I wonder how well a declaration / fee schedule would work in this regard. If they attempt to force your child to get a vaccination, just submit a fee schedule for violation of rights, damage and loss of the child payable in advance of the vaccination. Make it a large enough sum that they wont go though with it and if they dont want to be held liable and submit it to any agent that attempts to force this on you. Statute Law being contract law. IF they are going to pass laws like this then do whatever it takes to hold the people involved accountable.
“I think it’s a great day for California’s children. You’re living in a state that just got a little safer,” said Dr. Paul Offit, chief of the division of infectious diseases at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and an advocate of immunization.
So, who the hell is Dr. Paul Offit?
Offit, AKA "Offit for Profit" is a "vaccine advocate" an admitted paid shill for the vaccine industry who shamelessly and soullessly pimps vaccines in exchange for filthy lucre.
They're some of the most trusted voices in the defense of vaccine safety: the American Academy of Pediatrics, Every Child By Two, and pediatrician Dr. Paul Offit.
But CBS News has found these three have something more in common - strong financial ties to the industry whose products they promote and defend.
The vaccine industry gives millions to the Academy of Pediatrics for conferences, grants, medical education classes and even helped build their headquarters. The totals are kept secret, but public documents reveal bits and pieces.
** A $342,000 payment from Wyeth**, maker of the pneumococcal vaccine - which makes $2 billion a year in sales.
A $433,000 contribution from Merck, the same year the academy endorsed Merck's HPV vaccine - which made $1.5 billion a year in sales.
Another top donor: Sanofi Aventis, maker of 17 vaccines and a new five-in-one combo shot just added to the childhood vaccine schedule last month.
Every Child By Two, a group that promotes early immunization for all children, admits the group takes money from the vaccine industry, too - but wouldn't tell us how much.
A spokesman told CBS News: "There are simply no conflicts to be unearthed." But guess who's listed as the group's treasurers? Officials from Wyeth and a paid advisor to big pharmaceutical clients.
Then there's Paul Offit, perhaps the most widely-quoted defender of vaccine safety.
He's gone so far as to say babies can tolerate "10,000 vaccines at once."
This is how Offit described himself in a previous interview: "I'm the chief of infectious disease at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and a professor of pediatrics at Penn's medical school," he said.
Offit was not willing to be interviewed on this subject but like others in this CBS News investigation, he has strong industry ties. In fact, he's a vaccine industry insider.
Offit holds in a $1.5 million dollar research chair at Children's Hospital, funded by Merck. He holds the patent on an anti-diarrhea vaccine he developed with Merck, Rotateq, which has prevented thousands of hospitalizations.
And future royalties for the vaccine were just sold for $182 million cash. Dr. Offit's share of vaccine profits? Unknown.
[??? > $$$ / PROFIT!!! :-) ]
There's nothing illegal about the financial relationships, but to critics, they pose a serious risk for conflicts of interest. As one member of Congress put it, money from the pharmaceutical industry can shape the practices of those who hold themselves out to be "independent."
The American Academy of Pediatrics, Every Child By Two and Dr. Offit would not agree to interviews, but all told us they're up front about the money they receive, and it doesn't sway their opinions.
Today's immunization schedule now calls for kids to get 55 doses of vaccines by age 6.
Ideally, it makes for a healthier society. But critics worry that industry ties could impact the advice given to the public about all those vaccines.
Gee, YA THINK???
Modifying Offit's comment from above:
“I think it’s a great day for California’s childrenTHE VACCINE INDUSTRY. You’re living in a state that just got a little safer BECAME A LOT MORE PROFITABLE.”
Offit: "He's gone so far as to say babies can tolerate "10,000 vaccines at once"
Well, if that be the case, a BIG, STRONG GROWNUP MAN like Dr. Offit should be able to take a MILLION vaccines at once.
PAGING DR. OFFIT - DR. PAUL OFFIT TO THE WHITE COURTESY PHONE. PLEASE!!!
Help wanted: 1,000,000 volunteers with 1,000,000 needles and 1,000,000 doses of vaccine (your choice - BYOV). It's for the good of humanity! Honest~!
What's worse than what you just posted here is that most people won't do the research or have the critical thinking capacity that you've demonstrated, so they will just end up taking in the good Dr. Profit's advice at face value - as "the only right answer!" - and will parade it around to everyone, perpetuating an unhealthy lie that does more harm than good to everyone.
How else will they spread their mind control heavy metal toxins? The world is waking up to this nonsense and California is trying to squash our revolution.
soon as they federally mandate flu shots and get rid of guns, its ex-patriot time cause no one wants to fight back as long as fast food, beer, and tv. might as well colonize some still free country before we can go to mars and start over again, and then fight from there
This is what I think will happen. Somewhere in the world, like the phoenix will be reborn from the ashes. Another beacon of freedom, but reformatted (improved) from what we've learned. I personally think the US is Rome and it's definitely at the top of the hill (burning) teetering, about to fall. The end days of Rome/Weimar Republic are uncanny to the US.
yeah, ive said this in a thread in other post on this sub and was labeled a traitor. The thing is, no one's fighting and it would be smart to go colonize somewhere to create a form of insurance against the coming A.) implosion of this country or B.) Absolute Orwellian system with all freedoms replaced with P.C. watch everything, record everything while eating frakenfoods, getting pimped full of mandatory shots, while at re-education camps
yeah, ive said this in a thread in other post on this sub and was labeled a traitor.
