Its understandable because you're new here... but literally this same exact post is made once a month or so. Its reddit, most of what you are seeing is shills shilling shills. Don't feed the trolls, or get stuck in their loop. Downvote or report and move on, its really all we can do.

This thread was started by a shill, but now his post has backfired and he's deleted himself.

The shill game doesn't work when they are constantly having their cover blown, us calling them out is making their work ineffective, apart from the downvoting censorship side, which we can't do much about.

What a fucking coward. Thinks he can shill Zionist bullshit here, gets called out, pusses out tail between the legs, then deletes his own post.

Instead, try to view them as just opposition. And the best way to address opposition is with the truth. That means you might need to reinforce your theory with facts.
That's exactly what a shill would say. /s

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I look forward to trying their vegan option, coffee.

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Nice try burger king

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It was obviously a joke

I've been called a shill a few times just for trying to bring logic to a few discussions. If your argument is a good one, it should be able to withstand questioning... people need to be less defensive.

ive been called a shill for /r/limitedhangouts and helping people see that snowden might not be who NBC or NYT told them he is

now, over 1000 ppl have subbed

They really went after you too, I recall it.

Go on...

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It's totally okay to assert a shill is at play, but the thing is that simply saying 'You're a shill' is not an argument.

The best defense against shills is to simply address their arguments factually, with evidence. Same as the best argument against baseless conspiracy theory. Don't just write it off as 'thats crazy' or 'thats paid for': Address the argument. If the argument is paid for, then it ought to be able to be argued against easily enough. Unless it stands on its own. Then who cares if its paid for or not?

The point is that even focusing on the idea that someone you're talking to might be being paid to speak differently is a waste of time. Assume they all are or none are, the 'best argument' should still win.

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And I do appreciate the post: I've been called a shill on average about once a day when I post on this account. My history is quite the colorful one on this subreddit.

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The one thing I've come to realize about the typical 'conspiracy theorist' mind (I'm talking about the people who have a tendency to believe CTs are the norm, not necessarily any specific CT) is that they're religiously so. For a lot of people here, this is their faith. When you're mixing your faith with the idea and concept of 'scientific' and 'evidence', it's gonna be a bad time. And they might not even realize it. But they're certainly treating the conspiracy realm as their religion.

It's the same thing with Christianity, Judaism, and Islam: The adherents are taught that they will be persecuted, that they will be attacked, that they will have to remain 'steadfast' against the infidels and heathens. These religions teach their adherents that their knowledge is somehow special and hidden from the 'average' person. It's the same with conspiracy theorists. They're taught that the government is behind every negative circumstance. They're taught that they will be called kooks, that they will be attacked by government shills, that they will be 'censored'. So it's easy to see how they rationalize "please, provide evidence for such a wild assertion" as "I'm being censored".

It's the same with the conspiracy theorist's rationalization. They believe they're privy to knowledge and secrets that the average person is not, and they offer it to anyone: "If only you'd open your eyes to it, the information is all out there". See how that works? "The information is out there.. ..you just have to go find it yourself" -- "Jesus is everywhere, you just have to learn how to see him for yourself". Same thing. The evangelist isn't expected to detail all the dogma and beliefs and stories of Christ, they're expected to get the person interested in finding out those stories themselves. It's not about getting the person to be saved, it's about getting them to the Church.

Just like the Conspiracy Theorist who won't evidence their wild assertions, but who will reassure you "they've read it numerous times, just google it". It ought to be easy enough to evidence these things, you'd think, but remember this is a hattrick of evangelism.

In any case. I could rant on the topic for hours. I'd be glad to debate anything I've said if anyone cares to comment.

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Of course, and certainly not all religious people are completely driven by blind, unwavering faith. I'm speaking with regards to the stereotype, not the average Christian. The average Christian, like the average Conspiracy Theorist, is willing to listen to reasonable evidence and can separate their own faith from actual reality. But then it's not the average Christian who makes Christianity look bad, it's the fringe. The same again is true for Conspiracy Theory: On average, there's a lot of people who believe in a lot of varying theories. But on average those people aren't willing to argue against evidence and facts to defend their beliefs: They'll adjust their beliefs if you present new facts. These aren't the CTs on this sub who are calling everyone they disagree with a shill. That is a small, minority group. A vocal one, and one that sticks out like a sore thumb, but it is a minority here.

