This is a lot of info. You need to put this together into a book and self-publish on Lulu. If someone did this for each one of these suspicious events, we'd have great resources to always go back to when this stuff happens in the future.

[deleted]

And just to add to this persons point, that is absolutely correct. Your just asking to be suicided. Be careful my friend. Your doing humanity a favor, but you may pay with your life.

It's a dangerous game sure, but you make it seem more like the frontlines of war.

It is the frontline.

This person gets it 😉

Hey I just calls them as I sees them from my clearly American loving corner of the internet.

 

PS. Hi NSA!

It's a shame that talking about reality in such an honest fashion can get a person suicided these days.

Picture it. America 50 years from now on 2065. An old man is having a conversation with his beloved grandson. Boy, when I was a kid we were allowed to a call a school bus yellow without being killed for it...

Wow Grandpa, society was so uncivilized back then! At Sandy Hook, were taught that calling the sky blue, or stating out loud that pigs, by law of nature, absolutely cannot fly, has taken a risk at collapsing all of civilization! It could lead to anarchy and collapse of society! The only word to be spoken are words that are LEGAL! We're in a democracy, the laws change when something is broken because we run it duh! Obviously they are illegal FOR A REASON. I just can't WAIT to go to school tomorrow and tell my teacher a real life example of just how bad things can get from slip of the tongue! Love you pappy

Grandpa dies within days after realizing all hope is lost in the war. The war for Homo Sapiens right to not be domesticated and enslaved, like many species before it. Only a "miracle" will bring us back to a world resembling anything REMOTELY like 2015. Ok now I'm sad.

Well it kinda is. Proverbially, and in real life.

Editor here. Let me know what I can do to help.

write and publish!!!!!!!

I would recommend anonymous. But the world needs someone who can get change.

Get this done soon. Like today. Spread this everywhere.

do it.

Here transcripts of the only two first-hand eyewitness interviews that were broadcast on tv:

Witness 1

Scott Pelley: One of the witnesses today is _____, who works at the Inland Regional Center, the building where the attack took place. She saw the attackers enter the building and we spoke to her by phone.

Witness: I heard umm shots fired and it was you know from an automatic weapon so you know it was very unusual... why, you know why would we hear shots? As we look out the window a second set of shots goes off, and its just pop-pop-pop-pop-pop-pop and we saw a man fall to the floor. Then we just looked and we saw three men dressed in all black military attire with vests on they were holding assault rifles and they (breathes) as soon as they opened the door to building three and one of them opened up the door to building three he started to spray shoot, you know shoot all over into the room, that's the room that we typically have conferences in, and we just heard more gun shots go off. I got my phone. I reached for my phone. I called 911 and I just hid under my desk. I didn't see anymore, I just heard more gunshots go off as I was talking to the dispatch. We went into my manager's office, locked the door, barricaded it. We heard running and things happening upstairs. About 30 minutes later someone came to the door, knocked on the door. But we didn't obviously answer. Then another 60 minutes later someone came and took us into a secure room.

Scott Pelley: Ms. ____ can you describe to me in as much detail as you can, what did the gunmen look like?

Witness: I couldn't see his face, he had a black hat on and from my view all I could see was a black hat and black long sleeve shirt, possibly gloves on. Ummm... he had black cargo pants on the kind with the zippers on the side and the big puffy pockets. He had a huge assault rifle and he had extra ammo. He was coming ready for, he was coming ready for something. To reload I don't know. He had [inaudible] magazines. Umm... I couldn't see what else, I just saw three dressed exactly the same.

Scott Pelley: You're certain that you saw three men?

Witness: Yes, it looked like their skin color was yeah, was white. They looked like they were athletic build and umm... they appeared to be tall.

Witness 2

Witness: Where I was at right here we seen there were three white men in military fatigues, um taking off.

Q: What were they driving?

Witness: What was it like a... like a black impala... SUV...SUV... or yeah...

Q: Do you think that they might have been the shooters?

Witness: Yeah, the way they were driving...yeah

Q: And how many shots did you hear?"

Witness: Oh, a lot, it was a lot, it sounded like I said it sounded like a gun range just shots going off. It was crazy. It was a lot. A lot of shots.

I might able to get you info. My brothers disabled and has workers that work with him that go there. If I ever get info on anything, I'll let you know man

So my mom refuses to give me her number and insists that if she does know something, I'm going to incriminate myself haha

[removed]

You may want to edit that out; the admins will most likely consider it doxxing and everything will get deleted/you banned. It's probably more important for the rest of the info you posted to stay up than leave that one little tidbit... Just saying. :)

Thanks.

I just posted about this. This is super suspicious to me. The most suspicious, perhaps.

Let me first applaud OP and everyone here for questioning things laid out by the government and media both. A lot of shit gets reported wrong, important things don't get reported, and stupid BS makes headlines.

But... you're doing it all wrong. First off, let me tell you that I am former military and currently a first responder, so I have a strong understanding of the systems you're using for OSINT, or open source intel. Kudos on the technique and sources, but your understanding of them is leading you to flawed work. Let me outline how, so that you can dig deeper into things - I'm not being critical to be a dick.

1. Scanner traffic is almost %100 unreliable when coming from dispatch. Why? Dispatch is in a locked down secured office with no windows. They're ONLY able to relay what citizens or other units call in and report. They're not on scene and trust me when I say the average person calling in is almost always wrong. Sometimes they don't know better, sometimes it's second hand and theyre extrapolating, sometimes they like fucking with us. Field units, such as fire, ems, and police can be wrong too. Even when the scene is all around you shits confusing.

2. The good stuff never goes out on the air. Detailed call notes and updates get messages to the mobile data terminal in their vehicles. Units can message each other and dispatch here too. Anything sensitive goes via encrypted data via computer, so most of the radio traffic is using these messages as context that is hidden from listeners. If it has to go out over radio and is sensitive such as victims names or tactical movements, encrypted channels are activated so you cant listen anyway. This can account for inaccuracies heard over air, and a seemingly sudden or silent change or redirection of efforts or information... its because the updated info went out over the MDTs everyone read. There's no recap because this system is for the people working, not for you. They stay up to date and don't even think about giving a fuck if some poor scanner hobbiest is confused.

