Trump and Sanders are the only ones speaking out against the TPP. Remember that when you enter the voting booth (if you still believe in voting.)

Trump has stated that he is against the TPP.

He's been talking about our bad trade deals for 30 fucking years.

What 'history' does he have of not following through on things?

Thank you for Trumping that dummy.

You can't stump the Trump.

No, he's a businessman trapped in the "prisoner's dilemma".

The system sucks and it traps him just like it screws us, but, as /u/Blobbybluebland has stated above, Trump has been against this for a long time.

He can't bring his manufacturing back to this country until the system is fixed, or his competitors will drive him out of business and the Americans he does hire get laid off.

Talking about them =/= him actually going through with them if/once he's president. See: all of our previous presidents/politicians.

He might not have but every politician before him has set a legacy.

The good news is he is not a politician.

What ever he is, he has more in common with a politician than he doesn't.

I'm not a trump supporter, but on this specific issue I think he's being truthful. Supporting the TPP would go directly against a his interests (mainly his property). So it's very unlikely he supports it. It would make him lose money, and power. I doubt he would support that.

Yet people think Sanders will somehow deliver on free college, free healthcare, free and legal marijuana and more money for less work in minimum wage jobs. Hilarious.

no he would rather just not even respond to your comment and let other dumb fucks like himself fall into the hive mind that sanders doesn't know what he's talking about.

He says a lot of shit he doesn't mean. Its called pandering

Trump has been saying since the 1980's He didn't just start saying it last year like Hillary Clinton.

I call it lying. Don't all politicians do this though? They all say a lot of shit... who knows what's true or not?

[deleted]

haha

No he didn't. He tried to do everything he said he would. But everything was blocked, veto'd, etc.

Yeah, just like he is against H1Bs.

And we all know politicians don't lie or change their opinions once voted in.

Consistent since 1988

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

Obviously it is important to believe everything Drumpf says because he, like George Washington, cannot tell a lie. I tell all my closest friends and relatives to, 'Always trust politicians,' and you should too.

Good news is Trump isn't a politician and has been speaking out against horrible foreign trade for 30 years!

Trump has been against free trade since literally when NAFTA was signed into law. He has been as constantly correct on this as Sanders for like 20 years. Trust me, he really is against it.

"Free trade" does not equal "TPP" There is a bait and switch going on, and when talking to friends, coworkers, etc we need to stress this point because some people will be in favor of it because they naively believe it represents free trade

Doesn't TPP restrict tariffs and other barriers to trade between participating nations? Isn't it precisely a free trade agreement?

My screwdriver can open paint cans. Does that make it a paint opener and not a screwdriver? No one is denying the TPP reduces some tariffs for some goods. That is the bait in the bait and switch. My concern is all the other provisions, particularly re: IP and the ISDS, which are not about lowering tariffs. This is a common move in Congress, bundle stuff that couldn't pass on its own with important bills like the budget

Trumps fortune is tied to real estate; he has a vested interest in this countrys success. Also, I think you're confusing globalism and complete loss of sovereignty with cheap labor.

When your competition is going to China to save money, you have to do the same or you go out of business. Don't hate the player - hate the game.

Sanders cannot be sold

Ergo, he can't be allowed to make the final spot to run for the top seat. The puppet that breaks strings isn't welcome on the main stage.

All Sanders has to do is wait for Clinton to get arrested to get the nomination. Hopefully the FBI finishes up on that investigation.

That may be true. But there isn't even the slimmest chance she will be arrested, or even go to trial. She's be more likely to drop out of the election for no reason what so ever, than to be arrested. We can't rely on that happening.

Sadly that's the case.

Lol! so much delusion in this thread, I feel like it's 2008 again.

The illusion of choice, thinking that the election will make a difference, it should quell the masses for a bit while the new puppet gets settled in and makes a new mess of the current situations. Let's have a war, that'll stimulate the economy! Who can the new president pick a one sided fight with that will hedge mutual funds and interests alike?

North Korea

I still think Trump and Sanders are both astroturf for Hillary.

Was Hillary running in 1988?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

"Donald Trump Teases a President Bid During a 1988 Oprah Show | The Oprah Winfrey Show | OWN" - Length: 00:03:10

No, why?

Did you watch the video?

You are so misinformed on this year's race it's unreal

I must not be understanding you correctly... it sounded like you actually believe that Donald Trump is... astroturfing for Hillary Clinton??

