Couldn't agree more I called that shit out immediately when I saw the media rush in. In what world has that ever been allowed ever? No crime scene has been raided by cameras like this. Nobody I know questions it everyone just rolls with the flow. It's sickening,

Not saying your wrong, but look up how evidence of JFK's assassination was handled.

Who's wrong?

But seriously, 9/11 with the immediate cleanup and disposal comes to mind as well.

...what?

Unless I'm somehow in an alternate universe, the clean up took YEARS.

By immediate cleanup you mean the years it took?

I think time has kind of smoothed over the grand effort it took to clean up and rebuild that area. People don't seem to remember just how long the search for survivors in the rubble lasted.

Not only just a search for survivors, the searches continued beyond a reasonable length of time to pull anybody trapped in the debris and rubble. Searches continued just hoping to find human remains to provide some sort of closure for the families of the victims of that terrible Tuesday morning.

[deleted]

Who's*

It's interesting because this is the equivalent of burning all the evidence. Now you can't use anything to truly connect them to the crimes, or admonish them. The truth can never be revealed after that.

Also, any evidence that survived JFK was burnt during the Boston bombing, so basically it's relevant, it'll be destroyed in one way or another.

Can you provide a source for the JFK evidence being destroyed in Boston?

http://news.yahoo.com/happened-bostons-jfk-library-002648282.html

[deleted]

...I think you forgot which sub you're in....

*You're

A real cop would be outside that apt. building doing recon for weeks after, much less allow anyone inside.

They used a robot to go through the garage because risk of explosive traps set, but they didn't do that to the house.

Hey op teddy. You haven't been active in over a year here. Why?

if you speak the truth when you post you can post once every ten years fine by me :) nice post.

Doesn't post for a year "hey join this fb group"

If you don't like new meeting new people you don't have to.

maybe out orchestrating psy ops? hmmm /s

Edit: forgot the ever important /s for sarcasm

[deleted]

link?

[deleted]

sounds like this issue needs a tissue.

Everyone has a master. Israel is Bernie's.

But hel tax billionaires no?

Really great attempt at proving your point, I always go with the "be a hostile douchebag" routine myself when I'm grasping at straws with literally zero evidence to back up my claims

Not to mention President General Butt Naked was on TV shilling for gungrabber laws the exact fucking moment the bodies hit the floor. Nobody is buying their bullshit anymore. Even soviet communist propaganda was never this brazenly bullshit. Prepare for resistance, arm yourself with deadly resolve and an eludicating love for your race while you still can.

Go back to Stormfront, little boy.

Stormfront is a jewish false flag to give normal "conservatives" looking for a way further right a false refuge in national-socialism and "white nationalism". All forms of socialism are explicitly designed counter to the white tribal values of individualism, elitism and personal liberty. You can't be a race realist and a communist degenerate at the same time.

[removed]

Removed, violation of rule 1. Please try to make your point without using racial slurs. Continued violations will result in a ban from /r/conspiracy.

Thank you for the notification, re-submitted without racial slurs.

What I gained from watching the vultures tear though their apartment is this: the shredded paperwork wasn't collected.

This means two things.

Either the manpower doesn't exist to try to reassemble the shreddings, or the technology.

Either one is good to know. If you want to remain secure, shred your shit a few times, then let a neighbor have the media toss it around.

Software can reconstruct shredded documents easily.

Yeah I imagine you can scan the strips and some program can stitch together matching strips into a readable pdf.

I dunno about easily, but yeah this doesn't seem all that challenging. Determine the top and bottom of each shread, map the pixels along the border, compare strips with adjacent non white pixels, reference the combined symbols against a language dictionary, add in an algorithm for word probability with other potential matches, etc...

Yeah I could write this in a few weeks maybe

It's easy because it has already been written, by people with the time and resources to make a product that works way better than a script someone would whip up in a few weeks.

He was hypothesizing that a software that does that exists, because he can imagine it being done himself.

Why the hostility?

Manpower? 300 government officers responded. 35 people shot or injured. The biggest question should be this. Why do we not have information from the 1.7 billion dollar nsa center right now? Saying the hard drives were broken, email deleted and Facebook took down does not get rid of that database.

The data collection law expired last weekend. Sorry. -NSA

Seriously, that's what they're saying.

If only you let us do our job, you would be safe! Seems a fitting narrative from the NSA actually.

This, more than anything! Make the people clamor for more intrusive government, because terrorists. Must feed the security-state technical/industrial complex.

Nope! And besides that everything that happened the weeks and months and years before did not just disappear. http://gizmodo.com/surprise-the-nsa-is-still-spying-on-you-1745256761

Well now that is very convenient now isn't it?

welp you guys didnt want us sooo yea i guess you can beg us to come back tho

Perhaps the NSA doesn't actually exist?

Prolly not.

Shredding it a few times 'might' make sure your information is secure, but the best approach to getting rid of evidence is just burning it. and I mean a good burn, not a mass pile of it and then toss away.

Burning your papers is better than shredding because there is nothing on earth that can reverse chard documents.

Just shred once and mix with water and perhaps bleach. Once it's a pulpy goob nobody can reassemble. Or do like I do and use the shredded paper as pet bedding. I suppose some of it can be reassembled but it is smelly and gross. In case you are wondering, no I have nothing to hide. I'm mainly concerned about identity theft. And it does make good free bedding. I love junk mail. It gets shredded too.

"...not only that this was allowed by the FBI and SBPD..."

Do we have any proof of this? I can't find an official statement by the FBI, but according to a statement the day of by the Sherriff:

Sheriff's official says apartment is still an active crime scene

There was plywood screwed over the doors and windows in that required a power driver to remove. That's pretty secure IMHO, even more so than a door with a lock that you could bump open in a few seconds with a pick set.

As to why no fingerprint dust, remember, we don't live in the world of CSI. You can't snap a picture of a fingerprint and have a result in a few minutes. The best source of info is something you can immediately see and search, such as emails and things like the cloud. So you snatch all that stuff up first, throw plywood over the any of the entrances, and if you want to come back and do fingerprints later, you can. As for why there was no one guarding, I'm chalking that up to momunmental fuck-up that someone in some department will get demoted/fired for.

But honest question:

Which will give you the most information?

1. A picture taken who knows when, who knows where, and developed at a local WalMart photo lab

2. The actual digital file on either a camera or computer that contains EXIF data that even has the GPS coordinates or the serial number of the camera which doesn't match any in the apartment and which you can do a world wide exif search to locate who may have taken the picture( yes, even the public can do this to find stolen/lost cameras )?

Those type "fucking ups" can only happen on purpose. Every agency in the USA is aware of the crime scene and is involved. You would think if you pulled up and got out of your vehicle without authorization you would be arrested or shot.

Those type "fucking ups" can only happen on purpose.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

What happened at that home goes way beyond stupid. That was magic bullet type intent.

Weeeeeird! This is stinkin unbelievable! Like, there is literally nothing in place to stop random camera dudes from taking or planting evidence. Too lazy, but can we get a good screen cap of what they blurred out before they added the censor thing over the bed full of documents?

The circumstances around the attack seem odd, like the one in London with a knife, however criminals themselves are odd. The police should do genetic analysis and try to form predictive mapping.

wtf? Minority Report pre-crime, no thank you. I dont want the thought police arresting me for having a little too much to Think

I smell a shill. Guy didn't wait long enough to try and introduce the idea of precrime and normalize it. Were to smart for that.

Were to smart

Good. Stay smart everyone.

Genetic analysis works

enlist the help of 4chan. Their HQ was hit hard during the attacks

Care to explain?

With the investigation still unfolding, much is unclear about Wednesday's deadly San Bernardino shooting at a center for people with developmental disabilities.

This took me way too long to get. I wasn't expecting jokes/sarcasm in this thread lmao.

I wasn't expecting jokes/sarcasm

That's when they work best ;)

You mean the notorious hacker who calls himself "4chan"?

Who is this 4CHAN?

FIND OUT THIS SUNDAY WHEN THE MYSTERIOUS HACKER 4CHAN TAKES ON JOHN CENA IN A MASK VS JORTS CHUTES AND LADDERS MATCH AT WWE SUUUUUUPERSLAAAAAMMMMM LIVE ON THE WWE NETWORK*

*Only 9.99 a month, Maggle

Was that a joke?

yeah :( he was calling 4chan a place for the mentally disabled and saying that their headquarters, being the Inland center in which the shooting took place, took a hit

clever, but useless.

