The reason no one is doing anything is because none of us are allowed to read it. . .If anything we should spam call Police in Washington and demand that they arrest these imbeciles and we the people try them all in court for Treason Against the Constitution, but that will never happen.
We have a bunch of chapters leaked. But that alone is illegal. The government should be protecting us so therefore they shouldn't be keeping legislation from us. That's something to protest in itself.
We shouldn't get the police involved because they aren't on our side anymore. They don't protect the people from the government, they protect the government from the people. The only way we can have success is if we peacefully and legally make an annoying ruckus. Emphasis on the peacefully and legally because we're already labeled crazy in the eyes of the general public so the smallest of slipups gives the msm free reign to discredit our entire operation.
Neighbour from the north here, anything we can do to help
We are part of the TPP negotiations. We're just as involved in the process and will be just as affected by it as our American neighbours. We need to help ourselves. We're all in this together.
Australian here. .oh wait it's us too. Maybe we need to get /r/ameristralia and what ever the new zanada one is to join forces. New ameristralealanada ?
Well, it wouldn't necessarily be peaceful, especially because they are probably going to send their dogs (cops) after us in full battle rattle just like the battle for Seattle.
It's worth a shot I guess but any sort of protest is shut down from the start. Even if we don't slip up, they'll bring in provocateurs to slip up for us. There really is not much we can do.
the legitimate protesters will outnumber the provocateurs. As in other recent protests, it will be easy to recognize them by their behavior. Everyone has a high-quality video/still camera on them at all times. Call the provocateurs out, surround them, force them to break character/reveal themselves and take video/photos.
But there's an upper limit to how well they can blend in. If it's an organized, peaceful protest, anyone kicking windows or otherwise blatantly disregarding a non-violent directive will stand out.
On that same note - might sound weird but has anyone actually READ the bill? Is anything that's circulating in esoteric circles even real? How do we know it's true?
On that same note - might sound weird but has anyone actually READ the bill? Is anything that's circulating in esoteric circles even real? How do we know it's true?
There have been leaks of potions of the proposed TPP by Wikileaks. No politician has denied the truthfulness of the leaked documents. They merely downplay the severity, trying to portray it in a positive light. There will be no positive outcomes, unless you are part of the .00001% and a majority owner of a giant multinational corporation.
This here I do not understand. If you can leak some of it, why not all? It's almost as if someone is allowing select parts to be leaked. Maybe it's a frog / boiling water thing to soften the blow?
But it's being kept secret from the people it affects. Until after it is immutable law.
might sound weird but has anyone actually READ the bill?
Doesn't sound weird at all. And thanks to Wikileaks and some very brave souls who've leaked the documents, you can read parts of it yourself. Here's what's available to read right now.
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land;and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
In Reid v. Covert, SCOTUS said: "This Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty."
That is very clear.
This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land
You've completely misunderstood that section of the Constitution. Thankfully, SCOTUS has repeatedly made it clear that the Constitution comes first. Reread that paragraph. It doesn't even slightly imply that treaties supersede the Constitution. It simply says that we must abide by treaties also. However, the Constitution IS the US. Without it, there is no treaty. Any treaty is by necessity secondary to the Constitution.
I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the US Constitution. Because if you knew what was in it, you would realize how preposterous your suggestion is.
The Constitution defines treason. You obviously are not familiar with it; in no way, shape, or form do this week's votes on fast track authority constitute treason.
The problem is the people who are shitting their pants don't actually know a single thing about this. Fast track authority has been in effect for decades, trade bills are always handled this way, and ongoing trade negotiations are always secret until they are ready for consideration by Congress.
So wise ass just because they been fucking us like that for years,its fine to keep doing it ?
You them one of those google it intellectual bullshiters ?
Any time I try to bring up this fact in other threads I get downvoted. You can tell the powers that be have their bots running full swing. Or maybe public opinion really is that gay marriage is more important than the freedom of the entire world....
So we arent allowed to have Any news until the tpp is finally out of negotiations and goes to congress?
News is news.
But really, so many events lately that consume the daily news coverage right after the passage of fast track? Since the timing of the making and release of judgements by the Supreme Court is discretionary, it makes you wonder. Obamacare and gay marriage, both long standing issues, decided now. Who's coaching these guys?
Isn't this normal? They negotiate what should be in a treaty then make it public for Congress? Or is it not going to be released at all to the public even after Congress gets it?
It will be public when it goes to congress and another 11 legislatures to be voted on.
However In the us the fast tracking means that it will be debated a maximum of 3 months and there will only be a yay or a nay (no changes are allowed at that point).
I was being sarcastic, because right now isnt a special time for the tpp. I guess thier going to call everything a distraction for the next couple years till it gets out of negotiation.
The TPA passed the senate. Basically it set up the ground work for the TPP to pass. Part of what the TPA does, if I remember right, and what is part of the term "fast track" is that nothing is even allowed to be fillibustered. It's fucking crazy.
Maybe the reason people are downvoting you is because the suggestion that TPP will destroy the freedom of the entire world is so preposterous that no one can take you seriously after you say it.
TPP is a trade agreement between all the major countries in the world and all the major corporations in the world that is giving the corporations some government and some unconstitutional powers with limited restrictions. Essentially it is establishing a one world government in which the corporations make the laws and the citizens' rights are stripped from them. And that's just what we know from the 4 parts out of 29 that have been leaked so far. I'm working on making bullet point summaries of each of the chapters and when I'm done, I'll put them in the original post.
It's not that corporations are signing the document, but the document gives them the specific right to nullify anything they don't like in an international court. You raised minimum wage, bam get sued for restraint of trade. You limit sales of alcohol or cigarettes, bam sued. Special labels for dangerous products? Naughty people. Bam, sued.
An example of this (that was probably the inspiration for the agreement) was a lawsuit between a cigarette company and I believe either Australia or New Zealand. In summary, the government wanted to dissuade it's people from buying cigarettes so they made a law that packages had to be labeled in gruesome pictures of lung cancer and rotten teeth to make sure that the consumer was well educated about the effects of smoking before they made the purchase. I believe there was also a heavy tax on cigarettes too but I'm not sure, this is all from memory.
Basically the cigarette companies sued the government because they were costing them sales with their laws. I don't think they won but that's the type of power this agreement is trying to give to corporations. The ability to manipulate the laws of it's cooperating countries at will for their own monetary gain. I personally do not believe that power over so many countries should be given to a group that blatantly shows no concern for anyone but themselves.
A one world government sounds pretty good. Leveling the playing field like the European union has done makes life a lot easier. No visas, work anywhere, live anywhere, one (or two) currencies so no exploiting exchange rates, same laws and regulations everywhere, more equal society, easier to trade. Global laws and regulations could end tax havens.
TPP is a trade agreement between all the major countries in the world and all the major corporations in the world that is giving the corporations some government and some unconstitutional powers with limited restrictions.
Your ignorance is staggering.
Before you head out in the streets with your pamphlets and your megaphones, maybe you should take five minutes to get up to speed on a bill you obviously don't know a single thing about.
... a trade agreement between all the major countries in the world ...
Did you really just say that? You have the balls to post a thread screaming in all caps and you don't know the first thing about it?
Here's a hint for you: It's the PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP. What do you suppose that world PACIFIC indicates?
I'll tell you the countries that are participating in this treaty and see if you can't figure it out.
Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, the United States, and Vietnam.
Note: That's TWELVE countries. Not "all the countries in the world." See anything those twelve have in common? Just ask me and I'll tell you; I'm sure you won't be able to figure it out on your own.
... a trade agreement between all the major countries in the world and all the major corporations in the world ...
Did you really just say that? You have the balls to post a thread screaming in all caps and you don't know the first thing about it?
Corporations are not signatories to this treaty. It is not a treaty "between" corporations and countries.
You really should be ashamed of yourself. You make this sub and people legitimately opposed to TPP -- like me -- look like shit.
I swear you are probably working for the people trying to pass this bill, and your goal is to make opponents look like fucking morons.
Have you read the agreement or are you just a blatant shill? No corporations are not signatories but they do have rights expressed in the agreement. And I said major countries. Not all countries in the world are apart of it and some countries that are not negotiating it (therefore not mentioned in the document explicitly) will be under it's laws. The agreement is with the entire EU so if the UK stays in, they will be held to it's regulations regardless of whether or not they have anything to do with it's passing. Are you aware that the TPP is not a stand alone agreement? It compliments the TISA and TRIPS agreements which have separate terms which are referenced in the TPP so if you have not read the TISA documents, you cannot have a full understanding of the TPP
TTIP is the Transatlanic Trade and Investment Partnership, which is what you're thinking of in relation to Europe/US trade negotiations. It's considered a sibling of TPP, but it's not the same trade agreement.
Just to nitpick, the TPP doesn't apply with the EU. That is the TTIP, or the Trans Atlantic Investment Partnership.
There's a good number of "trade deals" being worked out and all the T's probably cause confusion.
The use of "all caps" is absolutely justified in this instance is absolutely justified. From what has been leaked so far, albeit only a few of the sections, it is clear to me that this trade agreement has the potential of seriously affecting the citizens of the U.S. In a negative way such as never seen before. What has passed so far is a "fast track" provision that will allow the bill to pass on an up or down vote. That means the Senate will need only 51 votes for passage as opposed the 60 that is normally required according to Senate rules.
Don't you find it more than curious that this is one of the rare cases that the GOP is 100% in support of the President while all but 13 Dems were opposed to fast tracking. As it stands, the TPP is almost guaranteed ratification with very little in put from the citizens of this country. Ratification can only fail if senators are heavily pressured by their constituencies.
This is the Atlantic version of the TPP. This is a trade agreement of the same breadth of the TPP, but with Europe and the United states. This leaves Africa (no one really gives a shit), South America(there is ongoing discussion of one with them) the middle east, Russia, China (trade relations are normalized however,) and small satellite countries out of the equation. Really everybody else is in on it. This is an unprecedented amount of countries being apart of a "free trade" agreement. If this fails horribly, those countries fail horribly, the world fails horribly.
The fact is that major corporations lobby groups are being given an unprecedented amount of control over what is in the agreement. This is basically collusion.
Another step in corporations having more rights than citizens and profit margins of a few already right people being put above the safety/needs/health of the rest. At least thats what my limited understanding of it is. I would LOVE to know more but you see this bill that could have huge implications is classified from the people who would be affected and that fact that some of it was leaked is a crime. That, in the very least, is a huge red flag even if you're not one to buy into hoaky conspiracy theories. The fact that this government is supposedly by and for the people yet we the people have NO say and don't even get to read this.
Everyone always says "Do something!" as if we're all sitting around with our bags packed waiting for the trucks to pick us up and take us to a detention center.
There's not much the average citizen can do.He's already written his senator (got a form letter response) called his representative ( they took a message) protested (he's on a watch list now) and he's even stopped voting (they didn't notice)
He wrote his local newspaper editor (shills labeled him a kook and nut job) so other than wait, there's not much he can do.
That's not enough. That's what you're told is all you can do so that you feel small within the system. The senators and representatives want this so they aren't going to listen to your couple of letters and private protests. That's why I'm talking about interrupting the mainstream news sources and sharing as much in-depth information about this as possible.
Why are there so many people here that have given up hope? Are you masochistic or something? Losing hope while staying on this subreddit is like knowing you're about to get stabbed but staying completely still and watching attentively. If you're not gonna put up a fight then there's no reason to stay informed.
What I mentioned is how Americans should object when their elected officials refuse to listen to their concerns. When those peaceful, legal methods are purposely ignored, it comes a time to do more.
No one has given up hope. no one is running scared. We're waiting. Don't mistake waiting patiently for inaction.
And while it may be true that if you're not going to put up a fight, there's no reason to stay informed but if you are planning to put up a fight, there's no reason to go screaming all over the internet about it. Think Fight Club.
We need to strengthen and grow as a hive mind (by this I just mean a train of thought recognized as a certain demographic). If we stand together we shall not fail. If we continue to let them isolate all of us from each other we will all never get the courage to continue our journeys to excellence.
My worst nightmare is what If they simply pull the plug on /r/conspiracy? This place feels like the last bastion of rationality in a zombie apocalypse.
I wouldn't even know what to do if I didn't have you guys reminding me that we're the sane ones.
More like you are about to get stabbed but you are strapped down to a table with no way out. You can scream all you want, and we will.... But in the end, we are gonna get stabbed dude.
Like what? I spread information on the Internet. I speak to those around me and inform them of things. I take part in protests when they are warranted. What else is there to do?
Our very lives and our sovereignty have been up for grabs for a hundred years, we were born into a system of slavery and control.
Personally, I'd rather die than be a part of that, so when the day comes that I no longer can be my own person, I'll be planning the day I take myself out.
Don't you think we will need you in the inevitable revolution? Cmon now. We are already too far down the rabbit hole. Things are going to get interesting and the more people we have on our side to fight the better. Until then we wait to get more people on board.
Maybe, just maybe, you're in the minority opinion on this? Maybe no one's worked up about an agreement that isn't finished yet hence any talk about what it is or does is still speculation?
It's not speculation, we already have 4 chapters. And these are just the chapters about trade, supposedly only 5 of the 29 are actually about trade which is the most troubling part. They're making new laws for the entire world and we aren't even allowed to know what they are until 4 years after they are implemented.
Four years AFTER?!? that's insane. In other words, if this passes, we could be arrested for breaking laws that we weren't even allowed access to knowing about?
Four years AFTER?!? that's insane. In other words, if this passes, we could be arrested for breaking laws that we weren't even allowed access to knowing about?
He's lying to you. (Either that or is he just ignorant.) The full text of the treaty will be available long before it is voted on.
No, they're not. It's absolutely pitiful that you are raging and ranting like a madman, but you don't even know the most basic things about this proposed treaty.
There are TWELVE potential signatories. 12. They are not making laws for the entire world. They are negotiating a trade agreement that will have up to 12 member states.
Twelve.
Try to remember that number. T-W-E-L-V-E.
and we aren't even allowed to know what they are until 4 years after they are implemented.
You're so full of shit.
Can you really be this uninformed?
The full text of the proposed treaty will be public for months before it is voted on.
Who the fuck are you working for? Did you really think you could come in here and discredit this sub so easily? How much are they paying you to make people who oppose TPP look stupid?
Didn't I just call you out for being a shill a few seconds ago, Mr./Mrs. One Month Old Account That Almost Exclusively Comments On TPP Threads? Now you're trying to call me the shill? No company in the world could pay me enough to handle the endless barrage of hatred I have seen today. I'm not as easily paid off as you are.
And no, I do not post "almost exclusively" about TPP. Only over the past few days have I been talking about it. And whether you like it or not, I'm allowed to talk about it. When are you going to stop dodging and own up to all your ridiculous errors (or lies)? You may think you can hide, but believe it or not everyone reading this can fact check you and see your many errors (or lies).
He wrote his local newspaper editor (shills labeled him a kook and nut job)
Well, it might help if you had accurate information. OP can't give you that. He doesn't know the first thing about TPP. For example he claims that every country in the world is participating in this treaty. The actual number is 12.
If you write letters to the editor laced with stupid mistakes like that, then yes, you will be dismissed as a kook.
OP is probably a disinfo agent working FOR the people pushing TPP, and his job is to discredit the movement with his hysteria and his lies.
I haven't really had a bunch of people express interest in starting a protest, most of these comments are attacking my position or me personally. I assumed everyone was doing their part on their own. Meanwhile I've been working on simplifying the content of the leaked chapters to better inform the people here and the people I will be reaching out to.
seems like this TPP thing is beyond the average protest. I mean, we need to start electing people that matter - but that doesn't work either. There's really not a lot of direct action to take, action that would need to be completed by a lot of people on a large scale over time. years. this would need a popular movement where people actually did something like show up to Caucus and elect themselves and othe r people to office. not protest.
I agree. Throwing up arms won't solve this one. The root problems need to be solved:
How do we get all these corrupt representatives out of office?
How do we change the public's opinion of what matters to them?
How can we prevent corporations from gaining such a big influence on law?
Protesting helps, but I feel we need to make average Joe Schmoe give a shit about it. Otherwise, no matter how much is said out loud, it's falling on deaf ears.
Protesting helps, but I feel we need to make average Joe Schmoe give a shit about it. Otherwise, no matter how much is said out loud, it's falling on deaf ears.
may be too far gone. Seems a contingency of 3-5% of the population are what it takes.
[US: Consistent with paragraph 1] each Party [US propose;
AU/NZ/VN/BN/CL/PE/MY/SG/CA/MX oppose: shall make patents available for
inventions for the following] [NZ/CL/PE/MY/AU/VN/BN/SG/CA/MX propose: may
also exclude from patentability]:
(a) plants and animals, [NZ/CL/PE/MY/AU/VN/BN/SG/CA/MX propose:
other than microorganisms];
[JP oppose: (b) diagnostic, therapeutic, and surgical methods for the treatment
of humans or animals [US propose; AU/SG/MY/NZ/CL/PE/VN/BN/CA/MX
oppose: if they cover a method of using a machine, manufacture, or
composition of matter]; [NZ/CL/PE/MY/AU/VN/BN/SG/CA/MX propose:]
and
(c) essentially biological processes for the production of plants or animals, other
than non-biological and microbiological processes for such production.]
[MX propose: (d) and the diagrams, plans, rules and methods for carrying out
mental processes, playing games or doing business, and mathematical methods
as such; software as such; methods to present information as such; and aesthetic
creations and artistic or literary works.]
On page 30 of the posted document. I believe OP discerned the ability to patent these things by the fact that it states that parties MAY exclude these things, but don't have too.
I linked to the document above that. You could probably do a page search for each of those individual terms, I pulled them straight out of the document.
It's extremely sad that almost nobody in /r/conspiracy questions anything. They believe every single thing said to them without questioning it, as long as it's opposite of what the MSM says.
No, it means that each country decided what they explicitly wanted waived. It applies to everyone in the agreement. OP is a liar. And if you think of something that isn't listed, but should also be against it, it doesn't mean it's GOING to be copyrighted. These are just explicit rights in the agreement.
But OP literally took the list of things not to be copyrighted and said they'd be copyrighted. He either can't understand what he's reading or he's trying to purposely lie to people.
Yep. This is my red line. I will not accept any further selling out of my liberties to the highest bidder, especially to foreign countries and governments. I won't do it.
That's it, I'm done participating in this paradigm.
Gave you an upvote, but I'm curious if anyone could tell me how does TPP eliminate the market for generic pharmaceutical products? Without getting grossly into the nuance of it all (orphan drug designation, ANDA freezes through litigation, Hatch-Waxman extensions, variations in R&D duration, etc.) the way it works currently is that generally the effective life of a patent on a pharmaceutical product is 10-15 years after which (again without getting into the nuance of challenges to those patents, authorized generics, international variation of patent law, or the 180 exclusivity of first to file generics, etc.) generic manufacturers release generic versions, the branded original loses massive profit margin and as more generics come to market the generics begin to lose margin as well.
First, I'm trying to imagine what could be in the TPP that would alter this process to the degree that one could say "goodbye generics"? Pulling these out of my ass as examples but, are we talking like 40 year patent terms, alterations to the acceptability of bioequivalence in the generic approval process? I seem to remember reading there were potential changes with regards to generic labeling in the works that would create future potential liability issues, some issues with using authorized generic rights in place of cash settlements on litigation, but nothing overly extreme. Second, my mind is racing even trying to grasp all the repercussions of a market devoid of potential generic and/or biosimilar competition. Like, it feels like electric is zapping my brain even trying to picture that.