3. People are stupid and gossipy. This goes especially for the media. Yes, they have an agenda - to get as much ratings as possible. People on scene are this way too, but for their own twitter accounts. Ive literally been holding pressure on gunshot wounds while the persons friend is walking around asking when the news crews will be there. ... more than once. This reinforces point 1 that people are stupid, confused, and don't get information right and builds to point number 3 that: People can't keep their yaps shut. Things like staged attacks, actors, falsified crime scenes that are sets wouldnt last a fucking second because people would be on that story like flies on shit.

4. That would also mean good men like me and better men and women that I work with would be a part of setting shit up to fool and traumatize the communities we work and live in. For what? A corrupt, broken government? Money? No. Fucking. Way. I find it personally offensive when people tell me that the shattered lives I've experienced are fake, that me putting my ass on the line is an act and the reasons I can't sleep and visit my therapist Jack Daniels is a conspiracy theory. (Down vote away.) I know people are fucked and there are real conspiracies, but no local responder will ever betray their community like that. In 99% of America Your local responders will literally die for you, and some have (Colorado) so if you think that's fake fuck you.

5. The sad truth is all of the good info is obtainable only to those on the inside. The second best thing is people who were there, and a very very distant third is media. Cuz unless you got one of the first two types of intel, the media is all you got.

So while I applaud your efforts, please realize you do not have good intel from just the scanner recordings. It can, if its correct, give you a better picture than the media offers. But it is usually not correct AND there is hidden context in computer messages you can't see. You simply cant base a hypothesis solely on radio chatter and media reports.

The big picture here is that people are dumb, first responders do their honest best but aren't perfect, and there is no real freedom of information. Big brother is alive and well and YOU aren't allowed to know jack shit. (And for 99.9999% of everything I am not allowed to know jack shit either.)

Edit: I am on my cell phone, so please pardon the shitty typing. Another point I wanted to make was just because you notice various groups standing around "not doing anything" does NOT mean that A) theyre not doing anything or B) somebody else isn't out doing it. There is VERY strict rules for who's doing what based on their assignment. Just because you don't know the rules you look for patterns that are logical to you... but the reality is that unless you know what's going on, you can't tell from the outside in what's going on. (This is because in all honesty it is completely fucking illogical to anyone who doesn't do this.) I suggest looking at the homeland security ICS (incident command system) courses that are free online if you want a basic structure to get familiar with.

Incident commanders are top paid brass - old farts with lots of experience - because keeping track of all the moving pieces in this game is a nightmare. Even if you were ushered into the command vehicle and could see all the units on all the maps you'd still have to know the rules each unit plays by.. which is different for each unit. If you see people standing around it's because they: are waiting at that spot to be called into action, are waiting for the action to come to them, are there to prevent action if ABC occurs, are there to stop action from happening if XYZ occurs, etc. You cant have officers (especially SERT or SWAT or whatever cali calls em) running around if ANY detail is missing. Action is referred to as high intensity, low frequency. As opposed to waiting around for actionable intel which is known as high frequency low intensity.

I hope this helps. If you have general questions I can answer, but I was NOT there and I'm also going to bed because night shift, but I'll wake up in a few hours anyway.

Nice post. It should be higher.

I honestly haven't paid as much attention to this latest mass shooting, but underlying assumptions that Sandy Hook and other events were staged is wrong.

Here's why I believe these events are susceptible to this sort conspiratorial observations:

1. Until the situation is assessed, police dispatchers, citizens and everyone else report lots of unrelated events just to be on the safe side. Basically, there are lots of well-intentioned reports that don't have anything to do with anything.

2. These early reports are frequently contradictory, don't make sense, and are dropped for no known reason. Often, things can quickly be ruled out, or don't turn out to be anything and it may seem suspicious more isn't reported.

3. Media make mistakes as they try to make sense of things, and when they do, policy implications are often brought up as filler.

4. Gov't lockdown crime scenes to preserve evidence and control notification of next-of-kin. This can seem to have a sinister purpose.

5. Witnesses willing to go on camera are notoriously unreliable. They may just be looking for attention and make stuff up, or more often, know little and are confused themselves.

6. There are always reports of more suspects since everyone is on guard.

Exactly. Just like in Sandy Hook, a parent of a student wearing camo was walking towards the school. Someone reported it, and it got blasted over the police radios and the media as a "shooter in camo firing from the woods". They even have video of someone getting arrested after one such report.

Now if a shooting would happen in a public area and there weren't any initial contradictory reports, confusion, or police keeping people quiet, that would be suspicious.

Thank you to both of these comments. This kind of contradictory misinformation in the initial reports is so often embraced as concrete evidence of a cover-up by onlookers, most people don't realize that it is just a natural part of the chaos, and is certainly accepted as such by law enforcement.

The tiniest bit of misinformation can snowball. For instance, in the case of James Holmes, I am frustrated at the fact that people still claim he referred to himself as the Joker. This never happened. A NYCPD ranking officer, hours after the shooting when he had no concrete idea of what the Aurora police were dealing with, claimed to the press that Holmes had referred to himself as the Joker. This little tidbit of bullshit lit up the imaginations of the public, that this man indeed envisioned himself the mass murdering psychotic of the Batman mythos; it is more likely that the NYCPD officer had heard a joke or rumor from a cohort, inspired by Holmes' dyed hair. I know that many are on the fence to this day about Holmes, whether or not he was "programmed" by the Gov't or one of its arms, or whether the man shown on trial was Holmes at all. I recently attended a seminar given by an Aurora official (can't provide details, it's a work thing) detailing how they dealt with the shooting, the investigation, and the sentencing. While I am personally still on the fence regarding the second gunman theory, or where Holmes got the $10,000 to buy all his equipment when he was on unemployment, there is no doubt in my mind that Holmes was everything they concluded him to be: an emotionally disturbed criminal genius, a guy who was able to adapt his skill with neuroscience into the planning and execution of a massive shooting that rocked the US, and the construction of a highly complex and deadly set of explosives that baffled bomb squads on the scene. Some people might not like that answer, but it seems like the right one to me after seeing handwritten lists of weaponry, notes on bomb making, diary entries, text messages to friends, emails to family and teachers, and crime scene photos of the death trap that was Holmes' apartment.

And yes, as you said, people do indeed get involved as witnesses in cases such as this simply for attention, just as people claim to have been abducted and probed by aliens, just as hundreds of people have come forward claiming to be responsible for killing sprees. I am highly suspicious of witnesses, all the way to the end.

