Yes Putin is extremely rational at least he seems that way. Over ten years of hunting down beating and killing every single reporter who not only would write critical stores about him and United Russia lackeys. I am sure he does seem quite a hero in the international press. The website you guys seem to love is nothing more then a mouth piece for him and his party.

Why is this the response every time someone highlights something good Putin says or does? We get it, just because someone supports a few words of his doesn't mean they support everything he has ever done or will ever do.

If this were how discourse was supposed to go you couldn't mention anything about the states without reminders of how fucked up the CIA have been throughout history. But we get it, it doesn't have to be mentioned every time the US does something we agree with. It's not moving the discussion forwards at all.

Same could be said about the media, I'm skeptical of all major media outlets, but I can't stand how some people here in the US quickly label RT and Aljazeera as state propaganda (which i know they are) but then turn around and gobble up everything CNN, NBC, and or FOX has to say as if it were holy teachings. Same shit different smell.

Amen

The double standards are so frustrating/annoying, especially on this sub!!

That's not the sub's sentiment.

There are many vocal users here who are paid to harass and forum slide.

We have words and names you cannot say yet you know exist.

Never forget this.

I don't. I am new to this.

We all had to learn to swim sometime.

Welcome aboard.

Lol there's nothing you can't say on this forum. The DoD and DHS watch reddit like a two-headed hawk there's no secrets on here.

Calling people the s-word is a bannable offense.

Oh hahaha i forgot about that, never-mind carry on my bad.

What if they are a sword? Or a sword swallower

How about squatters? I think I'll be using this term from now on; can mean people who visit/settle places/subs/forums where they don't belong, or an Israeli squatter who occupies land not their own.

There are many vocal users here who are paid to harass and forum slide.

Do you just make this up as you go or do you have a shred of proof to back that up?

Mb many of them just say what they think? Mb they are not paid but actually believe on what they write?

There are many vocal users here who are paid to harass and forum slide.

What? Really? Evidence?

While I typically enjoy this comment (demand sources!), linking to users who are shills is forbidden.

Could you pm them to me, I would be interested to see the evidence of your claims.

Just keep an eye out.

They're the anti-conspiracy posters in a conspiracy forum.

I feel like I can trust each country's state media on most things as long as they aren't about there own country. I.e. I trust RT for most things not related directly to Russia. AJ for most things not related to Qatar and US media CNN, MSNBC for most things not directly related to US. It seems like you can get a fairly accurate picture filtering through a combo of it all. And lots of other reading from internet sources as well.

and US media CNN, MSNBC for most things not directly related to US.

CNN and MSNBC are pretty much horrible for everything. Completely disregarding any ideas about bias or propaganda they are frequently wrong on many issues.

Mainstream US news is absolutely biased and there is a lot of propaganda, but the extent is debatable. Fox news for instance is highly critical of the current administration. And many media's sources were critical of the Bush administration at times. Sure they are heavily influenced by the US government and their own corporate agenda.

rt however is straight up propaganda.

All of this is ultimately irrelevant because people should always question and point out sources with known ulterior motives.

Don't play into the whataboutism. If rt is bad we should question it and if CNN is bad we should question it as well.

Rt is straight up propaganda. Don't eat their bullshit just because US propaganda also exists.

(Edit: Since people are completely missing the point of my post. I will reiterate. It does not matter if CNN or FOX are propaganda. The discussion is about RT. RT is 100% propaganda. If you don't read Fox new because you think it is propaganda but are happy reading RT you are an idiot. )

Fox news and CNN are propaganda they push imaginary narratives and toe party lines. There's no fundamental difference between Russia Today and CNN. Sure one is corporate the other is State run but the way I see corporations are mini-States and States are large scale, permanent corporations.

The difference is in the agenda. The corporate news is effectively propaganda, but their primary goal is making money. The agendas they push are all secondary to the bottom line.

Rt has a clear agenda from the onset and it pursues it coherently. It is apparently working by the looks of reddit. Even on /r/conspiracy people are just jumping at the bit to drink the Kool-aid.

Dude, you're being very un-dude. FOX is straight-up propaganda. Say the truth, and shame the devil. Please make an argument that it's not.

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Mainstream media is not the only media out there. There are plenty of other sources of news that are much better than either rt or fox or cnn. There is absolutely no fucking reason to read rt if you are criticizing cnn and fox.

[deleted]

Everyone is free to watch or read whatever they want.

RT has a lot of facts. It's propaganda with underlying truths you have to dig out.

In actual studies on media bias Al Jazeera has consistently been found to be one of the least-biased news sources in the world.

I'm in no way anti Aljazeera, I made the comment more to point out the double standards Americans have towards Aljazeera and RT.

I honestly will watch Aljazeera, RT, and or PressTV from time to time.

Fo' sho'. If I recall correctly, AJ was found by one study to have the highest ratio of popularly-perceived bias to actual bias of any news source under the study's purview. Of course, it was studying Americans' media perceptions shortly after the 2001 WTC attacks, so maybe the popular perception has mellowed in the interim. But as they say when playing cards at church camp, "I doubt it."

http://www.npr.org/2013/07/10/200823466/al-jazeera-staffers-quit-over-alleged-bias-in-egypt-coverage

https://www.rt.com/news/al-jazeera-loses-staff-335/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism

I'd LOVE to see your study.

This was a cite in an extemp deck seven years ago or so and I simply don't care enough to find it.
But I believe in you.

RT and aljeezera receives state funding, and people on this site shit on Fox, CNN, and NBC all the time.

Don't you mean that r/republicans shit on NBC, r/Democrats shit on Fox, and so on.

Yes. People all over the political spectrum hate the mainstream media on Reddit. No one defends them when they fuck up.

Aljazeera is state propaganda? How so?

From Wikipedia:

Aljazeera and JSC (Jazeera Satellite Channel), is a Doha-based state-funded broadcaster owned by the Al Jazeera Media Network, which is partly funded by the House of Thani, the ruling family of Qatar.

Is there any station that is pure? I think aljazeera is leagues ahead of a lot of stations as far as content so I have trouble accepting they are in the same bed as most media news sources. Got any suggestions? I have been looking for a solid news source for a while. I just downloaded Associated press.

I watch RT, Aljazeera, and PressTV, but I take everything they say with a grain of salt like any other media outlet, and try to research the issue on my own if possible (usually is)

Exactly what I was going to reply with.

State run media sounds so scary but it is essentially what BBC is in England, CBC in Canada and in a way PBS and NPR.

Read Reuters and AP, most unbiased news sources around.

Read Reuters

unbiased

Funny.

Most propaganda sounding articles are often times just straight copies from reuters

No, their used as a source but the language is chances. Reuters does not even let their journalists hue the word Terrorist unless they are directly quoting someone who said the word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters

"but then turn around and gobble up everything CNN, NBC, and or FOX has to say as if it were holy teachings."

I have never ever seen anyone here on this sub linking or sourcing CNN, FOX or NBC in anything. You are making this up.

I said "people within the USA" not within this sub specifically.

Alright I read that incorrectly.

at least they call it Russia Today

you could also rename FOX to RepublicansTV etc...

You could rename MSNBC (DemSNBC) and CNN (CIA).

Weak

Lol

Sure didn't see like it when they put on a circus also known as a debate recently.

It's on page 14, section 3 of the shill handbook.

yeah for example something that the world seems to forget is that US has actively participated in the genocide of the native american population or you know the whole legal slavery thing that went on until the middle of the 19th century or you know the complete and utter racism towards black people that went on until the 80's without punishment.

They also had concentration camps for the Japanese which they renamed to interment camps to make themselves seem better in WW2.

East Timorese Genocide, propping up fascist dictatorships in Iran, Iraq, Singapore, South Vietnam, S. korea, Chile, Mexico etc etc

The hypocrisy of America knows no boundaries

also mind control experiments in the 50's. Oh and lets not forget the nazi and japanese war criminals who were given quite comfortable lives in exchange for their research.

Anyway that is the thing somehow US has managed to get everyone to forget their sins and focus on russian ones. Also the depression during the 30's in america also led to mass starvation but somehow only soviet union gets branded a mass-murderer for the starvation during 1932-1934. Which granted was partially caused by soviet "managers" who simply were not even remotely ready to do their jobs.

Wait your comparing deliberate famine and mass starvation to the great depression?

It could be argued that all depressions/recessions since the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 were deliberate mechanisms to funnel wealth to the elite and concentrate their financial power.

no, also it wasn't entirely deliberate, it was the complete and utter stupidity of people who came into power and inability to communicate, that is how the food shortage started, then when they understood that they are short on food they sent soldiers to collect it back and understandably it became even worse. mass starvation occured not just in ukraine during that time but in russia too and starvation has been quite frequent in russia before the revolution. What I am saying is that everyone seems to remember the great depression as a bad time yet none seem to blame the people who caused it through the crash of the stock market, much like the 2008 recently, the bankers were rather poorly managing banks in UK and yet they still got million pound bonuses even as the banks were going bancrupt and on life support from the government

I don't think that anyone has forgotten that America committed genocide against the Native Americans or enslaved an entire race of people because of the color of their skin, but using that as an example is like saying everyone forgot about how Stalin committed the mass murder of the Russian people. No, I don't think anyone has forgotten that either.

yeah but every time a conversation about soviet union comes up they immediately go there like that is the only thing that defines it

How dare you try to hold a civil, logical discussion on reddit. For shame man. .......that seems to be the underlying thought here today.

Why is this the response every time someone highlights something good Putin says or does?

He's Russian, your mortal enemy.

I like him too.

Why is this the response every time someone highlights something good Putin says or does?

Because if this were done in the United States, people would go absolutely crazy on this sub, yet all we're met with when Putin does it is just a long, awkward, sycophantic silence. The hypocrisy is absolutely nauseating.

When a post seems extra jewish, go through the post history, it's usually full of JIDF jewry. It's always been in the jews' interests to pit white countries against each other. First they had us annihilate the only political system that succeeded in resisting them, then they divided the white world in two with communism, now they're completely boldfaced about getting us to hate Russia for no fucking reason at all. They want the gentiles to kill each other off. The sooner we get the jews to leave us the fuck alone, the better off the rest of humanity will be for it.

Thank you. This is starting to become a major issue on reddit in general.

Also, who knows if it's him killing the journalists.

All the CIA would have to do is whack whoever writes a critical piece about him and then we assume it's Putin doing that and the Western press can go on and on about how anti free press Putin is.

Balance. Some people don't know any of that an its important information.

Both of you make sense

If this were how discourse was supposed to go you couldn't mention anything about the states without reminders of how fucked up the CIA have been throughout history.

They aren't talking about stuff from 30 years ago. Putin has done all this shit in recent history.

And it really wouldn't be unreasonable to bring up the CIA and other major US fuck ups when you are discussing the US.

"Why is this the response every time someone highlights something good Putin says or does?"

That is because this is the response given by people exhibiting binary thinking. They think of the world on only black and white terms, so for example, Putin is either completely bad or completely good. It's no use getting mad at them; it's futile.

It's mentioned because it is important to consider that he has ulterior motives. And yeah it absolutely should get brought up every time similar us stories come up when the exact same people are involved.

The problem with reading known propaganda and trying to find the truth is the when the propaganda lines up with your own prejudices you will still eat it up.

The stuff that's been going on with putin is a great example of this. He is saying stuff that feeds into commonly held beliefs and is patially true, but he is using this to cover or distract from his own shady actions.

Take a step back and look at the facts of what has happened in the past few months. All Russia has done is step in to prop up one of their regional allies. They have been almost exclusively bombing Syrian rebels and spend much less time on isis. While he is positioning himself as the guy coming in to save the day he has done little to actually combat the threat all his rhetoric is against. It is just really stupid how all of reddit is full of threads praising him for stepping up to combat isis when the vast majority of bombings are still run by the us.

Seriously. What you said is exactly on point. Putin has almost exclusively been bombing Syrian and Turkmen rebels since he got involved in the region.

[removed]

Rule 1. Removed.

Thank you for the feedback, resubmitted without slurs.

Why is this the response every time someone highlights something good Putin says or does?

When it's on /r/conspiracy

Exactly. And the fact that this is an anti-establishment centric sub and Putin is one of the few national leaders who will speak out about the establishment, it only makes sense that his words are posted here pretty often.

It does not mean that everyone on this sub is in love with him or that everyone on this sub approves of everything he does. Obviously.

President of Russia

Anti-establishment

Choose one.

What if Nato is the establishment?

He could be both

I'm talking about his words, which are what is shared on this sub. Not his actions or his intent.

He might be a snake in the grass but at the moment he's more or less the only one who is speaking up against the establishment.

But if you know this man to be a killer and a liar, why would you support any of his words ?

Because I can hold a thought and judge it in my head independent of other thoughts. It's not that hard.

Ever heard this phrase?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it

There's no need to be scared of his words. It's ok. they won't hurt you.

Ever heard this phrase?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it

Shameless /r/C_S_T plug. This is the motto of the sub.

Because I can hold a thought and judge it in my head independent of other thoughts. It's not that hard.

We're talking about Americans here (I'm American)

An ad hominem can be rational, it is not always a fallacy I just wanted to point that out

What is the moral compass are you using? In what universe does Putin's actions (the ones we're now discussing) seem immoral or wrong. In what universe does our actions (the ones we're now discussing) seem moral or right? In your analogy is Putin or America like Charles Manson? I'm confused.

Maniacs, killers and rapists, they are full of fun stories I'm sure, but sadly I prefer to stay away.

And why wouldnt I stay away? If this person can maim and kill, his thought process is obviously so twisted, that he can allow himself to do these acts. Do I really want to listen to anything else this twisted mind has to offer ?

