Remember when we used to use the up vote and down vote buttons to bury and promote content based on whether we felt it contributed to the community or not. Those were the days.

How Reddit Was Destroyed

Interesting post. Although I take issue with the third point, that AMAs are only open to celebrities. I was able to do one to promote a liquid democracy project and had lots of success.

I am definitely not a celebrity. Unless you count competitive programmers.

Fuck downvote brigades.

Love this post. Thanks for reminding me of it /u/Orangutan. Very relevant here.

Hes a great user

Thank you! :)

/r/FutureBreedMachine66 responding for /r/Orangutan...

Hm? What inside joke am I not getting here? Does someone need to ELI5 me on this...or did you just respond using the wrong alt?

[removed]

I haven't gone to the site you're referring to, but why would any mod in this subreddit discredit someone who has a decent 911 blog? Isn't that a bit part of what this sub is about? trying to get at the truth behind covert, nefarious, hidden machinations in society?

Just read it. Seems fair enough.

Its more complicated than this guy is letting on.

/u/SovereignMan linked me.

[removed]

This place is compromised

Sounds about right...

Yep and those days are long gone. Instead of each user getting 1 vote per thread, it's now who has the most $ to "buy" votes. Ya it's fucked.

I wonder if it's evolving into a microcosm of the government.

Those were also the days when we didn't have to weed through dozens of back-and-forth personal attack comments just to get to a comment that was on topic.

But, why weed through back-and-forth attack comments even to begin with? What changed....

The point is, just don't look at them. No one cares too much and if they do, they can report it.

Please: don't become THEM.

Do not engage.

Well fuck, doesn't the report link directly to the comment being reported?

If you are worried about bad comments, that aren't reported, laying around with no one reporting them, I say puff puff pass that shit out of your sphere of concern.

If no one is reporting them, let it go. If people are, then you can read them directly off the report link.

And what does social order mean?

You can read it and not have it affect your life.

We don't need any of this safe space rubbish.

Censorship dressed up nicely is still just censorship.

That was me actually, thanks.

[deleted]

Isn't controling someones behavior mind control?

Edit: " By definition, therefore, cultic mind control is a process of either unconscious or intentional change of an individual's behavior, thought, and emotional patterns through subtle, deceptive, and damaging  means by unethical spiritual leaders who hold positions of trust and authority over them. It involves a process whereby an individual's means of independent thought is effectively controlled and even overcome by degrees, and an entirely different mode of thinking is adopted by them which is supplied by these leaders. It is this kind of power that leads men and women in cultic groups to accept as normal various kinds of abuse, outrages and privation that those outside the groups would recognize immediately for what it is.",

You are aware that once a comment receives too many down votes it becomes hidden to save you the time of reading it.

The thing is you're never going to completely stop personal attacks on this subreddit. What someone might deem an attack, you might not. Whether it's an insult depends on the individual.

What you're doing is opening a huge bag of worms in the future. You've now accepted full responsibility for all comments to not be personal attacks.

You're going to receive thousands of messages from users who will say, 'That's an attack. Delete it'. or 'Restore my deleted message because that wasn't an attack'.

Eventually the work load will grow too much and you'll wind up introducing a bot which scans and deletes offending comments by keywords. Then users will flag it to be reviewed and restored. After which users will revolt yelling "censorship" but it's a rule to not offend the subreddit or its mods.

Before you know it, this subreddit is dead and we find out that this was the plan all along. This subreddit had been infiltrated by the illuminati who managed to hack the original sovereignmans account.

Or maybe you do really care about everyone's feelings. This is r/conspiracy after all.

Having a standard of conduct isn't safe space rubbish.

Just like SJWs are taking the whole "I'm offended" thing too far, you're taking the "everything should be legal" thing too far.

Conspiracy is a underwhelming minority compared to the general reddit population so if we don't have standards of conduct here, we get brigaded and the exact people who hate this subreddit get to control the conversation.

Having a standard of conduct isn't safe space rubbish.

Yes it fucking is. Who the fuck cares if someone offends me with a comment, I read it and move on. Plain and simple. You are limiting free speech with this PC garbage, and it is VERY SJWish of the mods here to do it.

This used to be the bastion of free speech on Reddit. I'm starting to get concerned now. Are you getting pressure from your overlords to limit free speech /u/FlyTape? If I call someone a shill, who am I really hurting? I am invading someone's "safe space"? Who really gives a fuck? This PC SJW bull shit is leaking into /r/conspiracy and IT HAS TO STOP! Nobody should fucking care if they are called a shill or a troll, unless they are actually a shill a troll.

Fuck any and all limits on Free Speech, period. That's how I feel at least. Thanks for letting me rant.

The irony of censorship on our sub, it seems to me, should be self-evident at this point.

yeah Ghostofdusty wants to censor conspiracy.

don't say "our" like there aren't clearly a pair of dictators.

I've had almost the same conversation with SovereignMan already and he was threatening to ban me for "attacking him" after I called him a shill defender because his actions help to protect them more than everyone else here.

We value our freedom to express whatever is on our minds, and to have open, honest, intellectual conversations and debates. And the shills just want us to shut up.

I've yet to personally experience any Rule 10 enforcement here that has benefited anyone other than the shills here. Has anyone?

The rule, frankly, is not one ever of sevice to the sub or its members. Do you know there is only one type of user who fears being called out and accused of being a shill? I know I certainly don't fear it. A simple review of my posting history will paint a crystal clear picture. Interestingly enough, it will also do exactly the same for a known shill. Yes, it's dismissive. But if you can bring a valid argument to the table, your debates are always welcome. The shills here refuse evidence based debate. Their disinfo and lies will never stand scrutiny. Truth however, will stand freely on its own. Every single time.

Our moderation team refuses to address the key problems facing our sub. The ones that destroy us just a little further every single day. Topics are still shill mass downvoted, when simple solutions could be filled out to prevent this. Scumbag shills, the exact same usual suspects anyone even marginally paying attention can spot from a mile away, are allowed to operate here without a single care in the world. Accuse them of being a shill, and back it with evidence, and your post is immediately censored. They can pack hunt with their alts or "friends" and nothing is done. The selective rule enforcement here should be for the benefit and protection of the contributing members of /r/conspiracy. NOT the shills who constantly attack us.

