Agreed. Something has changed in the last week that is breaking character even for the decline that has been happening the last few years. It feels like it died. It feels filled with garbage, and the comments are mostly the same. I feel like everyone has abandoned it, at least until the election is over.

I still see a lot of my favorite users here. We are not broken, but we are being spread apart by trolls. You just have to do a little extra sifting, that's all.

This is /r/conspiracy. People hate us. Don't trust the upvotes and periodically check the new queue.

Along those lines, OP says:

I've messaged five of the moderators about this issue and not a single response.

So far none of my co-mods knows who he messaged. Looks like it's untrue. Fishy.

He picked a decent name to blend in with. "Dodgec24"

lol "I'm just a regular dude...I swear."

The lame car named "gang?" Pro GMO, rabid. Unrelenting. Dumb.

Optimism :) I like your thinking.

I can tell you I'm not going. Not to voat, not into my prepper spider hole.

Glad to hear that the posters are staying around. I don't know where else id go. I just lurk usually.

There are a lot more Trump and Hillary supporters everywhere here as well lately. And a ton of post mocking Bernie supporters for supporting him. They reminded me of the same people who attacked obama on digg in 2008; mainly because how heavy handed they are in some threads (page is filled with like minded post. Everything else is down voted unnecessarily)

It'll all blow over after Trump wins in November. 9 more months of having a shitty, mostly trump/burnie/shillary posts. Stay patient my friends

I'm afraid Hillary is going to win. If these nsa / fbi people don't have a spine by now, they won't ever have one. There are stories about nsa / fbi wanting to prosecute her but it's either political theater or obama is blocking them or both. They've done nothing about 9/11 or the joke of isis, or the violations of their own laws. THey are cowards and they are going to keep cowarding until Hillary is in office. Keep in mind, Obama is helping her win this.

In the case there is some kind of magical, unlikely coup within our intelligence community that literally betrays potus, then it will be Bernie or Trump--a lot of these people think Trump will be a dangerous question mark and they will be a lot more willing to put a person with decades of experience within the system in charge of nuclear codes than some brassy, bullying businessperson, even if they don't like a few aspects of their politics

Hillary was probably promised the 2016 presidency at Bilderberg 2008:

• http://wonkette.com/400268/hillary-baracks-very-special-bilderberg-date-night

• http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2008/060608_hillary_obama.htm

Its a bit ironic that you're even having this conversation (in this particular sub, no less) considering that the guy you want to win thinks places such as this one should be censored or 'shut down'....

I feel like everyone has abandoned it, at least until the election is over.

Key phrase there.

And by the way, congrats on maintaining an account for a whole year! :)

Your attitude

Jk ur a good user. ....

yet, if you dare call out an obvious shill you get warned/banned Im with ya op...

If we didn't have that policy then the "shills" (mostly just conceited, lonely trolls) would happily use that very technique to derail every thread and turn this sub into a real shit show.

This isn't very complicated...

Heh, I disagree. I think unless you really are a shill, there's really no reason to get upset. Usually those who get upset about be called a shill are in a likelihood a shill. Why not just let the community decide if they agree or not with the accusation? The people here are typically pretty good at sniffing out the shills, and should be allowed to call it like they see it IMO.

The people here are typically pretty good at sniffing out the shills

No, no they are not.

These days it's merely a word used by those who can't comprehend that someone would disagree or hold views contrary to theirs.

Shills forget it's their relentless, day in and day out 'disagreements' that give them away.

I'm new to this platform, but I've experienced this behaviour elsewhere online.

Shills forget it's their relentless, day in and day out 'disagreements' that give them away.

You mean someone who is consistent in their disbelief must be a shill?

LOL.

That is a good point. It's hard to decouple a shill from someone with a strong opinion on something. For example, I must be an astroturfer for bernie because I'm a 'berniebot', always supporting him--lol.

My acid test for shillhood is different from that. The test is whether or not a person consistently 'justifies the system'.

Because if you are here then you already have a belief that the system is corrupt. Therefore, if someone consistently denies conspiracies, or defends Obama, or defends the NSA, or defends congress, or defends the status quo, or defends monsanto or defends GMOs; or defends Israel or anti-intellectualism/Nazism/nationalism/militarism (fascism / cryptofascism), then you are a shill for certain; because the facts of their wronghood have been exposed and are now irrefutable, so taking an opinion that willfully ignores reality which also serves to justify the oppressors is the hallmark of a shill.

Richard Gage (AE911 Truth movement) had a piece on how to identify a pseudoskeptic, and in an oblique way, he is describing a person exhibiting shill-like tendencies:

Because if you are here then you already have a belief that the system is corrupt. Therefore, if someone consistently denies conspiracies... then you are a shill for certain;

Guess I'm a shill then, because almost all my posts here are "denialist". Except, no, I'm not - that's actually because I'm not going to argue with posts discussing the conspiracies which I accept e.g. MKULTRA or HAARP. I read 'em, upvote and move on to taking down another Sandy Hoaxer or whatever. [I also have a particular user for this sub, due to the stalkerish tendencies of some here]

Richard Gage (AE911 Truth movement) had a piece on how to identify a pseudoskeptic, and in an oblique way, he is describing a person exhibiting shill-like tendencies:

Except a lot of these, again, apply to proponents of conspiracies equally as well "Double standards in the application of criticism", for example, we see all time. MSM? Lies! Russia Today or FARS? Unvarnished truth! And I trust I need not point at "Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments" or "Presenting insufficient evidence or proof"?