Fuck those people. The founding fathers were British "traitors". Just like in their time, they knew they needed to establish a new country with freedom. I think this will ultimately happen. People will ex-pat and establish a new country based on founding principles. I see nothing wrong with that. Or, there could be a 2nd revolution in the US. Really not sure how that would all go down. Tis' interesting times we live in.
it should be 2 ways to insure success. 1 group, majority, stays to fight all the evil corrupt revolving door horse shit, the other groups ex-pat to some still free country like Greenland or Madagascar and colonize on founding principles while establishing trade and bureaucratic support from various global countries for sake of "protection"
Much as I agree with not standing by as one's country goes to shit, going to another area is bad if that "colonization" involves killing and/or enslaving the people that might already be there before you. This has been the m.o. of past "colonizers", and it really sucked for those that were in the land beforehand.
Seems it'd be better to stay and fight to make things right. The world's pretty crowded at this point and there aren't too many other places to go that don't already have their own population already there.
what about the indians they but chered to take land that rightfully belonged to the natives? i have seen u write long well-developed comments, so i know u care about exposing the lies, but this blatant lack of humanity in self-proclaimed champions for truth boggles the mind.
What's wrong with the new gun laws? They aren't that big of deal and don't really affect gun owners whatsoever. High schools don't allow guns why should colleges be any different? It's not a big deal, I don't know why people are pretending it is..
It's also made harder if someone wanted to create a petition to get this possibly changed, the fee to file a petition increased from $200 to $2000 this year also.
Yeah its also how polio and countless viruses stay out of the population. Can you dumb fucks on this sub make up your mind? Are they depopulating us or are they keeping us alive with vaccines? Make up your mind.
You know what? Fruits and vegetables are good for me. But that doesn't mean I want a government agent deciding what I eat with every meal. Same thing with vaccines. Good for me. Good for my kids. But not up to the government to force them into my body.
Try to understand it is possible to believe in and trust vaccines without believing in and trusting our government.
What you're saying is you don't trust the government to enforce vaccines on you that you would other wise trust. That means you simply don't want to do what they tell you which is pretty childish.
Actually, it's pretty adult to want to govern one's own life and choices. I might trust the vaccines. I might want to wait a few years and see how they work out. I might decline entirely, as is my right.
Would you want me, specifically me, to decide what gets injected into your body and what does not? Because that's the random equivalent of allowing our government to make these decisions.
If you think forced vaccination against certain diseases is bad or wrong or the illuminati poisoning you you're an idiot. Why should half a hospital be shut down and quarantined cause some dumbass or his parents decided against a TB vaccine, forcing all these other people to find treatment elsewhere or wait for treatment due to the risks of being in the same hospital as this person
If you can show me that each individual vaccination is 100% safe for each person than I'm happy to listen. I don't think you will be able to find it and that is the problem.
The problem is that vaccinations are not 100% safe. There are generally two groups of people. The ones that are happy to sacrifice those people in the good of the whole "collateral damage" and those that want a choice for their future.
Tell me are you the type that is happy to sacrifice other people for the whole?
Or are you about personal choice and freedom for self determination?
That the logic of refusing vaccines because they aren't 100% safe isn't actually logical.
If we decided we should do things that were only 100% safe we wouldn't really do much of anything at all. It doesn't do anyone good to support the fear mongering tactics of anti vaxxers. I agree that some pro vaxxers do the same thing, but there is imperical evidence proving that vaccines have led to the near eradication of several diseases, many of which have now become prevalent again due to people refusing them, and this all started because someone published a false study, and has since lost his license to practice medicine.
It's not logical to refuse something that you believe may hurt you? I think if I set myself on fire I will get hurt isn't logical and smart?
There is fear mongering on both sides. Some are valid some are not, but if we're going to have this conversation, lets talk about what isn't talked about. The people that are a live but now disabled long term after getting a vaccination. Showing this side of the impact isn't fear mongering its showing the possible risks. I think this is reasonable and responsible to do. I have asked these questions but no one will answer it.
Would you take a vaccine that you knew would disable you for life? For the betterment of the whole?
Would you accept the loss of people, death or disable for the potential of saving a few thousand people a year?
At what number would the saving of life vs the death/disable people caused by vaccines would need to be met before you say its not worth it?
I understand that some vaccines can help with the health of the population. I understand that disease comes and goes over time not due to vaccines but general sanitation of the population.
Just remember that throughout history, the earth was the center of the universe, it was also flat and there had been witches and some of these people that questioned the narrative died over it. Now we think that is silly.
