Welcome to the rabbit hole.

I'm glad there are others with me at least

Once you realize how deep this hole is, you'd sometimes wish you never found it.

In your search for truth and solutions be VERY aware of distraction and co-Intel pro people. DONT buy into everything you hear and read. There are a lot of "dangles" placed to distract you. And by this I mean that there are a lot of fake controversial stories and news produced by the very same people and think tanks we are fighting. And it can sometimes get fustrating trying to find your way in the dark. This technique is brilliant and you need to be aware and learn how it works. A lot of the truth movement has allready been infiltrated for a number of years.

"In order for disinformation to be effective and make people buy into it, it has to be based on 90% truth and 10% bullshit" - Michael C. Ruppert.

Say, whatever happened to ol' Mike Ruppert?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound?

Down here we all float.

Triple check any articles that you send out to friends and family because a lot of them are elaborate disinformation campaigns made to make you look stupid and crazy. One wrong link and people will disown you. Its good to see how fragile your social standing is and how much identity people have in their ideas but its probably better to go a bit undercover for a while instead of bringing that kind of ostracism upon yourself since you are so young. If you are a curious person then your self-identity will be not nearly as associated with your current best-theories as most people. They will turn on you if you attempt to invalidate their theories and ideas because then you are attacking their identity (since they are attached) and additionally the environment is primed for completely dismissing (and invalidating) people who have one wrong very serious idea. They may even do so when you are correct as well and even if later proven correct they will simply forget about what you said but their negative impression will remain because their attention span and memory are incredibly short. So hang tight until you have the psychological tools and reference points to be your own person.

[edit] Also other people here are conversing about Michael C. Ruppert. I'm from the North Bay and Ruppert was involved and residing in communities in Sebastopol (and others) that are adjacent to my home city. When I found out I was laughing to myself because I know the kind of super eclectic "damaged birds" that reside in that community and I was living in Europe at that time. He did various video interviews stating how well he was doing and then he suddenly one day blew a hole in his head. I recommend studying up on Michael C. Ruppert because he was into heavy shit and he psychologically couldn't handle it. First you need to build up your psychological coping strategy to ensure that you can handle the horrors that you will be exposed to in your research.

Da comrade, it is, how you americans say, fubar, da.

I don't know if promoting a run on the banks is the most prudent course for ending the fed...but I like where your head's at. It would be preferable to find a way to cut ties with the federal reserve without plunging the entire economy into chaos.

I do know the fed owns the banks it's like an every revolving cycle of loaning money and the richest people are the ones borrowing the most money right?

That's right. I sometimes liken the FED to the counter at the arcade that lets you trade your tickets in for prizes. The tickets themselves have no real value beyond what the arcade allows them to be worth in prizes.

The Federal Reserve is a scam because there is no need to have a private agency, separate from the government, wedged between our work and its value. It's designed to make the owners of the FED powerful and wealthy and it works very well in that regard.

If we got rid of the Fed, who would control the currency ? Do you think it should be done by Congress, or the President, or what ?

And Fed does more than just control the currency. Also provides services to banks, analyzes economy for govt.

The Treasury dept. maybe?

So, any reason to think Treasury would make you happier than the Fed does ?

Not really, I was just throwing shit against the wall.

Yeah, that's the problem I have with most "eliminate the Fed" people. They never propose what would replace it, and say why that would be better.

Yeah, I wish I could come up with something better, but tbh this is not anywhere near my field of expertise. The point of my comment was to generate discussion like this.

So, I have a question. Why would the Treasury be a bad idea?

I assume one reason for creating the Fed as a separate agency was to try to insulate it from political pressure. Having the function in Treasury doesn't do that.

Without plunging the economy into chaos? The economy is in total chaos. Expect a huge collapse soon.

Nah, the country will keep going on pretty much as usual.

All through history, there have been people saying "jeez, it's the WORST it's EVER been, right now ! We can't go on like this ! It's all going to end !" And somehow, it pretty much never does. We adapt, survive, soldier on.

Sure, there are lots of things wrong with USA. As such a wealthy and skilled country, we should be doing a LOT better on various fronts: education, healthcare, gun-control, justice, race, equality, infrastructure, etc.