A little to cleaver if you ask me.

Ruh roh

Who is this 4CHAN?

Fucking savage ass joke

I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist, more of a two sides to every story thinker, so I was wondering if someone could fill me in on what makes this seem like a false flag?

Thank you for this. It's high time we realize governments are the real terrorist, not the bogey men they themselves create.

and maybe even more so the shadow gov. sometimes I think most of our actual elected officials are victims as much as the rest of us.

Yep, everyone is a victim of this "system".

no they are actors playing a role they are most certainly aware of the deception they are playing to a degree directly proportional to the degree of power they wield

I am surprised to find myself agreeing more frequently, and ever more strongly, with statements like this.

Lots of my friends and family also feel the same. You'd be surprised how many people actually share the same view.

This. Is. Crazy.

You could add the reaction of the press to the list as well. Muslim, gun control, burner phones, etc. The agenda doesn't stop with the shootings.

Don't forget the drills conducted that morning.

I hear about drills coinciding with attacks like this quite often. Is there a comprehensive resource that shows multiple examples of this correlation?

In this shooting specifically, the Sheriff's dept main station, and county yard are just a mile or two away. I have read and been told by a few that they practice alot all the time close by to this scene, it's like right up the street from down town.

Thank you for asking reasonable questions. This is the best post I've seen here in a while

I am not a conspiracy theorist in The least. what made me scream WAIT JUST A FUCKING MINUTE was the statement by the attorney that he had just finished a 3hour interview with the FBI who were equally baffled and that Farouk and wife were handcuffed behind their backs face down and shot to death when police arrived.

Then I started looking at other stuff and none of it adds up. It's more than fishy.... this is a bizarre series of events. And now the president is going to come on tv and tell us it really happened and we should go shopping to get back at the terrorists.

This is an event that screams false flag.

Anyone notice that the people pouring out to ambulances after the shooting were limping or had no obvious wounds. Only the "14" were directly hit? I read that there were 80-90 people in that room. How was no one else even grazed?

what about the shooters being Muslim extremists yet no one heard them yell Allah Akbar (sorry if misspelled I have great respect for Muslims)?

I saw one video where there seem to have been 3 black SUV's and the helicopter zooms in on each one until he "finds" the correct vehicle. how did he know which of the 3 black SUVs wS it?

What's with that "dead body" at the bottom of the screen in the SUV helicopter shot? news reported them both dead in the SUV.

What's with the changing account - Syed left the party angry. - 2 days later: Wait no he wasn't angry, everything seemed normal.

And most bizarre of all is one that everyone has noted: who the fuck let's all those reporters inside what should be an active crime scene.

Someone in the media HAS to start asking these questions!

(ps: the only person attempting to speak some truth is the white attorney for the family. keep your eye on him... they either get to him or they shut him up)

Why do people keep clarifying that they are not conspiracy theorists? I'm not trying to attack,just generally curious. Conspiracy theorist,as a term, is treated like a slur around here. What's wrong with believing In a conspiracy?Replace it with "critical thinker." I'm not a critical thinker,but I smell something fishy. I wear my tinfoil hat like a badge of honor.

I agree with you -- by definition there is nothing wrong with it. It just so happens that the CIA has mounted an effort to write people's credibility off using the umbrella of conspiracy theory. As such, it's not an avoidance of the definition, it's an avoidance of the ignorant connotation that is widely accepted.

Of course,all the more reason to state what you are to take away the stigma. If enough rational people keep demonstrating that conspiracy theorists are pretty normal everyday people,The more it goes away. My question was more asking,if you are not a conspiracy theorist and think something is fake,is your opinion worth more because you are not a conspiracy theorist? I see this phrase often and I just wanted to know what's the rationale behind it? I would never say "I'm not a republican but I really agree their war on women."

hey teddydubb -- I totally agree with you. whatever it takes to open up this discussion as broadly as we can.

nobody needs to sign on the dotted line just to walk in the show room, if "normals" wanna poke their head into "conspiracy" out of "just curiosity" --- hey -- open house!!!!!! zero pressure. have some refreshments and feel free to ask any and all questions.

Can I have a jelly donut and milk in my coffee? Thanks :-)

sure thing. and more where that came from. :)

Unrelated topic but look at all of the police, commercial airline and military pilots who have lost their position after speaking up on ufos.

They see something curious, and out of the ordinary but get labeled as crazy if they speak up about it.

People feel the need to state a disclaimer before they talk about conspiracy stuff to avoid this happening to them.

The term conspiracy theorist was coined in the 50s and was created to discredit people who would dig for more answers. Classify and label them to ostracize them, essentially

because this is the first time I really do think there's a conspiracy. I've generally accepted most terrorist attacks, but this lead me to seeking out conspiracy theorists to find out what their take on this is. I'm usually just pragmatic and it's not like I have faith in our government, but I've never thought.... I think the government is actually behind this... before.. that's why I put it like that. not that it's a "bad" thing necessarily, but it's just not where my mind has ever gone before.

you are describing something that I think is really wide spread. smart informed people feeling like they "know" things aren't that great but they aren't that bad.

after 9/11 I was sure our gov was taking advantage to justify a war the people would not otherwise have supported, and I even though maybe maybe some individuals had intentionally not stopped the attack when maybe they could have, but I did not comprehend it had been by orchestrated by people within our own gov - and those who control our gov via $.

and most of my friends are the same way, yes the gov is corrupt - yes Fox and CNN are slanted, but overall -- we are still pretty free and there is a system still doing it's best to keep the corruption in check and America is still doing fairly well all things considered.

as for the last thing - I suppose it's all relative. we are not war torn so that's a plus. but I digress --- it was a paradigm shift for me to let it all come into focus -- where there is smoke of "vague corruption" -- there is the biggest fire ever of systematic intent and action.

we are under a barrage of propaganda daily. not so different than North Korea - however of a different brand that we can't pick up on easily. but it's there. the press is a huge part of it. they literally sell us fake staged events all the time. and when an event is real - they lie so much about surrounding facts - the "event" as it is described to us becomes a muddled mess of truth and lies - always significantly refracted from real life .

the multilayered lies are so expansive and some are shared and coopted by other gov's too. the scope is incredible.

you mind might say -- no no no. I don't go there. I know they are out for themselves but our checks and balances are keeping the system still working. I'm offering to you -- -no. we are being given a staged show every day meant to give you that impression. The depth of the lies - I don't think anyone looking into it has found the bottom yet. and many people have dug very deep.

what the end game is -- I don't know, but something incredible you have to look deeper to see is happening daily.

I'm beginning to think you're right. and I because my mind is starting to agree with you in all of that I am terrified and I also believe something huge and very very bad is coming. worse than 9-11. I'm scared if this is all true...

you will be ok :) ! if you are starting to see it and it's scaring you -- first thing to do is relax and treat yourself like a kid who just got their heart broken the first time. it's a shock and a paradigm shift. but you will grown to know how to handle the new information. and the world is not about to end. not any more than it has been about to end for a very long time. the only thing ending right now is your former perspective.

but you don't have to stop yourself from feeling it all - you will regain your equilibrium, btw. I cried adnd cried couple weeks when the grandness of the information came into view for me. I really felt like I was seeing the end of the world was coming. but it's been about a year since then and I can tell you -- I actually feel better for my knowledge and perspective and much healthier and oddly often in a better mood. perhaps the anxiety of knowing something was so wrong but not knowing how to open my attention is alleviated -- and I feel overall healthier. And I would not undo the change in my perspective for anything. What also helped was researching our history and seeing that this stuff has been going on for a long time. look into conspiracy involving the sinking of the titanic -- the shuttle disaster (all space travel) -- Lincoln assassination -- for me it was helpful to realize this has been going on for a very long time, so while it feels like it's a doomsday kind of thing as I'm finally picking up on all of it -- it might not be that kind of final moments crisis as much as --- we got a long term big picture situation here to get our heads around and it could take some big long term thinking and action to resolve it.

I think any time somebody "wakes up" this horrible dread comes over them. fema camps martial law next Summer, etc. I get it. BUT. try to take it easy. this mess has been here for a couple centuries/ there are layers of deception meant to freak you the hell out as you start to learn stuff. you really don't have to be scared. everything you have been picking up on finally has been here for a very long time. you are like a kid learning for the first time it's a dangerous world, but you will adapt. knowledge is the first step.