If he said "2+2=4", would you deny it? When you're right, you're right, regardless of what you've done in the past. Also, if you're going to refuse to acknowledge anything a 'killer' says as truth, what politicians do you trust? Just about all of them are linked to some sort of killing in some way. You could argue that every US politician is, considering they're part of a MIC that travels the globe killing indiscriminately. So do you just not listen to what any politician has to say?

First of all, in response to Aeonion - I am not in CIA or FBI, i do not want to be preventing anything, I'll leave it to other people who are trained to deal with those kind of individuals.

In response to whyd_you_kill_doakes - if he would be saying 2+2=4 then people wouldn't care about him and what he had to say. But it's only because he is saying that 2+2=5 and people find it interesting and start siding with him on that for whatever own reasons they have. But if this mans thinking also allows him to kill and maim, do you really want to believe him on non-trivial issues like this ?

So you're saying that Putin's claim of ISIS being supported by a nation's military is false? Do you have a source to refute that? Because there are plenty of sources that say he's right. If you don't think the US is arming and funding ISIS, you have either a very short or very selective memory. The US has been funding and arming groups for quite some time now. That's how the US has been waging war in the ME and South America post-WW2.

Let me run this by you. The US has openly stated they are arming and funding the Free Syrian Army as they are currently Assad's main opposition in the Syrian Civil War. Many members of ISIS are also part of the Free Syrian Army. How about Al Qaeda? Hell, there's a youtube clip of Hillary saying the US created Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda supposedly kicked a bunch of dudes out for being too radical. Where did those guys go? ISIS.

No, that's not what I'am saying at all. I am saying that it's probably best to believe sources, that aren't known throughout the world to be liars and killers.

And if you found multiple credible sources that say what you just mentioned and you agree with them and IF Putin then says the same thing as those credible sources, do we start worshipping Putin for thinking the same way and even crediting him with discovery of that information, or do we say - hey, this madman got it right, but fuck him anyway, cause he's a killer and a liar.

Then don't turn on the news. Also we are kinda anonymous here, you could be talking to anyone, so just leave the internet in general.

Leave society.

yes you want, because these kind of people will tell you how do they think and how to they act which will teach you a lot on how to prevent it.

Read my lips, "No new taxes." "I promise to remove all troops from Iraq and Afghanistan." Obama drone strikes and kill lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposition_Matrix

What was the point about killers and liars?

Like Obama? Drones, torture, destabilizing nations, fake revolutions, on-going wars, military spending as if at war, wanted to attack Syria with 11% support?

RT has been great over the last 4-5 years. Recently it's fair to take a grain of salt, but for some people the simple expanded coverage is what draws people there. For all I know CNN is spinning the story as if Russia was attacking Turkey and it was a self defense situation.

It's really annoying when I link an RT article to some idiot, and then I have to relink from various other news sources because said idiot is just waiting to pull the RT card.

How about talking about the actual issue at hand which is governments actively supporting terrorists who are fighting in Syria.

Turkey had no place to shoot down a Russian jet that obviously was conducting operations inside Syria.

Only if you remove the context of the Syrian conflict would it make sense for them to act hastily. But since we know what we do and everybody knows they're in Syria attacking terrorists, it's a moot point.

You don't understand how much power Putin has in Russia. Lets put things in perspective, he's been in power for 16 years. He told the Russian oligarchs not to participate in politics at the beginning of the last millenium, what he actually meant was "do not support the opposition." The main opposition leader to Putin was high profile assassinated last year. Putin remained the de facto head of government even when he was only supposed to be the premier (2008-2012) he essentially never left Presidential office. Putin has maintained a steady 70-90% approval rating throughout his tenure. Only dictators and dictator-like presidents ever get those numbers (FDR, Washington). Under Putin Russia has regained its autonomy from the Western nations. Yeltsin was essentially a western installed puppet president who allowed Organized crime and the oligarchs to openly run the nation. It is suspected that between $20-200 billion has been stolen by Putin and his coterie since 1999. Putin has engaged in 5 offensive operations in the last decade.

The man is a modern, Hitler 2.0. This time with no racism or open genocide.

I'm not even *bashing him (other than pointing out he is a dictator). Its just astonishing to watch a neo-fascist pretend to be a Liberal Socialist.

*that doesn't mean i support totalitarianism just that its funny to watch him work

The fact that you would liken putin to 'hitler 2.0' is pretty bold.

You'd have to wonder if America would be better with a strong leader instead of a fake election process in which the people are made to believe they're choosing, but there's really people behind the scenes deciding on policy and nearly everything.

Yeah i don't want a Tyrant running america. That's why i liken him to Hitler, he's a charismatic, scary, idealistic psychopath. I would not want him governing a Walmart much less the most powerful nation on Earthz

He's no more tyrannical than the forces running america, is the point. No one gets into power, or even gets to live if they're a serious threat to us interests.

The people who are behind Putin, behind Hillary and Obama. Those people own the banks and own the shares in the United States corporation. Its no different in China, Russia or US they're all just functions of the one power.

Trump 4 benevolent dictator! He must know what's best, he's rich and confident!

Why do you label FDR and Washington as dictators?

"Dictator-Like" what FDR did almost caused a coup in the political establishment of America. A large number of Military, Industrial and Banking interests resented him thoroughly for doing so. He also expanded the US government and the power of the Presidency immensely. Washington was practically a military governor. He had the full loyalty of the Federalists, the Armies and wealthy landowners in Virginia. some of his actions were not so democratic and on more than one occasion he contemplated the benefits of Tyrannical rule.

Ronald Reagan had those kind of approval numbers. Was he a dictator?

No, his Vice President and the CIA ran that regime. Reagan was a puppet

What do you base that on?

The secret wars that were run nonstop throughout the 80's the huge amount of corruption in that administration. The fact that HW became president after Reagan. Really all the president's are puppets so to try and say one or the other has more agency is kind of misguided. The FDR administration took more power for itself than most other regimes.

It's really annoying when I link an RT article to some idiot, and then I have to relink from various other news sources because said idiot is just waiting to pull the RT card.

So... Link from the real news first?

if the real news has the same story as the news you're calling fake, which one is fake?

The one that also runs tons of propaganda for the state, probably. Oooh such a hard question, practically a koan

If a crazy ranting hobo on the street corner turns out to be right once, do you listen to him every time? Because CUSTARD LIZARDS IN MY OCULAR NERVE

"Real news"

As linked by a previous contributor. Educate yourself.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5

Your post comes off kind of cunty. I was alluding to the fact that it's now legal for them to use propaganda in the states... this guy was nice enough to confirm and post a source.

"Educate yourself" by..... reading a link that confirms something I mentioned in another post? I'm confused. If you weren't trying to be a cunt. Good day. If you're just a cunt, fuck off.

The one that also runs tons of propaganda for the state

Oh, you mean the New York Times...

It's really annoying when I link an RT article to like some idiot

Totally discounting any news source is ignorant.

looks to see subreddit oh, this is conspiracy? Well fuck.. I'm actually kinda surprised any cunts here would play the ol' RT card.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/11/24/us-mideast-crisis-syria-turkey-idUSKBN0TD0IR20151124#cgDMdHLJuqqcfi3r.97

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34913173

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates

At least save the RT ass wiping for situations in which it's a clear 1 sided article. If everybody else is reporting the same shit, what are you even doing aside from making others point out how retarded it is to shit on RT for everything?

US media actively pushes propaganda 24/7. Didn't they recently end regulation of using propaganda against the US public?

US media actively pushes propaganda 24/7. Didn't they recently end regulation of using propaganda against the US public?

Yes.

http://www.businessinsider.com/ndaa-legalizes-propaganda-2012-5

Note the reporter cited in the first paragraph.

Right? It's hilariously ironic that a community of conspiracy theorists have such an unabashed love affair with a man who otherwise represents basically everything they hate.

I think you're projecting here. Someone can praise an individual word or action of Putin without being in a "love affair" with his previous acts or current position.

Look at the history of the CIA. Do you bring that up every time someone praises the US for some good they did? Then why do you feel the need to do the same with Putin?

If reddit is obsessed with anything it's stereotyping Russians and talking trash about Putin.

It is strange when talking to those of you who get a stiffy at just mentioning the name Ronald Reagan. But, Putin aside, how do you defend these actions? If this were a US jet and Americans being shot while parachuting and our rescue helicopter blown up what would be our response?

Horseshit. If you look in my history you'll see I've been highly critical of putin. Mainly the fact he never puts his money where his mouth is.... until now. Unless you're a fan of isis, how can you not be?

but they are not a mouthpiece for the Russian government

Are you high? RT's editor-in-chief is the exact same person as the editor-in-chief of Russia's official state news agency (like Voice of America, but Russia). You don't have to connect the dots, because there is just the one dot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiya_Segodnya

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margarita_Simonyan

RT has many shows that aren't run by KGB operatives. Max Keiser for example is not toe a Russian line.

Fair enough. VOA does real news, sometimes, too.

I mean there is "watching RT news" and then "watching shows that are on RT". There are tons of quality shows on RT that get linked to on the sites that I go to. I don't really watch any news channels loops though so I'm not 100% sure what goes on there. I'll say that RT is really great for picking up disaffected high profile Westerners and giving them their own show to say whatever the fuck that they want to say. Also, in reality Russia is basically not shitting on Westerners or adversely affecting their life so there isn't a whole lot to be pissed off about there (and trust me that Ukrainians are more than enough capable of fucking their own lives up and they don't need Russians for that). In many ways I see that RT is helping the West out by giving some of its great people a large voice to promote their ideas. Whether or not Russia itself takes any of this to heart is not of huge relevance to me. Now about Max Keiser for example I don't see how letting him run his show that exposes the huge fraud in the Western banking industry as being detrimental to Western society and actually I think the opposite. Western elites are currently belligerent enough that they are a threat to the common citizens of their country as well as foreign elites and that is where the sort of unspoken alliance begins.

Also, I'm 35 and from California and look at how much shittier California has become in my lifetime and how much better Russia has become. We are each born on a point and the position matters but the quality and integrity of those people alive at that moment is defined by the first and second derivative of their actions. This doesn't mean that you necessarily want to be in another place just because it is improving from a low position but I'm not convinced that a place that was once great and is in decline means that all of those people are great just because they were born in that moment to inherit and then squander wealth and freedom.

The US [...] ranks 46th

And not to get too far off the point, the Russian Federation is at 148th in the same survey.

I don't love RT, but they are not a mouthpiece for the Russian government

You just have absolutely no idea. You're clueless.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/18/sara-firth-resigns-russia-today-lies-anchor_n_5598815.html

http://www.stopfake.org/en/russia-s-top-100-lies-about-ukraine/

Those are a few examples, or you could read pretty much anything in this article. Totally independent, except funded by the government, in the same building as government-run media, sharing the same executives, founded by people in the Kremlin, but yes totally independent corporation!

Nevertheless, when it comes to Russian Media, the most egregious lies are the ones which are portrayed on the Russian-language channels and feeds which are broadcast domestically or to neighboring countries. RT is specifically put together to put out a plausible, hip counter-culture vibe that does tend to appeal to the /r/conspiracy crowd - which doesn't necessarily mean it's correct or complete reporting.

Russia has always been skilled at foreign influence and propaganda. Did you think they would simply give up?

I could provide you with many examples

Look, you can't play this game of "I don't think they lie, but its OK if they do because somebody else did...or at least I think they did..." The two are different things. If you want to launch an assault on US media for being false with examples, go ahead.

But that doesn't defend RT, which is a fully-funded propaganda arm in pretty much every way. Understand?

So just curious then, can you name me a news organization that you feel is unbiased, totally free, correct and complete?

nope. just observe reality.

the bottom line is that I can't witness something that's happening on the other side of the world, therefore I must take someones word for it. it would be nice if it's someone I trust, but the only people I trust are those who are in my life, near me and who I care for, or at least have enough contact with to know I can trust (or trust to know when they are lying to me.)

everything else with a grain of salt - which doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to run to swallow what somebody else says when they tell me that the mainstream is all lies.

they seem to have a pretty robust, fact filled discussion

how do you know they're facts? because they sound good? I think the talking head game is bullshit on any channel. it's a format which is setup so as to make you feel like you're part of a 'roundtable discussion' while opinions are shoveled down your throat.

You are full of it. Here you are claiming you take everything with a grain of salt yet you make hundreds of posts claiming the sources you link as facts. You still believe Turkey has been supporting ISIS from day one along with other numerous falsehoods.

You please people with your 'neutral' attitude but then go back to your initial stance the next day.

Sure, easy. It's the news that I read. The news you read is wrong, because it's not the one I read.

How about PBS Newshour? They're totally balanced!

(i always lol when I see that big commercial at the beginning of every PBS Newshour for their sponsor...er, I mean "underwriter" -- BAE Systems.

Lol Russia insider there's just as bad as RT

http://www.forbes.com/sites/peterhimler/2015/03/10/russia-hacking-the-news/

http://www.stopfake.org/en/is-russia-insider-sponsored-by-a-russian-oligarch-with-the-ties-to-the-european-far-right/

Only conspiracy here is your undying devotion to an authoritarian despot.

seriously. The rightwing has so much hatred for Obama despite zero terror attacks since in office (versus that one time when Bush "kept us safe") that they gush, fawn and drool over ever word Putin speaks.

I just can't comprehend the Putin love from the right. Shirtless Putin, Warlord Putin. It's insane. He's their One D.

Might want to pad those corners so the edges don't cut you.

So original. You think of that one all by yourself there champ? YAAAAWNNNN.