Does this look fair to anyone here? https://modlog.github.io/#/r/conspiracy. Where 80% of the moderation (see: censorship) is done by one single moderator?

What I continue to find most intriguing are the people who actually support this heavy handed moderation of our sub. It's almost exclusively people who most of us here have already identified as being external influences. Not the actual contributors here themselves. They despise this selective censorship. They do not agree that Rule 10 helps anyone here BUT the shills. It's so blatantly obvious sometimes, that its drifted well beyond the ridiculous to absurd. Are the biggest threats to our sub on the inside? Destroying us from the inside out?

Do you know there is only one type of user who fears being called out and accused of being a shill? I know I certainly don't fear it. A simple review of my posting history will paint a crystal clear picture. Interestingly enough, it will also do exactly the same for a known shill. Yes, it's dismissive. But if you can bring a valid argument to the table, your debates are always welcome. The shills here refuse evidence based debate. Their disinfo and lies will never stand scrutiny. Truth however, will stand freely on its own. Every single time.

Well said. This is exactly I feel, I wish I could have verbalized it as well as you just did.

Fuck any and all limits on Free Speech, period. That's how I feel at least. Thanks for letting me rant.

I don't think you should limit free speech, but if you're going to have a debate then there should be certain rules to ensure it stays a debate and doesn't descend into a slanging match or a battle of the bullshitters. Most of the attacks come from the shills and the trolls anyway. We've just got to try not to get sucked into their game, which can be difficult when they're being as ruthlessly nasty as possible, I grant you.

I think online debate needs a better set of rules than deciding who wins based on a vote though. The voting system has been proven far too easy to abuse by the brigaders. I've been hit for about 50-60 karma tonight, which is no big deal, but I think a system where you can disqualify someone from a particular thread for making up bullshit is needed. If someone is openly distorting the facts, then I think that's an even bigger problem than being called names. If there is no (rule-based) discrimination between truth and falsehood then we're pretty much inviting shills to post propaganda and upvote it.

Conspiracy is a underwhelming minority compared to the general reddit population so if we don't have standards of conduct here, we get brigaded and the exact people who hate this subreddit get to control the conversation.

You have a fair point there.

How many users accuse you of banning them unfairly Flytape?

Honestly, just about every person banned finds a way to justify their actions and vilify the mods actions.

The issue is, generally people who contribute here don't respond to commands or mandates from authority. You should understand more than anyone that any rule you create will be manipulated to benefit certain types of people and punish others, just like in our own governments, societies, etc.

Why ban a user at all? Does it really degrade the value of this subreddit to have them here? Why does the downvote arrow exist? Does banning people actually work? Seems to me its a giant waste of time and if we just fact check each other we should be fine? The community inevitably will always self-police, exactly like it should.

Why ban a user at all? Does it really degrade the value of this subreddit to have them here?

I wish we didn't have to, but yes some people degrade the value of this subreddit by obsessively doing nothing but attacking the people who are trying to talk about stuff and things.

Does banning people actually work?

50/50 depends on the person and how motivated they are.

Why does the down vote arrow exist?

I can only answer this question with a question... Why do vote brigades exist?

Seems to me its a giant waste of time and if we just fact check each other we should be fine? The community inevitably will always self-police, exactly like it should.

I honestly wish it worked that way, this community and what it stands for is so reviled on reddit that we can't count on being able to police ourselves given that there are so many super smart people on reddit that insist on policing us from outside the community.

why not use the down arrow? we seem to be good at that.

Who. The. Fuck. Cares.

Because its hard to find the 10 on topic comments in an ocean of hundreds of insults and flame wars. It used to be that way, SRD would link in and dozens of shot posters would show up and start insulting everyone in just about every thread. The insults would get voted up to the top and the decent comments would be sitting at -40 votes... virtually impossible to find.

I don't understand why anyone would want to go back to those days unless THAT is why you're here in the first place.

This is one of many inconveniences that they will use to control us. I don't doubt that they were probably the ones that set up this scenario. It would be extremely easy to play both sides in order to create chaos and detract from the real discussions.

Those were also the days when we didn't have to weed through dozens of back-and-forth personal attack comments just to get to a comment that was on topic.

We're under attack from the Hasbara brigade, bro. When you see personal attacks and threads being derailed, you know they're here. Just read through some of my posting history tonight. Dozens of accounts appearing, all with the sole purpose of attacking Islam and anybody who defends Islam.

As I've mentioned before, it's very difficult to stay calm and not fire back when they're swarming you. I had to log off and come back again so I didn't lose my tempter. Even then I was borderline, since I called one or two of them bigots, which is completely true, but I suppose can also be interpreted as a personal attack.

P.S. Thanks for being cool with me since I've been back, btw. Really appreciate it. And sorry we fell out.

I read through their comments, you are not getting brigaded by the Hezbollah. It's fairly clear they are just regular people starting a debate. And don't get offended when someone rebuts any claim of yours. Be pleased someone is actually taking the time to invite you with conversation. Be nice in conversation. That way if they get angry then you both know they're wrong.

I read through their comments, you are not getting brigaded by the Hezbollah. It's fairly clear they are just regular people starting a debate.

Hasbara, not Hezbollah. Omg. Lol.

It's fairly clear you are here to start an argument and are not here to debate the facts. Your name says it all. You are a troll. And one who doesn't even know the difference between Hasbara and Hezbollah. Lol.

You know what I meant, quit being a jackass about it. When you saw my innocent mistake you were ready to feast upon it like a wolf rather than clarify it with me. This is exactly what the media does. You instantly conclude, from my error and my username that I am a troll, yet I have done nothing wrong but point out your flaws? You do realize not all people who disagree with you are out to get you, right? But go ahead and believe me to be a troll. You can believe me to be a shapeshifting lizard woman for all I care, just don't act upon those superstitions or you may find yourself on the wrong side of the ban hammer.

You know what I meant, quit being a jackass about it.

Myself, I assumed your autocorrect chose Hezbollah as that is very common. Mine does the same thing every single time I type 'hasbara.' The reason for that being the term 'hasbara' is really only common amongst the 'megaphone' types of yesteryear.

