ive worked in healthcare for years now, and im open to alternative forms of medicine. meditation? fuck yes! bring it on! acupuncture? hell yeah! massage therapy? BOM CHIKA WAH-WAH! homeopathy? get the fuck out of here with that bullshit. its all just nonsense. people with no education trying to do the exact same shit as the big pharma companies do. sell useless shit to make some money.

Massage therapy is legitimate. Shouldn't really be labled alternative. Insurances bill for it. Its becoming pretty standard practice in both rehab and psych care. The latter being more of a ptsd thing as opposed to in-hospital advanced diagnosis tool.

Portions of acupuncture and chiropractic should also not be considered "alternative", i.e. pain relief. Doctors refer patients for these treatments all the time.

The issue comes when they claim that sticking you with needles will cure your cancer or that manipulating your spine will cure your depression.

Not all of the individuals practicing in those fields are as bad as others, but several of them are using the few effective methods to legitimize many methods that are as proven as homeopathy.

No no no. Hw can you even tie homeopathy w i th big pharma? They don't even have the same profit margins for one, and they don't advertise. It's there if you want it, but no one is forcing you to take it. I like how you can justify acupuncture and meditation, but homeopathy is a big no. Why is that, can you explain

If you had a sick child and denied it adequate medicine and instead provided a homeopathic remedy you could be charged with a crime assuming the child incurred harm because of the illness. You seem to be stuck in your ways. I just dont want you to hurt someone else.

No idea how you made that jump in conclusion. You people are something else, entirely!

uh. Well lets see. There was the faith healing conviction.

Take a person who erroneously believes something will solve their problems. Put them in a situation where a child will either get adequate help or the erroneous method of treatment. Can you not see the parallels? It's pretty much the same exact concept.

A little digging reveals an article describing a death related homeopathic medicine replacing appropriate medical treatment.

I never made any connections with faith healing here sorry if you misunderstood and I already commented on that story

Well that's how I came to make that comment is all. I don't want an argument so much as I want you and anyone you care for to get adequate treatment.

Yes, it's not you, everyone else is crazy.

Hi, I used to work for a U.S. drugstore, and several years ago we started producing our own name-brand generic homeopathic remedies, marked it up a TON, and had PHARMACISTS recommending them to patients. Cost less than 2 cents to make the pill, considering how cheap sugar is and the fact that we aren't required to even do any testing on them.

Yes that's why I advised people to research what they are buying as some products are made in a safe and controlled lab while others are not

Yes make sure you buy the right sugar pill

what

look. how can i tie homeopathy to big pharma? its easy! profit motive! pure and simple. big pharma sells meds people dont need that do things they dont want done. homeopathy sells pseudo medicine with some mysticism that people dont need that dont do a damn thing! its just as bad as riki therapy or whatever the hell its called where people work with crystals and shit.

and i dont have to explain why acupuncture and meditation is ok but homeopathy is not because of results. homeopathy has no reproducible results, and its always blamed on some extraneous bullshit. but meditation, acupuncture, chiropractic medicine, massage therapy, breathing excersizes, all this has some reproducible positive results. but not homeopathy.

im a nurse for a living. im actually working right now. ive been doing this for a few years now. i know big pharma is bad. these guys are dick dastardly level of villains. but homeopathy is for weak minded fools who just want to waste money.

BECAUSE ITS BULLSHIT AND ANYONE CAN SEE THAT!!!!!

Well that's that then, well thought out and reasoned opinion there chum /s

Yeah clearly

homeopathy is pure bullshit.

in no way is it based on "energy frequencies"

that doesnt even make sense

homeopathy uses quantum physics

agreeing that homeopathy only serves to exploit the weak minded does not make one a shill

Why doesn't it make sense and explain how it exploits "the weak minded". Explain to me how modern medicine doesn't do that today.

There is a concept that the more you dilute something, the stronger it becomes. The solution remembers the medicine within it and getd stronger... this is bullshit. And dangerous. Its a good way for me to sell you something that costs very little.

PLEASE READ THIS PART IN FULL..

The pharmecutical companies dont want something like pot out there because people claim that it can replace a litany of drugs that affect nausea, appetite, pain etc. Despite the claim by the US gov't that there is no medicinal value in marijuana there still exists documents that explicitely state the benefits of pot on record. This contradiction exists because the plant DOES WORK.

In the case of homepathic "medicine" you have the opposite. A litany of experiments that show no efficacy beyond that of a plecebo pill.. the people who proclaim its efficacy are usually out to sell you something.

