"Our main agenda is to have all guns banned. We must use whatever means possible. It doesn't matter if you have to distort the facts or even lie. Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed." Sara Brady Chairman, Handgun Control Inc, to Senator Howard Metzenbaum The National Educator, January 1994, Page 3.

They aim to see us unarmed. This is why we need militias, armed communities standing together both to defend themselves and their neighbors against government seizure of their weapons and to drive out undesirable elements from their neighborhoods. If you aren't willing to fight and die for your neighbor, why would you expect him to do the same for you?

but they've already turned neighbors against neighbors, most people have never even talked with their neighbors

That's sounds very much like a made up quote.

This quote is fabricated. Sarah Brady was a strident gun control advocate, but there's no primary source for this quote.

"If guns have been banned in your country, slavery has been perfected there." - M Passio

"We just have to be repetitive about this. It's not enough to have a catchy ad on a Monday and then only do it every Monday. We have to do this every day of the week and just really brainwash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way."

Eric Holder, 1995

I fuckin HATE that guy

Americans disarmed themselves long ago. The fact you hold a physical gun in hand is irrelevant, When you wake up everyday defeated and deflated. Trudge your way to your 9 to 5 job more than half your life. Extorted into handing over half your life's wages to the money masters. Drink your fluoride water and get your flu shots. Watch your super bowls and idol stars and drink your piss beer. Eat your diseased steak. Beef, it's what's for dinner! Eat your gmo corn and soy products. Go for a swim in your pesticide lakes and relax in a fuckyoushima sea. Don't forget to post a selfie on fecesbook. We are all so happy! Post stuff on the internet like reddit. We are united we are fighting the system. We won't let corruption win. We are living in the system. It's already happened.

Debbie Downer over here

Wop-wop

The fact that we still hold a gun is not irrelevant. It means everything.

Just saying when 4 armed cops come to your door and ask for your guns right then and there, how many of them can you take?

How many armed Americans do you think are willing to get into fire fights with police by themselves?

When the government knocks at your door asking for guns, they will be prepared and won't be asking nicely. You're better off making sure you're deep in the woods before it comes to that...

During Hurricane Katrina, neighborhoods that organized, setting up military style check-points and patrols, did not get invaded, disarmed, or herded off to experience the hell of the football stadium, presumably being moved to the end of the list, which, in that case, was never reached.

Here in the capitol city of British Columbia the new (well newest, it is a few years old now) arena, they constructed tunnels connecting the police station next door. I found this rather telling of the states desire for these facilities.

The CIA perfected the technique during the Chile and Argentina reigns of terror, and now it's de rigeur worldwide. The last place a civilian wants to end up after things go pear shaped.

I feel like that's a much different scenario.

One of the only opportune times for the government to ever try to immediately disarm Americans (without much protest as the majority of people will believe it is necessary) is when a major disaster occurs, be it a mega earthquake, supervolcano, some other "act of God," or just a widespread "terror attack." So, no, a mass disarmament won't likely be very different from what happened after Katrina.

Valid points. The only thing you lack knowing is the fact we were sold out in 2009. Obama singed in that un troops can take our weapons with deadly force. Meaning Chinese or Russian troops take our shit.

How many of them are trained? Sure you can shoot a deer, but most soldiers piss themselves in their first fire fight (that's sourced from a friend in the military). Even in a militia, how much time do you have to get equipped and trained to take on already equipped and trained units? This ain't the revolutionary war... They ain't dressing in red coats this time...

The militia are already armed and trained and have been doing so for years.

This is true, at least in Texas. I spent 2013 interviewing many of the militia commanders and many if not most outfits are better armed and armored than their local police special units.

Good thing most cops are incompetent nincompoops.

Well, they do eliminate those with the hugest scores on the intelligence tests from their ranks....

Just saying when 4 armed cops come to your door and ask for your guns right then and there, how many of them can you take?

All of them.

How many armed Americans do you think are willing to get into fire fights with police by themselves?

Enough of them.

Doubtful on both regards. Unless you're military/police trained already.

doubtful

I’m glad you believe this and won’t correct you. The more they feel like killing themselves, the better.

I mean, I'm not trying to say it's impossible. I just don't see someone who's a good shot single handedly taking down trained paramilitary personnel. It's improbable, but not impossible.

