r/conspiracy: I've spent the past week looking into the flat earth theory, and I'm here to tell you that the world cannot possibly be flat. OTOH, it does not appear to be a ball either.

I've spent the past week looking into the flat earth theory, and I'm here to tell you that the world cannot possibly be flat. OTOH, it does not appear to be a ball either.

2 2015-09-19 by rabbits_dig_deep

I was spurred to look into flat earth theory when I saw people I respect taking it seriously. These include this site and /r/conspiracy user u/shillyourself. Every conspiracy that I now know to be fact once seemed like complete insanity to me, so I don't use my immediate impression as a gauge of whether something merits investigation.

The evidence I found most intriguing in the pro- Flat Earth Theory (FET) camp:

lights and other objects being seen across vast distances at sea, when the curvature of the earth should be obscuring them. I did the math myself, finding that there are definitely photos that should not be possible.
The strangeness of airline flight routes in the southern hemisphere. Looking at a globe, it's obvious that the shortest route between Buenos Aires and Sydney is straight over Antarctica. But no flights go over Antarctica. Not only that, very few, if any flights go across the south Pacific or south Atlantic. Everything is funnelled through the northern hemisphere, just like you'd expect on a flat earth with the north pole in the center.
photos of the earth from NASA that show drastically different sizes for the Northern hemisphere. Here's one where the USA looks huge, while in this one it's much smaller.

However, there's one huge problem with FET and that's the fact of the setting sun. In FET, the sun would always be in view, even if dimly and far away. It circles the world, never setting.

But we don't see the sun receding so far away that it sheds no significant light our way, we see a big blazing ball sink below the horizon, and our world goes dark.

This is an insoluble problem with FET.

33 comments

8 sliquidsnake 2015-09-19

Your premise is that /r/conspiracy has been taking this nutty shit seriously. Actually, we've been laughing you out of town.

Nice try, forum slider.

-2 jacks1000 2015-09-19

I've never taken this nutty shit seriously, I assumed they are trolls.

5 red_sonya 2015-09-19

Damn, really? Flat earth? I fly a lot and i can tell you the earth is a sphere. If you believe otherwise you're a dann fool.

1 anarchopotato 2015-09-19

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0yBX68g3vk

2 ChangeThroughTruth 2015-09-19

Concave certainly shouldn't be left out of the discussion. It is not a choice between flat and spinning globe. Proofs against any particular model are not direct proofs for any other.

4 GrovyOne 2015-09-19

Concave certainly shouldn't be left out of the discussion.

Unless you want to keep the discussion centered in reality.

1 KnightBeforeTomorrow 2015-09-19

So, North, South, East and West are false concepts?

April 1st was a while back guys.

I've seen your flat earth pancake theory with its total surround of an incredibly massive Antarctica.

It shows that I can go east or west to get to Antarctica. That's one of many reasons why it's too flawed to consider.

Another reason is that it would make the journey AROUND the world many thousands of miles farther, south of the EQUATOR, than a trip around the world would be in the northernmost LATITUDES

This theory is too ridiculous for any reasonable human.

Edit.

I'm thinking this is a psyop to 'prove a point' for these folks.

They can and probably will bring a gradually increasing number of votes in favor of this crap.

Persona management.

Professional blog attacks. https://i.imgur.com/NpbCXHB.jpg

Air Force seeks online persona management software http://www.scribd.com/doc/51066167/Online-Persona-Management

U.S. Military Launches Spy Operation Using Fake Online Identities

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/17/online-persona-management_n_837153.html

US military cyber force activated Operation Screaming Fist is go

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/19/24th_air_force_activated/

Astroturf and manipulation of media messages | Sharyl Attkisson | TEDxUniversityofNevada - [10:37] (youtu.be)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bYAQ-ZZtEU&feature=youtu.be

"I get Paid to Chat on Reddit"

https://archive.is/wrRqy

JTRIG online persona's How Washington and its Allies Use Social Media to Topple Governments & Manipulate Public Opinion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqUztAX7ozw#t=12

Revealed: Pentagon spent millions studying how to influence social media

http://rt.com/usa/171356-darpa-social-media-study/

Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

http://politicalblindspot.com/leaked-intelligence-agencies-running-mass-number-of-propaganda-accounts-on-social-media/

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks

http://boingboing.net/2011/03/17/us-military-launches.html

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/18/revealed-air-force-ordered-software-to-manage-army-of-fake-virtual-people/