I was once a nurse before an injury. I've studied pharmacology and have to fully understand the drugs i give my patients. That includes being up on trends like when they discovered that Ativan was being prescribed at higher dosages than reccomended. The reason they know things like that is because constant testing is being done as to efficasy of current, new meds. Homeopathic medicine never results to anything solid. Its not that the science cant keep up. Its a way for someone to sell you water (free) and tell you its medicine (not free). You're being duped and worse, you defend it. I now practice massage therapy. Do you think a day goes by without someone in the field of relaxation deciding to pitch some bullshit that doesnt work my way?

Find one peer reviewed and REPLICATED experiment where someone benefits and ill subscribe to homeopathy. Until then i cant condone anything that takes from people without giving back. Selling false hope and wasting the time of the sick is horrible. These snake oil salemen make a living sounding like they have the answers where modern medicine cannot provide... dont hurt other people by spreading their misinformation. If dilution of something makes it stronger then drink ocean water. It has every medicine in it and every poison in it ever. Should make you immune from poison while curing you of everything right?

Why doesn't it make sense and explain how it exploits "the weak minded"

Here's an example:

Homeopathy dilutes a chemical by a factor of 100 and then repeats the dilution up to 300 times.

If you repeat it just 100 times you end up with a dilution of 10^-200

Just to demonstrate the ridiculousness of that number, the number of atoms in the universe is estimated at 10⁸⁰

If you diluted the universe to the same degree, you'd have a 1 in 10¹²⁰ chance of it containing just a single atom.

Or to put that into perspective, if every atom in the universe was a person, you'd have to give them all 10¹²⁰ homeopathy doses each to make sure just one of them drank the dose with the 'active ingredient'

10¹²⁰ =

1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

We need a 'ridiculous big numbers' conversion bot. It just brings the point across much better.

Yep. The numbers are unimaginably large. To write it out fully:

You'd need to give 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 people

1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 doses each

to make sure just one of them gets a dose with the magic ingredient.

Homeopathy isn't science. It's not even pseudo-science. It's a scam.

it's based on energy frequencies and It works in a different matter than conventional western medicine

And that's exactly the sort of nonsense they use to attract the gullible people they scam.

The only effect homeopathy has is the placebo effect. That's not to say the placebo effect isn't real, because it is. The placebo effect has been studied extensively and even in studies where people are told they are being given the placebo, the effect still manifests.

But just because the placebo effect is real, that does not mean homeopathy is not a scam. It is a scam.

And the reason it's a scam is because homeopaths tell their customers "it's based on energy frequencies and It works in a different matter than conventional western medicine" and other spurious nonsense, in order to sell them water that's supposedly imbued with magical curative properties.

Just because you arent aware of energy frequencies doesn't mean they don't exist. just like you aren't aware of scalar, micro, or ultraviolet waves but they do exist

Of course he's aware of them, he just can't see them with the naked eye. I'm assuming you believe ghosts too, since we have the same amount of evidence for them as the efficacy of homeopathy?

Homeopathic medicine [is] science

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

that is pretty unknown unless you get to advanced sciences.

"advanced sciences" seems to be a phrase you're using to exempt your magical memory water from actual scientific rigor.

reddit discussions go downhill and people just spout out crazy things now

If you want to try to defend homeopathy, you will have to begin by explaining why randomized controlled trials demonstrate that homeopathic "medicine" has no more impact on patients than placebo. That's the science. All of the arm-waving at possible mechanisms involving energy, vibration, memory or quantum mechanics have no standing unless you're trying to explain an observed phenomena, and these trials demonstrate that there is no phenomena to explain.

dealing with misinformed people is very draining

Yep.

But I don't dislike you for being misinformed. It's better to be misinformed than willfully ignorant. You, I hope, are capable of learning. The willfully ignorant are not going to change.

No amount of crying "shill" is going to magically render homeopathy legitimate. Sorry.

.....Yes becauses shill equals science, your argument holds no validity or intellect

homeopathy is pure bullshit.

in no way is it based on "energy frequencies"

that doesnt even make sense

Well why doesn't it make sense?

Because it's bullshit

Homeopathy: 1796. Modern quantum physics: 1925. Saying it is based on "energy frequencies" is functionally meaningless and was less meaningful in 1796 (there wasn't the wave theory of light then).

Medical practices contemporary with the development of homeopathy: leeching, blistering, bloodletting, electric shock, full frontal lobotomies, metal cock rings to prevent masturbation, purging to balance the "humors" including eating poison to induce vomiting and using opium.