I highly doubt armed cops will be there to confiscate weapons. I picture it out like this :

1.Voluntarily turn them in, if you don't, you're a terrorist 2. Those labelled as terrorists will be subdued, killed or converted by a faux-military agency similar to Blackwater/Academi to keep the US Government at arms length of the wet work

Yes I agree, I doubt police will be the ones doing it, I pictured more of an SS-type officer... You know the gestapo and shit.

Sawed off shotgun would probably the best deterrent. Large scatter area.

Yes and if they're far enough away with an AR, you're done.

"Why don't we all just stand in open fields ,maximizing the line of sight"

Sounds strategic.

Meh. Maybe.

If you open fire you better make sure people are dying, otherwise you'll be the one dead. And they will out-equip you, so you better be ready!

Tactics are important.

The are of the utmost importance. But how many of your friends (excluding military/police) understand tactics, and understand their enemy? Most of my friends could care less.

Maybe you have the wrong friends?

This is totally misguided. If you think your personal weapon is somehow going to protect you from the tyranny of the Federal Government, you're sorely mistaken. You cannot and will not ever resist this government using violent force. You have a gun? They have the largest army in the world. Our power is not in our guns, it's in our ability to unite and hold our government accountable.

My point is that you don't have true unity around this issue. If you were to ask every person with a gun in America if they would give up their way of life and the safety and security of their family to go fight a war with the federal government in order to protect their right to own a firearm, you would likely find yourself more alone than you think. Australia is a perfect example - they had a gun culture much like ours and it was resulting in mass shootings, so the government decided to disarm everyone. There wasn't an armed revolt, there wasn't a Government occupation of the country - they just changed the law and "took people's guns away." The result was no more mass shootings and a drastic reduction in gun violence. This issue simply isn't worth destroying your whole life over - it's a public health issue, not a tyranny issue. We're way beyond that now.

Nice thought but completely incorrect. Occupation of the US would be a nightmare for the military because of all of the guns out there.

I'm not talking about an occupation. This won't happen that way. They will simply change the laws around gun ownership, and every citizen will choose to either own a gun illegally and be put in jail and have their life ruined, or give it up. If Australia is any indicator, most people will choose the latter and this big armed revolt against the government you're all envisioning will never need to happen. They don't need to occupy - they make the rules and decide who goes to jail and who lives the life of a free man. This great power you think this gun gives you is a total farce.

Now, you're understanding of American politics, the Constitution, and gun ownership is a farce. To "change the law" they'd have to amend the Constitution or invalidate it completely. The former will never happen and latter is treason.

Why is it that the gun grabbers feel qualified to speak on subjects they don't understand? You don't like guns, don't have one.

Uh, yeah, I don't consider myself a "gun grabber." I happen to own one, I'm just being realistic about this issue and pointing out that tough talk on the internet is easy when nothing is at stake. Just pointing out that we've amended the constitution many times and it's not some crazy thing that can't happen. Hell, Colorado just amended the State constitution to allow for recreational marijuana use. Point is, this big stand-off you have in your head where all of your gun-owning neighbors band together to fight off the lawless, tyrannical government just isn't going to happen. They will put you in a position where you're breaking the law and face jail time if you want to keep your gun. And unless you're completely crazy, you'll give it up just like the rest of us. I point this out because it's going to happen - not a question of "if" but when. You know how I know? Because we have an epidemic of gun violence in this country, an electorate that is becoming significantly more progressive, and every other 1st World nation on earth has outlawed firearms in some significant way, resulting in far less gun violence. The government won't decide this needs to happen - the people will. Public sentiment will continue to move toward disarmament, and then the politicians will get on board. The government already knows that your guns don't offer you any real power over them - they could care less if you have one or not - it's all about public opinion and that's changing rapidly. My hope is that you're realistic about it, rather than ginning up some misplaced rage over a false sense of what your gun actually entitles you to. It won't protect you from the government and it won't allow you to break the law. Deal with it.

Just pointing out that we've amended the constitution many times and it's not some crazy thing that can't happen.

Wrong. The Constitution has been amended very few times, particularly when compared to the attempts to do so. It could happen, if 2/3rds of Congress agree, 75% of the states ratify the amendment and monkeys fly out of my ass, which is as likely as the first two conditions. See, the public overwhelmingly supports gun rights despite what your teevee tells you.