You know what I meant, quit being a jackass about it.

You meant to act like a jackass, so I have no problem exploiting your ignorance. Sorry.

You instantly conclude, from my error and my username that I am a troll

There are always multiple signs that someone is a troll. I don't rely on any one in particular, but rather the total weight of the evidence against you. In your personal case: A) I remember you; B) You are making up lies (i.e. "I read through your comments", "it's fairly clear they are just regular people" etc...); C) You began your post with an attack; D) You ended your post with an attack; E) Your username; F) Your general argumentative attitude.

F) Your general argumentative attitude

F) Your general argumentative attitude

Yeah, that one probably applies to me too. Lol.

At least you're honest, upvote for you :)

Dozens of accounts appearing, all with the sole purpose of attacking Islam and anybody who defends Islam.

I'm not a supporter of the Hasbara people, as everyone here knows. Jews hate my guts for speaking the truth about them. But how can you or anyone else defend Islam? I honestly don't see how that is possible, after what has been happening the past few weeks. I've given up making excuses for Islam. They need to be rooted out of Western countries and banished, period. Islam is a disease as we can only stay healthy by purging it from Christian nations.

I'm not a supporter of the Hasbara people, as everyone here knows. Jews hate my guts for speaking the truth about them. But how can you or anyone else defend Islam?

Islam doesn't need to be defended, bro. It's just a belief system. It doesn't turn you into a rapist or a paedophile.

I defend what I perceive to be the truth. That applies to Islam and everything else.

I honestly don't see how that is possible, after what has been happening the past few weeks

What has been happening the past few weeks is that Mossad have again been killing civilians, again been trying to frame Muslim extremists for what they have done, and again been stoking up Islamaphobia in the media.

Islam is a disease as we can only stay healthy by purging it from Christian nations.

Religion is the disease, and you appear to be in the late stages of infection.

Those were also the days when we didn't have to weed through dozens of back-and-forth personal attack comments just to get to a comment that was on topic.

I don't remember those days. Musta been before my time.

Also the days were the post titles actually matched up with what the articles were about.

I would like to report this thread for not using the report link to report rules violations but instead making a post about it.

Shit, I'm doing the same thing.

Fuck, are we allowed to swear?

Don't forget rules 2 and 10.

hi guys!

You are banned for politeness.

Have an upvote, that made me laugh lol, thanks.

I dont get it

Censorship most certainly is not the way. It's as clear as day that our "rules" are used just like the default subs to censor what the mods don't agree with. We've seen that our leadership team here refuses to take any action to remove (or even inconvenience) the pack hunting shills who manipulate votes, attack /r/conspiracy members, refuse any form of debate, advocate the same bullshit lies people are inundated 24/7 with via their televisions/radios/newspapers/magazines/corrupted social media sites - and act contrarian at every step. The shills run rampant and unabated, while any non-direct mention of shills gets immediately censored and removed.

I recently requested that someone/anyone address how simple, common sense changes to how we operate can be used to slow the steady destruction of /r/conspiracy here. As many have remarked, a significant number of our most beneficial contributors have simply left (or were unfairly banned, for that matter). It's becoming more and more clear that certain elements in our leadership are part of why /r/conspiracy is sinking just as fast as the whole of Reddit is. Instead of focusing on what would benefit us all as a sub, they are actively working their own personal agendas as the top priority, while apparently turning a blind eye to the influx of attack shills.

Again, I feel I have to once again state that this is NOT an attack on the sub, any specific moderator, or any specific member of /r/conspiracy. This is simply a request for open and honest dialogue, so we can all work together to make /r/conspiracy as great as we all know it can be. A wonderful pocket of free speech and open and honest debate, in an otherwise locked down prison of a failing social website.

No, it's actually based solely on the fear that YOU will interpret it as an attack, and delete/censor and/or ban. The only submissions I've ever had censored here were 1) By you, and 2) In my eyes, entirely unjust. It's sad that I have to use such attempted protections when simply just desiring to openly and publicly debate what is catastrophically failing our sub.

As to the rules being changed, I think that's a great idea. A Constitutional Convention of sorts, in an attempt to right what is wrong. What is failing our sub and her members.

To answer your other one-off questions, personally I don't agree with ANY censorship here. I do not agree with or support any deletion of anything other than PI, doxx attempts, ACTUAL racism, child porn, and other illegal material. Outside or this, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING should be forcefully censored. The members should be free to decide what is or isn't for them, themselves alone. This is exactly how real life works. NOT with all corners softened and threats removed and sanitised. We're all adults here.

The labeling of anyone as a shill should NEVER be a problem. As I said in an earlier posting, labeling someone as a shill is very dismissive OF THE PERSON. That's why we're not debating or attacking people here (that's the shills forum disruption technique, not ours - attack the user). We're discussing/debating concepts and ideas. The ideas, regardless or how anyone labels you or how you label them, are all that really matter here. The shill label by others shouldn't ever adversely affect the evidence based discussion/debate itself. I've called out quite a few blatantly obvious shills in my days. They've attempted to turn the tables and parrot back the exact same accusation on me. The key difference being, it doesn't ever affect me in the slightest. My points will stand regardless. Their disinfo and cointelpro attempts however are instantly neutralized by such a label. Their "truths" will not stand on their own, as mine do.

As mentioned previously, there is only one group who fears being identified as a shill. I certainly don't, because anyone can easily view my posting history and see exactly what I promote and/or dismiss. As you've implied, I have absolutely no problems with this. I don't fear it. I don't run from it. It's 100% irrelevant to the discussion we're having. It doesn't soften my position. It doesn't weaken any of the points I've made. Rule 10 does not serve /r/conspiracy or her contributors in any fashion. It's long overdue that we reevaluate its standing here.

Great discussion, /u/SovereignMan. Thank you for finally responding, sir.

I think his suggestion was a good idea, if you feel things need to be changed then do some work to make it better and start backing up your claims with actual input so you actually have to thing this through. If you dont feel this is a good idea then dont complain. You have been offered a chance to make this better and you are complaining about it.