But don't forget the huge strengths we have. Stable, strong institutions. World-dominant or world-class industries: entertainment, software, medicine, universities, biotech, energy, finance, aerospace. Natural resources. Skilled people. Many people all over the world want to immigrate to USA. Investors consider USA and US govt debt to be safest places to invest.

Even right now, there are a lot of awakened people ready to revolt. The reason it hasnt happened yet is because the revolutionaries are few and unorganized. Soon there will be a tipping point, i think the economy will collapse; and after people are thrown out of their comfortable lives, they will start asking the real questions, and the rest of the population will know about the truth. The truth about how the bankers are running the show, not the governments. A mass awakening is about to happen.

I dont know what your spiritual beliefs are, but all spiritual religions have prophesized that we are in the ending stages of the dark ages. We are coming out of it now, and there WILL be a mass awakening, where people learn the truth of the world. Yes, all spiritual religions prophesize this, even the acient ones. Up to this point in time, you were made to go to college, work 9-5, buy a house, start a family. That is all about to change in the next couple of years.

Dont believe me? Just look at the way the governments are preparing. Look how the billionaires are preparing. Keep your eyes open and spread the information, that is how we defeat them!

Revolution is not a solution.

The aftermath of a successful violent revolt would be hideous. All sorts of groups would take the opportunity to carve out enclaves, steal stuff, kill opponents or perceived enemies. The country would fragment into pieces by religion, race, wealth, region, etc.

No one would agree on what the new government or political structure should be. Everyone would take the opportunity to try to write their favorite position into the Constitution or laws: anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-GMO, anti-immigrant, anti-fossil-fuel, pro-fossil-fuel, anti-gun, pro-gun, etc.

The economy would tank, the dollar would tank, the world economy would tank. The killing would go on for a long, long time. USA is the most heavily-armed country in the world, civilian, police and military.

An ideological revolution is happening. A peaceful one. Itll be triggered by the economic collapse. After that, people will work together to survive and share information. This is when the mass awakening will happen, when people start asking the tough questions. Illuminati will become common sense instead of conspiracy.

How will we survive together aftwards? The illuminati/globalists have already figured out free energy, but they are withholding that information so they continue to make biillions from oil. There are people who came out from the government and said that they have figured out free energy, anti-gravity, and more advanced technology.

So instead of everyone fighting to take over after/during the revolution, i believe we will become highly knowledgeable and we will no longer need a government. We will realize the absurdity of trying to control your neighbour, as if you know better than him.

Again, this is an ideological revolution, not like any other. The only way we can win is by the spreading of information; by this back and forth commenting where i can learn from you and you can learn from me. It will take a long time to reach the state of no government, but we will make it there. There will definitely be hardships along the way, but we have been working together and we will continue to do so.

We've gone through some pretty big economic crashes recently, in 2002 and 2008, and somehow things didn't change much. I wish I had some way to bet big against you on "economic collapse" coming any time soon.

"we will no longer need a government" is contrary to every bit of history, every bit of human nature. Not going to happen.

So the "Illuminati" have "free energy", and it's a big secret, but somehow YOU know all about it ? Sounds delusional.

The first thing you need to understand is that US economy is based on debt, it was taken off the gold standard a long time ago. Now if you know anything about economics, you know a debt based economy must crash sooner or later. It can bring massive growth in a short time, but the house of cards WILL come crashing down.

The US economy has relied on things like quantitative easing to get past the previous crashes. If your familiar with how the economy works, you would understand that simply "printing more money" will give a temporary boost to the economy while delaying the crash for a later date.

Now, it is very important to understand that the longer you avoid the crash by quantitave easing, the worse the crash will be. We have been in a depression since 2008, and we have been desperately trying to prop up the economy ever since. We are in the end times.

If you disagree with the fact that we are currently in a depression, i can show you our economic statistics of today and compare them to the statistics during the depression of the 30s. It is WORSE today in multiple ways compared to the stock market crash of 1929. The government lies about the current unemployment; they claim 8% when it closer to 25%.

I tell you, the only reason the US economy made it this far is because of the oil deal that Henry Kissinger was able to secure with the Saudi's in the 70s, when Nixon took the economy off the gold standard. Because of the petrodollar scheme (all oil is traded in US dollars), the US has been able to stay on top of the world economy. As soon as the US economy collapses, the world economy would crash, since the US is central to the world economy.