I still haven't been shown vaccinations to be safe and we don't really have long term studies on I would assume most vaccinations in use today. Like the politicians who pass bills to find out whats in them later on is exactly the same mentality here. We just don't have good information to make a sound decision. We have some information, which I assume is mostly accurate. But some people are fine to risk other people to test the vaccinations. We're likely causing some damage to the children and their children which we may yet to understand.
But we can agree that vaccinations are not safe and that there are people who're happy to kill/disable for the betterment of the whole or at least for those that can't get vaccinations. It's ironic that these people in my conversations have never admitted to supporting collateral damage when other people are involved.
As of now there are 0 deaths from measles in 12 years in the US
As of now there are about 500 deaths from TB on average with 9000 or so cases reported each year, more than 1/2 being from foreign-born people and I suspect the others are in poor health anyway due to age and lifestyle choices.
We can cry that 500 is to many, I think there are much bigger problems to deal with that are killing a lot more people each year.
I'm laying out the facts that I saw on the CDC. I don't know if these people had been vaccinated and frankly I don't really care if they had or not. My point is, these numbers are low and while these numbers are low IMO while we have voluntary vaccination tells me we have other problems to focus on.
I'm unsure why we're continuing..
What about whooping cough? 30 die since the vaccination was released, before it was 9000. I didn't check if this is USA data but I will assume it is.
The fire statement has no relation to vaccines. That statement went went over your head, so reread it again or move on because it doesn't' matter.
I'm not saying vaccinations are all bad by the way. I'm saying that they should be a choice because not everyone that takes them will respond well.
Of course they're fine with sacrificing others for the greater good. The real question is, are they willing to sacrifice themselves and their loved ones for the greater good?
While I try not to underestimate the blindness of 'herd mentality,' the rabidly pro-vaccine group always surprises me.
I never said that 100% of vaccinations are safe for each and every person. If you can find where I said that, I'd be happy to listen. I don't think you'll be able to find it and that is the problem.
Do you think the life of one person is more important than the 100,000 they might infect with a disease?
I'm not saying you said its 100% safe I'm asking for proof that they're. I'm asking for any person that support forced vaccinations to provide me a solid study or proof that shows each vaccination is safe for everyone its going to be forced upon. This is never brought up in conversation because it doesn't exist. There will always be people who will suffer in various ways but this is hardly ever brought up.
You're calling me an idiot because I don't agree with forced vaccinations. I don't agree because I don't believe they're safe as in all vaccinations, I haven't seen that they're safe. I have studied history about governments not being honest with the people of the world and today is no different.
I asked you a direct question, it was specific because its forcing you to give me an answer that publicly shows your true character. Even if you're ok with killing or disabling that one person are you willing to do it yourself? I don't think most people would, I doubt you would do the injection.
I think everyones life is important, but it's more important to me that each person has the ability to self determine their own life. So I would allow nature to take its course and many will suffer, some will die. But at least they had the choice.
I wasn't going to get involved with this thread but I just had to step in on this one...
The problem is that vaccinations are not 100% safe
You know what mate. You're right. Vaccines are not 100% safe. You know what is even less safe? Dying of fucking measles or TB or some other long-forgotten disease because you didn't want to risk feeling a bit under the weather for a couple of days
Jeez. And that's not even getting into the narcissism of risking the lives of so many people who can't get these vaccinations just because you're too chicken to get the jab.
The evidence that vaccinations are actually effective at combating diseases is circumstantial. Why must we rely on the big pharma to resolve these issues. There interest is profit driven, not people driven. hence, its in their interest to keep people sick without knowing they are sick.
Its an interesting control mechanism. Use propaganda to scare everyone into thinking they are going to get infected, then force a cocktail of chemicals onto every person that you made, people get sick and dont know why, then sell them more drugs to treat symptoms of that the vaccines caused, profit?
Problem, Reaction, Solution. I'm sorry, but I dont trust the medical industry especially since they are being manipulated by the pharmaceutical industry. I will stay out of hospitals myself.
You're right about that. Vaccines shouldn't be a product being pushed if their purpose is to help people. Unfortunately the people in charge of these things care more about money.
If you believe there purpose is to help people that probably a bit naive. If we want treatments that are going to help people, then we need institutions that are accountable to people. As it stands right now, we have corporations that are only accountable only to shareholders. Which means being accountable to profit. Im sure they will do whatever it takes, even making people sick to keep that profit engine rolling. Believe it.
I wouldn't disagree with this. We should support projects and people that work toward sustainability independent of the system. Today I participated in the planting of an edible garden in a local neighborhood. Being able to plant and eat your own food is something that helps you not have to buy their products.
Certainly not easy though. Again, I wouldn't disagree with what you said.
I'm ok with vaccines, my child is immunized by my choice, but taking away a parents right to choose what they think is best for their child is crossing a very dangerous line.
They just proved that the child belongs to the state. And that the state owns their bodies. What's next? Forced lithium to keep the mass Shootings from happening?
