Linguistical Anarchy

34  2016-02-10 by swankygoose

I've had the feeling/known for a while now that linguistics is exactly how we as humans are able to be divided and conquered so easily by those who would offer us false solutions that only serve to enrich themselves. Doesn't it always feel like when you're discussing something like government with people who are less receptive to alternatives that you're speaking two different languages?? That's because we literally are, people talk as if they have agreed on the definitions of the words they are using but that's a tragic misconception...

There's no socialism, democracy, communism, etc... those are all just terms people use to convince themselves that at some point their consent was required. Well guess what it wasn't. Government is fucking slavery and no I'm not being overly dramatic, I just wanna call things by there proper names and we need to start calling these politicians what they really are, psycopaths

I HIGHLY recommend everyone that cares about actual change give this video series by Mark Passio a watch, I personally felt after viewing it like I had been given the tools to properly articulate the principles I have been trying to live by. I can't think of a better feeling than that, if we can't even properly name, pinpoint and describe our perceived greivances with the government in it's entirety than how can we ever hope to fix anything?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo&feature=youtu.be

69 comments

13  alanpro 2016-02-10

Not a bible thumper in any way. Read about the tower of Babylon in the king James bible. Basically, some leader thought he was so powerful he could build a tower so high that he could rival God's power. God, in return, made all the slaves and workers start to speak different languages so they could not organize the labor efforts. The construction was forever ended. Just a parable, but it shows exactly how old this strategy is. In my view, I think politicians use this reason for immigration, to keep people from being able to "unite" against them.

2  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I love that you mention this because I used to attend catholic school when I was in junior high and I will always remember how blown away I was by the implications of the story of the tower of Babel, not only did i realize what a bitter asshole God is made out to be in the bible, but I had also never considered how strange it is that people speak so many different languages and how much potential information wasn't being shared between language barriers because of this. It was definitely the catalyst to my interest in linguistics!

I too also believe that politicians use linguistic double speak to deceive people in a much less obvious and therefore more pervasive way. It's not a war its a military conflict, it's not torture its interrogation, Its not theft its taxation. No wonder they have to deaden our minds with public school regurgitated factoid nonsense for 12 years. Once you know to call these men what they really are, pathological liars and psychopaths, the world makes a lot more sense.

1  alanpro 2016-02-10

Thanks for the reply. Lutheran school for me. Just need to go to court on any given day and see the 6 different translators needed in traffic court to know how bad language barriers are. One reason I am such a hard ass on immigrants that refuse to learn English, and more so on Americans who support them not having to learn it.

7  wanktown 2016-02-10

"The basic tool for the manipulation of reality is the manipulation of words. If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use the words." - Philip K Dick

6  justamonarch 2016-02-10

The changes in language are indeed a strange thing to watch, and a bit of a hobby of mine. Thanks for the post.

6  DocHopper-- 2016-02-10

Mark Passio is legit.

6  whyawoman 2016-02-10

well, english is a very structured language, it affects peoples' perception as well... earlier languages, the way that they were used, were much more poetic. "let's smoke together for a while" would translate to something like "let's watch the air from our bodies play as friends do", and of course the connotation of "air" here would be like a "soul" shared by every thing in the universe.

so yeah linguistical anarchy would also require a change in perception. "let's watch the air from our bodies play" sounds silly and foolish, but it is also deeply resonant with what is infinite and "absolute" in terms of our relationship to this world and each other... there's a real sense of kinship and integrity behind that translation compared to "let's smoke together".

2  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I don't have anything to add but i pick up exactly what you are putting down and I love it!

4  Knotdothead 2016-02-10

TL;DW

Are you familiar with neurolinguistic programming? If not, you should look into it.

3  dopeedits 2016-02-10

You should really watch it. It goes far beyond NLP...

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I'm aware of NLP but I'm always open to any leads on stuff like this you might have!

I personally found this page describing Thought Terminating Cliches to be absolutely fascinating:

http://jorgenmodin.net/index_html/wikpedias-now-deleted-page-on-thought-terminating-cliche

Once I realized the purpose they serve (a commonly used phrase, sometimes passing as folk wisdom, used to propagate cognitive dissonance) and how unbelievably prevalent they are (“Everything happens for a reason.” “Don't judge.” “Why? Because I said so." etc..) I began to appreciate how thorough our language control has become.

1  Knotdothead 2016-02-10

Abracadabra.
It's an ancient Greek word that means "with words,I create"

Let that bounce around in you're brain for a while.

4  facereplacer3 2016-02-10

Love Passio. Well said.

3  LegendaryPeace 2016-02-10

Good post.