I can tell you personally - I had a break down of paranoia, maybe for a few weeks, when I first figured a lot of it out, and now a year later-- I feel alive and healthy and capable. consider it like you are going through withdrawal from the lies. it's almost like losing your religion or something like that. it is really big deal. and a really big shock psychologically. the fear is gonna get you like a waking nightmare, but give it some time. you will be ok :) just let yourself process the change in perspective. it's a good thing to see more clearly. in time you will be better off than you were before. and some day you'll be telling somebody else the same thing.

I appreciate your kind words, thank you... it made me think all the way back to the assassination of Julius Caesar! that was a conspiracy and who knows what the Romans were told at the time! haha... I guess it's a trait of an empire.. and of the powerful.. conspiracies and lies to hold on to power.

thank you for the encouragement though... I'll try to keep those things in mind as I have a bit of a mind-fucked, fear induced anxiety attack.

I'm grateful to not have children, to be honest..

no prob :) I'm glad I could offer something!

yeah, really it's probably best to just feel the paranoia attack rather than suppress, let it run it's course. no sharp objects or kids around. and remember - no matter what sunny days do lie ahead.

and yes about Romans . maybe Brutus was a Patsy :) - Empires have ruled people with propaganda and deception since the beginning of Empires. We just thought we were over something we are not over. Lucky us, whatever we finally do about this we will earn our own place in history too.

what are some good Indy news sites? any recs??

I like veterans today and deep inside the rabbit hole

but my fav is just the collection of youtube videos people make on a given topic. once you get in it you can let youtube recommend videos for you -- and -- try em. when an even is suspicious to me I google "paris attacks hoax" for example - and track what people are posting for a few days on youtube, -- then you can start to see other stuff you decide you like to check in with regularly.

some stuff is not disciplined, other more so - but you can take what you want from it

It's a heavy stigma people are legitimately looking to circumvent. I'd say very very few of us are "conspiracy theorists" in the sense -- of how the term originators meant for it to mean -- nutty -- paranoid -- unreasonable, etc.

Problem is there is this segregated discussion board for "conspiracy". Because questioning for now remains under the umbrella of -- hey we might be nutty - paranoid -- unreasonable - but we don't hurt anybody if you keep us hidden away talking only amongst ourselves - so let us ask our wacky questions in gated peace.

But lions share of questions here are reasonable and legitimate and it require no nuttiness or paranoia to see that. The dam is gonna break.

"wizard hunter" is sexier

Really is strange, and I'm surprised people caught on to all these so quick. I'm excited to see what this becomes and hope people don't dismiss it immediately, it's very easy to say "hah, rot in hell terrorists" but with all the strange events during the whole fiasco it's hard to tell what really went on.

I don't think the media is free to ask questions. That's the big reveal here, (or at least one of the big reveals) the press not been free since at least as far back as 9/11.

Ah so Muslim Terrorists have to scream Allah Akbar...if you dont say it it doesn't count?

Go to watch any video of combat footage of syrian rebels

Any reasonably devout Muslim will say Allahu Akbar at the slightest opportunity. A Muslim launching a martyr's attack on the infidels would rather eat an entire pig than miss the chance to praise his god.

You can't be fucking serious right?

Go find me one single video of Muslims fighting that doesn't contain numerous cries of Allahu Akbar. It's not an easy task.

I guess be wasn't Muslim....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/12035552/Knifeman-screams-this-is-for-Syria-in-London-tube-machete-attack.html

Why do you think the anonymous bystander called him out?

When they showe'd footage of the French raiding the apartment after the Paris attacks, they yelled "Where is your boyfriend!" She replied back "He us not my boyfriend!" When they showed that I looked at my husband and said "there is no way that woman was a suicide bomber." Had she yelled Allahu Akbar I would not have questioned it. A few days latter they are confirm she was not a suicide bomber. These details are important. The fact that the shooters were not heard saying anything is significant.

A majority of these questions have already been answered though. You are making it seem so black and white.

They have mentioned where they got the guns. They mentioned why they let media in the house. They mentioned why they didn't want news choppers around there location. Etc etc

Not to mention, releasing CC footage of the attacks so soon after the fact is in incredibly poor taste.

is it poor taste for the FBI to allow the media to rummage through their house 48 hours afterwards?

It was poor taste for the building owner to allow that. The FBI only released the building back to him. Was that a bad idea? Probably. Poor taste? Not on their part.

A little negligent on the fbi's part, no?

Possibly, but not in poor taste.

The FBI is the cleanup crew.

Pretty bad that the government has graduated from using crisis actors in drills to actually killing citizens.

How could they not know what would happen next? The FBI let this happen.

Why would a building owner want the media to come in and blast a terrorist's home on national TV? That's the real question. The FBI can't really stop that if they have full control of the home back to him.

Money.

Because it's still under investigation? Because there are things the FBI is still trying to sort out? What does that prove anyway? Two (or three) people entering a building and you have a bunch of people claiming them to be crisis actors. Or saying it still doesn't prove anything.

Footage would show their physique. If it shows 2 or 3 muscular and fit individuals, then you know it's not the accused

this is the best point I've seen yet, you really can't get around this one

If it's still under investigation and "being sorted out", then why'd they let media into their house with possible evidence around ?

I don't know, hence the question mark. I'm also not pretending to know or assuming that because it was a fuck-up in that regard that the entire thing was a false flag attack.

They didn't. The building was released back to the landlord, he allowed the media in.

"The landlord let them in" - CNN

It proves if it was in fact two or three, and I'm sure it would also prove if the woman was even involved by the size of the assailants.

Okay, I'm on the road today so I can't yet respond point by point, but I have to point out there are some serious problems many of these.

How is a 90 lb woman who recently gave birth and had no military training able to conduct what the surviving victims and eyewitnesses described as a highly tactical, sophisticated assault operation using heavy, military-grade arms?

So she's 90lbs and just gave birth? C'mon. This is a contradictory statment right from the start.

sophisticated assault operation using heavy, military-grade arms?*

Really? Military weapons are designed to be easily operated by either sexes, and have been for some time. If you have any familiarity with guns, you can teach any female to be effective enough to kill unarmed civilians in very little time. These aren't heavy weapons. You are borrowing bullshit media sensationalism to prove a point. Call me when you've moved a mortar.

It's already been mentioned her husband had been to a range many times.

had no military training

We don't know this yet. There is a lot in her backround we still don't know. But I stand behind the statement that it takes little to teach someone how to shoot effectively.

As a facility for those with developmental disabilities, a facility that required card entry, there must be multiple cameras covering every entrance and throughout the common areas.

This this true? Are they required? I know of no such law yet making such requirements in CA facilities, although that might have changed. If so, where is this point not referencing that specific law?

Look, it's too early, but already I'm seeing points that just don't cut the mustard. One unsubstantiated premise after another. Good critical thinking and problem solving on this demands that.

My point is that the list makes a presumption and a conclusion about the alleged shooter. My question is whether or not that presumption is faulty.

Also, I fail to see what was sophisticated in this attack. What am I missing?

I'd ask you to respond to my point. Why so you or anyone think it's difficult to achieve the level of skill for such an attack?

Finally, are we sure she hasn't received any training? Seems we are just learning who this person was.

That list is no more presumptuous than the conclusions already made by the MSM. And even with no requirements by law, it's exceedingly hard to believe that inland regional center has no cameras at all, especially to ensure security of the patients and accountability of the staff.

As far as using a weapon, sure she could have used an ar-15 with a little bit of training. But under the backdrop of all the other inconsistencies, I'm sure you can understand why this is being viewed with heavy handed skepticism

I agree 100% but that heavy dose of skeptism must be applied to alternate theories as well as msm. Especially when components of the theory borrow heavily from the MSN narrative.

[deleted]

Excuse me? Why the quotes? I never said that. Stop putting words in others mouths.

Simply respond to my responses with a reason why it is or isn't correct.

OP presents a list of presumed facts to get to a conclusion. I'm asking if those presumptions are correct.

What did I say that you disagree? And what leads you to the conclusion?

Are you saying she wasn't capable? Why or why not? I dispute that she's 90lbs. Where did that come from? I've not seen that once as a description.

A lot of that is reaching.

All* of that is reaching.

What "heavy, military-grade arms" were used?

good point, just a couple of M4 style AR's

These sound pretty similar to the questions left in answered after Port Arthur in Australia.

truthforPortArthur

[deleted]

Port Aurthur happened when I was too young to know what was going on, but from what I've researched there is no doubt in my mind that he didn't do it.