To me, I don't really care about a person's motives. You can very rarely tell these with any degree of accuracy in an online forum, and in the long run, it doesn't matter. Facts are facts, and that's what both proponents and critics should be arguing about.

'noid overly much?

Just because you're paranoid... Etc.

Those who tend to act over concerned with being labeled a shill, tend to be the types who have a reason to worry.

Most "normals" simply don't care. They don't have a reason to.

My acid test for...

Just FYI I think you mean 'litmus test'.

'Shill' has become a loaded word, especially here. It's lost most of its meaning, which was vague in the first place.

There's paid and unpaid shills. I prefer to call the people you describe 'authoritarians' rather than 'shills' because it's less confusing, less emotionally charged and doesn't suggest that you have unshared evidence of malfeasance.

Ask Monsanto, Kevin Folta, or the numerous online users who manipulate Monsanto's message.

You'll pardon me if I don't take an article with the headline, "Academia’s biotech prostitutes exposed" as an unbiased report on the matter.

That aside, I've no doubt Monsanto do have their PR staff working forums - but there are plenty of non-employees who genuinely and consistently do support GMO's. I'm neutral, personally, but I'd say that to dismiss opponents, regardless of the topic, as "shills" seems basically to admit you've lost the argument before it begins.

I'm perpetually amused by things like "The Gentleperson's Guide to Forum Spies", because I see most of the tactics it describes being used by conspiracy advocates, every bit as much. It's not a guide to spies, it's a guidebook to virtually any online discussion.

I don't take an article with the headline, "Academia’s biotech prostitutes exposed" as an unbiased report on the matter.

How about this one? Which articles will you accept as proof that Monsanto has been astroturfing online social media?

http://www.naturalnews.com/051129_Kevin_Folta_false_claims_violence.html

Natural News? Again, not a credible and unbiased source, being a well-known haven for anti-vaxxers, any Big Pharma conspiracy ever conceived, and much dubious medical nonsense.

So, no. Still not credible. Feel free to keep trying - though you would also need to show me how Monsanto are doing things other big companies' aren't. It's what PR departments do.

Which articles will you accept as proof that Monsanto has been astroturfing online social media?

Are you going to answer this question. Even if you answer this question, will you continue to ignore the fact that Monsanto paid Kevin Folta $25,000.00 to promote GMO?

the fact that Monsanto paid Kevin Folta $25,000.00 to promote GMO?

"Fact"?

Here's the reality

Florida had received a $25,000 grant from Monsanto to be used at the university's discretion which was earmarked for an established biotechnology communication program. Folta submitted expense reports to use the biotechnology communication fund to pay for travel expenses, a small projector, coffee and food. Most of these expenses had since been reimbursed to the fund with honoraria from his talks and private donations from individuals and small businesses, while none of the donation from Monsanto was used.

So... What evidence do you have he received 25000 bucks?

I have the words of Kevin Folta, who promised 'a solid return on the investment' :

Discredited Univ. of Florida professor promised 'a solid return on the investment' just two days before receiving $25K from Monsanto

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/051184_Monsanto_money_Kevin_Folta_academic_corruption.html#ixzz43ZKXTlbh

Before you discredit the source, please go find Kevin and tell him to withdraw his emails which catch him promising a 'solid return on the ($25,000.00) investment.'

LOL. So, after crawling through thousands of emails, that's your "smoking gun"? Desperate, but not serious!

You've completely failed to show that Folta's opinions or research were in any way the result of the money. And it's not as if, say, the organic industry funds scientists. Oh, hang on. They do. And, worse, just last month it was revealed the resulting studies miraculously come to the false conclusion organic is better.

Care to show me the "Natural News" piece decrying these "whores" and calling them "discredited"? Or is there a massive double standard of hypocrisy in your outrage at big, bad Monsanto funding researchers?

Before you discredit the source, please go find Kevin and tell him to withdraw his emails which catch him promising a 'solid return on the ($25,000.00) investment.'

Care to show me the "Natural News" piece decrying these "whores" and calling them "discredited"? Or is there a massive double standard of hypocrisy in your outrage at big, bad Monsanto funding researchers?

See, I can repeat myself too!

Why did Kevin Folta promise a 'solid return on the ($25,000.00) investment?'

You use repetition to obfuscate and ignore.

I use repetition to show you're not here to have a serious debate. It works very well. Have a great day sir!

Feel free to keep trying

Feel free to do your own homework. I've provided 2 sources that show Kevin Folta accepted money from Monsanto then lied about his ties to Monsanto.

Are you denying Kevin Folta accepted money from Monsanto?

Maybe not a shill, but a good old fashioned counter-revolutionary of the sort that the Stasi and the Khmer Rouge identified and eliminated so effectively. Pol Pot's brilliant insight that counter-revolutionaries can be identified not only by their dissenting opinions, but by the fact that many wear glasses, could be put to good use here if we could get some pictures of commenters.

no someone who posts hundreds of replies a day is, simple really

Some people are just contrarians. They enjoy debating people as a pastime, and so long as they can follow the sidebar rules then they're as welcome as anyone else to participate here.