Complaining? It would benefit you greatly to accurately keep up with the conversation here.

As to the rules being changed, I think that's a great idea. A Constitutional Convention of sorts, in an attempt to right what is wrong. What is failing our sub and her members.

Rule 10 - ...Accusing another user of being a troll or shill can be viewed as an attack, depending on context. When you can provide evidence of a person (or their relatives/friends) benefiting financially from their posts or comments and call them a shill then it would not be a problem. However, when you can't provide such evidence you also can't call them a shill.

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2012/11/the-15-rules-of-web-disruption-2/ - See item #3

I'm sorry, but this is an absolutely unreasonable requirement. We are not privy to users tax documents (hitting close to home? That ae911truth financing we've all heard about). Nor is this the only means of solidly indicating whether or not someone is a shill. Is anything of the sort required for /r/hailcorporate IDs and call outs? I thought as much. Based on consistent behavior, one can easily identify the likely shills and their let topics.

It is our responsibility and duty to each other and the community to call out shills. We are inundated constantly with attack shills. With pack hunting, mass downvoting, contrarian "conspiracies don't exist" assholes who refuse to debate us, and who serve absolutely no beneficial purpose to our sub. There are no other subs that so readily tolerate such adversarial antagonism and harassment against their users. We're here to openly discuss CONSPIRACIES. Not to have lowlifes come in and work their way down the disruption techniques listed out above - (this and this.

Your personal interpretation of the rule has shifted its enforcement entirely. What was once in place as a rule to prevent member abuse...the regular personal attacking of /r/conspiracy memebers through repeatedly calling them shills, while refusing to debate their points has been changed, primarily and almost exclusively BY YOU to now mean that even just a simple mention of a shill accusation is now an automatic infringement of Rule 10, somehow worthy of complete censorship. No "attack" Or evaluation of the context is ever required. Say they're a shill, and it's an attack by default.

I don't know where you're getting that /r/conspiracy is somehow BETTER now, or as you put it, has "increased massively in quality and quantity" due to the enforcement of our rules. Perhaps when used in response to the number of contrarian "conspiracies don't exist" shills and their alts, and the attacks they bring against our members. Though in regards to the ability to have shill-free, open discussions about certain controversial topics (eg. the many frequent staged shootings/bombings/demolitions, false flag events), I physically couldn't disagree with you more.

In the many years I've called /r/conspiracy my home on Reddit (originally joined a few years prior to, but really started fully becoming involved just a few short months prior to the absolute implosion then massive exodus from Digg [thanks heavily to the xio shill corruption that ran rampant there, much like what we're experiencing here on /r/conspiracy yet again now]), I've never seen more top contributors simply leave or be banned for highly debatable reasons. The most valuable and beneficial members of our sub. The very people we would want to hang on to. Gone, I speculate is largely thanks to lax enforcement of common sense rules that would prevent those who wish to silence our public discussions, and attacks on those who have the gall to speak up.

The heavy handed and highly subjective enforcement of our rules has not built a stronger community here. It has fractured us, and has negatively impacted the quality of discussion and personal interaction here. People are afraid to speak up. They're afraid to contribute, because of the fear or being attacked by so many outsiders to our community. Who are frely permitted to harass. I cannot physically fathom how you would believe anything to the contrary.

So let me break this down, so we can all get this straight. What you're telling us here with this apologist nonsense is that mass vote manipulation, the pack hunting attack shills, and the constant barrages by the "conspiracies don't exist" fools means absolutely nothing (remember: what you permit, you promote!). And that the ONLY ISSUE OF IMPORTANCE to our community as a whole is the complete removal of any and all shill accusations (unless, of course, you possess the entirely unreasonable requirement of financial documents that PROVE that someone is recognizing financial gain for the lies they are spreading here). Literally above all else. That the major concerns for our sub are meaningless, and as long as people (see: actual shills) aren't being labeled as shills, otherwise everything here is moving along swimmingly...

I honestly don't know how to respond to this. Other than to tell you that what you view as the critical concerns that are destroying our community more and more each and every day is so far off base that I don't know if I can even believe that you believe it yourself. Such a skewed perception, that very few in this thread would/will ever agree this is the case. But mark my words. We can revisit exactly this in a few days after others have weighed in on their take.

On a mostly unrelated note, I can't help but feel my spidey senses tingling...almost jumping out of my skin here. I recently had an encounter with someone who was clearly shilling a certain heavily shipped topic on our sub. Ceaselessly, for hour after hour after hour. It was absolutely clear what his motives and intentions were (no need for tax documents showing who was paying for this effort). And wouldn't you know, the only "evidence" valid in his eyes was EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE ATTEMPTING TO REQUIRE HERE. What are the chances that both you and he would demand the exact same unreasonable (and largely, impossible to ever provide) evidence. Hmmmm...

I agree with this so much, bravo.

It amazes me how immediately silencing basically anyone that says shill has seem to become their #1 priority.

And how astroturfing is finally being popularly realized and they seem to want to ignore it or give off the impression that it doesn't exist or isn't an issue.

We are supposed to be leading the fight against this tactic and the people behind it by discussing it, providing information on it, and making more people aware of it. It's no longer a conspiracy. Instead, we have rule #10.

the definition of shill is like the definition of porn, you know it when you see it. if you mods are knowingly letting the assholes ply their trade here because they dont matchup to the dictionary definition of a word used as slang for disruptive and or antagonistic posters then you need to redefine the rule or the definition. and dont go assuming its just a few of us who question your actions, or lack thereof, versus the usual suspects around here. some of whom have been working this board for a year or more

nice try but there are no shills for non-gmo or alternate healthcare. if you find any, by all means ban them too.

Aside from that, after all of the complaints in this post about Rule 10 being "censorship" and people should be able to say anything here, shouldn't "shills" have the right to voice their opinions freely too? (As long as they abide by our rules)

wow did you really just say that?

when the users can spot shills and the mods can't we have a problem, which is exactly the point. a good place to start might be a real definition of "shill", as it is used here, not as oxford english defined it 200years ago. if shill is the wrong word lets decide on what the right one is, and apply it.

i hope you mods are reading this topic heading, abiding by and applying the rules is your job. if the rules dont work we need new ones. look how many upvotes this thread has, 13 currently, that tell you anything?

people are free to voice whatever they want - right upto the point it becomes obvious they are pushing an antagonistic agenda or willfully undermining this community, then they get shown the door

[removed]

I agree with that. Which is why I have never reported a single one of them. After all, the discussion helps to develop more awareness and knowledge.

