[deleted]

Nothing bad with gnosticism/luciferianism to me.

As another poster said, Lucifer was never an evil force in this mythological framework ( old testament ).

As for the freemasons, it's same recipe as scientology. Clueless people on the bottom like u/Tyler_Zoro greatly proves with his enthusiasm, and a bunch of psycho/sociopathic people at the top.

Now being a sociopath in training myself ( i try to consider it a tool but it's hard to resist to identify since it's about morals ) i see this just as a natural conflict.

There is no shame in being the bear who run towards his human meal. There is no shame in being the man who pulls a shotgun at the bear.

There really isn't shame in the natural outfit of the world. Obviously when you want a society you need morals since it's about a system that work together. If any part is broken or damaging the cause you either fix ( education, punishment, etc ) or throw it away ( kill, exile ). The problem lies in how you frame society. If for a selective group of people Society is about them and their circlejerk, they will try to fix the rest in being their puppy slaves. This is healthy to a level since a natural outfit on top of societary view is a necessary release valve ( to not become a super stressed SJW etc ). Every healthy person implements somehow, perhaps in low doses. It's the principle of self-benefit and free choice.

The problem starts when any group is be able to make other groups/people ignore that natural outfit. This group will lose touch to reality and submit to the other group.

Society becomes an integrative framework of life ( a falsehood ) instead of being the supporting cornerstone of said process. A cage.

Our ethics nowadays are, as a whole, denying us the right to shoot the bear who's have been eating us for a while. Since they don't help our natural cause, they are to a degree to be thrown in the mud.

People in this sub can only try to spread enlightenment about the cabal/bear. My personal solution has been to scare the bear off me ( after all, if you don't give him reasons to pursue you harder than the rest, it's only a mental attack ), and look for other survivors which can still walk after the assault.

So you're involved in freemasonry then?

No, i never joined a secret society. I just read some books when i started reading about conspiracies, then some articles. I "know" the high rankings of freemasonry are basically elite connections. I wanted to comment about the luciferian/gnostic bit since i hold those philosophies in high regard. You from this post alone are probably much better versed than me in this one subject.

What does "My personal solution has been to scare the bear off me" mean to you? Please give specific examples. Otherwise, I feel like it's fantasy hyperbole.

It is a fantasy hyperbole, and it is my way to see this situation. I used a bear since it was the attacker of my first example and i like using "fantastic" metaphors, as it takes the focus away from the situation and shifts it on the mechanic that creates it. However that exact quote i admit to be a stretch. What i meant with that is that i broke every form i could know of indoctrination the elite played on me. I don't buy their terror and i don't buy the guilt they want me to feel. I used to feel incredibly bad and confused back in the days where i was played by their indoctrination, now it's mostly peace. And that's because my spirit is ( or cos i perceive it as ) safe from the cabal now. The point was that is an active process of confrontation with the reality of this stuff that helped me, not blind denial. The cabal offense is mostly spiritual so if you can send it away on a emotive and intellectual level your brain will be safe from it. Until they find another way, i guess. One day they may cost me the life ( as many more ), but i can atleast get there peacefully and without outrage. Most of the time atleast.

So, I asked you some very specific questions. Your vague brush-off doesn't really address those and is beginning to make me wonder if you have any understanding of the Fraternity beyond having browsed a few conspiracy sites...

I'm not the OP. I just gave my own opinion.

Ah, sorry about that! Thought you were (obviously).

We've said before freemasons are luciferians.

Do you have any specific evidence of this that isn't the Taxil Hoax?

Gnostic globalists who exploit their hierarcy...

What hierarcy? Specifically how is this managed on a global scale in such an aggressively decentralized and regionally autonomous organization that often vehemently disagrees with parts of itself?

When you refer to Freemasonry are you including the American Prince Hall, English Women's Freemasonry, French Grand Orient, or any of the other schismatic branches of the Masonic family tree?

That they commit treasonous acts for the cross and crown in order to abuse nonmasons.

Do you have any specific evidence of that?

If you are a freemason you might get offended at that.

I never get offended by anti-Masonic claims. About the only thing that would truly offend me would be a Freemason who was saying things (positive or negative) about the Fraternity that he should know better than to believe.

I believe you'd do well to learn more.

The feeling is mutual.

I don't have time for the whole post, but this but did catch my eye at the end:

Isn't it odd that the Freemasons, a private organiztaion, were collecting our kids' DNA in their CHIP programs?