I believe the claims of law enforcement regarding the Holmes case, because I have seen a convincing amount of evidence. Evidence, not witness testimony, not the conflicting details in early reports, evidence of premeditation. There may be a deeper story there, but as far as I am concerned I am personally closing the case. After all the tumult dies down regarding San Bernardino, I'll begin to do my personal investigation into that, but again, will make my decisions based on available concrete evidence reviewed by experts, not witness testimony and speculation.

Edit: and yes I am aware of the theorized connection between Holmes and Lanza through their involvement as witnesses in the Libor trial, and that Holmes' father didn't testify. An interesting connection indeed, but by and large a little too complex for me to speculate on without that 20/20 hindsight that is EVIDENCE.

Another strange phenomenon is that there are always weird connections and happenstances when you look at any event closely enough. For instance, I'm in the camp that believes Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone, so I've read quite a bit on Kennedy's assassination. One of the hard things to slog through is all the strange coincidences--who was in town, who just left, who got Oswald the job at the book depository, who visited Jack Ruby, etc. There is a pretty well known "Umbrella Man" who, strangely, opened his umbrella just as Kennedy and his motorcade passed by. I always assumed it was sinister, why would someone have an umbrella on a sunny day in Dallas in November and just happen to open it right then??? Well, he was making some odd protest against Kennedy family appeasement of Hitler before WWII.We know this because someone tracked down the guy many years later. Weird, weird, weird...but if you look close enough there are always these oddities, and deciding which ones matter and which ones don't is hard work.

when you start to pick at the little threads that stitch the theory together it all has a tendency to become unraveled.

Now if a shooting would happen in a public area and there weren't any initial contradictory reports, confusion, or police keeping people quiet, that would be suspicious.

This is an excellent point. One of the hallmarks of the JFK assassination is that the cover story blaming Lee Harvey Oswald came together with supernatural speed -- and it never changed. The government narrative of a lone Communist nut as assassin was in place within two days of President Kennedy's assassination and it was ultimately served up -- unchanged -- as the Warren Commission Report.

It was the lack of divergence that gave away the phony narrative sold to the American public.

you dont know sandy hook very well and boston was only half fake

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yMdynxBDVQ

Thank you man, a post that makes fucking sense.

And Breitbart is not a reliable source.

How long have you had this response racked up and ready to go? If anyone is reading this and thinking this is an actual random person on the Internet saying this stuff, then you got a bit of the way down the rabbit hole to go yet. The shilling around here is getting easier and easier to see all the time.

You think anyone who disagrees with you is a shill and we have fallen to far down the rabbit hole. I think it is funny that your shill spends so much time on /r/movies.

Good write up man

[deleted]

[deleted]

Are you a subscriber to the fbi "six week cycle"?

Have you heard the scanner from the moment the first call came in?

I would be very interested in talking with the cop/swat guy who went by Lincoln3 on the radio.

do you remember anything about a girl with an AR on a roof threatening to jump?

Fascinating. I'm glad people are going through these scanners and matching it with what we are told. Thank you so much for doing that.

This is all quite complex, but if we get more ears on these scanner recordings, we should be able to crowdsource the effort.

Random thought I am going to chime in here: If this were a false flag, consider that even certain scanner frequencies can be faked. If you are getting links immediately to police scanners during these events, always remember there is a scanner you don't have access to.

Other than that excellent post :)

I listened to them while watching live local (LA) news. They said they had run the suspect a week prior. Also there was a couple who said they saw orange shirt guy 3 times with a rifle, and they hid behind a postal service truck in fear. This was as the focus was shifting to the residence and they had live crews around the church.

Spot on analysis! I would be willing to bet that they use the same crew of thugs for all these false flags. You could probably connect prints from all these events to two or three of the same dudes. Too bad the police control all the "crime scenes" and all.

I'm struck by the fact that they seem to be getting less wrong with each attack.

Practice makes perfect, even in fucked up situations

Not entirely. A lot of times, the shooters/bombers do indeed die. Usually killed by police instead of captured alive. They manufacture these "mentally ill" people, unleash them, then kill them so they won't have a chance to tell their side of the story. And the media can paint them however they want. Notice how it's always a "lonely guy, very quiet and secluded, no friends, usually only a has mother, not much family. Usually a dropout, no real online accounts, etc". These people don't fit the mold of society because they never were in society to begin with.

I was following this live while it happened. The scanners and Fox 10 Phoenix reported that the choppers had to leave because they were taking fire.

Then a DHS plane (rumored to have a dirtbox equipped) began circling the area: http://www.flightradar24.com/data/airplanes/n404kr/#826791d (pan to the right). Google "N404KR DHS aircraft" to make the connection.

Infographic on dirtboxes: http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/P1-BR921A_SPYFL_9U_20141113175201.jpg

(Reposted from thread)

i work in aerial imaging. let me know if i can be of assistance when/if data is received.

Aren't you concerned for your safety?

I agree. They learned from Sandy Hook. They made sure to have an actual photo op of the "perp". Remember, there are no pics of Adam Lanza at that school. They are also going to limit the number of actors. It got out of hand with Sandy Hook, and I really think they expected to get away with it.

They also might acutally have recorded some fake surveillance footage this time of a man and woman walking in. But we'll never see anything conclusive. They'll never release the dashcams from that shootout. I think this False Flag might be the one that actually hits mainstream and opens up peoples minds. If nothing else, this might expose Sandy Hook to more people--that to me, is the worst thing the country has ever done to its people. Pure treason and terrorism. How do they explain the Full Size SUZ with tinted windows? Still going with the rental car story?! It's just embarrassing.

[deleted]

I know people who were directly impacted by that shooting. Are they actors too?

I met a little boy (and grandpa) at an Aquarium about 5 or 6 months after who was in a class next to one that was shot up in Sandy Hook.. (not sure how we (my family) found out he was involved, I think we were waiting in line for something and were talking about where we were from). It's not like we discussed it much (as to not traumatize them more), but there's no way the whole thing was completely staged.

Uh huh

I mean, to me at least, it seems silly that I would lie about something like that.. Kind of a waste of time lol

I don't think so. Think of how many people would have to be involved...

It has already been established that Sandy hook was a FEMA capstone drill. They even admitted it during the hearings with Wolfgang Halbig.

Want to provide any evidence for what has apparently already been established?