I mean, it's one thing to dislike Trump, or to oppose him becoming President. But, to delude oneself into believing--

oh right, whoops, forgot which sub I'm in

He didn't say that, the guy he replied to said that. It was u/thewiredworld

Not sure you have a brain either.

Bullshit.

Only trump wills ctually do anything about it. He has said he will ignore it and fight it if it is in place when he is elected.

If you are in busineess you can't do business here there is no business. There are no clothing manufacturers in the USA that do volume. That doenst mean you WANT it that way.

he moved all his manufacturing from the US to Mexico.

Source? I know during the last debatehe called out an air conditioner company for doing that

He's lying.

So, there's no source that Trump moved all his manufacturing to Mexico? Got it.

There is no source, OP was lying.

Sanders cannot be sold in this same manner

Hope and change 2.0 folks, happening right here in front of your eyes.

Sure, if you also consider an apple to be an orange.

http://i.imgur.com/ZjdbE34.png

Gotta love the implicit racism in this statement too. We're America, we should have better internet than those dirty Romanians!

I also love how so many people who lived under former communist/socialist governments are coming out of the woodwork to call his ass out. They know what it's really like living with socialism, not this fable that is sold to you Americans.

Well.. a couple things here to clarify for you:

1) That is not implicit racism, you are vastly reaching here for something where there is nothing. I'm not even sure how you implied that. In fact, to me, it sounds like you're the racist one for even mentioning "...dirty Romanians!"

2) There are also people in those same countries calling our current methodology out. Who is right? Certainly you nor I know better, as much as we like to think we do.

3) Do you know what socialism is? America as it currently stands is 80% socialist under the guise of a "free, capitalist society." If you believe this, you have fallen for the media's lies. Peep this list and tell me what socialist programs you do not agree with: https://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/3/29/1078852/-75-Ways-Socialism-Has-Improved-America

I know that Hillary can't be trusted with the bill, but Drumpf's position on it is something that I haven't considered. If he were to flip-flop on his position, I'd laugh, and I'd also be somewhat scared... as in, more scared than I already am about him.

He's a business man, he did what he had to for profit. He's the only one with the knowledge and balls to stand up to globalists. Get behind him or don't complain.

He doesn't need money. They have absolutely no way to bribe him.

He'd tell them to fuck off anyway. He already does.

Source?

Good thing we have pure honest politicians to save us.

Or great speaking fees, or both!

He doesn't need more money. He's a real Patriot who loves America. Embrace him and he will make you great again

Yeah! Such a patriot he will renew the Patriot Act and expand the NSA!

And there's a better alternative? Bennie just swore on national TV to never deport anyone at the demand of a fucking TV host. What a traitorous bitch.

we have to do something about these globalist politicians!

does nothing about globalist politicians

You're making your bed

There's a difference between running a business and running a country, in not sure why that's so hard to understand

Sold out to who, politically? Who has bought him?

... Really because he isn't accepting business donors for his campaign? Businessmen sell things. That's what they do, I'm not sure what's confusing here?

Are you serious? Do are you not literally posting threads complaining that our current politicians sell the country to the highest bidder?

Donald is richer than the Senate, the house, and the executive branch combined. He's 69 years old. He doesn't need money. He wants a legacy. He wants to be remembered as the man who made his country great again.

Because that's what businessmen do? What does hoarding mean? "not give away?"

Has any politician ever gotten richer than trump by selling out? Fuck no. Politicians are CHEAP. hell I can buy I congressman's vote for about 5 grand, usually cheaper. Presidents run in the tens of millions. Oh well. That's nothing to trump. He doesn't want that chump change. He wants to MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN

He is rich and powerful.

We've already been sold out. Trump is gonna buy us back.

It's OK if you don't believe me, you'll see starting January 2017 anyway :)

Nice meme I guess but you haven't made any counter points champ. I'll be happy in 2017, not because I'm vindicated, but because I'll be basking in the glory

Penis

That's good info to know!

+1 for trolling

The TPP is some evil shit. Everyone needs to wage total war against anyone who supports it, or votes for it.

The worse ones are the people who say they are against it but are actually for it, like Cruz and Clinton. Fucking traitors (In Clinton's case, Cruz isn't American so I guess he can't technically be a traitor).

Hey, man. We need some of that nice Comcast/AT&T/Time Warner money!

How?