And that's just what it is a word. I really don't mind at all if someone calls me a shill, none whatsoever.

Would you mind if people told others to ignore you?

Or if people ignored any discussion points you raise and went after you personally (ad hominem) instead?

Again, these are really just words, nothing more. How you react to words is totally dependent on you and nobody else. I personally don't think that having people tell others to ignore me, or personally attack me would phase me in the slightest.

Yet the fact you submit content tells me otherwise.

Submitting content tells me you want to be heard, so I reckon you'd be a bit miffed if people went around telling others to ignore you or discrediting you.

Heh, perhaps. It's never happened to me, so I can only theorize what my reaction would be. I know for sure though, because it has happened before, that I would not be bothered in the slightest if someone called me a shill.

Not all the time, but most of the time it's when people start calling me names, or getting mad at me, I know I'm making a difference.

yep.

Wtf, a voice of reason in a sea of stupidity.

As you were already given a final warning for rule 10 violations you might want to watch how you refer to the majority of users in future.

I don't know this user's history, but its unclear to me that this comment was a Rule 10 violation. The rule prohibits attacks on "this sub, users or mods thereof", but the "sea of stupidity" reference appears to me to refer not to the users but to the comments suggesting that the sub is overrun with shills who can be identified by the opinions they express alone. I'm not terribly impressed with this idea myself.

Suggesting that other commenters' ideas are stupid or naive isn't good manners, but it is pretty commonplace on this sub. If you are going to ban people for that, I can put together an excel spreadsheet of another 40 or 50 people to add to the ban list.

This warning was more of a heads-up as the warning had been made after this comment and in the same thread, if they wish to continue participating here in good faith from now on I see no reason to ban them.

Thank for your reply. In general I"m quite impressed with the way the sub is run, and I didn't mean that as a general criticism.

No worries, polite criticism wouldn't be a problem anyway.

Constructive criticism is always welcome.

If that's the case, guess who's swimming around in stupid?

I think unless you really are a shill, there's really no reason to get upset. Usually those who get upset about be called a shill are in a likelihood a shill.

People of all stripes get upset when they're falsely accused of being something unflattering. It's ridiculous to think that that's somehow a confirmation of the unproven (and virtually unprovable) accusations.

Why not just let the community decide if they agree or not with the accusation?

Because mob-justice has a horrible track record for accuracy. Not to mention that it can be (and has been) maliciously used by actual "shills" to stigmatize anyone they dislike.

All i need to do is point you to the /r/conspiracyAMA sub where the TMoR trolls completely derailed everything.

How did you not know who you were getting in bed with?

because unlike seemingly many of the people in tune with reddit infighting, i had other real life important things to worry about.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone on reddit knows about the TMoR versus Conspiracy beef

bingo

So to protect the sub from shills you protect the shills? Orwell can ya hear me>

Meh. Your desire for "psychic" justice is both barbaric and irrational.

Psychic justice..lmfao Id love to see you define that. ANd calling a spade a spade is not barbaric or irrational, and it's actually the opposite of the latter.

Psychic justice..lmfao Id love to see you define that.

Psychic justice - The delusion that one is psychic and can know who is a "shill" and then bring the hammer down on them.

ANd calling a spade a spade is not barbaric or irrational, and it's actually the opposite of the latter.

History shows the opposite. Look at totalitarian regimes that mass-murder whole villages of 'shills' because they are deemed a 'spade' for vague and malleable reasons. Abuse of power and corruption like that isn't tolerated among the mod team here. That's more akin to the thought-policemen who run places like /r/News who have massive lists of users to auto-censor with their bot.

Yes the thought police are anti censorship, brilliant retort.

And if you can't spot a shill, than you should seriously be ashamed it's not a difficult series of observations to make.

Yes the thought police are anti censorship, brilliant retort.

You misread.

Also I happen to have a pretty good reputation for undermining "shills" and trolls. Do some research if you care.

You on the other hand have made at least two insult-laden "shill" accusations in your very short time on this sub. Methinks you have an inflated opinion of your own shill-dar.

Oddly the thousands of readers a day on my forum disagree, no advertising pure word of mouth, over 3200 unique visits a day, so I'm doing something right.

Well there is a reason for that. I was called a shill before because I posted something that people didn't understand. There is a regular here I think is a white power antisemite, and propagandizing for the same, but they aren't a shill. I find them infuriating but I can tell you they have a right to their opinion so it's better to investigate and read their post history before jumping the gun.

Censorship

Reddit, YouTube, Facebook, Twitter and Google are all actively rigging the access to "controversial" issues in relation to the 9-11 Attack, US Intelligence Community, Military Industrial Complex, US Warfare, Financial Sector, Mega Corporations, Key Figureheads and Politics.

• 1 Example: Some of the articles and research written and published just few years ago, after Mr. Snowden made his startling revelations about the US Intelligence Community blatantly illegally spying on all US citizens and the methods they use, has either gone completely missing or has been buried under mountains of government/corporate friendly data and lies. The search algorithms, offered to costumers by certain private companies, has been modified to "disappear" the "controversial" data.

