I agree 100%.

But we also have an internal problem of our own. "Shill"

please lap everything I say, otherwise i will call you names.

I think this weakness is exploited by both sides of any debate. It might even be hardwired into our brains. Some of us lead, most of us follow. I don't know if there is a gene that makes followers/leaders or whatever but I've encountered people in this world who seem painfully incapable of forging an original thought that is their own.

And I've encountered others still who can not act on information until they discover it for themselves.

These facts trouble me more than most. Helpless servitute versus self-hero worship.

What makes you think "Shills" aren't the ones crying "Shill"?

What makes you think that people that want you to think the shills are the ones crying shill aren't the shills?

^ shill

Found the shill!

I know for a fact they do that frequently. They aren't the only ones crying shill, if that's what you meant.

There's a difference between "suspected conspiracy" and "conspiracy theory". I'd say "suspected conspiracy" is where you actually have a few facts (not just doubts or innuendo; real smoking guns) in support of your thinking, and "conspiracy theory" is where you first decide what the conclusion is (govt is evil, usually) and then go from there, maybe never getting to any actual facts. Once you prove it, it becomes "confirmed conspiracy".

"Conspiracy theory" just means "belief in a massive conspiracy, based on a desired conclusion and no evidence".

http://www.billdietrich.me/Reason/ConspiracyTheories.html

so holochaust denial equal "conspiracy theory"? suspected conspiracy, assasination of JFK? confirmed conspiracy invasion of Iraq?

If you invent a theory with no facts, starting with conclusion, and persist despite no facts, that's a conspiracy theory. I'd say holocaust denial and JFK fall into that category, invasion of Iraq doesn't.

you are funny.

It's sad because conversationally, when people start saying "conspiracy theory" or referring to you as a "theorist" early in a conversation, you can tell they are either narrow minded or are not open to hearing about other world views or theories. It's a pretty quick red flag in a conversation.

also if you don't defer to scientists over your own insights about your body and the natural world around you - you must be cray cray,

in history class I learned in ancient times priests told the people the truth that was only given to them by the gods - and they were the only ones allowed to speak to the gods (priests not people) but that the people were blessed to get this info passed down to them. they did not consider taking in that information to be an act of "faith" or 'choosing to believe" - as we recognize it in retrospect - to them it was just knowledge.

how is that different today when scientists tell us the results of data gathered that we mere mortals have no ability to confirm for ourselves. How is Nasa not like those priests of ancient times? they are the only ones who can go into space and we are blessed with them showing us what they see up there. when we look through a telescope we see dots - they tell us what those dots are, such a leap of vast information - but we do not see this as a faith and a belief? if we can't go there ourselves too - the dynamic is the same as the ancient priests explaining the heavens to the people, and it is only healthy and enlightened to question.

Leadership genes? Leadership genes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/on-leadership/wp/2015/05/29/looking-for-a-leadership-gene/

Eh, not really. A conspiracy theorist is a person who creates or believes in theories about conspiracies. Nothing more, or less. You know how we like to call any shootings a hoax, before any details are confirmed, before the bodies even have a chance to go cold, just so we can say we called it first? That's what brings the negative connotations to the label, not the media. Every time we rush off proclaiming our speculation as if it were fact, we do more damage to the label 'conspiracy theorist' than any media corporation could ever hope to do. As a long time conspiracy theorist, I can tell you we weren't always this kooked up. Alex Jones and the like have a lot to be blamed for in this regard.

Yes, I think conspiracy theorists have been fooled by people who are making money or making political points by pushing this stuff. There is a pretty good industry promoting this.

While I understand what you're saying, I still think it's important to acknowledge the theories.

In this sub, I occasionally see posts about chemtrails, or even more "out there", ball earth skeptics. Every time, without fail, the vast majority of comments just say that these people are shills trying to make the sub look crazy, rather than actually attacking the arguments.

This sub, I believe, should remain open and skeptical of all ideas, even if they seem way out there. That's not to say we shouldn't say shits wrong when it's wrong, just that "you're a shill" should never be an argument in and of itself.

I agree with you so much.

thank you for saying this.

I am a ball earth skeptic, and I see zero merit in people making nasty accusations toward me for it. If they want to say they disagree, awesome. NO prob. most of my closest friends disagree :) All the more if they actually want to look at the reasons I'm saying I think earth is not a ball and still disagree - well gold stars all around, that's awesome too. Frankly - I think it's about the biggest leap there is to make in terms of unlearning so if people don't go there - I can only respect the fact that there may be places I'm not going yet and I should so who am I to judge even if I think I'm right. Anyway -- exploring ideas should be good. Disagreeing is good too we should all take our own path to get to any personal certainly.