No, TPP is not evil. TPP contains one thing - a so called ISDS - that might be harmful. The problem with all the conspiracy theories about ISDSs are that they are very, very, rarely used. For example: Denmark has 40 free trade agreements containing an ISDS. But the state of Denmark has never actually been sued because of the ISDS. I'm not saying that the TPP can't be harmful. But it will not be the end of the world, and we don't need Arnold Schwarzenegger to save us from the evil corporations as a result of the free trade agreement.

This reminds me of so many scifi movies where the future is bleak and dismal all because the corporations became the government. 10 yrs from now the world will wish they could come back to right now and stop the TPP from happening.

Where's the Terminator when you need him?

I don't remember the part in the movie where the Terminator dismantled an oppressive global trade deal.

...cutscene

It's always the best stuff that ends up on the editing room floor.

Even if we succeed with the TPP,

unless we get money out of politics, it's gonna be an endless fight.

Remember sopa?

The image of Bladerunner for the United States is only delayed to 2026. :(

that actually sounds pretty good.

Thats the first movie that came to mind =)

Corporations have been the government for many, many years. America is less of a country and more of a giant business.

Or maybe a unified earth, after lengthy teething problems, is in our best interests.

We need a unified earth, but not like this. Not corporate earth.

lol, right? I don't think anyone is against everyone kicking ass together…

We're against the fuckwits that want to take credit for our work. If I call myself the leader of earth and all my friends agree does mean that everything everyone did is to my credit? Good job, plebs, way to make me look good! (He said to his various finger puppets)

I'm very afraid. We're stupid enough to consider a Clinton in the Whitehouse, remember Nafta? Anyone? If you do anything in the next few months fight the TPPiece of Shit!

Someobe gotta take one for the future of humanity and just assassianate shillary.

Not even joking.

Your comment will not be amplified here and is, frankly, unwise.

Im not an us citizen.

The US as "Empire Under Demolition" is a dangerous place, like an injured bear, she doesn't know she is bleeding, the many small cuts were self imposed, hollowing out her own economy, destroying jobs and destroying her core strength: her forgotten citizen. Weakened she does what the monied elite tell her to do, like passing the TTIPiece of Shit and wreaking war the globe over AND sending goon squads to every country in the world, including yours.

Like that would make a difference. Also the martyr penalty on that would be severe.

Face it: nothing you can do will have any lasting effect on any of this. We all fucked. The more you dwell on it the more bitter and upset you'll become. Let it go; embrace your impotence.

Yikes -- can you imagine having a Hillary Clinton day every year where the clueless masses of children in 40 years all celebrate "democratic values" on the anniversary or her death because she was such a "champion for freedom"?

Yeah fuck! Shillary Day .. ^fuck

They killed MLK and named a day after him

they killed JFK and named an airport after him

I wonder what they'd name after shillary?

United States of Hillary.

Ouch. That would really hurt.

95% of Americans have no idea what it is, or would even care, as long as their cable works and they have plenty of 'meds'. Fuck me in the knee.

It is how I feel. I urge you to talk to random people about the TPP, then bask in their blank stares.

I've talked to random people about the TPP. Can confirm, no one knows anything about it.

Spreading an idea at the beginning will be like that, it takes time to get out there. If you want this to actually be talked about and people to give a shit, it needs to trend, it needs to be shared. You are by default going to run into a lot of people that don't know about it, that give you those blank stares. That's fine, you encounter that fairly often in waking life and it's not a big deal then, so why make it one now? If you let a normal reaction turn you off talking about an incredibly important idea, that the TPP is a horrendous thing, you accept your fate and lie down before the corporate steamroller that's about to hit us.

You've heard of the bystander effect right? Where many people see an emergency situation and nobody calls for help because people assume somebody else would do it? I think some version of that happens at the societal social awareness level; how well informed people are, how badly misinformed, willingness to listen to new ideas, openness to discussion, stubbornness and deep set beliefs, popular pressure, ... all of these are different forms of distraction that contribute to the current societal bystander effect going on many issues, and currently the TPP. Someone's got to pick up the phone and dial for help, otherwise they consign themselves to their non-intervening fate. Same issue with this authoritarian socioeconomic emergency that's looming in the next couple months, though at this scale it's going to take multiple phone calls, multiple voices to gather the help needed to address it. We can't afford to NOT have another voice.

Your business is your own and only you can choose whether or not you will talk to people about it, (even if many times they have no clue what it is) however I hope that you might reconsider.

Words written truly right.