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it's really tough to come here and participate without the abuse. Not a lot of encouragement to stay to be honest.

If you honestly admit that there are government-entities in this subreddit attempting to manipulate discussion, then this really can't be seen as 'unintentional'. Realistically, it's not all a side-effect of these real shills, but rather a combination of the shills and the fact that a bunch of 16 year olds think they know how jet fuel works. Jokes aside, I'm serious: There's a lot of children here who simply don't get it. They pretend they get it, and they'll argue that they do if you tell them they don't. But they're children: These kids can't vote, they have no idea what its like to pay rent or be in debt, they're still in high school. And I'd put money on it that it's this group that is the most adamant about baseless assertion of fact, or the most vehement in the denial of real evidence in front of their eyes. Hell, this is also the most religious age-group on earth. I'm coming full-circle here.

I was hoping to learn some new theories here and what I am mostly finding is some very weak theories with bad sources and lots of name-calling.

As someone who's been a regular here for at least a year... yeah you hit the nail on the head.

Check out /r/actualconspiracies for the... actual conspiracies.

Check out /r/conspiracy for entertaining stories based in conspiracy and a general circlejerk of the counter-counter-counter-culture.

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Well not to step on my own foot here, but have you heard the Eglin Airforce issue?

Reddit announced a while back that the city 'Most addicted to reddit' was Eglin Air Force Base, FL. "Over 100k visits in total [from that city alone]". Oak Brook, IL too, is a bit odd: It's a tiny town (less than 10k as of 2010). But over 100k visits in total? That's not organic. So ask yourself why? The answer is right in the Wiki page on the city:

Oak Brook is also the home of many corporate offices

.. Not just small corporations either. It's the world-headquarters for McDonalds, among other big names.

Depending on how far down the rabbit hole you care to dig, you can begin to connect some dots. While I don't think this sub particularly is one that's focused on, I know that reddit is focused on at large. And I know that the US Military pays people towards the goals of manipulating online public discourse.

I'd simply ask, why do you think it's 'far from normal'?

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There's also another kind of "shill" at pay here in this sub specifically, more aptly called an agent provocateur (a troll).

These are the people coming in and pretending to be CTs, but they push outrageous theories like flat earth. It's an effort to discredit all CTs.

And these people come from all walks: many are just trolls, out trolling. But some are actually trying to manipulate the outlook on CTs by the general public.

Further, some have asserted these types of conspiracy are orchestrated by government to discredit more legitimate theory. Every the term conspiracy theory is itself a designed one, meant to subvert the ideas being discussed. For instance I've seen some claim Godlike Productions, a popular conspiracy outlet, is a government-funded con, meant to make the whole thing look bad. This wouldn't be a new thing either: precedent exists. Not to say I subscribe to it, but it would make at least a modicum of sense, wouldn't it?

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Couple points: First, you're talking about Poe's Law. Not sure if you're familiar with it, but if not, you're one of the lucky 10,000 today.

That being said, it's not always the case, and I think it's a mistake to compare those personas you encounter online with those you encounter in the 'real world'.

People wear masks. We all do. If you don't, you're looked at as the crazy one. And you are. The fact is that I have certain topics I will discuss with only friends, some with only family, some with only employers, some with only co-workers. For each of these groups, I wear a different mask. I 'put up a front'. It's not 'lying', so much as simply not offering everything I think. All "normal" people do this. It's commonly called 'manners' but it's just 'getting by'.

That's the real world.

The online world is wholly different. I am anonymous here, effectively. I can bring up any idea I care to for discussion, and I will face exactly zero repercussions in my real world life for having done so. This is the place to bring up ideas that might be otherwise viewed unfavorably. That includes unscientific 'crazy' ideas, racist ideas, or taboo ideas. You will see thousands of people flock to defend terrible atrocities against their fellow man, simply because on the internet, there's no societal yardstick to measure up to. Reddit's 'karma' is an attempt to bring that yardstick back, by giving others a reference of the user, but it's a weak one. This account I'm on has negative karma, for instance. But that's because I use it to engage controversial ideas and their supporters. It was inevitable, and only recently has it left the -100 rut. But nearly every comment in my history is just as elaborated and easy to understand as those I've made here.