I feel that they should legally have to put down disclaimers, but until then, we have to stay in defensive mode and share our impressions when we get them, so that we can try to protect others from possibly being deceived. It's simply additional information for others to be aware of, since many haven't had the time to really browse through their histories or analyze their behavior, and there are just too many of them to keep track of. We have to work together.

You keep arguing about our rules but you still haven't submitted a new post with your own version of what the rules should be. Unless and until you have some positive input, this argument is useless.

He very clearly said the rule should be removed.

You asked about what is a shill? To answer the question YOU ASK, I think overtly being obtuse is a sign of a paid poster, troll, or shill.

Sounds like a good idea. Thanks for being positive about this and making the person who wants the changes do some actual work to make /r/conspiracy better.

If someone's not engaging in honest debate and just trolling then the best thing to is not waste your time on them

Fuck that. If someone has a history of shilling or trolling here get the ban hammer out so the people here don't have to waste their time on them.

This sub is for people to discuss conspiracy. Not conspiracy debate.

If they want to troll or shill, they can go to Top Minds. That is what that sub is for. Trolls, shills, and people banned from conspiracy.

But who determines what is shilling and trolling?

I think interdimensional reptiles, Jewish cabals, satanic covens, government pedophile clubs, etc are nonsense and will argue against them.

Someone who passionately believes in them will call me a shill, troll, whatever

The mods should determine that from the "shill reports".

Watch "Conspiracy of Silence" and google it to research the controvercy behind it and tell me how the pedophille clubs are nonsense.

Satanism cabals are real. Google Aleister Crowley.

Believing those are nonsense is your choice. But those who have spent a lot of time researching them and know otherwise should not be have to educate someone that has not or does not want to be educated.

If you haven't been to Top Minds, check them out. You will probably like it there.

I don't mind intelligent debate, but when a person by choice does not want to accept facts or reality for what ever reason should not waste the time of people who have accepted those ugly facts and are trying to deal with them.

If you want to argue or debate conspiracy's, or strongly believe against them, there is a debate conspiracy sub and Top Minds.

That's my opinion any way, and don't expect it to have any influence on you, the same way yours has no influence on me.

Again to answer your question, the mods should determine shilling or trolling.

I don't need to google Crowley. The man was a clown.

The satanic panic witch hunts from the 80s and 90s were a circus side show that subjected innocent people to court room show trials and locked up 3 teenages in Arkansas for 20 years. The DA had an expert witness on cults who got his degree from a diploma mill. His medical examiner couldn't identify a snapping turtles bite. His police accepted without question the word of a thief trying to plea bargain a reduced sentence.

Crowley was also part of a satanic cabal the used drugs and had orgies and worse. Nothing against it if that is your cup of tea. But they do exist. Even if you think they are nonsense.

Crowley had influence over a lot of the music and occult culture long after his death. I don't like him, agree with his beliefs, but he is hardly a clown. Not to mention possibly the father of Barbara Bush. That is a clown family, so maybe I shouldn't use that reference to rebut you.

Conspiracy of Silence was paid not to air by the Republican Party. That is a fact. No debate about it.

Cathy O'Brien is another person that brings a piece to what apparently is a picture of a pedophile puzzle.

Say what you will about her, she comes off as honest and sincere, even though her story is hard to believe.

Putting the pieces together any one with brain one would come to that conclusion.

If some one has reviewed the evidence about the pedo rings and don't believe they exist either -

A. Don't want to accept it because their brains cant deal with it.

B. Too stupid to put it together or see it.

or

C. Have been paid speak against it by the sick fucks that promise them them a ticket to Valhalla, then laugh when you believe them.

There is plenty of other evidence out there. Again if you don't want to see or believe it, that is up to you. But just don't pretend to have expertise on things you haven't took the time to research both sides of the argument.

Seriously, check out Top Minds. Leave the conspiracy talk for the ones who can accept ugly truths and try and deal with them. I swear that will be right up your alley.

It's a bunch of former Mensa members and people from other think tanks.....

Ok maybe not, but you will still enjoy it and fit right in.

Peace.

Sorry you had a run-in with the (Sovereign) Man. Thanks for your excellent post; I hope especially your bolded last paragraph is read by Reddit's panjumdrums...

"We are censoring behavior not free speech" You are trolling everyone and calling them names you are not allowed to talk. Wtf. Freedom has its downsides. I'd rather weed through and waste me time going thru insults and hate speech knowing I have freedom of it. Censorship is censorship thicken your skin. Peoples perceptions of what should constitute free speech are alwasy different so it can only be free with no rules.

We can't criticise religion?

"New moderators"?

I don't know why people take issue with this rule. It discredits all of us when someone uses ignorant slurs

There is a narrow line between slurs and free speech. Those who wish to limit the free speech of others will often accuse them of using hateful slurs. This tactic is used over and over by Jew and blacks, particularly, because it has proven to be most effective when used by Jews and blacks.

The distinction I make in my own posts is to try always to avoid personal slurs directed at fellow Redditors. However, I do post harsh criticisms of blacks, Jews, women, homosexuals, and other groups who have come to consider themselves privileged and protected. All of my criticisms and insults of these groups, or of celebrity spokespersons of these groups, I consider well-deserved and truthful.

We don't allow the use of hateful slurs against ethnic groups, gender groups, religious groups or social groups because it derails actual legitimate discussion of the OP. It never adds anything to the conversation. You can criticize whatever groups you want, as soon as you use hateful, degrading slurs you have traipsed into the realm of hate speech which is not protected by any laws or constitutions at all, anywhere in the US or abroad.

Okay.

How Reddit Was Destroyed

Thanks for your post; being fairly new, I didn't realize how many steps backward Reddit has taken since losing the 'Internet Boy'.

Sounds reasonable.