• 2 Example: If you search the internet for 9-11 related material, you are much more likely to find scientifically inaccurate material, deliberate misleading material or material planted by the US Intelligence Community, than you are finding useful material for further study. This is especially true if you are unfamiliar with the subject at hand, you most likely end up with a "The Arabs did it in corporation with Evil Alien Reptilians" style material, which of cause will scare away any sane person. Sometimes you can observe how the Reddit moderator team blatantly censor new 9-11 articles by rigging the votes, only to allow a wave of misleading articles and posts to flood the r/conspiracy forum.

• 3 Example: If you post anything on Reddit about the crushing economic inequality, corporate crimes, financial crimes, financial rigging (LIBOR, FOREX, gold, silver, interest rates) your comments section will be crushed by waves of paid government Sh!lls & Pund!ts (or smart computer algorithms). If your post made it to the front page, they will immediately remove it. Most "controversial" posts will die a silent death due to rigging of the voting mechanics (their favorite method).

Reddit, owned by Advanced Publications, are serving their evil overlords well, this is just another brick in the great wall of lies and disinformation, created by the corporate owned mass media in tandem with the US intelligence community.

Allright so where should i look for actual stuff?

• Avoid the corporate owned mass media like the plague: BBC, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, New York Times so on and so forth. Only use them as a source of biased reference to get a grip on the public opinion. They are owned by the oligarchs and act like a mouthpiece.

• Avoid extremism, both right wing and left wing populism, they are just playing the good cop and cop game, while the oligarchs rob us blind.

• Data, statistics and factual knowledge of events is key. Question everything and accept the answer you get, even if they contradict deeply held opinions and beliefs. This process can be very very painful! Science is your friend. Religion, ideology and politicized conflicts is your sworn enemy, fog that prevents you from seeing the truth.

Independent journalism, good news sources and unbiased data is hard to come by...virtually impossible! I use a broad specter of news channels, sources and expert opinion. No one is 100% right and no one is 100% wrong. You must use common sense and look at both sides. Be fair to your enemies and be critical of your friends opinions.

• Censorship by the corporate owned mass media makes it extremely hard to get the full picture. It is getting harder by the day and the media citizen has no idea what is going on.

Be the good guy. The world is full of loudmouthed baboons, fools, idiots and greedy psychopaths who shun no means to achieve their goal. Value human life above all else, mind human intimacy and fragility, we are all the heat of matter all at fault to some extend for what is going on.

Data, statistics and factual knowledge of events is key. Question everything and accept the answer you get, even if they contradict deeply held opinions and beliefs. This process can be very very painful! Science is your friend. Religion, ideology and politicized conflicts is your sworn enemy, fog that prevents you from seeing the truth.

Keep in mind though, there is an effort to subvert and sociologize / politicize science itself---so you have to fact-check the sources of the science as well.

Remember when that chinese researcher cured HIV but then it turns out he didn't? That was to justify grants, now multiply that gain by 1M and that's the motivation the government has to muck around with science as a form of mass mind control--they are trying to actively mutate culture and they are very successful with everyone but the people here in /r/conspiracy that are watchign this shitshow in realtime.

Data, statistics and factual knowledge of events is key. Question everything and accept the answer you get, even if they contradict deeply held opinions and beliefs. This process can be very very painful! Science is your friend. Religion, ideology and politicized conflicts is your sworn enemy, fog that prevents you from seeing the truth.

You make a lot of sense but I cannot agree 100% on the limits you are placing, unless these are your own ideals. For example if there were a certain group of evil gazillionairs who were using Biblical scriptures as a road map to domination, then knowledge of Biblical texts would be crucial to defending against this attack. Science is a tool created by humans to allow us to understand the world around us and beyond but science tends to ignore what it cannot measure. Religion/spirituality is basically a stop gap so we do not lose the knowledge of good and evil, our moral compass if you will. Just mho.

• 1) The group of people who know the most about the bible, in general, is atheists, according a great many surveys and studies. You should (this is crucial) be able to entertain an idea without believing in it. Ideologies, religion, politics and conspiracies included.

• 2) Using the bible or any other text from an earl era, especially if you are literal and uneducated, is extremely problematic. Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism and Buddhism all have their share of bat shit crazy followers, who all tend to drag everyone around them down with them.

• 3) Strong moral values, not bigotry, is very important. Good moral values doesn't necessarily stem from religion. Good moral values can originate from many different sources, but at their core they have a fundamental respect for human life and our somewhat limited ability to navigate and understand the world around us :-)

I agree but anything can be taken to extremes. I suppose that is the price of individuality. I'm curious though about these other sources of moral values, could you elaborate please? Thanks for your time.

Many sources including philosophy, history, religion and ethics. I tend to focus on the "we" and not so much the "me me me" which is prevalent trend in our time. I guess I am old fashioned ;-)

Philosophy, if not a higher power is a good answer was the only valid source I could think of. There has to be some answers in the collective knowledge of human experience. Religion, imo, is just another control mechanism.

Religion is good for control, no doubt about that. TV is good for controlling people too. The internet is good for controlling too, if you can control the flow of information too. Ill give them an A for effort.