I don't love RT, but they are not a mouthpiece for the Russian government and many of the journalist there have certainly earned the respect of many

That's good for a coffee spray out of the mouth in the morning!

[deleted]

The russian government is hostile towards the press

Putin sits in front of 1200 reporters from around the world in an open question/answer format every year and you are saying he is hostile? Show me a western power government that does the same.

Of course you can't point to any "direct" evidence that Putin himself had anyone killed. I preface this because I'm looking at all of the journalists in America who have recently died suspiciously after saying something negative about the government or something positive about its enemies, foreign and domestic, ie Snowden. Michael Hastings and Andrew Breibart come to mind. Or the four journalists that all died within 24 hours of each other: Bob Simon, David Carr, Bob Hagar, and Ned Colt. If it walks like a war-zone, sounds like a war-zone, then maybe it's a war-zone. Thank you Statecensor for pointing that out.

Snowden is still alive. Breitbart died from coronary heart disease. He even talked about it years earlier. Bob Simon was killed by terrorists even as the US mounted a search and rescue for him.

But keep sucking Putin dick.

Snowden is still alive? Yes, because of Putin. Dude.

Did you ever think that after riding the short bus to school every day you'd someday be able to put a real sentence together? Gold star my friend.

Breibart, hastings, etc. Happens here too, we just don't get to see it in the news.

Wow are you stupid

I do think it's wise to be skeptical of him. I think he tells it like it is when it benefits him to do so. Or else he would spin like everyone else.

Exactly.

Seriously. The funniest part of this is that he's desperately trying to deflect with this. He told his population that he was starting this operation in Syria to keep Russia safe. Since then he's lost an airliner with hundreds of his citizens on it, and now one of his advanced bomber jets with its crew. These 'stabbed in the back' comments are him trying to deflect any criticism, put the blame on others, that would naturally come because his policy has backfired so spectacularly.

Nice CNN taking point, you clearly picked that up somewhere as I heard that argument several times today.

Life pro-tip: if a lot of international policy analysts come to a consensus on something, its because it's most likely true and apparent to experts of different backgrounds.

Right, so Russia's plane coming down is Putin's fault for combating ISIS. Following that logic, who's to blame for the Paris attack?

>implying Putin is fighting ISIS when the vast majority of Russian airstrikes are against other rebel groups.

implying Putin is fighting ISIS when the vast majority of Russian airstrikes are against other rebel groups.

This is beside the point. The point is that media sources are blaming a terrorist attack against Russian citizens on Russia's military actions in Syria, but seemingly fail to see the irony in not blaming attacks against french citizens and citizens of other western countries on the West's military actions in those same regions against similar groups.

When Russians are attacked it's because of Putin's failed foreign policy. When Western European's and American's are attacked it's because Islamists hate our freedom.

Edit: I'm referring to the downed plane in Egypt, not the fighter jet downed by Turkish forces.

I should add that I have no love for the Russian Government, or Vladimir Putin. His administration seems just as corrupt and opposed to freedom as any other, and in many cases worse. However one government being bad doesn't somehow make another worse.

You idiots actually reproach others for comparing different sources. Yes, I will listen to multiple sources and use common sense to weed out right and wrong.
You guys are slaves at heart. RT is in no way less credible than the billionaire-owned western media.

Putin is extremely strategic.

This is a Person who went from the top of the KGB to systematically take over his country while keeping it Kosher enough to not get too much attention from others.

The website you guys seem to love is nothing more then a mouth piece for him and his party.

And every piece of media you see on the West is a mouth piece of your respective governments. The trick is to read both respective mouth pieces and find the common truths and reverse engineer applicable scenarios.

You will never know what really happened but you will have a pretty good guess.

It's a quote. It can be verified.

Putin has lots of blood on his hands, and maybe he is just another pawn, but at least he tells the truth in matters related to ISIS. Anyone with their eyes and ears open knows that the terrorists centered in Syria were funded, armed, and trained by the West. There is a paper trail leading back to the Pentagon and CIA.

People are tired of being lied to. That's why they embrace Putin.

Ah, so that's why he's been bombing the shit out of the FSA instead of ISIS for months now, because TRUTH!!!

Wait, what?

FSA are the same terrorists and militants in ISIS. They fight for whomever pays them.

You should probably try getting your information from some more informed sources if this is truly what you believe. You're so far off base that we simply can not discuss this further in any rational way...and that is taking into consideration that we're on /r/conspiracy here.

Where do you get your unbiased sources from?

You should read what the DIA said in 2012. The links goes to a blog post about the subject, with links from there to copies of the original documents. In DIA's own words, US policy of supporting militant groups to overthrow Assad's gov't in Syria would produce a Frankenstein terrorist haven in western Iraq and eastern Syrian. Same as Al-Qaeda began as a US-funded, CIA-backed group of militants recruited to fight the Russians in Afghanistan. And that's exactly what happened.

You should probably try getting your information from some more informed sources

Where else should I get my information? CNN? Fox? They don't even acknowledge that these documents exist and just continue pushing the standard talking points that ISIS grew out of the Iraqi/Sunni insurgency. It's a lie. ISIS was created by US policy. We funded, armed, and trained them.

By the way, the documents were confirmed by the former head of the DIA, Gen. Michael Flynn. He gave a televised interview.. But, you know, it was televised on Al-Jazeera so don't give it any credit.

Can you show me where I have said or inferred that the US was/is not complicit in the creation of ISIS? The US's policies and actions in the middle east are most definitely a huge cause of the shit show we are currently experiencing without a shadow of a doubt.

Putin lies to his people just like leaders in the West lie to their people. Just depends where you live and whose lies you find easier to believe

Putin is at least telling the truth about ISIS. It's not a homegrown terrorist group. For example, have you ever wondered where poor terrorists got all those new Toyota trucks? From the State Department. Or how about all those military weapons? From the Pentagon. Or who they sold oil to? Western businesses. This is not speculation, it is documented.

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. ISIS is composed largely -- at least among the commanding ranks -- of the same people that took down the gov't in Libya. Then they got to Syria -- thanks to the Western powers that aided and abetted them -- and did exactly what the DIA predicted: expand into Iraq and morph into the terrorist group they always were.

I know America created al-Quaeda and Osama bin Laden, but I'm not convinced they created Daesh at this time. I thought America gave the Iraqis military weapons and gear and then after the Americans left, the soldiers abandoned their posts when they were overrun by Daesh and the terrorists just acquired a bunch of shiny new toys. Also I'm sure they stole some stuff from Syria. Plus the terrorists receive funding from many Gulf states.

And yes there's a fine line between terrorist and freedom fighter. Like how Putin is supposed to be in Syria to help the world get rid of Daesh "terrorists" but instead he has also been attacking the Syrian "freedom fighters."

Read what I wrote in another reply. Daesh is a direct creation of US policy. I give links that prove it. The information is publicly available and verified many times over by the highest sources.

It's part of the reason why, in this matter, I think Mr. Putin has two legs to stand on. The truth is plain as day but isn't being acknowledged.

Daesh is armed, funded, and trained directly as a result of US policy. The Saudis, Turks, and Israelis might be doing a lot of the dirty work, but they are spending American dollars and under the direction of American intelligence and the Pentagon.

Moderate rebel, terrorist, fsa, isis, al-Qaeda, etc who gives a shit. They are all rebels destabilizing an ally of Russia. Russia has the right to bomb the fuk out of all those rebels. More power to them. I agree with international law, and with Russia's fight against terrorism. I do not agree with the wests meddling in yet another innocent country. Fuck Saudi Arabia and Turkey.

For those who are not familiar, where is the list of reporters killed by Putin? Thank you for your help.

So really similar to American press then?

so you're telling me US media isn't controlled?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jH8dejYGa5A

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxlLO2zMYKQ

I'm not sure why anyone would expect Russia to behave in any other way. Russia is smart and it protects its interests. Europe and the US are always characterizing Russia as a threat when it is always the US and its allies provoking Russia. It makes no sense for the US to be messing around in Syria - but it makes great sense for Russia to be there. its basically on its back door. RT may be a mouthpiece for the Russian government but take that to mean that it tells the truth about the US and covers things the American media intentionally blacks out. I could care less how it reports on domestic Russian things. I'm not in Russia so it doesn't matter. But it will tell me what my own government is doing where US news would otherwise just obscure or ignore the story.

Kind of like how the New York Times is a mouthpiece for the west?

Really? There are plenty of anti-Putin stories, just not in Russia.

Over ten years of hunting down beating and killing every single reporter who not only would write critical stores(sic) about him and United Russia lackeys

Ridiculous disinfo. If that were true there wouldn't be Russian edition BBC Reuters etc reporters in Moscow constantly writing negative press about him. Many of the slain reporters were also critical of Dagestani and Chechen crime lords, and when they get killed by the same mafia or crime groups, the western press is so quick to pin it on Putin without even mentioning that maybe it was a result of the reporter dealing in dangerous waters in those regions.

Especially when you consider the tiny reach these reporters had to begin with, Putin had way more to lose from them being murdered and being blamed for it rather than them continuing to exist and reporting negative things about him.

Believe it or not, Putin is not the only person in Russia, there are many criminal groups including Islamic ones near those aforementioned border regions that all have their own feuds and problems with the press.

That sounds like typical propaganda for regime change as used on Gaddafi and Assad, have you verified these stories of Putin murdering reporters? Even if true which I doubt, it's nothing compared to the genocide perpetrated by the criminals running our western governments.

Even Hitler said some true/correct things from time to time (not on Jews, extermination, etc). Past history does not relegate truth when it is presented, but it does provide a reason to scrutinize what they say.

It's confirmedm. Putin is the antichrist

Ooooo! How much an hour is it to right propaganda like yours?

Who do I contact for a job?

Lel. Libturd butthurt that their media brainwashing doesn't work on based Putin. Go suck on Obama's dick and give him Nobels. Instead of criticizing what Putin said you're attacking him personally and making allegations without substantiaions. Nice copy pasta.

nothing more then a mouth piece for him

RT

duh

Oh wow you figure that out just now?

Newsflash all dictators are assholes, but at least he has the interest of Russia. In other nations their dictators work for the central banks at least Putin is working for his own people however his tactics.

Not to mention blowing up apartment buildings full of Russians.

And they violated Turkish airspace, there's that.

It's like people here don't even know what R.T. stands for. SMH.

BBC NEWS Is going to town on him pretty much saying that the 224 death plane terrorist attack was the result of his air strikes

"This was tough language from an icy-looking President Putin. Much of his comments were for domestic consumption. After all, he launched air strikes in Syria arguing that it would make Russia safer; instead, 224 people were blown out of the sky last month in a bomb attack - and now this. By rounding on Turkey, he is in part deflecting any suggestion that his own policy has backfired. But he is clearly furious too and it's not clear yet how that will translate into action."

It's like the news is prepping the masses to be anti Russia

It's already a hard pill to swallow watching how much love France got and Russia getting none following both their losses, now this.

EU needs that pipeline to go across Syria to get off Russia's dependency on natural gas. Nothing odd on this statement.

I believe the (US/NATO) preferred alternative is the Qatar-Turkey pipeline, in conjunction with the Nabucco, and a large reason for the destablization of Syria was to prevent realization of the Iran-Iraq-Syria pipeline.

Gas is totes like the new oil!

Speaking of oil pipelines...

Not that oil is entirely passé. Exploiting that huge field in the Golan Heights means Israel would also be able to get off foreign dependence. I mean, if it was actually theirs. It's just one more reason to oust Assad (who had previously refused to negotiate that territory in any peace treaty) and I doubt it's a coincidence that this conflict escalated within weeks of it's discovery.

"Control over the production and distribution of oil is the decisive factor in defining who rules whom in the Middle East." ~ Christopher Hitchens

More people need to realize this. I've been saying this shit since 2011 from the start of Syrian unrest, but people's eyes seem to gloss over when you explain it.

yup

Yup!!!!! No more Iraq, Syria, Iran pipeline, that's for sure

The anti-Iran/Shiite, pro-Qatari/Saudi/Sunni angle is also a factor. It works to bolster US hegemony in both Europe and the Middle East.

Yeah both nations deserve sympathy. The plane disaster over Sinai got barely any Western media coverage or sympathy when compared to Paris.

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why are you surprised? I mean come on really? Remember the plane shot down in ukraine? When the our media kept screaming that it was evil russians who did it? Remember the 2008 Georgia war? how everyone kept screaming that RUSSIA INVADES! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES! Or how for two years now ukrainians are basically neo-nazis yet the europe and us keeps screaming on how bad russians are without showing any proof? The only reason NATO hasn't done an "intervention" is because russia is strong enough to make it a huge trouble and US needs for the public opinion to be on its side so not before russia actually truly invades ukraine or some other neighboor, which under putin it won't do because its stupid on so many levels.

The US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have legitimize Russian military actions in Georgia and Ukraine. Well done Dubya.

I don't understand your comment

Russia believes it has a right to intervene in Georgia and Ukraine since America set the precedent with Iraq and Afghanistan.

considering that Georgia attacked south ossetia with quite a sizable military force including a russian military peacekeeping outpost which was armed only with small arms then the Georgia thing was entirely justified. As for ukraine while media and US keeps saying that there are russian soldiers there it has yet to produce proof that would show clearly that those people are actual soldiers acting under orders from russian army hq and not simply volunteer fighters fighting what they believe to be a neo-nazi backed regime which came to power through an armed coup.