But what about the occasion where the person you are corresponding with is a troll or shill? Or has a history of doing so?

That type of account activity does more to damage this sub than calling them out in an exchange of ideas.

There should be a "report shill" button next to the report button. Since the rules state not to call them out.

Then when someone gets so many shill reports, and their comment history backs that up, get the ban hammer out.

This sub was designed for people to discuss conspiracies.

If people want to shill or troll, let them go to the Top Mind circle jerks so they can console each other about being banned from conspiracy.

That is what Top Minds is for right?

lol, did you really just put a np link to a wiki on the rules? Why not just copy pasta them here?

This has got to be the worst stickied post in the history of /r/conspiracy. You Failed /u/SovereignMan.

Even worse than that time when that Hitler documentary was there?

what was wrong with that? it is a well made and important documentary

http://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

Its trash, Neo-Nazi propaganda, the threads it was posted in were filled with hate speech and Neo-Nazi brigading. It made a mockery of the sub and literally haunts the subs reputation to this day. The lack of self awareness some people have is astounding to me.

you slipped neonazi into a sentence twice, goodjob. no its not trash, what it is is an alternate viewpoint.

haunts this sub

rofl, let the butthurt flow thru you!

TRUTH SPILL ON AISLE 9!

Its Neo-Nazi propaganda pushed by the FBI and CIA you're unbelievably gullible if you think the Nazis were good people and that Hitler was the savior of the white race. If you believe that, you're religious and i have a right to criticize and ridicule what you believe. The white supremacists bullshit that gets pushed onto the truth movement is FBI, CIA, Mossad disinfo and propaganda. Its a honey trap for weak minded collectivists.

As a non white contributor to this sub who has looked into the Holohoax, the Nazis were good people. All of those trash propaganda pictures that show Nazis executing people were in fact Russian Bolsheviks. Check it out for yourself. https://youtu.be/8djIHQS4kyQ

It is Nazi warfare law to not pillage or harm civilians and provide aid to those in need such as Erwin Rommel. General Erwin Rommel found himself several times behind Allied lines. On one occasion, he stumbled across an allied field hospital. They were low on supplies and he promised to bring medical supplies, after which he drove off unhindered. Later he returned with the promised medical supplies. This is one of the reasons why they lost the war.

The more you look into WW2 the more backwards you find out your life of propaganda turns out to be.

The Nazis were thugs who murdered their way into power, basically right wing terrorists that took over a gigantic plot of land with incredible military potential. They legit murdered 22 million humans and they would have made the entire slavic region a feudal vassal state. The fact that you sympathize with white supremacists is unfortunate, the fact that you think these particular white supremacists meant well is lamentable. There's absolutely no basis for biological race and nationalism is a cancerous disease, which engenders the most vicious kind of social policies. There was nothing positive about the Nazi party and most of the information you've seen is Neo-Nazi, CIA propaganda. You wanna know why the CIA behaves like a right wing, renegade entity? Its run by former Nazis, Paperclip wasn't just scientists they took dozens if not hundreds of intelligence officers. Many of them were the torture experts and mind control researchers the Third Reich had been amassing for the purposes of controlling their new Empire. They were Imperialists, no different from the Napoleonic French or Elizabethan Brits.

Wow. I don't think any amount of reasoning can reverse the amount of Zionist propaganda you've absorbed.

You don't still believe in the Holohoax do you?

Lol Jesus Christ

Cole admitted that between 300,000-1.5 million Jews died in the camps. I find it fascinating that the Neo-Nazis never bother to talk about the 6 million Slavs, Masons, Homosexuals, Disabled, Elderly, Political prisoners and Russians that were murdered. Or the tens of thousands of political enemies that were murdered under the third reich by the Gestapo and Brown Shirts...

So source me some evidence to this Final Solution. You obiously know of the Holohoax so why do you still believe the Final Solution?

Gestapo is a French term for German Police btw.

Here is an excerpt you should read about the Nuremberg trials: Of course, the Soviets actually committed the Katyn Forest Massacre (mass murder of around 22,000 Poles in April and May 1940), although they did not admit it until 1990.

At Nuremberg, the Soviets also attempted to convict the Germans of mass extermination of Jews (and others) at the internment camps inside of Germany. Years later, even historians and Holohoax propagandists had to admit that no homicidal gassings or mass exterminations took place in the German camps located on German soil, and the story shifted to the German camps in Poland (which the Soviets controlled after the war, and where little to no investigation into the claims was allowed).

The following is an excerpt from "An Introduction to Holocaust Revisionism" by Tom Moran, an excellent article/primer, even for those not new to Holocaust™ revisionism.

Evil beyond contempt

The Katyn Forest is an area in Poland were the Soviets had massacred thousands of Polish cadre. When the Germans wrested control from the Soviets they were informed of thousands being driven out to the forest never to be seen again. The Germans located the mass graves and did a forensic archeological investigation. At the Nuremberg trials where the Soviets sat as prosecutors and judges themselves they introduced the massacre as a German crime and the Allied members allowed it even though they knew who really did it, which tells us something ugly about the nature of the trials. Super exemplifying the basic mode of Holocaust evidence, the Soviets submitted a report hundreds of pages long totally founded on "eyewitness" accounts. The reality eventually surfaced in the form of an extant German report, complete with photographs of the excavation as it was happening along with foreign forensic experts and journalists invited and Allied POW officers brought in to witness the scene, all photographed at the scene.  With the advent of Glasnost the Soviets eventually came to admit to the crime.

The German report stands ironically and poetically as the only real documented forensic investigation ever performed on any mass grave stemming from the WW II era.

Nuremberg Tribunal

The incident of the Katyn Forest being introduced to the Nuremberg Tribunal stands as monolithic evidence that the trials were a farce. In addition to that one grand indictment the determinations of the Tribunal also included finding the defendants guilty of mass extermination at camps in Germany, since erased from the story, and the 4,000,000 number for Auschwitz currently 1,000,000. Inquiring minds have gone over the records of the trials and the case for a kangaroo court is outstanding.

Source: http://exposing-the-holocaust-hoax-archive.blogspot.com/2009/10/glaring-evidence-of-farce-that-was.html?m=1

Now read this about the Wannsee Conference.