I'm a college student and mentioned it to a classmate, and they speculated that it had to deal with homosexual marriage rights.

'It's gonna happen anyway, what can we do'. Well...yes. The world is run by the bankers and MIC leaders.

So true. When I was still a truck driver over the road I tried talking to people with a sense of urgency about it but nobody even knows about it let alone what it is. They just look at You automatically like You're some hysterical conspiracy theorist.

I fucking hate when I inform them about it and as soon as I do, suddenly they play the Serious-Mr-Politics card and go "that sounds like one side of the issue"

ME: "Well, it does do a few good things for the economy but there is some devious stuff inside it."

Oh, it's good for the economy? Well, I like it!

Me: "No, no, no. You have to understand--"

"If it were so bad, 0bama wouldn't sign it! He's the President! Stop listening to AM hate-radio and get a real job, boy."

Me: "You are a lost cause. Uninformed."

"Typical right wing-nut crap! Stop listening to O'Reilly, he is a tool of the Koch Brothers! Bernie is the only one not beholden to the banks, don't you GET IT MAN???" rolls doober, hands shaking with indignation

(Smashes head on nearest concrete surface)

"WE NEED SOME MUSCLE OVER HERE! HE TRIED TO ATTACK ME, AND SLIPPED!" files lawsuit, wins 10 million dollars, DonutDeflector jumps from Hoover Dam

T'was a sad day in Whoville.

u wot m8?

This is what "media" has done to us. No matter the issue, they always have to pretend to present both sides.

Is the sky blue? Well, let's give equal time to the person who doesn't think so...

People have been conditioned to respond this way to anything "political" because the whole theatrical, dialectical system we have is designed to present two and only two sides, force everyone to choose one of them, and then argue incessantly with the other side and never look for common ground.

stop being so melodramatic

Yes, please keep talking to random people! We're not informed, people like you help people like me learn about shit like this! I literally googled reddit conspiracy tonight because I am so tired of seeing "the election" on yahoo. I just see headlines when I go to check my mail, and I thought to myself tonight, fuck it, I might as well just see what's on reddit conspiracy (I've never been to this page before) and I clicked on this thread immediately. People who know (like you) do make a difference. Please keep talking about this

You're shadowbanned my friend. You should contact the admins and ask them why.

Umm, but he's right.

Figures they'll do it right before a big election. Just like the bank bailouts.

Remember when the new world order was just a right wing conspiracy theory ?

Just proves how much the left wing will subvert the truth for agenda. When Bush was in office, all they ever talked about was jet fuel and steel beams, wars for oil, and other conspiracy theories. Once Obama was elected, they stopped caring about searching for "the truth" in fear of hurting their guy. When the emails first came out against Hillary, they said it was all a "right wing conspiracy theory" against Hillary, in fear of it hurting her presidential chances. Now that Bernie is here, it's suddenly "truth" again, mostly to spite Hillary.

MMW, if Bernie wins the presidency, everything against him will suddenly be "right wing conspiracy" again and this sub will shrink a bit. If Trump wins, it will suddenly be considered "truth" and this sub will grow.

Yep, TRUMP 2016

It will pass. Do you think it was coincidence it has cruised through every check and balance there is? The people who make decisions have decided this a long time ago. Doesn't really matter, I've got Entertainment to keep me busy!

The voice of every American lol...like who cares, I have netflix shows to watch!!

What can you do? and I ask seriously. It seems like there's at least 100 online petitions to stop this thing, which is bittersweet. It shows massive interest but it's not consolidated. When I was younger I used to think calling your representative was stupid, but with how far we've drifted from actual communication, it's stating to feel like it might help.

I received a hard copy letter in the mail from my Congressman asking me to speak out against this issue.

1st we get this, then we get the 3 seashells, I am all for it

Will there finally be an explanation on how to use the seashells?

everyone already knows man

As far as I'm concerned I think it's a done deal. Even if you call every day, all day, hundreds of times. Even if you vote really hard. We get a vote, but voting is about making you buy into the system, not giving you power. Your speaks are drowned out by the millions in cash that they get for voting "right".

There was also the bank bailout in 2008 when calls to legislators were, by some accounts, 100 to 1 against. Of course they passed it anyway.

Well what else can you do? and I ask seriously.

Doing nothing is the worst thing you can do, and I say this from my own experience of doing nothing for too long. Even if your voice is never heard, never raising it in the first place is far worse.

