I think that people who would blindly accept getting a vaccine and that will not tolerate any anti vaccine evidence are the subjects of brain washing. Not that i am saying that all vaccines are dangerous but accepting mandatory vaccination certainly is. This is the idea that i believe people are being conditioned to accept. I wrote an article last year on how the media is promoting mandatory vaccinations in the same way they pushed for a war in iraq. If you are interested i can try to find it. I think it might still be on Natural News somewhere. I live in Canada and i was amazed at the info i dug up. Was actually glad i did it was a real eye opener. Found the article: http://blogs.naturalnews.com/war-drum-media-mandatory-vaccinations/

The reason why there are mandatory vaccinations is because of something called herd immunity. There are some people that depend on everyone else to get vaccinated because they themselves can't get them because of allergies or other various reasons. Just because you choose to let your children not get vaccinated and they get whooping cough, why should you get to in turn accidentally infect someone else's kid?

Right. Have you ever researched herd immunity, vaccines,vaccinations,illnesses/death related to vaccine injury? There usually is more than one side to the story. Oh and by the way i am someone else's kid. I'm still against mandatory vaccinations. http://blogs.naturalnews.com/war-drum-media-mandatory-vaccinations/

I'm not saying that there aren't documented cases of vaccinations having negative affects. But if the small chance of getting a negative reaction to a vaccine is more alluring to you than the small chance of getting a preventable disease, then that's you. I'm still for mandatory vaccinations, which I'm 100% positive will get me downvoted.

I haven't down voted you. I appreciate your opinion. But based on my research i am more likely to get sick from someone who has been vaccinated and sheds the virus. Herd immunity (>.95% vaccinated) is more of a danger to me amongst the mandatory vaccinated crowd. My odds of survival are greater with nature. Thats the detriment of herd immunity people don't hear. And it is the major propaganda slogan of people who want to push mandatory vaccinations. Anyway thats all i have to share. Do take care,j

I'm confused by what you mean here. Are you saying that you're more likely to get the virus from someone who's vaccinated than someone who isn't?

Absolutely. If greater than 95% (herd immunity) of the people are vaccinated in society than yes i would likely become infected from a vaccinated person who sheds the virus. Someone who isn't vaccinated does not have the virus in them and does not pose a risk to me. If everyone in society was vaccinated i would have to stay home. I have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated unless of course they have the flu or whatever virus. But who is to say that they do or will. If mandatory vaccinations become law i'll stand less of a chance. Herd Immunity is not for the benefit of those of us with compromised immune systems.

I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by "shed the virus." I'm not trying to be mean, but I really don't think you understand how vaccines work. If no one is vaccinated, the virus is much more prevalent, so you are more likely to get it.

No problem, no offence taken. Shedding refers to the presence of a virus in the body (secretions,excretions,sores etc.) that have the potential for transmission and infection. Take care,j. BTW- Do we use a live polio vaccine in North America? (Canada & USA)

There are two forms of the vaccine, the inactivated polio vaccine and the oral polio vaccine. The inactive vaccine does not contain the live virus while the oral vaccine does. While the oral vaccine induces paralysis in approximately 1 in 2.7 million people, the number of people suffering from paralysis would be much higher without the vaccine.

Sources: http://www.polioeradication.org/Polioandprevention/Thevaccines/Inactivatedpoliovaccine(IPV).aspx
http://www.polioeradication.org/Polioandprevention/Thevaccines/Oralpoliovaccine(OPV).aspx

You too man.

This is the age old annoyingly reverberated BS you're told, and then you go around repeating it like the little good parrot you are. I don't think you're wrong. I believe that it's true and a very valid argument, but it doesn't remove the doubt that many people have the many vaccines are not necessary, and that they may have multiple purposes. In theory they could prevent the illness and thus prove your argument correct, but also have an effect that may harm you or effect your body in ways you may not realize.

With no valid correlation ever being found to appear consistently in society over the course of however many years vaccinations have been widely available, what do you suggest to mediate these worries? Honestly? I understand completely the concept of people asking questions about "sketchy" things like vaccinations, but there's no evidence to back up any anti-vaccination argument while there are loads of examples of evidence the proves the contrary. What do anti-vaxxers want?

