[deleted]

I've been banned 4 separate times for calling out jidf on worldnews

The US government owns this website and that subreddit is their flagship.

If they own this website why do subreddits like this still exist and their threads allowed to reach the /r/all front page?

/r/conspiracy is also heavily gamed. If they straight up banned /r/conspiracy it would be pretty obvious they are limiting speech.

The threads arnt allowed to hit the front page of r/all unless you have personally subscribed to that thread. Then it appears on your r/all only. The issue here is a lot of people browse reddit without an account. So while a thread here might get a lot of attention it is still unable to reach the masses who just casually browse the website.

Ontop of that it keeps like minded individuals in one place and doesnt spead opionons against the narrative into other places. Coupled with the fact that a smear campaign against the anti-narrative is easily spread when there is a handful of isolated targets. Which leads to fake accounts spreading hate and usuing it as 'proof' that we are all a bunch of racists because we support palestinians and not Zionist jews.

The threads arnt allowed to hit the front page of r/all unless you have personally subscribed to that thread. Then it appears on your r/all only. The issue here is a lot of people browse reddit without an account. So while a thread here might get a lot of attention it is still unable to reach the masses who just casually browse the website.

I just wen't on /r/all through tor without logging in and found a /r/conspiracy thread on there.

[deleted]

What argument? I was asking a question you fuckstick.

Also you don't need "an absolute monopoly on every aspect of reality" to have a few subreddits banned.

Easy way to avoid this. Instead of "SHILL!" why not try

Dear sir, madame, or other-kin, it appears as though you are pushing a specific agenda and your comments/contributions are, perhaps, biased towards the subject.

Phrased as an objective opinion, as opposed to an accusation or 'attack,' including politically erect correct newspeak.

Yes, that is a good idea. Criticize the behavior not the person. You can also link to this one without making accusations.

The Gentleperson's Guide To Forum Spies (spooks, feds, etc.)

https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm

edit: Though they probably can ban you randomly. I think I got banned after this comment.

https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3qtq5v/swedens_outspoken_foreign_minister_says_in_the/cwife57

I wonder if this post will also get deleted like the #1 post on r/worldnews, that got deleted 1 hour ago, because it was about the UK.

This is an article about Sweden, so should it be posted in r/sweden?

This is the post I was talking about:

Poor white boys get a worse start in life

Mods claim it would be the wrong subreddit. I think this is another case of an arbitrary deletion, as other articles about UK or Europe are not targeted.

Criticize the behavior not the person. You can also link to this one without making accusations.

If they want to silence dissent by silencing certain opinions, they're going to find we're more than capable of playing their game of jumping through all the hoops of political correctness and implying much without outright saying it.

Though they probably can ban you randomly.

Certainly, they will. Dissent must be silenced. Most boards don't want a legitimate argument, because argument is a violent word. They don't even want a discussion, because those imply there are other viewpoints aside from their own that may be correct or more valid than theirs. No, they want safe spaces, echo chambers, for their voices to be heard and none other.

Mods claim it would be the wrong subreddit.

Anything that goes against the narrative is obviously in the wrong subreddit.

That's why I got banned.

I accused /u/KVillage1, arguably the most well known pro-Israel user on /r/worldnews, of being a shill.

I provided a slew of links about Israel's hasbara program as evidence and that was somehow used against me.

I've been banned from that sub for over a year now, and I've tried appealing my ban to no avail.

Apparently you just can't call the pro-Israel, suspected JIDF, out on their intentions. It appears to be something that the mods are very serious about.

Shills won a long time ago

Reddit being Reddit

well.. isn't that the rule here too?

I mean I don't agree with it

[deleted]

Where do the productive contributors go? I'd like to follow.

[deleted]

Many thanks (and you are one of them certainly).

Voat

yeah because mods like flytape and sm ban them citing the shill rule as their reason...

When r/conspiracy gets brigaded with racist threads, if you point out the shilling the shills will immediately state they reported you. I don't know know if people get banned but it's definitely censorship in favor of bullshit.

Shills OWN /r/worldnews.

Of course they are.

Reddit's Income comes from advertising. Advertising these days isn't silly things like banners and a quarter-page plot. It's in the links themselves; the sources of the stories and the comments.

