The tech world is in shock after Hillary Clinton's call at this week's debate as to a "Manhattan project for the internet" to defeat encryption; fiery criticism can be heard from all corners of silicon valley and beyond.

2421  2015-12-21 by AssuredlyAThrowAway

In what was perhaps the most egregious policy gaff at Saturday evening's Democratic Presidential Debate, former Senator Hilary Clinton proclaimed the need for a large scale government operation to undermine encryption at all costs. The former senator then explained to a befuddled moderator, "I don't know enough about the technology, Martha, to be able to say what it is".

The response from across the tech world was instant and consisted of mockery-laden comments from the likes of Edward Snowden and Netscape founder Marc Andreessen. With Snowden pointing to the instant alienation of nearly all tech-savvy voters;

Aaaaaaaaand Hillary just terrified everyone with an internet connection.

Displaying a professed wanton ignorance surrounding the importance of privacy rights within the Democratic party, Hilary seemed to double down on her lack of understanding surrounding her voting base with the following perplexing statement;

I would hope that, given the extraordinary capacities that the tech community has and the legitimate needs and questions from law enforcement, that there could be a Manhattan-like project — something that would bring the government and the tech communities together to see they're not adversaries, they've got to be partners.

Ms. Clinton's stance is quite confusing in light of the fervent tone of the discussion surrounding attempts by government agencies to use "back door" technologies to undermine personal security on technological devices.

Perhaps a glaring testament to her age and unwillingness to understand the issues facing contemporary voters, Ms. Clinton was brazen enough to actually acknowledge her own ignorance with regards to the very policy proposal she had just put forth.

This is, perhaps, a fitting tribute to an American political sphere dominated by bought-and-paid-for news coverage; which presents vacuous controversy as the epitome of informed opinion while neglecting the core tenets of a legitimate political order as reflected in the opinions of the polity.

What can be said of a Republic wherein public officials not only do not consider themselves beholden to public opinion, but mock the very nature of democratic participation by encouraging policies directly contrary to the will of the constituency?

What can be said of a country that can do nothing in the face of monopolized television/newspaper interests, which shove candidates down the throat of an unwilling polity ad nasuem?

I am left to wonder how Americans can look themselves in the face in light of current developments without feeling a hopeless, fleeting, sense of uselessness in the face of large scale corporate-political machines. It's one thing to rue the loss of a vibrant democracy, it's another matter entirely when the reverberations of that decay come in the form of brazen public calls for "A Manhattan project for the internet" from the mouth of a self-professed ignorant charlatan.

If these words, proclaimed by Ms. Clinton from on high, do not spell the end of her legitimacy as a candidate in the modern world, then our Republic is dead; and we have killed it.

139 comments

I've learned that when people are thieves, they project that onto everyone else. They suspect everyone else has sticky fingers just like they do.

Hillary Clinton has suspicions about people who use encryption? What does that say about her? We can imagine all the shady shit she's done with her private servers.

Lots of death surrounds the Clintons. Whether the deaths are or are not the result of being linked to the business/politics of the Clintons I do not know. But I do know that most people do not have as many associates die of suicides, car wrecks, plane crashes, etc, as do the Clintons.

If she understood the technology, she would likely want to keep her records safely encrypted.

Well of course under these new plans someone like Hillary wouldn't have to worry about anything. These laws are created to apply to the "common people."

[deleted]

Because it's about broad strokes. They don't aim to stop individual "terrorists" (however they choose to define that word), in fact the occasional terrorism incident helps add fuel to their fire.

Rather, the big picture with mass surveillance is stopping any threat to the power structure before it can gain critical mass, thus entrenching those who are already at the top of the pyramid, making revolution far less likely.

The knowledge that they're being surveilled also causes self censorship among people, which helps keep society in line with no overt effort.

exactly and also a lot of encryption comes from mathematicians

I'm interested in this. Is there a source I can read up on this?