Hell, Colorado just amended the State constitution to allow for recreational marijuana use.

Apples and oranges. Again, you've clearly demonstrated that you have no understanding greater than regurgitating what your teevee told you.

There have been 17 Amendments to the constitution since the Bill of Rights was ratified in 1789. So, that's 17 changes over a 226 year period, or on average we change the constitution once every 13 or so years. Last amendment (27th) was ratified in 1992, which was 23 years ago. I'd say we're due...

I wish you all the luck in the world. You're going to need it.

"You could never invade mainland America, there would be a rifle behind every blade of grass"

-one of the Japanese military officials in WWII

A lot has changed since WWII

That's right, a lot has changed since then... people have discovered how evil our government can be when left unchecked. See: Gulf of Tonkin, Japanese internment, support of Palestinian genocide, fast and furious, operation paper clip, Benghazi... The list is nigh inexhaustible.

You say that it was protest and unification that stopped Vietnam? I call bullshit. Short men in black pyjamas with AK-47s and a will to resist stopped Vietnam.

And if history has taught us anything, it only takes 3%. That's only about 1 in 25 current gun owners in America. I'd hazard to say there are more than that who would be willing to resist.

Edit: thought I should add operation Northwoods to that list... Just for shits and giggles.

I agree people are waking up to what the government is capable of, but have our guns done ANYTHING to keep them in check? All of the things you list in the first paragraph have been perpetrated by a corrupt government leading an extremely armed populous. Are they influenced at all by our guns? No. Do they say to themselves that they better be good or risk the wrath of the armed citizen militias? Nope. Their media propaganda does the job for them - it keeps us divided into 2 groups (in this case, gun control vs. 2nd amendment rights), fighting amongst ourselves instead of concentrating on the real villains. That's what I'm trying to get people in this sub to see - you're playing right into their hands by spewing this super-rigid pro-gun fantasy about what kind of power our pistols give us. Our guns don't buy us any kind of real freedom from the government, nor any real power to keep them honest. It's a red herring, and this "debate" we're all having with each other is creating a divided public, ensuring that our real power against the government is kept in check.

I agree with everything you said, but I disgree with the tone. This is the reality, and this is where we are right now. However, it isn't the best scenario. If we COULD fashion government into a benign, unarmed regime, we would. God only knows how much farther in technology and logistics then the people they are; they really have us by the balls. The truth is THEY are the cowards. They don't have the guts to just off us all at once.

convicted felons talk like this when they find out they can't have a gun no mo

I could disarm the US in three months. Offer a $50 bounty on everyone you snitch out for having "unlicensed" firearms. After a month of "snitch therapy", up it to $100 per person. After a week of that, $150, and so on. Once you have been snitched, you have 8 hours to give up your weapons, or hellfire missiles will vaporize your house. You will be amazed at how many people will sell you out for 50, and how fast resistance will melt when the amount doubles and triples. Facebook culture is snitch culture, and everyone wants to serve the State and get a shiny medal. If your house was raided and burned to the ground tonight, your neighbors would go to work tomorrow as if nothing happened at all. If there were Chinese troops in the streets, they would be looking for phrase books in Cantonese. Downvote all you want, these are facts.

Facts? Why because you say so? Once the government starts "vaporizing" peoples' houses for not turning their guns in is when they will have an armed uprising on their hands. The fact is they don't have enough hellfire missiles to put a dent in it.

You watched Red Dawn one too many times.

What an idiotic, NRA-sponsored argument! So all the other countries in which there is gun control, but in which the people are even more free and happier than in US are slaves?

Any person who thinks that the only way to start fighting tyranny is by being constantly armed is a coward and a bigger pussy than all the other billion of people that successfully got rid of their tyrants while starting from being unarmed. I never thought Americans are such a pussies.

Don't really care as much about guns as OP but I do like history. Can you name one revolution that took place peacefully and had a successful outcome for the people ?

I am not suggesting that the revolution would be peaceful. But like most other revolutions in history (ancient and very recent), the population can start unarmed and can acquire weapons, convert part of the military/police apparatus, adopt the appropriate approach to resistance, and ultimately defeat the tyranny.

My argument is that having small arms at the start of the next American revolution is not going to make a big difference. Maybe slightly fewer victims of the revolution and the faster start. But the revolutionaries would still have to figure out the right guerilla warfare, acquire more and heaver weapons, play the politics, focus on intelligence, do the PR to discourage or convert members of armed forces and to align the people, etc.