Uh huh

Let me guess, you know someone that knows someone.

Yea yea, we've all heard this before. My grandma's sons daughters hamster babysitter knew someone who dug a hole in the backyard of a sandyhook victim right? That school was out of commission for years. No one died.

yeah because high schoolers are old enough to comprehend a horrific event. Elementary age children are not.

yeh because reading a few sentences from a stranger on the internet is going to both educate and convince /S

no redpill, no shortcuts, you want truth it takes careful application of time and intellect. re: sandyhook starting here is as good as anywhere

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yMdynxBDVQ 70 fun packed minutes

spend another week or so on it and you will be nearly upto speed with the rest of us

Random checking in here. What are the official r/conspiracy (i am not being sarcastic, i am just approacing with an open mind) investigation and evidence on Sandy Hook, OKC and Waco?

I think they realized their old strategy of having arabs plant fake bombs wasn't really working.

Especially after those reports stating something like 90%+ of terror incidents were planned and executed by the feds and not actually by terrorists.

It got out of hand with Sandy Hook, and I really think they expected to get away with it.

yep you can tell that, it was confirmed when the standard shill script became "how could it have been about gun control - it never worked" a real spinners spin that one

Exactly!

Are you listening in on a police scanner?

So that means you're in San Bernadino?

Much respect for doing this. This is the kind of research we need. Fact based rather than speculation. Yesterday I did a scene by scene break down of the latest ISIS video noting the many irregularities. Felt good to do some proper analysis. Keep up the good work. Why are you doing this if I may ask? And where do you find the time? Were you listening in real time on the scanner or can you somehow record the calls/broadcasts and then review later. Very interested in what you're doing. Cheers from South Africa.

I'm from the San Bernardino area, my sister is an emergency dispatcher. I think you reading a lot into the scanner traffic. The reports I heard on the scanner sounded pretty typical for San Bernardino. They were just following every suspicious report. You also have to remember that there are several methods for law enforcement to communicate, so the picture you get is muddled.

I will say my sister believes there was a third shooter, and law enforcement is being quiet about that possibility. Also, the calls my sister's work got from the scene said the shooters looked middle eastern.

Can you link your ISIS video analysis and your credentials? I'm insterested.

Here's the video: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4da_1449237693.

With regards to credentials, I don't have any other than that I work in the medical industry and perform blood tests on a regular basis, so I'm familiar with blood. If you look at the earlier ISIS videos, you'll notice that a lot of the blood looks quite light in colour, almost like tomato sauce or ketchup. Where as all blood I've seen in real life (and in other videos of what are considered to be real executions) is much darker in colour. If you watch that Mexican chainsaw beheading video you'll see what I'm talking about. Compare that to ISIS supposed beheadings. I don't actually recommend you watch that video though, it's probably the single most disgusting thing I've ever seen.

This is my analysis of the ISIS video:

04:57 - 1st execution. No blood spray visible from first angle as guy is shot in the head. The guy falls, the kid shoots again - still no blood, just gushes of air. Only in the next angle do you see the head wound and blood. Looks quite real.

However, how is it possible to get shot in the head without immediately sustaining a visible bullet wound and without causing a blood spray? It doesn't make sense.

07:25 - 2nd execution. No blood spray as man gets shot point blank in the head.

09:20 - 3rd execution. No blood spray and no visible bullet wound in first angle as man gets shot in the head twice at point blank range.

10:45 - 4th execution. No blood spray as man gets shot in the face at point blank range.

12:23 - 5th execution. No blood visible as man gets shot in the face in the dark, but with light being shone on his face.

14:07 - 6th execution. Lots of blood visible as kid cuts at man's throat. Approximately 5 seconds of the cutting is shown, buy in slow motion. So probably around 2 - 3 seconds of real time cutting is shown, while the video flashes and then abruptly cuts before any significant throat wound can be observed.

Overall I'd rate this one a 7/10 - looks quite real at times, but the total lack of any blood or bullet wounds with the first shot of each execution, in my opinion, exposes this an elaborate fake. Watch for yourself and let me know what you think.

Cheers from South Africa :)

Very interesting. Will be looking at all that for sure. Thank you.

I knew the second I watched dozens of LEOs casually walking around the crime scene that it was a FF. There was no sense of urgency to find these escaped terrorists. It was unbelievable. They would have reviewed every possible piece of footage, had a license plate, and had the whole city on lockdown.

I haven't really been following this closely (I'm a Canuck in Berlin) .. but wasn't that "reporters in the apartment" fiasco also mind-boggling?

Like .. when has that ever happened before with something of this gravity? Any evidence that was there was destroyed or compromised.

That's the part that made me take notice, and I'm not at all surprised by what I'm seeing here.

This shit is getting old.

What I don't get is .. if there was some kind of need for a False Flag .. why not just set off a bomb somewhere and kill a dozen people? It seems like it would be sooo much easier to "control" a situation like that, and if you drop some passports or "find some irrefutable evidence" it seems like the effect would still be there - panic, revenge, etc etc.

With all of the "moving parts" that go on here .. it seems .. I dunno, sloppy? Careless? "Vulnerable"?

Unless this is all about something TOTALLY different and we are all off base. Aliens, maybe? :)

The apparent growing sophistication demonstrated by this post is one of the more chilling things. As far as the "Why?" I have no idea, and you make a good point. It's all about the narrative, and how they can use the events to further their agenda, whatever it may be.

They are definitely getting better at the choreography of it all.

3 tall white guys in what sounds like SWAT gear? Fuck.

They've just used the set off a bomb somewhere and kill a dozen people at Boston. If you keep doing the same thing people will catch on

It still seems really "untidy", y'know?

Soooo many chances for people to see/record contrary evidence. And the apartment..? Why not just plant, and find, damning evidence and leave it "normal" instead of the "weird and exceptional" reporter trick? Why not plant "smoking gun" evidence instead of the "barely there" connection to terrorists that they have?

Seems like just as much chance of people "catching on" here. The whole thing just seems weird.

Yea almost as weird as two eye witnesses describing 3 tall white athletic men in black army fatigues. The FBI allowing media to break into the home of the alleged suspect with nothing more than a screw driver. The FBI being so incompetent as to leave the passports and drivers licenses laid out on the couples bed along with an inventory list of all of the munitions that were allegedly found their. The 125lb wife carrying her body weight in gear simultaneously posting to Facebook exactly 1 minute after the shooting began declaring her allegiance to isis. The fact that there is no cctv or security camera footage of the alleged shooters at the scene of the shooting. The fact that there was a swarm of cop cars chasing the guy before the shoot out yet not a single dash cam video of the shoot out has been released. Yet the only eye witness cell phone video of the shootout has the guy filming saying the police just started shooting.