Gilad Atzmon – gilad.co.uk January 31, 2012

Last week, as Jewish Lobbies continue to invest enormous efforts in dictating and imposing a rigid and unquestionable Holocaust narrative, Israeli Haaretz published a short, succinct and courageous report challenging the validity of the Wannsee Conference as proof of the Nazi ‘final solution’.

Just ahead of Holocaust Memorial Day, the Israeli paper reported that Dr. Norbert Kampe (63), director of the “Wannsee Conference” Memorial  Centre in Berlin, has challenged some of the most widely-accepted historical ‘facts’ associated with the conference and its meaning.

Jewish Holocaust scholars have always insisted that the master plan for the Nazi Judeocide was conceived at the Wannsee Conference but Dr. Kampe is quoted as saying that the conference dealt only with “operational matters” instead of being a platform of any form of “decision making”. To prove his point, Kampe pointed to the fact that Hitler and his ministers were not present at the conference. Furthermore, he says, “At the time, January 1942, there was no organized plan for extermination camps.”

And yet, Haaretz admits:

“Make no mistake. Kampe is not anti-Semitic. Certainly not a Holocaust denier. On the contrary. As expected of a professional historian, he studied countless relevant texts, documents and testimonies on the particular event…His conclusion is the direct outcome of an educated analysis of written material in his possession.”

So courageously, a Hebrew paper praises Kampe and his “fascinating historical lesson” and also acknowledges that the Israeli Ministry of Education lacks the capacity to engage in any form of informed Holocaust debate. Haaretz clearly admits that

“to this day no one knows with complete certainty and confidence what exactly happened on 20 January 1942, in this pretty villa in the wealthy suburb of Berlin.”

Only one copy of the Wansee Conference protocol, found in 1947, survived the war, others having been deliberately destroyed by the Nazis in an effort to conceal evidence. This protocol is the only authentic documentation as to what happened in Wannsee and one of the few that made explicit use of the term “final solution”. However, Haaretz concedes that, like any historical document, the Wannsee document should be read carefully. The words “death” or “murder” do not appear in the conference protocol. Instead, it refers to “natural diminution”, “appropriate treatment”, “other solution options” and “different forms of solutions.” In fact, the only explicit references in the document deal with deportation rather than extermination. Even the famous table attached to the protocol that counts the Jews in each occupied country, does not state that those Jews are destined to be destroyed.

Just a few days ahead of Holocaust Memorial Day, a Hebrew paper found the courage to admit that “decades of Holocaust research could not find a clear and explicit command made by high-level Nazi officials to engage in systematic mass extermination of Jews.”

According to the Israeli paper, the Nazis disguised their true intentions in some “ambiguous orders and “secret codes”, which were supposed to lead officers to interpret and to react upon what they believed to be Hitler’s will.

The moral here is simple. Once again we learn that some Israelis are far ahead of the Western press and academia in their criticism of Jewish ideology in general and the Zionist Holocaust narrative in particular.

When all the credibility of the only 2 sources of evidence for a Final Solution is basically dead end claims, why do you believe in it? Too much Jewish media? Too much Hollywood WW2 movies? Too much History Channel?

I'm not reading history from a Neo-Nazi blog. The Germans invaded Poland, they invaded multiple nations and took over the entirety of France. Not to liberate German citizens, not to fight the evil central bankers, which they did absolutely nothing about in Germany. It was to expand German territory. They were wars of conquest, they may have been agitated into their wars. But they took over the land, took immense financial and natural resources from every nation they invaded and then set up puppet regimes. That's not what a fucking hero does, that's what an Empire does. An empire that's expanding, i don't need to provide a single shred of evidence in this discussion. Your the one making ridiculous, illogic and unreasonable claims. Even if their was no holocaust, which there was, it would not excuse the brutal social policies, military expansion or massacring of civilians in Russia. You cannot excuse bombing London, bombing Spain to help Franco murder revolutionaries and civilians. Supporting Japans psychopathic Empire building in Asia and openly stoking racist resentment towards anyone that wasn't White or East Asian. The actions of the people responsible as well as the people who employed them, the British-American elite, are the actions of gangsters not liberators. They didn't fight a war against the bankers, the bankers funded the Nazi war machine and Fascism is predicated on the Upper and Middle classes uniting to attack minorities, foreigners, communists and the strongest Empire nearby. Its a war cult, a military religion and you basically fell head over heels for it. What differentiates the Nazis from the Allies? Very little, if anything so your bullshit Us vs them that they programmed into your subconscious won't work here.

So you've never heard of the Danzig Massacres which led to the invasion of Poland? You've never realized that there was never going to be a WW2 until the Allies formed and wanted a piece of the action and war profits? You do remember the US embargoed the Axis and allowed Pearl Harbor to happen right? You do realize that Germany stopped Russia from invading the rest of western Europe in Operation Barbarossa right? Oh and by the way. Do you know the number 1 reason the Allies were allies? Because they all had Rothschilds central banks.

Before 911, the countries that did not have Rothschild Central Banks were, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Sudan, North Korea, and Russia. Funny coincidence huh?

Russia and Germany always have had border disputes with Poland and this was one of those things.

How about you read from the top WW2 historian in the world, David Irving. https://youtu.be/UcBVkzpYznM

He was the only historian to gain the trust of Hitler’s Generals to write Hitler’s biography because he wrote an objective piece about the London bombings. He himself is British.

I think you should read more non propagated books to determine which reality of history is more factual. Your hollywood-esque Hitler Nazi boogeymen trying to take over the world version or the Revisionist version. You know Cole so you should definitely know Irving.

Also I asked 2 questions on the top and bottom of my previous comments. How convenient for you to dodge them.