I'm ok with vaccines, my child is immunized by my choice, but taking away a parents right to choose what they think is best for their child is crossing a very dangerous line.
This seems like a well-balanced perspective.
What's next? Forced lithium to keep the mass Shootings from happening?
Well, the public water supplies have been fluoridated for quite some time now, and fluoride has been shown to retard many needed bodily and brain functions, so there's that... :/
While the LA Times thinks this development is a good thing, you can bet this newspaper will not investigate the fact that many vaccinated people got the measles during the Disney outbreak. Neither will the LA Times do a story on the adverse effects of vaccinations. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-0202-vaccination-rates-20160201-story.html
The most affluent and well-informed parents in California are against this vaccination law. Many will leave the state or homeschool their children. California will be worse off when the best and the brightest are not in their schools.
Tactic 1: Its already happening just submit
Tactic 2: its for health reason that we feel we know better than everyone else how health should be handled.
Both are lies and in disguise.
Nobody has a right to force individuals to submit to systems of control that have no business telling others what to do since they are the ones causing all the diseases in the first place.
Provide one shred of evidence that vaccines mind control people or whatever the fuck it is you idiots on here think they do. Oh thats right. You can't. You're just trying to spread your own propaganda which is just the thing you people accuse the guvment of doing. Are any of you idiots doctors? Are any of you dumbasses on this sub above the intelligence of say a paranoid 14 year old?
First of all, the CDC does know better than almost everyone else on how health should be handled. You think Hepatitis and the Measles are a joke? You think infants and elderly dying from the flu is a joke? How selfish can you be thinking that this only affects the one being immunized and not everyone around them..
Dude if you think government operations are in the business of helping people then I dont know what else to tell you. Its clear as day that institution after institution has been corrupted to the core. I have absolution zero reason to trust any government program at this point.
And if you were smart, you would think twice about how much you think you know about the government. When the government is back in our hands then talk to me about who knows what, other that you are wasting your breath.
Do you have any idea of how vast the leadership of the CDC is? You do realize that the CDC is controlled predominately by MD's and scientists who have extensive education in their field and know what they are doing? Do you really believe that all of these people are conspiring against you or that the curtain has been pulled over all of their eyes to deceive you? Be reasonable and look at things from a more realistic point of view.
Still run by humans who still make mistakes. Only now, those mistakes will be amplified across the entire population instead of just the random volunteers.
Don't know why this got so downvoted. I understand the cynicism in it. Though I don't have any kids (thank God!) I live in CA, so I understand how lame and draconian this b.s. regulation is.
/r/conspiracy has been overrun by shills, as well as the merely ignorant. Seems like most of my comments get downvoted anymore. My karma of nearly 10,000 is mainly from years ago.
soon as they federally mandate flu shots and get rid of guns, its ex-patriot time cause no one wants to fight back as long as fast food, beer, and tv. might as well colonize some still free country before we can go to mars and start over again, and then fight from there
What's wrong with the new gun laws? They aren't that big of deal and don't really affect gun owners whatsoever. High schools don't allow guns why should colleges be any different? It's not a big deal, I don't know why people are pretending it is..
96 comments
31 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
I wonder how well a declaration / fee schedule would work in this regard. If they attempt to force your child to get a vaccination, just submit a fee schedule for violation of rights, damage and loss of the child payable in advance of the vaccination. Make it a large enough sum that they wont go though with it and if they dont want to be held liable and submit it to any agent that attempts to force this on you. Statute Law being contract law. IF they are going to pass laws like this then do whatever it takes to hold the people involved accountable.
4 no1113 2016-01-03
Wonderful comment.
1 HAESisAMyth 2016-01-03
ELI25andIANAL?
21 Amos_Quito 2016-01-03
From the link within your link:
California Gov. Jerry Brown signs new vaccination law, one of nation's toughest
So, who the hell is Dr. Paul Offit?
Offit, AKA "Offit for Profit" is a "vaccine advocate" an admitted paid shill for the vaccine industry who shamelessly and soullessly pimps vaccines in exchange for filthy lucre.
Here is a CBS News article on this charlatan:
How Independent Are Vaccine Defenders?
FULL ARTICLE:
[??? > $$$ / PROFIT!!! :-) ]
Gee, YA THINK???
Modifying Offit's comment from above:
Offit: "He's gone so far as to say babies can tolerate "10,000 vaccines at once"
Well, if that be the case, a BIG, STRONG GROWNUP MAN like Dr. Offit should be able to take a MILLION vaccines at once.
PAGING DR. OFFIT - DR. PAUL OFFIT TO THE WHITE COURTESY PHONE. PLEASE!!!
Help wanted: 1,000,000 volunteers with 1,000,000 needles and 1,000,000 doses of vaccine (your choice - BYOV). It's for the good of humanity! Honest~!
/Overuse of bold and ALL CAPS
EDIT: Thanks for the gold!
9 no1113 2016-01-03
What's worse than what you just posted here is that most people won't do the research or have the critical thinking capacity that you've demonstrated, so they will just end up taking in the good Dr. Profit's advice at face value - as "the only right answer!" - and will parade it around to everyone, perpetuating an unhealthy lie that does more harm than good to everyone.