Have you called yet? I will be tomorrow, even it is only to be a nuisance

What a weird, dystopian nightmare we're headed to if this thing gets passed.

Yeah but remember we get to travel amongst the stars. Or the rich people do.

Written in secret by corporations, for corporations, TTP is the final nail in the coffin of our democratic republic. Say hello to Oligarchy.

Done deal. Both parties are party to the fix.

the TPP will accelerate 'the plan', i expect noise to be made but i don't know if that will be enough to delay or stop it. i've signed several petitions already & have mentioned it to others, a lot of people aren't aware of it.

Same with me here. I'm glad my senators and reps are not on board with the TTP. They seem to also be against all the crap that would totally wreak the internet and civil freedoms.

People really want to hate on Trump, but he's the only candidate who wants to stop the TPP. His stance on this is why all those CEO'S and corporation owners just had a meeting in Georgia to discuss how to stop him. Its why the media is attacking him so much.

Hey Mag, I've been telling everyone I know and they DGAF. Its pretty maddening. Best response I get is, "It won't affect me".

Indeed

Can someone give me a link describing what this actually is?

We need to cut it out with this one world government / food supplier / whatever it is next.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/498m73/why_is_glyphosate_sprayed_on_crops_right_before/d0qx5be

https://jonrappoport.wordpress.com/2016/03/09/the-individual-vs-the-psyop-called-reality/

Vote Bernie Sanders even if you have to write him in. He's the only candidate that opposes or even mentions the TPP

Ummm, Trump is against it.. Trump also wants to audit the Federal Reserve, something Bernie chickened out of when he announced his candidacy.

To be fair, neither of them can touch the fed

Yes, sure Trump is against it. Trump is also Santa Claus.

I never knew that

Join a union people!

Those fuckers in government and corporations would lie through their teeth to you so fucking hard to get that piece of shit agreement through.

"Oh! Its going to create so many jobs that wow!"

"Our economy is going to be like a rocketship! Growth like you would not believe!"

"Consumers would win every time due to cheaper goods"

"Its going to be cheaper for your business to sell your goods"

Holy smokes I am so star struck Batman, where do I sign!?

FTA's are corporate fuckery. Tariffs and duties are meant to protect industry that is to say from dem gawd dayum cheapo snatchers past Cleveland! How is gud ol' Joe gonna get dat market dough..?

Remember this FTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XngNF-sAmtQ

I came here to realize none of us is doing something about this and this is a real issue to not do anything about it. All I see posts about how bad this would be, bla and bla.

We should start using social media/contact popular web pages that might share this and so on, we really should start spreeding this to let people realize the problem with all of this, I bet nobdy would accept this if they know about it.

Hey, a lot of people are active on social media, the messages are getting out there but its not enough.

We need to come together as some sort of organization, all of the groups I have found always focus too much on other issues when the real issue should be less (or no) government, more free will and better and more humane earth with no hidden agendas, but it's hard to find.

Thats my point, there are a lot of people out there trying to spread the issues with this, but the fact is I barely read anything about this.

Remember when we found out what SOPA was few years ago and people tried to stop it? That was a huge campaing by everyone, but with this one as you said: all of the groups I have found always focus too much on other issues when the real issue should be less (or no) government, you are right, they are bussy with other things right now and forget that this stuff its pretty big.

I could start using some hashtag or some stuff like that, but I barely have good connections on social media.

Warning against these trade deals since 1988

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPs17_AkTI

"Donald Trump Teases a President Bid During a 1988 Oprah Show | The Oprah Winfrey Show | OWN" - Length: 00:03:10

the new world order

This is pretty much the worst thing ever. For me it is the most important issue in this election and serves as my primary litmus test.

This simply cannot be allowed to happen. Even if it is in place I would want the next president to completely renege on the deal and throw it out.

It would override the constitution and trample all over what freedoms we have left, effectively ending whatever small semblance of sovereignty we still have.

The scary thing is that will pass without much or a debate or even being read by the Senators. Rubio and Cruz are for it. Hilary is for it. Rubio said he wouldn't even try to read it.

We all know its going through. We are serfs and pretty much take everything dry. Were all fucked and it will get worse. Everyone is alreadt monetized and suffering from learned helplessness.

what is learned helplessness?

The middle class disappeared because we chose cheap overseas goods over doing the work ourselves. America literally got fat and lazy, and now they don't believe in themselves to create the change they want to see.