So there's two different 'worlds' a single person might navigate through, and back and forth between. It's that: That going back and forth that makes it all the more acceptable to the self to be a troll, or a bully, or a racist, or whatever: "I can't do this in the real world, therefor the internet can be my outlet". That's the third part of the Poe's Law equation, in my eyes.

Look at the popularity of Grand Theft Auto, for instance. I can honestly say I'd never once thought I had an 'urge' towards going on a shooting rampage ending with a high-speed chase across a city... prior to playing the game. Then I did it. And I did it again. And again. The game didn't make me violent, not at all, but it made me realize I have some violent tendencies (as is natural for any human) and it gave me an outlet for those. The game, and those like it, actually made me better at self-control. So too does the internet. We're just not seeing the other side of that: The side where the trolls are doing better in school than they once were. Doing better in relationships than they once were. Doing better at work than they once were. If I based my perception of a person off watching their actions in GTA, I'd think they were awful too. It's the same as thinking that trolls are only trolls. They're not. They're humans acting out predictable human responses to the world around them.

But this of course doesn't mean that there aren't a few crazies out there. There are violent, homicidal maniacs. And there are people who are just total shit-heads in all aspects of their life. Thing is that these people tend to be obvious to spot online, as far as trolls go.

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I agree that's abusive on or off the internet, but two points to make:

First, it's not not often that SomeGuy2 says something more like "You're retarded", which is itself, abusive, however correct it might be applied to the idea instead of the person.

Second, remember that the whole trick of GTA is reliant on me thinking "none of these people are real, there's no harm or foul then". The same rationality applies to the internet. Reddit's admins have referred to this by saying 'remember the human'. It is all too easy for us, anyone, to forget that there's a real person behind the username in all these online interactions.

Speaking of online interactions, this has been a good one. Thanks for that.

God Bless ya, OP. You sound like a Reasonable, decent human being. I couldn't agree more with some of the things you have said. That's why I rarely post in here. They don't call me a shill in the golf subreddits😁

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Keep reading, as I do. SOME interesting stuff there. Along with the Batshit Crazy.....

This post is a mess of insults, assumptions, ignorance, and exaggerations. Truth seekers or "conspiracy theorists" hold views that are not mainstream and discuss alternative explanations to events. That's it . They are made up of all kinds of people from every walk of of life. It isn't a cult like religion with an official stance. They aren't taught that they will be censored, they are often censored, because they discuss events outside the official explanations. They are not taught that they are persecuted, they are persecuted and insulted because people like you hold these ridiculous ideas of who they think conspiracy theorists are which they are taught mostly from mainstream media. Truth seekers have faith in truth, it's a commitment to an ideal, not a religion. I would say having faith in authority to tell you the truth is closer to a religion. It's no wonder you can't even consider a theory when you refuse look at any evidence because you equate any presented to you by a person who you tag with the conspiracy theorists label with the faith in jesus.

I am just shocked – shocked – that someone would disagree with me on these assertions, even though I distinctly refer to these people as a minority and not at all representative of all the CTs here.

Just shocked, I tell you.

Also, this:

it's a commitment to an ideal, not a religion

...is incredibly ironic. Thanks for that laugh.

I'm sorry, but conspiracy theorists don't have a monopoly on the concept of truth. In this world, no one does. At its simplest definitions, all religion is is 'a commitment to an ideal'. And they too, call that ideal 'truth'. Just like you are here.

In fact, just like you're saying: Christians are persecuted. They're taught they will be, then they are. This reinforces their belief that the books which claimed they would be persecuted are in fact accurate: Obviously, the book said I'd be persecuted, then I was: The book knows what's up.

It's the same in Islam. Same as Judaism. Same as Conspiracy Theorists. It's just with CTs, it's not 'the book', it's 'the documentary' or 'the subreddit' or 'the forum'.

When I say they're all 'taught', I mean they've been primed towards a knee-jerk reaction against any altering view. In this sense, it's really about indoctrination, not 'teaching'. The indoctrination happens to conspiracy theorists by the very fear-mongers who push conspiracy theory every single day: Whether it be the Alex Jones-brand of fear mongery (that which exists to sell things and profit) or the Kevin MacDonald-brand, which exists to subvert the concept of conspiracy theory towards more insidious goals such as white-power and anti-semitism, or the Bill Coopers, who exist because they've got a Jesus complex and think the world needs saving and only they can possibly help all us weak, normies.