4 urban__sombrero 2016-01-03
How else will they spread their mind control heavy metal toxins? The world is waking up to this nonsense and California is trying to squash our revolution.
1 CitizenKing 2016-01-03
Pfthaha
2 bgny 2016-01-03
This dr should be offit the planet. What a disgusting human being.
10 Putin_loves_cats 2016-01-03
This + the new guns laws * (so many other things) = why the fuck is anyone living in that authoritarian state, smh..
4 cannibaloxfords 2016-01-03
soon as they federally mandate flu shots and get rid of guns, its ex-patriot time cause no one wants to fight back as long as fast food, beer, and tv. might as well colonize some still free country before we can go to mars and start over again, and then fight from there
7 Putin_loves_cats 2016-01-03
This is what I think will happen. Somewhere in the world, like the phoenix will be reborn from the ashes. Another beacon of freedom, but reformatted (improved) from what we've learned. I personally think the US is Rome and it's definitely at the top of the hill (burning) teetering, about to fall. The end days of Rome/Weimar Republic are uncanny to the US.
6 cannibaloxfords 2016-01-03
yeah, ive said this in a thread in other post on this sub and was labeled a traitor. The thing is, no one's fighting and it would be smart to go colonize somewhere to create a form of insurance against the coming A.) implosion of this country or B.) Absolute Orwellian system with all freedoms replaced with P.C. watch everything, record everything while eating frakenfoods, getting pimped full of mandatory shots, while at re-education camps
4 Putin_loves_cats 2016-01-03
Fuck those people. The founding fathers were British "traitors". Just like in their time, they knew they needed to establish a new country with freedom. I think this will ultimately happen. People will ex-pat and establish a new country based on founding principles. I see nothing wrong with that. Or, there could be a 2nd revolution in the US. Really not sure how that would all go down. Tis' interesting times we live in.
1 cannibaloxfords 2016-01-03
it should be 2 ways to insure success. 1 group, majority, stays to fight all the evil corrupt revolving door horse shit, the other groups ex-pat to some still free country like Greenland or Madagascar and colonize on founding principles while establishing trade and bureaucratic support from various global countries for sake of "protection"
4 no1113 2016-01-03
Much as I agree with not standing by as one's country goes to shit, going to another area is bad if that "colonization" involves killing and/or enslaving the people that might already be there before you. This has been the m.o. of past "colonizers", and it really sucked for those that were in the land beforehand.
Seems it'd be better to stay and fight to make things right. The world's pretty crowded at this point and there aren't too many other places to go that don't already have their own population already there.
1 Putin_loves_cats 2016-01-03
I agree.
1 [deleted] 2016-01-03
what about the indians they but chered to take land that rightfully belonged to the natives? i have seen u write long well-developed comments, so i know u care about exposing the lies, but this blatant lack of humanity in self-proclaimed champions for truth boggles the mind.
3 tms10000 2016-01-03
I read that book. "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin.
1 cannibaloxfords 2016-01-03
bout to look in to that. thanks
1 magnora7 2016-01-03
Funny it's the state where the US cultural revolution happened, but now it's just rule-central
1 Amos_Quito 2016-01-03
The psychology of the mob is easily manipulated by those who are adept, and it has been honed into a science.
1 prolix 2016-01-03
What's wrong with the new gun laws? They aren't that big of deal and don't really affect gun owners whatsoever. High schools don't allow guns why should colleges be any different? It's not a big deal, I don't know why people are pretending it is..
1 no1113 2016-01-03
I guess you're not familiar with the totalitarian tip toe...
1 [deleted] 2016-01-03
[deleted]
2 Putin_loves_cats 2016-01-03
I'll take the cold woods and freedom over that shit. To each their own!
1 no1113 2016-01-03
I live in California and still upvoted you.
5 YachtRock_SoSmooth 2016-01-03
It's also made harder if someone wanted to create a petition to get this possibly changed, the fee to file a petition increased from $200 to $2000 this year also.
6 no1113 2016-01-03
Jesus - what? Are you serious? smh Everything is a fucking rich man's trick.
2 YachtRock_SoSmooth 2016-01-03
Never heard of that one, thanks for posting.
2 no1113 2016-01-03
A saddening, infuriating, and very enlightening doc all at the same time.
4 stmfreak 2016-01-03
Hope you all are paying attention, because this is how freedom dies. One small well intentioned step at a time.
I expect we will see a massive explosion in the mandated vaccine schedule over the next decade.
2 NoTheOtherChris 2016-01-03
Yeah its also how polio and countless viruses stay out of the population. Can you dumb fucks on this sub make up your mind? Are they depopulating us or are they keeping us alive with vaccines? Make up your mind.
2 stmfreak 2016-01-03
You know what? Fruits and vegetables are good for me. But that doesn't mean I want a government agent deciding what I eat with every meal. Same thing with vaccines. Good for me. Good for my kids. But not up to the government to force them into my body.