There's no socialism, democracy, communism, etc... those are all just terms people use to convince themselves that at some point their consent was required.

Exactly. These -isms are just ideas. They don't actually exist in the real world. A 200 year old piece of paper with fancy writing can't make any body 'equal.' The only thing that backs up any constitution, no matter how lofty its ideals, is force.

People think American democracy = freedom and equality. Um, what about the lobbyists, tax-exempt foundations, oligarchs, (certain) multinational corporations, and secret societies that exist outside of the democratic process? What about the major Wall Street players, the federal reserve, and the international banks, none of whom are effectively regulated by Congress? Or how about the rogue elements of our military and intelligence agencies that time and again have shown they are above the law? The truth is that tons of power, perhaps even all of it, flows through private channels in this country. We have never been a democracy.

Just for fun, let's pretend for a second that somehow a Communist utopia actually happened and everyone had the exact same amount of money, there was no longer a ruling class, etc. Besides the fact that this state of affairs would never last, it's important to realize that people still wouldn't be equal. Tall, good-looking guys would still get more attention from women. People with knowledge and skills would still be highly in demand to fix things. Talented people (artists, writers, etc.) would still gain fame and renown. Lonely people would still be bitter.

Equality does not exist in nature, and obviously cannot be granted by an -ism premised on one group being given a monopoly on the use of force/violence.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Everything you said is just so on the money for me it's really nice to know other people feel the same way. This part in particular really resonated with me though:

Exactly. These -isms are just ideas. They don't actually exist in the real world. A 200 year old piece of paper with fancy writing can't make any body 'equal.' The only thing that backs up any constitution, no matter how lofty its ideals, is force.

It reminds me so much of conversations I've been having with some of my friends about the TPP. Some of them are fretting over it being signed into law and what some politicians may or may not do to stop it, and I'm constantly trying to convey to them that their is absolutely no significance to a bunch of old rich men and women meeting in a room and signing a document with literally any amount or arrangement of words on it other than the significance we give it. These are all just rituals they perform and then broadcast to us through various mediums (TV, Radio, Internet) People see it, they see the signing or whatever it is being done and they know from that ritual and symbolism that the deed is done and boom you've just manufactured consent. We literally would have no clue about any of these people or events if it weren't for the state's various mouthpieces forcing it down our throat, but we don't have to buy what they are peddling if we understand our true self-evident rights.

3  daddie_o 2016-02-10

Thanks for the link! Great stuff. I found it helpful to speed up the presentation to 1.5x speed...

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Absolutely! I'm really excited people are watching this. I couldn't be any more sincere when I say this was life changing for me.

1  daddie_o 2016-02-10

I just finished watching it, and I already feel the same way about about. Thank you.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that, made writing this all worth while :)

2  newharddrive 2016-02-10

All words have multiple meanings and can mean different things to different people.

1  5arge 2016-02-10

Stupid people are afraid of words because intelligent people can use words to trick them, or mislead them, or worse. OP expresses the fears of a moron living in a world of smarter people.

2  newharddrive 2016-02-10

It is not always just intelligence. It is also the price of your education. Did you go to private prep schools? Well, then you are going to speak well...

0  5arge 2016-02-10

I went to public school then borrowed money to go to university. I invested in myself.

-1  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

Or if you are born in England. Even their dumbest people sound intelligent.

1  newharddrive 2016-02-10

Not to me. Have you ever heard the soccer player Beckman speak? He sounds like a total airhead. Also, they have lots of local dialects that I can't tell you one word of what they said....

1  Throw671542 2016-02-10

Dags. Ya like dags?

0  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

I've seen way worse than this by American athletes. Put it in perspective.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fjJzf6FLqMg

1  newharddrive 2016-02-10

This is a little bit later after he aqquired a bit of polish here. But, you are right. I have seen much worse by US guys. Some have brain damage of course, but many (perhaps most) "US" athletes were not born or raised in the US.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

That's an awfully rude comment, I always wonder what kinds of people feel it necessary to attack others like that its just petty I mean if you really don't agree with me just present your case, I'm totally open to the idea of being wrong!

That being said, fear is the exact opposite of what these revelations have made me feel, I am more certain of my communication and critical thinking skills then ever so don't be to quick to fill my mouth with all your words that I'm apparently afraid of.

1  5arge 2016-02-10

No. You don't get to pretend you are empowered by your weakness now. If you want to present big ideas to the general public, be prepared for big criticism. If you said what you think you meant, that is what I would have understood. What you said is that big words scare you and smarter people are evil because you are not as smart as they are. It is a pathetic opinion, and I have no qualms about telling you that. If you can't take harsh criticism, keep your half baked opinions to yourself. If you want to be free to speak your mind, allow others to do so, even if it hurts your feelings. You have a right to be hurt and you also have a right to go cry in the corner about it.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I'm sorry but nothing could be farther from the truth I'm not trying to be rude but either you have very poor reading comprehension skills or you are purposely trying to distort my message either way I can't pretend that any of what you said relates at all to what I was communicating.