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/02/16/945768/-UPDATED-The-HB-Gary-Email-That-Should-Concern-Us-All

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/22/exclusive-militarys-persona-software-cost-millions-used-for-classified-social-media-activities/

Air Force Releases ‘Counter-Blog’ Marching Orders http://www.wired.com/2009/01/usaf-blog-respo/

Persona management, Operation Ntrepid Operation Earnest Voice http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ntrepid

Glenn Greenwald: How Covert Agents Infiltrate the Internet to Manipulate, Deceive, and Destroy Reputations

Glenn Greewld: Hacking Online Polls and Other Ways British Spies Seek to Control the Internet

GCHQ’s “Chinese menu” of tools spreads disinformation across Internet- “Effects capabilities” allow analysts to twist truth subtly or spam relentlessly.

The Guardian: Internet Astroturfing

BBC News: US plans to 'fight the net' revealed

BBC News: Pentagon plans propaganda war

Buzzfeed: Documents Show How Russia’s Troll Army Hit America

CENTCOM engages bloggers

WIRED: Air Force Releases ‘Counter-Blog’ Marching Orders

Military Report: Secretly ‘Recruit or Hire Bloggers’

The Guardian: Israel organizes volunteers to flood the net with Israeli propaganda

The Guardian: Israel ups the stakes in the propaganda war

Israel To Pay Students For Pro-Israeli Social Media Propaganda

BBC News: China's Internet spin doctors

Air Force ordered software to manage army of fake virtual people

HBGary: Automated social media management

NPR: Report: U.S. Creates Fake Online Identities To Counter 'Enemy Propaganda'

The Guardian: US spy operation to manipulate social media

The Guardian: The need to protect the internet from 'astroturfing' grows ever more urgent

Exposing Cyber Shills and Social Media's Underworld

[Turkey's Government Forms 6,000-Member Social Media Team http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887323527004579079151479634742?mg=reno64-wsj&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fonline.wsj.com%2Farticle%2FSB10001424127887323527004579079151479634742.html)

8 Traits Of Disinformation Agents http://planet.infowars.com/worldnews/8-traits-of-disinformation-agents-3-of-5

Disinformation Tactics: The Methods Used To Keep You In The Dark https://sites.google.com/site/allahiseloi/disinformation-tactics-the-methods-used-to-keep-you-in-the-dark

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.) http://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation http://www.globalresearch.ca/twenty-five-rules-of-disinformation/24889

0 rabbits_dig_deep 2015-09-19

That's a really impressive list you've posted here. Too bad this post was so little upvoted and has already dropped into obscurity.

1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2015-09-19

Isn't the earth pear shaped and constantly changing? The north would be the top of the pear.

0 [deleted] 2015-09-19

[deleted]

4 rabbits_dig_deep 2015-09-19

how many flights go over the north pole?

Lots that go very close. But nothing goes over Antarctica.

3 [deleted] 2015-09-19

[deleted]

2 Knotdothead 2015-09-19

This plays a part in it. Airlines like to fly with jet streams, not against them, for fuel considerations. And any trips across the poles will have half of the trip going against the wind. Going against the wind uses a lot more fuel. And lengthens the flight times. In the northern hemisphere running low on fuel isn't that big a deal because there is plenty of land,with airports, close enough to divert to if neccissary. Antarctica, on the other hand ,has very, if any,airports that an airliner could land on. There is also a lot of ocean to cross. Oceans don't have airports,either.

1 cawclot 2015-09-19

If anyone wants to check for themselves...

We operate one day sightseeing flights over Antarctica departing from Australia every summer. Taking around 12 hours the flights are the easiest way to view this great white Continent. No passports are needed and you are kept warm and safe with a glass in hand while our privately chartered Qantas 747 glides effortlessly over amazing scenery.

http://www.antarcticaflights.com.au/

4 Balthanos 2015-09-19

Freezing wings are bad for aerodynamics. Freezing pitot tubes will result in malfunctioning air speed indicators. Both scenarios have resulted in airline crashes.

1 davidtoni 2015-09-19

Uh, how cold do you think it is when a jet is cruising at angels 35?

1 Balthanos 2015-09-19

Let's not bring theology into this.

1 davidtoni 2015-09-19

I like you!

3 snstrmstch 2015-09-19

You may be right as far as political reasons. As I understand, Antarctica has "land" claimed by multiple nations, and could present issues with airspace clearance, but I haven't done any research nor do I claim any reputable expertise regarding such.