Yea almost as weird as two eye witnesses describing 3 tall white athletic men in black army fatigues.

So this is what I mean right here. Like .. couldn't they find 3 dark-skinned hispanic guys that would look "terrorist-y enough" to any witnesses? Or .. if there were three active shooters .. why not have 3 patsies so that there isn't an obvious mismatch, right? Because all it would take is some overlooked witness from a window somewhere with an iPhone to discredit the whole thing and raise uncomfortable questions. Why the chase at all? Why not a "suicide attack"?

Why not plant "smoking gun" evidence of a terrorist connection .. instead of this "How did they become radicalized" crap?

I'm not saying there is no cover up. But .. that kind of stuff just really seems weird .. considering the "puppet masters" should be a lot better at this stuff than you or me.

iPhone to discredit

uh, why does my upload not work suddenly?

But you get my point, right? An operation that has many people running through many blocks of public and residential area with cameras and helicopters etc etc just has so many "holes".

Ok .. the upload is blocked. But the guy thinks "I know what I saw .. it was 3 white guys .. I have a video!" and so he puts it on a USB and whatever. And now he has to be killed or something.

It just seems like if you and I were the puppet masters, there are about 10 different ways we could think of that would be easier to contain and generate fewer "loose ends".

I mean .. really. Why not 2 "real shooters" who actually look like terrorists? Why 3 white guys? Or .. if you are using 3 "real shooters" why not set up 3 patsies?

What about the people at the center who were actually shot at and survived? The witnesses to the shooting? They would have seen the 3 white shooters and now have to be silenced somehow, right?

Why have a plan that involves a long chase .. by this couple who ostensibly didn't actually shoot anybody .. right? Is there a chance of them not dying, or being captured alive, and talking? Any chance of something going wrong there? So many variables, right?

Or is the entire police force there in on this? Ok .. well now what about one of them talking?

There are so many other scenarios that would have been "more tidy".

For example .. get 3 guys with pistols on a intercity bus on an overnight .. pull the driver over .. kill everybody there .. drive away on the dark highway ... how long before people even realize that there has been a shooting? Release a "terrorist video" and hold the head of one of the victims as proof.

See? MUCH safer / foolproof. And I don't even do this for a living! That's what I mean. The whole thing is just weird.

Like in the 70ies with the brigades?

OK guys. I'm kinda new here. Open minded and just curious. I'm sure ill be hung for this... But why would someone or a government go through so much effort to cover something up or create such a big lie? I just dont understand, i guess, what they would benefit from creating such outlandish and exposable lies and alienating an entire planet in the process. All while trying to tie it back to middle eastern terrorists. Is it oil? Is it something else? How could so many be in on it without knowing or without spilling the beans more easily? If someone has the time or would even care to answer, i appreciate it. If not, that's ok too. And if you guys are right about all this and past events. ...holy shit.

Well to make it look like all Muslims are nutty terrorists of course. Looks like they have been ramping up efforts as of late.

What.... The government and media are doing everything possible to not call this an Islamic act of terror. The whole point of the president's speech last night was to carefully avoid offending non-extremist Muslims, or giving the opinion that all Muslims are to blame.

Yes the government has been ramping up efforts to make Muslims look bad.

You guys are a fuckijg joke.

Muslims are mass murdering people and you guys blame our government.

Maybe Muslims have a lot of bad apples, like cops. Couldn't that just be the case? Is the main stream media staging murder by cops so we will fear them? Didn't think so. Grow up guys, the government isn't faking all of this. If they did, they have invested a ton of money with zero return. No strict gun laws have been passed. Muslims make themselves look bad... The government isn't behind every bad thing that happens. I don't mind diving in and researching, but surely you know this isn't staged to makes us hate Muslims. You have fallen over the left edge

Nice to see you in r/conspiracy. Nice to see you here. It is us who speak of conspiracies. If you don't like what you hear then please leave. You do realize that calling us all fucking jokes in our /r/conspiracy sub is moronic at least. Don't visit here if you have a problem with alternative theories.

Fuck you. Ban me then. I'll call the stupid conspiracies stupid and will happily dive into conspiracies that may turn out to be true.

You guys need to actually want to truth, not your version of it

Edit. OP's post is a good post. Well thought out and cited. I applaud his effort in trying to find the truth. I don't applaud commenters who have unrealistic reasons for a mass murder... Islamophobia. Islam created enough as it, doesn't need our governments help. Good day

Islam may be what it is, the deep state is way more fucked up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Bronx_terrorism_plot http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/22/nyregion/22terror.html

The men did not know that the bombs, obtained with the help of an informant for the Federal Bureau of Investigation, were fake, and that the missile was incapable of being fired.

So to recapitulate, the FBI sells fake bombs and stinger missiles to known terrorists, instead of just locking them up?

This isn't by far the only one: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSU-Morde

Am 26. Januar 2012 setzte der Deutsche Bundestag einen Untersuchungsausschuss ein, der die rechtsextremen Verbrechen der Zwickauer Terrorzelle sowie das Versagen deutscher Sicherheitsbehörden und der beteiligten Landesbehörden für Verfassungsschutz bei der Aufklärung und Verhinderung der Verbrechen untersuchen sollte. Der Ausschuss wurde vom SPD-Abgeordneten Sebastian Edathy geleitet.

Then suddenly weird stuff happens. Then there is this whole section.

Come on. Either you read the news or you watch them. I suspect you only watch them.

Ya they sell fake bombs and these idiots buy them. Now we have grounds to lock them away for the rest of their near future

Your cute.

Thank you. I'm not sure how you found out, but it is true.

Muslims are mass murdering people

I reported your comment based on incitement to hatred.

Go fuck yourself. I've been banned from r/Islam and am proud. My post wasnt meant to be hateful, but to reflect reality.

This is all just blowback for us making a warzone out of the middle east for the last 15 years. Do you really think they want us there? They dont. They want us the fuck out and gone and until we leave, they are going to fight back. This is Veitnam 2.0. We dont even know why the fuck we are there anymore. It certainly isnt to liberate and bring freedom to these people, else we would be fighting human right abuses in Africa, China and North Korea. But they dont have Oil.