Just how much has advertising corrupted the public discourse? Educate yourself.

/r/InternetPR

/r/utcognoscantveritatem

It's a massive muddied soup of individual users, bots, and Social Media Public Relations Personnel.

I honestly think the rule makes sennse, if all you offer is "you're a shill" in the comment.

I've seen that here before. I can't remember what the argument was, but the person called me a shill, as if that's a lock down in a discussion.

Same with all the conspiracies that people hate seeing, like flat earth, chemtrails, etc. I see a lot of people accuse them of being a shill to make us all look crazy, rather than actually refuting the point.

This is why I get my news from /r/conspiracy and titles only from /r/news

That is not a joke or sarcasm. Sorry if you were temporarily insulted. Conspiracy is alt.news now.

Lockheed has a lot of trolls on reddit too.

Example?

Despite all attempts to prove to the world that Israel is the most moral and ethical defensive force – something all Jews and people of good conscience should know is true – none of our enemies believe it, nor will believe it, no matter how many facts we provide."

Yikes

After that, I realized he was trying to limit the damage by discrediting the links themselves.

I've seen that one many, many times myself. The sick thing is how often the "mob" take those lies as truth because they're too damn lazy to actually look into anything themselves. Pisses me off.

Are you aware of "Megaphone"?

The jidf did redirect me to zales.com first try

Second try to the actual site

On mobile if that changes how the link works

r/worldnews shills have been winning for years. They've even scaled down their shill count by a 100 - 150 accounts.

They are only winning with themselves.

Considering worldnews is and has been for some time CLEARLY of shills, by shills, for shills... how is this a conspiracy again?

This sub has a similar rule. Sucks.

What is the difference between a shill and a believer? You cannot tell the difference without proof and it should make zero difference to you. Yet you guys continuously choose to baselessly accuse people. You should be banned for that, tossing around stupid accusations instead of arguments.

They have a new tactic. Apparently, even if another user is brazenly shilling, you can't call them out on it. If you do, it is now considered to be "a personal attack" even if you use polite language.

So either you leave the shills alone, or you get banned from the sub.

Oh for God's sake, you know exactly why you should get banned for that. Stop pretending to be so stupid.

You're making an baseless accusation without any evidence or support, that attempts to shut down conversations instead of actually having a discussion. There's a reason it's against the rules.

It's completely irrelevant whether there are or not.

Where someone is getting their opinion from has nothing to do with the quality of their arguments and shouldn't influence counter-argument or rebuttal. And yet here that's all that seems to happen, turning comment threads into complete cesspools of smug dickheads congratulating each other on spotting the paid poster. Or what they think is a paid poster. Look at the rest of this thread for examples of this.

If you're secure in your argument then it doesn't matter who you think you're arguing with.

This all comes after the colossal problem of a shill accusation being all in the accusers head.

Baseless and without supporting evidence, could be 100% correct but there's no way to be sure so forget it.

This is why the title of the post comes across as so particularly stupid.

Are you saying you don't think there are any shills hanging around that sub?

Frankly I think /r/worldnews , /r/conspiracy and most news/politics subs are populated more by idiots than anything else.

I doubt there are any, it doesn't make sense to me. There are enough arguments, issues and divisive opinions in the world without the need to pay people to pretend to have them.

And again, zero proof either way so it's hardly worth the effort.

Yeah, mate, I get the idea that manipulation = bad.

You're missing the point.

Now, how would you feel if you found out that the contents/comments were being systematically manipulated according to someone else's agenda? Are you saying that wouldn't bother you one bit?

If I found out that was true. The missing step is where you prove it as opposed to just saying it.

When you say that the "shills are winning" and provide nothing but empty accusations, you're asking people to agree to your agenda on the basis of well, nothing.

Now it so happens that a lot of folks here agree already - don't confuse that with your argument having any merit

You're missing the point again.

I'm not saying that it isn't a thing. I'm not saying it doesn't happen on the internet.

I'm saying that accusations like this thread are beyond stupid because you have no proof or support for your accusations.

Zero. None. Nada.

This guy gets it

Saying that someone is "brazenly shilling" (whatever that is) is still only your opinion and therefore you should phrase it as such.