I have a pretty good understanding of what TPP encompasses in a general way, but it feels like a new heinous detail comes out of it every time I turn around. I guess that's what happens when you fucking hide a major piece of legislation from the public as if it's a plot to murder everyone.
From what little has been leaked Id venture to say the tpp kills the generic market because the meds can be patented in such a way that any producer of a generic can be sued because the product "too closely resembles their own" In that the active ingrediants would be the same even if other peripheral ingrediants are different. if Im wrong someone PLEASE correct me because I would LOVE to be wrong about this.
That person didn't quite understand - from what I've read, it's purely on the grounds that companies can sue pretty much anyone they want based on something as little as EXPECTED losses. Anything that cuts into profits.
The example I was given was if a private hospital is operating in a city, and a public hospital opens, the private hospital can sue the city for expected losses.
In fact the words "inflation" and "deflation" didn't even appear until after Jefferson's death.
A better quote, that is definitely Jefferson's,
And I sincerely believe, with you, that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies; and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.
"If the American people ever allow the private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and the corporations that grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered" -Thomas Jefferson
Iceland got the NWO out because they were informed and United in mind and spirit. They are also a homogenous population with one race, one language and actual solidarity. The USA's propaganda of "diversity" aka division crushes solidarity. Too many different types of people with different types of agendas. The USA has been the testing ground for the NWO policy and mind control for over 100 years now. People have been distracted and systematically dumbed down.
We are indeed, fucked.
I've lived in Deutschland from 1992 to 1999. France should be filled with French people. Germany should be filled with German people. This is controversial? USA will never have solidarity. This is a fucking mess of illiterate wage slaves.
We've been taught to sit on the sidelines and watch it all unfold for us, it's all we know how to do.
Act now like you've never acted before. Do something you've never tried before. Even just a call to your Rep saying you're paying attention now means they should too.
the average person is too dumb to follow politics beyond race/sexual orientation because they are too busy reading worldstar/perezhilton/tmz then they turn on CNN only to see a talking head validating the same bullshit they read online...people trust pundits way to much instead of doing their research and forming opinions for themselves and the dumbest of the dumb are those people who say "im not political"
You're an average person. Are you too dumb to follow politics? That's just a lie spread to control us. The reason people are mislead is because they aren't getting the truth from those pundits. That's why Step #2 is control those news agencies' social media platforms. We have to get our message in front of those people using the systems they rely on.
The reason people are mislead is because they aren't getting the truth from those pundits.
The reason people are misled (not "mislead") is because you are spreading misinformation. Your posts are filled with errors, or lies. I don't know if you're just ignorant, or if you are actively trying to sabotage opposite to TPP. In either case, YOU are the reason people aren't getting the truth.
im not an average person i have my bachelors in political science...im the average above average person, I've signed the TPP petitions and helped circulate them via facebook and email not to mention i always vote...we need to get the message out there via social media, but ultimately we need to get our message on the television to bad only RT will broadcast it, and everyone attacks them as pro-kremlin propaganda even when they tell the truth
TV isn't the most powerful form of media anymore because people have Netflix and Hulu and can get all of their news online now. I do think getting on TV would be very beneficial which is why I suggested petitioning the news stations to show the content on air. However, this isn't doomed to fail without televised coverage because online media is just as prevalent these days. If you have a suggestion of how to get on TV other that the steps I provided, though, I would love to add them to my post.
The average person isn't dumb, but everyone has been trained to be dumb,right from the start. We are fed dumb shit so continually that an average person with a modicum of intelligence and a reasonable ability to ask why is consisted superhuman.
Why do you put non political people in the dumbest of the dumb category? Some people, including myself, simply don't give a rat's ass because whether we have an opinion or not, it doesn't matter. World's going to keep spinning, and nothing we do can change it.
Where is all the anon hackers when we really need them? This is the perfect moment for them to shine. Hack everything and post TPP awareness everywhere.
The thing is, it is very likely not to be digitized anywhere.
For a congressman to even see it they have to enter a room guarded by armed guards that is not open to the public in anyway shape or form, and read a paper version. They are not allowed to take notes, they are not allowed a private copy. They have to commit the whole thing to memory.
Simply a question and not a criticism, if this is the case (armed guards, no public access, paper only copy and no note taking) where have these leaks come from? It can't all have been stored by memory, surely?
This I'm not entirely sure, I would imagine probably from a country that is not the U.S.A. The things that were leaked though were old drafts. There is no text from the current agreement on the internet, this does not mean the leaks are not credible though.
Legal marriage is really just a 3 way contract with the state for supposed "benefits". You always had the right to form your own contracts (e.g commonlaw).
In this TPP deal, would their be something now that would create an easier path for corporations in foreign nations to obtain U.S forces if they felt they were in threat? Oh lets say like getting your employees head chopped off, and hung on a fence. Showing something along the lines of terrorism.
If you mean strictly in a military sense, then no that isn't included in the chapters that we have so far. I assume that's a given, though, seeing as this is a treaty. Why do you ask?
You tossed out some 'main points' and then linked us to the 96 pages you are summarizing with no notations on where in that 96 pages any of those main points can be found.
Thats not how it works. If you want to make a straightforward and concise argument then you need to make the point, AND THEN cite where EXACTLY the text is, in the document you draw those conclusions from. Since you are referencing just a single document, page numbers and paragraphs will suffice.
For example:
•Posting and downloading copyrighted content online will become a federal crime regardless of whether or not t's
for commercial purposes and can result in a permanent ban from the internet.[pages 15-18, paragraphs 4-37.]
The way I see things, there's nothing that can be done at this point. The world is already so corrupt that even if the people put up a fight, legislation absolutely key to their agenda will be passed regardless.
Equality? That's what you call it? Nobody is saying that gays don't have right to be married, I'm just saying it's up to the states to decide based on a vote, not some 9 unelected, unaccountable supreme court justices.
No way does the Tpp and Gay marriage have equally consequences.
Nobody is saying that gays don't have right to be married
Sure they are, including 4 Supreme Court justices, Free Republic and Red State. And Fred Phelps' grave probably exploded.
I'm just saying it's up to the states to decide based on a vote
Well, the Supreme Court of the United States of America (and lots of lower courts) said no, it's not. Civil rights of a minority are not to up to vote by the majority. States can't violate the Constitution. It's also in the Consitution that licenses in one state should be valid in all states. That's why you don't need 50 drivers' licenses or marriage licenses. It wasn't until 1967 that Loving vs. West Virginia struck down laws against interracial marriage and during that time on a drive down South you could be married in one state, not married the next, then married again when you crossed the border. That's not a tenable situation if we're really one country.
not some 9 unelected, unaccountable supreme court justices.
No, that IS the role of the Supreme Court. They're the final interpreter of the Constitution and they interpreted based on the reasons outlined above as well as the equal protection clause (laws apply to all or none).
By your "thinking", your freedom of speech is up to popular vote and 9 unelected, unaccountable supreme court justices shouldn't be able to say whether you can or can't be thrown in prison for speaking your mind or whether this or that NSA policy is an invasion of privacy or whether you can be thrown in Guantanamo indefinitely.
Boy, you people here blow your gasket about free speech and Ellen Pao and trade deals and the NSA, but suddenly when the Supreme Court makes a proper, rational ruling it's "who are they and this pesky Constitution I keep hearing about"?
No way does the Tpp and Gay marriage have equally consequences.
Nobody is saying that gays don't have right to be married,
Well. Except for all 21 Republican presidential candidates, and nearly all GOP rank and file. Conservatives from coast to coast are saying that.
I'm just saying it's up to the states to decide
If you ever get some spare time, familiarize yourself with the 14th Amendment. You should read the whole Constitution, but until you have time for that, just check out the 14th. It will explain why you're wrong about how this is a state issue.
Oh heck, I'll post it right here for you:
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Incidentally, this is the same language that keeps states from infringing the 2nd amendment, or violating the 1st amendment.
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
I agree with the fact that we need to come together and overcome our pointless boundaries such as nationality and religion but this is not the way to do it. This is giving all the power to one individual group of people that have only their best interests at heart to the detriment of others. We can have unity without selling our souls.
Can't stop globalization, so get on board. It's not just a conspiracy it's inevitable in the long run.
The best thing we can try to do is preserve individuality while recognizing the greater world we live in... accepting others for who they are and together for a better world.
Imo, Star Trek saw it coming and got it mostly right in the values it tried to instill through the prime directive and the peaceful leadership qualities demonstrated by its captains.
I think you're confusing unity with a dictatorship. There won't be any accepting others for who they are. It's just that everyone will be sharing the same corrupt corporate leaders.
It's really easy to simply stop purchasing items that corrupt corporations sell. Stop giving them business. The people are partially to blame for this because they are too stupid to figure this out or too lazy to google.
This obviously doesn't apply to the items and services we are forced or coerced into buying, but the vast majority of things we buy don't have to come from corrupt corporations.
For starters, nobody should be purchasing products or services from near-monopolistic corporations or any company that profits from killing people. Sorry, that means you can't drink Mountain Dew and beer while watching old men in tights play with balls. Nobody should purchase cable/satellite for a variety of reasons. Nobody should be purchasing any vehicles below the top 10 percent (or whatever percentage you think is reasonable) most fuel efficient. Anyone who has extra time should figure out how to run biodiesel.
How many things do you buy that you could find at garage sales? How many things do you buy that you could make yourself? How many items have you replaced with new simply because you're too lazy to figure out how to fix the old one? How many things have you purchased because you were bored and had extra cash? I could go on and on, but hopefully you get it.
Basically, I realize that this will never work because people are simply too fucking dumb, but I find enjoyment telling retards how they can easily help themselves. Brando and baitin!'
Everything you buy, whether it comes from a yard sale, or farmer's market, or fucking Oxfam has involvement with a corrupt corporation. Whether it be the the vehicle they use, the clothes they wear, the metal used in the container that holds the organic beeswax they buy. Has cooperation from a corporation. Because no one is Amish anymore. Sorry, but I derive real pleasure from exposing the hypocrisy of sanctimonious, self righteous, and myopic 'revolutionaries'
Or perhaps they forget the slave labor that went into constructing their favorite Internet access device.
Everything you buy, whether it comes from a yard sale, or farmer's market, or fucking Oxfam has involvement with a corrupt corporation.
True, but does buying a used chair a a yard sale boost the profits of any corporation whatsoever? Maybe oil companies because of the gasoline, but you were gonna spend that gas anyway going to Home Depot for a new chair! "Involvement" and profits are two completely separate things. If this idea caught on, the corporations would be forced to significantly increase planned obsolescence to the point of it being very obvious to everyone, which should decrease the number of consumers because they would be outraged.
You're saying that all corrupt corporations would receive the exact same profits in world A where everyone buys as many used items as possible and world B where everyone buys everything new?
How am I a hypocrite? I never said that I buy 0 percent new items because that's nearly impossible, and how would you even know if I bought this computer used from a garage sale or not? Why would you even have a problem with somebody trying to cut down on landfill waste and corporate profits? What the fuck?
Actually the vast majority of things we buy do come from corrupt corporations, it's just that there have been so many mergers that it's hard to keep track. Unless you're living on nothing but items from the dollar store, you're supporting these companies with your weekly paycheck.
Unless you're living on nothing but items from the dollar store, you're supporting these companies with your weekly paycheck.
I do really well buying things on craigslist, garage sales, salvation army, etc. None of that money goes to the profits of any corporation. And it's cheaper.
I also ride my bike to any locations nearby that I normally use a vehicle for as long as weather permits it. I could seriously go on all day about how easy it is to have a great life without supporting mega corporations. Most people are simply too lazy to take 5 minutes and creatively meditate on how they will proceed with protesting. I protest all day every day. How about you?
I think the major problem here is that 99 percent of the people in this sub and elsewhere who cry about corruption can't separate themselves from their consumerist addiction. They are addicts who give money to people that they then cry about. It's pretty funny, actually.
That sounds great except that craigslist, garage sales, and the salvation army all get their stuff from major corporations. If we all did that, we would run out of stuff really fast. That's like saying one vegan will stop the slaughter of animals for food. If that's what you believe and want to do, it's fine but the major corporations probably don't notice or care.
Business isn't a problem. Corrupt government giving power to corrupt business is. If we were to take the salaries of the billionaire CEOs and give that money to the employees, everybody would have jobs and be able to only work a few hours a day and everyone would be happy. It's the fact that the CEOs want to line their pockets with even more money and become even more greedy that we have this issue.
If we all did that, we would run out of stuff really fast. That's like saying one vegan will stop the slaughter of animals for food. If that's what you believe and want to do, it's fine but the major corporations probably don't notice or care.
I am 100 percent anti-vegan, but I'll use your argument anyway.
If 95 percent of people became vegans, then the slaughtering of animals would slow down to a trickle. Using this same argument, if 95 percent of people educated themselves on which corporations use slave labor, pollute the environment, etc, then these corporations would be forced to produce goods that they can market as "slavery free" or "pollution-free." If 95 percent of people educated themselves on planned obsolescence, then corporations would be forced to produce "PO-free" goods. We already see this with "fair trade" and "humanely raised." Whether or not these terms are used correctly by the corporations, or whether they paid government officials for the regulations to be lax, is another story. It would then come down to the consumers again to educate themselves about the lax regulations, or corporations simply lying, etc.
The alternative is to "call your local representative," which will do literally nothing unless you pay the government official more than the corporation in bribes.
Or you can realize these globalists are going to do whatever they want and spend your precious time and efforts building sustainable farm communities and aquaponic greenhouses. When I realized politics is an illusion of choice by overlords whose aim is to keep us enslaved, my priorities first switched to "prepping" then to farming. Farming and teaching others how to be self-sustaining is the only hope we have to live through the nightmare (population reduction) these sociopaths are scheming up for us "useless eaters." Oh, and non-compliance and mass jury nullification.
Can I get one link to what the bad part of TPP is? I literally have no idea what it is, or why it's bad. However I do see the concern and suspicion with the events as of lately
Amen, brother. Gay rights in the States mean nothing if gays are still slaughtered in several countries all over the world. I guess the "Gay Community" only includes those living in the western hemisphere. Exactly .001% of the world's problems were solved by this.
If we're so weak as a country and a population that we get caught up and distracted this easily, then we deserve nothing better than TPP and all the bullshit that it brings with it. Better move out of the cities.
Even if you don't think all of us will be entirely affected by this, don't you think it's time for us to stop saying "fuck our kids, it's their problem" about everything?
While, yes, I do wish we as a nation would change our path, we won't. The majority are too stupid to see past gay rights and the confederate flag. So instead of worrying and wondering about what will or what might happen with the foxes running the hen house, those few of us who are aware need to begin taking steps to ensure that we aren't caught up in the aftermath.
Its the whole "sphere of concern vs sphere of control" thing.
I'm not advocating that we should stop trying to impart some wisdom, but I am saying that we need to be taking action to protect ourselves from this idiocy while we do it.
It's hilarious if you look at the top comments of all the gay marriage posts they're saying this week in news has been insane but they don't understand all this is a diversion
What would you guys do if you could build a community of like minded people to act from a place of power, instead of always reacting to what the government is doing?
I have an idea about organizing, but Im not sure many people can see past the real distraction: Expecting government to do something about it. If you are interested head over to /r/Commonwealths/ Its a project that has been on going. Lets talk what we can do instead of always talking about how bad things are, I have a lot of ideas that can bring about real power to change this.
Yeah I would say that's too much. You don't want to surprise people or shove it down their throats because then they'll be less open and receptive. We don't just need to get people to know that the TPP exists. A lot of people do know it exists, they just believe the lies of the government that it's a good thing and that it will bring in more jobs. We need to have a conversation with them explaining how it's dangerous and that's hard to do when you can't speak with them one on one and answer their questions.
I do, just not in the school setting. Hacking into a school's PA is a pretty wild idea as it is so I'm worried that people would just think you went crazy instead of listening to what you have to say. Conspiracy theorists are already labeled insane so you have to tiptoe through this because one slipup and everyone has permission to dismiss everything you say. They're looking for a reason to not listen to you because they are comfortable and don't want to be bothered. Don't give them that reason.
Exactly. I'm just stating the fact that if this sort of thing were to be passed I would no longer feel very safe in this country and would definitely be working on my second amendment rights.
Sorry, somebody linked to how to make a pipe bomb and I thought it was the same guy. By all means protect yourselves just don't be the one starting the violence.
Unless any action comes from it then it's intangible. A thousand useless well wishers won't get anything done. You have to inspire people to take actual action. Pull up a list of the Yeas and organize people in those areas to eliminate the vermin.
I'm American so I'm not as informed on European government as I should be therefore I didn't want to make any assumptions. The American government is already on it's way down since our dollar isn't worth anything, unemployment and welfare rates are slowly going up, and half the country is using Obamacare which the next president could vote out causing people that can't afford it to switch to private insurance which if timed out with a stock market crash (even if it's just a minor one) could cripple the American economy to a near unrecoverable state. That's why I feel that taking action on this issue is so urgent. We are that close to losing the American dollar and if we're already making world government laws, it would be an easy step to make a one world currency that everyone would be supporting. One world government, one world currency, one world leader. There are people in this very thread calling me crazy but it really could happen that fast.
I would post this, in fact I had a giant Facebook post all mocked up. But then I realize there's nothing we can do. Being labeled as a crazy lunatic or being told if it's a big deal it won't pass. Nothing will put this through the mind controlled thick headed American. This has been on the fast track the past century we can't stop a motion that has already passed.
Which claims specifically? I linked to the document and you can search the page for individual terms in your browser. It's also separated into individual labeled sections so it should be easy to guess what's in each part.
I was reading the article and it seemed to say the exact opposite of what you claimed in your post. So as a good OP, specifically point out where it says this horrible stuff. You make it seem like the apocalypse and other people make it out to be an international treaty that has pros and cons.
First off, it's not an article so obviously you didn't read it. Second, which horrible things are you talking about specifically...? My summary is exactly that, a summary of the entire document. If you don't give me a particular point, I can't tell you where it is. Also, as I said before and you ignored, you can search the document yourself in your browser.
Remember, no matter what is passed, the reality is the foundation all this crap stands on is fragile. It will be rough to unravel this kind of corporate hegemony, but we need to just keep being active, keep talking, keep thinking, and most importantly ALWAYS KEEP PUSHING. Its all we have at this point.
These guys proposed actions do nothing to remove the criminals from power. The only proper form of protest to run for public office. That means YOU become a Senator or Rep or Judge or President.
Once elected, officials can "represent" according to their own interests.
I hope that you don't mind that I copied and pasted some tidbits from your post about the TPP to my facebook post today.. I also linked to the wikileaks leak of the investment chapter to my facebook.
it's great that gay marriage is now allowed across the 50 states, but people have the right to know what is actually going on.