Americans need to get over themselves. We are not fighting terrorists, we are creating them. What would you do if Putin decided that Obama (assad/hussein) was a dictator given that half our country complain that he is one. Now what if Putin armed the South and placed troops on the ground to help "liberate america" from the oligrhacy with aims to restore democracy? This is exactly what we are doing to them. They DONT WANT OUR HELP. They want us gone.

Let them kill themselves over there. We let the african kill africans and the chinese kill chinese. Whats so different about islam? Let that continent deal with that continents problems.

The decision to make a Saudi "House of Kings" was done in the 30ies, not the last 15 years.

Agreed. We are only there to make sure oil keeps flowing and being sold in dollars. I wish we weren't there and I am no ignorant to their plight..

They need to do the fighting on their country to kick us out. When they use suicide bombers in other countries as their attack plan, I don't care much about taking their land and oil. We kill innocent people with drone strikes, but Islamists target innocent people. They are stone age fanatics. Let the moderates take back their country through political revolutions in their own country. No hiring crazy death cult terrorists

Wars and the defense contracts that go with them are worth trillions. So, a false flag action that inflames public opinion and turns around the votes of politicians who need to approve those wars can be extremely valuable. An ongoing climate of fear is necessary to continue to boost military spending at the expense of domestic programs that advance public welfare.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3srvg7/netanyahu_warns_of_grave_mistake_if_france/cwzwo4o

What? Rational thought? Logical questions? Psssh, oh silly you!

What I find most odd is that the news had a whitness on the phone who said she saw 3 shooters, all appearing to be white, all male, tall and athletic built with black hats and black gloves.

She (the whitness) didn't mention a woman at all.

Make that two witnesses

Courtesy of OP ^{^}

https://archive.is/YyW4l

Archived.

Haven't read, I'm going sleep.

But the other night, I saw the interview with one of the families in which the Mother was killed, they interviewed her Daughter and her Husband.

They were fucking emotionless, pure bullshit, I can't find the interview, maybe you have it.

Here is the source and here is a review.

The reaction from the gentleman behind the girl at the 50 second mark after she says "I Don't want you guys like grieving or like crying that's like when I'm taking in some place" speaks to me. The lips cringe followed by the heavy swallow. As if she went off script and was tanking the interview.

So either;

A. This girl and her family are emotion-less beings, or beings that weren't conditioned like normal people (very unlikely).

B. Paid actors. Hired/forced/paid/etc. to do this interview. (highly unlikely - risky).

C. Mom is not dead, in witness protection of some sort; interview was done as a protocol witness protection operation. Girl just sucks at acting (more likely imo).

Very weird, indeed.

I had a buddy of mines mom die suddenly last month and he was out with the boys the very next night drinking, laughing, having a good time. We didn't even know his mom had died until he told us he was going to her funeral. Really weirded us out.

Was his name Meursault and were you guys in 1940s France?

He did shoot some Arabs oversees (US ARMY)...

The Stranger is one of my favorite books!

People grieve in different ways. Just because this person didn't grieve the way you thought they would doesn't mean they're not grieving at all.

Yeah except this is a reoccurring trend in all these types of attacks. Remember the father of Lanza laughing and then quickly switching to crying as soon as the "cameras" turned on? It's a consistent trend.

Exactly my point, you'd assume everyone would be distraught and broken having lost a loved one, but not everyone is.

I had a buddy of mines mom die suddenly last month and he was out with the boys the very next night drinking, laughing, having a good time. We didn't even know his mom had died until he told us he was going to her funeral. Really weirded us out

Thank you for stopping by /r/conspiracy. We occasionally enjoy receiving comments from people about how different people grieve differently, especially if you are an infrequent visitor to this sub. We understand that these comments, along with comments reminding us that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, tend to increase after mass shooting events.

We hope you enjoy your stay here. Thank you for posting.

Reposted

Well aren't you the sweetest little thing! Thank you soo much!!!! I'm so glad you enjoyed my story!!!!! Aw people like you are so nice and kind !!!! Awwww I'm glad you guys like me :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :* :* :* :* ♡♡♡♡♡♡

Not the video, but that's more fucked than the one I saw.

But again, emotionless, it's not normal, she looks fucking happy for Christ sake.

I saw that one, too. The daughter didn't look, or speak, like someone whose mother had been murdered a few hours earlier. Maybe they took a handful of anti-depressants to cope?

EDIT: Here it is. On second viewing, they're not emotionless zombies on drugs; on the contrary they seem quite alert and animated. It certainly doesn't look like a suddenly grieving family to me.

I had a buddy of mines mom die suddenly last month and he was out with the boys the very next night drinking, laughing, having a good time. We didn't even know his mom had died until he told us he was going to her funeral. Really weirded us out.

Reposted

I had a buddy of mines mom die suddenly last month and he was out with the boys the very next night drinking, laughing, having a good time. We didn't even know his mom had died until he told us he was going to her funeral. Really weirded us out

Thank you for stopping by /r/conspiracy. We occasionally enjoy receiving comments from people about how different people grieve differently, especially if you are an infrequent visitor to this sub. We understand that these comments, along with comments reminding us that eyewitness testimony is notoriously unreliable, tend to increase after mass shooting events.

We hope you enjoy your stay here. Thank you for posting.

Well aren't you the sweetest little thing! Thank you soo much!!!! I'm so glad you enjoyed my story!!!!! Aw people like you are so nice and kind !!!! Awwww I'm glad you guys like me :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :* :* :* :* ♡♡♡♡♡♡

Reposted

That's called a wake, they were drunk as fuck. Somehow I doubt the girl was drunk.

So, what is the purpose of this false flag?

And NSA (supposedly) had restrictions placed on them and this is a great way to get the public back on board with NSA spying.

I did hear a clip of someone who made the claim that we should have had NSA programs running to catch this. (Fox News??)

Anyways, none of the NSA programs have been cancelled. The onky thing that changed is data storage - the phone companies have to store every character tyoed, every sound uttered through you cell phone for 7 years for NSA. The NSA programs to siphon off a direct copy of all communication to their datastores is still in place. Furthermore, given that these guys were not terror suspects to begin with (probably FBI assets in truth), they were never on a "watchlist", so NSA programs would have been meaningless.

