Gospel of Thomas
12 2015-12-06 by iop111111
Can anyone tell me what exactly this means?
Jesus said "When you make the two into one, and then when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the upper like the lower, and thus make the male and the female the same, so that the male isn’t male and the female isn’t female. When you make an eye replace an eye, and a hand to replace a hand, and a foot to replace a foot, and an image to replace an image, then you will enter the Kingdom."
What is the two that needs to be made into one?
71 comments
4 MrMarmot 2015-12-06
It's both a metaphor for consciousness and the union of opposites – but also a reference to finding "immortality" (entering the kingdom) through cloning and genetic engineering. We can build eyes in pitri dishes now; we've mapped the human genome. So, imagine, if you will, that we can duplicate a person who has just died; all that's lacking is being able to store his/her neural pathways at the time of death, and that person can be "re-fashioned." The two that needs to made into one is absolutely anything that is currently represented by the Tao – male/female, good/evil, light/dark, etc. We are evolving into beings that will have a singular consciousness, and the dualities will no longer need to exist.
If we don't destroy ourselves first...
3 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
As above so bellow as within so without. It's the singularity. It's this idea everything is one. In mathematics this idea is called fractals. I look at it this way, nothing in the observable multiverse occurs as a singularity except for the multiverse itself. Our consciousness is a manifestation of this singularity.
2 iop111111 2015-12-06
These are always the kind of replies I get. What exactly does it mean to do?
How exactly you would go about making the two into one?
6 BloodWillow 2015-12-06
If all is one, there's nothing you need to do. It is, has been, and will continue to be what it is. We're just not aware of this. The two never became one. They've always been one.
When the vision inside reflects the vision outside, and the vision outside reflects the vision inside; you have entered the kingdom. Is my 'kingdom' (vision) the same as yours? Probably not, but they both exist within the Infinite itself. There seem to be many paths to the same destination.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
So then we are living in a reality/universe that is an illusion? (Because we perceive it as separate from the one?)
1 BloodWillow 2015-12-06
You are not separate from the Infinite. You exist in it, as a part of it. This video kinda explains what I'm talking about.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
Yes I know we are not separate but if we perceive everything as separate to us, such as looking at other people, the sky, the earth etc. and we perceive this as separate....then what would you call that?
1 BloodWillow 2015-12-06
I would call it the illusion of separation.
Edit: But it's necessary for the Infinite to exist. All points must, and do exist. You are a representation of this. In other words, you are the embodied Infinite experiencing a piece within the Infinite.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
Does anything exist outside of the infinite?
1 BloodWillow 2015-12-06
That's a tricky question, as the answer is both yes and no. Nothing exists outside the Infinite other than 'nothing', which is itself a thing. So, as far as I understand it the answer is yes, no, neither and both. These are concepts beyond human comprehension, I presume.
2 iop111111 2015-12-06
Interesting.
1 sciportoon 2015-12-06
A family of infinity... or is it a gaggle..
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
No this isn't the matrix. Free will is a very real thing. Destiny has become to specific an idea (a thought-terminating cliche )to use my new favorite term. And there are a lot less coincidences than today's academics want Us to believe.
1 SleazySnake 2015-12-06
The illusion of free will is very persistent.
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
care to elaborate?
1 SleazySnake 2015-12-06
Imagine a copper penny that is exactly like an ordinary penny except that for this discussion it has consciousness. It knows it is a coin and it knows that you sometimes flip it. And it knows that no external force dictates whether it comes up heads or tails on any individual flip.
If the penny’s consciousness were like human consciousness, it would analyze the situation and conclude that it had free will. When it wanted to come up heads, and heads was the result, the penny would confirm its belief in its power to choose. When it came up tails instead, it would blame its own lack of commitment, or assume God had a hand in it.
The imaginary coin would believe that things don’t just ‘happen’ without causes. If nothing external controlled the results of the flips, a reasonable penny would assume that the control came from its own will, influenced perhaps by God’s will, assuming it were a religious penny.
The penny’s belief in its own role would be wrong, but the penny’s belief in God’s role would be right. Probability—the essence of God’s power—dictates that the penny must sometimes come up tails even when the penny chooses to be heads.
The scientific principle states that any specific cause, no matter how complex, must have a specific effect. Therefore, we believe two realities that cannot both be true. If one is true, the other must be false.
from Gods Debris
2 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
I think I follow. What if neither of the realities are true? Do we assume the existence of an as of yet unexplained reality?
2 SleazySnake 2015-12-06
That would have to be a possibility
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
It's always going on. The only way for it to have power is to know it exists and how to manipulate it. This is why we don't have a free and open global communication . That power would be paradigm shattering.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
Huh? Don't understand what you're saying...sorry.
3 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
http://youtu.be/IGLm9cw8q5w
Absorb this stuff my friend! I hope it helps you come to the same ideas I have or even better ideas! Its hard to absorb ideas if we haven't done the home work . I recommend magical Egypt to all of you as homework.
1 SilentShills 2015-12-06
I think you'd really like this.