I can't even watch a movie anymore without dissecting the social engineering and TV, pointless. Seems to me as if reality has been inverted. The sad thing is that with our level of technology, the elimination of poverty and hunger globally are within reach but we are denied technology which makes us independent from a centralized control mechanism and we are only allowed to have tech that makes us MORE dependent on the same :(

Here. You just have to find the posts by users who care to do good conspiracy research and are willing to engage in criticisms and counter-research. The ISIS proxy army threads are what I'm thinking of at this moment. Corbett report is often cited because he does good research also. An oldie but goodie is the mae brussell archive on youtube. Her work is incredible. There's a lot of goofy people in the conspiracy space but Brussell is a rational, pragmatic breath of fresh air.

buried under mountains of government/corporate friendly data and lies.

Yrp. I noticed this also. It seems there is an effort to use SEO and SERP abusively by populating the web with a bunch of crap such that it will 'float up' to the top of Google. Now this isn't simply subverting google, they are too smart for that (I used to code for an SEO company)... so I firmly believe google is participating actively in the gaming of the system to promote content about pop celebrity garbage while demoting content related to 9/11 truth.

I used to get infuriated with google's abject inability to give me contextually accurate stuff anymore, but then i realized, "no, google doesn't suck now...they are gaming, they are gaslighting, they are confabulating the public"...They've gone to the dark side (well, they were always the dark side)...it's very obvious now.

You can use Duckduckgo but it's not much better. Startpage gets their results from google. It seems reddit search of very specific things, plus your memory plus bookmarking is the only way to remember / recall stuff now.

They are actively destroying the internet culture and ruining people's relationship with information---on purpose.

Spring Break is in full stride to boot.

I prefer to see the sub as it would be "in the wild" no matter how that "wild" may appear. If we can't confront and effectively oppose the paid sector here on our own turf without using the crutch of censorship, we are a doomed class anyway. I see us as a slowly rising force even with the help of our detractors.

The problem with that is that the sub is always under attack from hostile sub sets of people on Reddit. We're here getting rid of trolls that make new accounts almost daily. Other than that not much else ever gets removed. The mod team truly doesn't feel the need to remove stuff here like other subs I know of.

/r/Libertarian also should be commended for removing nothing. And it also just so happens to be the least 'toxic' large reddit community according to this study:

• http://idibon.com/toxicity-in-reddit-communities-a-journey-to-the-darkest-depths-of-the-interwebs/

/r/SubredditDrama (which frequently sends bully brigades here) was one of the most toxic.

Hah somehow im not surprised by that fact.

I made a sub /r/DeleteNothing and it was brigaded super hard, I had to abandon it after they stole mod privileges from me. Back when I was magnora2

I just read all about that the other day. That clique that harassed you and requested the sub is pretty pathetic.

Same creeps behind this crap:

• http://i.imgur.com/9Iz12h2.png

• https://web.archive.org/web/20130703082609/http://www.reddit.com/r/conspiratard/comments/1h025v/my_ruse_has_come_to_an_end_how_i_tested_the/

Consider the signal to noise ratio. The more noise the less likely people will be to sift through it. I am not advocating anything, simply pointing out that there is essentially no way to deal with an overabundance of shitposting.

IMO this is an effect from more people 'waking up' and flooding the sub PLUS the increased shills that would go along with making sure those minds go right back to sleep.

Whats wrong with /r/conspiracy is that were it not for cognitive dissonance, most of the content could easily be posted in /r/news. Reality is a problem for many.

It used to be, until the rules for the main subs were gradually changed a few years ago. /r/conspiracy is what the front page used to look like 8 years ago, it was about exposing hidden truths and orienting ourselves in this world

Wow, I did not know this. Two years ago I was doing BTR shows every Wednesday night on Conspiracy Theory/fact and interviewing folks like Heather Gass on the Delphi Technique, Mike Hansen on Bohemian Grove, victims of electronic harassment, etc, etc. Even had folks calling in giving live reports at events but I quit because I thought it was all going mainstream lol. Thanks for the info. I guess maybe I should get back in the game.

Edit: a word

Here's a random front page from 2005: http://web.archive.org/web/20051125043230/http://reddit.com/

You can look at various front pages from different dates here: http://web.archive.org/web/20050101000000*/http://www.reddit.com

Compare that to the front page now, it makes me sad. Same thing that happened to digg though, that's just the lifecycle of social media sites like these. They always sell out to corporations and governments.

So what has happened to reddit isn't any different what is going on in society with progressives demanding safe spaces and trigger warnings. r/news was turned into a safe space. Thanks for helping me to understand.

Yes, it is funny though that even Trump supporters use this safe space tactic now. Americans as a whole, left or right or neither, are losing their ability to tolerate conflicting opinions, probably because everyone's emotions are high-strung because the economy has been very bad since 2008 and I think a lot of people are in a mild state of panic, and thus avoid anything that emotionally perturbs them as much as they can. We're all making our own echo chambers so we don't have to feel uncomfortable, imo. Fear of others is taking over our culture, which I think is because success is harder and harder to come by.

Yep. There was a pretty clear correlation between the size of reddit's userbase and the authoritarianism/statism on display by both admins and mods of large subreddits. Sad.

Tangential evidence:

• https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/92of9/wtf_happened_to_the_911_commission_articles/c0bgc4i?context=4

/u/Karmanaut even used to use a sockpuppet called /u/911WasAnInsideJob (sp?) to act as black-propaganda in order to mock the dominant trend of questioning 9/11 on this website.