Search "Clinton body count." You'll find lots of information to take with a grain of salt, but it is notable how many people surrounding them (especially during Whitewater) wound up dead.

She has people for that. I want people for stuff =\

Very good points.

We can imagine all the shady shit she's done with her private servers.

Like with a cloth or something?

I've learned that when people are thieves, they project that onto everyone else. They suspect everyone else has sticky fingers just like they do.

What does that say about the regulars on /r/conspiracy? Because you guys suspect everyone has sticky fingers :P

The difference is people are here out of worry. Paranoia comes naturally with that, certainly. When all you can see is the negative, it's hard and furthers that depressive state that seems to accompany uncomfortable fact.

It's easy to be wrong when trapped in that state. I'll take occasionally being wrong while being highly skeptical instead of trying to maintain ignorant bliss. That whole cognitive dissonance thing, hiding from the unhappy truths of our world, that will eventually lead to our downfall. /r/collapse had a great discussion recently on the irish potato famine and how people chose to ignore the unhappy truths about it, the parallels with that where pretty indicative of those sticky fingers regulars here like to keep an eye out for.

Which were not encrypted by the way.

Seriously this. Jesus Christ people better start waking up to her shady shit and shady proposals that she doesn't even understand. What the fuck lol

I am left to wonder how Americans can look themselves in the face in light of current developments without feeling a hopeless, fleeting, sense of uselessness in the face of large scale corporate-political machines.

That's our secret, mate. We can't.

It's not fleeting, it's persistent, and flares up with every new article or news report.

Lmao I worry for America

The rest of the world will follow suit.

America is the 'canary in the mineshaft' for the rest of us in the world. And that canary isn't looking too well.....

Golobalism. Nwo

I appreciate it. Somebody has to, I'm out and about town today, running errands and every person is so wrapped up in Christmas that I'm not sure they would give a shit if they knew.

Right as the rain finally falling on California.

You can write.

Writes better than most "professional" articles I've read lately

Can't tell if that was a hamfisted allusion to Nietzsche, a complete coincidence, or an excellently executed allusion to Nietzsche at the end of the article.

Hillary is such a bullshitter. She tried to make it sound like she didn't want to break [removed: inscription] encryption, but then she said she wants there to be an "agreement" between security agencies and tech about what to do.

Does she think we're idiots? She obviously wants to just say fuck encryption, but knows she'll get flak for it.

she wants there to be an "agreement" between security agencies and tech about what to do.

Should home lock companies have an "agreement" with the police so they have master keys to our homes and can check in on us any time they want?

That's the most apt comparison I've heard yet. Well said!

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It's called a battering ram... Except there isn't a battering ram to break encryption and they're terrified that they don't have 100% control anymore.

well there is some truth in that if you're using High encryption is almost impossible to crack but even the NSA has backdoors in the hardware here's a video talking a little bit about it

But terrorists!!!\s

[deleted]

Isnt that what the TSA have?

"Oh, sure you can lock your suitcase but if we want to steal your valuables, we are cutting your lock off and taking your shit. And you can't do anything about it because we apparently stop terrorism."

Yes, she thinks we are idiots.

inscription...

Whoops lol

Oh well haha. We know what you meant.

From what I recall, Bernie said something similar but no one's talking about that.

The only one who was downright against that was O'Malley.

Really? I don't remember that.

I watched the debate, and I didn't hear it either. O'Malley didn't say anything significantly different than Hillary, and they didn't let Sanders answer that particular question (which is odd, since he does support a free and open internet and it would have been a differentiating factor between them, which I thought is what the debate is about)

That whole debate was just one big Clinton commercial

FUCK HILLARY

another donation to sanders.

Every time Hillary speaks an angel gets an opportunity for wings.

E-Commerce as we know it cannot function without encryption. This is just stupid politicians saying stupid stuff they know nothing about. If they really tried this it would be disastrous for the American tech industry. As well as others. No more company secrets, no more industry knowledge sharing...it would all be up for grabs by the highest bidders.