I think there is a lot of evidence that Russian regular troops are in Ukraine. The "those are volunteers" excuse doesn't hold water.

http://conflictreport.info/2015/01/23/hard-evidence-the-regular-russian-army-invades-ukraine/

I don't know the details of Georgia's invasion but I assume it was all political manoeuvring and propaganda and that Russia manufactured the conflict Iraq-war-style so they could invade without too much blame.

the conflict there was since the 90's when russia could not manufacture much of anything, basically the south ossetia did not want to join the new independant georgia and instead wanted independance for itself, same for abhazia, and those little countries actually have people that are not georgians living there, actual abhazians and ossetians, they are an actual ethnic group. So in the 90's they had some fighting and georgians backed down. So over the years the pressure built along with some border problems, being as both georgians and ossetians are highlander people with rather hot temper and deep family ties there were clashes between civilians in the region, between civilians and police and all that. Then georgian president boldened by US military help, instructors and equipment along with overtures to join NATO(which would never happen) he went hardline and decided to answer another incident with an invasion burning civilian villages along the way then invading the capital and street fighting for days until russians could transfer enough forces to the region. Oh and while all this was going down an american warship was going to dock in georgia with a load of military cargo. Not humanitarian but military hardware.

Well, wikipedia paints a different sequence of events.

Diplomatic crisis between Russia and Georgia

South Ossetian separatists committed the first act of violence when they blew up a Georgian military vehicle on 1 August 2008.

Georgian snipers assaulted the South Ossetian militiamen during the evening.

Ossetian separatists began shelling Georgian villages on 1 August

7 August 2008, Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili announced a unilateral ceasefire and no-response order

Ossetian separatists intensified their attacks on Georgian villages located in the South Ossetian conflict zone.

Georgian troops returned fire and advanced towards the capital of the self-proclaimed Republic of South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, during the night of 8 August.

According to Russian military expert Pavel Felgenhauer, the Ossetians were intentionally provoking the Georgians, so Russia would use the Georgian response as a pretext for premeditated military invasion.

The centre of Tskhinvali was reached by 1,500 men of the Georgian ground forces by 10:00 on 8 August.[69] One Georgian diplomat told Kommersant on the same day that by taking control of Tskhinvali they wanted to demonstrate that Georgia wouldn't tolerate killing of Georgian citizens.

Russia falsely accused Georgia of "aggression" against South Ossetia, and launched a large-scale invasion of Georgia under the guise of peacekeeping operation on 8 August.

What I see is Russia, brewing agitation in bordering foreign country, then precipitate a crisis, then invade to help the anti-government side, then establish permanent bases in newly acquired lands.

It's the same thing with Ukraine, just step by step dismembering border states into new empire.

ok first of all south ossetia was a separate country from georgia with its own government so there was no anti-government side. There were south ossetian government and georgian one. As for ukraine the trouble started there before russians did anything.

As for the story propagated by western media and seemingly written into wikipedia as official history I remember watching tv, both western and russian and I remember well the pictures, videos of how Chinvali defending itself for days before russians came. I remember the stories of people in the villages that were shelled by the georgians, the stories of people who were hiding in their basements as the georgians were fighting with south ossetian military in the streets of chinvali. The destruction in that city.

Bah, whatever I have learned enough to know that what actually happens and what gets reported by western media are two different things, I have learned enough to know that both US and UK only remember the parts of events that suit their narrative.

for two years now ukrainians are basically neo-nazis

I live in Ukraine and it is not that way. Jews and Nazi types are getting along well enough because they hate the Russians more. The government allows militias to exist because otherwise they would be fighting more civil wars on its territories and the country is so fucked up that anyone willing to fight against Russia is encouraged. Somewhat recently one of the larger militias was given more official legitimacy when their leader moved up in the Kiev government. Additionally, early in the conflict both Moscow and Kiev alike both had motivations to kill off Ukrainian patriots and zealots because they were motivated enough to take arms against the capital city and nobody in power wants those kinds of people around. Ukrainians rallied against their corrupt capital and then strangely joined up with it just a few moments later when confronted with an external enemy. So then many of these people were basically sent to their deaths in Donbas.

yeah but I do remember that poroshenko was going to make banderovs into ukrainian heroes and banderovs were nazi criminal scum. Also why hate russians? What was that they did something so bad that hate against russians became pretty much the national policy? Have they done something in the last 20 years? 30? Also considering how many oligarchs are still around I would say the only thing that has changed is that one kind of criminal capital has been changed for the other kind.

PS. not russian. was from another post-soviet country before moving to uk.

Also I have read posts by ukrainians cheering the deaths of russians in the plane crash. Let that speak for itself.

Well Ukrainians as a whole are fairly incompetent and unable to accept responsibility for themselves. Just look at some other nations that get squashed under epic wars and then within twenty five years have rebuilt themselves to be the big bad asses again. Ukraine, never once. I like the place, the girls and my lifestyle here but one must be sure not to prescribe undue qualities to them.

truthfully I would't go there even if someone gave me a million bucks. Too risky. Also I am pretty sure the whole conflict thing is an american invention to make a hotzone on russian borders in order to make trouble and suppress the growing economic and military power. Like syria, nudge it just enough to make trouble and then let the embers of conflict glow but without catching fire or going out completely.

Ukraine is far more safe than Central America even with the conflict and even with the recent desperation theft is still even less. You just specifically don't go to the two oblasts that are under separatist control. So that is just like two counties in a state that are dangerous. Big fucking deal. Also comparing Syria to Ukraine might make sense to you but to me it is laughable.

yeah see I wouldn't go to those countries either.

What was that they did something so bad that hate against russians became pretty much the national policy

Well I mean they came in and pretty much took Crimea...

considering most people living on crimea were russians and actually voted on it you know? see the whole public process of choosing where you want to belong only seems to work if US approves of it otherwise it is said that someone invaded and took over

Regardless of what the people want, Russian military forcefully took sovereign ukranian territory.

So what you are saying is that when people want something different then what a government that came to power with an armed coup is wrong, when people want something different then the US wants is wrong but when they want something that fits in with those its ok. Democracy is not a one way street my friend. Otherwise its not a democracy.

A hostile takeover is illegal whether the U.S. supports it or not.

its not hostile takeover when the people living there in their majority decide to join a different country. But all of that is semantics Crimea was part of russia for ages before Khruschev himself a ukrainian gave it to ukraine in the 50's.
Didn't change the fact that most of the people living there were russians, identified with russia as their country. Why didn't they object when the a legitimately elected ukrainian government was overthrown in an armed coup? Because it was convenient for them. Also when americans invade a country(there have been quite a few) under false pretences, occupy it for years, make war on the locals its all very neatly filed away as "police action" and "bringing democracy". Everyone seems eager to say soviet union invaded afganistan and did all kinds of bad things there but somehow everyone forgets that the CIA sponsored mujahedin splintered and became several prominent terrorist groups like Taliban.

Unless Putin's goal is to Reunite the U.S.S.R.

putin is not stupid enough to do it by force, you have to give him that. He would do it only if the countries asked to be back by a popular vote. And even then with great caution. russia is big enough and it has its own problems to address before they can help anyone else.

he is in part deflecting any suggestion that his own policy has backfired

They use "backfired" because it sounds like "blowback": Blowback is unintended consequences of a covert operation that are suffered by the aggressor.

Meanwhile, ISIS itself is AT BEST direct blowback for destabization of the entire region by wars and covert coups by the US and partnering interests.

Why is it that every time I tell someone in any thread, other than /r/conspiracy, that ISIS is a result of U.S. destablization of the region, I get told that I'm an idiot in one way or another.

It's like the news is prepping the masses to be anti Russia

somehow this sounds very familiar

He probably did it on purpose and had them fly real close so they can instill a response. Provides him with some intelligence on Turkeys allegiances I feel these are all calculated moves to get information for a much larger military operation in Syria on behalf of Russia.

Now you have this on RT: https://www.rt.com/news/323306-video-russia-helicopter-syria/

I wouldn't be surprised if those were Chechen Mercs who Putin sent to make the video to fuel his fire. Like I don't know how easy it is to shoot one of those anti tank tow's 6km but he made it look easy.

Now they have this https://www.rt.com/news/323281-russian-pilots-killed-turkmen/ Like I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians shot them.

I think Putin just saw an opportunity and is taking it.. OR OR OR Turkey is just doing what Russia instructed him too and this game is down a much deeper rabbit hole.

So?

Record video release to liveleak; Russia news replays it to spread a prognostic agenda.

I just brainstorm.

I think I've come to the conclusion that the outcome we will one day face is WW3 its inevitable.

It just takes one Domino to fall we just have to hope that Domino is avoided for as long as possible.

BBC == obedient leashed yappie dog of Yankee imperialism.

And I say this as an ardent Putin-hating fanatic btw

Isn't that pretty much all of western Europe at this time, not just the BBC?

So wait, it's better to cower from or ignore the terrorists than to engage them? That's a fairly ostrich-like approach, and really just encourages the behavior.

What made you think I meant that?

Didn't think you meant that, but it sounds like the news thinks that.

We have always been at war with eastasia.

he launched air strikes in Syria arguing that it would make Russia safer

Are Russians this dumb ? Putin is basically insulting them at this point !

Media has been somewhat critcal of Russia since dubya's days in the oral office. Past five years they've def buttered us up to be anti russia. Even talk of nuclear war has been sprouting up. Maybe we are seen the beginning of a second cold war...

ISIS selling oil cheap is bad for Putin's business. He only "tells it like it is" when he benefits.

I really don't understand this Putin pole riding. He's no different than Obama or any other world leader. He lies when it suits his needs, kills those in his way, supports those that profit him and his country and tells the "truth" when it makes him more powerful.

The blinders here are astounding.

ISIS selling oil cheap is bad for Putin's business.

I think it's the fact that they are able to sell oil at all. Despite being a terrorist organization they are able to move millions of gallons of oil, most of it probably going through Turkey.

And? You're ok with Turkey buying oil from ISIS because admitting so benefits Russia?

I have no dog in this fight. I'm on the sidelines watching. Judge me for that.

But you just came in with an argument against Russia and Putin. As soon as somebody challenges your argument you invalid yourself from replying.

Not saying I am a Putin cock jockey, but most people probably swing his way because the enemy of your enemy is your friend.

Would you say he's as imperialistic?

I just don't know. His KGB upbringing rings every fucking bell there is.

I just don't know.

Fair enough, but if you admit Obama is, then that is actually quite a difference IMO, respectively.

It wasn't the killing of Röhm that made Hitler "Hitler".

Can I get some proof of a lot, some or any big lies be has said recently (that impacts the world ( I don't care about his local lies that only affect his country)) and a list of all the people he had killed, please..

And yet you and the others keep on, and on, and on, and on, and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn............Give it a damn rest already.

Maybe if the majority of internet users weren't uninformed fucking idiots (the irony of which kills me) he wouldn't have to go on and on and on and onnnnnn.

True but atleast he's bombing the crap out of ISIS and helping the world get rid of the terrorist scum, unlike NATO who bombed ISIS through lip-service, while actually doing next to nothing for over a year. Anyone that has lived or is living in a country experiencing terrorism will be happy that someone is serious about destroying its major source of power, whether we agree with such a person on every minute detail is irrelevant.

no different than Obama

http://cs620718.vk.me/v620718961/32b4/nTFegeUXXKQ.jpg

Preach it. Seems like this sub can't suck on Putin's dick hard enough. It's like they think he is some rogue bad ass, when in reality he's part of the club just like the rest of them.

Putin is cooler than Obama though let's be real here.

But he's also an elite.

There's that right-wing Putin lust. Just insane.

And could kick his ass.

It's because he is one of a few state leaders who actually speaks out against the US and calls the US out on their bs. What's more amazing is that this thread as just been turned into a discussion about Putin and not about the issues.

This sub jerks off to shirtless Putin pics while shitting on America... And they're Americans (well, right-wing fringe so not really).

Ok I'll bite. I'm a Putin cocksmoker. I think he's the bees knees. Other than lying that he didn't send in Russian spec ops guys and had them pretend to be locals, I've got nothing on him. He seems a decent man and a benevolent dictator, if you could even call him that

So Putin loving-why shouldn't I ?

Personally, he's a scumbag who cheated on his wife. That's all I need.

lol

So, you don't think he had that civilian plane shot down over Ukraine?

Nah. Not on purpose. Seems like his rebels shot it down in accident. He gained nothing if he did it. He's not a cold blooded terrorist.

Link to supposedly full statement by Putin: https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/3u2now/putin_calls_turkey_accomplices_of_terrorists/cxbbxq1

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[deleted]

You know thats a robot, right? Come on bud

Id rather say something to nothing than say nothing about something

[deleted]

Gotta practice before you deal with the biologicals

Not the same at all. Theres actual h00mans that you can talk to like the badmins that do that shadowban bullshit

[deleted]

Oh my hahahahhahaha

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The irony is you've already gone full retard

I'm more and more convinced that Putin is one of the only good guy leaders left. Every country seems to use him as a scapegoat and black sheep, but the things he says and does are, dare I say, quite rational.

EDIT: Jesus Christ. I forgot I wasn't allowed to voice an opinion in this sub without being attacked.

I don't think it's right that Turkey downed a Russian plane then killed the pilots. I think it's bullshit that NATO is backing that move. Is Russia in the wrong to fly in controlled space? Yes. Does that give Turkey the right to kill two Russian soldiers? Fuck no.

Putin. I said logical. Logical. As in, the decisions being made re: fighting isis make sense to my wee little brain. Does that mean I support everything the man has ever done? No. People have both good and bad in them. I believe that at this point in time, the decisions being made by Putin are going to do more in the fight against isis than decisions being made by other countries, US included.

That being said, I don't believe that that negates things that Putin has done in the past. It doesn't make me want to go visit him and have tea and cookies.

Some of you attack anyone with a different opinion. Isn't that supposed to be exactly what this sub stands against?