Political conspiracies are always a hot topic at this point in the "election" cycle. They'll pretty much disappear again after the "election". Then, in 4 years, it'll happen again.

I agree with this, great point. I've been frustrated by all the political content lately, too, but now that you put it this way I'm realizing that a bunch of subs are dealing with this. I saw a mod post on ELI5 the other day saying no more political posts--I don't think it was anything underhanded; I just think the sub got sick and tired of all the political posturing. That's just one example of a sub I've seen that's facing this same issue and is arguably even a less appropriate place for political posts than r/conspiracy. Additionally, the higher level of general political/current events awareness is also probably focusing more outside attention on this sub, making it more vulnerable to manipulation and paid shitposts. But that's another thing that should decline after the election.

I don't think it's time to lose hope yet. I've seen this sub go through a lot, and while I'm not going to say it's just as good as it was when I joined--I'd really have to reflect on that--I still think it's worthwhile. There is a ton on here that I vehemently disagree with, don't get me wrong. But it is a place where skepticism is considered a virtue, and that's a rare and precious quality.

/r/videos also doesn't tolerate politcs of any kind any more. I tried to post a thing about the role of the media in politics (it wasn't partisan or relevant to hillary/trump/bernia, it was about the media) and I had to remove it because it said no politics. I believe this is a relatively new thing. You have to post to /r/politicalvideos now

They did that during the fatpeoplehate fracas because they wanted to ban/censor any videos dealing with 'SJWs' or cry-bullies. They use the broadest definition for "politics" possible, except when they agree with the sentiment of the video, then it's totally not "politics".

From what i have experienced in the past two years being a lurker here is that the mods of r/conspiracy are pretty damn liberal with what they allow here. I've seen some shady shit here and there, and i think that fundamentaly comes from well worded butthurt posters who actually violated a rule and are upset their post was deleted.

There might be some legitimate manipulation going on here in this sub, but i think the discredit that comes from outside sources should warrant worry then the people who moderate this sub. As misconstrued as it may seem, this is truly the last bastion of free speech that can actually reach a wider audience.

We all have our differences, but every moderator of r/conspiracy seems pike a guy i could sit down and have a beer with. Remeber one thing about your online experiece, we are all real people as easy as it is to differentiate a user name from a living breathing person. We seek the truth, and this is the last forum the will actually be heard. These guys are badasses, and sometimes they have to make choices based on the rules set that not everyone will agree with. Take a logical stand point man, we need r/conspiracy.

As misconstrued as it may seem, this is truly the last bastion of free speech that can actually reach a wider audience.

You can reach a larger audience in the default subs too, it just has to be carefully crafted. Completely unhampered speech that is controversial - mods are gonna crack down on that. Know thy game, win thy game.

Just sort by new and you'll get tons of interesting content. It ain't rocket science. But if you're here for karma then you've come to the wrong place.

More often than not I find the New queue the most interesting.

OP isn't concerned with karma or internet points. OP's point is about the apparent censoring of posts that might expose a real conspiracy. Considering that is literally the name of the sub, I don't know why anyone would be surprised that this sub would be a HUGE target.

Indeed. It doesn't cost much to hire some click workers to brigade and posts that get to close to the bone. Trivial amounts of money.

So you suggest we censor all political posts to please you? I can see absolutely no backlash to that suggestion and look forward to the total lack of complaints.

Likewise, but there's so much fuckery involved in politics, and so much wasted energy expended following the divide and conquer programming that politics promotes that it's hardly surprising it takes over a bit in election season. You're free to scroll past the political stuff still. Maybe try sorting by controversial for the posts buried by the bread and circuses.

I suspect this is happening to you more than other people, my posts vary from doing badly to doing ok depending on whether they resonate with enough people or appeal to a broad section of users from both sides of the political divide.
It's possible you do have a downvote bot following you around as self posts seem to get traction if they appeal to enough people but they're usually well formatted and quite comprehensive in nature.

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I don't doubt it for a second, it's confirming it on a specific case that's a bit tricky. Ultimately this is a marketing platform nowadays and I'd be surprised if it wasn't happening. Ask yourself why none of the sites selling reddit upvotes are blacklisted by reddit and it becomes obvious enough.

Think that was linked in TMOR

Thanks for sticking up for me. I appreciate it. Sometimes I think I'm going crazy. Then I realize I just ate a Swiss product and the NSA hates me.

Ah sorry, then I don't know what to suggest, reddit's vote fuzzing makes it incredibly difficult to tell if there's any vote manipulation happening. Possibly by design as they took away the comment upvote/downvote scores that showed this in action.

I'm fairly certain that what you're talking about (votes not seeming to count) is a reddit-wide "glitch" and it happens in all subs. Log out and look at the numbers of any thread, they'll be different. It's just reddit's weird code.

Yes, of course there are bots. Every link I post gets downvoted one point immediately.

But who cares? It's just internet points. They don't mean anything.

No, it isn't somewhat of a logical fallacy.

If a post stays at zero, then it's impossible to find after a couple of hrs. Hence, the metrics mean something.