We could also engage in a form of non violent resistance. Patent trolling
File a patent on the mental process leading to 4 being the answer for 2+2
Have your genes mapped on 23andme and then declare an entire chromosome your intellectual property rtc
If enough people do this it overwhelms the system. Its a tactic thats been used before (for instance people who dont believe in welfare advocate everyone trying to get foodstamps etc to bankrupt it)
so glad someone realizes wth is going on. the TPP isn't understood, or it's just ignored. THIS: is how people wonder "how" shit hit fan with them totally unaware.
trying to make others aware is truly difficult as many are way to complacent in their ignorance of (fake) bliss. don't know if age matters, some young people may/or may not know,
the question is: HOW do we make people AWARE of it & WANT to do SOMETHING?
edit: i've been signing petitions, seems like for 'effing ever - but the 'regular' working person NEEDS to know.
edit 2: fuck it: everyone should just print info & hand it out to family, friends, co-workers (if it doesn't get them fired), we can't MAKE anyone do a damn thing, but at least we can get the info to them. i can do it -- can you?
I asked a co-worker if he had heard about the trans pacific partnership. He said "yeah, same sex couples can get married now". No
I tried explaining to him that TPP was a deal being negotiated in secret that could allow corporations to sue when their profits were being interfered with.
His response was along the lines of "Good, we can't keep bailing them out when they lose money."
He then said he loves America because he can walk down the street and look at the trees and the parks and doesn't see kids drinking out of creeks so we must be doing okay. As well as adding that we just shouldn't know about everything the government is doing.
I gave up on that conversation.
How do all of you talk to people about this?
I don't know how to spread the word when it seems that the majority of people don't care to understand what is going on.
It's sad but you have to fight fire with fire. That's the reason I made this post in all caps with a subtle level of almost fear mongering. That's how the msm gets the attention of the masses so that's what they respond to. People are raised with an egoic viewpoint where they don't care about anything that doesn't affect them directly. So you have to overcome this with the same scare tactics that the msm uses but with the truth about the TPP. I've listed off the main points of the IP chapter of the TPP in the OP so go through those and find which ones you think would get the attention of the people and start with that. Look at the tumblr feminism movements and the obesity and LGBTQ acceptance movements. People have no problem protesting and standing up for something as long as they feel they will be getting something out of it.
Main reason i dont do anything: fear of arrest. Of futility. Of being labeled insane. Of having to defend my position, rather than just attacking the enemy.
Frankly, i think we should fund a superpac and demand seats at the table. Try and break the rules because the rules haven been broken so many times by our gov and corps. 1 funded group that demands a televised response to this debate. Or in a townhall. Hijack the media. I wont protest unless we organize. Im by myself.
Great post and your summary at the end is fantastic . Is it possible for you to add references to the bullet points from the leaked chapters? I think it would add a lot of weight and that it would be good for reposting.
We are doing that. Everyone other sub is doing gay marriage and flags and we've got TPP. I don't expect everyone else to not talk about one of the biggest SCOTUS decisions ever. I just wanted one single place where we could stay focused on important issues while everything else is going on.
The end times apocalypse? Ok buddy that is a great way to get rational people to take you seriously. What's next, gonna blame storms on gay people bringing god's wrath?
I've gotten that complaint a lot. I'm actually a pretty shy guy, I have social anxiety. This entire post has been an unimaginable amount of stress that has lead me to nearly deleting it numerous times. But I really want to make a difference, regardless of whether or not this post leads to anything, and I remind myself it's always hard to make a change and that the greatest leaders always faced extreme adversity.
That post is essentially me digging deep and channeling that inner great leader in me to get people's attention the best way possible. As unorthodox as it may be, it's worked and if only 10% of the people here actually do something, that's over 200 people which is a great start. It doesn't matter if everybody likes me as a person, all that matters is that we see some real change.
Regardless, Gay marriage has been an ongoing issue for decades. It is a serious issue about human rights instead of a distraction from TPP. Activists like me have been fighting for Gay marriage in Texas for many years.
Despite my activism for Gay marriage, I still contacted my state legislators about TPP, signed petitions, etc. Just because some cannot follow more than one issue at a time does not mean the rest of cannot do that.
Also, the majority of Americans support TPP regardless of the valid viewpoints against it on this subreddit. So every timeline and Twitter feed probably will not cover the TPP as you think it should.
I'm not trying to take anything away from gay marriage. I just feel that it is being manipulated as a distraction. If you can multi-task, that's awesome but the hivemind in general struggles with staying focused.
The majority of Americans support TPP because they don't know what it is. We're not trying to raise awareness of it's existence, we're trying to shine the light on what it really is. Just from what we've seen so far, it's transforming the American democracy into a communist dictatorship run by corporations. If the American people new that, they wouldn't support it for a second. I wasn't clear on that, though, so I'll try to edit my post to that point, thanks.
I'm not trying to take anything away from gay marriage. I just feel that it is
being manipulated as a distraction.
What, someone paid the Supreme Court justices and all of the parties involved to have a decision right now just to distract attention that didn't exist for a trade agreement that also doesn't exist yet?
This is absolute, complete hubris and delusions of grandeur. My cause is so important that everything from historic Supreme Court decisions to the weather are being engineered to distract from it! It's just not possible that I could be wrong!
The majority of Americans support TPP because they don't know what it is.
It's a trade agreement; we know what it is. We've been through this before but you're probably too young to remember or possibly even been born yet (NAFTA). People right now are just inventing imaginary things about TPP and getting themselves worked up over nothing. An historic moment in the civil rights history of the United States occurs that we should all remember where we were when we heard and it bizarrely gets dismissed as a "distraction" from your own obsession. That's a shame. I'm old enough to remember when gays couldn't serve in the military and were actively hunted out, when professions like teachers kept quiet about their sexuality for fear of dismissal (it being legal to be fired for being gay in almost every state at that time, and it's still legal in several today), when landlords wouldn't rent to gay people, when "f*g" was dropped in casual conversation (and even movies!) and when being in the closet was the norm. Gay people got as much love from mainstream politicians, religious or corporations as ISIS gets in America today. Hell, I remember when two Sims being allowed to "move in together" in The SIms 1 generated significant controversy!
What happened today was an incredible, historic event for this country that, as Obama said, makes us all a little more free. It's not some road bump in your ideological obsession. A couple got a marriage license in Texas today that they've been waiting for for FIFTY-FIVE YEARS. I started getting teary-eyed as I typed that. Who the heck are you to write " If you can multi-task, that's awesome..."? That's effing AWESOME, period.
We're not trying to raise awareness of it's existence, we're trying to shine
the light on what it really is.
No. No, you're not. You look at the entire world through a set of ideological blinders in which every action, no matter how benign, is to be interpreted as invisible machinations of powerful unseen hands that you,and only you, are enlightened enough to realize (and I'm a former conspiracy addict so don't try to BS me that it's not). Your Alex Jones and Infowars and Rense.com and Coast To Coast web pages run articles from anonymous sources that paint some sort of wild-eyed story about a trade agreement THAT'S NOT FINISHED and NO ONE OUTSIDE THE NEGOTIATORS HAS SEEN YET. It fits your worldview so you buy into it hook, line and sinker. You then get so worked up that you compare youself to the freedom fighters of Tianemen Square (something I'm also old enough to remember first hand, as well as the collapse of Commmunisn across Eastern Europe). I knew people who risked death escaping East Germany in a false trunk of car. Sorry, you folks are not at their level nor is your cause even remotely comparable.
Just from what we've seen so far, it's transforming the American
democracy into a communist dictatorship run by corporations.
Blls*t. Wikipedia source for that? Of course not. That's just your extremist ideology talking, the same way Richard Stallman told me not being able to make a copy of a DVD for a friend was "immoral" or conservatives claiming marriage equality is the death of democracy in America. It's overblown hystrionics, paranoia and simply making up facts to suit your worldview/narrative.
Again, I knew people who lived in REAL Communist dictatorships. How dare you dimish their experiences by spewing this kind of nonsense.
If the American people new that, they wouldn't support it for a second.
If it wasn't something ridiculous that you just made up, they wouldn't support it for a second.
Seriously - take a deep breath and a step back and gain some perspective here. You're allowing yourself to become hysterical over something that, even if it were true, you couldn't do anything about and woudln't affect your life anyway. Here's what works for me: ask yourself (sometimes out loud helps), "Is this the MOST likely explanation or the LEAST likely explanation?" I find this helps put things in perspective and realize when a claim is improbable and thus needs Sagan's "extraordinary evidence". Then you often find it doesn't even have regular evidence, but without that perspective you wouldn't have gone looking for any evidence at all because it told you what you wanted to/already believed.
His point is that they just so happened to vote on it right around when fast track passed so news outlets would cover gay marriage rather than the TPP.
Gay marriage is a news story, and the government wants to use it.
Edit:
wouldn't affect your life anyway.
Ah, nvm.
So how's that sweet, sweet taxpayer cash?
We're not trying to raise awareness of it's existence, we're trying to shine the light on what it really is.
I have pointed this out repeatedly in this thread. YOU don't know what it really is. It's damned presumptuous of you to lecture when you couldn't even be bothered to learn the first thing about it.
it's transforming the American democracy into a communist dictatorship run by corporations.
Oh my god. You have to be a shill. Seriously. No one is this stupid.
Jesus. Stop right fucking there. Apparently you never knew that America NEVER HAD a democracy in the first place.
Some of the points you make are not horrible, but you bathe them in such annoyingly melodramatic jargon that it will really make people roll their eyes up at what you're saying.
I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered crazy and I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true. I can't win. Are we a conspiracy group or a fact group? Make up your minds!
I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered crazy and I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true
Hey, don't leave me out! I'm slamming you for all the falsehoods you've been posting! And for being too lazy to even learn about the thing you're so worked up about!
I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered crazy and I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true.
No. You're getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true, BUT SAYING THEM IN AN UNNECESSARILY MELODRAMATIC MANNER.
There's a difference, okay?
I can't win.
Not when you don't present your information in a balanced, critically-thinking manner you can't.
Are we a conspiracy group or a fact group?
I don't know what "we" are because I won't personally speak for anyone but myself, but I'd say that I personally focus more on facts, and it seems to me that this is precisely why you're getting slammed - because you're not understanding that, again, you're filling the few facts that you point out with SO much unnecessarily melodramatic crap that it makes the ultimate message almost indecipherable and useless.
Make up your minds!
The minds are made up. You're just not being intelligent about how you say things.
The only complaint you have is about my melodramatic tone but that's just your opinion and you're trying to pass it off as a way to discredit what I'm saying. Yeah, I did go a little heavy on the Braveheart style speech but I felt it was necessary to get people's attention and really start a movement. It doesn't matter whether or not you like how I talk, all that matters is the information (which you yourself said wasn't horrible) and that this gets people's attention and they do something. It's got 13 upvotes as I'm typing this so I'd say it's going according to plan. Apparently this community is full of great people, they just aren't usually the ones that leave comments.
The only complaint you have is about my melodramatic tone but that's just your opinion and you're trying to pass it off as a way to discredit what I'm saying.
What? That's all in your head, man. lol. Trying to "discredit" what you're saying? Where am I trying to do that? I'm literally TELLING you that you have valid points. Wow, man. Come on. You're beginning to sound like a paranoid type. I'm telling you you have valid points, but you discredit YOURSELF with how you present them.
Yeah, I did go a little heavy on the Braveheart style speech but I felt it was necessary to get people's attention and really start a movement.
Na, man. You will NEVER start any movement just by anything that you type out in a computer on reddit. I mean COME ON. If what you really want to do is start a movement, then you have to do a LOOOOT more than that.
Wanting to do the right thing and inform people is a GOOD thing, and I'm not trying to dissuade you from that, but there are better ways of doing it than what you did is what I'm saying.
It doesn't matter whether or not you like how I talk
No. It really doesn't in the bigger scheme of things. You're right. I'm often guilty of having my message get lost in how I deliver it too though, so I'm also aware that sometimes it's not a horrible idea to try to say things in a manner that people will more likely take seriously instead of roll their eyes at. Just saying.
all that matters is the information
On a certain level, yes. This isn't incorrect. However, there is indeed some information whose meaning is effected by how the info is presented.
(which you yourself said wasn't horrible)
Because it isn't. I still stand behind that. Data's data in and of itself. The TPP issue is a MAJOR issue.
and that this gets people's attention and they do something.
Yeah but, like I said in previous posts, a lot of people might look at your OP and go "Dude, stfu w/this. GTFO." just because you're going so over the top in how you're saying certain things.
It's got 13 upvotes as I'm typing this so I'd say it's going according to plan.
Okay. Fair enough. I'd imagine it would have gotten less downvotes, however, without the hyperbolic presentation, but okay.
Apparently this community is full of great people, they just aren't usually the ones that leave comments.
What? That seems like a just...not a very good, intelligent comment on your part. Generalizations like that are not a good thing. But, again, okay...
Wanting to do the right thing and inform people is a GOOD thing, and I'm not trying to dissuade you from that, but there are better ways of doing it than what you did is what I'm saying.
That's the part I want to address. I'm not trying to be the supreme leader or anything. If you've got better ideas, let's hear them. I want to this thing to get as huge as possible so I'm open to all suggestions.
The biggest key, as I've said before MAAAAANNNY times before in other posts, involves the entirety of the human race putting away all the indoctrinated differences that have gotten brainwashed into us and that have gotten so many of us to be racist against one another. If we realize we are all one people and begin helping each other as such, then TPTB will have absolutely zero power over us.
Short of this global acknowledgment, it seems it will continue to be very easy to keep us divided and very controlled.
That sounds great but that's a dream, not a goal. How do you expect us to come together without getting the word out? That is the ultimate plan but this is how we get there.
If we don't do that, then we might as well just keep taking it up the ass. What chance do a people who can't help one another have at fighting that power above them covertly (and overtly) controlling them?
How do you expect us to come together without getting the word out?
Putting the word out is included in it.
That is the ultimate plan but this is how we get there.
I'm all about putting the word out as well though.
If no one knows what it means, entails or does, how can you folks be so incensed about it? That's like hating a movie that hasn't been released or screened to critics yet.
. How can they support something they are unaware of exactly?
Oh the lack of self-awareness. How can you oppose something you're unaware of exactly?
5 of 29 chapters are available online via wikileaks.
Most people will not have gotten that far.
The docs available online exist in a legal-flux, as someone will probably get in trouble for leaking them. We'll probably never know who, furthermore we won't hear much about it after it passes.
People that oppose it have read the chapters.
Why the secrecy? Because they know it's a game changer?
who the fuck is "you folks" exactly there, friend?
This is pathetic in this sub. People are outraged over TPP because....
1) Something something I want to pirate Game Of Thrones.
2) Stuff they make up out of thin air.
Meanwhile, an absolutely historic moment in American history has been reached and you're getting DOWNVOTED for pointing it out. It's disgusting.
Congratulations on getting marriage equality in Texas!
Who's downvoting marriage equality? I think it's a wonderful thing. I'm bisexual so that law might apply to me someday. It's just that literally every other sub is talking about it non-stop and it seems a little suspicious that right as the fast track goes through, we have a shooting and gay marriage is passed. I'm just trying to keep everybody focused. Celebrate gay marriage all you want but don't forget the important things going on behind the scenes.
Do something? It's too late. TTP will pass no matter what we do because too many people are texting and working to be worried about this matter. ids too late
Damn, is this sub nothing but shills or something? Why can't we come together for a single cause like our forefathers did instead of picking each other apart?
It's never too late. Don't fall for the fear tactics of the elite. We CAN get the word out and we CAN stop this. Hell, if everybody's busy texting then text them about TPP. Americans are smarter than you think, they just need a little bravery and information. That's where we come in.
Im fuckin with you man I think we should come together like our forefathers did, but I've asked people if they even know what the TPP is and they could just not be bothered with it. People just don't fuckin care and the few that do our voices won't be heard.
We will come together. No one person can do everything but everyone can do something and every day more of us want the same thing, we have a common cause and our consciousness is expanding. Don't lose faith in humanity. Humanity is like an ocean, if a few drops are dirty the ocean does not become dirty. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what they set in place, mass non compliance is the answer. We have to be the change we want to see in the world and we will project that outwardly. Like everything else it's just a choice away. We have to be patient. It has to be point blank staring us in the face before the majority acknowledge this.
Sorry, bro. It just felt like I got swamped with the expected wall of opposition. Then don't ask them if they know what the TPP is. Ask them if they want major corporations to be their government with legal access to all of their information. The NSA got people's attention and they cared, they just didn't do anything. I'm trying to stir up that same sense of care but turn it into action this time.
Ask them if they want major corporations to be their government with legal
access to all of their information.
Did you ever stop, read aloud what you just wrote, and say out loud "Now I'm just making things up."
I've got a set of car keys for you if you can show me a credible source (say, Wikipedia, New York Times) that says that TPP will allow "major corporations to be [our] government".
never underestimate the power of stupidity in large numbers. The optimist in me says not all Americans are morons, the realist in me says otherwise. The vast majority are gonna be too busy riding the marriage rainbow to redirect their attention to the TPP. i believe after all this time, since 2007 in my state, TPTB decided they were willing to concede this topic for a hysteria that completely glosses over the real, more pressing issues like the TPP and pushing the agenda of "nothing to see here, keep moving"
Ok, so you're gonna have your tie amen square moment. You stand up against the military police. And at best you'll be in jail and at worst you'll be dead.
I'm fine with giving my life up for a better future for our children. But that's not going to happen because if it did, it would just give attention and validity to our movement. You yourself just proved that because all you said was Tiananmen Square moment and everyone knows what you're talking about. If we had that kind of press, TPP would be delayed for decades.
When you're comparing some pointless, irrelevant trade agreement to people who died for democracy that's a sign you're gripped in delusions and need to step way, way, way back for awhile. Being able to pirate Game of Thrones isn't comparible to standing up to a totalitarian regime.
That's why I added the bottom two steps. But wifi isn't a bad thing. They didn't use it because they didn't have it. For us it's a tool to scream our voices as loud as possible. In fact, it can be even more effective than in person protests because of how our media is controlled these days.
I've spent years trying to educate everyone around me about net neutrality and shit like TPP. Like long conversations where I explain what's going on and the implications for them since they don't know the internet much beyond Google and Facebook. They get the point and understand usually with a "that's total bullshit". And that's the end of it.
Today as people were hooting about the confederate flag and gay marriage, I said "convenient timing for TPP". They were interested so I explained it a bit then showed a few articles on TPP. After initially being pissed off about it, the conversation switched back to "the civil war wasn't about slavery" after I said the crap on the news is distracting everyone. All I said after that was "See? It's working perfectly"
Call me a shill if you want. But every time I've talked about anything which we here or the Internet finds important, most people get pissed for a moment then go back to bitching about whatever it is that pisses them off more as soon as possible. I guess it's just human nature, but it's predictable and being exploited. It's a numbers game, fewer people care about the "big" issues compared to emotion based socially dividing "issues".
It's not fun to talk about for most people since it's basically like history or social science classes in high school. Being "free" adults they get to choose what they want to talk and think about and "drama" like gay marriage and confederate flags is going to win out every single time. For the next few days you will be able to derail any conversation by mentioning it.
It's always been game over. We lost before any of us were even born. It's our collective nature that doomed us. Best we can hope for is to be wrong and worst is to say "told you so". Not that anyone will really care then either.