How do regular citizens of countries affected by this (I'm Canadian) go about fighting something like this?

Hey, are you in Ontario? Looking for some people to start something here.

Nah. I'm in BC

Only Trump has come out strongly against the TPP AND NAFTA . He says it will be a disasater and he will ignore it and renogtiate it if it is in place when he is president. (bernie is against it but won't fight it if it is in place if he is elected)

.its a complete abandonment of national sovereignty.

You can speak up all you like. This is a done deal and we are totally fucked.

I encourage you to fight it with all your might. But, I predict that it will pass. They have been trying to get this for decades. They will not let it go now.

Has anyone bundled together all the resources and people involved so we can have an organized attempt at stopping / slowing this thing up.

With my lack of time all I come up with are bits a pieces that seem to change often.

Regular Americans--by that I mean 'citizens'--prior to 9/11 have done a lot of good for the world. And tried, and failed.

From the perspective of foreign countries and those who disagree with aggressive foreign policies--like TPP--lots of shitty things also, in the name of cold war paranoia, world chessboardism, crytofascist assassinations--that's the expression of the 'shadow' pathos of american imperialism. We the 'citizens' have nothing to do with these things, except we have to incur the karma, the guilt and ultimately the accountability. Which is unfair, because we have about the same amount of control over this situation as the blameless Muslim goat herder in Afghanistan has over a drone strike against his family in the case of mistaken identity.

My point is we--the lumpen american working class, the middle class, educated people frozen out of the ruling class--are some of the most generous people in the world, jumping at the chance to try to help the rest of the world.

Well now, 2016, we're under attack. By our own government, it seems. We have the most corrupt, malificent government in our history. My question is this: Where the hell is the rest of the world coming to help us--now--in our darkest hour?

If we don't get some help from other countries quick, they lose all rights to call americans pussies because they've done nothing either and so whatever happens to us in the US will happen to them almost immediately thereafter. Here's to being the canary in the TPP coalmine.

You can try as you will, but there's not going to be stopping in from within, by holding up posters on sticks, or blocking traffic or sleeping in a park downtown, or spending your money giving to pacs or websties or even complaining about it on reddit. None of these things work. Sorry. Buy land and farm, or move to an ecovillage in peru. Time to opt out from the shit global trip

Reminder: 55 days until congress can try to pass the TPP.

Some information for you. I am personally against the TPP, and I would not like to see it go through. That being said I tried to find non biased information. It's important for everyone to make up their own opinions with the information presented. So, each link comes from a different stand point.

In order from top to bottom: Against, Middle Ground/Divided, For, and then a link on how it could effect Canada. I invite you to do your own research as well. Share the information you have. I've said it before, and I will say it again; know what is going on in your Country, understand how it will (and it will) effect you.

http://www.ase.tufts.edu/gdae/policy_research/TTIP_simulations.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/02/business/international/economists-sharply-split-over-trade-deal-effects.html

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2016/03/09-tpp-latin-america-caribbean-estevadeordal

http://canadians.org/tpp That's what i posted as my facebook status. I hope to at least cause awareness.

It's basically the USA holding the world hostage. "We got the military, and now we'll have your economy". While the idiots keep enrolling into the death machine of the military because they think they're 'helping' people.

It will pass. No doubt in my mind. The corporations that rule the world will win. No way around it.

what have you done to stop it? and I ask not in a challenging matter, but because I'm legitimately wondering. Anything you do to try and stop it is better than doing n o t h i n g.

No we should try. I'm just giving my honest opinion. I fucking hate it just as much as you do.

Congress won't read it. Too busy. ITC will proofread and we will figure out where to steer the conversation

CISPA already passed in-spit of all the petitions and shit. if i does or doesn't pass, there is simply nothing we can do about it as the system stands.

not telling anyone to stop trying, just meant to help those who hit burn out

It will pass and there is nothing we can do about it. The vast majority of the population of this country is, quite frankly, stupid and distracted.

Good luck with that. The EU can't even enforce the Geneva conventions in their member states.

They don't care about the public being angry at them. They'll pass it when we least expect it, most likely right after a mass shooting, celebrity scandal/death, or natural disaster, while we're most distracted.

nationalism is dead, its all about globalism now.

look at china, their toxic shit is reaching japan right now. we do need to control the activities of countries so that we can ensure that none of them would hurt the others.

any country can just lower their environmental safety levels to allow corporations within to pass even at the cost of unreasonable global damage. this prevents that as you cant just bribe your country.