Too many inconsistencies and malpractice on the part of the police and government.

[deleted]

http://southeastasianews.org/portarthur/conspiracy_fact.html

Have a look at some of the stuff on here. So much information to sort through and it all points to the same conclusion.

I can answer a couple questions:

1. I work for the Department of Human Services for San Bernardino County. I have worked in three different buildings and none of them have video cameras. It's not unusual that this building didn't have them either.

2. I was listening to the scanner when the attackers were shot (me and thousands of other people - hopefully somebody recorded it) there was a witch hunt going on at the time and this vehicle and the people in it were not the only people considered suspect at the time. It was when the people in the SUV opened fire on the police that their situation became the primary interest. They initially pulled into a parking lot and the police didn't act because they were calling for back-up. Back-up didn't get there fast enough and the SUV headed East on a sparsely populated street - there are some houses but it's not really a residential neighborhood. I don't think they were given the order to return fire but it was an intense situation and when one cop started shooting the other officers felt justified in shooting. (Just like with the reporters entering the apartment.)

I don't think there's a conspiracy in these two points.

thanks for info, it's always good to get really clear about what are the lies and what are the truths, I'm sure there is deception going on here but I doubt those cops in the chase were in on it so it would make sense they acted within reason with respect their own understanding.

The cameras were down for maintenance, probably. Lol

The cctv footage is probably with the sandy hook security footage...

Why did the FBI allow media open access to their apartment?

They didn't, they left and the landlord allowed them in.

Regarding #8: I was following this live while it happened. The scanners and Fox 10 Phoenix reported that the choppers had to leave because they were taking fire.

Then a DHS plane (rumored to have a dirtbox equipped) began circling the area: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/n404kr/#826791d (pan to the right). Google "N404KR DHS aircraft" to make the connection.

Infographic on dirtboxes: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-BR921A_SPYFL_9U_20141113175201.jpg

Edit: Posted this in its own thread for further discussion: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3vojbt/why_didnt_the_choppers_record_the_highspeed_chase/

With the zoom capabilities of the camera on a news helicopter it can easily stay out of gunshot range while getting a good view of what's happening. Check out this zoom. http://petapixel.com/2013/04/26/news-helicopter-camera-snaps-photo-of-saturn-while-in-the-air/

These are all outstanding questions that I will be inquiring with any and all who bring it up in the future.

And on the point of letting the MSM into the appartment, thats one of the weirdest events of the whole thing. Obama for prison 2016.

All that was, is the media going "see! It was them! We told you so!" Akin to a sibling trying to produce evidence to support a claim to their parents.

Except there was no evidence of anything untoward in the objects the media crudely pawed through. There wasn't even any evidence that they were not planning to come home and do the dishes and make dinner, change the baby's diaper, say their prayers and read some devotionals, and go to bed.

The whole thing smells terrible and not much makes sense. Just saw the FBI is raiding their neighbor, alleging he was the gun supplier.

Also, why was there active shooter drills being conducted at the facility?

http://www.naturalnews.com/052196_active_shooter_drills_San_Bernardino_shooting_Inland_Regional_Center.html

5 is a big one. Maybe the media has caught on since the Aurora theatre shooter. That op wouldn't have been exposed if it wasn't for the media's unedited witness testimonies directly after the event describing multiple shooters in body armor and paramilitary garb.

you know that those rifles are not heavy at all ?

Do you have a link to the witnesses you mentioned?

Thank you.

K

This is a strong, reasonable list of questions. There's nothing to disregard as being tinfoil hat-ish. These questions should be spread, not in a fear mongering way, but from a reasoned, critical angle. Too many important issues get swept away by ad hominem attacks on "crazy conspiracy theorists".

I remember when this was first airing that there was a dead body of one of the suspects on the ground/sidewalk. who was this person if both suspected were found dead in their SUV?

... c'mon, guy

:\

shakes head, and walks away

Agreed.

I stopped reading at number two as it was enough to convince me, that's extremely odd unless all three of them happened to be family friends of the suspects and had a plan set up which is pretty much unlikely. I'm going to do more research on this, I don't even know the story very well but it sounds simply like a Pakistani couple shooting up a building that was for disabled people and then driving off in an SUV then dying, right?

there are many sides to every story. much respect for that. however - welcome to questioning from this side! the reasons to question (re: false flag) are so abundant once a lot of it comes into focus for you you can't unsee it. but it's the initial stuff that's the hardest to open eyes to. imo.

for me personally I can see it's fake because I realized boston Bombing was staged - and then I realized at least some stuff about Sandy hook was fake and then charleston shooting, Oregon, that TV reporter, Paris attacks. I'm sure I'm missing some. but before I would research research research. not sure for a long time. but now it's like short hand - I can see them fast.

Initial clues: CNN and all main media give immediate round clock coverage, with an agenda for what the story is already in place, the agenda will always include a message about how we are supposed to feel and what we want to do about this, and this reaction will be strongly suggested and cultivated for us. often it's about guns. but it can be about voting for increased surveillance, it can be to stir up support for military action abroad or more militarized police here, but whatever it is it's for strengthening those who profit at top and weakening general populous.

there will be bad guys -- that are the bad guys right away, no trial to suss out certainty, if there is a trial it's well after public has no doubt of who did it. there will be immediate on line evidence so public can poor over hints of -- oh this man was so bad he was into this , etc.

there will be reports of "extremism" and "mental health issues" -- ask what are those things really? it's just undefinable lingo to pin "badness" on constructed "bad guys".

motive always incredible vague and much more serving to powers that be to say that was their motive -- than anything else.

evidence is crap. really try to trace how a thing was proven and how it can be verified, you will run into so many " don't ask that means you don't believe" kind of responses. never ever ever will media provide actual clarity on how the case was solved so assuredly and quickly. tho they may take time to shame anybody who asks for that information/ - . info will always come out as " an image of killer is starting to materialize" we don;t know much but here are all the exact facts of who did it and why. "experts tell us". and the ever classic "authorities tell us". .....sometimes they manage to name their sources and the story is still fake but when they do not name sources ...100% certainly its fake.

spend a long weekend watching you tube videos. google things like "boston bombing hoax" sand hook hoax" "charleston shooting hoax" people have done an amazing job of laying out visual evidence - showing contradictions, impossabilities etc. you don;t have to "believe" anything. but you can give a listen and you might start to see what all the fuss on this side is about

The paranoid in me doesn't like it when people ask questions like this. "Hey, please explain to me why you all don't believe this story we're feeding you so we can better tie up loose ends in the future, kthx."

hmm, you could be right, but open discourse on all this is the far better way to go even if folks on other s side are taking notes. imo

That's a horrible way to live. But seriously, where did we did we tip you guys off?

All you need to know to understand that something is way off with this story is that journalists being allowed into the apartement. Would never happen.

The only first-hand eyewitness that was interviewed on live tv insisted she saw "three men"

I used to be a huge conspiracy guy, until people started turning everything into a conspiracy. What purpose would a false flag serve here? None. The Obama administration has bent over backwards to defend Islam. Secondly, this guy was on the NSA watch list and still wasn't caught, further proving that spying on citizens does not prevent terrorism. Not everything is a conspiracy. There are 8 billion people on this earth and some of them are violent and insane. Hashtag-someofyouarethinkingwaytoomuchintoshit

All this Snowden shit has kept the NSA from being able to stop this terrorist act. We need to expand their powers and budget, ASAP.

I'm halfway expecting this to be the talking point of tomorrow's "keeping Americans safe" speech from the POTUS.

R/limitedhangouts

This event will be used to show that we need more strict laws regarding gun ownership and privacy.

And we are still allowing Syrian refugees in and we all need to be nice to them.

what benifit is it?

it allows the perpetuation of the war on terror, scaremongering of the American public to give away more freedoms and create a totalitarian state.

waste more government money on military industrial complex.

and most importantly supports israel against their criminal activity on their victims the Muslims.

and of course obama is gonna play apologetcis. pretty stupid not to.

Pretty sure none of those things require more blood currently. People are already willingly laying down doing fuckall as all of those things transpire. You make it sound like they have an energized population which is exercising it's democratic rights; which does not exist.

Besides, if you were going to carry out a false flag you'd do a better job as a state actor with access to the capabilities and equipment that they have. Just put come C4 somewhere populated.