But one downvote from a bot doesn't bury a post. If enough people upvote it, the bots won't matter too much.

But that's not what he's saying. And I've noticed it as well. In the new queue, if a post is about a particular issue, it will attract enough bots to counter the upvotes and keep the post at zero.

Comments however get bot swarms that lump on 30 downvotes in 10 mins if it's about the wrong (right) issue so they become practically invisible too.

They don't mean anything to most people who call /r/Conspiracy home. They do however determine which posts will get visibility and potentially make the front page and reach millions.

Honestly, I think that most people who post here hope that their one post will go viral and spark a mass awakening. At least that's how I feel sometimes.

Well, I care. Even though you and I don't agree on a lot of things, jacks. I value that you are allowed to have an ungamed opinion here. I don't like 'the will of the people' being mutated by people who have the money and time to invest in shaping public opinion unfairly through a battery of paid people or through software. It breaks democracy in the same way as the electoral college does.

Also, if your comment gets immediately downvoted to 1 (or 0) then your being deprived of a voice and of agency because other people will not get to see it. If it's a legit 1, that's fine, but it's very statistically unlikely that you;re comments are 1 every time--that's a hallmark of being controlled.

I know I can't personally downvote you fast enough jacks lol so having a 1 is true evidence your'e being controlled :) I kid

I know I can't personally downvote you fast enough

See? You may as well be a bot. You are a bot, just a human one. You see my handle and click "down" simply because you disagree with me and don't like me - just like the bots do.

Doesn't matter if my comments are throught-provoking, you are interesting in disappearing opinions you don't like - just like the people running the bots.

So what in the world are you complaining about?

Well that explains why my post calling politicians corrupt and paid off got down voted to hell. In /R/conspiracy I was a bit confused.

Oh hell I said it again here we go.

Hah. It would be cool if you allowed everything but made people tag stuff like they do in other subs. That way you could filter them out. Something like 'nopolitics' tag, or let people use multiple tags (NSA + Whistleblowing)

Interesting idea but as many new users ignore the rules we already have in place I suspect it'd just make more work for the mods. Who's going to tag their post 'just trolling lol'?

We.

The mods don't censor (well; sometimes they do) but it's not necessary to have friendly mods in order to get your view censored. People with money hire PR firms with lots of users who can get anything done online.

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

And remember JTRIG is one example among thousands, and it's not even the most sophisticated operation.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Earnest_Voice

It seems to me that the main problem with this sub is very low-credibility "conspiracy theories" - UFOs, Illuminati, "no planes on 9/11" etc. In some cases, it does appear to be professional shills, in other cases, just bored trolls, and in many cases just superstitious people obsessed with getting internet points.

There's no real "fix" for it. Just upvote the good stuff, comment on their threads, and downvote the bad stuff.

Self-posters are virtually always low-quality.

Then what are you doing here.

Did you have trouble reading the comment?

upvote the good stuff, comment on their threads, and downvote the bad stuff.

You're a nice person always

I responded to kookaburralaughs in kind.

very low-credibility "conspiracy theories" - UFOs, Illuminati, "no planes on 9/11"

1. The tendency to deny, rather than doubt.
2. Double standards in the application of criticism.
3. Tendency to discredit, rather than investigate.
4. Making unsubstantiated counter-claims.

In some cases, it does appear to be professional shills, in other cases, just bored trolls, and in many cases just superstitious people obsessed with getting internet points

1. Use of ridicule or ad hominem attacks in lieu of arguments. (red flag characteristic)
2. Pejorative labeling of proponents as 'promoters', 'pseudoscientists' or practitioners of 'pathological science.

There's no real "fix" for it.

Self-posters are virtually always low-quality.

1. Assuming criticism requires no burden of proof.
2. Use of vague, exaggerated or untestable claims.
3. They speak down to their audience using 'arguments from authority'.

http://911debunkers.blogspot.com/2010/02/jref-forum-posts-comprehensive.html

Here we see 911bodysnatchers322 using the typical tactics: trying to associate 9/11 truth and evidence of criminal conspiracies with UFOs, Illuminati, "no planes on 9/11" and "space beams" type disinformation.

Then, when this is pointed out, 911bodysnatchers322 makes accusations of shilling.

In fact, he's doing exactly what he is accusing me of doing. The 911debunkers site has never engaged in any low-credibility non-conspiracy theories about UFOs, Illuminati, or "no planes."

Instead, the JREF promote associating the actual 9/11 truth movement with such things.

Yea wtf he laid into you for no reason...

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You know how you can filter them? Don't click them.

RES can certainly keyword filter out posts for you, last time I checked.

Your post will stay at zero because it's a single paragraph post with nothing in it.

No, OP's post will be allowed a small number of upvotes by the ones pulling the strings of Reddit, only to make OP's prediction wrong and serve to discredit. I know that sounds far fetched, but I made a post a few months back and said almost the same thing, and my post ended up with around the same score. High enough to blend in, low enough to stay FAR away from the juicy front page.

Exactly right. People seem to forget that everything is cause and effect. If you call out a manipulating subreddit and say something like "My post will stay at 0" then those manipulating will sub will upvote your post to try to humiliate you.

Had the OP said nothing, it would have been downvoted to 0. Again, a move designed to humiliate him.

You guys are hilarious.

