A simple model for the collapse of the Twin Towers - The Honda collision law

33  2015-08-25 by Akareyon

What if...

...all the floor slabs of the Twins hovered in mid-air and needed only an infinitesimally small impulse to drop towards earth's center of mass, and no breaking, shearing, tearing, buckling, pulverization happened at all?

Intro: the Honda collision law.


The height of the South Tower is 1362 feet. I calculated that from that height, freefall in a vacuum (read, absolutely no resistance on earth) is 9.2 seconds. According to testimony provided to the 9-11 Commission, the tower fell in 10 seconds. Other data shows it took closer to 14 seconds. So the towers fell within 0.8-4.8 seconds of freefall in a vacuum. Just like WTC7, this speed seemed impossible if each of the 110 floors had to fail individually.

As I was considering this, another problem arose. There is a principle in physics called the Law of Conservation of Energy. There is also the Law of Conservation of Momentum. I’ll briefly explain how these principles work. Let’s assume there are two identical Honda Civics on the freeway. One is sitting in neutral at a standstill (0 mph). The other is coasting at 60 mph. The second Honda slams into the back of the first one. The first Honda will then instantaneously be going much faster than it was, and the second will instantaneously be going much slower than it was.

This is how the principle works in the horizontal direction, and it works the same in the vertical direction, with the added constant force of gravity added to it. Jim Hoffman, a professional scientist published in several peer-reviewed scientific journals, took a long look at all of this. He calculated that even if the structure itself offered no resistance, that is to say, even if the 110 floors of each tower were hovering in mid-air, the ”pancake” theory would still have taken a minimum of 15.5 seconds to reach the ground.

So, even if the building essentially didn’t exist, if it provided no resistance at all to the collapse, just the floors hitting each other and causing each other to decelerate would’ve taken 15.5 seconds to reach the ground.


This program computes total collapse times based on parameters describing the floor on which the collapse started. The program makes the following assumptions, all of which favor short collapse times.

• Each floor is an infinitely thin slab, and all the mass of a story is concentrated in the slab.

• Mass is uniformally distributed among the stories.

• The overhanging portion (eg: 14 floors in the North Tower) falls as a block, with its bottom floor accumulating pancaked slabs of the once-intact floors as it encounters them.

• Once the bottom of the block reaches the ground, the floors in it start to pancake from bottom to top, the roof of the tower falling at freefall at that point.

• The falling block remains perfectly centered over the intact portion.

• The accumulation of floors is inelastic.

• Each floor’s support vanishes when touched by the falling block.

• Momentum is conserved.

• None of the kinetic energy of the falling mass is diverted to other sinks (concrete pulverization, steel bending, etc.)

The following table summarizes the results of running the program with parameters specifying that the collapse starts at the 80th and 95th floors:

start floor crash zone to ground roof to ground
80 9.733 s 11.613 s
95 11.604 s 12.608 s

In 2006, Hoffman created a generalized version of the program that allows the removal of the last two assumptions. In particular, it allows the specification of:

• A linear increase in the mass of stories from the roof to the ground.

• The movement of a fixed fraction of the mass falling within the Tower's profile to move outside of the profile with the collapse of each story. Once mass moves outside of the Tower's profile, it does not participate in the acceleration of mass downward.

The Twin Towers, as all large steel-framed skyscrapers, had columns that became less massive at increasing elevation. This means that the Towers' upper stories were considerably lighter than the lower ones. The assumption that the lowest stories were about 1.5 times as massive as the top stories seems like a reasonable assumption. Implementing this adjustment to the model means longer collapse times, of course, since more of the mass would initially be lower in the Tower where it would have less mass underneath it to accelerate downward. However, the simulation shows that even making the mass ratio of the bottom to the top story 2.0 has relatively little effect on total collapse times.

In contrast, the second adjustment of the new model has a pronounced effect on total collapse times. Assuming that just 6 percent of the mass above the impact zone is ejected outside of the Tower's footprint for each story crushed results in a total collapse time of nearly 20 seconds, assuming the collapse started at the 95th floor.

start floor mass of bottom story relative to top mass dispersal per story mass dispersed by end crash zone to ground roof to ground
80 1.5 0 0 9.98 11.92
95 1.5 0 0 11.86 12.91
80 1.5 0.03 0.67 11.56 14.07
95 1.5 0.03 0.68 14.05 15.49
80 1.5 0.06 0.82 13.57 16.53
95 1.5 0.06 0.82 16.59 18.34

> > https://www.math.wisc.edu/~robbin/angelic/911.pdf < <

> > http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/models/ < <



/r/towerchallenge

6 comments

Very interesting. Thanks

Well done.