These guys teach their viewers to distribute, to evangelize, and to accept exactly zero answers from 'the authority', because 'the authority' is always 'in on it' against you. Fire up a Prison Planet DVD: What's the first thing you see? "Copy and distribute this DVD to all your friends and family". That's the 'lesson': "Evangelize and don't take alternate views as an answer".

And you are taught it. The fact that you'll argue that you weren't just points to the efficacy of the lesson. Edit: This is also to say too that I was taught the same thing. I just didn't take to the lesson as well as others.

But thanks all the same for commenting.

I'm agnostic also a field geologist by trade I do a mountain of other things as well, conspiracy theorist? my friends think I am. I found your explanation of me, suits my tastes and habits fine. I'm not in the least bit paranoid, even after a friend and I who normally doesn't get into CTs had our messaging service at the same exact time blank out only to reappear minutes later with certain info that took hours to find and catalog for a blog post on the subject, patriot acted. It scared the bejesus out of him and he wouldn't message me for a month, once he realized he didn't have anything to worry about he kinda started up again but we text message now with encryption. It sold him on his job that he does, setting up video conference calls for hollywood producers selling complete privacy. He told me they are protecting themselves from the government as well because it would give anyone the inside scoop on which company is gonna make money and which aren't allowing them to be overly confident with their money in the market. This is what more than anything else they are spying on, its a freaking racket. They are counting on this insider trading doesn't get discovered or becomes a focus. Funny I don't ever remember Snowden mentioning this at all. Its comical to me how people are so surprised they have had the wrong idea about something their entire life, will just fight like hell to keep it that way in their head. Why don't you just ask instead of assume. No one will lie to you if you come at them honestly.

because people like you hold these ridiculous ideas of who they think conspiracy theorists are which they are taught mostly from mainstream media

You argue that CT's are not taught anything...but then in the very same breath say that those who are not CT's are taught by the MSM?

Could it just be that we've encountered crazy CT's, so we know that there are some out there?

A real shill would never draw attention to themselves by trolling or being confrontational.

A real shill would be the one trying to draw people out by provoking them into saying something they might regret later.

For example, I posted a link in another sub. It was a story about how the Smithsonian may have covered up evidence that doesn't fit in with established history or the theory of evolution.

Some guy posted some kind of rage comment about the Smithsonian and it seemed like he wanted me to go on a rant about them as well. I passed. Then a few weeks later I found out that the Smithsonian is actually a part of the US government... (agency or something like that?)

So since then I've been wondering if someone was deliberately trying to lure me into saying something stupid so they could make their quota or something.

tldr; when you're online, never say/write something that you wouldn't say out loud in front of a room full of regular people.

Does logic trump evidence?

Edit: I'm asking a serious question so ease up on the downvotes

I think those are two subjective things, so it's hard to say if one can trump the other.

Some people say they have "evidence" of chemtrails, and will base their logic on that evidence. To them, their logic is sound. To others, the logic is illogical because the evidence is bad.

The problem is that "professional commenors" know the weak points in their arguments but still work to tip the discourse in their favor. Those of us who desire to figure out the truth or expose the fraud have to work extra hard when you have "professional commentor", becuse they will use sophistry to obscure, sidetrack or outright lie about the issue the are trying to promote or protect.

This is why people should be angry (when the commentors) come across with lots of detail, fail to acknowledge the weak points of a topic or position, and continually show bias and sophistry. They inject a false and deceitful narrative that those trying to find the truth or expose the truth have to unwind. These people are evil.

As far as what can be done, when someone comes across as not acknowledging the weak points of an argument and also comes up with detailed information regarding a topic, I simply ask if they work for any groups that benefit from their topic, and offer my background. "How come you have so much detailed information?"

also comes up with detailed information regarding a topic

Are you saying that people who know what they are talking about are shills?

So, do you really think that I think that? Did I say that or are you trying to twist what I'm saying?