We are in the end times, the crash is near. We are now just waiting for an event to trigger the collapse. As soon as it happens, the world will need a new reserve currency.

I sound delusional? Look up the Disclosure Project. It is a group of over 500 people from the US Government, military, and intelligence agencies. These people have sworn on their lives, and they are willing to testify in a congressional hearing about the truth of UFOs and ET technology. All 500 of these people have first hand experience with ETs or ET technology. Can you say these 500+ people are delusional?

Look it up, its real. And they're risking their lives to disclose confidential information, for YOU.

The people from the disclosure project have testified that the government shot down UFOs to reverse engineer them and find out how they work. They testify that the US government figured out renewable energy and anti gravity as well.

I know i sound crazy. Its funny, because this is actually some of the easy to believe stuff. i usually dont share the really crazy stuff to people until i know they are already awakened to what is truly happening.

Edit: lastly, if you are going to continue to be condescending, i will not issue any more replies. Stay skeptical and good luck

I don't think a big national debt means a collapse must inevitably come. Uncontrolled, infinite growth in the debt might mean that. But even that is not clear to me. If everyone's debts to each other all are growing together, it becomes just numbers in computers. And it's in no one's interest to call in all of someone else's debt. If China or someone calls in all of USA's debt, US dollar and world economy collapse, China's economy collapses, everyone collapses, all currencies collapse, China's dollar assets are worthless, etc.

Yes, I would say you are delusional and those Disclosure Project people are delusional. Do they have a single, solid, physical piece of evidence of ET's or ET technology ? Not just "witnessing". A piece of metal, or a piece of ET flesh, or a power generator, or something ?

I will be dismissive if you keep making ET claims without evidence. Claims are cheap. This subreddit is full of them.

Wow I really cannot believe this. Look, I tried explaining the economy to you and I am not going to expand any further because you are simply going to go against what I say. The fact of the matter the US economy IS collapsing as we speak. Believe it or not.

You are so close minded that you can't even accept the disclosure project. Watch their lectures on YouTube and then tell me they are delusional. These people all have first hand experience with ETs and ET technology. If you are going to say I have to present more proof, you are a fucking moron because all these people do is release proof for you to see. Stop asking me to spoon feed you all the details and do your own fuckin research

Yeah, hard to believe that you could "explain the economy" to someone and they might not agree with you ! Just amazing !

I don't think it's collapsing. We've had many cycles of boom and bust over the last two centuries. We've had robber barons, civil war, world war, Great Depression, energy crises. We've survived them all.

I'm not going to watch the Disclosure Project stuff UNLESS you first tell me what hard, solid, physical evidence they have. If it's just people saying they really, REALLY believe this stuff, I'm not going to waste my time.

Are you even listening to what im saying? U said we got thru all these depressions and conflicts, and i am not saying the next collapse is going to be any different. We will get through this too.

And the disclosure project isnt people who just "really really believe this stuff". They are people who worked for the government, miilitary, and intelligence agencies who have had FIRST HAND experience with ETs and ET technology.

Are you even listening to me? These people have DIRECT experiences with this shit. They dont just take in anybody who "really really believes". There are over 500 ppl with first hand experience, all who worked for or currently work for US government. The amount of evidence they bring forth is undeniable.

Avoid it and deny it all you want, it is you who stays ignorant. It is you who falls for the trap that the globalists set up for you. Id love to stay and argue with you, but the fact of the matter is that you are NOT a skeptic. You have already convinced yourself you know whatsup. There is no reason for me to continue talking to you. it is pointless if you like having a closed mind.

Good luck to u my friend, and goodbye

We've never had a "collapse"; we've had crashes and depressions and recessions. And I thought you exactly were predicting a collapse that would be "different" and we wouldn't "get through". You said "We are in the end times, the crash is near. We are now just waiting for an event to trigger the collapse."

Do any of the Disclosure Project people have any simple, solid, hard evidence ? If "The amount of evidence they bring forth is undeniable", please name a piece of such evidence. Do they have some ET metal, or some ET flesh, or an ET power generator ? That would be "evidence".