It's also worth noting that. as James Randi points out, at the highest levels of dilution (X1,500) i.e. the "strongest", the ratio of the actual medicine to water is roughly the same as the ratio of a grain of rice to 2,000,000,000 times the mass of a sphere of water with a radius equal to the distance from the Sun to Pluto, i.e. your chances of getting even 1 molecule of medicine is basically zero. The common level of dilution is (X50) which is 1:100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Randi talk

Study after controlled study fails to show any consistent effect. On the plus side, there are no side effects because there are effectively no active ingredients. It's a mishmash of wishful thinking, placebo effect and lies.

Why don't they just let people choose on their own if they want it or not?

Nobody's banning homeopathic medicine. They are just want to sop false claims about it being effective, which has been repeatedly and decisively proven. If I fill empty pill containers with chalk dust and sell them for $100 dollars a pill by claiming they cure cancer, or anthrax, should that be legal? That's exactly what regulations try to stop the makers of homeopathic "medicine" from doing.

I find it amusing he answers the others, but not this comment. A comment that rationally shows how Homeopathy is utter and complete bunk.

Big Pharma is really trying to suppress any other forms of healthcare. It's insane the lengths they will go to.

Homeopathy isn't a form of healthcare, and big pharma accepts homeopathy as a supplement and is profiting enormously from it.

Seriously, it baffles me how clearly very smart people can buy into their bull shit

What an ironic statement

lol

It baffles me how people fall for the homeopathy scam.

BTW: I found a supplier for unicorn essence. Interested?

I work in the realm of FDA regulated sciences on a high level and i will say that in 20 years, i have never heard anyone give a crap about homeopathic medicine. If any of the large pharma companies did, they would find a way to patent it and profit from it, arguement invalid and illuminati confirmed.

? The illuminati confirmed that if homeopathy worked they would sell it, that doesn't make sense. The point I'm trying to make is that homeopathy isn't profitable and that's why it's suppressed by the mainstream. I should probably mention that those in the know are the ones that don't take pharmaceuticals because they know for a fact they are not used to cure.

It was a sarcastic remark. do you have half a brain? Everyone knows pharma isnt meant to cure, just treat. But we dont live in a communist country. Do you really expect people to help others at their own detriment financially? I have see alot of socialist tendencies in this sub and its all very misguided. Its not "suppressed" by the mainstream, its just not mainstream because its moronic and doesnt work. Go be a Reiki master on someone else's time.

Wow, helping people is going to bring your own detriment? That's really how you see things. Im going to wish you the best of luck to get out of wherever situation you are in if this is really how you see things.

No, im saying to ask people to basically be a charity. The only reason things get done in this world is because people can profit from it. Its the same reason that Socialism sounds great, but is a broken concept, you would literally have people going against everything that is ingrained in their DNA. Survival of the Fittest = ability to profit.

Socialism fails because of a concept called "The Tragedy of the Commons" - when people no longer can profit, then it wont get done. IE, People do things for one of two reasons, avoid pain or get some sort of gain. What you're talking about is some theory about people being unselfish and helping others and set aside their own gains to give to others, its unrealistic, childish and a YMCA trophy perspective.

No, im saying to ask people to basically be a charity. The only reason things get done in this world is because people can profit from it. Its the same reason that Socialism sounds great, but is a broken concept, you would literally have people going against everything that is ingrained in their DNA. Survival of the Fittest = ability to profit.

Socialism fails because of a co

LOL, im sorry but that is a load of bullshit right there. All the best things in the world are done by good people without expecting anything in return. compensation is just a by product of what you do to help others. When you focus on it returns alone you life ends up becoming meaningless IMHO.

Such as Electricity, Oil, Cars, Computers, etc? please explain yourself. When people stand to profit, they pursue it, very simple concept. When people give freely, they still GAIN something in return. a good feeling. so people still do all things for 1 of 2 reasons, try again.

I dont explain myself, my words speak for themselves.

You are incorrect about your assumptions because you are not looking deep enough. Most sane people dont invest their time for profit alone, its not that important. People pursue things because it gives their life meaning, profit is a BYPRODUCT of doing what you love and people compensate you because you help them give there own life meaning.

If you are pursuing profit alone, you got a problem.

Youre doing several things here.