And that's when rational people stopped listening to you because you were implicitly positing an completely unbelievable and unworkable conspiracy in which mass murder and Supreme Court decisions were somehow engineered to distract people from an agreement that doesn't exist yet and hence doesn't do anything yet that anyone knows about beyond conjecture.
and "drama" like gay marriage and confederate flags
People's human rights aren't "drama". The Confederate flag is a symptom, not a problem. Maybe silly, pointless, undisclosed trade agreements that will never affect anyone in the real world aren't as important as whether you can visit your spouse in the ICU in a hospital or whether you can go to church without needing to bring a sidearm?
These rants always seem to consider only two possibilities: you agree with me, or you're too biased/blind/dumb/ignorant to agree with me. Maybe, just maybe, you're the one getting worked up over "drama" and ignoring the real, immediate serious problems of discrimination, be it sexuality or race?
I'd normally agree with you, if it were the basis of the conversation. The news was covering it so I used that as an intro to make people aware of TPP. They never heard of it so the rest of the conversation was about TPP until it switched to confederate talk after they voiced their very real displeasure to its details. Maybe it's just poor timing, but any timing is poor to talk about tech or TPP type topics since so few people have any background on it to draw from, and therefor have no opinion to get emotional with. Hence the point of my rant. Who the hell really wants to spend their free time talking about, or rather, being educated on patent laws, trade agreements, or internet traffic after they spent all week/day working? Almost no one. Everyone has an opinion on gay marriage/race which makes it easy and "fun" to talk about.
People's human rights aren't "drama". The Confederate flag is a symptom, not a problem. Maybe silly, pointless, undisclosed trade agreements that will never affect anyone in the real world aren't as important as whether you can visit your spouse in the ICU in a hospital or whether you can go to church without needing to bring a sidearm?
Being that you're trying to derail the conversation by switching topics with some emotion-bait, I'll wrap up quick. You're in /r/conspiracy, for trying to downplay TPP or just about /r/conspiracy fodder by using a logical fallacy, I award you no points.
No it won't because they will be much more powerful. How will it be easier when they are controlling our methods of communication so that we can't rally together on social media and on forums like this? They put a "You can't screw Israel" clause in it, why wouldn't they put an "it's illegal to rebel against the TPP" clause in it too?
People are saying that they are too powerful now so it's not worth it but that's a lie, an illusion, that they are spreading to cover their asses. The truth is they will only be too powerful if TPP goes through and that's only going to happen if we let it.
They aren't passing these laws without us. We are just as much apart of the decision making process as they are. It's just that they make their vote publicly and you're making your vote right now in silence when you choose whether or not to join us in the fight.
I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered crazy and I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true.
No. You're getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true, BUT SAYING THEM IN AN UNNECESSARILY MELODRAMATIC MANNER.
There's a difference, okay?
I can't win.
Not when you don't present your information in a balanced, critically-thinking manner you can't.
Are we a conspiracy group or a fact group?
I don't know what "we" are because I won't personally speak for anyone but myself, but I'd say that I personally focus more on facts, and it seems to me that this is precisely why you're getting slammed - because you're not understanding that, again, you're filling the few facts that you point out with SO much unnecessarily melodramatic crap that it makes the ultimate message almost indecipherable and useless.
Make up your minds!
The minds are made up. You're just not being intelligent about how you say things.
I'm fine with giving my life up for a better future for our children. But that's not going to happen because if it did, it would just give attention and validity to our movement. You yourself just proved that because all you said was Tiananmen Square moment and everyone knows what you're talking about. If we had that kind of press, TPP would be delayed for decades.
If no one knows what it means, entails or does, how can you folks be so incensed about it? That's like hating a movie that hasn't been released or screened to critics yet.
. How can they support something they are unaware of exactly?
Oh the lack of self-awareness. How can you oppose something you're unaware of exactly?
Have you read the agreement or are you just a blatant shill? No corporations are not signatories but they do have rights expressed in the agreement. And I said major countries. Not all countries in the world are apart of it and some countries that are not negotiating it (therefore not mentioned in the document explicitly) will be under it's laws. The agreement is with the entire EU so if the UK stays in, they will be held to it's regulations regardless of whether or not they have anything to do with it's passing. Are you aware that the TPP is not a stand alone agreement? It compliments the TISA and TRIPS agreements which have separate terms which are referenced in the TPP so if you have not read the TISA documents, you cannot have a full understanding of the TPP
I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered crazy and I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true
Hey, don't leave me out! I'm slamming you for all the falsehoods you've been posting! And for being too lazy to even learn about the thing you're so worked up about!
The use of "all caps" is absolutely justified in this instance is absolutely justified. From what has been leaked so far, albeit only a few of the sections, it is clear to me that this trade agreement has the potential of seriously affecting the citizens of the U.S. In a negative way such as never seen before. What has passed so far is a "fast track" provision that will allow the bill to pass on an up or down vote. That means the Senate will need only 51 votes for passage as opposed the 60 that is normally required according to Senate rules.
Don't you find it more than curious that this is one of the rare cases that the GOP is 100% in support of the President while all but 13 Dems were opposed to fast tracking. As it stands, the TPP is almost guaranteed ratification with very little in put from the citizens of this country. Ratification can only fail if senators are heavily pressured by their constituencies.
the legitimate protesters will outnumber the provocateurs. As in other recent protests, it will be easy to recognize them by their behavior. Everyone has a high-quality video/still camera on them at all times. Call the provocateurs out, surround them, force them to break character/reveal themselves and take video/photos.
First off, it's not an article so obviously you didn't read it. Second, which horrible things are you talking about specifically...? My summary is exactly that, a summary of the entire document. If you don't give me a particular point, I can't tell you where it is. Also, as I said before and you ignored, you can search the document yourself in your browser.
This is the Atlantic version of the TPP. This is a trade agreement of the same breadth of the TPP, but with Europe and the United states. This leaves Africa (no one really gives a shit), South America(there is ongoing discussion of one with them) the middle east, Russia, China (trade relations are normalized however,) and small satellite countries out of the equation. Really everybody else is in on it. This is an unprecedented amount of countries being apart of a "free trade" agreement. If this fails horribly, those countries fail horribly, the world fails horribly.
The fact is that major corporations lobby groups are being given an unprecedented amount of control over what is in the agreement. This is basically collusion.
Everything you buy, whether it comes from a yard sale, or farmer's market, or fucking Oxfam has involvement with a corrupt corporation. Whether it be the the vehicle they use, the clothes they wear, the metal used in the container that holds the organic beeswax they buy. Has cooperation from a corporation. Because no one is Amish anymore. Sorry, but I derive real pleasure from exposing the hypocrisy of sanctimonious, self righteous, and myopic 'revolutionaries'
Or perhaps they forget the slave labor that went into constructing their favorite Internet access device.
391 comments
189 ButtRichard 2015-06-26
The reason no one is doing anything is because none of us are allowed to read it. . .If anything we should spam call Police in Washington and demand that they arrest these imbeciles and we the people try them all in court for Treason Against the Constitution, but that will never happen.
137 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
We have a bunch of chapters leaked. But that alone is illegal. The government should be protecting us so therefore they shouldn't be keeping legislation from us. That's something to protest in itself.
We shouldn't get the police involved because they aren't on our side anymore. They don't protect the people from the government, they protect the government from the people. The only way we can have success is if we peacefully and legally make an annoying ruckus. Emphasis on the peacefully and legally because we're already labeled crazy in the eyes of the general public so the smallest of slipups gives the msm free reign to discredit our entire operation.
22 tamel_coe 2015-06-26
Neighbour from the north here, anything we can do to help
27 musicmaker 2015-06-26
We are part of the TPP negotiations. We're just as involved in the process and will be just as affected by it as our American neighbours. We need to help ourselves. We're all in this together.
8 Zi7 2015-06-26
Here's a site that may help.
http://canadians.org/expose-tpp
1 Wish_you_were_there 2015-06-26
Australian here. .oh wait it's us too. Maybe we need to get /r/ameristralia and what ever the new zanada one is to join forces. New ameristralealanada ?
7 meshnet_user 2015-06-26
A historical reenactment of 8/24/1814?
6 ProbablyAn00bis 2015-06-26
a second boston tea-p-party?
4 bthomastn 2015-06-26
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington
8 darkwingduckdunn 2015-06-26
Amen
6 ValikorWarlock 2015-06-26
Well, it wouldn't necessarily be peaceful, especially because they are probably going to send their dogs (cops) after us in full battle rattle just like the battle for Seattle.
6 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
It's worth a shot I guess but any sort of protest is shut down from the start. Even if we don't slip up, they'll bring in provocateurs to slip up for us. There really is not much we can do.
7 playswithdogs 2015-06-26
But try
3 nonamebeats 2015-06-26
the legitimate protesters will outnumber the provocateurs. As in other recent protests, it will be easy to recognize them by their behavior. Everyone has a high-quality video/still camera on them at all times. Call the provocateurs out, surround them, force them to break character/reveal themselves and take video/photos.
2 notacrackheadofficer 2015-06-26
And the whole world will be watching on reddit. Or maybe not.
0 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
All that attitude does is force them to get better at blending in.
2 nonamebeats 2015-06-26
But there's an upper limit to how well they can blend in. If it's an organized, peaceful protest, anyone kicking windows or otherwise blatantly disregarding a non-violent directive will stand out.
5 peterson2004 2015-06-26
You lost me there, they have demonstrated no duty to protect and quite the opposite.
1 WizardOfOhZees 2015-06-26
Should being the key word there.
1 ichoosejif 2015-06-26
Quite
1 TwoDollarDrink 2015-06-26
And if nobody slips up, they'll just COINTELPRO our efforts and the media will focus on their faux (planned) opposition.
26 sidewalkchalked 2015-06-26
I am quite sure that posts mentioning TPP are blocked on /r/videos, /r/news, etc.
This is why we were mad and anti censorship all those years on reddit. We said, one day we will need a free platform when TV and magazines fail us.
Today is that day.
1 BuryMeInABaconSuit 2015-06-26
What we need is a revolution. Today is that day!
5 BeatznFlowz 2015-06-26
I'm still calling in the morning
1 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
On that same note - might sound weird but has anyone actually READ the bill? Is anything that's circulating in esoteric circles even real? How do we know it's true?
10 Ateist 2015-06-26
The fact that it is SECRET is reason enough to know that it is no good.
7 musicmaker 2015-06-26
There have been leaks of potions of the proposed TPP by Wikileaks. No politician has denied the truthfulness of the leaked documents. They merely downplay the severity, trying to portray it in a positive light. There will be no positive outcomes, unless you are part of the .00001% and a majority owner of a giant multinational corporation.
2 frothface 2015-06-26
This here I do not understand. If you can leak some of it, why not all? It's almost as if someone is allowing select parts to be leaked. Maybe it's a frog / boiling water thing to soften the blow?
2 gensyms 2015-06-26
Someone has. Someone wrote it.
But it's being kept secret from the people it affects. Until after it is immutable law.
Doesn't sound weird at all. And thanks to Wikileaks and some very brave souls who've leaked the documents, you can read parts of it yourself. Here's what's available to read right now.
1 papipapichulo 2015-06-26
elaborate on what treasonous acts were committed and by whom: please be specific
1 israelearthcancer 2015-06-26
Why cant that happen?
Lets all conspire and blow up their phone number on monday. If a hundred of us call then itll get so ridiculous something will happen.
-3 funkarama 2015-06-26
It is not treason against the Constitution. Treaties are ABOVE the Constitution.
0 gensyms 2015-06-26
You're getting downvoted but treaties are above the constitution.
3 The_Real_Catseye 2015-06-26
Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_v._Covert
1 gensyms 2015-06-26
Reid v. Covert tested an executive agreement. Not a treaty.
Article VI of the US Constitution however, says:
And that doesn't sound very ambiguous at all.
1 UnityNow 2015-06-26
In Reid v. Covert, SCOTUS said: "This Court has regularly and uniformly recognized the supremacy of the Constitution over a treaty."
That is very clear.
You've completely misunderstood that section of the Constitution. Thankfully, SCOTUS has repeatedly made it clear that the Constitution comes first. Reread that paragraph. It doesn't even slightly imply that treaties supersede the Constitution. It simply says that we must abide by treaties also. However, the Constitution IS the US. Without it, there is no treaty. Any treaty is by necessity secondary to the Constitution.
-2 funkarama 2015-06-26
I am used to getting downvoted. I always get downvoted. Sometimes I even deserve it.
-10 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
I would suggest you familiarize yourself with the US Constitution. Because if you knew what was in it, you would realize how preposterous your suggestion is.
The Constitution defines treason. You obviously are not familiar with it; in no way, shape, or form do this week's votes on fast track authority constitute treason.
-12 alcalde 2015-06-26
Of course not, because that would be insane and unproductive.
How is not publishing a treaty before its finished "treason against the Constitution"?
-4 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
The problem is the people who are shitting their pants don't actually know a single thing about this. Fast track authority has been in effect for decades, trade bills are always handled this way, and ongoing trade negotiations are always secret until they are ready for consideration by Congress.
7 showroom 2015-06-26
So wise ass just because they been fucking us like that for years,its fine to keep doing it ? You them one of those google it intellectual bullshiters ?
3 moet6000 2015-06-26
booooo
74 ageisen2000 2015-06-26
Any time I try to bring up this fact in other threads I get downvoted. You can tell the powers that be have their bots running full swing. Or maybe public opinion really is that gay marriage is more important than the freedom of the entire world....
23 nmeseth 2015-06-26
Yeah, I had my post go up to 50-60, then in two minutes it dropped to 10-11 with a ton of comments about /r/conspiricy
9 snorkleboy 2015-06-26
So we arent allowed to have Any news until the tpp is finally out of negotiations and goes to congress?
5 pilgrimboy 2015-06-26
Then it will be considered old news and not allowed.
1 musicmaker 2015-06-26
News is news. But really, so many events lately that consume the daily news coverage right after the passage of fast track? Since the timing of the making and release of judgements by the Supreme Court is discretionary, it makes you wonder. Obamacare and gay marriage, both long standing issues, decided now. Who's coaching these guys?
1 meshnet_user 2015-06-26
Isn't this normal? They negotiate what should be in a treaty then make it public for Congress? Or is it not going to be released at all to the public even after Congress gets it?
1 snorkleboy 2015-06-26
It will be public when it goes to congress and another 11 legislatures to be voted on.
However In the us the fast tracking means that it will be debated a maximum of 3 months and there will only be a yay or a nay (no changes are allowed at that point).
I was being sarcastic, because right now isnt a special time for the tpp. I guess thier going to call everything a distraction for the next couple years till it gets out of negotiation.
1 meshnet_user 2015-06-26
Forest Gump said it best.
1 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
The TPA passed the senate. Basically it set up the ground work for the TPP to pass. Part of what the TPA does, if I remember right, and what is part of the term "fast track" is that nothing is even allowed to be fillibustered. It's fucking crazy.
-1 RedAnarchist 2015-06-26
Link me to such an example.
-19 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Maybe the reason people are downvoting you is because the suggestion that TPP will destroy the freedom of the entire world is so preposterous that no one can take you seriously after you say it.
5 darkwingduckdunn 2015-06-26
DHS #troll
33 YouLikeWhatYouC 2015-06-26
ELI5: What is TPP and how does it affect me as a U.S. citizen?
56 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
TPP is a trade agreement between all the major countries in the world and all the major corporations in the world that is giving the corporations some government and some unconstitutional powers with limited restrictions. Essentially it is establishing a one world government in which the corporations make the laws and the citizens' rights are stripped from them. And that's just what we know from the 4 parts out of 29 that have been leaked so far. I'm working on making bullet point summaries of each of the chapters and when I'm done, I'll put them in the original post.
25 maiqthetrue 2015-06-26
It's not that corporations are signing the document, but the document gives them the specific right to nullify anything they don't like in an international court. You raised minimum wage, bam get sued for restraint of trade. You limit sales of alcohol or cigarettes, bam sued. Special labels for dangerous products? Naughty people. Bam, sued.
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Thank you, that's exactly the point. That is a dangerous amount of power to give to corporations.
3 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
Jesus christ.
1 DenSem 2015-06-26
May not be that far off actually....
4 Gramatike 2015-06-26
I've been told that what you said is only in the first 5 chapters and the rest of it is all about regulating and controlling the internet.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Actually regulating and controlling the internet is in the very chapter I linked to in my OP
1 [deleted] 2015-06-26
But how? I don't really understand what that implies, because its all really vague...
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
An example of this (that was probably the inspiration for the agreement) was a lawsuit between a cigarette company and I believe either Australia or New Zealand. In summary, the government wanted to dissuade it's people from buying cigarettes so they made a law that packages had to be labeled in gruesome pictures of lung cancer and rotten teeth to make sure that the consumer was well educated about the effects of smoking before they made the purchase. I believe there was also a heavy tax on cigarettes too but I'm not sure, this is all from memory.
Basically the cigarette companies sued the government because they were costing them sales with their laws. I don't think they won but that's the type of power this agreement is trying to give to corporations. The ability to manipulate the laws of it's cooperating countries at will for their own monetary gain. I personally do not believe that power over so many countries should be given to a group that blatantly shows no concern for anyone but themselves.
1 [deleted] 2015-06-26
That makes sense.
I have only just started to look into it and a lot of the legal jargon goes over my head when I try to read the bill directly.
-1 the_bacon 2015-06-26
A one world government sounds pretty good. Leveling the playing field like the European union has done makes life a lot easier. No visas, work anywhere, live anywhere, one (or two) currencies so no exploiting exchange rates, same laws and regulations everywhere, more equal society, easier to trade. Global laws and regulations could end tax havens.
1 DM90 2015-06-26
i think the issue with this is who is at the top of it
-29 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Your ignorance is staggering.
Before you head out in the streets with your pamphlets and your megaphones, maybe you should take five minutes to get up to speed on a bill you obviously don't know a single thing about.
Did you really just say that? You have the balls to post a thread screaming in all caps and you don't know the first thing about it?
Here's a hint for you: It's the PACIFIC PARTNERSHIP. What do you suppose that world PACIFIC indicates?
I'll tell you the countries that are participating in this treaty and see if you can't figure it out.
Note: That's TWELVE countries. Not "all the countries in the world." See anything those twelve have in common? Just ask me and I'll tell you; I'm sure you won't be able to figure it out on your own.
Did you really just say that? You have the balls to post a thread screaming in all caps and you don't know the first thing about it?
Corporations are not signatories to this treaty. It is not a treaty "between" corporations and countries.
You really should be ashamed of yourself. You make this sub and people legitimately opposed to TPP -- like me -- look like shit.
I swear you are probably working for the people trying to pass this bill, and your goal is to make opponents look like fucking morons.
14 hxcdsal 2015-06-26
seems like an overreaction wouldnt you say?
25 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Yes I would. I'm pretty sure /u/uncriticaleye is a TPP shill seeing how their account is only a month old and its mostly TPP content.
17 darkwingduckdunn 2015-06-26
yup we know they do this now
3 Forgive_my_Ignorance 2015-06-26
oh snap! really!? shit!
9 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Have you read the agreement or are you just a blatant shill? No corporations are not signatories but they do have rights expressed in the agreement. And I said major countries. Not all countries in the world are apart of it and some countries that are not negotiating it (therefore not mentioned in the document explicitly) will be under it's laws. The agreement is with the entire EU so if the UK stays in, they will be held to it's regulations regardless of whether or not they have anything to do with it's passing. Are you aware that the TPP is not a stand alone agreement? It compliments the TISA and TRIPS agreements which have separate terms which are referenced in the TPP so if you have not read the TISA documents, you cannot have a full understanding of the TPP
3 xpurplexamyx 2015-06-26
TTIP is the Transatlanic Trade and Investment Partnership, which is what you're thinking of in relation to Europe/US trade negotiations. It's considered a sibling of TPP, but it's not the same trade agreement.