Try to understand it is possible to believe in and trust vaccines without believing in and trusting our government.
1 NoTheOtherChris 2016-01-03
What you're saying is you don't trust the government to enforce vaccines on you that you would other wise trust. That means you simply don't want to do what they tell you which is pretty childish.
1 stmfreak 2016-01-03
Actually, it's pretty adult to want to govern one's own life and choices. I might trust the vaccines. I might want to wait a few years and see how they work out. I might decline entirely, as is my right.
Would you want me, specifically me, to decide what gets injected into your body and what does not? Because that's the random equivalent of allowing our government to make these decisions.
0 no1113 2016-01-03
Agreed...unfortunately.
0 _1001_ 2016-01-03
'well intentioned'
2 typwar 2016-01-03
If you think forced vaccination against certain diseases is bad or wrong or the illuminati poisoning you you're an idiot. Why should half a hospital be shut down and quarantined cause some dumbass or his parents decided against a TB vaccine, forcing all these other people to find treatment elsewhere or wait for treatment due to the risks of being in the same hospital as this person
6 dalik 2016-01-03
If you can show me that each individual vaccination is 100% safe for each person than I'm happy to listen. I don't think you will be able to find it and that is the problem.
The problem is that vaccinations are not 100% safe. There are generally two groups of people. The ones that are happy to sacrifice those people in the good of the whole "collateral damage" and those that want a choice for their future.
Tell me are you the type that is happy to sacrifice other people for the whole?
Or are you about personal choice and freedom for self determination?
1 holpuch09 2016-01-03
Sooo, by your logic people shouldn't use chemotherapy because it isn't 100% safe?
2 Big_Girl_Luver 2016-01-03
2 dalik 2016-01-03
Chemotherapy is a choice.
2 holpuch09 2016-01-03
Not for children. It's up to their parents just like vaccines in most places.
1 dalik 2016-01-03
What is your point?
2 holpuch09 2016-01-03
That the logic of refusing vaccines because they aren't 100% safe isn't actually logical.
If we decided we should do things that were only 100% safe we wouldn't really do much of anything at all. It doesn't do anyone good to support the fear mongering tactics of anti vaxxers. I agree that some pro vaxxers do the same thing, but there is imperical evidence proving that vaccines have led to the near eradication of several diseases, many of which have now become prevalent again due to people refusing them, and this all started because someone published a false study, and has since lost his license to practice medicine.
0 dalik 2016-01-03
You lost me at the first sentence.
It's not logical to refuse something that you believe may hurt you? I think if I set myself on fire I will get hurt isn't logical and smart?
There is fear mongering on both sides. Some are valid some are not, but if we're going to have this conversation, lets talk about what isn't talked about. The people that are a live but now disabled long term after getting a vaccination. Showing this side of the impact isn't fear mongering its showing the possible risks. I think this is reasonable and responsible to do. I have asked these questions but no one will answer it.
I understand that some vaccines can help with the health of the population. I understand that disease comes and goes over time not due to vaccines but general sanitation of the population.
Just remember that throughout history, the earth was the center of the universe, it was also flat and there had been witches and some of these people that questioned the narrative died over it. Now we think that is silly.
I still haven't been shown vaccinations to be safe and we don't really have long term studies on I would assume most vaccinations in use today. Like the politicians who pass bills to find out whats in them later on is exactly the same mentality here. We just don't have good information to make a sound decision. We have some information, which I assume is mostly accurate. But some people are fine to risk other people to test the vaccinations. We're likely causing some damage to the children and their children which we may yet to understand.
But we can agree that vaccinations are not safe and that there are people who're happy to kill/disable for the betterment of the whole or at least for those that can't get vaccinations. It's ironic that these people in my conversations have never admitted to supporting collateral damage when other people are involved.
As of now there are 0 deaths from measles in 12 years in the US As of now there are about 500 deaths from TB on average with 9000 or so cases reported each year, more than 1/2 being from foreign-born people and I suspect the others are in poor health anyway due to age and lifestyle choices.
We can cry that 500 is to many, I think there are much bigger problems to deal with that are killing a lot more people each year.
1 holpuch09 2016-01-03
So from your own admission a majority of cases are from people who haven't been vaccinated?
What about the surge in whooping cough as of late?
Not to mention the question of how setting oneself on fire relates to vaccines, chemotherapy, or other medicinal practice...
1 dalik 2016-01-03
I'm laying out the facts that I saw on the CDC. I don't know if these people had been vaccinated and frankly I don't really care if they had or not. My point is, these numbers are low and while these numbers are low IMO while we have voluntary vaccination tells me we have other problems to focus on.
I'm unsure why we're continuing..
What about whooping cough? 30 die since the vaccination was released, before it was 9000. I didn't check if this is USA data but I will assume it is.
The fire statement has no relation to vaccines. That statement went went over your head, so reread it again or move on because it doesn't' matter.
I'm not saying vaccinations are all bad by the way. I'm saying that they should be a choice because not everyone that takes them will respond well.