The small benefit of having the population armed with small arms at the start of the revolution is not sufficient to justify all the regular annual loss of life caused by armed population.

But taking guns away or making restrictions wouldn't help either. If you look at china and the uk stabbings and mass stabbings are almost if not as common as mass shootings I don't understand why no one ever calls out the uk and other countries that have stabbing problems, like America is the only country with a mental health problem disguised as a weapon problem.

Guns aren't the problem, Uneducated people are

So, let me get this straight. Your line of thinking is that we should give up our weapons to the government, and then if we have to fight the government, we should just figure out a way to get them to give them back to us? Most other "revolutions" you speak of were CIA operations with the US pumping arms in to destabilize. Who do you think is going to be pumping arms into the US?

Actually. Switzerland requires gun owners to take a course and have the least gun deaths in the world per capita. Honduras has MASSIVE gun control and guess what, most gun deaths in the world per capita. Gun ownership is a great deterrent to other crimes being committed, such as a government attempting to control a populus. If you think they are going to hand their's over, think again, they just want YOU to hand yours over. Shillord, left-wing, democratic "freedom" fighters have killed more people with guns in misguided acts, how many NRA members go around shooting people?

I partially agree with you.

Swiss model works because everybody goes through mandatory military service and does annual training. And while everybody has a weapon at home as part of their military service, the ammunition is controlled until they complete their military obligations. If US could implement something like that, it might work.

Honduras is not the best example. First, it doesn't have a MASSIVE gun control. Gun purchase and possession is still allowed in Honduras. Although they are slowly trying to restrict it. Second, nobody is able to implement gun control there now even if they would want to.

You are completely right about the "freedom" fighters. Although they don't have to be left-wing. Left or right wing armed militias most often led to dictatorship rather than freedom. Castro, Mugabe, Gadaffi, Franco, Mussolini, Pinochet, etc. all started as revolutionaries.

It's not about being NRA members or not. Even if there would be some, I would not use that to paint all NRA members with the same brush. Problem with NRA is that it represents interests of gun manufacturers more than interests of armed population and because of that lobbying it is still far too easy for anybody with malicious intent to obtain guns.

Absolutely! Projectiles are lame anyway... Too many movable parts!

http://www.coldsteel.com/Category/12_1/Spears.aspx

Protect America! Buy ninja weapons today and save your grandkids tomorrow!!!

the people are even more free and happier than in US

There is no country with more freedoms than the US, you fucking idiot.

Any person who thinks that the only way to start fighting tyranny is by being constantly armed is a coward and a bigger pussy

“HURR DURR IF YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO FIGHT YOU’RE A COWARD”

This is how mentally defective you actually are.

There is no country with more freedoms than the US

ahahahaha

Great argument. I’m sure people believe you now.

Enjoy your totalitarian bullshit, and remember: you’re a coward.

Have you looked through this subreddit? The US government is involved in every plot, every shooting, every war. They're spying on the phone, the internet, every layer of society. The police state is encroaching every day, nobody feels safe, and corporations own everyone.

Truly, the leader of the free world.

Have you looked through this subreddit?

Because it’s the sole indicator of the freedoms of the American people or something?

The US government

Oh, hey, look at that. Not the people. Not the rights of the people. Not the behaviors of the people. Just the government.

Truly, the leader of the free world.

This has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with what we’re discussing. Americans are more free, period. I’m not sorry this hurt your feelings so much that you decided to waste your time with things you didn’t understand.

If you discount the government, then how are you even determining what freedoms people have? People are free to do what they like in even the most oppressive regimes, it just might not end well for them.

If you discount the government, then how are you even determining what freedoms people have?

Because your claims have zero to do with people’s freedoms.

Allow me demonstrate your record breaking levels of fuckin idiocy and brainwashedness.