3 Cenethle 2015-06-26
Just to nitpick, the TPP doesn't apply with the EU. That is the TTIP, or the Trans Atlantic Investment Partnership. There's a good number of "trade deals" being worked out and all the T's probably cause confusion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership
2 cayote111 2015-06-26
The use of "all caps" is absolutely justified in this instance is absolutely justified. From what has been leaked so far, albeit only a few of the sections, it is clear to me that this trade agreement has the potential of seriously affecting the citizens of the U.S. In a negative way such as never seen before. What has passed so far is a "fast track" provision that will allow the bill to pass on an up or down vote. That means the Senate will need only 51 votes for passage as opposed the 60 that is normally required according to Senate rules.
Don't you find it more than curious that this is one of the rare cases that the GOP is 100% in support of the President while all but 13 Dems were opposed to fast tracking. As it stands, the TPP is almost guaranteed ratification with very little in put from the citizens of this country. Ratification can only fail if senators are heavily pressured by their constituencies.
2 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
Honestly I hope you rot in the hell you believe in selling your self and your country-men out
2 piles_of_SSRIs 2015-06-26
Pull back a little next time, it's pretty obvious who you are.
1 IchTuDirWeh 2015-06-26
Wanna share some of that money? Honestly I wouldn't have even hired you to do this. You suck ass at it.
1 Frenchie_21 2015-06-26
Hey guess what you fuck. He worded it wrong but he is not exactly wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership
This is the Atlantic version of the TPP. This is a trade agreement of the same breadth of the TPP, but with Europe and the United states. This leaves Africa (no one really gives a shit), South America(there is ongoing discussion of one with them) the middle east, Russia, China (trade relations are normalized however,) and small satellite countries out of the equation. Really everybody else is in on it. This is an unprecedented amount of countries being apart of a "free trade" agreement. If this fails horribly, those countries fail horribly, the world fails horribly.
The fact is that major corporations lobby groups are being given an unprecedented amount of control over what is in the agreement. This is basically collusion.
10 badbillsvc 2015-06-26
Another step in corporations having more rights than citizens and profit margins of a few already right people being put above the safety/needs/health of the rest. At least thats what my limited understanding of it is. I would LOVE to know more but you see this bill that could have huge implications is classified from the people who would be affected and that fact that some of it was leaked is a crime. That, in the very least, is a huge red flag even if you're not one to buy into hoaky conspiracy theories. The fact that this government is supposedly by and for the people yet we the people have NO say and don't even get to read this.
24 Bacore 2015-06-26
Everyone always says "Do something!" as if we're all sitting around with our bags packed waiting for the trucks to pick us up and take us to a detention center.
There's not much the average citizen can do.He's already written his senator (got a form letter response) called his representative ( they took a message) protested (he's on a watch list now) and he's even stopped voting (they didn't notice)
He wrote his local newspaper editor (shills labeled him a kook and nut job) so other than wait, there's not much he can do.
26 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
That's not enough. That's what you're told is all you can do so that you feel small within the system. The senators and representatives want this so they aren't going to listen to your couple of letters and private protests. That's why I'm talking about interrupting the mainstream news sources and sharing as much in-depth information about this as possible.
Why are there so many people here that have given up hope? Are you masochistic or something? Losing hope while staying on this subreddit is like knowing you're about to get stabbed but staying completely still and watching attentively. If you're not gonna put up a fight then there's no reason to stay informed.
6 Bacore 2015-06-26
What I mentioned is how Americans should object when their elected officials refuse to listen to their concerns. When those peaceful, legal methods are purposely ignored, it comes a time to do more.
No one has given up hope. no one is running scared. We're waiting. Don't mistake waiting patiently for inaction.
And while it may be true that if you're not going to put up a fight, there's no reason to stay informed but if you are planning to put up a fight, there's no reason to go screaming all over the internet about it. Think Fight Club.
6 HipHopSavedMyVibe 2015-06-26
We need to strengthen and grow as a hive mind (by this I just mean a train of thought recognized as a certain demographic). If we stand together we shall not fail. If we continue to let them isolate all of us from each other we will all never get the courage to continue our journeys to excellence.
17 court12b 2015-06-26
My worst nightmare is what If they simply pull the plug on /r/conspiracy? This place feels like the last bastion of rationality in a zombie apocalypse.
I wouldn't even know what to do if I didn't have you guys reminding me that we're the sane ones.
8 HipHopSavedMyVibe 2015-06-26
Be mindful, my friend. There is no reason to lose your sanity because the rest of the world already did. It's a gift and a curse.
4 the_bacon 2015-06-26
Oh man you're in so deep you've completely skewed your perception of the world. Take some time away from the Internet.
1 Fooled_You 2015-06-26
Do we have a voat.co version of this subreddit? Yes we do. We can move there if we need to at that point.
3 court12b 2015-06-26
Bernie is my last hope. A candidate who refuses corporate financial influence.
If we can't groundswell him in to office I am seriously sourcing a Kalashnikov.
2 zangent 2015-06-26
+14bernie
2 jimmiefan48 2015-06-26
More like you are about to get stabbed but you are strapped down to a table with no way out. You can scream all you want, and we will.... But in the end, we are gonna get stabbed dude.
1 tehgreatblade 2015-06-26
Are you in chains? No. You can do more about it than you know.
1 jimmiefan48 2015-06-26
Like what? I spread information on the Internet. I speak to those around me and inform them of things. I take part in protests when they are warranted. What else is there to do?
1 tehgreatblade 2015-06-26
Well we're all a bunch of cowards aren't we?
Our very lives and our sovereignty have been up for grabs for a hundred years, we were born into a system of slavery and control.
Personally, I'd rather die than be a part of that, so when the day comes that I no longer can be my own person, I'll be planning the day I take myself out.
1 jimmiefan48 2015-06-26
Don't you think we will need you in the inevitable revolution? Cmon now. We are already too far down the rabbit hole. Things are going to get interesting and the more people we have on our side to fight the better. Until then we wait to get more people on board.
1 tehgreatblade 2015-06-26
I'll be there when that day comes but if they win, and we lose our fighting chance, we'll be murdered anyway.
What we need is to abolish or somehow destroy all forms of mainstream media so that more people will lose their trance.
2 nuvasek 2015-06-26
Then you do something
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I am, don't worry. But it helps to have as many people helping you as you can.
-3 alcalde 2015-06-26
Maybe, just maybe, you're in the minority opinion on this? Maybe no one's worked up about an agreement that isn't finished yet hence any talk about what it is or does is still speculation?
10 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Did you just call me a minority on an issue with almost 400 upvotes?
1 XSVskill 2015-06-26
HAHAHAHA....sorry that just really got me for some reason.
7 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
It's not speculation, we already have 4 chapters. And these are just the chapters about trade, supposedly only 5 of the 29 are actually about trade which is the most troubling part. They're making new laws for the entire world and we aren't even allowed to know what they are until 4 years after they are implemented.
8 EyesClosedInMirror 2015-06-26
Four years AFTER?!? that's insane. In other words, if this passes, we could be arrested for breaking laws that we weren't even allowed access to knowing about?
-4 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
He's lying to you. (Either that or is he just ignorant.) The full text of the treaty will be available long before it is voted on.
3 wakeboy 2015-06-26
Source?
-7 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
No, they're not. It's absolutely pitiful that you are raging and ranting like a madman, but you don't even know the most basic things about this proposed treaty.
There are TWELVE potential signatories. 12. They are not making laws for the entire world. They are negotiating a trade agreement that will have up to 12 member states.
Twelve.
Try to remember that number. T-W-E-L-V-E.
You're so full of shit.
Can you really be this uninformed?
The full text of the proposed treaty will be public for months before it is voted on.
Who the fuck are you working for? Did you really think you could come in here and discredit this sub so easily? How much are they paying you to make people who oppose TPP look stupid?
9 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Didn't I just call you out for being a shill a few seconds ago, Mr./Mrs. One Month Old Account That Almost Exclusively Comments On TPP Threads? Now you're trying to call me the shill? No company in the world could pay me enough to handle the endless barrage of hatred I have seen today. I'm not as easily paid off as you are.
-12 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Is that all you have? The age of my account?
And no, I do not post "almost exclusively" about TPP. Only over the past few days have I been talking about it. And whether you like it or not, I'm allowed to talk about it. When are you going to stop dodging and own up to all your ridiculous errors (or lies)? You may think you can hide, but believe it or not everyone reading this can fact check you and see your many errors (or lies).
3 stillbatting1000 2015-06-26
Stop embarrassing yourself. Everyone here knows you're full of it.
2 moet6000 2015-06-26
booooooo
1 stillbatting1000 2015-06-26
Stop embarrassing yourself. Everyone here knows you're full of it.
-5 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Well, it might help if you had accurate information. OP can't give you that. He doesn't know the first thing about TPP. For example he claims that every country in the world is participating in this treaty. The actual number is 12.
If you write letters to the editor laced with stupid mistakes like that, then yes, you will be dismissed as a kook.
OP is probably a disinfo agent working FOR the people pushing TPP, and his job is to discredit the movement with his hysteria and his lies.
5 stillbatting1000 2015-06-26
Stop embarrassing yourself. Everyone here knows you're full of it.
20 Thegingerbread_man 2015-06-26
So who wants to organize those protests?
-11 [deleted] 2015-06-26
OP DOES! ... crickets
10 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I haven't really had a bunch of people express interest in starting a protest, most of these comments are attacking my position or me personally. I assumed everyone was doing their part on their own. Meanwhile I've been working on simplifying the content of the leaked chapters to better inform the people here and the people I will be reaching out to.
7 [deleted] 2015-06-26
seems like this TPP thing is beyond the average protest. I mean, we need to start electing people that matter - but that doesn't work either. There's really not a lot of direct action to take, action that would need to be completed by a lot of people on a large scale over time. years. this would need a popular movement where people actually did something like show up to Caucus and elect themselves and othe r people to office. not protest.
3 Tunesmith_ 2015-06-26
I agree. Throwing up arms won't solve this one. The root problems need to be solved:
How do we get all these corrupt representatives out of office?
How do we change the public's opinion of what matters to them?
How can we prevent corporations from gaining such a big influence on law?
Protesting helps, but I feel we need to make average Joe Schmoe give a shit about it. Otherwise, no matter how much is said out loud, it's falling on deaf ears.
1 [deleted] 2015-06-26
may be too far gone. Seems a contingency of 3-5% of the population are what it takes.
1 gummz 2015-06-26
Attacking OP? What the fuck is wrong with you?
2 [deleted] 2015-06-26
i just like to call out that when action is called for, there's no better person than OP who aught to see about getting something going.
16 100_percent_diesel 2015-06-26
Source?
16 Ratch_V 2015-06-26
[US: Consistent with paragraph 1] each Party [US propose; AU/NZ/VN/BN/CL/PE/MY/SG/CA/MX oppose: shall make patents available for inventions for the following] [NZ/CL/PE/MY/AU/VN/BN/SG/CA/MX propose: may also exclude from patentability]: (a) plants and animals, [NZ/CL/PE/MY/AU/VN/BN/SG/CA/MX propose: other than microorganisms]; [JP oppose: (b) diagnostic, therapeutic, and surgical methods for the treatment of humans or animals [US propose; AU/SG/MY/NZ/CL/PE/VN/BN/CA/MX oppose: if they cover a method of using a machine, manufacture, or composition of matter]; [NZ/CL/PE/MY/AU/VN/BN/SG/CA/MX propose:] and (c) essentially biological processes for the production of plants or animals, other than non-biological and microbiological processes for such production.] [MX propose: (d) and the diagrams, plans, rules and methods for carrying out mental processes, playing games or doing business, and mathematical methods as such; software as such; methods to present information as such; and aesthetic creations and artistic or literary works.]
On page 30 of the posted document. I believe OP discerned the ability to patent these things by the fact that it states that parties MAY exclude these things, but don't have too.
2 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
Insane.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I linked to the document above that. You could probably do a page search for each of those individual terms, I pulled them straight out of the document.
-2 TheFapp3ning 2015-06-26
It's extremely sad that almost nobody in /r/conspiracy questions anything. They believe every single thing said to them without questioning it, as long as it's opposite of what the MSM says.
5 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
The fuck are you talking about? Someone linked it. Quit being so dramatic.
1 TheFapp3ning 2015-06-26
They linked to something stating that everything listed was what countries agreed they could NOT copyright. Are you illiterate?
1 MiauFrito 2015-06-26
Doesn't the "US propose; AU/SG/MY/NZ/CL/PE/VN/BN/CA/MX oppose" mean that this will only be in effect in the US?
1 TheFapp3ning 2015-06-26
No, it means that each country decided what they explicitly wanted waived. It applies to everyone in the agreement. OP is a liar. And if you think of something that isn't listed, but should also be against it, it doesn't mean it's GOING to be copyrighted. These are just explicit rights in the agreement.
But OP literally took the list of things not to be copyrighted and said they'd be copyrighted. He either can't understand what he's reading or he's trying to purposely lie to people.
2 meshnet_user 2015-06-26
It's one form of ultimate control.
15 WideAwakeNWO 2015-06-26
Yep. This is my red line. I will not accept any further selling out of my liberties to the highest bidder, especially to foreign countries and governments. I won't do it.
That's it, I'm done participating in this paradigm.
1 papipapichulo 2015-06-26
What liberties have been sold.
What does this mean
12 EltekJab 2015-06-26
Gave you an upvote, but I'm curious if anyone could tell me how does TPP eliminate the market for generic pharmaceutical products? Without getting grossly into the nuance of it all (orphan drug designation, ANDA freezes through litigation, Hatch-Waxman extensions, variations in R&D duration, etc.) the way it works currently is that generally the effective life of a patent on a pharmaceutical product is 10-15 years after which (again without getting into the nuance of challenges to those patents, authorized generics, international variation of patent law, or the 180 exclusivity of first to file generics, etc.) generic manufacturers release generic versions, the branded original loses massive profit margin and as more generics come to market the generics begin to lose margin as well.
First, I'm trying to imagine what could be in the TPP that would alter this process to the degree that one could say "goodbye generics"? Pulling these out of my ass as examples but, are we talking like 40 year patent terms, alterations to the acceptability of bioequivalence in the generic approval process? I seem to remember reading there were potential changes with regards to generic labeling in the works that would create future potential liability issues, some issues with using authorized generic rights in place of cash settlements on litigation, but nothing overly extreme. Second, my mind is racing even trying to grasp all the repercussions of a market devoid of potential generic and/or biosimilar competition. Like, it feels like electric is zapping my brain even trying to picture that.
I have a pretty good understanding of what TPP encompasses in a general way, but it feels like a new heinous detail comes out of it every time I turn around. I guess that's what happens when you fucking hide a major piece of legislation from the public as if it's a plot to murder everyone.
1 Nixplosion 2015-06-26
From what little has been leaked Id venture to say the tpp kills the generic market because the meds can be patented in such a way that any producer of a generic can be sued because the product "too closely resembles their own" In that the active ingrediants would be the same even if other peripheral ingrediants are different. if Im wrong someone PLEASE correct me because I would LOVE to be wrong about this.
1 Intrepyd 2015-06-26
Do you have a source, because that doesn't make any sense. Generic drugs are identical active ingredients already. This is fear mongering nonsense.
1 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
That person didn't quite understand - from what I've read, it's purely on the grounds that companies can sue pretty much anyone they want based on something as little as EXPECTED losses. Anything that cuts into profits.
The example I was given was if a private hospital is operating in a city, and a public hospital opens, the private hospital can sue the city for expected losses.
0 Nixplosion 2015-06-26
No, as I said from what I can gather. And again, as I said. I hope Im not right
11 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
15 court12b 2015-06-26
I swear to god I'm about to start raising my daughter the way Sarah Connor would.
1 meshnet_user 2015-06-26
Why wait?
-4 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Just so you know, his Jefferson quote is fake.
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation
9 Sir_Edmund_Bumblebee 2015-06-26
Just fyi, it doesn't seem that Thomas Jefferson actually said that quote. Check out http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/private-banks-quotation
In fact the words "inflation" and "deflation" didn't even appear until after Jefferson's death.
A better quote, that is definitely Jefferson's,
-8 darkwingduckdunn 2015-06-26
paid #troll
2 Sir_Edmund_Bumblebee 2015-06-26
God forbid someone actually try being helpful and correct a piece of incorrect information. What's your problem?
-4 darkwingduckdunn 2015-06-26
Don't talk to me gypsy
-1 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
That's a fake quote. Jefferson never said it. You've been lied to.
-5 darkwingduckdunn 2015-06-26
henpeck #troll
11 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
1 Fooled_You 2015-06-26
I felt this was a very good explanation.
10 DronePuppet 2015-06-26
Its trauma based mind control!
Humans have zero clue its being done to them!
8 WideAwakeNWO 2015-06-26
Yep. Well said.
9 mahatma_arium_nine 2015-06-26
Iceland got the NWO out because they were informed and United in mind and spirit. They are also a homogenous population with one race, one language and actual solidarity. The USA's propaganda of "diversity" aka division crushes solidarity. Too many different types of people with different types of agendas. The USA has been the testing ground for the NWO policy and mind control for over 100 years now. People have been distracted and systematically dumbed down. We are indeed, fucked.
4 alcalde 2015-06-26
So you want Deutchland uber alles?
2 mahatma_arium_nine 2015-06-26
I've lived in Deutschland from 1992 to 1999. France should be filled with French people. Germany should be filled with German people. This is controversial? USA will never have solidarity. This is a fucking mess of illiterate wage slaves.
12 willeatformoney 2015-06-26
The USA should be for the native americans
10 Sir_Edmund_Bumblebee 2015-06-26
Last time they tried that didn't work out so well...
-1 emperor-caligula 2015-06-26
The only 100% verifiable, true statement I've read in this thread. Kudos, u/Sir_Edmund_Bumblebee! You are a gentleman and a scholar.
9 bittermanscolon 2015-06-26
We've been taught to sit on the sidelines and watch it all unfold for us, it's all we know how to do.
Act now like you've never acted before. Do something you've never tried before. Even just a call to your Rep saying you're paying attention now means they should too.
8 SpawnofHimmler 2015-06-26
the average person is too dumb to follow politics beyond race/sexual orientation because they are too busy reading worldstar/perezhilton/tmz then they turn on CNN only to see a talking head validating the same bullshit they read online...people trust pundits way to much instead of doing their research and forming opinions for themselves and the dumbest of the dumb are those people who say "im not political"
22 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
You're an average person. Are you too dumb to follow politics? That's just a lie spread to control us. The reason people are mislead is because they aren't getting the truth from those pundits. That's why Step #2 is control those news agencies' social media platforms. We have to get our message in front of those people using the systems they rely on.
3 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
The reason people are misled (not "mislead") is because you are spreading misinformation. Your posts are filled with errors, or lies. I don't know if you're just ignorant, or if you are actively trying to sabotage opposite to TPP. In either case, YOU are the reason people aren't getting the truth.