He may tell it like it is in some aspects, but he still engages in the same deceitfulness, propagandizing, corruption, and subversion of free press that any leader of a major nation does. It's weird to see people in this sub so strongly holding him up as an ideal leader while destroying others who do the same. I'm all for Russia as a world power, but Putin has his flaws, inherent and implemented, same as anyone.

Exactly this. Props for him being the world leader to actually tell it like it is. At the end of the day though, he's just like the rest of them.

And that's why Trump is so popular.

Other than invading Ukraine last year, right?

At the end of the day though, he's just like the rest of them.

Telling it like it is (except when Russia is engaged in equally shady shit where it is whitewashed or ignored by Russian state media) currently serves his national interests. Nothing more, nothing less.

Pot - Kettle - Black.

The reason that this post is alive and well is because there is Something more. In recent history we've failed at every war we've been in. From the War on Drugs to the War on Terror. And about every war following the one where the Vietnamese beat us. Our record is not good in recent history. Remember when we talked about "body counts" in Vietnam because the reality of the war was unpleasant? Pot - Kettle - Black, M'kay?

Nothing in my post equated the results of Russian wars with U.S. wars or said that the Russian government was equally or less justified than the American government in it's actions. I kind of like what Putin is doing. He's strategically placed himself in a position on the world stage where he can talk about things I want in the open without certain repercussions that may have been waiting for him had he said in the past what's he's saying now. But I'm not going to pretend he's a "good guy" and that his intentions ultimately aren't for his nation state's best interests before any type of naive code of moral justice. America just happens to be the biggest bully on the international stage. If we took an objective view of things, virtually any type of resistance to foreign American military action could easily be seen as morally justified.

I agree with you, I think.

Putin probably isn't a "good guy." Not sure what that is either, I'm thinking about it. I don't think "W" was a good guy, or Obabma, not with drone strikes and the never ending war, the joy of Guantanamo Bay, and the treatment of whistle blowers. I think we have a terrible shortage of "good guys."

The last "good guy" that comes to mind was JFK.

But, Putin is looking better simply by comparison. Pot-Kettle-Black

I can agree with all of that.

What does he do, past the whole demonizing labels, that politicians in america don't do?

Here in America news sources are basically state and corporate propaganda pieces.

Our political system is based off of taking bribes from people and doing them favors.

etc.

That's literally my exact point. You can't decry US authorities for doing it and ignore it when Putin does it because he "tells it like it is."

Agreed, he has flaws. I don't know if I agree with all the one's you've listed. But our recent saviors, Bush or Obama, have SERIOUS flaws too. If you took a poke what flaws do you see in our leaders? Just curious.

I see the same exact flaws, and that's my point. I just object to calling Putin a good guy when he does everything and more of what this sub considers egregious behavior from the US government or any other.

Maybe its just fun watching your own personal bully getting hit back. Even if it's from another bully. I suppose that's true with me.

you forget the US leaders do exactly the same, but are just better at covering it up

You mean the US engages in equally as shady and decietful shit as anyone but our propaganda machine is even BETTER?

I'm not sure there are any good guys left.

Yup. WMD Iraq comes to mind.

That's literally my point. It's a double standard to criticize Obama or anyone else for those things then ignore it when Putin does it.

Usually. This one looks a little messy.

Yes of course but at least he is the only person who is willing to be frank about this very grave situation in the Middle East.

Let's not ask him about Crimea, or that downed passenger plane

With every leader for my whole life exaggerating ever single incident or conflict or ignoring it I am just happy to hear someone be honest about something. As has been said he is still a politician, but his handling and commentary regarding Islamic terrorism has been refreshing.

How exactly is he being frank? He's talking frankly, but what he is saying is clearly not truthful whatsoever.

Russia has been focusing on bombing FSA in Syria, not ISIS. Now resolve that with what Putin is saying. If you don't smell bullshit in there you need a new detector installed.

Don't think I'm claiming any sort of sides here, it's all fucked bullshit propaganda. I'm just getting pissed that somehow people are convincing themselves that Putin is some standup sort of guy with clear altruistic motives when that is most assuredly not the case whatsoever.

"Good guy leaders", that also invades other nations. Sigh, what a dream boat.

I recommend you do some research on that which isn't from a Western media source.

Yeah, don't read the corrupt Western media. Russian media is far more reliable because when they're not reliable they disappear.

They reliably tell the "truth" as Putin wants it to be told.

I recommend the stark realization that you don't have to choose which tyrant's cock to suck - that you can tell ALL tyrants to fuck themselves.

Everyone invades other nations. US does it practically on a daily basis. Crimea was not a good thing, I'm not saying he's perfect, by any means. But at least he isn't giving support to "rebels" that operate too close for comfort with isis.

Everyone invades other nations.

Holy shit you act as if "everyone else is doing it" is a justification!

I didn't say it was okay. By that I meant that it doesn't make him any worse than others who do the same thing. We act like he's Satan, when other leaders do the same shit he does under the veil of national security!

Stop making excuses.

where he invade other nations? ... he is the president from russia, not usa.

Have... Have you never heard of Ukraine? Is that even possible?

and how he invaded this? did western media make you really this stupid?

noone invaded ukraine ... there was a coup (by USA) in ukraine to bring the nazis up ... east ukraine dont want this and fight against. this are ukraine people fighting ukrains. noone invaded anything.

If you want people to believe a lie, tell a big one, and repeat it endlessly.

Funniest thing I've read all week.

You really don't know about the "little green men" and you're buying propaganda that the US engineered a coup to bring Nazis into power in eastern Europe, then let our ostensible ally get steamrolled by the Russkies? Oh wait, according to you, we let our new ally get steamrolled by a group of ragtag rebels without any ties to Russia at all.

Does that make any sense at all? Like... any? Or do you think it might be more likely that Russia attacked Ukraine after the Ukrainians made a regime change, then the US backed the (non-Nazi) Ukrainians with limited support?

Which of these sounds more plausible, that there are tons of eastern European Nazis just waiting and salivating to get a bite of Russia, or that Russia made a land grab?

Balkanization of Russia has been the legit, non "conspiracy theory", goal of the U.S. Do you honestly think the U.S. doesn't try to influence and weaken their enemies? Any look at history would make that assumption look real foolish.

What part of Russia was Ukraine? How was anything Ukraine did since the days of the Soviets balkanizing Russia?

The Russians didn't even get involved until pro-Russians had to flee to Crimea because of all the violence from the new regime. You should really watch some of the footage of what the regime does. And yes, they are in fact neo nazis.

He didn't invade Ukraine. He stationed troops in Crimea (legally through a treaty between the two) to protect the Russians from those crazy ass Ukrainians.

Edit: LOL downvoted for the truth. What makes you think the US propaganda are the ones telling the truth? The truth is in the footage, people. Think for yourself.

Great job repeating Russian state propaganda. I guess the oil pipelines were just a happy accident.

Oh yeah and where do you get your info? CNN? Fox? How bout you look at the footage and information and decide for yourself?

No. No. Done. Russia's still a fuck-job, just like the USA is. Stop sucking that tyrant dick.

I'm not saying Russia isn't a fuck-job, and I don't need think Putin is some "great leader", but he's not in the wrong here. Of course he's going to make moves that benefit him, but he hasn't made any moves in Ukraine that infringe on rights. The US has.

but he hasn't made any moves in Ukraine that infringe on rights

I mean other than that whole "invasion" thing but that doesn't meet the message so let's just set it aside, okay?

Tell me exactly what you're referring to when you say "invasion".

You disingenuous shit.

I mean that's a pretty big accusation without any reference. Do you mean the troops he legally put in Ukraine to defend the native Russians from genocide?

Anything is legal and justified if you simply assert it is.

Or it's legal and justified because it's a documented right through the treaty between Russia and Crimea of 1992?

We both know you're already convinced of the justification of Russia's actions.

You're not providing any evidence of wrongdoing on their part, I've given you evidence that they haven't done wrong. You're damn right I'm convinced.

It's easy to be convinced when you're an apologist.

I'm more and more convinced that Putin is one of the only good guy leaders left.

ahhh the sentiment of someone that has only seen Russia on a map. Tell me if you feel that way again after visiting that country

Yeah, Crimea was a total good guy move

Its a bit ironic that we were all indoctrinated with the idea that Russia was the evil empire and our sworn blood enemy.

Turns out they are actually the good guys of the world, and WE are the evil empire...😕

Godamn are people fucking stupid. Are you stupid?

Russia isn't "good". Russia actually employs some horrible tactics on its people and it's probably not the best place to live if you like your personal freedoms or are someone who's gay and the like.

The only reason Putin is staying this shit and doing all this is because the Syrian war and ISIS inconveniences them. Putin don't have to pussy foot around politics to say what he wants but that doesn't mean he's good or that Russia is now some bastion of goodness in the world. Good luck being a journalist in Russia criticizing Putin or his people...

Aside from the bit about gays. The US engages in the same tactics albeit with a bit more subtlety and eloquence. Nobody is the good guy in this situation.

Last time I checked anyone can write what they want about Obama without worrying that some fed will knock on their door.

are actually the good guys of the world

Forgetting who was poisoning people with polonium a few years ago...

Edit response: Recently I'm observing everywhere a kind of amnesia about why Putin was considered the 'bad guy'. He did many bad things throughout his career. His methods were always brutal (poisonings, false flags, bombings, etc.). His policy is still expansionist (Georgia + Ukraine).

He can restart the offensive in Donieck and Crimea at any moment and there shouldn't be amnesia about that, because that is a currently developing situation.

Seriously, this amnesia has to be some kind of automatic psychological behavior.

Seriously, this amnesia has to be some kind of automatic psychological behavior.

Literally every nation is the same. Wherever you are from, your country has done, or continues to do the same shit. You know what the difference is? There isn't a monolithic coalition with a strong media/military apparatus that constantly acts as a watchdog over you.

It's almost like we're not talking about the past, but right now - this moment. These crimes that are happening now.

Because the CIA has not assassinated anyone, right? Put down the Kool Aid.

Just because the CIA has done equally shady/dastardly shit, doesn't mean we can just give Russia/Putin a pass because Putin is saying shit you like to hear now

Jesus Christ, it's like we all have the memories of goldfish on the internet

No one is "giving Putin a pass", what the fuck are you talking about?

The topic for discussion is ISIS, it's supporters and what is being done about that.

How much of a zionist shill are you - because really, you seem pretty fucking butthurt that people are clued into the Syrian scam.

I think we all know that the CIA is guilty of assassination, why can't the KGB be just as bad?

Uh... Russia would be the evil empire if it had its chance...

Well every nation on earth has to be evil to some extent to be able to maintain its sovereignty but that is not what I'm talking about.

What I just explained is totally different than what we Americans do witches try to conquer in rule the world at all costs. Two separate things.

I'm suggesting that Putin would conquer the planet given the chance.

Safe to say we're giving them as many chances as is possible.

Well, Russia is quite authoritative and suppresses a lot of freedoms we in the West can enjoy.

The perfect state would be Russia (outside) foreign policies/politics and US/West European (inside) civil freedom and liberty.

Quite Orwellian.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they're both evil empires. They just happen to be competing and are trying everything they can to discredit the other guys.

Do you know what Evil hates more than anything? Evil.

aka Competition in the same market.

I disagree. We make Russia look like an angel in comparison.

You just don't know the full extent of what Russia is really up to then. The US may have caused massive destruction and destabilization in the Middle East as of late, but the Russians have been doing the same thing in the Caucuses just as long. Not to mention Afghanistan, Crimea and the Ukraine. Russia is also for all intents and purposes a direct successor to the Soviet Union, which was responsible for some of the worst atrocities in human history. Go ahead and call out the US for all the horrible and reprehensible things they do, as they certainly do a great many, but don't try and equivocate for the evils committed by others. Putin and Russia are up to some horrible, evil shit and just because the US does evil too doesn't make them any better.

The US may have caused massive destruction and destabilization in the Middle East as of late,

MAY have caused? what the fuck are you smoking?

Episode VII spoilers!

Why don't you move to Russia and see how you like it.

Why don't you move to Iraq or Libya and see how you like it?

No thanks I like living in the empire

Right?!

Dude what are you smoking?

Putin is not a good leader for his people, and not good for the world.

He has moments of good work, but his nation is one mistake away from collapse, and he keeps messing around with other countries, trying to flex until he eventually takes it too far and the real world powers finally stop humoring him.

And the US never messes with other countries.

please learn to understand context, otherwise your shouting into the wind.

This is a really big logical flaw I see on reddit. The biggest one going on right now is the "but Christians have killed for their religion in the past too" argument whenever radical Islam is brought up. Like that was never part of the argument in the first place and isn't a relevant point to make. No one was arguing for the U.S. here.

You're the only one that mentioned the U.S. Let's stay relevant here.

He has moments of good work, but his nation is one mistake away from collapse, and he keeps messing around with other countries, trying to flex until he eventually takes it too far and the real world powers finally stop humoring him.

You can say the exact same thing of the US. The banking crisis was the US's fault, the whole shitshow in the middle east is the US's fault even some of the problems with Russia are the US's fault(imposing sanctions on a UN nation is illegal).

In a discussion about Putin, people really like to bring up the U.S. government.

I guess anytime a US politician speaks we should totally not discuss what they said and just focus on attacking their past and mentioning all rumors that we hear about him.

Try going to r/news and presenting a possible alternative to the narrative that sub presents.

If only he was actually attacking ISIS in Syria and not the civilians trying to free themselves from a violent dictator.

Also, look at this heartwarming move of Putin's!

Sans the anti-LGBT stuff (and other unethical aspects of reactionary culture).