US is 19th in the Democracy Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)

US is 12th in the Index of Economic Freedom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index)

US is 14th in the Economic Freedom of the World index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_Freedom_of_the_World)

It is 49th in World Press Freedom index. After countries such as Namibia, Burkina Faso, Niger, etc. (https://index.rsf.org)

It is 14th in the Corruption Perception Index from Transparency International (http://www.transparency.org/cpi2014/infographic/global)

8th in Human Development Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index)

In the Human Rights Index US is Medium Risk behind most of Western Europe, Canada and ANZ and together with Namibia, Botswana, Mongolia, Benin, Eastern Europe, etc. (http://reliefweb.int/sites/reliefweb.int/files/resources/2014_Human_Rights_Risk_Index_Map.pdf)

16th in the World Happiness Index (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report)

You want me to go on or you are willing to accept that you are indeed a fucking idiot?

r/rekt

democracy

We’re not a democracy, and that doesn’t have anything to do with freedom.

Economic Freedom

Globalist “free trade” is slavery to international corporations. So yes, we’re more free.

World Press Freedom

Except, you know, we can say and support literally anything we want where even in the “higher” ranked countries you are imprisoned.

corruption

Having nothing to do with freedom.

HDI

Having nothing to do with freedom.

You want me to go on or you are willing to accept that you are indeed a fucking idiot?

Yes, you ARE a fucking idiot! Thanks for admitting it. The US was founded on natural law. No other country, anywhere, at any time, has done this.

Our rights are innate. Your surveys are completely meaningless, because our conditions are better in operation AND in principle.

Oh so none of these are relevant to US. Because US is so special.

Ok Mr. fucking-idiocy-record-holder, show me one relevant index / research that proves your point. Or are we supposed to take your word for it because you are the ultimate arbitrator of the level of freedom in the world?

show me one relevant index / research that proves your point.

Okay.

your word for it

I’ve already explained where we derive our freedoms. If you’re too stupid (since you’re a shill, paid or otherwise, I think the ‘if’ is unnecessary) to see what I have written, it’s your fault.

You just posted shitposts over all my recent comments in my history. Are you so butthurt that I embarrassed you above? You are a very sad little person that doesn't know how to meaningfully argue and just posts insults and nonsense.

Reported for admitting to trolling. Reported for not having a response to anything that I have said.

The US has more prisoners per capita than any country on the planet and more prisoners total than any country on the planet. It is literally the least free country on earth by those metrics. Then add to that NSA spying on everything we do, taxes steadily increasing to fund illegal wars overseas, and a rigidly controlled corporate/media complex, and it starts to look at bit... less free.

None of that has anything to do with the personal freedoms of the individual.

By that logic every human being on earth is free because everyone is free to do whatever they want regardless of the law/consequences of those actions. The reality however is a lot different. If you think you're so individually free, stop paying taxes. Or try to collect rainwater on your back porch. Or smoke weed in public.

Edit: Love how I'm downvoted for this without any rebuttal. Speaks to your lack of a coherent argument. Tell me more about how being arrested for idiotic petty crimes "has nothing to do with the personal freedoms of the individual". I'll wait.

Oh so none of these are relevant to US. Because US is so special.

Ok Mr. fucking-idiocy-record-holder, show me one relevant index / research that proves your point. Or are we supposed to take your word for it because you are the ultimate arbitrator of the level of freedom in the world?

By that logic every human being on earth is free because everyone is free to do whatever they want regardless of the law/consequences of those actions. The reality however is a lot different. If you think you're so individually free, stop paying taxes. Or try to collect rainwater on your back porch. Or smoke weed in public.

Edit: Love how I'm downvoted for this without any rebuttal. Speaks to your lack of a coherent argument. Tell me more about how being arrested for idiotic petty crimes "has nothing to do with the personal freedoms of the individual". I'll wait.

Facts? Why because you say so? Once the government starts "vaporizing" peoples' houses for not turning their guns in is when they will have an armed uprising on their hands. The fact is they don't have enough hellfire missiles to put a dent in it.

One of the only opportune times for the government to ever try to immediately disarm Americans (without much protest as the majority of people will believe it is necessary) is when a major disaster occurs, be it a mega earthquake, supervolcano, some other "act of God," or just a widespread "terror attack." So, no, a mass disarmament won't likely be very different from what happened after Katrina.

I'm not talking about an occupation. This won't happen that way. They will simply change the laws around gun ownership, and every citizen will choose to either own a gun illegally and be put in jail and have their life ruined, or give it up. If Australia is any indicator, most people will choose the latter and this big armed revolt against the government you're all envisioning will never need to happen. They don't need to occupy - they make the rules and decide who goes to jail and who lives the life of a free man. This great power you think this gun gives you is a total farce.