But insults over differing perspective --- is not good and is an impediment to healthily vetting information of any kind. if something is untrue - let the untruth be apparent in the faulty proof, slander need never be a part of it.

I agree and thanks for your post.

Thank you for digging where most people don't because it's "stupid" or whatever. Even if you're wrong, I think being skeptical should never be looked down upon, especially in this sub. I first heard of the theory through Deep Inside the Rabbit Hole (a conspiracy podcast that digs deep into a lot of conspiracies and offers a shit load of info), and while I'm not convinced yet, I admittedly haven't seriously looked into it, so I refuse to outright dismiss it.

And it's weird, because people should know exactly how you feel. I for one believe that the official story of 9/11 is horse shit, but I go to other subreddits and see "Dank fuel can't jet melt beams" and other jokes about conspiracy theorists all the time. It just makes me feel deflated. You need to deal with that same thing here and that's just not fair.

So again, thank you for being a skeptic and refusing the to accept things just because we've been taught them our whole life.

thank you for thanking me and thanks again right back :)

my first was 9/11 too. I watched loose change on a whim and my brain was just like ---- hold up -- hold up on so much. first time I told somebody close to me I though ti was an inside job they called me all sorts of bad things. it was a really painful interaction. slowly tho I found a way to communicate with them, it was quite the process. for the record they now agree with me on 9/11 and flat earth. (over about a year and a half of talking - last few months on the flat earth - which also started off with - now this is way too much) I looked into flat earth because I thought it was parody, I can't imagine why else I would have looked into it - if I had thought they were serious I think I would have "known" it was wrong and never clicked. when I first realized they made some good points it was the strangest sensation - like just -- no. what? no. but then it just became like scratching an itch, can they convince me? it doesn't feel terrible to let them try ... and I just kind of kept checkin out various arguments. and calling various science centers to ask for counter arguments to specific points. and at some point -- I just realized, holy moly go my freaking wha the -- ha. it's flat. it's flat, it's flat. ha. ugh. ha. I don'r know what it means, it's quite the can of worms and surely it's only a tiny crude beginning to so much more to learn. but anyway -- yeah. I now think the earth is flat no matter what names anybody calls me. and learning about 9/11and starting to talk about it actually helped prepare me for the insults I get now on this. it's also a lot less scary than 9/11 imo - I mean if you realize our gov murdred us and controlled the media's coverage of the murder - that's a lot freaking scarier than -- wait a minute the surface of water really doesn't curve convexly no matter what you do to it but it has to if the oceans are covering a ball - so what does that mean.

anyway, freedom of thought!!!! & kindness on earth - whatever shape it is. here here :)

I can't believe people tolerate chemtrail denial around here... it's absolutely no secret... and than ask for sources and proof... LOL go find it for yourself ... here in Calgary it is obvious and quite regular . If you can create huge arguments and compile lists of metabunk hot links .. you don't need my help finding good information on geo engineering period.

I don't think a theory with no solid facts deserves any respect or acknowledgement. Just having a theory or an argument with no solid evidence is useless. We could sit here all day making up ideas or theories.

There is a pretty good industry promoting this.

Says the guy with a website solely committed to saying all conspiracy theories are fake.

Thanks for linking to it, I found the momentary perusal highly entertaining.

If our government really had amazing secret technologies, wouldn't it have used them against our enemies ? Don't you think our government and military used every tool they had against North Vietnam, or the Soviet Union, or Saddam Hussein, or Osama bin Laden ?

This was my favourite. Show is the military industrial complex going to profit without enemies? OBL likely died in 2001, to the great distress of the PTB...but they managed to keep the boogeyman alive and the dollars rolling in.

You set up straw men, is that because that is the only type of argument you are capable of addressing?

That's one page out of a hundred or more on my web site. Check out the whole site, some great stuff on there: http://www.billdietrich.me/

Why would I bother? So far, you seem to take everything the government says at face value and then base your arguments off of it.

Who sent the anthrax, genius? What for? Trying to mislead people is not a worthwhile endeavour.

there is a much "better" industry threatened by it

Conspiracy theorists pose no threat to the establishment, military industry, etc.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-23/1967-he-cia-created-phrase-conspiracy-theorists-and-ways-attack-anyone-who-challenge

if no threat posed why counter attack