0 snstrmstch 2015-09-19

I don't have any answers for you. I do find it annoying though, that this flat earth bullshit has an acronym now. My biggest gripe is why the fuck would anyone conspire to lie about the shape of the planet? Who gains from people believing that the Earth isn't anything but a spheroid?

0 rabbits_dig_deep 2015-09-19

That's not the place to start. I have no idea why they are spraying chemtrails down on us, but that doesn't change the fact that it's happening.

2 snstrmstch 2015-09-19

Are you saying original motive isn't a good place to start?

4 ChangeThroughTruth 2015-09-19

Starting with motive can be a problem in many cases. There are many people in the world and not all are motivated by the same thing. You understand the world from your own perspective. Why should incomprehension of someone else's motivation prevent you from looking at physical evidence?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. - Aristotle

It is ok to think about things even if you don't agree with the conclusion.

0 snstrmstch 2015-09-19

I take no issue with entertaining a thought. The claim that the planet is not as it is abundantly proven to be, for some obscure and ludicrous reason yet to be claimed, is just preposterous to me. That's the only issue I really take with this sub as a whole; that there have been so many "official" lies that some people have deluded themselves, much like an abused woman could be deluded into thinking that all men are violent. If not that, then possibly the "forum sliding" claim. Lying to justify wars or imperial conquest is realistic, albeit atrocious. Lying about the shape of the planet is just as dumb as it is implausible though.

3 ChangeThroughTruth 2015-09-19

I take no issue with entertaining a thought.

Ok, entertain for a moment. We don't have to guess whether or not this is a forum sliding game since it is "implausible", which really just means "far from my world view". Instead we can consider the specifics of the topic. It is not a topic where you have to trust the authenticity of documents or believe what a person is saying. We are talking about the physical properties of the world around us. We can experiment and make diagrams to see if our models fit experimental reality. The spinning globe is a model, it is not reality by default. Let's test the model to see if it fits with reality.

Step 1: NASA is fraudulent. Obviously if they were not, then there is plenty of evidence for the official model. All the information we have about our cosmology is from official sources such as NASA and royal astronomical societies. It is interesting to look into how much of the share of big telescopes the Jesuits own. When we critically look at what NASA has produced starting with the moon landings we see a lot of problems. Critically looking at the imagery of earth from space we find more problems. When you spend enough time critically examining what you get from NASA there are just too many contradictions and things that do not make sense.

Step 2: There are experimental problems with the globe model such as Michelson-Morley, Airey's failure. There are issues with orbital motion of the solar system based on "gravity". The distance you can see over water is too far, requiring light to refract through the atmosphere by an amount very close to the exact supposed curvature of the globe.

I am not promoting any specific alternate model. Just saying that there are some interesting questions and it is not above consideration. Not understanding motivation, "why would they do this?" is secondary to physical evidence. Just because you cannot comprehend the motivation for something is not a reason to ignore all arguments.

-2 GrovyOne 2015-09-19

spraying chemtrails

Water vapor and engine exhaust? The horror!

-1 Knotdothead 2015-09-19

My guess is that the majority of people spreading it don't believe it,either.
Everything about this just screams Mockingbird/CoIntelPro bullshit whose purpose is to make CT's sound like the ravings of lunatics.

-3 metabolix 2015-09-19

If we knew there was more land out there, we would not want to be caged up in the land there currently is. Think about it, there is much to be gained by keeping us in the dark by the power hungry and evil rulers.

0 snstrmstch 2015-09-19

But there is more land out there. Antarctica has already been mentioned in this thread. The only problem is, that land is under ice mostly. Besides, none of us here have the ways and/or means to do anything with this hypothetical frontier you suppose, so what would be the point of lying about it?

-1 metabolix 2015-09-19

You have a very small imagination. Try again.

-2 metabolix 2015-09-19

I have that exact problem with FET, still looking for answers.

0 rabbits_dig_deep 2015-09-19

You mean the fact that we see the sun rise and set?

I've asked this question of a few Flat Earthers and none of the responses have been adequate. They try to lecture me on "perspective" but I already know how it works and that's not what I see with the sun.

-4 metabolix 2015-09-19

Yes, I'm still looking for answers though! Hopefully someone responds to this post.

-2 glugglug 2015-09-19

Flat earth = shills looking to make conspiracy forums look nuttier. The curvature of the Earth can be seen from a tall building. Mountains are harder to notice it, even though they are higher, because the hilliness of the surrounding terrain hides it.

2 Knotdothead 2015-09-19

Can you say Mockingbird?