I wish you would post that at v/911truth as well. Have you checked it out over there? Not as busy as here but its picking up. What do you think about the layout there?

But they did take longer - have you watched the timed collapse here?

About 15.28 seconds for the South Tower, and around 22.02 seconds for the North Tower. Timed and on video.

Nice work on the calculations / figures by the way. I'm pleased someone took the time to put those together.

But they did take longer - have you watched the timed collapse here?

About 15.28 seconds for the South Tower, and around 22.02 seconds for the North Tower. Timed and on video.

I know the towers fell not at freefall. Everybody knows the towers fell not at freefall. Nobody seriously claims the towers fell at freefall, except Bazant, who assumed 99% freefall in his groundbreaking "Simple Analysis", and NIST, who in their FAQ state the towers fell "essentially" in freefall.

I know a small portion of each core remained upright for a few seconds. Everybody knows a small portion of each core remained upright for a few seconds. Nobody seriously claims the whole tower's "collapse" was done once the collapse front hit the ground.

Shall we account for the dust that was still in the air and conclude the towers took hours and days to fall down? I'm sure with some math wizardry, we can prove the towers are still, technically, standing up.

Above calculations assume each floor floated in the air. If you wish, imagine they were lined up on a long, stable broom stick, and fastened only with tooth picks, and balanced so well that a fly sitting down on one would cause progressive, cascading failure - with the broom stick still standing up afterwards. That's what the calculations are about. No buckling, breaking, shearing, tearing has energetically been accounted for yet.

It is a simple model ONLY accounting for conservation of momentum. It is not a model of a tower that dissolves from top to bottom yet.

With that clarified (hopefully), may I ask what exactly you were trying to say? The signal was not quite clear. That it is totally acceptable and perfectly normal and in accordance with the Laws of Motion for the ST to fall in 15.28, and the North Tower in 22.02 seconds, because that's 3.36 and 9.11 seconds longer than if the floors had floated mid-air?

I know the towers fell not at freefall.

NIST has officially recognized that Building 7 experienced "freefall" for a period of time (a couple seconds, if I recall). I forget if such "technicalities" were acknowledged by NIST on WTC1&2.

Assuming you skipped physics 101 in high school, all it takes is one second of freefall, on one building, to completely ignore the "official story".

With all due respect, this debate is about the Twins.

This the scientific consensus about the Twin Towers.

  1. New Scientists says the jet fuel melted the steel beams.

  2. ASCE, with the "stated aim" "seek to prove" that the towers must have collapsed and do so in the way seen and approximate that under most optimistic assumptions the towers were doomed because the percentage of the kinetic energy dissipated plastically is of the order of 1%, assuming &Delta;t = 9s.

  3. FEMA said the floors pancaked.

  4. NOVA showed that the core remained upright.

  5. NIST does not actually include the probable collapse sequence for brevity, because it is inevitable once initiated.

  6. TV shows towers without cores.

  7. Bazant calls it progressive collapse, it is inevitable.

  8. NIST says it was not a progressive collapse. It was a disproportionate collapse.

  9. The Copenhagen Interpretation holds it could even be faster than free fall.

  10. Debunkers think that that's how towers fall because they're big.

I challenge you to propose an experiment. Build a tower. Pick up its top 1/4. Drop it on the rest. Observe, report.

Welcome to /r/towerchallenge.

may I ask what exactly you were trying to say? The signal was not quite clear. That it is totally acceptable and perfectly normal and in accordance with the Laws of Motion for the ST to fall in 15.28, and the North Tower in 22.02 seconds, because that's 3.36 and 9.11 seconds longer than if the floors had floated mid-air?

Well, that's what appeared to have happened.

Let's add a basic air friction model to the gedankenexperiment.

Let's gradually increase the density of the atmosphere, until we arrive at 15.28 and 22.02 seconds respectively.

Then we know what the whole structure was essentially made of during the fall.