Seems a little extreme for just this outcome? No money in this...

Lots of money to be made in the spying industrial complex... Plus it's more than money. It's about power. It's about limiting power of the citizenry.

And he very recently stated that the last year of his term will be focused on gun control laws.

This

FEAR..

keep people in fear.. fear the boogieman.. fear "terrorist" continuation of perpetual war

[deleted]

I feel like gun laws wouldn't fit here. California has strict laws, yet people still have guns, so it's a strange angle to push.

Obama talked about stricter gun control in his speech last night.

Yet oboma was talking about needing to make it harder for people to buy assualt riffles in his speech last night.

"We also need to make it harder for people to buy powerful assault weapons:

Anti Muslim/fear Muslims sentiment.

outstanding post. thank you than you.

If we NEVER see the videos of the perps coming through the front doors (showing 2 people - one a man and another obvious woman) I will always feel suspicious about this.

By the way, Waterman Street is still blocked off.

Absolutely. I also want to thank you for taking the time to painstakingly comb through all the information that was on that scanner. I live near the area and so many people are riled up about this...any bit of fact-seeking helps.

The street is blocked off at that point but there is a press area about 500 yards closer. Also you can park anywhere near where they were and walk up to the police line which is within probably 100yds of the building.

This is the closest you can currently get. http://i.imgur.com/dhyYxkbh.jpg

This was very well done. I commend you warrior of the light!

Another Hoax shooting. These staged events are so obvious it's laughable. How many times are they gonna have these exercises/drills go "live" and people are gonna keep falling for it.

please write a book about this.

He should, right after you write one about flat earth.

hm, are you being sarcastic? I might be mistaken but I thought I saw you hating on flat earth theory on another post.

Either way I'm working on something already on just that topic -- so Thanks :)

OP is stating what he heard from first responders and scanners. It is true that something else is at play here but most of the first responders calls and scanners are not facts and they are passed around not based on facts but based on what info they receive from an ongoing event which is very fluid and ever-changing and most of those scanners and calls cannot be inputted for final reports due to their lack of reliability and even government knows this.

OP did a great job putting back the pieces of the puzzle but it is not a complete and reliable picture even though he quoted those things from the "official" sources. But I'm not denying 100% of it but I'm not taking it as 100% truth either.

So has there ever been a legitimate terrorist attack according to you people?

Nope. Apparently every terrorist attack ever was perpetuated by the US Government or Santa Claus or something. I think that we're definitely left in the dark on a lot of shit, but for Christ sake, sometimes wackos just fucking kill people outside of ridiculous conspiracies.

Yea people do go off and kill people. However if you compare the news coverage of this event to the news coverage of other mass shootings that aren't used to push legislation or stronger military Involvement there is striking differences. There was a police training exercises nearby you have hundreds of LEO standing around doing nothing. If you're not a shill, actually take the time to listen to the police scanner from that day. If you listen to the police scanner it's downright impossible the events unfolded the way the media is portraying the

i think the planned parenthood shooting last week was the real deal.

Yeah, when our government started bombing the Middle East decades ago and hasn't stopped. I'd say that's pretty legit terrorism.

Is that the only one then? And how can you be sure that wasn't a false flag?

Sorry I forgot the /s tag. There are tons of shootings that have gone on that seem pretty legit and organic, except those stories are always a minor blip on the news. Hardly covered. Events like this are always covered for weeks and new legislation is passed in their wake. Like flies drawn to shit, watch which events cause the attraction of mainstream news and government reactions.

I can't imagine this was a "false flag". It doesn't fit their narrative - if gun control is their end game, they wouldn't pin it on Muslim terrorists.

After the Paris attacks, I think a Muslim attack in the US definitely fits the right's narrative.

Gun control , increased involvement in syria and regulation of the internet are the end game. Obama brought up all three in his speech yesterday

This is so much better than what the news or governments present to the public. Lets see...no government accountability for letting this event happen just like 9/11! Business as usual. We will just take more of your liberties away.

Thanks for doing the research OP. This deserves to be placed in the side bar thing for others to see. I suggest saving all of this information and distributing it as far and wide as possible.

Great work. Wait until you see the fake muslim kids some Hollyweird handler brought into the corporate media news "camps" to interview to add authenticity to this thing. The indian/muslim/paki guys don't even know where they are from... some of them look Indian... some say they are form the USA but the accent is soo thick this is obviously a lie. They are not even from the regions discussed about the shooter, and they are wearing head to toe ethnic token Muslin indigenous garments which looks absurd and hilarious. They were actually bringing these guys in an out of the TV camps to interview them in from of the "scene of the crime" days after it occurred. Totally preposterous.

So... I was watching the reddit live thread and the US live channels through the internet when it was happening. It was evident obvious even to me, at the other side of the world, that there were three shooters and they were looking for three "suspects". What's the official statement on that change of the number of shooters and suspects suddenly like that?

Good question. I was listening to the radio feed live. They were looking for a man in an orange shirt and camo pants. One officer radioed in and said he had a Hispanic male with camo pants and orange shirt. The guy was cooperative.

After an hour of listening, the same officer asked if he should take the man to the station or hold. (just stay tjere)

I turned it off and went about my night, but I am very interested in the 3rd shooter... Why isn't anyone talking about it? Did I miss something?

I heard that there was a tweet saying "the drill is starting" right before the shootings. Does anyone have a link to that?

Does this video help the OP or anyone else to form a clearer time line?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQt-VKiuBwM

[deleted]

Is that the suspect they thought might jump? An officer had asked for extra officers on the opposite side of the building incase he jumped.. What happened to that man?

Be prepared for the "How could you!? People died you dirty truther!" deflection posts.

Please seek sterilization.

Interesting one location is on Orange Road.

Only the Target in San Bernardino, the one right off of the 215, is next to an animal control center. The other locations you mapped are actually ads for Target selling animal control products, that's why they are in yellow and not red like the San Bernardino animal shelter.

ok, so please forgive my ignorance, and i am asking sincerely here because i want to know, i'm not trying to be facetious. are we saying here, that our government, or some type of authority figure, is staging these mass shootings across the country? and if so, to what end? to make us scared? to unite us against a perceived common enemy? to just randomly kill people? to create and reinforce a police state?

and if so, what can we do about it? because this shit has got to stop. i feel like i'm living in some kind of pseudo reality, where shit like this is becoming the norm. and i do believe that sandy hook, and the boston bombings and other recent events were staged, but i'm not really sure i understand why. i cannot wrap my head around it.

what, exactly, is the conspiracy?