Is this a fucking joke

This is, frankly, utter bullshit. He's an ex-KGB conman running a nation. If you think he's good, then you must think George H.W. Bush is a saint.

uh, plenty people in the US think George H.W. Bush is a saint even though he is a mass murdering fuck nugget.

lol maybe you're getting backlash for confusing opinions/rumors with facts. Turkey is a sovereign nation and has the right to protect its territorial integrity- fact. You claimed Turkey killed the pilots? I believe that is a rumor/false, and that Syrian Rebels shot down the pilots and subsequently destroyed the rescue helicopter

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Read a book or two on the man and his mischievous ways. There's plenty to choose from.

LOL really, OP?

Putin is like stannis from game of thrones.

or jon snow

but sad when you think how this ends for them

while I agree when it comes to global politics, I have to wildly disagree when it comes to his treatment of non-heterosexual non-whites.

I would also suggest that he seems to excel at truth telling when that truth is damaging to his not-such-good-friends in the West

A great man he may not be, but a master politician and propagandist, yes. To be expected of ex-intelligence services I suppose.

edit : removed 'wildly' as it seemed a little over the top. I'm not too wild about anything.

I would also suggest that he seems to excel at truth telling when that truth is damaging to his not-such-good-friends in the West

Very good point. He has a "good guy" vibe to us at this moment because what he's telling the truth about is what we in this sub have been yelling about for a while. Hadn't connected that until you said it.

US official tells Reuters initial indications are that Russian incursion into TR airspace lasted a matter of secs

Turkish president mentions 'kinsman' in northern syria... wait a minute, didn't they say it was a defensive attack?

Calm down and let me explain it to you. They warned them 10 times before the Russian jet was in their airspace because it was clearly heading in that direction. That is the protocol. Warnings come when an airplane approaches the airspace. And when the 10 warnings were ignored and the jet headed into Turkish airspace the decision was made to shoot it down.

[deleted]

I wonder how he will respond, Russia just got slapped in the face on the playground in front of everybody and the kid who slapped him is friends with the principal.

Wow, I never knew visualizing international relations as childhood relationships could be so funny and insightful. Thank you for this.

You might like https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hetalia:_Axis_Powers

I liked that analogy, haha.

*Principal

I would liken it to a punch to Russias back, while he was fighting a terrorist rat bastard. That kid "Turkey" runs with a tough crowd, yet Russia has beat that kids ass well in ww1 when Turkey attacked Russia with a sucker punch. If you understand gangs, prison gangs, etc you understand geo politics.

Where have you read that NATO are trying to distance themselves from it? I am in a NATO country and the news is saying that we are backing our ally.

I have to disagree. I don't think NATO would support these types of actions. Erdogan is a bit of a loose cannon but he is in a position of power. When he is no longer useful and a suitable NATO puppet has been preened to replace him, he is gone.

It is an over reaction to me. Intercepting would have been better. But still, Turkey has his rights to do whatever they think needs to be done to protect their borders.

I told this to Turks in fact, but they said I'm an Erdogan-hater and that I'm dumb. I asked them if they know what intercepting means, Turks reacted to me, I'm Turkish too, that I'm not a real Turk lol. I gave them even proof that other Nato nations intercepted in cases like this, but their cognitive dissonace didn't accept the truth. So to them this is no over reaction because they don't know about an alternative sadly.

Yes, Turks immediately support any military action Turkey takes. The mood of nationalism is very high with my folk. Even anti-erdogan Turks support the plane being taken down. I even believe they would have supported the gov when the military intercepted the plane, instead of taking it down. They just cheer for every "pride" stuff the country does.

Turks wouldn't care about an Israeli or US plane, I think. The gov would support Israel and US though. Only when a Turkish plane is shot down they would get very angry. Every single killed Turkish soldier makes it to the news here in Turkey. Their pictures, names, funeral, tears of the mothers, everything. They would hate Russia or Syria for this.

I also would like to add to these conversation, that Turkey has one of the lowest educations in the world. US citizens are 1.8x smarter than Turks. So, ignorance does play a huge role in their opinions.

When we take into account that Russia has been provoking and taunting Turkey for an ongoing while now, I don't see it as an over reaction.

A similar event took place in October: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/turkey-warns-russia-over-airspace-violations-as-syria-airstrikes-widen/2015/10/05/19d2e7b0-6b47-11e5-b31c-d80d62b53e28_story.html

Turkey escorted the jet out of their airspace that time. A nation has to stand up and draw a line somewhere for it to be taken seriously. Russia fully knew what it was doing and was basically taunting Turkey but they reacted swiftly and hit back hard this time.

And next time they will get their Fighters taken out of the air the moment they get near the russian bombers.

Please stop bringing up other related events into every thing you ask. You were misinformed over a situation and I made it clear to you what was going on, and I also made it clear to you what has been going on for a while. And instead of being content with the explanation of the situation you prolong the discussion by asking about similar events between other nations. You first need to take a moment out and reflect on new things you learn. And reflect on the fact that you are able to jump to conclusions (like you did here about the 10 warnings thing) without having knowledge about the entire situation. From there on onwards you can realize that you shouldn't do that and that situations aren't always like how they appear at first.

Zing!

I appreciate that explanation. It broadened my understanding, thanks bruh.

Maybe they're taking a leaf out of Russia's book and assuming because your kinsmen live in a region that, by default, makes it your territory. You know, as in Ukraine and blowing up a civilian airliner...not even a military ine in that instance and we're still to hear a "sorry" out of Russia.

Oh, we're going to talk ukraine now?

The place where Obama is on record talking about how the us was brokering regime change before the president fled to russia?

Oh, our foreign policy is a fucking dream, isn't it?

But listen to US media and you'd think russia just randomly decides to take action.

Tell me, if a group comes in to the united states and plots to overthrow the government and Obama flees to canada what do we do? do we just pretend it didn't happen?

Fuck you NSA bitchhttp://www.counterpunch.org/2014/02/27/the-neo-nazis-of-ukraine/. This is r/consp you think we don't know about this shit? Gtfo

Oh didn't realise I was in r/conspiracy. Damn it yeah it's all the illuminati right? sneaks out of subreddit as fast as possible

Classic deflection

lol you guys are hilarious. Keep up your crusade and maybe one day you'll do something a little more than just mumble complaints amongst yourselves. In the mean time I'll be over here enjoying my life.

With black jack and hookers?

Because yelling illuminati! sarcastically is all it takes to prove the official narrative must be true

We're watching you. Be afraid. Or just keep grumbling on forums and not actually doing anything serious about all these supposed terrible shocking conspiracies that are controlling our lives. Oh and don't forget to wear your Guy Fawkes mask, that'll really put the shivers up all these secret government agencies.

US invaded Iraq to clear it from terrorists, maybe russia should do the same thing in Turkey

I'm shocked at how uneducated many people are on the global situation of the last decade here. This sub use to have a lot of smart people, but the shills and uneducated are killing it right now. I find it downright scary how people fall for the double standards. That's the type of stuff that leads to major world wars. Notice how this thread is flooded with people trying to steer the narrative not just that Putin is bad, but getting people off the topic of truth to start arguing about if Russia in general is good or bad, which really is a wild goose chase since no country is really good or bad. They are all controlled.

Plenty here see it man.

Does no one remember the thread from awhile ago where it was pretty firmly believed he had Boris Nemtsov, the leader of his opposition, killed for criticizing him. This guy isn't sane.

[Investigating a cattle mutilation]

Officer Barbrady: This is nothing out of the unusual. Cows turn themselves inside out all the time.

Farmer: People's been saying they've been seeing UFO's around.

Officer Barbrady: UFO's? Ha.

Farmer: Yeah, and black army, CIA helicopters and trucks.

Officer Barbrady: That is the silliest thing I've ever heard

[black helicopters fly overhead]

Farmer: What was that?

Officer Barbrady: That, that was a pigeon.

Mr. Mackay: Oh, and Putin's bad, M'kay?

"Move it along, nothing to see here"

"Officer barbrady, it's always, 'move it along' and 'nothing to see here', we want justice!"

^pulls out gun

"Disperse"

That theory doesn't seem credible to me, the western media has vastly exaggerated the "liberal oppositions" relevance in Russia, it doesn't stand a cat in hells chance of getting any where near power.

Why assassinate something which is not a threat? There's more going on in Russia that just Putin you know.

Killing someone isn't insane, its just heartless.

Its quite a rational action for the desired outcome.

Sociopathy, not psychosis.

Are you talking about the cocksucker of the West Boris Jefimowitsch Nemzow? Good riddance I'd say. We need at least one or two countries that are completely out of the influence of the filthy West.

[deleted]

Because we don't silence, Guantanamo bay, or kill, Breibart/Hastings, or exile, Snowden, public discourse. In America we have the Freedom of Speech (Zones.)

Insanity is well spread, M'kay.

[deleted]

It must be your first time in the water? Don't be scared.

Here are some more laughs: http://investmentwatchblog.com/4-us-journalists-dead-past-24-hours-in-the-us/

While you may have a different opinion, I don't believe this article provides any evidence to support your claim. It also states Obama as a murderer. You may want to check your sources. I still believe that the cause of his death is far more likely to have been from the opposition do to their aggressive behavior and agenda to gain power. A man who seeks to take over the Ukraine by force in this day in age is interested in personal gain rather than peace which should be the worlds goal post WW2.

Notice how the killing of a couple of hundred civilians by the US is swept under the carpet whilst a Russia plane flying in the wrong air space is deemed head line news and worthy of being shot down.

If we had actually used some of those trillions in tax relief we give the oil and petroleum companies to generate renewable energy technology- some of this shit might not be happening now.

Energy independence doesn't benefit those that are writing the checks, why would they push a technology who's ultimate end is to remove the dependence on their product? The politicians are all bought and sold, they won't be helping you either, Anytime they get involved it is to stifle the innovations of those inclined to enable independence, either through burdensome regulation, taxation, or mismanagement.

Britains new energy secretary Rudd said that if they continue to build wind farms in the UK that wind will be supplying all of the power and seriously cut into the gas industry profits. And that once the windfarms are built, there is nothing but a small upkeep charge for the people using the power. No profit margin, you see.

Poor gas industry, what shall they do!?

IF they keep building wind farms, But that's a big IF. Also, the spotty nature of wind power will probably keep it from supplying "all" the power, unless there's some hydraulic storage or revolutionary new battery that i am aware of.

Fuck renewables. Nuclear is the only option that makes sense for the entire world.

Tell it to Fukushima.

Ok. I did. It said build the reactors and the power will come. Nuclear will pull literally billions of people out of poverty. Renewables will never do that.

You are hilarious.

This is not fucking good.

Another link in the WW3 chain.

Yeah, issues with Turkey two days before Thanksgiving. This could be bad; we may all end up with a shitty honey baked Ham instead.

Hey, I love Honey Baked brand Ham! We eat Honey Baked brand Ham at every opportunity. Honey Baked brand Ham.

Now where's my check?

That statement may not be as rash as it seems. Besides the reasons being mentioned in this thread, consider these exacerbating factors:

-Russia and the US want to be enemies again for various political and economic reasons. Among them, war justifies actions that would otherwise be blatantly for the benefit of a powerful business interest.

-Morally corrupt local leaders in the middle east, like everywhere else, are keen to accumulate wealth and power at any cost. They will even ruin their own people to keep it. The world powers can easily manipulate them as proxies in their war to cover up inhumane business arrangements.

-There are very influential christian wingnuts who are hoping for the end of times. They want to see the 2nd coming of Christ. In their left hand are angry muslims and other resentful people who want to basically see the same thing happen. In their right hand is big business.

-Israel has a lot of influence too and it would love to see its neighbors pushed into oblivion. It imagines that would satisfy its security and expansion needs.

-The general public's mood in Russia, the USA, and in Europe has almost successfully been turned to favor war. That may harm progressive movements in those nations which, of course, benefits Big Bu$ine$$.

How bad does shit need to get for the media to run a unbiased true series of events on a prime time Mk Ultra warping machine?

I'm happy for RT, they do a lot of good, although sometimes they are just as mainstream.

Go Russia, from the West.

EDIT: To be honest I really feel all the leaders are in it together, making us choose sides like democrats and republitards is pointless, no winners in war except the bankers.

The worlds a stage.

Would the last 'freethinker' who isn't interested in fellating Putin nonstop please turn out the lights on your way out?

Who can blame him for looking after his own interests? aren't all politicians like this? , USA has invaded and killed more countries and people than Russia if we going there.

USA has invaded and killed more countries and people than Russia if we going there.

OK, so are you counting from 1991 onward? Or would you like to give Imperial and Soviet Russia her full credit? Or maybe you just want to exclude the Soviet period? (embarrassing)

Either way I think you're wrong.

He also invaded a free country last year and armed rebels who shot down a passenger airplane...so he may be rational in IS context, but remember where his other rationalities lie.

Thanks for this. It's very important to remain as cautious with other nation states just as we are with our own.

Sounds like George Bush! Or Obama, the Hospital Destroyer.

I'd prefer a hospital destroyer to a nation destroyer.

Really... Youre saying that, especially with that username?

Lets see, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Libya of the top of my head. Probably dozens of other nations have also been destroyed by the US.

So you're saying Putin has destroyed Crim ea? Get a grip, moron.

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New Mexico is 47% Hispanic. If they voted to join Mexico you'd be alright with a Mexican invasion?

Still not buying the MH17 bullshit. It was just too perfect of a PR-gift for the fascist-supporting West.

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Rule 10. Removed.

Lol

Rule 10. Removed.

Posts that are critical of this sub will be removed.

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Rule 10. Removed.