Instead you're pretending that these are accepted facts and should really stop it.

Ok, it's just my opinion.

Can you edit the top post to say this? Seems the honest thing to do.

Don't want users to think you actually know anything solid here.*

But I still want to know how you'd feel if you found out someone was trying to manipulate your opinions?

Meh. That's already happening. Adverts and mass media is all about persuasion, sometimes to tell a story and sometimes to sell a story. It can be obvious or subtle.

If I found out that default subs were infested with paid proponents of certain theories - I'd be amazed that it was either kept quiet, or happened at all - given the colossal waste of money I think it would be. I mean, come on, /r/worldnews ? It's not worth spare change.

I don't mind this because I'm a very strong proponent of free speech. But isn't it better for each side to be up front about their views?

It's not about persuasion, it's about encountering others who believe a certain thing - you're more likely to consider an idea the more you see others adopting it. It's bottom-up rather than top-down.

That's how I see the theory of how it would work here, I guess. But again, proof, evidence etc.

** = not trying to be a dick, I just can't seem to word it another way. The top post is nothing but opinion and supposition.

First, not one word about the page with the search results basically proving that shilling goes on in a systematic, large-scale way.

So either you ignored it, or you are avoiding any mention of it.

It wasn't relevant to the point I was making, why talk about it then? To repeat - I'm not saying it doesn't exist.

I wasn't saying "Oh ok, you're right" But admitting that it's my opinion... which may or may not be correct.

Oh come off it. Now deep into a thread where not many will read you'll say it's just your opinion, yet in the top post you're pretending to know for sure. That's what I object to and it's all over the thread.

The main point I've been trying to make in this exchange is that without direct evidence or proof an accusation is just that, an accusation. Stop dressing opinion up as fact.

Now I'm asking for you to listen one last thing. It's important because this explains how shilling works......This is the power of group influence.

Yeah, that makes sense. And if you read my post above I make the same point.

But again, that's not the point I'm trying to get through to you.

I'm starting to think you're deliberately misunderstanding my posts.

No, you just want me to think the same way you do and I don't.

Jesus, no. I just want to you to stop pretending your opinions are established facts. That's it. That's the only point I care about getting across here.

Think whatever way you like, but try to avoid, you know, lying.

But I try and suggest that "the good guys" are doing the same thing and you get all skeptical.

You blatantly stated that it was occurring in a specific place without any supporting evidence to your claim. Don't pretend that you were merely "suggesting". It's dishonest and makes you look ridiculous.

So who is biased or going on opinion here?

Both of us, but I'm not claiming to know things I don't, which is the entire problem with your posts all over the thread.

I'll let you have the last word. I've made my points.

You haven't really, I don't think.

ps. Thank you for this lengthy and polite discussion. I believe that our debate has helped me better organize and express my own thoughts and ideas about this issue.

It's been polite but I feel like I'm bashing my head off a wall here.

Can confirm...a few months ago I was banned from /r/worldnews without a warning for a minor insult ("idiot" / "shill"). I supplied the insult after a user (Sleekery's sock puppet dtiftw) made a character defamation attack on someone else who wasn't there to defend himself, from a link I purposely planted to see if he would do it. He did it, so I called him an idiot. Not moments later, Sleekery shows up to complain about my comment and defend his sock puppet, so I call him a shill. Got banned for it. When I tried to appeal nicely with a mod, he basically said fuck off here's your permaban. Awesome sub.

Smart move, I had a doppelganger show up the other day named RageTantrum, but he already deleted it since I called out his other account LOL :D

Butthurt op can't handle opinions, assumes every person who disagrees with him is a shill.

So says the shill

It's Mr. JIDF CIA FBI shill to you.

http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Looks+like+we+got+a+badass+over+here+_47ce4429e71abca7fcd268970de74305.jpeg

wew lad, such nice meme you got there

doot and lots of calcium to you too sir have a nice day

It's Mr. JIDF CIA FBI shill to you.

When r/conspiracy gets brigaded with racist threads, if you point out the shilling the shills will immediately state they reported you. I don't know know if people get banned but it's definitely censorship in favor of bullshit.