Pretty sure none of those things require more blood currently. People are already willingly laying down doing fuckall as all of those things transpire.

because of these kind of constant reminders. these attacks are nothing more than reminders.

people would get upset very quickly of their rights were eroded without an excuse.

You make it sound like they have an energized population which is exercising it's democratic rights; which does not exist.

not sure what this means.

but the reason the population is not energised is because of these attacks.

take them away and all you would have left is totalitarian laws being passed for no reason and activists fighting back.

people would wake up if that was the case.

Besides, if you were going to carry out a false flag you'd do a better job as a state actor with access to the capabilities and equipment that they have. Just put come C4 somewhere populated.

who says it was US, maybe it was mossad this time.

But what makes you think they haven't done what you said.

Madrid bombings, 911 etc.

and even as state actors they need ro minimise possibility of it coming out public like Lavon Affair where someone squealed on the israelis planning to bomb US embassy and churches and to blame it on muslims.

So you have to compartmentalise.

Which means you get some lone right wing nutjobs to do the crazy shit, who thinks he's being a patriot by killing to make America wake up to the islamic invasion.

And then you blame it on someone else some islamic person, who gets conveniently killed.

but that means you have to make sure cctv and everything doesn't exist, amd evidence gets destroyed.

And that way if the right wing nutjob every starts whistle blowing they either call him a nutjob or simply kill him.

So you need to minimise agency staff.

Don't believe me? Watch the bbc documentary operation gladio.

which spilled the bean on how Nato and israel did this in Europe for 40 years with nazi agents, and no doubt still are doing with far right extremists.

People are being absolutely worn down by all these shootings. It's a war of attrition in a way. They're happening so frequently and they're getting so much exposure that people, especially those in the plugged in me-generation, feel that they need to do something about it. Take a stroll through Facebook or Twitter and you'll see more calls for gun control/confiscation than ever. At this rate, it's getting to the point where people are so outraged and these events so frequent and horrible that "common sense" will prove them to be right.

As for the NSA being inept, couldn't that justify increased surveillance or different methods of "control"? I could see the narrative being something like, "See? Wiretapping isn't enough. We need to do more!" I doubt that people would see the failures of the NSA and then say oh well, anarchy it is then! They'd seek alternative options of "safety".

There are violent and disturbed people in this world, sure. But many of these questions are worth exploring. Under your logic we shouldn't challenge any story, ever, because of the existence of disturbed individuals. That just strikes me as apathy. I don't think there's anything wrong with critical citizens asking good questions. It doesn't mean we're right, but it's better to challenge the narratives and seek more truth than what we're getting from the corporate owned governments and media.

This takes the American publics attention away from Russia's evidence that NATO using turkey is protecting ISIS and funding ISIS through illegal purchases of oil which is crossing into Turkey to be shipped to Israel. Whilst the west is following this shooting news, the rest of the world is becoming more aware of the US led war on terror being based on more lies to hide corruption.

The NSA just "stopped spying" last week didn't they?

Nice of you to notice.

I used to be a huge conspiracy guy, until people started turning everything into a conspiracy.

I am calling bullshit. Having the ability to think critically has nothing to do with someone else leading the way for you. "People" turning everything into a conspiracy made you shy away from your own ability to smell bullshit?

Are you meaning to imply that the only powers or motives at play in this (or any) situation are the ones you personally can conceive of?

That's not being naive that's being a willful idiot... which apparently you've just recently confessed to being.

Calling something a conspiracy without evidence or motive is not critical thinking. That's actually the exact opposite of critical thinking.

I agree with you. The flip side of course is that.... even in the face of overwhelming fuckery... believing what you are being fed makes about as much sense.

My question to you still stands. Why would silly conspiracy theories that are clearly bullshit... sway you away from something you had sincere questions about?

What conspiracies did you personally find interest in? After that... what conspiracies made you change your mind about these?

"Hurr durr let's all us non-expert keyboard warriors take shit out of context to fuel meaningless speculation until it becomes embedded in our sub's groupthink!"

What's the purpose? Well more draconian gun laws to start, more justification to be murdering people in the middle east, expanding nsa spying, "domestic terrorist" watchlists. These are just a few examples but then again I'm no politician..

Are you serious? No one can be this dumb......

Gun control

Pressure to increase support for action against "ISIS"

Pressure to increase support for government access to and monitoring of "terrorist" activities

Except this proves to anyone with a brain that government monitoring does nothing to stop terrorist attacks. Pretty shitty flase flag if that was their goal

"We aren't monitoring hard enough."

NEED MORE MONITORING!!!

OUTLAW ENCRYPTION!!!!

You would think so, but that's not true.

Example:

Why is the TSA still a thing?

"anyone with a brain" hell if it was that easy why dont we just elect a few of these people with brains so they can run our country,,,oh wait.

I used to be a huge conspiracy guy, until people started turning everything into a conspiracy.

"I used to be a huge science guy, until people started turning everything into science."

Wonder if you know how bizarre & unintentionally ironic you sound.

Doesn't this just prove the ineffectiveness of inaction on the part of the NSA? Why weren't they spying better? And if the NSA was watching the guy, and their eptitude remains intact, were they complicit in this ijits plans? Cause it is one or the other...

Bashtag - itonlytakestwobraincells

Who signs your check and the end of the month? You wreak of shill bud. Go back to r/sheeple

I dont know if this was a conspiracy or not so I'm not saying something one way or another in regards to that. But an argument could easily be made that government monitoring needs to be increased or more widespread/in depth, since it didn't save us.

It's already blamed on isis.. So let's bomb isis. Gun control as well.

Gun control is better when it's 'right wing extremists' rather than ISIS. I think there's no motive here for a conspiracy. Islam is just a dangerous thing to believe, that's just a fact.

This eyewitness account is very good evidence that contradicts the official story

Even the newsreader smells the bullshit:

"...and we've just learned one the suspects was a woman"

directly after the eyewitness gives a detailed description of three athletic males in combat gear.

I found it more of a correcting the narrative thing. "...was actually a woman" as if they could definitely say. Yes he uses the word "suspect" but you could swap it out for perpetrator these days.

Look at the newsreader's face as he says that. When I first saw that I almost felt like I could see the guilty gears turning in his head — "Is this crap really coming out of my mouth right now?"

It looked like he was coming to a realization that he had become an official mouthpiece for official bullshit and worse, that he probably was not going to be brave enough to question that bullshit.

Eyewitness accounts are notoriously unreliable

The point is that one eyewitness account that can't be corroborated with other eyewitness accounts is especially weak.

Review the Reddit Live thread: https://www.reddit.com/live/w0nn1o5hu90y

11:48: two witnesses say they are absolutely sure three shooters with rifles

That was a user report from listening to the police scanner.

Right here for the exact link https://www.reddit.com/live/w0nn1o5hu90y/updates/737e6194-992e-11e5-bd7b-0e4e1a948311

Notice also it says:

Victims don't appear to know shooter

Eyeballs can't melt steel beams

Yet everyone believes that we know attackers yell things like, "for syria," before slashing a throat.

Okay well another eyewitness account broadcast on local tv, he witnessed the shooters as they were leaving the scene and he unhesitatingly describes as "three white men in military fatigues"

Here's the full transcript:

Witness: Where I was at right here we seen there were three white men in military fatigues, um taking off.

Q: What were they driving?

Witness: What was it like a... like a black impala... SUV...SUV... or yeah...

Q: Do you think that they might have been the shooters?

Witness: Yeah, the way they were driving...yeah

Q: And how many shots did you hear?"

Witness: Oh, a lot, it was a lot, it sounded like I said it sounded like a gun range just shots going off. It was crazy. It was a lot. A lot of shots.

Only when they go against the official narrative of course ;)

Mirror

Three men in military attire, and one of them start shooting everyone? Skin tone was white, tall, athletic build.

But the report originally said it's a man and woman!

Sarcasm there of course, have any other witnesses reported the three men in military attire? Because there wasn't any report of them being killed.

two witnesses say they are absolutely sure three shooters with rifles

https://www.reddit.com/live/w0nn1o5hu90y/updates/737e6194-992e-11e5-bd7b-0e4e1a948311

Do you have any idea how unreliable eyewitness tesitmony is? Read up on the people wrongfully convicted of crimes based exclusivity on eyewitness testimony.