Note that no Mason (or law enforcement) ever retains any of that material (nor would they wish to, as the liability is enormous). That's collected on behalf of the parent and they leave with everything (DNA swabs when they're done are done in the parents' name and the results sent to them from the lab, not to anyone else).

The CHIP program is a great thing, and I'm proud to be part of an organization involved in helping to prevent such tragedies!

Do you have any specific evidence of this that isn't the Taxil Hoax?

I'm not claiming to know for certain but, you should check out Captain William Morgan (not joking haha). He wrote a book called The Mysteries of Freemasonry in The early 1800's.

Also, from his wikiepedia: "On September 11, 1826, Morgan was arrested for nonpayment of a loan which the creditor claimed he had not repaid, and for supposedly stealing a shirt and a tie, charges that were probably fabricated; according to the law, he could be held in debtors' prison until the amount owed was paid, making it more difficult to publish his book." Source

you should check out Captain William Morgan (not joking haha)

I'm well aware of Morgan, his kidnapping and subsequent rise of the anti-Masonic party, a period during which almost all of the East Coast's and much of the West Coast's Lodges went dark, and Freemasonry was almost extinguished in the US.

But that's evidence of local idiots being local idiots (and, sadly, Freemasons in name if not action). But that has nothing to do with the OP's claim that "freemasons are luciferians".

For evidence that the Morgan affair was not a representation of Freemasonry as a whole, note that there had been dozens of exposes of Freemasonry before and hundreds since... and in all of those cases the exposer remained unmolested. It is clear from the history that the New York Masons who committed these cowardly acts were, in fact, the exception to the rule.

But again... still not satanists.

So... you posted a bunch of links and some are even full-text duplicates of each other. Obviously the text in those documents is too long (and mostly content-free) to respond to in detail, but let me just cover the bases of what they get wrong as a whole:

• The Pike and Hall Lucifer quotes: Lucifer is an important name in Judeo-Christian belief, and no analysis of an organization whose moral allegory is entirely based on Judeo-Christian scripture could be complete without at least touching on that name. However, both Pike and Hall make it quite clear that they are using that name in a cautionary sense. Pike explicitly says, and I'm quoting the first article you linked, here, quoting Pike, "[Lucifer] blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!" So yes, if you read your Isaiah 14, you will find that Pike is paraphrasing the old Testament's warning to those who think they are the most important person in the world. It's an important lesson. Hall says basically the same thing.
• Symbols: yes, Freemasonry uses a lot of symbols and some of them you can also find in nefarious places... but if you're a competent conspiracy theorist, then I should not have to explain to you the difference between correlation and causation. In this case, symbols like the five-pointed star have a very clear historical progression, having been used by Christianity first, then Freemasonry, and then (most likely because Freemasonry is a rich source of symbolism) by the 19th century occultists like Levi and only then by the 20th century satanic groups like Levay's. We can't stop the Levis and Levays of the world from misappropriating our symbols, but it doesn't make us the bad guys.
• Conflation of Freemasonry and Freemasons: Sources like Hall and Waite are fraught with potential errors in analysis because the vast majority of their work and writings were not Masonic at all! In fact, Hall didn't even join the Fraternity until late in his life, well after almost all of his writing about the Fraternity and its place in history (much of which was liberally sprinkled with his unique blend of flight and fancy). Books like Waite's The Mysteries of Magic are not Masonic books. Freemasons exist in all walks of life. We are ministers and firefighters, authors and computer programmers, artists and ditch-diggers. You can't cherry pick the ones whose non-Masonic work you most disagree with and paint us all with that brush.
• The assertion that Freemasonry is a religion: It's not. It's simply not. The point of confusion that many people have is that we refer to a deity by name, "The Grand Architect of the Universe." So clearly that's some Masonic deity, right? Nope. If you actually go through the degrees this becomes much clearer, but to sum up: the Grand Architect is a label, a placeholder. Each individual Brother has their own belief (it's a requirement of membership) and Freemasonry will never seek to modify that belief. Every symbol and name and idea in the degrees must be seen through the filter of your individual belief or it is meaningless arm-waving. There's no such thing as a Masonic deity... only the deity you walk in the door with your faith in. Freemasonry stresses your obligation to your religion and to your God, it does not seek to supplant or modify either, ever!

"We purposefully put out disinformation like that to throw you off your tracks"

Where are you getting these "quotes" from?