-7 SpawnofHimmler 2015-06-26
im not an average person i have my bachelors in political science...im the average above average person, I've signed the TPP petitions and helped circulate them via facebook and email not to mention i always vote...we need to get the message out there via social media, but ultimately we need to get our message on the television to bad only RT will broadcast it, and everyone attacks them as pro-kremlin propaganda even when they tell the truth
7 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
TV isn't the most powerful form of media anymore because people have Netflix and Hulu and can get all of their news online now. I do think getting on TV would be very beneficial which is why I suggested petitioning the news stations to show the content on air. However, this isn't doomed to fail without televised coverage because online media is just as prevalent these days. If you have a suggestion of how to get on TV other that the steps I provided, though, I would love to add them to my post.
-1 jimmiefan48 2015-06-26
Poli-Sci, so.... You have a bachelor's in nothing? Lol
Seriously though, you can miss me with that appeal to authority bullshit.
-2 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
1 SpawnofHimmler 2015-06-26
this is reddit, go fuck yourself, im not giving a dissertation
5 CawnMan 2015-06-26
There's no need for your ego to identify itself, you are a Human.
0 TheFapp3ning 2015-06-26
You have a bachelors degree, you've never given a dissertation.
5 Scotlas 2015-06-26
The average person isn't dumb, but everyone has been trained to be dumb,right from the start. We are fed dumb shit so continually that an average person with a modicum of intelligence and a reasonable ability to ask why is consisted superhuman.
4 King_Of_Regret 2015-06-26
Why do you put non political people in the dumbest of the dumb category? Some people, including myself, simply don't give a rat's ass because whether we have an opinion or not, it doesn't matter. World's going to keep spinning, and nothing we do can change it.
4 court12b 2015-06-26
Or playing Witcher 3 or League.
7 virgojeep 2015-06-26
Where is all the anon hackers when we really need them? This is the perfect moment for them to shine. Hack everything and post TPP awareness everywhere.
1 Ivanjacob 2015-06-26
There's probably someone somewhere doing that right now. But saying that you're doing it would kind of ruin it.
1 Frenchie_21 2015-06-26
The thing is, it is very likely not to be digitized anywhere.
For a congressman to even see it they have to enter a room guarded by armed guards that is not open to the public in anyway shape or form, and read a paper version. They are not allowed to take notes, they are not allowed a private copy. They have to commit the whole thing to memory.
1 Arse_Cave 2015-06-26
Simply a question and not a criticism, if this is the case (armed guards, no public access, paper only copy and no note taking) where have these leaks come from? It can't all have been stored by memory, surely?
2 Frenchie_21 2015-06-26
This I'm not entirely sure, I would imagine probably from a country that is not the U.S.A. The things that were leaked though were old drafts. There is no text from the current agreement on the internet, this does not mean the leaks are not credible though.
6 oblivioustoobvious 2015-06-26
I'm sorry but the federal legalization of gay marriage is something to be excited about even if it's a distraction.
That said people should have enough of an attention span to both celebrate the legalization and fight the TPP.
1 joseph177 2015-06-26
Legal marriage is really just a 3 way contract with the state for supposed "benefits". You always had the right to form your own contracts (e.g commonlaw).
1 orrery 2015-06-26
I wouldn't say "excited" but yes, it easily falls under 9th amendment freedoms. Now, next step would be ending the drug war.
6 Intrepyd 2015-06-26
Goodbye generic drugs? This is fear mongering. You don't even understand it.
4 TheRealBaseborn 2015-06-26
I believe this is a serious enough topic that you should not just be scoffing. If you understand it better, then explain it.
5 T_E_D_D_Y 2015-06-26
In this TPP deal, would their be something now that would create an easier path for corporations in foreign nations to obtain U.S forces if they felt they were in threat? Oh lets say like getting your employees head chopped off, and hung on a fence. Showing something along the lines of terrorism.
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
If you mean strictly in a military sense, then no that isn't included in the chapters that we have so far. I assume that's a given, though, seeing as this is a treaty. Why do you ask?
1 Hamalmang 2015-06-26
No.
2 SupremeLeaderPao 2015-06-26
Well technically, there could be because no one has read it, but lets be real here, that wouldn't happen.
5 cmae34lars 2015-06-26
Uh... What? How exactly could this sub be deleted "under TPP law"?
2 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I'm working on making summaries, if you can't wait then read this
3 XSVskill 2015-06-26
Waiting for OP to deliver.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I did deliver last night? I'm still working on the other chapters but I'm an American so I need sleep.
2 XSVskill 2015-06-26
You tossed out some 'main points' and then linked us to the 96 pages you are summarizing with no notations on where in that 96 pages any of those main points can be found.
Thats not how it works. If you want to make a straightforward and concise argument then you need to make the point, AND THEN cite where EXACTLY the text is, in the document you draw those conclusions from. Since you are referencing just a single document, page numbers and paragraphs will suffice.
For example:
•Posting and downloading copyrighted content online will become a federal crime regardless of whether or not t's for commercial purposes and can result in a permanent ban from the internet.[pages 15-18, paragraphs 4-37.]
-8 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
It couldn't. He's lying.
1 stillbatting1000 2015-06-26
Stop embarrassing yourself. Everyone here knows you're full of it.
5 ExcuseMyTourettes 2015-06-26
The way I see things, there's nothing that can be done at this point. The world is already so corrupt that even if the people put up a fight, legislation absolutely key to their agenda will be passed regardless.
2 danintexas 2015-06-26
My thoughts on it. It is too late. The people (I am no exception) won't do shit. We are done.
4 zppa 2015-06-26
Sorry you can't pay attention to more than one thing. TPP sucks and equality is just as important.
-3 WideAwakeNWO 2015-06-26
Equality? That's what you call it? Nobody is saying that gays don't have right to be married, I'm just saying it's up to the states to decide based on a vote, not some 9 unelected, unaccountable supreme court justices.
No way does the Tpp and Gay marriage have equally consequences.
13 alcalde 2015-06-26
Um... yeah.
Sure they are, including 4 Supreme Court justices, Free Republic and Red State. And Fred Phelps' grave probably exploded.
Well, the Supreme Court of the United States of America (and lots of lower courts) said no, it's not. Civil rights of a minority are not to up to vote by the majority. States can't violate the Constitution. It's also in the Consitution that licenses in one state should be valid in all states. That's why you don't need 50 drivers' licenses or marriage licenses. It wasn't until 1967 that Loving vs. West Virginia struck down laws against interracial marriage and during that time on a drive down South you could be married in one state, not married the next, then married again when you crossed the border. That's not a tenable situation if we're really one country.
No, that IS the role of the Supreme Court. They're the final interpreter of the Constitution and they interpreted based on the reasons outlined above as well as the equal protection clause (laws apply to all or none).
By your "thinking", your freedom of speech is up to popular vote and 9 unelected, unaccountable supreme court justices shouldn't be able to say whether you can or can't be thrown in prison for speaking your mind or whether this or that NSA policy is an invasion of privacy or whether you can be thrown in Guantanamo indefinitely.
Boy, you people here blow your gasket about free speech and Ellen Pao and trade deals and the NSA, but suddenly when the Supreme Court makes a proper, rational ruling it's "who are they and this pesky Constitution I keep hearing about"?
No way does the Tpp and Gay marriage have equally consequences.
1 jumpjumpdie 2015-06-26
Equality is exactly what it is you silly man.
-1 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Well. Except for all 21 Republican presidential candidates, and nearly all GOP rank and file. Conservatives from coast to coast are saying that.
If you ever get some spare time, familiarize yourself with the 14th Amendment. You should read the whole Constitution, but until you have time for that, just check out the 14th. It will explain why you're wrong about how this is a state issue.
Oh heck, I'll post it right here for you:
Incidentally, this is the same language that keeps states from infringing the 2nd amendment, or violating the 1st amendment.
-4 MaryLS 2015-06-26
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
3 hellomondays 2015-06-26
Globalists push gay marriage, how?
-5 MaryLS 2015-06-26
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
-5 MaryLS 2015-06-26
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
1 zppa 2015-06-26
You can copypasta this as many times as you already have and it's still bullshit.
-6 MaryLS 2015-06-26
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
2 alcalde 2015-06-26
So let me get this straight (no pun intended) - allowing homosexuals to marry will DEstabilize families? Is Free Republic leaking?
1 Sir_Edmund_Bumblebee 2015-06-26
I'm curious, how does gay people getting married destabilize other families?
-7 MaryLS 2015-06-26
Gay marriage and the TPP are both being pushed by the globalists. The cannot tolerate stable families and communities. Most gays do not recognized how they are being used to destabilize society. Once the NWO agenda is complete gay rights will be gone along with everyone else's -- an equality of sorts, I guess.
4 Quantumhead 2015-06-26
You down with TPP?
Yeah, you know me.
3 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
7 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I agree with the fact that we need to come together and overcome our pointless boundaries such as nationality and religion but this is not the way to do it. This is giving all the power to one individual group of people that have only their best interests at heart to the detriment of others. We can have unity without selling our souls.
3 TheBigBadDuke 2015-06-26
I guess it all comes down to who will be running the world. Will it be the psychopaths?
3 fitzdepl 2015-06-26
livefreeordie
3 Reveers 2015-06-26
Can't stop globalization, so get on board. It's not just a conspiracy it's inevitable in the long run.
The best thing we can try to do is preserve individuality while recognizing the greater world we live in... accepting others for who they are and together for a better world.
Imo, Star Trek saw it coming and got it mostly right in the values it tried to instill through the prime directive and the peaceful leadership qualities demonstrated by its captains.
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I think you're confusing unity with a dictatorship. There won't be any accepting others for who they are. It's just that everyone will be sharing the same corrupt corporate leaders.
1 zangent 2015-06-26
Globalization =/= mass human rights violations and unstoppable government-aided monopolies.
3 edward117 2015-06-26
This isn't a democracy, we don't choose anything. Time for this to change. Immediately.
3 InternetPropagandist 2015-06-26
It's really easy to simply stop purchasing items that corrupt corporations sell. Stop giving them business. The people are partially to blame for this because they are too stupid to figure this out or too lazy to google.
This obviously doesn't apply to the items and services we are forced or coerced into buying, but the vast majority of things we buy don't have to come from corrupt corporations.
It really is that simple. Mind-bogglingly simple.
1 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
Like what, doesn't come from corrupt corporations?
1 InternetPropagandist 2015-06-26
For starters, nobody should be purchasing products or services from near-monopolistic corporations or any company that profits from killing people. Sorry, that means you can't drink Mountain Dew and beer while watching old men in tights play with balls. Nobody should purchase cable/satellite for a variety of reasons. Nobody should be purchasing any vehicles below the top 10 percent (or whatever percentage you think is reasonable) most fuel efficient. Anyone who has extra time should figure out how to run biodiesel.
How many things do you buy that you could find at garage sales? How many things do you buy that you could make yourself? How many items have you replaced with new simply because you're too lazy to figure out how to fix the old one? How many things have you purchased because you were bored and had extra cash? I could go on and on, but hopefully you get it.
Basically, I realize that this will never work because people are simply too fucking dumb, but I find enjoyment telling retards how they can easily help themselves. Brando and baitin!'
1 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
Everything you buy, whether it comes from a yard sale, or farmer's market, or fucking Oxfam has involvement with a corrupt corporation. Whether it be the the vehicle they use, the clothes they wear, the metal used in the container that holds the organic beeswax they buy. Has cooperation from a corporation. Because no one is Amish anymore. Sorry, but I derive real pleasure from exposing the hypocrisy of sanctimonious, self righteous, and myopic 'revolutionaries' Or perhaps they forget the slave labor that went into constructing their favorite Internet access device.
2 InternetPropagandist 2015-06-26
True, but does buying a used chair a a yard sale boost the profits of any corporation whatsoever? Maybe oil companies because of the gasoline, but you were gonna spend that gas anyway going to Home Depot for a new chair! "Involvement" and profits are two completely separate things. If this idea caught on, the corporations would be forced to significantly increase planned obsolescence to the point of it being very obvious to everyone, which should decrease the number of consumers because they would be outraged.
You're saying that all corrupt corporations would receive the exact same profits in world A where everyone buys as many used items as possible and world B where everyone buys everything new?
How am I a hypocrite? I never said that I buy 0 percent new items because that's nearly impossible, and how would you even know if I bought this computer used from a garage sale or not? Why would you even have a problem with somebody trying to cut down on landfill waste and corporate profits? What the fuck?
2 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
I don't have a problem with it. I was drinking. Misread everything. Have a good sunday.
1 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
I don't have a problem with it. I was drinking. Misread everything. Have a good sunday.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Actually the vast majority of things we buy do come from corrupt corporations, it's just that there have been so many mergers that it's hard to keep track. Unless you're living on nothing but items from the dollar store, you're supporting these companies with your weekly paycheck.
2 InternetPropagandist 2015-06-26
I do really well buying things on craigslist, garage sales, salvation army, etc. None of that money goes to the profits of any corporation. And it's cheaper.
I also ride my bike to any locations nearby that I normally use a vehicle for as long as weather permits it. I could seriously go on all day about how easy it is to have a great life without supporting mega corporations. Most people are simply too lazy to take 5 minutes and creatively meditate on how they will proceed with protesting. I protest all day every day. How about you?
I think the major problem here is that 99 percent of the people in this sub and elsewhere who cry about corruption can't separate themselves from their consumerist addiction. They are addicts who give money to people that they then cry about. It's pretty funny, actually.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
That sounds great except that craigslist, garage sales, and the salvation army all get their stuff from major corporations. If we all did that, we would run out of stuff really fast. That's like saying one vegan will stop the slaughter of animals for food. If that's what you believe and want to do, it's fine but the major corporations probably don't notice or care.
Business isn't a problem. Corrupt government giving power to corrupt business is. If we were to take the salaries of the billionaire CEOs and give that money to the employees, everybody would have jobs and be able to only work a few hours a day and everyone would be happy. It's the fact that the CEOs want to line their pockets with even more money and become even more greedy that we have this issue.
2 InternetPropagandist 2015-06-26
I am 100 percent anti-vegan, but I'll use your argument anyway.
If 95 percent of people became vegans, then the slaughtering of animals would slow down to a trickle. Using this same argument, if 95 percent of people educated themselves on which corporations use slave labor, pollute the environment, etc, then these corporations would be forced to produce goods that they can market as "slavery free" or "pollution-free." If 95 percent of people educated themselves on planned obsolescence, then corporations would be forced to produce "PO-free" goods. We already see this with "fair trade" and "humanely raised." Whether or not these terms are used correctly by the corporations, or whether they paid government officials for the regulations to be lax, is another story. It would then come down to the consumers again to educate themselves about the lax regulations, or corporations simply lying, etc.
The alternative is to "call your local representative," which will do literally nothing unless you pay the government official more than the corporation in bribes.
3 diomed3 2015-06-26
Burn these corporations and their leadership to the ground then.
3 TwoDollarDrink 2015-06-26
Or you can realize these globalists are going to do whatever they want and spend your precious time and efforts building sustainable farm communities and aquaponic greenhouses. When I realized politics is an illusion of choice by overlords whose aim is to keep us enslaved, my priorities first switched to "prepping" then to farming. Farming and teaching others how to be self-sustaining is the only hope we have to live through the nightmare (population reduction) these sociopaths are scheming up for us "useless eaters." Oh, and non-compliance and mass jury nullification.
1 star_particles 2015-06-26
Self sustainable homestead is a huge step in the right direction. I'm living on a farm in Alaska picking up how to do it
2 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
2 Skepticali 2015-06-26
Can I get one link to what the bad part of TPP is? I literally have no idea what it is, or why it's bad. However I do see the concern and suspicion with the events as of lately
4 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I edited my original post with a summary and link to the IP chapter document
1 zangent 2015-06-26
The bad part is called the TPP
2 kippykups 2015-06-26
Can someone explain the lack of sources
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
What do you mean lack of sources?
2 Lonecrow66 2015-06-26
Exactly! This gay stuff is over the top. I'm just hoping they have nothing left to fight for and can finally just shut up and live their lives.
Now we can get onto some more important issues that really impact more people.
1 TheCaptainhat 2015-06-26
Amen, brother. Gay rights in the States mean nothing if gays are still slaughtered in several countries all over the world. I guess the "Gay Community" only includes those living in the western hemisphere. Exactly .001% of the world's problems were solved by this.
2 R3dTim 2015-06-26
If we're so weak as a country and a population that we get caught up and distracted this easily, then we deserve nothing better than TPP and all the bullshit that it brings with it. Better move out of the cities.
2 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Even if you don't think all of us will be entirely affected by this, don't you think it's time for us to stop saying "fuck our kids, it's their problem" about everything?
1 R3dTim 2015-06-26
While, yes, I do wish we as a nation would change our path, we won't. The majority are too stupid to see past gay rights and the confederate flag. So instead of worrying and wondering about what will or what might happen with the foxes running the hen house, those few of us who are aware need to begin taking steps to ensure that we aren't caught up in the aftermath.
Its the whole "sphere of concern vs sphere of control" thing.
I'm not advocating that we should stop trying to impart some wisdom, but I am saying that we need to be taking action to protect ourselves from this idiocy while we do it.
2 turdhole 2015-06-26
keep paying your taxes like good little citizens
2 willowmarie27 2015-06-26
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/release-full-text-trans-pacific-partnership-american-public-ahead-congressional-vote
2 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
1 gingerraege 2015-06-26
It showed 500 signatures for you? It's only showing 377 for me 5 hours after your comment. Are signatures being deleted?
http://imgur.com/yIHIyIq
2 unknowndabber 2015-06-26
It's hilarious if you look at the top comments of all the gay marriage posts they're saying this week in news has been insane but they don't understand all this is a diversion
2 trinsic-paridiom 2015-06-26
What would you guys do if you could build a community of like minded people to act from a place of power, instead of always reacting to what the government is doing?
I have an idea about organizing, but Im not sure many people can see past the real distraction: Expecting government to do something about it. If you are interested head over to /r/Commonwealths/ Its a project that has been on going. Lets talk what we can do instead of always talking about how bad things are, I have a lot of ideas that can bring about real power to change this.
2 rancid_fugu 2015-06-26
I know how to access the school's PA system. I could get the message out to the entire student body. Would that be too much?
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Yeah I would say that's too much. You don't want to surprise people or shove it down their throats because then they'll be less open and receptive. We don't just need to get people to know that the TPP exists. A lot of people do know it exists, they just believe the lies of the government that it's a good thing and that it will bring in more jobs. We need to have a conversation with them explaining how it's dangerous and that's hard to do when you can't speak with them one on one and answer their questions.
2 rancid_fugu 2015-06-26
You don't think an in depth call to action speech would open their eyes and incite them to do something?
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I do, just not in the school setting. Hacking into a school's PA is a pretty wild idea as it is so I'm worried that people would just think you went crazy instead of listening to what you have to say. Conspiracy theorists are already labeled insane so you have to tiptoe through this because one slipup and everyone has permission to dismiss everything you say. They're looking for a reason to not listen to you because they are comfortable and don't want to be bothered. Don't give them that reason.
1 m4050m3 2015-06-26
The day this is passed sounds like a good day to buy a shotgun.
No, that wasn't a joke.
