Don't give a rip what the "origins" were. Don't know, don't care. Actually, I do know, but still, I don't care. The origins of some of the traditions surrounding Christmas celebration have absolutely nothing to do with why me and my family celebrate Christmas today.

And if some pagan residual symbolism makes its way into our celebration, so what? Any pagan origins are completely irrelevant to what and why we are actually celebrating in our hearts and minds.

Christmas, by its very name is a celebration of the birth of Christ. It just so happens that some of the traditions surrounding celebrations around this time of the year has been borrowed from a pagan source. So what?

FYI, I am a generally non-practicing RC. And even if I were deeply involved as a Christian, why do you think that Christians need to "justify" celebrating Christmas to anyone for any reason? And especially on an issue that is as completely irrelevant as the one you propose.

It makes my wife happy. She has been brain washed since she was a baby, and you know what? If all it takes for me to put up some lights and a fake tree in a living room for a couple of weeks for her to be happy, then whatever. I make fun of it and all, but I still do it for her. She also knows it's stupid, but it is what it is. It's like me and FIFA. I know, soccer is a Freemason game, I know FIFA is corrupt as fuck, I know a few other things about FIFA that pisses me the fuck off, but I've been brain-washed also. When World Cup comes around, I feel like my wife during Christmas.

Ding ding ding. Found the right answer.

Wow neat post, I was having this conversation just the other day.

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Lol no don't. It was quite apt question for this sub. You triggered the right nerve, bravo! And also, don't be sad, ppl are their own enemies, they attack themselves the most. :)

Christmas isn't a pagan holiday. There were pagan holidays around the same time as Christmas and some traditions were adopted by Christians.

But so what?

Christmas is still very much the same pagan holiday celebrating child birth that it always was but it was given a religious veneer by Christian clergy. Anyway, I agree with you on the "so what" part.

Christmas is still very much the same pagan holiday celebrating child birth that it always was

The pagan holiday wasn't about celebrating the birth of a child, it was about the change from days getting shorter to days getting longer.

It also wasn't given a "religious veneer" unless you consider paganism not a religion while Christianity is religious.

It's hard to see the point of this thread other than as an attack on Christians (and pagans, apparently.)

Certainly no one is forcing you to celebrate Christmas or Yule.

The pagan holiday wasn't about celebrating the birth of a child, it was about the change from days getting shorter to days getting longer.

The reason the vernal equinox was so important is because the harvest season had concluded, there was little work to be done, and people would huddle together and stay warm. This was the time when a whole lot procreating got done in Northern Europe.

The true esoteric meaning of Christmas is to celebrate child birth as others pejoratively say, it is a "fertility festival". The gifts bestowed upon people symbolize newborn children and children are rewarded with special attention. Even the tale of Santa Clause coming down a chimney (which symbolizes home and hearth) bearing new gifts is meant to evoke the process of procreation from the moment of conception to the moment where a child (or a "gift" ) emerges from the birth canal (or from the center of home and hearth in the fireplace). Of course gratuitous religious and mythological symbolism was overlaid on top of this process, but at its core it is a celebration of new life coming into the world.

Jim Goad provides a useful summary of the mythological and religious baggage overlaid on top of the celebration here:

http://takimag.com/article/santa_claus_still_white_jim_goad/print

It’s true that linguistic corruption eventually transformed “Saint Nikolaos” into “Santa Claus.” It’s also true that the real-life St. Nick was known for his gift-giving ways. But that’s where most of the similarities seem to end. Otherwise, the St. Nicholas legend veers off into other weird pathways such as how he liked to help sailors and how he saved three poor daughters from becoming hookers and the time where he resurrected three boys who’d been chopped to death by a butcher.

Other major elements of the Santa Claus legend seem to have been supplied by Northern European mythology that got subsumed into Christianity as it conquered the continent. Northern Germans and Scandinavians celebrated a holiday called Yule around the winter solstice. During Yule season, the white-bearded pagan god Odin would traverse the skies by night on his eight-legged horse. Children would place boots near the chimney filled with straw for Odin’s horse to eat. In the morning they’d awake to find the straw replaced with gifts and candy. It is thought that Odin’s eight-legged horse would later morph into eight tiny reindeer and the boots would become Christmas stockings.

The British, Dutch, and others would add several layers to the Santa myth, but what’s important is that beyond St. Nicholas’s Greek origins, everything else about the legend appears to have germinated and developed in Northern Europe. (Further modifications were made to the Santa Claus myth in America, but Thomas Nast and Clement Clarke Moore also had skin as pink as bubble gum.) Santa Claus is a primarily Northern European cultural icon and therefore about as white as it gets.

But the overall point is that Christmas and Yuletide celebrations are really one and the same holiday.

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Im simply curious how people justify it?

There's no need to "justify" it to you, because you haven't actually shown any reason why there's a problem with Christmas.

