discredited.

So none but the those evil shills are looking at this topic, and those that have been shilled. That's just an aluminum point of view...

The topic is one of two things - a coded message on plain sight - or, and the most likely one is this - occasionally there have been papers written in large publications that for some reason reference conspiracy sites on Reddit where people still believe the earth is flat. These people are not true believers, they are trolls, here to make those honest conspiracy investigators look nuts via guilt by association. It's been done and it will be done again. The flat appeared immediately after the Hollow Earth frauds got run out - I would not be surprised if they were the same people.

The question I have for the flat earthers is, why do other celestial bodies - that can be seen through a telescope - appear to be spherical but the earth is flat?

If the earth is the center of the plain, it works, but also, those celestial bodies are shown to you by a nazi frat house, so I'd accept those pics with a grain of salt. And I know I know, you can see it with your own eyes, but your own eyes have already been told what to see.

there are telescopes on Amazon for under $1000 that allow one to see all the way to Jupiter's great red spot

Now I kinda want one.

/u/redvelvetpoptart is a telescope/astronomy expert if you have any questions about it

I'd recommend a Celestron AstroMaster 90 EQ. It's $200 but you can make Jupiter out in very clear detail.

imo, people that believe in a conspiracy (or think it may be possible) probably aren't able to prove it,

obviously there are conspiracies we just have no way of proving valid.

But this is one that does. That's my point. We can prove it with a simple pan shot and a ballon. I'm pro-flat earth theory for the record, even if it's incorrect, to be able to have so many studies and that much math in favor of the flat earth model, and there is alot, that's just amazing isn't it? Like the biggest coincidence ever.

In Australia i plainly see the mood during the day, most days.

Same here in India. I don't remember if it was always like this.

I don't think you appreciate the scale of things. I briefly watched the video and seem to have 33km in my mind as the height of the video. I think you would need to use points of reference that were at least 600km increments. Increments smaller are going to always look the same because of calculus.

2014—24 October – Alan Eustace, a senior vice president at Google, reached 41,424 metres (135,906 ft) on a balloon and returned to Earth by a parachute jump.[3]

The highest balloon is 41km. This balloon idea is futile. Go become a rocket scientist and get back to us. (I am serious.)

The earth is not flat. /thread.

How do you know, have you ever been up there?

Nope. Never been to the Grand Canyon either, but I'm pretty sure it's there.

Space isn't some secret place that only the government has access to. Shit, all you need is a big ass balloon and a GoPro to see for yourself.

But hey, if you like we can play the "nothing is real unless I personally experienced it" game, and I'll just pretend I'm the only living thing in the universe and everything else is a hologram or halucination of my imagination.

Nice fallacy. Try driving/launching your own rocket into space. Yeah, you can drive to the grand canyon, but can you get out of the Van Allen Belt? Launch as many balloons as you want, wont get high enough. Keep believing what NASA tells you. I'm not saying one or the other, but do we as people truly know? We are told this by a gov organization. That's all I'm saying.

It's not a fallacy at all.

• You can see the curvature of the earth from sub-orbital altitude. (you can actually use math to know how far you can see based on a sphere and your height from the ground, and the math works.)

• There are thousands of commercial satellites currently in operation. I personally experienced the effects of that when I was an XM Radio subscriber.

• We have GPS which ONLY works because there are satellites in orbit, and uses the rules of relativity to work (how cool is that?)

These are things I can personally experience.

Let's not talk about private companies going into space now, other nations' governments, or the fact that the physics of round, orbiting bodies has allowed us to land objects on other planets.

I have yet to read anything by any Flat Earther ever, that punches holes in the scientific facts that not only define the ability for us to do all of these things, but also provide us with repeatable, mathematically sound evidence that yes, the earth is a spherical planet in orbit around a spherical star, in a disc-shaped galaxy. If you would like to show me some links to peer reviewed documentation that says otherwise, then please do. Otherwise... LOL flat earth.

Low earth orbit !== space travel.