4 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Please do not post things like this. I do not want people to think this is a violent movement. Thank you.
11 SinisterSlime 2015-06-26
Since when is arming yourself a violent movement?
3 stealthboy 2015-06-26
Remember, these days self defense is not allowed. The state will protect you.
1 sagmentus 2015-06-26
In every modern western country except the US.
1 m4050m3 2015-06-26
Exactly. I'm just stating the fact that if this sort of thing were to be passed I would no longer feel very safe in this country and would definitely be working on my second amendment rights.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Sorry, somebody linked to how to make a pipe bomb and I thought it was the same guy. By all means protect yourselves just don't be the one starting the violence.
1 HulaguKan 2015-06-26
What are you going to do? Shout at the internet?
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
It got the attention of at least 700 people and the support of at least 600 so I'd say it's a pretty good method.
1 orrery 2015-06-26
Unless any action comes from it then it's intangible. A thousand useless well wishers won't get anything done. You have to inspire people to take actual action. Pull up a list of the Yeas and organize people in those areas to eliminate the vermin.
1 moet6000 2015-06-26
Yay,, I want to give you gold
1 moet6000 2015-06-26
This is real... CENSORING THE INTERNET
1 Forgive_my_Ignorance 2015-06-26
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo/transpacific-partnership-obama_b_7665862.html
1 moet6000 2015-06-26
Everyone should know about this
1 Alvargon75 2015-06-26
TPP afects me if I live in Europe?
2 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Maybe, it's linked with the TISA which affects the entire EU. In fact, they've already leaked all of those documents so you can read them all here.
0 vasotheserb 2015-06-26
No, I believe this is a trade deal between the U.S., Southeast Asia, and Mexico (?). But anyway, Europe need not worry
1 comradeken 2015-06-26
Man how the absolute fuck did this happen? This is completely crazy. I feel so lost like nothing can be done - this isn't a good feeling.
1 Jasperodus 2015-06-26
Thank you.
1 snyx 2015-06-26
What about the 4 terrorist attacks around the world, good job CIA, you did it again.
1 ThunderPreacha 2015-06-26
They are digging their own graves. Let them because the populations of the so called free world need a fucking ton of bricks on their tv zombie heads.
1 FantastiqueDutchie 2015-06-26
''The end of America'', what about Europe?
2 Tavernknight 2015-06-26
Europe is already over.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I'm American so I'm not as informed on European government as I should be therefore I didn't want to make any assumptions. The American government is already on it's way down since our dollar isn't worth anything, unemployment and welfare rates are slowly going up, and half the country is using Obamacare which the next president could vote out causing people that can't afford it to switch to private insurance which if timed out with a stock market crash (even if it's just a minor one) could cripple the American economy to a near unrecoverable state. That's why I feel that taking action on this issue is so urgent. We are that close to losing the American dollar and if we're already making world government laws, it would be an easy step to make a one world currency that everyone would be supporting. One world government, one world currency, one world leader. There are people in this very thread calling me crazy but it really could happen that fast.
1 stealthboy 2015-06-26
Nobody can do anything about it. Our country is destroying itself and I daresay we're past the point where it matters anymore.
1 Deewweed 2015-06-26
I would post this, in fact I had a giant Facebook post all mocked up. But then I realize there's nothing we can do. Being labeled as a crazy lunatic or being told if it's a big deal it won't pass. Nothing will put this through the mind controlled thick headed American. This has been on the fast track the past century we can't stop a motion that has already passed.
2 overandundertbwg 2015-06-26
I just got told it won't pass. Haha and then the person tired to undermine my intelligence. The wonderful world we live in.
1 takeyovitamins 2015-06-26
I read the link you posted and it doesn't seem to contain any of the claims you've made. Could OP quote or cite any of his claims?
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Which claims specifically? I linked to the document and you can search the page for individual terms in your browser. It's also separated into individual labeled sections so it should be easy to guess what's in each part.
2 takeyovitamins 2015-06-26
I was reading the article and it seemed to say the exact opposite of what you claimed in your post. So as a good OP, specifically point out where it says this horrible stuff. You make it seem like the apocalypse and other people make it out to be an international treaty that has pros and cons.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
First off, it's not an article so obviously you didn't read it. Second, which horrible things are you talking about specifically...? My summary is exactly that, a summary of the entire document. If you don't give me a particular point, I can't tell you where it is. Also, as I said before and you ignored, you can search the document yourself in your browser.
1 takeyovitamins 2015-06-26
Don't even respond to my post because I will just read future posts/comments. I hope this isn't as horrible as you make it out to be.
1 Mumbah_ 2015-06-26
Why have I never seen anything about the TPP? I am canadian and this law sounds kind of scary.
2 Vineyard_ 2015-06-26
It's being negociated in secret, everything we know about it has come through wikileaks.
1 criticalthinkitout 2015-06-26
Remember, no matter what is passed, the reality is the foundation all this crap stands on is fragile. It will be rough to unravel this kind of corporate hegemony, but we need to just keep being active, keep talking, keep thinking, and most importantly ALWAYS KEEP PUSHING. Its all we have at this point.
1 orrery 2015-06-26
These guys proposed actions do nothing to remove the criminals from power. The only proper form of protest to run for public office. That means YOU become a Senator or Rep or Judge or President.
Once elected, officials can "represent" according to their own interests.
1 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
1 star_particles 2015-06-26
That's what they want
1 orrery 2015-06-26
I doubt they want us killing their high level infiltration agents.
1 SovereignMan 2015-06-26
Rule 4. Removed.
1 Salute_The_Bud 2015-06-26
I hope that you don't mind that I copied and pasted some tidbits from your post about the TPP to my facebook post today.. I also linked to the wikileaks leak of the investment chapter to my facebook.
it's great that gay marriage is now allowed across the 50 states, but people have the right to know what is actually going on.
fight the good fight, friends
1 CheeseVikings 2015-06-26
We could also engage in a form of non violent resistance. Patent trolling
File a patent on the mental process leading to 4 being the answer for 2+2
Have your genes mapped on 23andme and then declare an entire chromosome your intellectual property rtc
If enough people do this it overwhelms the system. Its a tactic thats been used before (for instance people who dont believe in welfare advocate everyone trying to get foodstamps etc to bankrupt it)
1 [deleted] 2015-06-26
Can someone ELI5 it for me?
1 make_mind_free2go 2015-06-26
so glad someone realizes wth is going on. the TPP isn't understood, or it's just ignored. THIS: is how people wonder "how" shit hit fan with them totally unaware.
trying to make others aware is truly difficult as many are way to complacent in their ignorance of (fake) bliss. don't know if age matters, some young people may/or may not know,
the question is: HOW do we make people AWARE of it & WANT to do SOMETHING?
edit: i've been signing petitions, seems like for 'effing ever - but the 'regular' working person NEEDS to know.
edit 2: fuck it: everyone should just print info & hand it out to family, friends, co-workers (if it doesn't get them fired), we can't MAKE anyone do a damn thing, but at least we can get the info to them. i can do it -- can you?
1 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
http://wikileaks.org/tpp/ Go to the source of the leaked documents
1 TheRealBaseborn 2015-06-26
Can someone explain this? How can "mental processes" be patented?
0 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
3 TheRealBaseborn 2015-06-26
I understand that, but my point is, how does one enforce something of this nature.
1 Naturindoor 2015-06-26
I asked a co-worker if he had heard about the trans pacific partnership. He said "yeah, same sex couples can get married now". No
I tried explaining to him that TPP was a deal being negotiated in secret that could allow corporations to sue when their profits were being interfered with.
His response was along the lines of "Good, we can't keep bailing them out when they lose money."
He then said he loves America because he can walk down the street and look at the trees and the parks and doesn't see kids drinking out of creeks so we must be doing okay. As well as adding that we just shouldn't know about everything the government is doing.
I gave up on that conversation.
How do all of you talk to people about this?
I don't know how to spread the word when it seems that the majority of people don't care to understand what is going on.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
It's sad but you have to fight fire with fire. That's the reason I made this post in all caps with a subtle level of almost fear mongering. That's how the msm gets the attention of the masses so that's what they respond to. People are raised with an egoic viewpoint where they don't care about anything that doesn't affect them directly. So you have to overcome this with the same scare tactics that the msm uses but with the truth about the TPP. I've listed off the main points of the IP chapter of the TPP in the OP so go through those and find which ones you think would get the attention of the people and start with that. Look at the tumblr feminism movements and the obesity and LGBTQ acceptance movements. People have no problem protesting and standing up for something as long as they feel they will be getting something out of it.
1 SovereignMan 2015-06-26
Rule 6. No caps lock. Removed. Please edit your title and re-submit.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Thanks for waiting until this thread died to say anything. GG mods.
0 bamtron5 2015-06-26
Main reason i dont do anything: fear of arrest. Of futility. Of being labeled insane. Of having to defend my position, rather than just attacking the enemy.
Frankly, i think we should fund a superpac and demand seats at the table. Try and break the rules because the rules haven been broken so many times by our gov and corps. 1 funded group that demands a televised response to this debate. Or in a townhall. Hijack the media. I wont protest unless we organize. Im by myself.
1 zangent 2015-06-26
Ditto my friend.
And I'm just a high school student. I don't want to rot in Guantanamo yet.
0 RDS 2015-06-26
Great post and your summary at the end is fantastic . Is it possible for you to add references to the bullet points from the leaked chapters? I think it would add a lot of weight and that it would be good for reposting.
0 friendlystar 2015-06-26
"TPP IS THE NEW WORLD ORDER. SHUT UP ABOUT GAY MARRIAGE AND FLAGS AND FUCKING DO SOMETHING" - Why not all 3?
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
We are doing that. Everyone other sub is doing gay marriage and flags and we've got TPP. I don't expect everyone else to not talk about one of the biggest SCOTUS decisions ever. I just wanted one single place where we could stay focused on important issues while everything else is going on.
0 SixVISix 2015-06-26
Tl;dr
0 bluto20 2015-06-26
um what is TPP?
0 musashi123 2015-06-26
What the fuck is ttp?
0 rbslilpanda 2015-06-26
I'm done with this fucking planet..."Hop up in my spaceship and leave Earth, mothafucka...I'm gone..."
1 overandundertbwg 2015-06-26
Can I join you. I'll bring food
0 rbslilpanda 2015-06-26
That depends...do you like pastries? I must have pastries...
1 overandundertbwg 2015-06-26
Qui qui ! Will make a pit stop in France
0 rbslilpanda 2015-06-26
Jump aboard my friend and feed me some sourdough!!!
-1 sleaze_bag_alert 2015-06-26
The end times apocalypse? Ok buddy that is a great way to get rational people to take you seriously. What's next, gonna blame storms on gay people bringing god's wrath?
8 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Relevant username. Fine, I removed that bit because I won't let comments like this slow us down.
-9 FortHouston 2015-06-26
Et tu.
-1 ewiener22 2015-06-26
I don't like the way you're talking to me OP
2 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I've gotten that complaint a lot. I'm actually a pretty shy guy, I have social anxiety. This entire post has been an unimaginable amount of stress that has lead me to nearly deleting it numerous times. But I really want to make a difference, regardless of whether or not this post leads to anything, and I remind myself it's always hard to make a change and that the greatest leaders always faced extreme adversity.
That post is essentially me digging deep and channeling that inner great leader in me to get people's attention the best way possible. As unorthodox as it may be, it's worked and if only 10% of the people here actually do something, that's over 200 people which is a great start. It doesn't matter if everybody likes me as a person, all that matters is that we see some real change.
-2 FortHouston 2015-06-26
That is melodramatic.
Regardless, Gay marriage has been an ongoing issue for decades. It is a serious issue about human rights instead of a distraction from TPP. Activists like me have been fighting for Gay marriage in Texas for many years.
Despite my activism for Gay marriage, I still contacted my state legislators about TPP, signed petitions, etc. Just because some cannot follow more than one issue at a time does not mean the rest of cannot do that.
Also, the majority of Americans support TPP regardless of the valid viewpoints against it on this subreddit. So every timeline and Twitter feed probably will not cover the TPP as you think it should.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/05/27/us-usa-trade-idUSKBN0OC2WW20150527
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121989/trans-pacific-partnership-divides-left-dems-support-free-trade
8 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I'm not trying to take anything away from gay marriage. I just feel that it is being manipulated as a distraction. If you can multi-task, that's awesome but the hivemind in general struggles with staying focused.
The majority of Americans support TPP because they don't know what it is. We're not trying to raise awareness of it's existence, we're trying to shine the light on what it really is. Just from what we've seen so far, it's transforming the American democracy into a communist dictatorship run by corporations. If the American people new that, they wouldn't support it for a second. I wasn't clear on that, though, so I'll try to edit my post to that point, thanks.
7 alcalde 2015-06-26
What, someone paid the Supreme Court justices and all of the parties involved to have a decision right now just to distract attention that didn't exist for a trade agreement that also doesn't exist yet?
This is absolute, complete hubris and delusions of grandeur. My cause is so important that everything from historic Supreme Court decisions to the weather are being engineered to distract from it! It's just not possible that I could be wrong!
It's a trade agreement; we know what it is. We've been through this before but you're probably too young to remember or possibly even been born yet (NAFTA). People right now are just inventing imaginary things about TPP and getting themselves worked up over nothing. An historic moment in the civil rights history of the United States occurs that we should all remember where we were when we heard and it bizarrely gets dismissed as a "distraction" from your own obsession. That's a shame. I'm old enough to remember when gays couldn't serve in the military and were actively hunted out, when professions like teachers kept quiet about their sexuality for fear of dismissal (it being legal to be fired for being gay in almost every state at that time, and it's still legal in several today), when landlords wouldn't rent to gay people, when "f*g" was dropped in casual conversation (and even movies!) and when being in the closet was the norm. Gay people got as much love from mainstream politicians, religious or corporations as ISIS gets in America today. Hell, I remember when two Sims being allowed to "move in together" in The SIms 1 generated significant controversy!
What happened today was an incredible, historic event for this country that, as Obama said, makes us all a little more free. It's not some road bump in your ideological obsession. A couple got a marriage license in Texas today that they've been waiting for for FIFTY-FIVE YEARS. I started getting teary-eyed as I typed that. Who the heck are you to write " If you can multi-task, that's awesome..."? That's effing AWESOME, period.
No. No, you're not. You look at the entire world through a set of ideological blinders in which every action, no matter how benign, is to be interpreted as invisible machinations of powerful unseen hands that you,and only you, are enlightened enough to realize (and I'm a former conspiracy addict so don't try to BS me that it's not). Your Alex Jones and Infowars and Rense.com and Coast To Coast web pages run articles from anonymous sources that paint some sort of wild-eyed story about a trade agreement THAT'S NOT FINISHED and NO ONE OUTSIDE THE NEGOTIATORS HAS SEEN YET. It fits your worldview so you buy into it hook, line and sinker. You then get so worked up that you compare youself to the freedom fighters of Tianemen Square (something I'm also old enough to remember first hand, as well as the collapse of Commmunisn across Eastern Europe). I knew people who risked death escaping East Germany in a false trunk of car. Sorry, you folks are not at their level nor is your cause even remotely comparable.
Blls*t. Wikipedia source for that? Of course not. That's just your extremist ideology talking, the same way Richard Stallman told me not being able to make a copy of a DVD for a friend was "immoral" or conservatives claiming marriage equality is the death of democracy in America. It's overblown hystrionics, paranoia and simply making up facts to suit your worldview/narrative.
Again, I knew people who lived in REAL Communist dictatorships. How dare you dimish their experiences by spewing this kind of nonsense.
If it wasn't something ridiculous that you just made up, they wouldn't support it for a second.
Seriously - take a deep breath and a step back and gain some perspective here. You're allowing yourself to become hysterical over something that, even if it were true, you couldn't do anything about and woudln't affect your life anyway. Here's what works for me: ask yourself (sometimes out loud helps), "Is this the MOST likely explanation or the LEAST likely explanation?" I find this helps put things in perspective and realize when a claim is improbable and thus needs Sagan's "extraordinary evidence". Then you often find it doesn't even have regular evidence, but without that perspective you wouldn't have gone looking for any evidence at all because it told you what you wanted to/already believed.
Good luck.
1 overandundertbwg 2015-06-26
Doesn't affect our lives ? I was gona up vote you until you said that. Clearly youre down playing and simplifying something important.
0 zangent 2015-06-26
His point about gay marriage is valid.
His point is that they just so happened to vote on it right around when fast track passed so news outlets would cover gay marriage rather than the TPP.
Gay marriage is a news story, and the government wants to use it.
Edit:
Ah, nvm. So how's that sweet, sweet taxpayer cash?
4 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
I have pointed this out repeatedly in this thread. YOU don't know what it really is. It's damned presumptuous of you to lecture when you couldn't even be bothered to learn the first thing about it.
Oh my god. You have to be a shill. Seriously. No one is this stupid.
-3 no1113 2015-06-26
Jesus. Stop right fucking there. Apparently you never knew that America NEVER HAD a democracy in the first place.
Some of the points you make are not horrible, but you bathe them in such annoyingly melodramatic jargon that it will really make people roll their eyes up at what you're saying.
8 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered crazy and I'm getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true. I can't win. Are we a conspiracy group or a fact group? Make up your minds!
5 alcalde 2015-06-26
Oh there's a Freudian slip if I ever saw one!!!!
If those two are mutually exclusive in your mind... well.... THINK ABOUT IT. Without facts, your conspiracy theory needs to be rejected, doesn't it?
0 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
5 Throwaway4Censorship 2015-06-26
Wow.
2 welldunnfarms 2015-06-26
Yup, you totally just blew it.. You did make a few good points. Just shush now please. You are making the rest of us look like crazy people . Lol
1 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Hey, don't leave me out! I'm slamming you for all the falsehoods you've been posting! And for being too lazy to even learn about the thing you're so worked up about!
1 stillbatting1000 2015-06-26
Stop embarrassing yourself. Everyone here knows you're full of it.
-4 no1113 2015-06-26
No. You're getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true, BUT SAYING THEM IN AN UNNECESSARILY MELODRAMATIC MANNER.
There's a difference, okay?
Not when you don't present your information in a balanced, critically-thinking manner you can't.
I don't know what "we" are because I won't personally speak for anyone but myself, but I'd say that I personally focus more on facts, and it seems to me that this is precisely why you're getting slammed - because you're not understanding that, again, you're filling the few facts that you point out with SO much unnecessarily melodramatic crap that it makes the ultimate message almost indecipherable and useless.
The minds are made up. You're just not being intelligent about how you say things.
5 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
The only complaint you have is about my melodramatic tone but that's just your opinion and you're trying to pass it off as a way to discredit what I'm saying. Yeah, I did go a little heavy on the Braveheart style speech but I felt it was necessary to get people's attention and really start a movement. It doesn't matter whether or not you like how I talk, all that matters is the information (which you yourself said wasn't horrible) and that this gets people's attention and they do something. It's got 13 upvotes as I'm typing this so I'd say it's going according to plan. Apparently this community is full of great people, they just aren't usually the ones that leave comments.
-4 no1113 2015-06-26
What? That's all in your head, man. lol. Trying to "discredit" what you're saying? Where am I trying to do that? I'm literally TELLING you that you have valid points. Wow, man. Come on. You're beginning to sound like a paranoid type. I'm telling you you have valid points, but you discredit YOURSELF with how you present them.