Hey, don't be so down on yourself.

Every great idea starts with one that sounds a little crazy.

You're on the right track.

I feel the only way to change the current state of affairs is if people realize that all the money in the banks are limited and most of it is IOUs, how do we go about doing this?

I don't think that's the solution. The people who are behind all this push to control everything get off on waging their covert warfare. Even if people would realize the banking problem, they still don't understand, comprehend, or believe how evil these degenerates are. Further, when threatened with something like a terrorist attack, they do the instinctual thing. They look to "authority" to do something.

Until the vast majority of people start working to improve themselves by continually searching for truth and spotting the lies, deceptions, and tricks, there's really not much hope. The only hope I see is that war, famine, and governments will continually cull the weak minded and the smart ones will find a way to hide, increasing the general intelligence of the population from generation to generation.

You're still young, but if you have savings keeping a good chunk of it in cash (in your home, well hidden) would be wise. Banks seem like safe places until they collapse, and this normally happens overnight. Savers in Icelandic banks and Cyprus banks have seen their money disappear in recent years, and back in the 1920s and 30s in the US, bank runs and bank closures were commonplace.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10027101/There-will-be-more-wealth-confiscation-without-a-doubt-Saxo-Banks-Lars-Christensen.html

Eventually cash may start to hyperinflate in value too, so make sure you have exchanged it for durable goods before then. Someone with a lot of currency wealth would be wise to buy gold with it while they still can. Currencies don't survive economic collapses - gold thrives on them. But be discreet - governments confiscate gold too sometimes, even in the US.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/investing/10027101/There-will-be-more-wealth-confiscation-without-a-doubt-Saxo-Banks-Lars-Christensen.html

Why would crashing things be any kind of solution ? Rich people and corporations and military and NSA would have even MORE power if that happened. Govt would be in disarray, regulation of Wall Street would break down, we'd get more laws similar to the Patriot Act. Who do you think would get to write the new laws, run the new institutions ? Those with the most money.

So, how would crashing things solve this ?

How are people stupid enough to get a loan (on anything)?

How are people stupid enough to get a loan (on anything)?

They are trained to put themselves into debt by the culture and the media. The television and magazines tell them they must buy, buy, buy, while they are still young enough to enjoy all the shiny devices they are told they should want to acquire. They can't afford it, of course, so there are institutions set up to put them into perpetual debt to the banks, and those who run them.

Once a person is a debt slave, he is easy to control. He must hold a job to pay his debts, or he will lose his credit, and the ability to buy things he cannot afford. He cannot change his living place because he is bound there by his job. He must keep working so that his greedy wife and children can acquire all the clothing and jewelry and shiny devices they have been trained to think they want.

Even if the debt slave realizes he has made a mistake by getting into debt, there is nothing he can do about it without destroying the entire arrangement upon which his family is based. He is a slave for life.

so glad I grew up away from society (the woods) and wasn't exposed to this bullshit

It makes sense in many cases:

• If currency is inflating, you can pay the loan back in cheaper money later.

• If govt gives you tax breaks (such as mortgage interest deduction), that makes a loan more attractive.

• If you REALLY think things are about to collapse, take the money today and maybe you'll never have to pay it back.

• If you see an opportunity to buy something productive for you (a car, a house, a business), but don't have the capital required, a loan may make sense.

An ideological revolution is happening. A peaceful one. Itll be triggered by the economic collapse. After that, people will work together to survive and share information. This is when the mass awakening will happen, when people start asking the tough questions. Illuminati will become common sense instead of conspiracy.

How will we survive together aftwards? The illuminati/globalists have already figured out free energy, but they are withholding that information so they continue to make biillions from oil. There are people who came out from the government and said that they have figured out free energy, anti-gravity, and more advanced technology.

So instead of everyone fighting to take over after/during the revolution, i believe we will become highly knowledgeable and we will no longer need a government. We will realize the absurdity of trying to control your neighbour, as if you know better than him.

Again, this is an ideological revolution, not like any other. The only way we can win is by the spreading of information; by this back and forth commenting where i can learn from you and you can learn from me. It will take a long time to reach the state of no government, but we will make it there. There will definitely be hardships along the way, but we have been working together and we will continue to do so.