Very true, and another point is that if this powerful decryption service/machine is created (already is) then it's a security threat in itself: falls into the 'wrong' hands, used by bad apples etc.

Nothing is perfect, and /u/masterm 's comment is valid in this respect also.

Exactly. People fail to see that these agencies and security contractors already have access to tools that can decrypt almost anything with a certain degree of success. The point is that those clusters are used to decrypt important things, and Hillary and other idiots want there to just be no encryption for the general public. There's no actual security increase from this. People who want to encrypt and obfuscate things will use their own methods to do it anyway.

They'll try and license encryption and mandate that the government gets a key to snoop in to protect the people from the terrorists.

Without a license, you're a suspect.

what will keep me from using my own program to encrypt my files on my own? i don't think anyone is worried some of the very strong encryption methods will be broken. if they are, then we can solve np-complete problems. I'm not sure that's gonna happen anytime soon, but, if it did, it might be worth it.

obligatory disclaimer: not defending shillary. just saying, encryption that is available for free now can be used until some serious mathematics breakthroughs occur. and i feel confident hillary can do nothing about that. it's not like she can kill blowfish to get aes to talk.

Your average user and most companies would follow these rules because they're scared of being locked up or losing money.

But you're missing the most important part. This could usher in the war on computation.

E-Commerce as we know it cannot function without encryption. This is just stupid politicians saying stupid stuff they know nothing about.

You see a bug, our politicians see a feature. Big Business would like nothing more than to roll back the changes that being able to buy online has made in the way people purchase their goods.

You're kidding, right? Online sales are fucking HUGE and represent a turning point in the economy where we are on the better side of now. There's no going back unless something absolutely cataclysmic happens.

Online sales are fucking HUGE and represent a turning point in the economy where we are on the better side of now.

When major retailers are complaining about showrooming yes, I think they would be overjoyed to turnback the clock.

Remember these are the types of people who though that disposable DVDs were a good idea. They thought installing infectious rootkits on audio cds was a good idea. That making ebooks expire would be a feature.

Think about who we're talking about here. These are not tech saavy people and they don't care what they break so long as they can maintain control.

Not only that but imagine the nightmare for the medical industry. Hospitals love encryption to protect patient data as HIPPA requires.

Not just e-commerce but MOST commerce except hyperlocal small business. How does she think Wall Street operates or Fortune 500s operate? They're not trading bits of paper or faxing the earnings reports to the other office.

That remark gave me flashbacks to PNAC's call for a catalyzing event such as "a new Pearl Harbor" to justify entering the Middle East again.

sheesh I hope she was referring to the manhattan project that made the atomic bomb not the project her pnac pals did in manhattan circa 14 years ago . . .

Is this what PNAC is?

The Project for the New American Century (PNAC) was a neoconservative[1][2][3] think tank based in Washington, D.C. that focused on United States foreign policy. It was established as a non-profit educational organization in 1997, and founded by William Kristol and Robert Kagan.[4][5] The PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership".[6] The organization stated that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world," and sought to build support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity".[7]

I guess that is how they define themselves.

They made the call for a "new Pearl Harbor" in a report titled "Rebuilding America's Defences. Strategy, Forces, and Resources for a New Century", release roughly 1 year before 9/11. It states...

"Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor"

Source: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/pdf/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf
(the report itself)

It is the very first full paragraph on page 51. There is also some context from the paragraph before that, hence the quote starting with "Further".

Its time to open up government secrets! Stop with all this hiding behind National Security BS!

Well hold on, this could very well lead to stronger encryption. Cat and mouse is important in security, if we have a big cat we need a faster mouse

what happened was Hillary's handlers talked to her about this operation and how it is ongoing. Being the brain dead tool that she is she couldn't quite articulate the finer nuances of the technology. Also, she wasn't supposed to talk about this until after she became president. It's so hard to find good assets these days.

  1. "Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."—Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004

George Bush II

You're protecting Hillary!??