0 4755300970158 2016-01-03
Of course they're fine with sacrificing others for the greater good. The real question is, are they willing to sacrifice themselves and their loved ones for the greater good?
While I try not to underestimate the blindness of 'herd mentality,' the rabidly pro-vaccine group always surprises me.
-1 typwar 2016-01-03
I never said that 100% of vaccinations are safe for each and every person. If you can find where I said that, I'd be happy to listen. I don't think you'll be able to find it and that is the problem.
Do you think the life of one person is more important than the 100,000 they might infect with a disease?
2 dalik 2016-01-03
I'm not saying you said its 100% safe I'm asking for proof that they're. I'm asking for any person that support forced vaccinations to provide me a solid study or proof that shows each vaccination is safe for everyone its going to be forced upon. This is never brought up in conversation because it doesn't exist. There will always be people who will suffer in various ways but this is hardly ever brought up.
You're calling me an idiot because I don't agree with forced vaccinations. I don't agree because I don't believe they're safe as in all vaccinations, I haven't seen that they're safe. I have studied history about governments not being honest with the people of the world and today is no different.
I asked you a direct question, it was specific because its forcing you to give me an answer that publicly shows your true character. Even if you're ok with killing or disabling that one person are you willing to do it yourself? I don't think most people would, I doubt you would do the injection.
I think everyones life is important, but it's more important to me that each person has the ability to self determine their own life. So I would allow nature to take its course and many will suffer, some will die. But at least they had the choice.
-1 merryman1 2016-01-03
I wasn't going to get involved with this thread but I just had to step in on this one...
You know what mate. You're right. Vaccines are not 100% safe. You know what is even less safe? Dying of fucking measles or TB or some other long-forgotten disease because you didn't want to risk feeling a bit under the weather for a couple of days
Jeez. And that's not even getting into the narcissism of risking the lives of so many people who can't get these vaccinations just because you're too chicken to get the jab.
1 dalik 2016-01-03
I have no issue of vaccinations in themselves as long as its a choice to get.
1 _1001_ 2016-01-03
Why do we as a society have this altruistic view of the world on the issue of vaccines but not on other issues?
2 typwar 2016-01-03
Such as?
1 Sambob0418 2016-01-03
Why is it OK for one person to wipe their ass with hundred dollar bills while children are dieing on the streets from hunger and homelessness?
0 typwar 2016-01-03
It isn't. Great point
1 [deleted] 2016-01-03
[deleted]
0 typwar 2016-01-03
Good one buddy
0 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
The evidence that vaccinations are actually effective at combating diseases is circumstantial. Why must we rely on the big pharma to resolve these issues. There interest is profit driven, not people driven. hence, its in their interest to keep people sick without knowing they are sick.
Its an interesting control mechanism. Use propaganda to scare everyone into thinking they are going to get infected, then force a cocktail of chemicals onto every person that you made, people get sick and dont know why, then sell them more drugs to treat symptoms of that the vaccines caused, profit? Problem, Reaction, Solution. I'm sorry, but I dont trust the medical industry especially since they are being manipulated by the pharmaceutical industry. I will stay out of hospitals myself.
3 merryman1 2016-01-03
So... what happened to smallpox?
0 typwar 2016-01-03
You're right about that. Vaccines shouldn't be a product being pushed if their purpose is to help people. Unfortunately the people in charge of these things care more about money.
2 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
If you believe there purpose is to help people that probably a bit naive. If we want treatments that are going to help people, then we need institutions that are accountable to people. As it stands right now, we have corporations that are only accountable only to shareholders. Which means being accountable to profit. Im sure they will do whatever it takes, even making people sick to keep that profit engine rolling. Believe it.
1 typwar 2016-01-03
That is what I am saying.
1 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
ohh.
0 TwoDimesMove 2016-01-03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyDVew6J8gc|
Here is a bit of information for you. Vaccines are nasty things.
2 charles-babbage 2016-01-03
It's really hard to hold corporations accountable when you can't sue them and you're forced to buy their products.
0 no1113 2016-01-03
I wouldn't disagree with this. We should support projects and people that work toward sustainability independent of the system. Today I participated in the planting of an edible garden in a local neighborhood. Being able to plant and eat your own food is something that helps you not have to buy their products.
Certainly not easy though. Again, I wouldn't disagree with what you said.
2 Yurties 2016-01-03
Of course. Because we are all supposed to be government "drones" :-(
2 Sambob0418 2016-01-03
I'm ok with vaccines, my child is immunized by my choice, but taking away a parents right to choose what they think is best for their child is crossing a very dangerous line.
They just proved that the child belongs to the state. And that the state owns their bodies. What's next? Forced lithium to keep the mass Shootings from happening?
1 no1113 2016-01-03
This seems like a well-balanced perspective.
Well, the public water supplies have been fluoridated for quite some time now, and fluoride has been shown to retard many needed bodily and brain functions, so there's that... :/
2 CourageousCauliflowr 2016-01-03
yeah fuck that fascist horseshit. people are going to be fucking PISSED when they find out what's really going on here.