Okay well here's another eyewitness account broadcast on local tv, he witnessed the shooters as they were leaving the scene and he unhesitatingly describes as "three white men in military fatigues"

Here's the full transcript:

Witness: Where I was at right here we seen there were three white men in military fatigues, um taking off.

Q: What were they driving?

Witness: What was it like a... like a black impala... SUV...SUV... or yeah...

Q: Do you think that they might have been the shooters?

Witness: Yeah, the way they were driving...yeah

Q: And how many shots did you hear?"

Witness: Oh, a lot, it was a lot, it sounded like I said it sounded like a gun range just shots going off. It was crazy. It was a lot. A lot of shots.

It's the foundation of our justice system, so...

Ihave a feeling that video won't be up for long

Already downloaded

Record it and reupload

She sounds like she's making it up as she goes along.

ETA: I've now heard this from several sources, so even though I didn't find her very credible, I'd like to hear some official explanation, or see some video, which surely must exist.

She most definitely is not as another eyewitness account broadcast on local tv, he witnessed the shooters as they were leaving the scene and he unhesitatingly describes as "three white men in military fatigues"

Here's the full transcript:

Witness: Where I was at right here we seen there were three white men in military fatigues, um taking off.

Q: What were they driving?

Witness: What was it like a... like a black impala... SUV...SUV... or yeah...

Q: Do you think that they might have been the shooters?

Witness: Yeah, the way they were driving...yeah

Q: And how many shots did you hear?"

Witness: Oh, a lot, it was a lot, it sounded like I said it sounded like a gun range just shots going off. It was crazy. It was a lot. A lot of shots.

The language she uses seems a little...weird for a civilian. Like how many of your coworkers would know things like assault rifle, semi automatic, and magazines. I wouls think most people would say gun bullets and shoots a lot. You know what I'm saying?

I'm not big on conspiracies but I fully believe this is one.

If you fully believe this was a false flag, do you think it's possible this has happened before? Or was this a first time, test the waters type of deal seeing how sloppy everything was handled?

I'm sure there have been false flags in the past, but I also think there have been a lot of legitimate shootings calle false flags, and I don't care if some shooting from the 90s was fake or not. Even if it was discovered dit was, the public wouldn't care. Just the existence of Operation northwods should invoke public outrage even now, but it doesn't.

[removed]

It just can't.

True. But the best way to hide a few real conspiracies is to spread wacky theories at every opportunity. So it comes down to whether it's possible to pick out the few actually fishy cases from all the disinformation noise.

[deleted]

I guess we can assume that since the mods deleted his comment he was telling the truth and the mods are now shills.

You have a closed mind

Um, McDonald's failing as a company is a conspiracy... They own lots of stuff.... Maybe you need this

Yes they can. Everything is planned. Most things.

I'm not one to really consider this sort of thing but it definitely has me scratching my head. You heard from witnesses and even police themselves that there were DEFINITELY 3 shooters, all seemingly male, then suddenly it's only two?

I think Farook got name dropped by a witness because he was acting weird at the party, left, then half an hour later the shooters arrived. It still seems very weird to me that everyone was certain there were 3 shooters and then a couple hours after the dust settled it came out that it was only 2.

I don't even know what to think about the media. I don't look at the media, I don't pay attention to it, and I don't want to support something so heinous as breaking in to the house of a mass murderer that is still under investigation. I haven't looked at any of it.

I remember when it was going down live, people were reporting three males dressed in black.

Then several HOURS later a middle eastern male-female couple turns up dead and are presumed to be the perps? Something just doesn't add up.

[deleted]

Well, just spitballing here... what if the men in black were police? I also remember seing footage of police dressed in black running all over the place. Maybe in the confusion...?

Hopefully this community center place had security cameras rolling and the footage was backed up safely before anyone nefarious was able to seize it all.

Realtime offsite backups, people! And fucking encrypt them!

There was a 2nd shooter at SH. He escaped through the woods, wearing camo.

so great if more people are really questioning!!! dam has to break on one of these things.

Did that SUV have it's hazard lights on? What would be the purpose of that?

To indicate they just committed a mass shooting

Seriously!!! Why the hell did they turn on hazards? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Why did the lady in Paris scream before "she"detonated her vest. Are these failed attempts to get a message out?

All of a sudden Obama is making a speech tomorrow regarding gun control.

Problem Reaction Solution

I called this out a few days ago but no one got it! Politicians getting the heat over guns laws, but as soon as the suspects are dead they are suddenly IS terrorists and not mentally ill as initially described. Also the press are all over a house that had the smell of setup all over it.

When they had the manhunt for that Donner guy, the police went crazy shooting up anything and everything that looked even remotely like the suspects vehicle, yet they cleaned this thing up in a hurry after killing the two patsies? All over folks thanks for your help.

Come over here and check out this apartment? Everyone have fun!

I am just hypothesizing here, but, what if creating a state of confusion, with discrepancies and a litany of questions, is exactly what a conspiratorial group want.

The more fixated we become on an isolated point, the tendency is that we'd miss the broader implications.

And, from reading the comments, I wouldn't say this works toward just one goal... but it's going to be used for all goals and agendas... such as gun control, domestic intel, and racial/religious walking on egg-shells. It leaves a lot of people in limbo and this state of unsteadiness tips the balance of power back to "them"

I wonder if part of the idea is simply to actually increase weapons sales - both to increasingly paranoid citizens and various groups on both sides of the "War on Terror."

_ um.....They detained a third suspect....who?? Y U NO MENTION WHO DA THE THIRD SUSPECT WAS AND WHY THEY WERE RUNNING THROUGH BACKYARDS THO

Just like there were dozens of videos about the last mass shooting on YouTube within minutes. This is either propaganda to keep people fixated on paranoid fantasies, or greedy exploitation.

grandiose claims, instant paranoid reaction, everything 'They' say is wrong, we're all in this together its a mass movement

Its like its just generated by a bot using key buzzwords

https://archive.is/8PAeW

Archived, in case someone decides to ban OP.

I'm not convinced it's a false flag op. But it is very suspicious how it happened shortly after NSA total surveillance ended. Or they say it ended.

My belief is that, like 911, they knew it was coming and they let it happen, to get what they want. In 2001 they wanted war in the middle east. In 2015 they want absolute power to surveil everyone all the time. If I'm right, this attack will be followed by calls for total surveillance.

Another clue for you all, I actually found a video a nurse recorded in a room with what I would presume to be other nurses in the building as the police were storming it. In the video, it is completely clear that NONE of them have any idea what is going on.. I mean, these men supposedly had heavy rifles(loud guns), and if they did injure and kill the amount of people said in the initial reports, wouldn't there be some screams which would cause chaos and upheaval within the walls of that building? It just doesn't make sense to me that they would be so clueless.. Here's the video: http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-san-bernardino-shooting-dramatic-video-shows-police-storming-inland-regional-center-20151202-story.html I hope this video can be of use.

thanks for your measured study and clear list of arguments/facts, it takes time and work to do that, and it's so helpful --

the more approachable and reasoned the counter information -- the better chance we have for -- more people taking notice.

The key to winning the media narrative game is to come up with a 2 sentence soundbyte that explains your best theory, then repeat it over and over and over. Refine it as you get more info.

I love how they didn't secure the residence and allowed the media in which is really unusual in a police state. So they left that insecure, but they still have secured the parking lot of the building where the shooting took place. All the cars are still there including all the survivors cars, some with minor injuries yet we have not heard from one of them yet? Nothing on social media, expect for the dumb stories like "He told me "I got you" with the pretty latinia girl that I saw get of a bus with no injuries at all and thought, "hmm the media will latch onto that one"

If we never get any video from inside the facility showing only 2 shooters, the man and woman Pakistani couple, then I just have to wonder if the confiscated video supports the eyewitness accounts of 3 larger build male, fair skinned gunmen.

If the surveillance camera video supported the official narrative of the "ISIS Inspired" radicalized Muslim man and woman couple it would have been "leaked" to the media by now. If the video shows 3 male shooters then it gets "confiscated" and never sees the light of day, sort of like the FBI and DHS confiscating any and all video from every possible source within a mile of the Pentagon on 9/11.

Or Sandy Hook. Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see kids or anyone being shot, but there has to be gotta footage of them at least entering the building. I'm not a Truther in that I don't think these events happened, but I just believe we are not getting the actual story.

I think it's too early. There are always inconsistent statements early on.