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I don't know if you're saying that I'm doing the downvote brigading, but I'm honestly not downvoting any of your posts. I don't know if you're even saying that I was.

At the same time we are only on the surface of understanding the mind and how we think, how things we see influence our decisions, etc. If it's true that people in power know more about us than WE know about us, there's no telling how they could easily slip past this argument of yours. The possibility exists. That's all that matters. And given what we know about how they deal with matters now and in the past, there's a real good reason to question everything from that point on.

Edit: More than 19 hours later and I'm being vote-brigaded. Nice.

The important thing is that you learn to relegate responsibility for your health to an authority of some kind, and thus do not question what it is doing to you. When something needs to be done to you, an expert will decide what is best, and how much you or your doctor should know about it. This is called rule by technocracy.

Did you use any kind of evidence or thought process to reach your conclusion? Or did you just make it up?

.......so no then.

Fair enough, keep on pondering!

There are several reasons why they would want you to get a vaccine. For starters, you're paying for it. Whether your insurance or the government ends up paying for it, you are actually paying for it indirectly. Second, you can't charge people for medical procedures if they're dead. The best way to make money off someone's health is to keep them alive for as long as possible. The longer they live, the higher the chances of them needed more procedures to keep their bodies working. In fact, under the US system, it makes the most sense to keep anyone from ever getting sick because they have to pay insurance anyway.

The people who get them seem to be already brainwashed, apart from children who just blindly trust adults

Maybe you're right, I became more rebellious when I didn't take some obligatory school vaccines.

Well done kid.

I would say there certainly would be. Not that vaccines would actually MAKE you more obedient, just you'd have to be a good little servile drone to slave off your health and that of your children to the magic doctor fairies.

The vaccine injuries are far worse than any childhood disease, I'm not scared of any one of the childhood diseases, I've had most of them

There certainly seems that be a correlation between increasing technology and obedience.

Have you ever had polio? No? That's vaccines at work for you.

Thats way over simplified. What if you just never came in contact with polio??

Because it's eradicated in 99% of the world, it only occurs in the poorest countries.

Just like how smallpox was the first disease to be completely eradicated 35 years ago, thanks to a global vaccination campaign.

Maybe ask your grandparents if they remember polio.

But what if you did, got polio, and died? Hypothetical situations are literally the weakest defense in an agrument. I'm not trying to sound hostile, but seriously, what if an asteroid crashes into the Earth tomorrow? Are you just going to say "fuck it, might as well give up on everything?"

No but you used the same argument on me first, just in reverse. So if there is any chance of anything happening to us we need to act right away even though there might be science on the other side. Sounds like a world totally in fear just the same way it s if people are naive to not get them. There is evidence on both sides so the ground is grey, not black or white

I was using the same argument to show you how it doesn't work. You can't just say "you know, let's not get vaccinations because there may be something in them that could maybe possibly be bad." And what evidence is there on the anti-vaccination side from a reputable source?

I've never been attacked by a tiger in my garden either. I guess that tiger spell I paid that witch for is working after all!

Yeah, let's compare a micro-sized virus with a fucking tiger, and compare vaccinations with fucking black magic. That's like comparing a cold with a curse. Have you ever had measles? What about Diphtheria, Hep A, Hep, B, the mumps, whooping cough, Rotavirus, rubella, tetanus? No? Then shut the fuck up. I'm actually all for anti-vaxxers to get these terrible diseases if it'll fucking show them that vaccinations aren't evil creations of big pharma.

You forget the possibility that they may in fact prevent these diseases while also working to create an even bigger issue in the body over time. That's what I think many anti-vaxxers are concerned about.

Also, many of these diseases were in decline well before the vaccines were implemented on the masses. our body is very resilient so naturally it builds up defenses on its own. Plus its not to say there isnt weight on both sides, the important thing is that its an open case and not case closed like many people want to claim even though they have never looked into any independent research

But what evidence is there to support any part of that claim? I literally cannot understand how a majority of people on /r/conspiracy seem to be atheist because there's no proof/evidence of God, but with stuff like anti-vaccination they don't need any proof or evidence to blindly follow their ideas. I mean seriously, what do anti-vaxxers want?