Quote the exact parts that you feel I communicate what you just said and then we'll go from there.

1  5arge 2016-02-10

There's no socialism, democracy, communism, etc... those are all just terms people use to convince themselves that at some point their consent was required. Well guess what it wasn't. Government is fucking slavery and no I'm not being overly dramatic, I just wanna call things by there proper names and we need to start calling these politicians what they really are, psycopaths

Right here. Words scare you and smarter people scare you. Apparently people who know more than you do are speaking a different language, and those who know how to acquire power better than you are psychopaths. It's pathetic. You haven't found enlightenment, you've found ignorance. As I suggested from the start... go learn another language and then you will realize how goofy it is to put more meaning into words than their basic meaning.

I am purposefully being rude to shock you into realizing how naive and immature your position is. I seek out these rambling philosophical self posts in /r/conspiracy specifically to argue with the OP. I believe that philosophy doesn't belong here in this sub, and I will never stop questioning the ridiculous premises posted here. This isn't /r/halfbakedphilosophy, it's /r/conspiracy.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Okay I'm working atm so I will more thoroughly address this when I have some free time today and I do appreciate you quoting me but why are you so hostile, you clearly have a different opinion of what I wrote than most others in here including myself, this is exactly what I meant when I said people speak different languages, you and I can't even agree on what I said

1  5arge 2016-02-10

this is exactly what I meant when people speak different languages, you and I can't even agree on what I said

Yes, we agree on that point. My angle is that you are making big bold claims about language, and how it is used "against us" when in fact you are just struggling to understand the language and how to use it on others. Hench I am not picking up what you think you are throwing.

The people who "agree" with you are just as scared and confused. It doesn't mean you are correct, it means you are not the only one suffering from fear of what you do not understand.

I am hostile because you are misleading other fools into believing what you believe.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Words scare you and smarter people scare you.

You've provided absolutely no evidence for this so once again making childish assumptions/accusations.

Apparently people who know more than you do are speaking a different language

I don't know where you get this notion of "people who know more than you do" I'm saying that we all have different personal definitions for everything. These differences are just the outcome of enviromental variables amongst other things I'm not implying anyones smarter or more in the know, simply different.

If I say my favorite color is red, but in my mind red is actually what most people would perceive as green, then that person I'm talking to is being given a complete false impression as to what I'm attempting to communicate, and this is what I see occurring so pervasively in many conversations especially those dealing with politics. I don't know how to break it down any simpler for you but I will honestly try if you need me to.

Not to mention, what's so absurd about the idea that people who as you said "know more than I do are speaking a different language" I fail to see what would be absurd about proposing that (which I didn't you did through your incorrect assumptions) for consideration, especially in a conspiracy sub of all places? Are you really that opposed to considering new ideas, actually you don't have to answer that its pretty obvious lol...

those who know how to acquire power better than you are psychopaths.

Hmm so what is a psychopath, guess we gotta agree on a definition to even talk about this huh? Kinda like I was saying Huh? okay I guess I'll just spoon feed this info to you, I'm just gonna look up a definition quick and that'll make do for the moment let's see here Wikipedia is telling me these would be some traits of a psycopath HERE COMES THE AIRPLANE:

Psychopathy Checklist-Revised: Factors, Facets, and Items

Facet 1: Interpersonal Glibness/superficial charm Grandiose sense of self-worth Pathological lying Cunning/manipulative

Facet 2: Affective Lack of remorse or guilt Emotionally shallow Callous/lack of empathy Failure to accept responsibility for own action

These are the traits necessary to get the "power" you refer to, by power I'm assuming you mean being immune to the repercussions of breaking the laws you create, facilitated by wielding the violence of the state (although I doubt you appreciate this)

It's pathetic. You haven't found enlightenment, you've found ignorance.

Yet more angry blathering with no argument provided.

go learn another language and then you will realize how goofy it is to put more meaning into words than their basic meaning.

And what meaning would that be? What is a basic meaning, what does that even mean? Are you seriously not getting it yet man, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about we all have different (even if not by much) personalized definitions for EVERYTHING. Your title of "basic meaning" is abitrary.

I am purposefully being rude to shock you into realizing how naive and immature your position is.

Hows that working out for you so far? I'm genuinley curious, is this how you typically go about having discussions? Does it yield the intended results ever? I can't imagine it does anything but make you unpleasant to discuss with luckily I'm resilient and I wanna help you.