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Why is that?
1 SilentShills 2015-12-06
I just read your comment and it reminded me of that website.
2 lordofjives 2015-12-06
consciousness maybe. What I get from the passage is when everyone helps one another you'll enter the kingdom.
2 metabolix 2015-12-06
I think so too. When we are all equal and share the same consciousness.
2 UcDat 2015-12-06
the ying and the yang we are all one containing both once we understand this and gain control over our reality we enter the kingdom
this books great by the way also sums up what money really is.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
which is?
1 UcDat 2015-12-06
human energy
1 untumulted 2015-12-06
I was considering this the other day. Perhaps it is supposed to be taken literally.
The days of entering the Kingdom are not far off as we are capable of physically doing many of these things.
1 metabolix 2015-12-06
That's the mistake most "religions" make - take things literally.
1 MrMarmot 2015-12-06
Bingo.
1 Estamio2 2015-12-06
This based on two truly opposite things:
A Right-Hand spin annihilates a Left-Hand spin.
Spins or "threads" are two absolutely opposite things with no "mix" or hybrids. Secure a rubber band in its middle and twist one end Right and the other Left. Then release the middle.
1 toneii 2015-12-06
And the twain shal become one is a reference to the seed of Shem and Ham interbreeding.
1 NonThinkingPeeOn 2015-12-06
This passage is talking about non duality. To live in the awareness of what you truly are. Most people identify with the physical form and reside fully in the material world. People see separateness between "self" and everything else. That is living in the illusion of duality. There is no separation. Beyond the illusion of form and physical matter, it is all one single, whole. You can reside in physical form and live in the physical world, but at the same time not deriving your identity in the dense plane of physicality. "Be in the world, but not of the world."
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
hmmm interesting...what's some ways I can do to go beyond living the illusion of form and physicality? and knowing and acknowledging that it's one single whole?
3 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Personally I smoke a lot of weed. But I also meditate. If you have trouble meditating I recommend picking up a hand skill like drawing , calligraphy or sculpting or really anything that allows you to realize you are not a body you are a radio wave of consciousness. Sometimes drugs like psychedelic mushrooms can be used to shake off our ego and see the world more clearly. The earth has provided everything we need to help us learn and grow.
2 sciportoon 2015-12-06
We should hang out.
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Is it paranoid for me to think that there's a hidden force that doesn't want you and I to meet? some sort of modern day black magic? Is that the reason the term for magic has never been able to evolve beyond the supposed childlike dogma that's been applied to to it( thanks Harry Potter) but is in actuality a way of going about enacting a scenario through collective conscious energy and the earths own energy that aims to divide a nation and control a people?
2 sciportoon 2015-12-06
Ya, like cutting up a magnetic standing waveform somehow... If people who see clearly see together we might tear the veil of illusion. You cut deep brother, who knows we may have already met!
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
what about taking adderall and studying? I shake off my ego and am in my 'flow' when I do this
2 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
That could work I guess. Haven't dabbled too much with amphetamines but I've seen plenty of my friends become addicted to them and it's not a pretty end result. I would say everything in moderation . Except for weed. Lol.
Edit: so long as you take them as prescribed by a doctor shouldn't be a problem!
If your interested in the psychedelic approach I recommend listening to what graham Hancock has to say about ayahuasca and the proper ways to go about having these higher conscious experiences .
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
Won't get addicted....only use them to study, and never smoked weed...thanks for the advice.
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
I thought about this a bit. I have this to say. The meditation you achieve while studying is good but I think that a stronger form of meditation is achieved when the end result is a purely selfish one. A homework assignment has ulterior motives no matter how much you enjoy it. I would say the key to good meditation is a personal hobby anything from poetry-fishing. The intent is what matters the most.
1 Nutricidal 2015-12-06
He's talking about duality. Yin and yang. You cannot understand who you are, unless you explore everything that's inside you. You cannot understand the light unless you have seen darkness. When you see that you are both one and the same, then two become one. Then you find peace/heaven. Good luck on your lifelong journey of discovering this truth.
1 OregonianMerlin 2015-12-06
I live the gospel if Thomas. In this verse, I believe it's not a process we do but something we realize. Everything is one, just with our current level of perception we don't or can't always see it.
It's when we begin to recognize this that the two, our awareness, becomes singular and we become more aware of consciousness is rather than our perception of what it is. We remove our glasses and see much more clearly.
1 OregonianMerlin 2015-12-06
Apologies for the wonderful auto-correct, that was supposed to be love the gospel of Thomas lol.
1 MaxwellStaxwell 2015-12-06
Everything is everything.
0 Autocoprophage 2015-12-06
the Jesus from the Gospel of Thomas is a false Jesus. If you want to know what that false Jesus was talking about, you can enroll in any mystery school, or read into any occult literature, or, better yet, summon demons and learn from them, and they'll tell you exactly how to make the two into one and coalesce the male and the female. But in my experience your delving into that rabbit hole will only make you more deaf to what the true Jesus was actually talking about, which is a very bad idea. (Hint: the male represents the kinetic and the material, while the female represents the potential and the spiritual. To make the male and the female the same is to experience demonic possession and share the will of demons.)