Germany cooperated with the central banks and split Poland with the Soviets. Its really funny how you keep trying to side skirt the millions of Polish, Russian and Ukrainian civilians they killed. "To protect Europe" Operation Barbarossa took place after the Blitzkrieg and Soviets took over half of Europe anyway. They weren't protecting anyone.

i never said what i believe

personally i check the posters username first to establish if it is one of the numerous licenced trollshills the mods refuse to ban, then i know the content is going to be inflammatory trollish bullshit and skip past it, do not engage those assholes, dont even read their propaganda

mods : get rid of "the usual suspects" and prove this place isn't captured

hello. for number 10 rule:

10 - Posts that attack the sub, users or mods will be removed. Accusing another of being a troll or shill is considered an attack. Repeat offenders are subject to a ban.

this one we need to be allowed to do. What if we include their own shilling words as proof? This is conspiracy forum and paid trolls on the internet are a conspiracy theory, well it is proven to exist but on each case by case basis it'd be a theory as to who is shilling.

[deleted]

I sometimes do this though, if I'm reading news I'll paste some decent addresses to post here later, no spam intended. People who do this and mostly only post the same youtube accounts repeatedly should probably be warned though.
Edit: downvoted by strangefiction, the_keystone and news24/7_live? Lol.

How can you tell who downvoted you?

[removed]

Well, they definitely do.

I think admins would know more about who upvotes/downvotes. It's too bad this is hidden from users.

With that info, they could finally destroy the vote manipulation that constantly occurs in /New. Its clearly not a priority for them, however. But calling other people shills....that's destroying our sub and is the most important rule that we have. You can only call someone a shill if you have tax forms proving they benefited financially from their disinfo efforts here.

Yea I understand. That rule is quite stupid. Nobody can call me a shill because they will look up my post history and know that I support the people against the tyrannical governments. But if a real shill were to be called out, then people will look up their post histories to find them always defending the government line, omg, we can't let that happen! I also find that the forum slide/vote rigging is a big issue destroying this sub. But, don't be so hung up about it. This was a sinking ship ever since Aaron Schwartz was taken out. Let's salvage the most we can. I certainly want to save some of the very well written posts here. Hopefully I can find the time to archive them. Cheers, pal.

PS: Does /r/conspiracy have a best of?

Who established these "rules" and can the community have a say in them?

Posts that attack this sub, users or mods thereof, will be removed. Accusing another user of being a troll or shill can be viewed as an attack, depending on context. Repeat offenders are subject to a ban.

In my opinion Rule 10 is dumb and cringeworthy considering the content in this subreddit. It can be applied arbitrarily and is the antithesis of the 1st Amendment.

Edit: please please do not delete/ban me because of this criticism. Thank you!

Because

Posts that attack this sub, users or mods thereof, will be removed.

I just called rule 10 dumb and arbitrarily enforced. It's an honest critique, but technically that violates rule 10 itself... :/ who made all these rules? [Serious] I hadn't even read through them all until this sticky :o

This whole sub is dumb for not moving on to a less shitty sub. And the moderators are dumb for focusing on fake problems. But not all is lost! we can become smart again by either moving to a better sub or encouraging moderators to focus on real problems. Yay solutions!

Sad you have to worry about being band for an opinion.

Reddit conspiracy is being censored! of course it is illegitimate! Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3OAfznx_RY

People "should be angry" because with all the spying in to personal lives / info could not stop any of these attacks. All they want is just more restrictions!

Humorous Yet Serious!

Dear Moderators r/conspiracy is constantly getting flooded by irrelevant, racist and none-conspiratorial anti Israel/Jewish posts. Pretty please do something about it! Yet it seems like you are more busy vote-rigging all the 9-11 posts. You delete all posts addressing massive crimes committed by the intelligence community. You constantly remove posts and news about the corrupting influence of the military industrial complex on our democracy. You can make posts about the corrupt political elite magically disappear in seconds. You blatantly censor posts about the corporate owned mass media, Reddit included. Yet it seem like you are completely unable or willing to do your bloody job and moderate the bloody r/conspiracy forum in a proper manner. Why?

This to me looks like controlled opposition: "Facebook is basically Satan. Links including "facebook" are automatically removed."

Why? Because Alex Jones said that Facebook is a CIA operation. /r/Conspiracy seems like controlled opposition and is probably also controlled by the U.S. government. So /r/Conspiracy being against Facebook is then controlled opposition. B.t.w. Alex Jones is also controlled opposition, but he does have interesting information sometimes so even /r/Conspiracy can be useful.

Oh, vey! Tell me #9 wasn't amended just for me.

Well damn, I didn't expect fair rules. Respect.

Did you just move up the whole derisive slurs thing up from the 8th rule or something to the first. And also use the 2nd to back it up.

Hahaha. Reddit is dead. It's kindergarten now.

No, he definitely didn't do that.

[deleted]

Without moderation this sub will devolve into 1-click memes and trollposts.

Small subs can get away with minimal moderation, larger ones cannot.

now we can't have anarchy in real life right but how about here on the internet. moderation ruins forums on internet, always has always will. let the forum sink or swim. if it gets full of trolls won't the market prevail and people downvote them?

If you'd been on reddit for a while, you would've seen the evolution of /r/atheism from being kinda crap, to exceptionally shit and now actually okay. All thanks to initially having bare moderation to now having moderation.

Moderation is necessary the larger a sub gets.

Unless dank maymes with little to no substantive discussion are your thing

Use the Report button people!

Also, calling people shills, zionists, etc doesn't fix things. It makes the accuser look stupid and doesn't really phase anyone anymore. It's becoming easier to tune out the more people point fingers. The trolling is obnoxious as well, and often involves calling someone the above mixed with derailing.

Report, downvote, whatever. Just quit with the finger pointing. This is a community about conspiracy. We need to remember who the real enemy here is, the political and corporate entities involved in usurping our rights and freedom.

Do you know there is only one type of user who fears being called out and accused of being a shill? I know I certainly don't fear it. A simple review of my posting history will paint a crystal clear picture. Interestingly enough, it will also do exactly the same for a known shill. Yes, it's dismissive. But if you can bring a valid argument to the table, your debates are always welcome. The shills here refuse evidence based debate. Their disinfo and lies will never stand scrutiny. Truth however, will stand freely on its own. Every single time.

Well said. This is exactly I feel, I wish I could have verbalized it as well as you just did.

yeah Ghostofdusty wants to censor conspiracy.

don't say "our" like there aren't clearly a pair of dictators.

F) Your general argumentative attitude

At least you're honest, upvote for you :)