Edit: I should note, I'm not sticking up for flat earth, I'm just questioning. Because we don't truly know. We are told, but never experienced it...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

But hey, if you like we can play the "nothing is real unless I personally experienced it" game

Also, you're missing the point. If I can actually see evidence of the earth's shape without even going into space, who cares if it's space travel or not?

Where is the proof? Send me a vid or something to prove your point...

We are told, but never experienced it...

After everything I've said, what could I possibly show you that would make you believe?

I wanna be sent up, like we all do. Sadly, that wont happen. Like I said, low earth orbit !== space travel. So do we have GPS satellites, yeah. But, have we been to the moon or beyond the Van Allen Belt? Just asking questions, homie, and playing devil's advocate.

I can't say how far humans have gone, but I'm pretty damned sure we've sent probes to the far reaches of the solar system. The Van Allen Belt has always been a bit of a problem for me, especially since that statement last year about finally working out how to survive getting past it or whatever he said. But back in the day, they just slapped up some mylar and said, "that should do it!"

Astronauts have actually talked about seeing things as particles shot through their brains.... But I never looked at the numbers for cancer in apollo astronauts, so I have no idea if there's a correlation or not.

All this said, we were talking about whether the earth is flat, and whether humans have left orbit doesn't really have a bearing on that, because even low earth orbit requires a spherical earth.

. But back in the day, they just slapped up some mylar and said, "that should do it!"

This is an important point.

The particular video everyone refers to as saying "we can't go past the Van Allen Belts" never actually says anything like that.

The point the speaker was addressing is that yeah, this isn't the 1960s anymore. We need better methods of doing it. People got by in the past because the exposure time was so brief. Whatever our current model of space-exploration craft is needs to meet a modern metric of safety and design. Back in the 1960s we realized we could launch people to the moon in rickety tin cans. However, we've moved beyond that and want to find a better way of doing it.

LEO doesn't necessarily need a sphere. The earth could be shaped like a egg and it could produce the same effects. If it was an egg shape (horizontal), then what is beyond the poles, mainly the south. Which no one is allowed to discover/explore. I'm not saying I believe this shit, I'm just saying, what if.

You have to admit, they are keeping the south pole on lock down. Try to fly towards it, and you'll get shot down. Why?

You have to admit, they are keeping the south pole on lock down. Try to fly towards it, and you'll get shot down. Why?

wha? You're going to have to link sources for that. I've never heard that before.

Good luck trying to get in.. You do it rouge? You get shot down.

Edit: I don't have 40k to site see.

I really hope you mean rogue. :P

I didn't see anything in the wiki about travel restrictions though?

Yes, I meant rogue. Guinness clouds my thoughts. I'm not here to argue, just a thought exercise. Just playing devil's advocate. I don't believe the earth is flat, but what if they are lying? That's my point..... Cheers yo, this last Guinness == my sleepy time, lol.

cheers. Enjoy your weekend.

gute Nacht..

Thank you for showing everyone an example of what saran wrap looks like.

^ What he said

But hey, if you like we can play the "nothing is real unless I personally experienced it" game

Also, you're missing the point. If I can actually see evidence of the earth's shape without even going into space, who cares if it's space travel or not?

Same here in India. I don't remember if it was always like this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism

At 100,000 feet the curve becomes apparent.

There is no curvature at 100,000 feet.

Generally photos below that height don't see the curve because... It's a very very very big sphere and the amount of curve is almost indistinguishable.

This isn't true at all. It's actually a rather small sphere and the curve should be obvious at 10,000 and 20,000 feet based on the dimensions we're given. At 100,000 feet the horizon should be far below eye level and drastically curved if it's a ball, but it's always eye level and flat because it isn't.

If the Earth were flat I could see farther than the few miles to the horizon.

You can, with the aid of some sort of magnification. I already linked to an example previously,

If the Earth were flat I could see the Rocky mountains fron the Atlantic ocean.

Sure, but they're so far away that you can't distinguish them from the horizon... Not to mention there's stuff in the way and you would need some incredible lenses.