Na, man. You will NEVER start any movement just by anything that you type out in a computer on reddit. I mean COME ON. If what you really want to do is start a movement, then you have to do a LOOOOT more than that.
Wanting to do the right thing and inform people is a GOOD thing, and I'm not trying to dissuade you from that, but there are better ways of doing it than what you did is what I'm saying.
No. It really doesn't in the bigger scheme of things. You're right. I'm often guilty of having my message get lost in how I deliver it too though, so I'm also aware that sometimes it's not a horrible idea to try to say things in a manner that people will more likely take seriously instead of roll their eyes at. Just saying.
On a certain level, yes. This isn't incorrect. However, there is indeed some information whose meaning is effected by how the info is presented.
Because it isn't. I still stand behind that. Data's data in and of itself. The TPP issue is a MAJOR issue.
Yeah but, like I said in previous posts, a lot of people might look at your OP and go "Dude, stfu w/this. GTFO." just because you're going so over the top in how you're saying certain things.
Okay. Fair enough. I'd imagine it would have gotten less downvotes, however, without the hyperbolic presentation, but okay.
What? That seems like a just...not a very good, intelligent comment on your part. Generalizations like that are not a good thing. But, again, okay...
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
That's the part I want to address. I'm not trying to be the supreme leader or anything. If you've got better ideas, let's hear them. I want to this thing to get as huge as possible so I'm open to all suggestions.
2 no1113 2015-06-26
The biggest key, as I've said before MAAAAANNNY times before in other posts, involves the entirety of the human race putting away all the indoctrinated differences that have gotten brainwashed into us and that have gotten so many of us to be racist against one another. If we realize we are all one people and begin helping each other as such, then TPTB will have absolutely zero power over us.
Short of this global acknowledgment, it seems it will continue to be very easy to keep us divided and very controlled.
2 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
That sounds great but that's a dream, not a goal. How do you expect us to come together without getting the word out? That is the ultimate plan but this is how we get there.
2 no1113 2015-06-26
If we don't do that, then we might as well just keep taking it up the ass. What chance do a people who can't help one another have at fighting that power above them covertly (and overtly) controlling them?
Putting the word out is included in it.
I'm all about putting the word out as well though.
-2 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
6 omenofdread 2015-06-26
I think you mean to say no one knows what it means, entails, or does.
Except the people telling us we need it, that is.
SMH the majority of Americans... they have no fucking clue. How can they support something they are unaware of exactly?
1 alcalde 2015-06-26
If no one knows what it means, entails or does, how can you folks be so incensed about it? That's like hating a movie that hasn't been released or screened to critics yet.
Oh the lack of self-awareness. How can you oppose something you're unaware of exactly?
4 omenofdread 2015-06-26
5 of 29 chapters are available online via wikileaks.
Most people will not have gotten that far.
The docs available online exist in a legal-flux, as someone will probably get in trouble for leaking them. We'll probably never know who, furthermore we won't hear much about it after it passes.
People that oppose it have read the chapters.
Why the secrecy? Because they know it's a game changer?
who the fuck is "you folks" exactly there, friend?
0 alcalde 2015-06-26
This is pathetic in this sub. People are outraged over TPP because.... 1) Something something I want to pirate Game Of Thrones. 2) Stuff they make up out of thin air.
Meanwhile, an absolutely historic moment in American history has been reached and you're getting DOWNVOTED for pointing it out. It's disgusting.
Congratulations on getting marriage equality in Texas!
0 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Who's downvoting marriage equality? I think it's a wonderful thing. I'm bisexual so that law might apply to me someday. It's just that literally every other sub is talking about it non-stop and it seems a little suspicious that right as the fast track goes through, we have a shooting and gay marriage is passed. I'm just trying to keep everybody focused. Celebrate gay marriage all you want but don't forget the important things going on behind the scenes.
-2 colinKaepernicksHat 2015-06-26
Do something? It's too late. TTP will pass no matter what we do because too many people are texting and working to be worried about this matter. ids too late
24 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Damn, is this sub nothing but shills or something? Why can't we come together for a single cause like our forefathers did instead of picking each other apart?
It's never too late. Don't fall for the fear tactics of the elite. We CAN get the word out and we CAN stop this. Hell, if everybody's busy texting then text them about TPP. Americans are smarter than you think, they just need a little bravery and information. That's where we come in.
8 machinegunjoe_94 2015-06-26
Im fuckin with you man I think we should come together like our forefathers did, but I've asked people if they even know what the TPP is and they could just not be bothered with it. People just don't fuckin care and the few that do our voices won't be heard.
7 TheMassAwakening 2015-06-26
We will come together. No one person can do everything but everyone can do something and every day more of us want the same thing, we have a common cause and our consciousness is expanding. Don't lose faith in humanity. Humanity is like an ocean, if a few drops are dirty the ocean does not become dirty. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what they set in place, mass non compliance is the answer. We have to be the change we want to see in the world and we will project that outwardly. Like everything else it's just a choice away. We have to be patient. It has to be point blank staring us in the face before the majority acknowledge this.
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Sorry, bro. It just felt like I got swamped with the expected wall of opposition. Then don't ask them if they know what the TPP is. Ask them if they want major corporations to be their government with legal access to all of their information. The NSA got people's attention and they cared, they just didn't do anything. I'm trying to stir up that same sense of care but turn it into action this time.
5 machinegunjoe_94 2015-06-26
Then we need to stir it up a lot more, I'm all for action definitely over words. What'd you got planned id be more then willing to help.
3 alcalde 2015-06-26
Did you ever stop, read aloud what you just wrote, and say out loud "Now I'm just making things up."
I've got a set of car keys for you if you can show me a credible source (say, Wikipedia, New York Times) that says that TPP will allow "major corporations to be [our] government".
2 court12b 2015-06-26
Unfortunately it looks like it's going to be passed before any of us get a chance to show it to you.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Where's my car?
3 alcalde 2015-06-26
Maybe that should tell you something - that you folks are getting worked up over nothing.
3 moosebear7476 2015-06-26
never underestimate the power of stupidity in large numbers. The optimist in me says not all Americans are morons, the realist in me says otherwise. The vast majority are gonna be too busy riding the marriage rainbow to redirect their attention to the TPP. i believe after all this time, since 2007 in my state, TPTB decided they were willing to concede this topic for a hysteria that completely glosses over the real, more pressing issues like the TPP and pushing the agenda of "nothing to see here, keep moving"
2 maiqthetrue 2015-06-26
Ok, so you're gonna have your tie amen square moment. You stand up against the military police. And at best you'll be in jail and at worst you'll be dead.
5 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I'm fine with giving my life up for a better future for our children. But that's not going to happen because if it did, it would just give attention and validity to our movement. You yourself just proved that because all you said was Tiananmen Square moment and everyone knows what you're talking about. If we had that kind of press, TPP would be delayed for decades.
-1 alcalde 2015-06-26
When you're comparing some pointless, irrelevant trade agreement to people who died for democracy that's a sign you're gripped in delusions and need to step way, way, way back for awhile. Being able to pirate Game of Thrones isn't comparible to standing up to a totalitarian regime.
1 zangent 2015-06-26
Shill detected
2 monopolywitness 2015-06-26
Our forefathers were not using WiFi, had to show up
3 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
That's why I added the bottom two steps. But wifi isn't a bad thing. They didn't use it because they didn't have it. For us it's a tool to scream our voices as loud as possible. In fact, it can be even more effective than in person protests because of how our media is controlled these days.
-7 Panda_Annie 2015-06-26
[try this](www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ)
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I think I like this bot but I'm downvoting you for the lack of relevant and helpful information.
0 Panda_Annie 2015-06-26
not a bot
2 ForeverDownvoted 2015-06-26
I've spent years trying to educate everyone around me about net neutrality and shit like TPP. Like long conversations where I explain what's going on and the implications for them since they don't know the internet much beyond Google and Facebook. They get the point and understand usually with a "that's total bullshit". And that's the end of it.
Today as people were hooting about the confederate flag and gay marriage, I said "convenient timing for TPP". They were interested so I explained it a bit then showed a few articles on TPP. After initially being pissed off about it, the conversation switched back to "the civil war wasn't about slavery" after I said the crap on the news is distracting everyone. All I said after that was "See? It's working perfectly"
Call me a shill if you want. But every time I've talked about anything which we here or the Internet finds important, most people get pissed for a moment then go back to bitching about whatever it is that pisses them off more as soon as possible. I guess it's just human nature, but it's predictable and being exploited. It's a numbers game, fewer people care about the "big" issues compared to emotion based socially dividing "issues".
It's not fun to talk about for most people since it's basically like history or social science classes in high school. Being "free" adults they get to choose what they want to talk and think about and "drama" like gay marriage and confederate flags is going to win out every single time. For the next few days you will be able to derail any conversation by mentioning it.
It's always been game over. We lost before any of us were even born. It's our collective nature that doomed us. Best we can hope for is to be wrong and worst is to say "told you so". Not that anyone will really care then either.
1 alcalde 2015-06-26
And that's when rational people stopped listening to you because you were implicitly positing an completely unbelievable and unworkable conspiracy in which mass murder and Supreme Court decisions were somehow engineered to distract people from an agreement that doesn't exist yet and hence doesn't do anything yet that anyone knows about beyond conjecture.
People's human rights aren't "drama". The Confederate flag is a symptom, not a problem. Maybe silly, pointless, undisclosed trade agreements that will never affect anyone in the real world aren't as important as whether you can visit your spouse in the ICU in a hospital or whether you can go to church without needing to bring a sidearm?
These rants always seem to consider only two possibilities: you agree with me, or you're too biased/blind/dumb/ignorant to agree with me. Maybe, just maybe, you're the one getting worked up over "drama" and ignoring the real, immediate serious problems of discrimination, be it sexuality or race?
2 ForeverDownvoted 2015-06-26
I'd normally agree with you, if it were the basis of the conversation. The news was covering it so I used that as an intro to make people aware of TPP. They never heard of it so the rest of the conversation was about TPP until it switched to confederate talk after they voiced their very real displeasure to its details. Maybe it's just poor timing, but any timing is poor to talk about tech or TPP type topics since so few people have any background on it to draw from, and therefor have no opinion to get emotional with. Hence the point of my rant. Who the hell really wants to spend their free time talking about, or rather, being educated on patent laws, trade agreements, or internet traffic after they spent all week/day working? Almost no one. Everyone has an opinion on gay marriage/race which makes it easy and "fun" to talk about.
Being that you're trying to derail the conversation by switching topics with some emotion-bait, I'll wrap up quick. You're in /r/conspiracy, for trying to downplay TPP or just about /r/conspiracy fodder by using a logical fallacy, I award you no points.
-4 throwawaynameday 2015-06-26
Eh, America doesn't work anymore anyway. It will be way easier to rebel against some corporate oligarchy than against the good old USA. I say we wait.
2 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
No it won't because they will be much more powerful. How will it be easier when they are controlling our methods of communication so that we can't rally together on social media and on forums like this? They put a "You can't screw Israel" clause in it, why wouldn't they put an "it's illegal to rebel against the TPP" clause in it too?
People are saying that they are too powerful now so it's not worth it but that's a lie, an illusion, that they are spreading to cover their asses. The truth is they will only be too powerful if TPP goes through and that's only going to happen if we let it.
They aren't passing these laws without us. We are just as much apart of the decision making process as they are. It's just that they make their vote publicly and you're making your vote right now in silence when you choose whether or not to join us in the fight.
-4 videinfra666 2015-06-26
So what are you proposing?!
4 hippylarvae 2015-06-26
Maybe read his actual fucking post, not just reply to his title you dumbass.
-4 videinfra666 2015-06-26
So basically, spamming about the TPP. Awesome idea. How many people you made aware of this by spamming?!
3 letsgohome45 2015-06-26
Me
1 letsgohome45 2015-06-26
And now my friends
-7 videinfra666 2015-06-26
good job. 7 billions remaining
2 letsgohome45 2015-06-26
On our way
-2 videinfra666 2015-06-26
wish u luck
-6 [deleted] 2015-06-26
[deleted]
4 AlwaysTurning 2015-06-26
Fuck you for leading me to click that
EDIT: I have reported this to the mods twice....this link should be removed...or am I wrong to think this is against the rules?
1 DR1V3R177 2015-06-26
Now I feel like I'm on a list somewhere.
0 flyingburritoman 2015-06-26
You're on a list for commenting on this sub
1 DR1V3R177 2015-06-26
Doubtful.
1 xworfx 2015-06-26
What is it?
1 AlwaysTurning 2015-06-26
Directions to build a pipbomb
1 xworfx 2015-06-26
Aha. Thanks for clearing that up.
2 AlwaysTurning 2015-06-26
Thankyou very much
0 Flytape 2015-06-26
Lol step 1 is pretty fucking stupid if you ask me.
Tell the guy at the hardware store you need a 1 foot piece of pipe with both ends threaded and caps.
There is only one reason someone would want that.
Congratulations on getting the hardware store to call the police on you.
1 AlwaysTurning 2015-06-26
In all honesty I left the page pretty quickly....if it's sarcastic then my apologies.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
No. Please leave this discussion. I do NOT condone violence, that would hinder our mission not help it. Violence solves nothing.
-4 no1113 2015-06-26
No. You're getting slammed for saying things that are generally considered true, BUT SAYING THEM IN AN UNNECESSARILY MELODRAMATIC MANNER.
There's a difference, okay?
Not when you don't present your information in a balanced, critically-thinking manner you can't.
I don't know what "we" are because I won't personally speak for anyone but myself, but I'd say that I personally focus more on facts, and it seems to me that this is precisely why you're getting slammed - because you're not understanding that, again, you're filling the few facts that you point out with SO much unnecessarily melodramatic crap that it makes the ultimate message almost indecipherable and useless.
The minds are made up. You're just not being intelligent about how you say things.
5 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
I'm fine with giving my life up for a better future for our children. But that's not going to happen because if it did, it would just give attention and validity to our movement. You yourself just proved that because all you said was Tiananmen Square moment and everyone knows what you're talking about. If we had that kind of press, TPP would be delayed for decades.
1 alcalde 2015-06-26
If no one knows what it means, entails or does, how can you folks be so incensed about it? That's like hating a movie that hasn't been released or screened to critics yet.
Oh the lack of self-awareness. How can you oppose something you're unaware of exactly?
5 alcalde 2015-06-26
Oh there's a Freudian slip if I ever saw one!!!!
If those two are mutually exclusive in your mind... well.... THINK ABOUT IT. Without facts, your conspiracy theory needs to be rejected, doesn't it?
14 hxcdsal 2015-06-26
seems like an overreaction wouldnt you say?
9 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
Have you read the agreement or are you just a blatant shill? No corporations are not signatories but they do have rights expressed in the agreement. And I said major countries. Not all countries in the world are apart of it and some countries that are not negotiating it (therefore not mentioned in the document explicitly) will be under it's laws. The agreement is with the entire EU so if the UK stays in, they will be held to it's regulations regardless of whether or not they have anything to do with it's passing. Are you aware that the TPP is not a stand alone agreement? It compliments the TISA and TRIPS agreements which have separate terms which are referenced in the TPP so if you have not read the TISA documents, you cannot have a full understanding of the TPP
1 UncriticalEye 2015-06-26
Hey, don't leave me out! I'm slamming you for all the falsehoods you've been posting! And for being too lazy to even learn about the thing you're so worked up about!
2 cayote111 2015-06-26
The use of "all caps" is absolutely justified in this instance is absolutely justified. From what has been leaked so far, albeit only a few of the sections, it is clear to me that this trade agreement has the potential of seriously affecting the citizens of the U.S. In a negative way such as never seen before. What has passed so far is a "fast track" provision that will allow the bill to pass on an up or down vote. That means the Senate will need only 51 votes for passage as opposed the 60 that is normally required according to Senate rules.
Don't you find it more than curious that this is one of the rare cases that the GOP is 100% in support of the President while all but 13 Dems were opposed to fast tracking. As it stands, the TPP is almost guaranteed ratification with very little in put from the citizens of this country. Ratification can only fail if senators are heavily pressured by their constituencies.
2 TheWiredWorld 2015-06-26
Honestly I hope you rot in the hell you believe in selling your self and your country-men out
7 playswithdogs 2015-06-26
But try
1 IchTuDirWeh 2015-06-26
Wanna share some of that money? Honestly I wouldn't have even hired you to do this. You suck ass at it.
3 nonamebeats 2015-06-26
the legitimate protesters will outnumber the provocateurs. As in other recent protests, it will be easy to recognize them by their behavior. Everyone has a high-quality video/still camera on them at all times. Call the provocateurs out, surround them, force them to break character/reveal themselves and take video/photos.
2 welldunnfarms 2015-06-26
Yup, you totally just blew it.. You did make a few good points. Just shush now please. You are making the rest of us look like crazy people . Lol
0 gensyms 2015-06-26
You're getting downvoted but treaties are above the constitution.
2 danintexas 2015-06-26
My thoughts on it. It is too late. The people (I am no exception) won't do shit. We are done.
1 xworfx 2015-06-26
Aha. Thanks for clearing that up.
1 zangent 2015-06-26
Ditto my friend.
And I'm just a high school student. I don't want to rot in Guantanamo yet.
2 piles_of_SSRIs 2015-06-26
Pull back a little next time, it's pretty obvious who you are.
1 Intrepyd 2015-06-26
Do you have a source, because that doesn't make any sense. Generic drugs are identical active ingredients already. This is fear mongering nonsense.
1 Steponallthechickens 2015-06-26
First off, it's not an article so obviously you didn't read it. Second, which horrible things are you talking about specifically...? My summary is exactly that, a summary of the entire document. If you don't give me a particular point, I can't tell you where it is. Also, as I said before and you ignored, you can search the document yourself in your browser.
1 overandundertbwg 2015-06-26
Qui qui ! Will make a pit stop in France
1 Frenchie_21 2015-06-26
Hey guess what you fuck. He worded it wrong but he is not exactly wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transatlantic_Trade_and_Investment_Partnership
This is the Atlantic version of the TPP. This is a trade agreement of the same breadth of the TPP, but with Europe and the United states. This leaves Africa (no one really gives a shit), South America(there is ongoing discussion of one with them) the middle east, Russia, China (trade relations are normalized however,) and small satellite countries out of the equation. Really everybody else is in on it. This is an unprecedented amount of countries being apart of a "free trade" agreement. If this fails horribly, those countries fail horribly, the world fails horribly.
The fact is that major corporations lobby groups are being given an unprecedented amount of control over what is in the agreement. This is basically collusion.
1 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
Everything you buy, whether it comes from a yard sale, or farmer's market, or fucking Oxfam has involvement with a corrupt corporation. Whether it be the the vehicle they use, the clothes they wear, the metal used in the container that holds the organic beeswax they buy. Has cooperation from a corporation. Because no one is Amish anymore. Sorry, but I derive real pleasure from exposing the hypocrisy of sanctimonious, self righteous, and myopic 'revolutionaries' Or perhaps they forget the slave labor that went into constructing their favorite Internet access device.
2 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
I don't have a problem with it. I was drinking. Misread everything. Have a good sunday.
1 Swanksterino 2015-06-26
I don't have a problem with it. I was drinking. Misread everything. Have a good sunday.