There's mountains of evidence. I'm not going to qualify your laziness in research...

Positive claims require evidence. Claiming that such evidence is easily obtained is not evidence.

Freemasons have said they worship lucifer...

No, they have not. That video you linked to has been spread around a lot, but harassing an old man who is clearly having trouble putting two words together and then going "aha!" when he says something that parses the way you want isn't evidence. The man can barely answer the question, "what have you been doing?" for God's sake! I'm surprised he didn't say, "I am Lunchmeat."

But you haven't addressed the real problem: how is this strain of nefarious skulduggery that you suggest exists having a universal influence over Freemasonry? How would YOU influence a massive and decentralized collection of autonomous administrative bodies? What could you accomplish through such tenuous influence over jurisdictions that can rarely agree on what the fundamental Landmarks of Freemasonry are?

The conspiracy theorist always begins their analysis of Freemasonry by modeling it like any other organization, but I'm unaware of any other organization that has a truly decentralized administrative structure, and that punches a massive hole in most conspiracy theory right out of the gate!

And that, my brother...

There are two classes of people that get to call me Brother and you're neither my mother's son, nor (so far as I know) a member of the Fraternity...

But that has nothing to do with the OP's claim that "freemasons are luciferians".

Yeah, that's not really what was trying to prove. It was more just saying that people thought those things before the Taxil Hoax. Honestly, it seems like you know way more about Masonry than I do.

Are you familiar with the Truth, Love, Freedom podcast? The host explains that masons actually view Lucifer as a symbolic representation of knowledge and nothing more. So therefore, they actually do worship Lucifer, but not some evil Christian devil. What are your thoughts on that?

Are you familiar with the Truth, Love, Freedom podcast? The host explains that masons actually view Lucifer as a symbolic representation of knowledge and nothing more. So therefore, they actually do worship Lucifer, but not some evil Christian devil. What are your thoughts on that?

I would say two things: there's nothing in the degrees about Lucifer, so that's his interpretation, and though I personally disagree, I'll never say that another Brother's interpretation of the degrees is "wrong".

Second, I do take exception to the word "worship" as we are not a religion. We might refer to a figure allegorically, but worship is left for you to pursue as your personal faith dictates outside of the Lodge.

I would say two things: there's nothing in the degrees about Lucifer

Okay, but what about Pike's famous quote about the "doctrine of Lucifer"?

For not being a religion, masonry sure uses a lot of religious mumbo-jumbo. I do understand your point, though.

Pike's famous quote about the "doctrine of Lucifer"

I will say that I'm not expert on Pike, but I'm not aware of a "doctrine" quote. What I am aware of is this:

Lucifer the Light bearer. Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of Darkness. Lucifer the Son of the Morning. Is it he who bears the Light and with its splendors intolerable blinds feeble sensual or selfish souls? Doubt it not!

Is that the one you mean?

If so, that's not literally about Lucifer the Biblical character, just as the entire scope of Masonic allegory is not about the characters that are introduced.

Here's what I believe Pike is saying: knowledge is power and all power has a potential dark side in how you use it. What you do with power is a matter that you must consider well ahead of time. If you walk into this for selfish reasons, you will only harm yourself. If you walk into the quest for knowledge with a pure heart, then there is nothing you cannot accomplish.

I think that's always true in every walk of life whether you're talking about a college education, studying the past, self-knowledge, etc.

No, that's not it. It was in the letter that he (supposedly) wrote from prison.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Thoughts on that?

Some context

If so, that's not literally about Lucifer the Biblical character

If you told me this a year ago I would've called BS. I do understand now.

knowledge is power and all power has a potential dark side in how you use it.

Agreed. This is the same for any occulted information.

Taxil wasn't a hoax

Taxil seemed to think it was... But I guess we must absolutely trust what Taxil said when he agreed with you and absolutely distrust everything he said that disagreed with you... because confirmation bias.

if they are a hoax and the things in the hoax happen, how is that different from a plan?

I agree... so where is the evidence that anything in the Taxil Hoax ever happened?

No, that's not it. It was in the letter that he (supposedly) wrote from prison.

"The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the "agentur" of the "Illuminati" between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time."

Thoughts on that?

Some context

If so, that's not literally about Lucifer the Biblical character

If you told me this a year ago I would've called BS. I do understand now.

knowledge is power and all power has a potential dark side in how you use it.

Agreed. This is the same for any occulted information.