Awww you jealous ? Fuck dude, why don't you go around repeating that same old tired fucking "statement" for a few more weeks, OK? You Asinine Fucking Tool.

What's with the scare quotes? Haha

Last week just after the Paris attacks BBC did a news report on ISIS's oil revenue and they directly implicated Turkey as the larges buyer. I mean this is not even a conspiracy, even the BBC said it!

I think all the world leaders need to have a royal rumble style BKB match. At least we would save a few civilians.

Russia: We're gonna ignore IS and bomb the fuck out of those Turkmenistan villages who happen to dislike Assad.

Turkey: Stop bombing our allies

Russia: We're gonna use a little corner of Turkeys airspace to get a better approach

Turkey: Stop using our airspace to bomb our allies.

Russia: ...

Turkey: Takes down plane

Russia: You're aiding terrorists!

And let's not forget that Russia provided the BUK missiles to take down a commercial airliner over Ukrain.

To everyone but Russia it is..

He does really well at professionally identifying the problem without seeming accusatory. He is stating it matter-of-factually, in a way that draws naturally to conclusion.

It is proved by the lack of the world media coverage of the event

which is why you never hear more than soundbites on the msm. if he was "in on it" he would be reading from the script just like all the rest. syria chem, crimea and syria isis moves all show he is an independant player at the chessboard

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ITT: slurp slurp

Translation: people's referendum to join Russia, laws against propaganda of homosexuality not homosexuality and so on.

Ok, OK,OK...... We get it. You LOVE to kiss the boots of the Imperial war mongering US of A. Will you shut up now? You and this entire "Anti-Putin" brigade that's been going around bitching and whining all over reddit now.

STFU ALREADY ABOUT IT. YA FUCKIN' WHINERS.

OK I'm bringing the big guns out. Putin is a textbook fascist and so are you.

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Really but when the U.S and its allies overthrow a legitimate government in a coup, and the Secretary of State (Madeleine Albright) is caught redhanded admitting to as much, then they go ahead and install neo-nazi's in power through "free & fair" elections, its all well and good because the western media's point of view is always right and they never ever lie, ask Iraq

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US invasions are generally fighting on behalf of the government of the country

... are you serious? I don't think I have the words to describe how wrong you are.

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I thought it was pretty clear that Russia was bombing Turkmen rebels who are part of the Free Syrian Army, the original rebels that the US supported against Assad and who the Turks formally warned them to stop attacking. Not IS in any way.

Still fucking terrorists though.

Who isn't a terrorist in your book then?

No, he's telling it as Russia sees it. Turkey was not protecting terrorists, that's total bullshit. Turkey absolutely has the right to defend its sovereign airspace and shoot down any and all trespassers- in fact they gave multiple warnings which they were not required to give, but those warnings were serious. The Russians have been playing games of chicken/brinksmanship and it's finally bitten them in the ass.

I agree that Turkey had other options and didn't "have to" shoot down the plane. I'm always against violence and killing, so what I guess I mean is that Turkey was within their right to protect their airspace.

It's disgusting to me if/that Turkey supports Daesh, in any way. I heard Turkey is buying cheap oil from the terrorists. I believe Turkey doesn't exactly "support" Daesh, but it may rather be an "enemy of my enemy" thing in that Turkey is content to let the terrorists fight the Kurds or something

time for a couple more

cruise missiles for daesh

I tend to think that Putin cultivates his cool guy image very much, and plays into it having learned to work the media effortlessly. Im not sure I can think of any current politicians or leaders that are without fault, but I tend to think if you evaluate the mistakes of them all, Putin would have one of the longer lists of grievances in terms of both social and economic issues. That being said I am impressed with his handling of the ISIS situation...so far.

At least during the cold war you chuckleheads knew what side you were on. I'm so fucking sick of listening to Americans prattle on about how real this soviet-throwback bullshit artist is. If he was a real leader he wouldn't be rigging all his elections, tanking his economy, and starting wars under pretenses that were lame 50 years ago. He's a fucking scumbag, and the Russian government is NEVER going to be your friend. They're busy building another doomsday bomb just to leverage fear, and yet on the daily I get to hear Americans sing Putin's praises. He's a douche, and you're not worth claiming as an american citizen.

Putin is the only major world leader that I trust anymore.

hahahaha!

Wait...I KNOW he's a gangster, but compared to all the others he seems like a straight shooter. He is looking out for Russia, and calling out the liars in the US, Europe, and elsewhere.

He is a liar himself too. And I don't mean "he said some lies in the past". He is lying today.

Really? US radar confirms the plane was shot down in Syria. It strayed into Turk territory for mere seconds.

That's a different story but I was talking about Putin's facade to portray himself as he is in Syria to fight off ISIS while he is merely there to protect Assad's regime. About the plane, from what I understood the plane was shot at from Turkey but the missile(s) took some time to reach the jet.

Sure Putin has his interests at heart. Russia has had bases in Syria for a long time, and they have the natural gas pipeline to consider as well. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar-Turkey_pipeline

Am I correct in assuming that Putin doesn't want that pipeline to be made because it would make nations lose their dependency on Russia's energy supply?

yep yep yep...but Amerikkka wants that pipeline bad. This has nothing to do with helping the 'rebels' fight the 'evil' Assad (who has been keeping a lid on radical Muslims btw.)

And so it becomes clearer and clearer what Putin's intentions are. He doesn't give a flying fuck about ISIS and he isn't even there to target them as it clearly shows how he has attacked Turkmen and Syrian civilians almost exclusively. But he still tries to portray to the world as if he is there to 'fight terrorism'.

Well, ISIS are terrorists, they do kill people, and Russia IS bombing the dogshit outta them. But really, it's all about the money, always has been.

Take a look at this article, it has a chart of where Russia has been attacking:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34882503

certainly not "bombing the dogshit" out of ISIS as much as bombing the shit out of Syrian and Turkmen civilians and rebels.

These 'rebels' that have been so romanticized are ISIS, AQ, or one of a hundred other groups, none of them good guys. I'm all for nuking the entire Middle East including oh-so-holy Israel. The entire region is totally worthless.

Vladimir Putin is good politician, and player of the Great Game.
But trusting him?

He is stronk leader, not girl like 0bama.

I don't know that that is fair. Obama has had a bad time up to this point, I think he's probably given up and just coasting since he couldn't get shit done in the American political system. It just so happens while he is coasting a bunch of real shit is going down.

It is fair, he gave up long ago. He realized on day one he was in over his head.

Putin/Trump 2016

Why doesnt someone just invite Putin here to clarify things?

Is Israel doing anything with this ISIS problem?

Legitimate question

ITT: Putin experts

Dude, there is only one side of an argument on the internet. We have no room for your rational thinking here.

The chess game continues. Written last year but it's being proven right, especially about Russia intervening in Syria and ISIS doing the West's bidding:

http://plansofatlas.com/2014/11/03/putins-pounds-of-flesh/

I was clearly referring to the Polonium accusation.

#Putin2016

"A nations military"...? You mean the US Military!!!?

Damn was that hard to read. /r/titlegore

This is the western world - allies of the terrorism. Terrorism is convenient for them. As soon as the RF started bombing the terrorist, the whole western world started to scream about the wrong targets - which is bullshit. The aircraft has not(according to rossiyans) violated the turkish airspace. And even if it had, the RF fights the terrorists. Why so aggressive then? Maybe Turkey has something to gain?!

That wont bring any good

God damnit Gorky, stop spreading your misinformation you gullibly swallowed.

What the fuck is up with this Pro-Russia bullshit everywhere?

You have Turkey, a State with an insane civil war just over its Southern border, and a State that does not want that civil war spilling into its State, and a State that is trying to protect its territorial integrity from a separatist group, on the one hand, shooting down an armed jet bomber from a completely foreign state - one that has historically wanted to gain access to the Mediterranean - which flew its bomber over Turkey's territory, on the other hand, and people are blaming Turkey?! Seriously?

Imagine if China were sending arms to separatists in the Southern part of the United States in the context of an ongoing civil war right on the U.S.'s Southern border, and Russia decided to start flying jet bombers over Texas. Would anyone even consider if the U.S. acted correctly in the event that it shot down such a hypothetical jet? Fuck NO! So why are these ridiculous standards being applied to Turkey?

I suspect many people here linking stories and commenting aren't from Turkey, aren't even from the region, and have no fucking clue how Turkish people or the Turkish government operate on a daily basis.

This.

It is really a sad thing that people think they can form an opinion without getting the right facts or the whole image. A reality is only a reality when you look at it from different perspectives. Not just from one thing you know.

Turkey: Stop touching me Russia!

Russia: I'm not touching you! See! holds finger close to Turkey's face

Turkey: You touched me! punches Russia I told you not too!

Russia: ow! Turkey hit me! He's such a jerk! Can you believe him right now?

most people on this sub: WW3!!!!! Cant believe thissssss. Putin is a good man fighting against ISIS!

I read the "God damn" line as if it was still Putin speaking, quite fitting.

Apparently operation Barbarossa is still a go. Its been a slow build up and the NWO are sure to put most of the blame on their pawns. Why get your hands dirty? How can we have world peace when the super powers of the world insist on playing RISK with each other?

Truth

Sometimes stinks...Who sends a lone plane built in 93 on a military mission without support. Putin ordered the excursion and knew exactly what would happen

I agree, Russia might have done this intentionally. I wonder what strategy they had in mind if they indeed planned this.

Putin has never been straightforward on anything.

Or he's full of shit and just saying what you want to hear.

lol, because Putin cares what conspiracy theorists in the west think.

Wait until he ties north Africa to arms deals involving the U.S. and ISIS/Al Qaeda.....

How does ISIS oil sales count as smuggling ? Did the third reich smuggle stuff ? Did America smuggle arms into Britain ?

America sold arms to the Third Reich.

Sure lets also say it like it is how the IS formed and gained arms in the first place.

Shit happens in the Great Game and War dude, it's not like one person sat down and thought, "You know, I'm gonna fucking /ruin/ the middle east; and while I'm at it, i'm going to create a group of radical islamic terrorists to scare the shit out of the West and f*** up the ME even more."

This is why you dont fucking meddle with other nations. First it was USSR vs US trying to prove who had the bigger dick. Those affects carried over to the 21st century.

Well, I mean it's been a dick waving contest since Mesopotamia. Nothing you can do about that. At least now instead of the US and Russia its the US, Russia, China and then the EU's Confederacy-like Diplomacy Deal.
It's more distributed, you could say; though for now the US still remains the club leader.

And the US never messes with other countries, US included.

Russia is claiming they're fighting ISIS while they target places where ISIS is not present at all.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/ED46/production/_86724706_syria_us_russian_airstrikes_624_161115.png

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34882503

Wouldn't that include the US?

So should we include oil in the "Drugs fund terrorism" campaign?

USA doesn't get its oil from the Middle East. The USA gets its oil from its own production, Canada, Gulf of Mexico, Venezuela, and West Africa (where some truly awful dictatorships let Shell and the rest of them and their mercenaries do whatever they want)

The USA is in the Middle East to control everyone elses supply of oil. An American finger on the spigot of supply grants you a de facto veto power over the policies of industrial nations.

Also money for energy and engineering firms.

Now all that said, yes you should still get off the oil for environmental and economic benefits. Its not hard public transport infrastructure isn't a pie in the sky idea.

Turkey is purchasing oil from ISIS.

Might be time to siege back Constantinople.

If that's true don't think for a second NATO allies don't know and approve. At lest one of them has to know, if that's true that is.

Turkey has also provided al-Qaeda in Syria with Sarin Gas and intelligence on American trained rebels.

I have doubts on this one, Al-Qaeda's connections to Saudi Arabia and CIA are clear but siren gas from turkey? Let's not sling mud just to see what sticks. Let's also not forget that when we say allies to the United States we really mean proxy agents that act within a space dictated by a bigger power. The Syrian regime uses siren gas, al-Qaeda MO doesn't align with gas.

Unrelated note (or guess): I think al-Qaeda has been resuscitated to fight the dirty war against isis. Could this be how they got siren gas? It could be a possibility because they've been a hallow carcass for a while now. (I know I've gone back on what I said in the previous paragraph but it's just two scenarios/ thinking with my thumbs)

Two members of Turkish parliament are saying:

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/10/20/turkish-mp-ankara-supplied-terrorists-in-syria-with-sarin-gas/

Seymour Hersh wrote about it last year:

http://www.foreignpolicyjournal.com/2014/05/06/seymour-hersh-links-turkey-to-benghazi-syria-and-sarin/

https://consortiumnews.com/2015/09/16/was-turkey-behind-syria-sarin-attack-2/

The argument is it was an attempt to draw America into a ground war

Go Russia, from the Western nations.

right on, right on, right on.

So WW3 gets closer?

Good question.

the man has almost nothing to fear, he is there to swing his huge military dick as he see's fit. and in this situation i cant say I am upset.

I'm sure I'm about ten times too late for this, but this is the third time that Russian jets have breached Turkish airspace: http://www.vox.com/2015/10/6/9464847/russia-turkey-jets

After the previous breaches, Turkey warned Russia loudly and publicly that the next time a Russian jet breached the Turkish border it would be shot down. This came alongside NATO warnings that 'hey, maybe russia should cut this shit out.'

But of course they didn't. Russia is ALL about the brinksmanship and the prodding at NATO borders because he's trying to see if it will continue to support its charter in the face of actual aggression. I am extremely skeptical of anything Russia says against Turkey at this time because his policy in regards to Russian jets and Turkish airspace has been to fuck with them as much as is humanly possible.