Well you Americans got all the guns and this is clearly "Anti-freedom" I await you all putting your money where your mouths are...

I have not been thoroughly convinced this is a Bad thing yet (and down goes the karma ball) but seriously, if you are so pationate about the pure 'evil' of this one thing convince me it is worth getting choked up about and maybe you have my attention.

(I have actually read into the deal and I know pros and cons about it, use your debating skills and CONVINCE me it's so Bad)

Whoever is pushing bill should be hung for treason.

So all you can tell me in that go is hearsay and a half-ass remark about the court system.

Sorry, gonna have to dig a little deeper than that if you want to convince anyone of your claim. Focus your argument just on your third point and give it another go... Like I said, if your passionate about it, than be Informed about it! Tell me more in detail about the court system overruling with legitimate possible examples and outcomes that would show proof to its wrongness.

(I ignored the part about shipping jobs overseas for several reasons, but let's focus on one thing at a time. I'll let you chose which one you want to discuss)

read it my thoughts:

I agree that the way that this part of the trade deal is presented in this article is very concerning. For example: being able to sue a government if they are passing a law that violates an agreement made in a deal that is connected to a system with ISDS.

A court having that kind of ability is intimidating but I would like to bring up a few points:

1. This is assuming the worst of man-kind and a very pessimistic outlook on corporations and how they will react while conducting court. A. Just because a company sues does not mean they will win. Have some faith in a system that is made on the belief of improving the living standards and betterment of society....

That last sentence is a half-ass remark because I have to start work, but I wanted to complete a point >.<' I'll get back to this afterword work.

Shill.

Or idiot.

Oh, and your very insightful!

Sorry, I forgot that this is Reddit and half the users are incapable of extended thought. I am surprised you used a word as complex as 'shill'.

I am sorry if you can't recognize a genuine conversation between people.

The TPP isn't that crazy. It's just big. I'm not saying it isn't damaging, but it doesn't create a new super government or anything.

Seriously you are the worse shill ever.

I guess not being a shill would make me the worst shill ever?

Just read the thing. Again, it's definitely damaging. Job losses will be real, and there's certainly big concessions to corporate power. But it's not a new hyper shadow government.

The banking sector would never allow that.

Yup. It's language that already exists in NAFTA. Organizations have the right to dispute. It's nit the greatest method ever, but it isn't some clandestine shadow government that overrules our entire legal system. There are laws the TPP explicitly states it cannot impact, such as welfare laws or environmental laws.

Again, I'm against the TPP because it results in a net loss for everyone who isn't a billionaire. That's worth talking about. But pretending like the TPP creates a new government, when it doesn't, undercuts your legitimate concerns.

Trump has stated that he is against the TPP.

he moved all his manufacturing from the US to Mexico.

Source? I know during the last debatehe called out an air conditioner company for doing that

When your competition is going to China to save money, you have to do the same or you go out of business. Don't hate the player - hate the game.

Sanders cannot be sold

Ergo, he can't be allowed to make the final spot to run for the top seat. The puppet that breaks strings isn't welcome on the main stage.

Trump has been against free trade since literally when NAFTA was signed into law. He has been as constantly correct on this as Sanders for like 20 years. Trust me, he really is against it.

He's a business man, he did what he had to for profit. He's the only one with the knowledge and balls to stand up to globalists. Get behind him or don't complain.

Trumps fortune is tied to real estate; he has a vested interest in this countrys success. Also, I think you're confusing globalism and complete loss of sovereignty with cheap labor.

He might not have but every politician before him has set a legacy.

Bullshit.

Only trump wills ctually do anything about it. He has said he will ignore it and fight it if it is in place when he is elected.

If you are in busineess you can't do business here there is no business. There are no clothing manufacturers in the USA that do volume. That doenst mean you WANT it that way.

Thank you for Trumping that dummy.

"Donald Trump Teases a President Bid During a 1988 Oprah Show | The Oprah Winfrey Show | OWN" - Length: 00:03:10

Sanders cannot be sold in this same manner

Hope and change 2.0 folks, happening right here in front of your eyes.

Talking about them =/= him actually going through with them if/once he's president. See: all of our previous presidents/politicians.

I know that Hillary can't be trusted with the bill, but Drumpf's position on it is something that I haven't considered. If he were to flip-flop on his position, I'd laugh, and I'd also be somewhat scared... as in, more scared than I already am about him.