Yes he did exactly what you described, it was kinda funny if he was kidding but if he did it without knowing, well that's terrible and depressing. I expected better from a monsato henchman. I thought they were some of the best out there. ;(

Don't think this guy's a shill, but rather just trolling. I should really be just downvoting and moving on.

I tittiesprinkle my comments with humor. This was a failed attempt

Perhaps I take things a bit to seriously.

Youre fine there is no way to know through text. You are no mind reader. Unless you are and you are just fucking with me.

He's obviously a shill.

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I don't think shills will do much good in /r/conspiracy to advance their issues. This sub has plenty of sharpened minds that make it a "lost cause" to someone trying to "convert" us.

However, in the general news and politic subs, it it quite a different issue, and the repercussions are real and tangible. So, it makes real sense to employ "reputation managers" to create the narrative desired.

They want us to feel like we are on the losing side, so that we lose our will.

No. They don't care about you. Not even a little bit. For those in any position of power you are not even an annoyance. An annoyance is acknowledged. You are not.

This is the problem here. People think discussing these ideas online actually matter. If you want to make change engage in the political process, join or start a party. Join the scientific community, publish a peer reviewed paper to support your claims. Engage in robust political debate. Then, maybe, those people you are crusading against will pay you the attention you desire.

Who says I want attention? Who says it has anything to do with just me? It has to do with us and we are a group of people that care about the truth and about other people and that is important! We do matter and the people that we care about matter, and you suck for thinking that we don't, especially when deep inside you probably know that we do.

Do you even see what most of the conspiracy threads at the top right now and what they are often about?? They are about Justice, Truth, and Love.

Sandra Bland, naturopathic doctors, cancer, GMO's, fracking, phamaceuticals, etc.

For what reason is there to fight for these things! Do you think this is fun for any of us?? Don't you think we would rather spend our energy on other things?? People are getting hurt, suffering, and dying. That's why we discuss these things.

We aren't getting paid to care. We aren't getting paid to discuss these things. We don't need attention. We just hope that people will listen and be more aware, so that the world can be a better, safer, and healthier place.

You obviously have no idea how much money is thrown at narrative steering by people like these guys https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/
37 billion pageviews in a year is a lot of people to control the opinions of.

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I think they actually are a disservice to their cause, coming in here, because they are matching up against some of the more formidable opponents on that issue at hand. Meaning we know the stuff you have to research to find, the general public doesn't really even want to know some of this stuff. Some of them go out of their way to not even accept it.

they are matching up against some of the more formidable opponents on that issue at hand. Meaning we know the stuff you have to research to find

top kek

90% of the people in this sub don't know jack shit about what they are talking about and wouldn't recognize a credible source if it was dancing naked in front of them.

See if you can find a credible source here. You can't, because credible sources won't bite the hand that feeds them or allows them to eat. Would you go dancing naked in front of the queen? This pretty much says you have no clue what you are talking about, or have you heard this on your tv? I mean surely they would have been brought to justice right I mean there is no statute of limitations on murder. You would think since they have Eye witnesses and the fact that they took several kids that never returned well that is crazy huh? So yeah one credible source will do just one man come on I have faith in your amazing confidence that you are 100% correct on this theory of yours. PROVE IT!

Don't you ever feel bad about what you're doing?

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I just dabble in what I immediately find plausible, once I see a blaring crack in the conspiracy narrative I jump off that train long before its final stop at crazy town. Some are so ridiculous though they have to be put out there just to reinforce the jug heads thinking, "heck even I know thats bullshit, they crazy" It not only reinforces their belief that they are smarter than conspiracy minded people but allows their insecurities a little break from the action. So maybe I'm not seeing the dullards in action because I don't go looking for people who are wrong or looney. I leave the endless search for dumbasses for those over at top minds, which begs the question why do they feel they need to search for people to make fun of, that is most certainly born out of a massive insecurity of something, I don't really care what, but something. I can usually find a reason to laugh at anyone, its not that hard to find, when a person must read every comment of this sub to run back and taddle tale or submit a slander lol, that to me is fucking crazy. I wouldn't do that to myself out of simple self preservation. If you read crazy enough you begin to write crazy, possibly think crazy. Nope

You're overestimating your importance. Why would anyone spend money on shills and then send them here of all places. No corporation or government cares about the fringe, they want to influence the mainstream. You're more likely to find a shill in adiveanimals than here.