How does it feel being a total fucking tool?

They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.

Nice to see you AATA.

does anyone have a link to a really well written ELI5 explanation of this and the serious concerns it raises?

people that have absolutely zero technical knowledge really need to understand what is at stake here.

Encrypting your data means it transforms your data into apparent nonsense by using math. That math depends on randomness and putting a 'backdoor' into an encryption scheme fundamentally weakens it by significantly compromising the randomness. 'Bad guys' can detect this (well their computers using math) weakness and can easily compromise the robustness of encryption.

It is literally impossible for it to be any other way because of the math. Politicians and cops think that if they say otherwise, it will be, but any scheme they try to institute will eventually be figured out, especially any public project (that would be a huge target in non-sympathetic 'hacking' circles).

I hear people from her generation say stupid stuff about the Internet and technology in general all the time, and I live in San Francisco where people are supposedly tech savvy.

This just simply shows how out of touch Hillary is, and alienates her from anyone who understands technology.

What her lack of technology understanding tells me is she doesn't even understand what technology is capable of. She won't be able to use tech to solve problems because it's foreign to her, and that's a huge problem.

If she's elected she's only going to serve the rich Baby Boomer elite, because she's too out of touch to even understand Millennials or anyone under the age of 45. She's just old and saying things she doesn't understand.

Ugh. Hillary is the Trump of democrats, but even worse.

She can do no wrong because she has a vagina, at least in the eyes of her worshippers.

This is the exact opposite of what we need. We need a Manhattan project to develop unbreakable encryptions. There was a story this week about how vulnerable our electric grid is to hacking. This is a much bigger threat than a crazy lone wolf with a AR-15 could ever be.

If these words, proclaimed by Ms. Clinton from on high, do not spell the end of her legitimacy as a candidate in the modern world, then our Republic is dead; and we have killed it

Problem is , most people will never see / hear about this. debate on a crappy night, news people not reporting.. its horrid.

"We need to ban encryption," she said "But not for the FBI documents."

Very well put, I appreciate you taking the time to do this.

Are people really surprised about this insanity coming from a Clinton

Beautiful and succinct. Posts like this one keep me subscribed.

We have absolutely terrible candidates for next year's election. I'm not old enough to know if this is abnormal or not.

We can choose between a Bush, a Clinton, a socialist, or Trump.

I feel crazy to say that I support Trump. There's so much hate for supporters of any of them, and most people don't care enough to be alienated from social circles because of who they support. A more divided country with less political participation. Awesome.

Don't feel crazy. Make your own opinions, watch the history channel documentary about his life from a relatively non biased point of view. I've been doing this for a long time and, shockingly enough, I have to say I think he's for real. The man owns skyscrapers and a fleet of jets, he has everything he could ever want except a legacy.

http://www.history.com/shows/the-making-of-trump/videos

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

I appreciate that!

I like him as a businessman and a person. As far as the leader of our country? I'm not sure...

He's certainly better than the opposition.

Here watch a few minutes of this. He's really a great leader and a smart guy, he has an ivy league degree, raised a classy, non degenerate family. Name one thing that's really bad about him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rksd80-FCAw

well people have been warning the country that this is the "endgame" times by "the Establishment". For decades ever since Kennedy's assassination (he stood against them and paid for it), politicians on both sides have been quietly and slowly building up a dictatorship in the shadows. No 2 party system, just 1 party that has worked hard to keep the people at each other's throats so they don't focus on what's been really going on in DC.

Now with the current administration we've seen them come out of the shadows and blatantly attack the constitution and the freedoms of the people because they no longer fear any repercussions. We put another "establishment" puppet into office for the next term and we're fucked as a nation.

When all the controversy came out about her emails, the thing that bothered me the most was thinking about how all my private emails are accessible to the government when they want to read them. While on the flip side, her emails which are supposed to eventually be public, were kept on a private server and wiped when things got hairy.