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
huh...how is that being evil
1 Autocoprophage 2015-12-06
basically, the male principle is the active force, the initiative that enacts change, while the female principle is the passive force, the opportunity that enables initiative and draws that initiative to itself. All mystery teaching refers to the coalescence of these two things, though it goes by many names. Anything you see about evolving the consciousness, for example, is a reference to this coalescence. The evolved consciousness recognizes opportunity and thereby takes the appropriate initiative to seize that opportunity, making the two into one. The part where evil comes in is how this world in present day is absolutely overrun by demonic powers. That is, the world is so overrun that each avenue of opportunity made available to the evolved, spiritual consciousness is actually an avenue engineered by demons. To recognize these opportunities with an evolved consciousness and fulfill them is therefore to do the will of demons - essentially to share one will with demons. There is much about this subject that will be impossible to grasp completely for one who is not spiritual, but I promise you I am telling the truth: you, and everyone, should stay as far away from these things as possible and instead sincerely examine the true Jesus of the Bible without prejudice. The occult is not a toy, the condition of your soul is a very serious thing, and Jesus actually does save in real life, straight up. If you can accept this information, please, accept it.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
Please expand on this part. It is very interesting but I can't fully grasp that part.
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Honestly buddy he's just trying to scare you. Not saying he doesn't believe what he's saying and a lot of it is true it's just peppered with too much fear mongering. Read everything and decide for yourself even this dude! but, entertaining a thought is one thing accepting it is another and building up that intuition to understand which is which takes effort. The only thing to fear is fear it's self "
0 Autocoprophage 2015-12-06
It's peppered with "fear mongering" on purpose, since the only way to discover these things for yourself is to do harm to yourself. I would rather someone be scared away from these things, or to stay away from them on the basis of trusting my post, than to have someone understand these things accurately and suffer the effects of that.
1 sciportoon 2015-12-06
Sounds a lot like getting married....
-2 Subzeb8 2015-12-06
Have you asked a Christian sub? Might have better luck than here.
-3 jacks1000 2015-12-06
Nothing. It's just a bunch of ancient mumbo-jumbo.
3 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
That's very unproductive .
0 jacks1000 2015-12-06
No, it's not unproductive, it's the truth.
You can spend a lot of time trying to find meaning in bizarre gibberish from ancient drug-addled mystics, but you aren't going to learn anything.
What makes you think there is some "hidden meaning" in the gibberish? Remember, the Gospel of Thomas was essentially stuck in the back of a library and forgotten about. It basically had no effect on anyone and was ignored for 2,000 years.
You'd find more enlightenment reading a college physics textbook.
3 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
I'm of the belief system that the pursuit of all knowledge is the only way to gain wisdom. I believe that by processing and synthesizing all of the information that I can I start to see a much more clear and substantial world view. I'm sorry you don't see the value in this but I hope your views do not reflect the general consensus as I see it as very destructive to dismiss the wisdom of the ancients.
Tldr: respect your elders.
0 jacks1000 2015-12-06
Ah yes, like how demons cause disease and magical amulets protect you from the evil eye.
Eh, I'll stick to electricity and indoor plumbing.
2 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Do find it difficult to understand allegory and metaphor? Just because you struggle with these concepts does not mean everyone is blind.
1 jacks1000 2015-12-06
No, I'm perfectly capable of understanding allegory and metaphor.
I'm also able to distinguish between wisdom and gibberish.
2 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
If you say so...
1 jacks1000 2015-12-06
Good luck with your quest for esoteric knowledge in the scribbling of ancient druggies.
2 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
What's wrong with drugs?
1 jacks1000 2015-12-06
What's right with drugs?
1 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Probably one of those things your gunna have to find out for yourself. I do hope some day drug addicts will be treated as patients instead of criminals and consenting adults will be free to safely explore their own consciousness. Until then, See yah out there in the dark ages!
1 sciportoon 2015-12-06
Our body makes them and regulates your brain function with them.
1 iop111111 2015-12-06
Why do you say they were drug addled?
1 sciportoon 2015-12-06
Most thing we consider drugs have been considered sacred plants by many across the globe for... well for a long time. Go check out Graham Hancock...
3 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
http://youtu.be/IGLm9cw8q5w
Absorb this stuff my friend! I hope it helps you come to the same ideas I have or even better ideas! Its hard to absorb ideas if we haven't done the home work . I recommend magical Egypt to all of you as homework.
2 iop111111 2015-12-06
Interesting.
2 giantfrogfish 2015-12-06
Do find it difficult to understand allegory and metaphor? Just because you struggle with these concepts does not mean everyone is blind.
1 sciportoon 2015-12-06
Most thing we consider drugs have been considered sacred plants by many across the globe for... well for a long time. Go check out Graham Hancock...
1 sciportoon 2015-12-06
A family of infinity... or is it a gaggle..