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Sending shills to Reddit at all doesn't seem particularly productive. They only subreddits that have any actually discussion are the science and history ones. And bullshit gets pointed out pretty quick in those. The rest of Reddit is people screaming their opinions at each other or making dick jokes. How the hell is a shill going to influence that?

We're not so stupid to believe this, we have already seen official mainstream news and documents showing that shills are swarming all over mainstream media. Reddit has also admitted that most are from US military bases, most likely where you are based

Yep, that big American army base in New Zealand. Hate to break it to you but we are just a nation of skeptical, cynical assholes. Not shills.

To say that you've got to be a shill yourself

I've never understood what all the fuss was about. Agree with someone. Disagree with someone. Or agree to disagree. That's what adults do.

Resorting to name-calling is childish. Resorting to name-calling to avoid a debate is infantile.

It has to do with a basic breakdown of honest non-defensive communication. When someone (or a group of "professional commentors") steps into a situation with the intent of deceiving people by using bias, lies and sophistry, the results have real life consequences. That's why people get heated and angry. It sows the seeds of distrust and hidden hate.

Excellent username in this context, well played.

But you try to perpetuate the myth with that user name, its a joke to you but to others it says hiding in plain site. It makes what you are saying seem like gratuitous hypocrisy, bordering on some sort of psychosis. My mother had me checked, how about yours?

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Why not I was being serious, and joking, Sheldon does the same. I did not insinuate anything about a mother doing anything but her mother duties. You will have to point me to that rule because don't mention in passing or say the word mother must be an addendum to a rule that is not up yet or are you trying to abridge my speech? That doesn't go over well here at all.

So you presume to tell us what we can and cannot post, do you shill?

I don't think you are right at all.

You can look at a user's post history to see whether or not they are a shill. If they constantly speak about the same topic, from a particular, stubborn side, at all hours of the day for example.

Futhermore, your degrading comment about this sub. There is plenty of good information here (just like in the mainstream news). It's still your job to have reading comprehension and sort through what is crap and what isn't. Just because you don't believe something on the front page doesn't mean it's inaccurate, expand your conciousness. Read the comments. Stop DOWNVOTING facts people. How many times I've linked to documented fact and people downvote without a single response is astounding. They can't refute the points, they just hit the down button because their feelings are hurt. Honestly, I feel it should be removed entirely.

my point exactly. comment downvoted, no responses.

That isn't necessarily true; the competent ones make a certain number of matrix posts to appear as regular users. They are the ones who give the mods here a devil of a time, and make the some of the users trigger happy.

I agree it's not a perfect science but often people are arguing with idiots with nothing to contribute who say they same garbage over and over

Some of them even think downvoting opinions like yours won't be seen for exactly what it is by the regulars :\

a shill is a paid agent that have the job to disrupt the conversation, create false opinion, abuse genuine users using various tactics. all this so that the real information is buried and hidden as much as possible.

once you understand this all that you've written op, means nothing as you are talking about people that are here to run a psychological war against you.

so. good luck.

if we come here with the notion that anyone who disagrees with us is automatically a shill.

You're right. I do this myself. But the thing is, as you concede yourself, there are genuinely large numbers of shills on the internet being offered rewards to spread propaganda and disinformation. I have had highly personal information posted online by Zionist Israeli trolls before, which I still have no idea how they accessed. They did it just to fuck with me.

You get burned a few times, and your objectivity starts to suffer for it. It's human nature.

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This seems to be a potentially racist comment and I'll refer you to rule #1 on the sideboard

I don't see how. Zionists aren't a race and neither are Israelis.

And I'll refer you to a dictionary.

Are you saying Zionist Israeli trolls don't exist, or just that you feel we should be banned for discussing them?

Showing your hand.

The zio squads on topminds and isrconspiracyracist make it abundantly clear that the Zionist perspective is SJW'd to death here. The same usual suspects, using well known and documented forum disruption techniques is just pathetic. There are a group of users here who exist only to be contrarian.

As with the perfect One Direction example, normal people do not flock to things they disagree with. The do not inundate One Direction forums to constantly tell the users how stupid they are. How shitty the band they like is. They don't watch hours and hours of videos to tell people how not worth watching those videos are. How wrong they are.