I seek out these rambling philosophical self posts in /r/conspiracy specifically to argue with the OP. I believe that philosophy doesn't belong here in this sub

Your beliefs are utterly irrelevant, you personify close mindedness.

Now wheres all that fear you were talking about?? lmao

1  5arge 2016-02-10

lmao

I was going to respond to you in kind... then I got to this part. You are every bit the fool I accuse you of being. For that reason, I will keep my rebuttal simple:

When someone says something like this:

I'm saying that we all have different personal definitions for everything.

...they reveal how fucking stupid they really are. Your personal definition is not the definition. You did not create the language. The reason you think (for example) the color red is actually green is because you (the proverbial "you") are an idiot, not because you speak a "different language". This is precisely why I am telling you to go get educated... learn another language, any fucking language and then get past your absurd notion that you can have personal definitions. Fools make up their own definitions for words because they are not able to learn what a word really means, or they don't care to. YOU are the problem that you are describing. YOU are the one who says "government is slavery". No dummy, government is government and slavery is slavery.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I was going to respond to you in kind... then I got to this part. You are every bit the fool I accuse you of being.

Oh I guess it's not fun when people are rude to you huh? That's pretty ironic dude you are so hypocritical it's ridiculous

...they reveal how fucking stupid they really are. Your personal definition is not the definition. You did not create the language. The reason you think (for example) the color red is actually green is because you (the proverbial "you") are an idiot, not because you speak a "different language". This is precisely why I am telling you to go get educated... learn another language, any fucking language and then get past your absurd notion that you can have personal definitions. Fools make up their own definitions for words because they are not able to learn what a word really means, or they don't care to. YOU are the problem that you are describing. YOU are the one who says "government is slavery". No dummy, government is government and slavery is slavery

I love this because you prove my point so well here and you still continue to miss it it's almost too perfect. Are you gonna tell me that someone who has learned a second language is going to be talking the exact same language with no variations in understanding as a native born speaker or ANYONE for that matter. Yet again how are you missing this, I'm not talking about whatever dictionary definition your mind is stuck on, obviously these personal defintions are exactly what this whole conversation was about. I hope you re read all of this and finally get it man. Best of luck, and way to cop out I'm dissapointed I wasted my time with you, intellectual cowardice smh

1  5arge 2016-02-10

Are you gonna tell me that someone who has learned a second language is going to be talking the exact same language with no variations in understanding as a native born speaker or ANYONE for that matter.

Simply put, yes you simpleton. When you learn any language besides English you will realize not every language has broad meanings and multiple meanings for every word. All your big talk and condescending bullshit doesn't help your case. You don't know what you are talking about because you only speak one language. Everything you are saying is in terms of English only and you just can't know any better because you don't know any other languages. I have not proven your point once... your point is idiotic. You can't just make up your own definitions for things and blame the language for your confusion. It's your fault for being dumb!

0  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

Sounds like a good reason to be afraid of words to me. Like the old saying goes, walk the walk, don't talk the talk,

0  5arge 2016-02-10

No, as I told you before, stay in school educate yourself. Don't be the dummy, be the start one.

2  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

Ad hominem attack will get you nowhere. Just admit you were wrong, get down on your knees and pucker up.

0  5arge 2016-02-10

When I am wrong, I admit it. When I am wrong, I don't follow people into other threads to make snarky comments, I keep the discussion where it began.

0  [deleted] 2016-02-10

[removed]

0  IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-02-10

Rule 5 says you'd better stop that.

1  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

I wasn't really stalking him. My comments were in relation to the thread. He chose to bring up the other thread.

1  IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-02-10

Fair enough, just a heads-up though as he reported you.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I understand that, and not only can they mean different things to different people, I think almost without fail they always DO mean different things to different people. And that's fine everyone is obviously not going to think exactly the same and I appreciate that, but it is absolutely something that must be recognized because two people can not pretend to have a conversation about any subject if they don't even know what the other person is truly talking about.

If I say my favorite color is red, but in my mind red is actually what most people would perceive as green, then that person I'm talking to is being given a complete false impression as to what I'm attempting to communicate, and this is what I see occurring so pervasively in many conversations especially those dealing with politics

2  hprsth 2016-02-10

I have one question: what is the alternative? Humans have never not had government. Actually, even animals such as wolves and chimpanzees (and many others) have government. Maybe it sucks, but it is the natural way of social structures, and chances are there will never be an alternative.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I appreciate the question! The alternative is voluntary interactions between consenting parties. Saying that just because it hasn't happened means it won't happen isn't exactly an argument, to me that would be like living in pre civil war america and asking "Well how would we make do without slavery?"