Here is somewhere to start. Knock yourself out:

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2015/09/29/didnt-vaccines-wipe-out-diseases-an-untold-truth-about-vaccines/

http://new.thelastamericanvagabond.com/health/why-californias-mandatory-vaccine-bill-is-anti-science/

http://www.activistpost.com/2013/09/22-medical-studies-that-show-vaccines.html

First link: Not going to dispute that, but the whole point of vaccinations was to not be one of the rare cases of polio or so-and-so disease.

Second link: There has been problems with vaccinations in a small amount of documented cases, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't get vaccinated. Would you rather have an autoimmune disease or die from a preventable disease?

Third link: it's just like with climate change. Just because there are a minority of reports that go against the stronger supported side doesn't mean that the minority is right. I'm all for more research and more studies suggesting that vaccinations cause these problems consistently, but until then, my opinion hasn't changed.

Given that you're in r/conspiracy, the whole purpose of questioning what we're told is because we do not trust that the people who control the masses have our best interest at heart.

I'll put it in a way that may actually be true... Those who control us give us vaccinations because they do work to prevent diseases, because they really do want us to be alive, otherwise how could they profit? At the same time, it is the ultimate scapegoat for feeding each of us a good little dose of something that can make them even more money later on, or dumb us down... or whatever. The possibility of that exists. To completely deny that possibility is to feed right out of the hands of these people in power.

When you divert to saying most people in /r/conspiracy are atheists, I think many times people choose to discredit organized religion because it is the complete opposite, it feels safer. I personally consider that we are spiritual beings and are capable of much more. This is another way of keeping an open mind about what reality may be like. I'm not going to go around saying GOD ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT EXIST. That isn't in the spirit of open mindedness. If we are indeed spiritual beings with great potential, that is yet another reason they wouldn't want us to know about our own strength...

I want to live in a world where vaccines aren't going to be forced on me or my family. I want to have the choice. That's all. As it stands right now we are losing our free will more and more each day.

I agree wholeheartedly that possibilities such as the ones you mentioned are, not to sound redundant, possible. But do you not see the harm that is comes with that thinking? Because something is possibly bad or something is possibly hidden doesn't mean that it exists. And is the possibility of such things over weigh the possibilities of getting the measles or whooping cough? I forget exactly where in the US this happened, but recently due to people not vaccinating their children against whooping cough, there was a mini-epidemic in elementary schools around the area. Just because there's a possibility of something bad being in vaccinations that's enough reason to not get vaccinated against real diseases?

I understand where you're coming from too. The truth is there is nothing that I want that isn't just to live without fear. I know that's what all anti-vaxxers want. Of course no one wishes for their children or other children to be sick. That's the most messed up part about this all because there is nothing to win. We win nothing by being right. We are just fucked either way. One thing that still stands though is that soon we will no longer be free from such decisions and that alone is what I wish we could prevent. I have no other intention than just to promote freedom of choice. Once we lose that there is no telling what we may be mandated to face one day.

I do understand the whole aspect of "free to choose." And I'm probably a bit hypocritical to be honest. I do think that people should have the freedom to choose what they say, do, etc., but it's just that there are some really, really, really stupid people out there that would screw their kids over due to their own beliefs. Glad we can have a (mostly :p) civil conversation about this. At least you're actually having a conversation about it rather than just downvoting and moving on.

Of course, you're giving me a lot to think about too. Thanks for being civil, it's easy to talk across two screens without making the connection that another person is actually there. Just keep in mind that there are really stupid people, and then there are people who know too much. Both people will look stupid to someone who doesn't care to investigate both sides of the story.

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Correct. Like Coca Cola, a few ingredients will be revealed, but not others. It's private intellectual property in spite the tremendous public liability it entails.

With no valid correlation ever being found to appear consistently in society over the course of however many years vaccinations have been widely available, what do you suggest to mediate these worries? Honestly? I understand completely the concept of people asking questions about "sketchy" things like vaccinations, but there's no evidence to back up any anti-vaccination argument while there are loads of examples of evidence the proves the contrary. What do anti-vaxxers want?

I'm not saying that there aren't documented cases of vaccinations having negative affects. But if the small chance of getting a negative reaction to a vaccine is more alluring to you than the small chance of getting a preventable disease, then that's you. I'm still for mandatory vaccinations, which I'm 100% positive will get me downvoted.