The fact they log, categorize, rally downvote disinfo squads, speaks volumes on exactly what they are. They should be called out at every opportunity. If you exist for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week telling a conspiracy discussion forum that conspiracies don't exist, you probably need to check yourself. You're not fooling anyone here. Especially the regulars who have seen how you operate, as if working down a checklist EVERY SINGLE TIME.

The one benefit we have is that usually the dumbest of the dumb, lowest of the low are put on forum disruption detail. We've seen some incredibly intelligent and effective shills here, though they are few and far between. There is absolutely nothing wrong with calling out disruptors. With calling out those who wish to cripple, neuter, or dilute of sub.

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I'm not talking about you, unless a pattern begins to develop. Might I ask, why are you paranoid here? This topics comes up almost every other week here.

What I've found is that only one group fears being labeled a shill. Do you know what group that is? Shills. I wonder why that is.

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Absolute bullshit. Reading someone's post history can give clear indications of their purpose here. There are many that are blatant one trick ponies. While I agree that labeling someone a shill should only be done with careful, substantiated information, the act of calling them a shill is dismissive.

There are plenty of known shills here. From the idiots, to those who actually try. The idiots will get called out every single time.

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There is absolutely no disrespect. We do not agree. Feel you're the victim and downvote here all you want.

If you post about vaccines, you get swarmed with shills, by making people aware of them it helps to put them off

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They are being paid to post propaganda

There are probably way more shills(paid commenters) on youtube than are on r/conspiracy.

Honestly, shilling for a conspiracy probably has a reverse affect when it comes to convincing people. Any person genuinely curious about a conspiracy theory topic has to wonder why there are people who not only refuse to consider serious questions raised against the official narrative, but who also continue to show up and 'debunk' something they shouldn't care about.

shill.

downvoted.

And tagged and reported.

it was sarcasm but that's okay.

Could someone tell me what shill actually means? Been reading this sub for a few days and I've seen it thrown around a lot.

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Does that even happen as often as I see people being accused of it? It seems like everyone who doesn't believe every conspiracy theory is accused of being one. Do they actually pay people to do this often?

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You're absolutely right about that too.

If we actually enforced rules on this sub, it would be a much better place. Seems like rules are only enforced when it goes to prove something, or an individual agenda.

I gave up. I rather sift through http://deoxy.org/news/ or here than reading the comments here.

GLP? Really? Ask them about the Carlisle Group some time.

I don't read that, I wrote "rather", because I am still looking for something like /r/conspiracy it was five years ago.

I just don't get why people HAVE to engage with who they think is a shill. Just downvote, report and move on. It's how you diffuse trolls as well. Not that hard.

There's a real difference between a "shill" and a troll. You obviously downvote the troll and move on, but the "paid commentor" will be skilled in sophistry and will make a real issue sound silly, irrelevant, or not important.

Take for example the accusation that those who advocate for GMO labeling are "anti-science" because all the "research" has been done. This is a real twist on what's going on, because, while lots of "research" has been done, the safety testing was not done by an independent agency not influenced by the companies creating the GMO's. This is clearly a dishonest statement, and it shows that the person making the statement is not interested in the truth or exposing the truth, but rather attempting sophistry and will "win" the argument if those reading don't have sufficient knowledge of what is going on. It burdens those of us who want the truth known and to find out the truth. It basically amounts to written warfare.

EDIT: Added last line to summarize.

This is clearly a dishonest statement

Indeed. It is really dishonest to deny that hundreds of studies made my independent organisms are influenced by the companies creating GMOs.

Honesty would be me admitting that there is a possibility that all GMO's are safe (which I do). Dishonesty would be not acknowledging that the process is bias and ripe for corruption.

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I think the best way to expose the shill is to expose the detailed knowledge of the issue, yet continually post comments in favor of their position without acknowledging the weak points. These are the obvious signs of a "paid commentor", because they are re-hashing every angle of their arguments to find the weak points and shore them up, even when they are weak. "You have detailed information about xyz, yet everything you post is in favor of zyx without acknowledging the weakness of zyx. What do you do for a living?"

When you see these types of posts, its obvious that the commentors are NOT interested in principle, truth, fairness. Rather, it is about controlling or spinning the narrative to the benefit of their sponsors.