It sounds like you've set yourself up for this to be claimed as a conspiracy regardless of what happens. Either it gets upvoted and is a conspiracy, or it stays at 0 and is a conspiracy.

I've messaged five of the moderators about this issue and not a single response.

Uhhh... Why send PMs instead of modmail?

*crickets*

your guaranteed failed, i want my time/money back.

Just saying that the success of this thread essentially moots your point and proves that the types of thoughts you described AREN'T entirely suppressed. Of course half the reason I think it did so well is because people upvoted to make it a hypocrisy for the sake of humor.

This sub has been broken for YEARS. You're just now figuring it out? It's all about politics or the big bad evil corporates and that's it. They even changed the side bar to edit out UFOs...

Frankly, I should leave.

To be fair, /r/ufos is run by skeptics.

Which only shows how much worse the situation at Reddit really is.

Yeah, the aliens subs aren't any better either...And even the subs that try to take the subject matter seriously are just magnets for typical Reddit assholes.

Does this reaching #5 not completely destroy the post's point? Therefore rightfully returning this shit post to its final destination, 0?

no shit, get off reddit, this place is just a big fishnet

What do you mean a big fishnet?

As in, you are here, commenting on /r/Conspiracy. We are being watched.

Oh no!

That's why I walk prance around naked in front of big curtainless windows. I want them to vomit a little in their coffee, all day long.

I will slightly disagree. The presidential election is a big political event which shows up many of the conspiracies that we deal with on a regular basis here. Lack of political representation, foreign policy, ballot box stuffing, racism, classism, media control, etc.

I've been seeing posts like this for a few years here now. It's true. it's been true for a long time.

https://zeronet.io/ is making a distributed reddit. So pretty soon there will be no reason to be here.

You forgot to mention they up vote you to make you look stupid

You've definitely highlighted the issue

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Rule 10.

Reddit is dead. Free information is nearly dead. Welcome to the new world.

Hey, thanks for standing up for the self-posters OP. I personally appreciate it since I've noticed this phenomenon and it pisses me off. I'll spend literally half a day researching stuff and constructing a narrative to prove what I'm seeing as a conspiracy to share with you and it will get like 10-25 upvotes. Don't get me wrong, I believe there is MUCH more support for this kind of stuff--based primarily on the overwhelmingly positive feedback I get in the comments--leading me to believe there is a sockpuppet army or software that is controlling my posts.

Like you mentioned, someone will repost some 9/11 evidence from 2006, or some kind of imgur meme, or even 'the history of your enslavement' which is an old and not entirely correct cartoon I've seen here not less than 20 times in a decade, and it will get upvoted like to 300. No /r/conspiracy regular would post that. Meanwhile a truther regular like molybdenum will post some new or obscure 9/11 thing and it will be stuck around 20-30 if it makes it that far. I know there's a /r/911truth sub, but it was being gamed so much also (by the same chicanery we're seeing here on /r/conspiracy), that I know many of us left and hangout here primarily now.

I wish there were a more sub-specific karmic means to self-regulate this sub. I don't like inhibiting newcomers but it would be nice to be able to autokill already debunked stuff even I'm guilty of posting (simpsons predictive programming comes to mind--my bad) and also kind of 'slowing down' its upward ascent while promoting specific posts.

It would be nice if reddit allowed you to sacrifice some of your karma to promote things you think are important. Like, I lose 20 karma to give 3-5 karma to a specific post.

what subs do you recommend then ?

This is basically r/sandersforpresident2. It's awful.

Yep, failure to oust the shills has ruined this place. It's like we built a beautiful city but failed to defend our borders, so barbarians have just waltzed in and trashed the place.

Unsubscribe

My posts are being downvoted within the first minute they are posted. The fuck is going on?!

I've noticed the same thing. They don't even down vote you so your statements look like hey have failed to be noticed by anyone of merit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that noticed.

The thin skin of some people on reddit never ceases to amaze me. Grow a fucking pair.

They let yours through to "prove" they aren't shills.

Heh, I disagree. I think unless you really are a shill, there's really no reason to get upset. Usually those who get upset about be called a shill are in a likelihood a shill. Why not just let the community decide if they agree or not with the accusation? The people here are typically pretty good at sniffing out the shills, and should be allowed to call it like they see it IMO.

So to protect the sub from shills you protect the shills? Orwell can ya hear me>

It'll all blow over after Trump wins in November. 9 more months of having a shitty, mostly trump/burnie/shillary posts. Stay patient my friends

Here we see 911bodysnatchers322 using the typical tactics: trying to associate 9/11 truth and evidence of criminal conspiracies with UFOs, Illuminati, "no planes on 9/11" and "space beams" type disinformation.

Then, when this is pointed out, 911bodysnatchers322 makes accusations of shilling.

In fact, he's doing exactly what he is accusing me of doing. The 911debunkers site has never engaged in any low-credibility non-conspiracy theories about UFOs, Illuminati, or "no planes."

Instead, the JREF promote associating the actual 9/11 truth movement with such things.

I responded to kookaburralaughs in kind.

It used to be, until the rules for the main subs were gradually changed a few years ago. /r/conspiracy is what the front page used to look like 8 years ago, it was about exposing hidden truths and orienting ourselves in this world