In fact, I know the Catholics have a very detailed "justification" for Christmas and a "system" about understanding pagan traditions.

If you were actually interested, you could easily look up what the Catholic church teaches about this, but I don't think you really care.

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Catholicism is not Christian at all... has never been. I was baptized as a catholic and my family was heavily into that hypocritical religion.

Take it to /r/Christianity.

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Hey man, I apologize for the hostility. I was raised rc and share th exact same views as you. The Vatican empire took a good thing and turned it on its head and voilà "Christians". Not all of them are " bad", just naively misled, and that's the real tragedy.

Are you American? Do you sing the National Anthem even though it's tune is that of an English drinking song?

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You aren't a Christian, so why do you care?

I mean, other than as a blatant attempt to attack Christians.

Christians don't owe you an explanation for their beliefs.

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I am 100% Christian. What made you think otherwise?

OK, take it to /r/Christianity.

It isn't a topic for /r/conspiracy.

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Its perfect for conspiracy.

No, it's completely off topic as there isn't any "conspiracy."

Wtf dude, you are being aggressive for no apparent reason.

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on a spiritual level there is a VERY large conspiracy going on.

A conspiracy is, by definition, something that people engage in. Thus, there is no such thing as a "spiritual conspiracy."

The thread is completely off-topic as it's just you criticizing other groups of Christians.

Christmas was and still is primarily a celebration of child birth. That is the true meaning of Christmas and the imagery of Santa Claus coming down the chimney bearing gifts is clearly meant to symbolize the process of child conception and birth with the gift being a newborn baby. The fact that SantaClaus was originally modeled on Odin and is presently modeled on Saint Nicolas is of trivial importance.

It's not that they don't care about their faith, they don't care about a bit of irrelevant residual pagan symbolism, and they also don't care what you think.

This discussion tells me way more about your character than it tells me about Christians and their faith.

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It doesn't go against their beliefs. There's yer problem.

That is your construct, and it is wrong. And that you would come up with that construct and then pontificate to us on the basis of this false construct shows us that you are purposely antagonistic towards what you perceive to be a failing in Christian beliefs. Instead of beating around the bush like this, how about you just spit it out and be done with it?

These supposedly pagan traditions are mere symbols with no more meaning than tradition and pretty and "festive" decorations who's origins are long forgotten. Nothing more. There is no deep thought in it. It is just what various cultures do based on their local traditions, irrespective of it's origins.

And the other failure of your logic is that there is no Christian authority that spells out that Christians should or have to use these pagan traditions and symbols in their celebrations. Each Christian community celebrates xmas according to their own cultures and cultural background and family history.

Christ's birth is the reason for Christmas, and people will celebrate that fact however they choose, without having to experience some kind of deep religious internal schism of thought and belief involving old pagan traditions. That is your construct. And it is wrong.

If Christmas was celebrated (The part about celebrating the birth of Jesus, not the commercial gift giving and such) on may 25th would you feel differently?

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So what is the difference if you celebrate Jesus's birth in December or may? Christianity borrows tons of stuff from pagan faiths, this includes the idea of church buildings and professional clergy. A lot of hymns were created from songs sung in bars and pubs and re-written with Christian lyrics. You are going to have to throw out a lot of traditions operating on your opinion of Christmas.

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Might as well include the Bible, the modern version you read was commissioned by the Pagan Roman Emperor Constantine.

Yep, Jesus actual teachings only span a couple pages.

Christmas is a holiday that anybody could celebrate.

xmas

TRIGGERED

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"A majority of Christians follow everything the Bible says without acknowledging the practical propaganda tool it was for controlling the Christian masses for the Roman Empire."

Well that escalated quickly.

Getting back to the topic at hand. The Bible says nothing about what symbology we have to use, beyond the obvious and entirely Christian symbology of Christ in the manger with Mary and Joseph, the 3 wise men, the crucifix, etc.

The rest of it all, the decorated xmas trees, chestnuts, eggnog, gift giving, Santa, Elves, etc. grew out of various cultural concepts, some taken from paganism, others from media or books or movies or old fairy tales and other stories.

BTW, I find your attitude exceedingly arrogant and "douchy".

Celebration is about the meaning behind it, not the origins. You could argue that many celebrate materialism for Christmas, but not true Christians.

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm

You aren't a Christian, so why do you care?

I mean, other than as a blatant attempt to attack Christians.

Christians don't owe you an explanation for their beliefs.

Christmas was and still is primarily a celebration of child birth. That is the true meaning of Christmas and the imagery of Santa Claus coming down the chimney bearing gifts is clearly meant to symbolize the process of child conception and birth with the gift being a newborn baby. The fact that SantaClaus was originally modeled on Odin and is presently modeled on Saint Nicolas is of trivial importance.

It's not that they don't care about their faith, they don't care about a bit of irrelevant residual pagan symbolism, and they also don't care what you think.

This discussion tells me way more about your character than it tells me about Christians and their faith.