The brinksmanship doesn't even come close to ending at Turkey either. Between March and October 2014 alone Russia engaged in almost 40 instances of brinksmanship with Western nations. http://www.europeanleadershipnetwork.org/medialibrary/2014/11/09/6375e3da/Dangerous%20Brinkmanship.pdf

Seriously. Don't take Putin's word for gospel - his politics is at the very minimum as dirty as anyone else's, and all the evidence indicates his is far dirtier.

I wish more people would be level-headed like you. Unfortunately most people are just rooting for their leader of choice like they are rooting for their favorite sports team. Not being bothered if the leader is a liar or equally evil as the enemies he is fighting against. Not taking the 'truth' into account so to say.

Its very simple, Russia is targeting Assad's opposition, including the Turkmen minority near the border with Turkey. Turkey is pissed and they were waiting for a jet to stray over the border. One did, so they shot it down to make a point. Nothing complicated here. If you believe either Turkey when it says it showed restraint, or Russia when it says that Turkey is being the sole aggressor you are fooling yourself. Each side is making a point. How much farther will Russia go to support Assad? How much farther will Turkey go to support the rebels against Assad, and ISIS against the Kurds?

This is not the first time that Russia has been fucking around on the border of Turkey and has had a jet fly over Turkey's borders. So while you may be right that Turkey was waiting for one, Russia knows exactly what it is doing and was poking the bear. This article from last month goes over it pretty well: http://www.vox.com/2015/10/6/9464847/russia-turkey-jets

Which 'nations military' is he referring to?

Turkey

Ahhh. Thanks

Lol why the fuck does this have to be in r/conspiracy? Those mods in r/news still getting kickbacks for censorship?

Watch Russia will take something down now and say it was in violation. That is why he just announced that his cruisers will take down any kind of NATO threat. Then they will try to turn it on Russia because you know it is Russia.

Haha if this is what happens, remind me to buy gold to give you.

I was going to call this out for being a bullshit post but I've read the entire timeline and it's accurate. It does appear Turkey security forces shot down the plane and it was not violating Turkish airspace nor a security risk. It's telling that Turkey contacted NATO before Russia to descelate. It's also telling that oil stolen from Syria is being tansported through Turkey...where is NATO response to this? IS is only a threat because it's being allowed by those who stand to gain, namely Turkey for oil and the US to weaken their decade old target Syria. Global politics.

Truth is truth.

The Daesh, nevertheless, is barbaric... and should be put down ASAP.

Of course, they have been long supported by the US, Israel and other allied nations of the US, why does anybody doubt this? jesus christ... "conspiracy theory" now what? they literally shot down a jet that was taking down ISIS.

why do you think that terrorists have lasted so long in the area? don't make me laugh...

There is a whole group of people here on this sub that's believing Putin is accurately launching airstrikes against just ISIS. They don't know that their strikes are anything but accurate, they are also bombing Turkmen villages and Turkmen rebel fighters who are fighting against ISIS.

Turkey has no place in NATO. Orelse any sensible country, really. Have heard a number of times that Germany should get out of NATO today. Not representative, of course, but a number of people have made the right connection.

Turkey's place in the NATO is to deliver oil over a proposed pipeline to the EU. Assas refused this pipeline, and then ISIS/DAESH came funded by Qatar, Saudi, Turkey, Israel and US.

Meanwhile Russia is still refusing to admit its troops are in Ukraine.

Does he really tell it like it is? Or does he tell it the way he wants you to hear it?

well your title said putin is always telling it like it is when in reality he is just as big of a liar than any politician out there.

I am baffled by /r/conspiracy love for Putin, trust me if you lived there you would know. People are oppressed and been for many decades. Russia has no independed newspapers left, only 1 private tv channel that you can only watch through paid cable sub. Rewritten history books. During soviet times there was several pages in the history books about famine in ukraine caused by stalin, now there is only 1 sentence in the whole book. Stalin has been turned form a killer to a national hero in the span of just few years.

You know nothing about Russia op I am sorry to burst your bubble but you support a ruthless dictator that killed innocent people and robbed Russia out of trillions of dollars. Not a single politician alive today did more to hurt innocent people than Putin. But you can continue to worship him its your choice.

You dont know because you dont live there. There is no point even continuing the discussion with you because you are so misinformed its pointless.

you will never know for sure if he is liked or not at home, not a single officially independent news paper exists anymore.

Every single journalist that was critical of Putin has been murdered.

More than 20 journalists have been murdered in Russia critical of the regime in just the last few years. More than 150 journalists since the 90's. Every single one either wrote about Putin or wrote about corruption.

Now tell me why would an honest person like you said kill so many? Ask yourself that.

"You can trust Putin because Putin never lies." - Putin

He's like the Donald Trump of Russia.

Russia must have deliberately provoked Turkey to shoot their jet down. I wonder what they are up to.

He tells it like it is because who in their right mind would retaliate? You can have balls like that when you know they're protected by a steel cup. You can throw a bomb into the most desolate part of Russia with 0 injuries and I bet it would still cause an international ordeal or even war.

Wu Tang Vlad ain't nuttin' to fuck with.

I think putin is an awful man, who's probably done enough to legally deserve a death sentence; however, he is an incredible manipulator, which honestly is a good quality to have as a world leader, due to the fact that if we let ignorant people know dangerous information, or call the shots, everything would go to shit. Imagine how hard it would be to govern any country if anything was done with total transparency; having a snake in power who actually loves his country, is extremely beneficial, as when he's ready to give up, everyone will likely want to throw him out and replace him with someone more modern.

hatred for a tyrant is one of the best ways to unite a nation

Here come the Russian apologists.

Turkey warned the aircraft for over 5 minutes that it was getting close to Turkish airspace with no response. What happened then?

Russia called Turkey's bluff (Turkey had vigorously complained a few months ago about Russia violating it's airspace) and got spanked for it.

[removed]

Rule 10. Removed.

Wow, what happened here?

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Rule 10. Removed.

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Rule 10. Removed.

Rules 1 & 10. Removed.

This is such bullshit. Russia skirted the border, the plane was blown up, and then the "Turkish" militia shot down the rescue helicopter and shot the parachuting crew members, which is a war crime.

you can now shoot down planes that skirt your border

An action against Russia is not necessarily an action in favor of ISIS. Russia has generally bombed the Rebels fighting ISIS and the Assad regime much more than ISIS.

I.e. They've bombed opponents of the Assad regime much more than they've bombed ISIS.

Quiet you. This doesn't fit in the narrative that people carefully knitted into their minds about how Putin is the messiah and Turkey is supporting ISIS.

I've fucked up

He's the Soviet Donald Trump.

Russia hasn't been Soviet for 24 years.

Did you get the point of the sentence?

Republican or Democrat?

Soviet/Marxist.

Salt or Pepper?

Yes and the comparison literally makes /no/ sense.
Donal Trump is a billionaire and aspiring politician, Putin is a warhawk and comes from a miltary and political background.
They are damn near opposites.

Haha imagine getting your news from a Russian propaganda site so that you can read only things you agree with.

Oh wait.

Getting your news from major corporations is much more free of bias

Is that sarcasm? The wiki is too long for me to find the answer.

TL:DR fuckin burned that fuckin dude man. ha

I just read it. Youre right. Dude got rekt as fuck

Haha epic dude too bad your straw man is a failure because you're just assuming facts about me to tell yourself I'm wrong. You don't know where I get my news, but I'll tell you this: it certainly isn't from the Russian propaganda machina lmao. "Top minds" bested me again!

I now adore Putin so much, he's not scared to call people out on the bullshit and actually talk sense.

Its a bit ironic that we were all indoctrinated with the idea that Russia was the evil empire and our sworn blood enemy.

Turns out they are actually the good guys of the world, and WE are the evil empire...😕

"Good guy leaders", that also invades other nations. Sigh, what a dream boat.

Uh... Russia would be the evil empire if it had its chance...

Right?!

are actually the good guys of the world

Forgetting who was poisoning people with polonium a few years ago...

Edit response: Recently I'm observing everywhere a kind of amnesia about why Putin was considered the 'bad guy'. He did many bad things throughout his career. His methods were always brutal (poisonings, false flags, bombings, etc.). His policy is still expansionist (Georgia + Ukraine).

He can restart the offensive in Donieck and Crimea at any moment and there shouldn't be amnesia about that, because that is a currently developing situation.

Seriously, this amnesia has to be some kind of automatic psychological behavior.

He may tell it like it is in some aspects, but he still engages in the same deceitfulness, propagandizing, corruption, and subversion of free press that any leader of a major nation does. It's weird to see people in this sub so strongly holding him up as an ideal leader while destroying others who do the same. I'm all for Russia as a world power, but Putin has his flaws, inherent and implemented, same as anyone.

Putin is like stannis from game of thrones.

Well, Russia is quite authoritative and suppresses a lot of freedoms we in the West can enjoy.

The perfect state would be Russia (outside) foreign policies/politics and US/West European (inside) civil freedom and liberty.

Quite Orwellian.

Godamn are people fucking stupid. Are you stupid?

Russia isn't "good". Russia actually employs some horrible tactics on its people and it's probably not the best place to live if you like your personal freedoms or are someone who's gay and the like.

The only reason Putin is staying this shit and doing all this is because the Syrian war and ISIS inconveniences them. Putin don't have to pussy foot around politics to say what he wants but that doesn't mean he's good or that Russia is now some bastion of goodness in the world. Good luck being a journalist in Russia criticizing Putin or his people...

Sorry to burst your bubble, but they're both evil empires. They just happen to be competing and are trying everything they can to discredit the other guys.

while I agree when it comes to global politics, I have to wildly disagree when it comes to his treatment of non-heterosexual non-whites.

I would also suggest that he seems to excel at truth telling when that truth is damaging to his not-such-good-friends in the West

A great man he may not be, but a master politician and propagandist, yes. To be expected of ex-intelligence services I suppose.

edit : removed 'wildly' as it seemed a little over the top. I'm not too wild about anything.

Why don't you move to Russia and see how you like it.

Might want to pad those corners so the edges don't cut you.

I'm more and more convinced that Putin is one of the only good guy leaders left.

ahhh the sentiment of someone that has only seen Russia on a map. Tell me if you feel that way again after visiting that country

Yeah, Crimea was a total good guy move

Sans the anti-LGBT stuff (and other unethical aspects of reactionary culture).

Oh wow you figure that out just now?

Is this a fucking joke

Dude what are you smoking?

Putin is not a good leader for his people, and not good for the world.

He has moments of good work, but his nation is one mistake away from collapse, and he keeps messing around with other countries, trying to flex until he eventually takes it too far and the real world powers finally stop humoring him.

Rule 10. Removed.

This is, frankly, utter bullshit. He's an ex-KGB conman running a nation. If you think he's good, then you must think George H.W. Bush is a saint.

If only he was actually attacking ISIS in Syria and not the civilians trying to free themselves from a violent dictator.

Also, look at this heartwarming move of Putin's!

Your post comes off kind of cunty. I was alluding to the fact that it's now legal for them to use propaganda in the states... this guy was nice enough to confirm and post a source.

"Educate yourself" by..... reading a link that confirms something I mentioned in another post? I'm confused. If you weren't trying to be a cunt. Good day. If you're just a cunt, fuck off.

Try going to r/news and presenting a possible alternative to the narrative that sub presents.

lol maybe you're getting backlash for confusing opinions/rumors with facts. Turkey is a sovereign nation and has the right to protect its territorial integrity- fact. You claimed Turkey killed the pilots? I believe that is a rumor/false, and that Syrian Rebels shot down the pilots and subsequently destroyed the rescue helicopter

Still fucking terrorists though.

I agree that Turkey had other options and didn't "have to" shoot down the plane. I'm always against violence and killing, so what I guess I mean is that Turkey was within their right to protect their airspace.

It's disgusting to me if/that Turkey supports Daesh, in any way. I heard Turkey is buying cheap oil from the terrorists. I believe Turkey doesn't exactly "support" Daesh, but it may rather be an "enemy of my enemy" thing in that Turkey is content to let the terrorists fight the Kurds or something

Great job repeating Russian state propaganda. I guess the oil pipelines were just a happy accident.

So?

Record video release to liveleak; Russia news replays it to spread a prognostic agenda.

Episode VII spoilers!

You could rename MSNBC (DemSNBC) and CNN (CIA).

Calling people the s-word is a bannable offense.

No, their used as a source but the language is chances. Reuters does not even let their journalists hue the word Terrorist unless they are directly quoting someone who said the word.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuters

Maybe they're taking a leaf out of Russia's book and assuming because your kinsmen live in a region that, by default, makes it your territory. You know, as in Ukraine and blowing up a civilian airliner...not even a military ine in that instance and we're still to hear a "sorry" out of Russia.

Sure didn't see like it when they put on a circus also known as a debate recently.

Exactly.

Russia hasn't been Soviet for 24 years.

hahahaha!

We both know you're already convinced of the justification of Russia's actions.

What made you think I meant that?

Why is it that every time I tell someone in any thread, other than /r/conspiracy, that ISIS is a result of U.S. destablization of the region, I get told that I'm an idiot in one way or another.

You literally have no idea what you're talking about. Read a book or two on the man and his mischievous ways. There's plenty to choose from.

While I typically enjoy this comment (demand sources!), linking to users who are shills is forbidden.

Turkey

you can now shoot down planes that skirt your border

Didn't think you meant that, but it sounds like the news thinks that.

Just keep an eye out.

They're the anti-conspiracy posters in a conspiracy forum.

Haha if this is what happens, remind me to buy gold to give you.

Take a look at this article, it has a chart of where Russia has been attacking:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34882503

certainly not "bombing the dogshit" out of ISIS as much as bombing the shit out of Syrian and Turkmen civilians and rebels.