The cia/fbi/abc agencies have been carrying out attacks against the general populous since WWII. They do so with the intent of influencing and shaping public opinion. The first reported and de-classified occurence of this was during operation Gladio. During operation gladio cia members working with extremist inside of itally carried out terrorist attacks against itally in order to scare the Italians of the spread of communism.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio

You are methodical, but still tinfoil hat crazy

Surely the best kind.

better than sane but unmethodical?

Holy shit a 4 year old shill account. Either that or this dude has nothing better to do with his time than attempt to discredit certain narratives.

It isn't possible to discredit fantasy. It's like discrediting Alice in Wonderland

Again is this really what you choose to do with your free time? Or do you honestly believe two radicalized Muslim extremist shot and killed 14 people. When the first two eye witnesses interviewed describe 3 white tall athletic men. Do you really think the fbi wouldn't secure the house of an alleged terrorist who just conducted a mass shooting and allow journalist to break in with litterally a screw driver. Do you really believe the FBI is so incompetent that they left the passports and drivers licenses along with an inventory list of all the munitions and explosives the couple had at their house laying out on the bed? What is your reasoning for the cctv and security camera footage not being released? Do you think the image of the two alleged shooters walking into the place is too much for the public to handle?

Lastly if you believe all conspiracies are fantasy and therefore un able to be discredited why have you spent so much of your last 4 years on this website attempting to do just that

Re: the house

Maybe they have safehouses everywhere and a special tactical team to fill it with paraphernalia fitting what happened. It would only take about a dozen persons to stuff things into a flat for a day, the purpose being hiding/securing the real place where all happened. Nobody would notice. Especially not dumb cameras and media types.

The group could be a special evidence handling group, e.g. or plain CIA.

Obviously this only works in big, anonymous cities.

what a sad, pathetic life you have.

The face of schizophrenia, take it in boys.

Listening to a police scanner makes you have a mental health issue?

Interesting post. I'll be interested to see how long the "San Bern was a false flag/hoax" narrative runs before the sub gets tired of it.

EDIT: sun -> sub

It's a 20 day old account, what do you expect.

Thanks! A lot of it isn't that new, so I'd already read most of it.

A shill? For what?!

I dunno if you're a shill or not. I just have no idea what you mean by "the sun."

But I find it hard to believe you read all that somewhere else before unless you hang out a ton on these pages and, if you do, why you would do that if your motive is to mock.

My bad. Fixed the typo.

EDIT: Whoa -5 for fixing a typo?!

[removed]

Excuse me?

calling an obvious shill a shill gets you banned here! careful. it's fascist rule 10.

I'd never call a fellow user a "shill". Juvenile name-calling is something I refuse to sink to.

of course you wouldn't

Right. That behavior needs to cease. It's part of the reason why this sub is laughed at by most.

How did you discover this sub?

A friend told me about Reddit. And since I like discussing conspiracies, I thought I'd check out this sub.

Well...welcome. There are many seasoned users here. I suggest taking the time to learn how this sub works and getting to know the users. This sub by far is one of the best on Reddit.

This sub by far is one of the best on Reddit.

What do you mean? Best at what?

Digging up the trolls and shills.

Oh. Are they the ones following me around, downvoting my comments and lobbing personal attacks at me? How do you deal with them?

say fuck karma. post what you want. have an open mind.

Your on your own to figure that out. I will tell you that if you are working for anyone to undermine this sub, you will be called out. Have fun!

Why would someone undermine this sub? Does it have authority or something?

Ok. Have fun.

Huh? Have fun what?

Hi subzeb8, People can be a little crass on here, many people don't like to explain themselves in full as there are some who come here specifically to troll.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1fam9n/in_case_you_have_forgotten_the_us_government_uses/

here is an old thread about how the Govt does these things.

Looks like they might have been the ones that downvoted all my comments. Seriously, I've got some pretty good comment sitting at -16 or more! Do they troll a lot here?

Its their job but it seems less there's less of them on the weekends.

google search shows subzeb just joined to deny conspiracies. no one legit does that.

Gotta try an educate, but ya, he comes off way troll-e in other threads too.

Thanks! A lot of it isn't that new, so I'd already read most of it.

It's a 20 day old account, what do you expect.

do you remember anything about a girl with an AR on a roof threatening to jump?

I know people who were directly impacted by that shooting. Are they actors too?

Hi subzeb8, People can be a little crass on here, many people don't like to explain themselves in full as there are some who come here specifically to troll.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1fam9n/in_case_you_have_forgotten_the_us_government_uses/

here is an old thread about how the Govt does these things.

I had a buddy of mines mom die suddenly last month and he was out with the boys the very next night drinking, laughing, having a good time. We didn't even know his mom had died until he told us he was going to her funeral. Really weirded us out.

Reposted

The apparent growing sophistication demonstrated by this post is one of the more chilling things. As far as the "Why?" I have no idea, and you make a good point. It's all about the narrative, and how they can use the events to further their agenda, whatever it may be.

They are definitely getting better at the choreography of it all.

3 tall white guys in what sounds like SWAT gear? Fuck.

And Breitbart is not a reliable source.

yeh because reading a few sentences from a stranger on the internet is going to both educate and convince /S

no redpill, no shortcuts, you want truth it takes careful application of time and intellect. re: sandyhook starting here is as good as anywhere

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9yMdynxBDVQ 70 fun packed minutes

spend another week or so on it and you will be nearly upto speed with the rest of us

Good question. I was listening to the radio feed live. They were looking for a man in an orange shirt and camo pants. One officer radioed in and said he had a Hispanic male with camo pants and orange shirt. The guy was cooperative.

After an hour of listening, the same officer asked if he should take the man to the station or hold. (just stay tjere)

I turned it off and went about my night, but I am very interested in the 3rd shooter... Why isn't anyone talking about it? Did I miss something?

It is the frontline.

Well it kinda is. Proverbially, and in real life.

They've just used the set off a bomb somewhere and kill a dozen people at Boston. If you keep doing the same thing people will catch on

It isn't possible to discredit fantasy. It's like discrediting Alice in Wonderland