But I also think some of OPs premises are incorrect. CA LEOs have no problem firing into residential areas with little in the way of concern for others.

As more eyewitness statements come out with supporting or non supporting evidence, we'll know more.

The question is, if there was this much blatantly different stuff going on, why has no one come forward with cell phone video of 3 armed guys on the streets or pictures of the 2 handcuffed? Everyone has a camera phone this day and little happens without someone videoing it.

There's definitely a picture of Farook floating around, dead and handcuffed. Also idk about you, but if there's automatic gunfire ringing nearby, last thing I'm doing is pullin my phone out

I just love how the FBI recently came out and said the alleged shooters were devoted to ISIS because they found a deleted facebook post about it. How you stupid do they think we are ?

How do I explain to somebody that yes, our own government is hiring actual people to mercilessly kill civilians for the sake of propaganda? It always ends up there, and that is just so unbelievable.

Shitty broke county, im born and raised here and trust me shit like this happens all the time. Only reason its a big deal because was some muslim people did it.

I hear black people get shot behind my house all the time and people all yelling and crying, and no cop ever shows up.

Its happened so much that i can pretty much guesstimate when its gonna happen again.

Only reason its a big deal because was some muslim people did it.

Or if what people say in previous replies is right, ALLEGEDLY did it.

I'm still stuck on the thing about people seeing three tall men of athletic build dressed in black and how it turns into a Pakistani couple.

I had a hard time believing this phenomena - that people get shot and killed in this country and police get called, but don't show up - until I watched 'Snow On The Bluff' (available on netflix) which, while i understand is a recreation of the actual film Curtis Snow made with a camera he stole, i think best depicts the kind of life that the impoverished, disenfranchised are FORCED to live.

Sorry to hear that you live in that kind of area, I hope you can stay safe and stay out of dangerous trouble.

You get used to it. All i can hope for is that no bullets come wizzing into my room.

Where in the country are you, if I may ask?

Or to skip ahead past presumption, where in the state of California?

San bernardino

AKA certain parts of Detroit

The Bluff is no joke. The movie though is just a depiction of the life. Just like a similar movie made in Las Angeles called Gang Tapes. Movie starts basically the same where a guy robs a tourist family who makes a wrong turn and gets there camera and car stolen.

they got a conspiracy bone in their body now

I don't have a horse in this race, but I've always wondered why people never consider what another nation state would stand to gain by instigating chaos within our borders. It has been pretty well sussed out that the US has been behind a while host of grey ops in other countries in an attempt to stir up the locals - Arab Spring comes to mind. So why wouldn't other countries do that here? I'm not saying this is the case, but if I were attempting to undermine another government whilst engaging them in economic, cyber and proxy warfare, in an attempt to wrest the Superpower World Champion belt from them, it would be a smart move to do everything I could to destabilize the opposition by supporting (creating?) rebel groups (the new crop of social justice millennials/BLM protestors) as well as equipping terroristic actors to drum up gear amongst the populace.

All these actions serve as a great way of keeping the US government on their heels, looking ineffective as well as prevent them from taking the initiative on a global stage.

...and no, the US (assuming another government has a hand in these attacks) can't call them out on it for fear of initiating WW3 (assuming they could prove it in the first place), at least not until we have the initiative again.

Long night and hungover. Sorry if this doesn't make sense.

Yep. I always wondered if that was what happened in Boston - that the Tsarnaevs were just patsies in an FBI sting that was supposed to be defanged at the last minute, a big PR "win," but some listening nation-state swapped fake explosives for real. Kind of wondered if it was a message to us about interfering in Chechnya.

Oklahoma City is another one that smells a little like a sting gone pear-shaped due to outside influence.

BLM is a way for the jew George Soros to bring down the US.

A third person who was caught running near the scene was detained, but police aren't sure whether he was connected to either shooting.

It'll be interesting to hear what this guy saw during the chase and shootout.

Nothing in your post is proof of anything.

To be honest I find it more suspicious that there are people on here mere minutes after the shooting planting the false-flag narrative in people's heads.

I always thought they were holding off on pulling one of these is So Cal because too much real crime there already ---- so for locals it's much easier to spot differences with a real and a b.s. event -- maybe that's just what's happening.

What I cannot seem to understand is, who are these three operatives that executed the false flag? What perspective or lens are they looking at the world through if they are capable of shooting innocent civilians. What type of person would want to serve such an agency that carries out attacks on civilian populations. I want to understand the psychology of the three white attackers. There have been two separate witnesses that say they saw three men dressed in commando gear with all black and guns, leaving the scene.

There are, sadly, any number of possible reasons human beings could have for doing this.

I understand that there are reasons for carrying out false flag attacks. I don't understand how the government can find willing candidates to carry out attacks on civilian populations.

We don't know if it was "the government" or just some rogue elements of said government or even elements of a foreign government. Regardless, same answer. There are plenty of violent psychopaths out there. Also people so thoroughly owned mind, body and soul by their handlers that they will do anything ordered.

Nihilists mercenaries

Probably Eastern European.

wow yay for the AMA

some suspicious eye witness responses...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armFQWAf9lA '3 white men... '

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CAd0nzkVu4Y 27seconds in 'regular white dudes'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC0JK-zsoaI at 1:13 'i did not see any weapons, but they were probably shooting at the cops, i was scared..'

Can it be ascertained with certainty that there was a recent nearly identical training exercise prior to this event? If so that is further evidence because I believe Boston, LAX and other recent events can be proven to have held prior training events also. This is so far beyond the odds of mere coincidence it must too be exploited in the name of truth. I think I heard it was held in this same building in San Bernardino.

So you're repeating exactly what I was suggesting everyone should do since this incident took place. It's not going to happen. People may want it, but they need actual guidance to achieve this. This is why leadership HAS to exist, because without it, people are lost, even if they know better than to do nothing.

I like it.

The f'ing nerve to put a full ad before a cell phone video...

I honestly have no opinion on this topic in particular, but the more this organized activism stuff comes up the more uncomfortable I get. Im already here, so Im sure the gov knows who I am, and knows I'm just another idiot behind a keyboard, wasting my life. But trying to rise up and also being active on shit like Facebook seems counter productive. There has got to be a better way to reach people with whatever message you have.

"There has got to be a better way to reach people with whatever message you have." Seems like there ought to be, right? I'm open to suggestions. In the meantime I will continue to tell my more intelligent acquaintances how I feel about this event both in person and online. I don't care if that leads to the intel community monitoring me or whatever; I'd rather risk that than live in fear and/or try to lie to myself about my own gut reaction to this.

This organizational activism stuff will be the fall of modern civilization. We are going backwards. They are making colleges more stupid and making people live in ignorance.

I find it kind of interesting that this happens, and not even a few days later, some 'terrorist' attacks happen in the UK. It kind of reminds me of the events of the Iraq war how the US and UK worked together to invade Iraq. Crazy theory, but what if similar motives here to go back to the middle east?

I think some of your concerns can be easily explained. First of all, the police may have a less aggressive policy for chasing suspects but this situation involved people that they beleived comitted mass murder and had the potential to do so again. Obviously in this case they were right to eliminate the threat despite typical protocol. Secondly, the authorities could have identified the suspects before they found their SUV which would have given them the ability to identify their SUV via license plate.

The vehicle was rented. They had no idea who was in it, other than the reported tip.

Very reliable eyewitness accounts.

driving a black Impala ....SUV

Just wondering...how are the shooters race identified at all if they were wearing mask? Why is it that it HAS to be white males and no way possible it was 2 goat fuckers? I think there is a lot of shady shit going on with this, but who did it isn't such a mystery.

You all need to be very clear that the Sandy Hook shooting was not a hoax but this was. The Sandy Hook shooter was an evil monster. These suspects just seem like ordinary people, new parents.

San Bernardino is a hoax but Sandy Hook isn't. If everyone says this then the media will have no defense.

Is there anything that happens that isn't a false flag to you people?

Done and done!

/r/conspiracy is a conspiracy ;)

K

THIS IS ALL IT TAKES? NO WONDER THIS SUB IS WIDELY RIDICULED

ooooh, burn? Yeah, you don't have to read if it so beneath you, you know...

How can you be remotely concerned about facts and evidence? Allow the families to grieve the loss of their loved ones and heal. This process and establishing the ISIS connection should be given precedence. Don't be the boss of your own brain!

Pretty sure he was joking...

sarcasm is hard for me to read because it's usually between the lines and my vision is not that good.