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I think that if you find someone doing that, you should just downvote and ignore them.

Yes, in /r/conspriacy, this would be a reasonable way of dealing with it. However, sparring with such an opponent does sharpen one's skill at dealing with such sophistry, as long as the amount of energy spent doing so does not detract from other battles.

But following reddiquette doesn't happen often (both on this sub and on Reddit as a whole).

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I'd support that! As of now, it's just "We'll enforce it if we feel like it" (aka "based on context") and then they just allow it. Either make rules and enforce them, or don't make the rules at all.

Ah yes, the "shills". Almost 100% I see that label thrown around, it's jut to mean "guy who disagrees with me and presented evidence that I was wrong". It's just a useless ad hominem attack at this point.

But Monsanto has shills everywhere! Haven't you heard? They browse Reddit all day and post horrible things like evidence or peer-reviewed scientific studies!

Monsanto has a history of hiding the studies and information that does not suit their purpose. Without independent studies outside the bias of such companies, there is little chance of getting good science.

You're in luck! There are thousands of independent studies proving that GMOs are safe!

Perverted Sicence -- The manipulation of GM Research

gmfreecymru

Indubitably a fair, unbiased website! Here's another one: Anti-GMO researchers used science publication to manipulate the press

Are you being sarcastic? It would be pretty naive to think that any company the size of Monsanto does not have a "public relations" department.

http://cultureofawareness.com/2015/04/21/monsanto-and-others-caught-paying-internet-trolls-to-attack-activists/

“An entire department” (waving his arm for emphasis) dedicated to “debunking” science which disagreed with theirs.”

The source the article uses for this claim is Natural Society, which in turn quotes Dailykos. Dailykos has no source, and all results for "Monsanto discredit bureau" on Google quote the Dailykos article.

Also, "public relations" does not mean spending all day browsing /r/conspiracy, the dumbest part of reddit, just to gather downvotes. "Public relations" means advertisments, AMAs,...

Also, "public relations" does not mean spending all day browsing /r/conspiracy, the dumbest part of reddit, just to gather downvotes.

Obviously this subreddit is just a small corner of the internet, people who think that certain theories exist just to discredit 'this sub' lack perspective and place too much importance on this place.

I would guess that actual Monsanto paid shills don't bother with this subreddit at all. The mainstream public perception of Monsanto has shifted so far against them that putting efforts into a place like this is pointless.

"Public Relations" is anything related to influencing opinion. For a corporation the size of Monsanto I wouldn't impose your own perceptional limits to what techniques they might consider to do this.

Redditor for 1 day with no other comment history.

I'm sympathetic to fact-checking, so thanks for adding that. But you're uninformed on the scope of modern professional PR: http://www.ipr.org.uk/public-relations-pr-disciplines.html and http://www.ipr.org.uk/pr-tools-and-techniques.html.

There's a real difference between a "shill" and a troll. You obviously downvote the troll and move on, but the "paid commentor" will be skilled in sophistry and will make a real issue sound silly, irrelevant, or not important.

Take for example the accusation that those who advocate for GMO labeling are "anti-science" because all the "research" has been done. This is a real twist on what's going on, because, while lots of "research" has been done, the safety testing was not done by an independent agency not influenced by the companies creating the GMO's. This is clearly a dishonest statement, and it shows that the person making the statement is not interested in the truth or exposing the truth, but rather attempting sophistry and will "win" the argument if those reading don't have sufficient knowledge of what is going on. It burdens those of us who want the truth known and to find out the truth. It basically amounts to written warfare.

EDIT: Added last line to summarize.

I don't think shills will do much good in /r/conspiracy to advance their issues. This sub has plenty of sharpened minds that make it a "lost cause" to someone trying to "convert" us.

However, in the general news and politic subs, it it quite a different issue, and the repercussions are real and tangible. So, it makes real sense to employ "reputation managers" to create the narrative desired.

GLP? Really? Ask them about the Carlisle Group some time.

This thread was started by a shill, but now his post has backfired and he's deleted himself.

The shill game doesn't work when they are constantly having their cover blown, us calling them out is making their work ineffective, apart from the downvoting censorship side, which we can't do much about.