"the only safe vaccine is one that is never used" -james r. shannon, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hITYIT02rA
1 no1113 2016-01-03
Informative link there. Thanks.
2 sandrita1 2016-01-03
While the LA Times thinks this development is a good thing, you can bet this newspaper will not investigate the fact that many vaccinated people got the measles during the Disney outbreak. Neither will the LA Times do a story on the adverse effects of vaccinations. http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-0202-vaccination-rates-20160201-story.html The most affluent and well-informed parents in California are against this vaccination law. Many will leave the state or homeschool their children. California will be worse off when the best and the brightest are not in their schools.
1 no1113 2016-01-03
All well-said.
1 vezokpiraka 2016-01-03
Good. I hope we get a law like this where I live.
-1 no1113 2016-01-03
Whoosh.
4 vezokpiraka 2016-01-03
?
1 Romek_himself 2016-01-03
lol --- without a state controll this is free money for drug companys
they just can sell whatever placebo they want and get money for it by law ... just lol
1 _1001_ 2016-01-03
Fuck and here I was considering moving there
1 no1113 2016-01-03
You can still move to CA. Just don't have or bring any kids...
0 DogPawsCanType 2016-01-03
I actually think this is good, only idiots don't vaccinate without a proper medical reason not too.
0 TheRightToBearArms 2016-01-03
Steering clear of Cali seems smart.
1 no1113 2016-01-03
The state has many positives, but I can see how one would come to the conclusion you have at this point.
1 TheRightToBearArms 2016-01-03
It's my top 3 favorite state. Just to much shir happening recently.
2 no1113 2016-01-03
I wouldn't disagree with that, unfortunately.
-1 prolix 2016-01-03
Forced immunizations have existed for years. They are just trying to better enforce it for public health reasons.
7 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
Tactic 1: Its already happening just submit Tactic 2: its for health reason that we feel we know better than everyone else how health should be handled.
Both are lies and in disguise.
Nobody has a right to force individuals to submit to systems of control that have no business telling others what to do since they are the ones causing all the diseases in the first place.
1 NoTheOtherChris 2016-01-03
Provide one shred of evidence that vaccines mind control people or whatever the fuck it is you idiots on here think they do. Oh thats right. You can't. You're just trying to spread your own propaganda which is just the thing you people accuse the guvment of doing. Are any of you idiots doctors? Are any of you dumbasses on this sub above the intelligence of say a paranoid 14 year old?
-2 prolix 2016-01-03
First of all, the CDC does know better than almost everyone else on how health should be handled. You think Hepatitis and the Measles are a joke? You think infants and elderly dying from the flu is a joke? How selfish can you be thinking that this only affects the one being immunized and not everyone around them..
6 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
Dude if you think government operations are in the business of helping people then I dont know what else to tell you. Its clear as day that institution after institution has been corrupted to the core. I have absolution zero reason to trust any government program at this point. And if you were smart, you would think twice about how much you think you know about the government. When the government is back in our hands then talk to me about who knows what, other that you are wasting your breath.
1 prolix 2016-01-03
Do you have any idea of how vast the leadership of the CDC is? You do realize that the CDC is controlled predominately by MD's and scientists who have extensive education in their field and know what they are doing? Do you really believe that all of these people are conspiring against you or that the curtain has been pulled over all of their eyes to deceive you? Be reasonable and look at things from a more realistic point of view.
0 trinsic-paridiom 2016-01-03
All you need to do is to look around you to see where we are at today for an answer to your question.
0 stmfreak 2016-01-03
Still run by humans who still make mistakes. Only now, those mistakes will be amplified across the entire population instead of just the random volunteers.
2 MoJo81 2016-01-03
For profit reasons.
-1 rabbits_dig_deep 2016-01-03
That giant sucking sound you hear is smart parents of school age children leaving California. If the drought doesn't kill you, the vaccines will.
2 no1113 2016-01-03
Don't know why this got so downvoted. I understand the cynicism in it. Though I don't have any kids (thank God!) I live in CA, so I understand how lame and draconian this b.s. regulation is.
2 rabbits_dig_deep 2016-01-03
/r/conspiracy has been overrun by shills, as well as the merely ignorant. Seems like most of my comments get downvoted anymore. My karma of nearly 10,000 is mainly from years ago.
4 cannibaloxfords 2016-01-03
soon as they federally mandate flu shots and get rid of guns, its ex-patriot time cause no one wants to fight back as long as fast food, beer, and tv. might as well colonize some still free country before we can go to mars and start over again, and then fight from there
1 magnora7 2016-01-03
Funny it's the state where the US cultural revolution happened, but now it's just rule-central
1 prolix 2016-01-03
What's wrong with the new gun laws? They aren't that big of deal and don't really affect gun owners whatsoever. High schools don't allow guns why should colleges be any different? It's not a big deal, I don't know why people are pretending it is..
-1 no1113 2016-01-03
Whoosh.