And god forbid you should bring that up to your average informed liberal (informed bastardized into meaning having watched msnbc and read up on the democraticunderground).

its old news

Old news it may be, pertinence is not necessarily bound to age.

She, or technically her server, is still being investigated by the FBI.

There already is such a "Manhattan Project" to end encryption.

It is called Bitcoin.

You have millions of computers solving complex equations, and no one has any idea what those equations are for. The similarities to the actual Manhattan Project are striking; there were thousands of scientists and mathematicians who were just handed equations, solved them and passed them back up the chain with no clue they part of the development of the atom bomb.

When all of the bitcoins are mined, all encryption will basically be solved. Maybe people will devise new encryption methods, but existing systems will be totally compromised.

Someone is sure to respond to me here that no no no I'm crazy, Bitcoin equations are meaningless. That's what lots of people say. But none of those people have phds in mathematics and encryption, so they're just repeating the propaganda.

Even if Bitcoin isn't some massively distributed NSA encryption breaker, it is exactly what such a project would look like. It doesn't cost the government anything, the government can't really be held liable for its use, the incentive for private persons to use it is built right into itself. Yes, if I were to design a Manhattan Project for encryption, it would look exactly like bitcoin.

Adding that Hillary now calling for such a Manhattan Project works as a limited hangout disinfo. It makes us think that such a project isn't already underway.

I'm totally confused by what you're saying. Those pools are processing transactions and by doing so mining bitcoins. Not sure what you think they're doing but if it was really nothing no one would be doing it. It's working just as advertised and all transaction are recorded in something called the block chain. It's a completely honest system.

Even if Bitcoin isn't some massively distributed NSA encryption breaker

Well, okay here's the funny thing. What it has done is put an enormous bounty on breaking the encryption the network is using. Anyone able to do so could make themselves wildly wealthy, but so far no one's been able to do it :)

this is the kind of thinking we're here for. thank you for this brother I fucking love it; you made my day

false flag attack against select internet hubs?

None of this outrage matters if they don't fucking vote.

Lol@voting

Implying it's better to let these fucks into office without trying to stop them at all.

There is only one way to stop them.

You can be sure that such a project would already exist before it was anounced to the public.

Except, you know, when every major corporation in the U.S. Needs to implement those new 'encryption' standards.

SSL is already broken by the NSA.

A lot more than SSL.

They have backdoors on every new intel die, most encryption is useless regardless of which ones you are using because both ends are already compromised if you are using a machine made in the past few years and onwards.

Too funny because she knows absolutely nothing about "wiping a server" before handing it over to the DOJ or FBI.

Hillary got stumped

Defeating encryption would leave more vulnerabilities then ever before.

Well, it's official. She's a blathering idiot.

Annnnd Hillary has lost her campaign.

There are still going to be more people over 45 voting for her without understanding how terrible this answer is. They don't understand encryption, "Manhattan project" with the "brillant tech" is good enough for them.

I was actually talking to my mom whos turning 45 in a few days, and knows absolutely NOTHING about encryption, and she understood that it's nessacary to keep amazon orders and whatnot secure, so I'm hopefull the majority will see through this shit.

I hope this allows more people to feel the Burn 2016

Days after thousands of people reading, cross posting, and sharing content related to an encryption based INTERNET VOTING concept, hillary then goes on to request a "Manhattan-like project” to break encryption. You can't write this stuff. Check out some of the posts.

I am left to wonder how Americans can look themselves in the face in light of current developments without feeling a hopeless, fleeting, sense of uselessness in the face of large scale corporate-political machines.

The problem is it's too late to fix the republic but too early to just shoot the bastards without getting funny looks from our neighbors. Not to worry though sooner than later the lack of ability to effect peaceful revolution will inevitably result in violent revolution taking place. Just ask the French Aristocracy...

"I am left to wonder how Americans can look themselves in the face in light of current developments without feeling a hopeless, fleeting, sense of uselessness in the face of large scale corporate-political machines."