Anarchy is a word that has ALOT of unecessary negative connotation tied to it and I believe this to be no accident. There is so much information I want to show you on this subject I hardly know where to begin but I think you should check out this book:

http://cdn.media.freedomainradio.com/feed/books/PA/Practical_Anarchy_by_Stefan_Molyneux_PDF.pdf

And this post I made a while back here, dealing with anarchy:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3d6klf/i_feel_we_as_a_community_need_to_define_the/

If you have any questions or wanna talk about this at all definitely feel free to message me!

2  Itwasabright99 2016-02-10

I don't drink or do drugs (I always get a kick out of this one). I support humanitarian wars. I support congress not progress. I support genocide economics not supply side economics. I'm gifted not elite. I'm educated not indoctrinated. I believe all laws come from god not man. I'm pro life not pro choice. I believe in free trade not fair trade. I will not be pushed out, kicked out, suspended, or dropped out. I've been focus grouped, push polled, and exit polled. I support k street not main street. I don't like anal sex, oral copulation, or fornication outside of marriage. I support war not war crimes. I support enhanced interrogation not torture. I hope I have your support.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I feel you, and you should definitely check this page out:

http://jorgenmodin.net/index_html/wikpedias-now-deleted-page-on-thought-terminating-cliche

2  magnora7 2016-02-10

Good post. Words are important and can be used to manipulate. George Carlin talked about this.

-4  5arge 2016-02-10

This is the position of the uneducated and foolish. Only a simpleton is scared of language, ideas, and concepts. What you fail to grasp is that you are thinking and speaking in one language, which shows a lack of intelligence and inability to understand the big picture. Go learn another language and stop being a dummy.

2  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

just chill the fuck out

-4  5arge 2016-02-10

Fuck you. Go stalk someone else.

3  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

You need humility.

-3  5arge 2016-02-10

You need a punch in the face.

4  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

That's much to uncivilized for someone as intelligent as yourself

2  Jango139 2016-02-10

This is the position of the uneducated and foolish. Only a simpleton is scared of language, ideas, and concepts.

Recognizing its power over those who it does effect is worthwhile for examination though. Not everyone is educated and not foolish. Those of us who are educated and not foolish have to account for the lesser among us.

1  5arge 2016-02-10

Those of us who are educated and not foolish have to account for the lesser among us.

Yes, exactly! That is why I pointed this out. OP's opinion should be taken as an example of how NOT to be. A learning experience for those who may be heading down that ignorant path. People should not live in fear of what they do not know, they should seek to understand their fears, and conquer them that way.

2  Jango139 2016-02-10

Ideally yes, but the first challenge to overcome is getting said fearful people to recognize that their fears are not only controlling them but are misplaced to begin with.

1  5arge 2016-02-10

Agreed.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Both of you are making some absolutely absurd assumptions.

People should not live in fear of what they do not know

Says the guy whose non argument consists of nothing more than name calling and Olympic gold medal mental gymnastics. I find that pretty funny, the only fear here is yours being projected, grow up.

0  5arge 2016-02-10

Ha ha... you can't defend your initial point so the witch hunt begins. Maybe you can find another YouTube video that makes you feel like you learned something nobody else understands and feel empowered again. I find it funny that stupid people can't accept that they are dumb and just assume they are being called names. Nope... not the case... you are just not bright, and tried to make a profound point which fell flat.

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Ha ha... you can't defend your initial point so the witch hunt begins.

lmao I literally knew you'd bring that up this was more of a test to see how you'd respond to me answering this first because I knew you'd be dodgy and call me names yet again. No Mr. grumpy you're not getting off that easy I'll see you a few comments up

0  5arge 2016-02-10

Oh, this is a game!? I love games!

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

I'm aware

1  swankygoose 2016-02-10

Where are you guys getting this notion of fear from, I'm sorry but its coming off to me as textbook emotional projection. I think you find my ideas scary because I'm attempting to call things by their proper names and its making you uncomfortable, correct me if I'm wrong please.

2  CaucasianEagle 2016-02-10

just chill the fuck out

0  5arge 2016-02-10

When I am wrong, I admit it. When I am wrong, I don't follow people into other threads to make snarky comments, I keep the discussion where it began.

-3  5arge 2016-02-10

You need a punch in the face.

2  Jango139 2016-02-10

This is the position of the uneducated and foolish. Only a simpleton is scared of language, ideas, and concepts.

Recognizing its power over those who it does effect is worthwhile for examination though. Not everyone is educated and not foolish. Those of us who are educated and not foolish have to account for the lesser among us.