Your comment represents 90% of the population.

sad, i thought he was being sarcastic at first

I think he is being sarcastic?

what's REALLY sad is most people could take the last line away,

Don't be the boss of your own brain!

and they'd have this exact feeling;

Don't ask about whether or not ALL of the evidence and statements/testimonies add up, this is a tragedy for the families who lost loved ones, and we shouldn't ask questions that might disrupt them getting past this time in their lives.

facts and evidence are the only things the majority of the public should be considering right now -- yes, leave those families the hell alone right now -- dedicate your time and energy towards something productive, like figuring out what the fuck happened in the first place, not simply accepting it and moving forward with whatever narrative or rhetoric we're told. (in this case)

Your statement is absolutely fucking retarded I could make a list as long as his on why what you said is absolutely ducking retarded.

He's being sarcastic...

Can't tell if you're really that dense or if you've taken the joke higher than I was expecting

There was no joke, it was just fucking retarded?

So, are you saying you couldn't detect his sarcasm, or are you saying that joking about this is itself what is 'retarded'?

I don't understand during the Sandy Hook shooting everyone was saying 'omg no media images of the school or scene, conspiracy' now everyone is saying 'omg they let media into the scene this is unbelievable'... I really don't get it

what exactly do you not understand? the outrage of people over the contamination of an active crime scene? the lack of accountability by an upper echelon law enforcement agency? The list of unanswered questions?

What do you not get?

If there was no media allowed in the apartment for months then you would all be saying 'wow there's no way this could be real they refuse to show us anything about where the terrorists stayed' you are all just looking for confirmations of whatever ideas you have going on in your head

Irrelevant. That scenario didn't happen. Maybe we would have said that, maybe we wouldn't. Easy there Ms. Cleo. Plus i don't think you can make sweeping generalisations about the users in this sub. LOL @ "you all".

Yeah that scenario didn't happen but if you go back to the past 10 incidents like this to happen in the US I guarantee there were large amounts of users here that would up vote posts pointing to the fact that there were no videos/pictures whatever crime scene.. I've been on this sub for about 3 years and I have to stand up here and call bullshit when I see it.. There are some things we can legitimately call fishy but things like this are not included there

And why are going the ad hom route? Rather than opposing the ideas I'm staying you just talk bullshit 'ms cleo blah blah making sweeping generalization' you're clearly a retard that can't have a proper debate and challenge their own views

I called you ms. cleo as a funny way to highlight your seemingly dubious ability to see into our reactions to scenarios that haven't happened yet. I didn't mean it to attack you instead of attacking your arguement, which seems to be about the users of this sub and their reactions. You're saying we have confirmation bias.

So i'm observing the media being let into an active crime scene, which is an egregious violation of police protocol, and an unprecedented move, by an elite law enforcement group, against a backdrop of questionable timelines and conflicting reports of number of shooters and motives and a plethora of unanswered questions, and adding up all these factors and saying that what is being told to me isn't what the reality is, only confirms a bias i started out with from the get go?

Sorry but i think you're wrong.

All im saying is that you're only confirming your mistrust in the media and the government(higher powers) but what happened then in your opinion? The media only pieces together the information they are given.

Pieces together info they're given? I thought media "investigated"…not just sat on their hands and waited for info to be "given" to them.

not in today's world, i'm afraid.

media members, more and more it seems, have one source semi-distant from any real info, and they run wild with conjecture. it's exciting to the layman who doesn't care much to think more about the given situation or to think critically. People that get blurbs and watch 30 second clips on CNN to recap; they get a jist of a narrative, and then they move on. The media has picked up on the apathy of most Americans and now cater directly to that lack of interest.

San Bernardino Police an Elite Law Enforcement Group? A hahaha.. Now that's a good one. San Bernardino is kind of So Cal's Southern States. Bunch of rednecks and trash. I used to live down there.

The fbi. Not sbpd

I'm with you. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't with a lot of subscribers here. Show the footage, or aftermath and it's, 'well they're obviously crisis actors! The whole thing is staged!' Don't show the footage or aftermath and it's, 'what do they have to hide?!' Ironic too that these same people condemn the media for jumping to conclusions while doing the EXACT same thing in calling it a false flag with absolutely zero evidence and just a bunch of speculation.

Thank you, I'm glad to see there are other sane people here that are also willing to entertain conspiracy when actually questionable facts arise

Their apartment is not the crime scene. We want to see footage inside that facility, footage from the onsite cameras, not CNN. That is where the crime took place

Thank you voice of reason. This case seems pretty plain and dry to me. I appreciate r/conspiracy sometimes tho to always make sure I have a healthy distrust of the government and make sure I never quit questioning things about our world/history/current events. But this case seems pretty clear cut to me.

Exactly, I will never be against questioning of the main story but you have to draw a line at some point

I have never visited this sub before this event, and I for one don't see false flags behind every corner. But the official story here really does not add up. I am honestly not sure how to take your reaction other than to say, I think you ought to look into this more closely. The more I read the more I am disturbed.

It is easier to stage a fake crime scene and let the MSM eat it up and regurgitate it to the masses, than it is to fake multiple surveillance videos from different sources that support the official story, especially if the surveillance videos show 3 male gunmen like several eyewitnesses have indicated.

Presenting a disingenuous, false dichotomy like you are doing is going to only get you downvoted.

No one gives a shit, asshole.

Did you honestly think that you'd achieve something?

Feel better soon

Lol. Not really.

Irrelevant. That scenario didn't happen. Maybe we would have said that, maybe we wouldn't. Easy there Ms. Cleo. Plus i don't think you can make sweeping generalisations about the users in this sub. LOL @ "you all".

Thank you voice of reason. This case seems pretty plain and dry to me. I appreciate r/conspiracy sometimes tho to always make sure I have a healthy distrust of the government and make sure I never quit questioning things about our world/history/current events. But this case seems pretty clear cut to me.

I had a hard time believing this phenomena - that people get shot and killed in this country and police get called, but don't show up - until I watched 'Snow On The Bluff' (available on netflix) which, while i understand is a recreation of the actual film Curtis Snow made with a camera he stole, i think best depicts the kind of life that the impoverished, disenfranchised are FORCED to live.

Sorry to hear that you live in that kind of area, I hope you can stay safe and stay out of dangerous trouble.

what's REALLY sad is most people could take the last line away,

Don't be the boss of your own brain!

and they'd have this exact feeling;

Don't ask about whether or not ALL of the evidence and statements/testimonies add up, this is a tragedy for the families who lost loved ones, and we shouldn't ask questions that might disrupt them getting past this time in their lives.

facts and evidence are the only things the majority of the public should be considering right now -- yes, leave those families the hell alone right now -- dedicate your time and energy towards something productive, like figuring out what the fuck happened in the first place, not simply accepting it and moving forward with whatever narrative or rhetoric we're told. (in this case)

Only reason its a big deal because was some muslim people did it.

Or if what people say in previous replies is right, ALLEGEDLY did it.

I'm still stuck on the thing about people seeing three tall men of athletic build dressed in black and how it turns into a Pakistani couple.

Yet everyone believes that we know attackers yell things like, "for syria," before slashing a throat.

I hear about drills coinciding with attacks like this quite often. Is there a comprehensive resource that shows multiple examples of this correlation?

BLM is a way for the jew George Soros to bring down the US.

The fbi. Not sbpd

Yep. I always wondered if that was what happened in Boston - that the Tsarnaevs were just patsies in an FBI sting that was supposed to be defanged at the last minute, a big PR "win," but some listening nation-state swapped fake explosives for real. Kind of wondered if it was a message to us about interfering in Chechnya.

Oklahoma City is another one that smells a little like a sting gone pear-shaped due to outside influence.

Only when they go against the official narrative of course ;)

Okay well another eyewitness account broadcast on local tv, he witnessed the shooters as they were leaving the scene and he unhesitatingly describes as "three white men in military fatigues"

Here's the full transcript:

Witness: Where I was at right here we seen there were three white men in military fatigues, um taking off.

Q: What were they driving?

Witness: What was it like a... like a black impala... SUV...SUV... or yeah...

Q: Do you think that they might have been the shooters?

Witness: Yeah, the way they were driving...yeah

Q: And how many shots did you hear?"

Witness: Oh, a lot, it was a lot, it sounded like I said it sounded like a gun range just shots going off. It was crazy. It was a lot. A lot of shots.