"Improper use of personal anecdotes" - YOURE experience is not the majority. "Echo Chamber Fallacy" - the refusal to entertain anything other than your own opinion

"Circular Logic" - The religious favorite - 0 ACTUAL Evidence

False Dichotomy - belief there is only 1 right answer/perspective

Divine Fallacy - Just because you want it to be true, doesn't mean it is

Unfortunately for you, these are all logical issues that you keep drudging up

obviously you dont know enough about the conscious mind and motives to even be commenting on this. There are plenty of studies on this subject, it is a fact that people do not pursue profit alone we all have reason why we do things that go beyond just profits. whether you believe it or not is irreverent. You are not going to change public opinion by using empty observations. If you have not seen it yet you should have a look at "Century of the self" it lays all this out for you. people are driven by unconscious desires that have more to do with relationships with the people around them then they do with profit. Profit is just a form of energy that completes the cycle.

That is one sado way to think of things. Good luck guy!!!

You're mentally retarded please don't raise children

Take care of yourself guy

[deleted]

homeopathy is pure bullshit. in no way is it based on "energy frequencies" that doesnt even make sense

Why doesn't that even make sense

Because it doesn't, and asking him to prove that is like me asking you to prove you're not a ghost that became so crazy he grew back his body.

So many "its bullshit " comments and noone can tell me why haha

It's bullshit because double-blind placebo-controlled studies on homoeopathy shows us that homoeopathy is no better than placebos.

Yeh... But placebos generally work 30% of the time.

BUT HOW???

Seriously for fucks sake. If it works for two billion people then why deride it?

Are you talking about placebos? Placebos are great! People should use them where it makes sense.

If you're talking about homoeopathy then why bother with that bullshit if you can just take a sugar pill instead? Homoeopathy is just placebos with 'energy frequency' mumbo jumbo bullshit.

Placebos are great! But how do they work? All the best explanations are energy frequency mumbo jumbo bullshit.

Which is funny, because the whole universe is comprised of oscillating energies.

Edit: I think the mumbo jumbo bullshit is part of what makes placebos work.One doesn't hand a placebo to a patient and say, "here's a sugar pill that really does nothing but if you believe hard enough it will make you better. No, they hand them a sugar pill and call it medicine.

Although I did read about placebos sometimes still working even when know to be placebos.

So maybe the mumbo jumbo bullshit is necessary. I know homoeopathic remedies have worked for me on occasions too numerous to count. From poison ivy to bruises to headaches, nervousness, and bugbites- there's a lil homoeopathic vial of sugar pills for every little malady and I don't ever have to risk an allergic reaction to an active ingredient.

It's not bullshit to me. Perhaps I'm just gullible. Suggestible is the word I think hypnotists use. Energy healing is also something that requires a degree of mumbo jumbo but works literal wonders.

If you get AIDS, will you use actual doctor-prescribed medicine or will you take a homoeopathic vial instead?

Perhaps I'm just gullible.

I don't think so. I think you just don't understand modern physics enough to realise that homoeopathy is literally just the placebo effect.

At least I enjoy the distinction between the scientific fields of physics and medicine.

If you can tell me how the placebo effect works without using any mumbo jumbo then I'll admit that I don't know enough about AIDS to make an informed decision at this time.

We know a lot about the placebo effect. We know for example that it does not actually cure any diseases - it merely changes your subjective experience. For example you may feel like you have less pain but the underlying cause of the pain is not resolved. In other words it's all in your head. You want to feel better and so you feel better. But if you have a terminal illness then a placebo will not cure it.

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20091554

There you go - the placebo effect with no mumbo jumbo.

Why what?

Why Homeopathic treatment is such bullshit, but the stuff pharmaceutical company's shove down out throats is better

aside from proof?

Oh man great argument! I'm swayed! Look guys this this anonymous internet user claims there is proof! It's all settled now! Thanks so much for you soaring contribution to the discussion /s

pharmaceutical companies shove homeopathic treatments down throats, too. And it kills people: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/852778

It's not magical bs. It's just bs.

Looks like YouTube nuked your first link - do you know the name or have a back up perhaps?

Yes im looking for it now and they def. Took it down. Cant say it's that surprising. The shocking thing now is that they have a bunch of anti homeopathy videos up when you search. But I did find this really nice powerpoint rhat sums it up nicely, its longer than the first video was, but it informs you nicely https://youtu.be/klgUC7V0hKI

Awesome, thanks! Will check it out soon

You have to love /r/conspiracy. The title of post is "It appears certain things are not allowed to be discussed" and then zero upvotes but 80 comments ROFL

Trust me, there was little to no discussion here rolf?

you poor, poor soul...

There is nothing wrong with mysticism itself, people attach it to bad things though their own ignorance and fear.

This is the context of the convo

Because it's bullshit

Yes make sure you buy the right sugar pill

what

I find it amusing he answers the others, but not this comment. A comment that rationally shows how Homeopathy is utter and complete bunk.

Awesome, thanks! Will check it out soon