Easy , you learn to care ALOT less , I sure have. In the end , their going to do what they want , no matter what you OR the people want , it's just that simple , look at them sneaking shit in with NASA stuff. Their flat out evil , nothing CAN be done even if you want it to be done. People like to pretend we have this illusion of free choice/will , we don't , as Carlin said "THEY OWN YOU"

And liberals that champion free internet will vote for her anyways, I don't get it she's bulletproof and slippier than Teflon. I don't want to hear well she's not a Republican. There's no excuse to vote for this conniving woman with a trail of bodies and scandals in her wake.

So she's saying that we need a massive compartmentalized project to eliminate the private communications of individuals that the public will only find out about after it has completed its objective?

She's toast now

That's only if the information propagates. Watch the media ignore it.

Defeat encryption .. What the actual fuck..

brb encrypting all the drives that still need it

Defeat Privacy in 2016!

ad nauseam*

This is it. If Clinton or Trump take office I swear there will be an assassination or WWIII

Isn't she just trying to cover her ass for getting busted in the first place, but it totally just backfired on her?

"Welcome to 1984, are ya ready for the Third World War" - Dead Kennedys

She's got more than emails to worry about

This is great for Sanders.

the instant alienation of nearly all tech-savvy voters

so... like 1-5%

+1

This fucking bitch is poison

All of these proposals for internet "security" and decryption are from old-people like Clinton and Trump who have no idea how the internet actually works. Sick of the elderly commanding the young. Its our planet now, you've had your time, fuck off.

If people do not take an interest in their own future then yes. At the end of it all we have no one to blame but ourselves. The information is there, it is your civic duty to be informed. Most people are derelict in this duty.

I use encrypted internet messaging as i do not want people like her reading my personal messages

"Silicon valley", the Congress of the Internet and all things computer.

Why don't they just put us all under the jails and prisons so they could project us all the time?

They could cut off all contact with the big, bad, outside world and we'll all be safe as convicts in solitary.

Exactly like convicts in solidity.

Speaking of convicts, what ever happened to Hill's emails and private server problems? No arrests yet?

and all this started with "war on terror" ... what a money waste

BERNIE, now has the support of the metal workers if he can gain the support of the pba "police" it will be game over! no more drug war, actual equality... people getting along and shit.

Fucking scary.

It is exactly statements like this which make it so fundamentally obvious that the system is not representing us as a people. Is it the voting majority who want her to launch a "Manhattan Project" against internet encryption? Or is it her private campaign backers?

I think we all know.

you can vote for her . . . or one of the republicans who all also support NSA spying.

Um , rand?

not sure I believe him he sells out too much.

tho I would say he is best repub to vote for, but like Bernie, it's unlikely GOP let's him run.

He's beholden to the Kochs...

Or vote for Sanders, the only non-shill on the stage...

Ted Cruz...

Could you people at least do some research before knee-jerk downvoting? Didn't say I support the guy, jesus.

Hello reader,

We at "Assuredly A News Agency" strive to provide high quality content and we apologize for our failure to use a title acceptable to your tastes.

We hope our future content will serve to better represent your interests and syntactical precision.

Regards,

The editorial team of a non existent news agency

It's not a bad title. I read a few times and it made sense.

I thought I spelled "fiery" wrong the first few times I read it tbh. I linguistically-cheat by using semicolons to allow fragments to stand alone in titles as well, so I don't fault you for finding it odd to read.

Anyway, just messing around with these articles as it is; mostly mocking the tone of regular press outlets while driving an uncorrupt/non payola-fueled narrative.

There is only one way to stop them.

Don't feel crazy. Make your own opinions, watch the history channel documentary about his life from a relatively non biased point of view. I've been doing this for a long time and, shockingly enough, I have to say I think he's for real. The man owns skyscrapers and a fleet of jets, he has everything he could ever want except a legacy.

http://www.history.com/shows/the-making-of-trump/videos

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions