If you truly are convinced, then the debates should be centered on how to transmit your certainty to others, for this is more difficult than one would initially think.
And also, it's a matter of what level of fake-ness.
Was it a false flag, motive being to instill fear and massage the message that guns are dangerous and we shouldn't have them into the collective psyche (or at least have another incident to bring up in future political discourse?
Did anyone die? And if they did, was it some sort of satanic human sacrifice?
When I first started reading about sandy hook, it was because I had bored myself to death with 9/11 theories on night shift and needed another conspiracy to read about. I watched some video called "sandy hoaxed" and then "we need to talk about sandy hook" and then the hours just started to fly by while I was looking further and further into it. I can't recall where I became convinced, which is my biggest obstacle in presenting my case to others.
Interesting. I'm quite familiar with most if not all of the theory behind false flag, hoax, etc.
But there's a big issue. Evidence is not (always) proof. This was a big concept for me to really sink in. There can be boat loads of evidence that Sandy Hook was a hoax and that no one died, but that doesn't mean it's true. The documentaries and videos and blog posts usually are biased towards presenting the evidence which bolsters the conspiratorial claim. That's perfectly fine. It's similar to a prosecutor intentionally not doing the defense attorneys job.
And believe me there is a lot of evidence supporting that it was a hoax.
Now, I ask you the following question, and I hope you understand my purpose: What is one piece of evidence that suggests Sandy Hook wasn't a hoax?
These people on Reddit that always claim they know someone who died; although you asked for evidence and really that is just anecdotes, and could easily be misinformation. That's really the only thing I can think of that bodes well for the official story.
I'm not even saying it's easy. But this is always a good exercise to validate a strong belief (meaning if it's entirely hard or impossible to come up with evidence it was real, than that only leaves us with one other possibility)
Anyway, I remember months back when I was doing serious research on this and I downloaded archives of 'crime scene photos' There were a ton of redacted "black screen" images (maybe say 20%) out of hundreds upon hundreds.
The only ones that would have any value to me and my investigative cause were apparently redacted. Anyway, I got thinking about this and it made little sense to go through the trouble of having, literally, black images amongst neutral pictures of a child's room, broken glass and what could have been an abandoned school. It came off sketchy to me, that is, it seemed like just another propaganda tool which suggested "Oh yes there was death and blood that the public is legally(?) not sanctioned to see."
To be honest, I wouldn't have necessarily wanted to see a dead body (although that would shut me the f**k up for sure,) but some blood tracks/trails in the school would have been just fine to diminish most (not all!) of my skepticism about Sandy Hook.
Yes, I often entertain these thoughts to myself; I think it is the hallmark of a rational mind. I always ask myself when I find that I am getting really emotional over something whether or not there is enough actual evidence to warrant feeling to strongly about it. There simply is so much information that even if it were not the truth it is enough to warrant suspicion, but the truth is that I have just learned so much that for me looking at all of these specific leads, it is impossible for them not be connected. Sure, I might be wrong about the who's and the why's, but I know for sure it didn't happen the way they said it, and I know the official narrative is false.
Edit: I say this more regarding ones that I traditionally do a ton of research on such as 9/11, specifically I can't make the statements I made above for Sandy Hook as I still need to do more research, but I sure as shit don't trust the official story.
to speak against my own beliefs on the matter, I'd say that the shear size of the hoax (the number of people involved, corporations that were complicit, like CNN and the NFL) makes it too unrealistic to believe it happened. then there's the fact that nobody has come forward publicly to admit their involvement
Well, although there might have been a fairly large number complicit, if it was indeed a hoax, it's not as many as most think. In my opinion, if the area was cordoned off, there need not even be a complicit "clean up crew" for there was nothing to clean up.
Most parties would be in the same boat as every other gullible member of the public. Certainly the media (who prostitutes itself daily for bad, not necessarily true news) and even the NFL whom could have hosted those MK-Ultra'd kids thinking that Sandy Hook was real.
And then of course there is always a well-played death threat or blackmail.
Just playing devil's advocate. Whenever I hear "too many people have to be in on it and why hasn't someone come forward" etc, it seems to me to be a failure of imagination (playing out the scenario in the mind)
What about those fake swat teams where the guy in the middle is actually Wheeler's father in SWAT gear, but if you think about it like this: Wheeler had to play the officer in SWAT gear in order to keep the amount of co-conspirators to the last amount of people possible; in order to do this they reused certain actors and had to heavily disguise one to do so. That's how I see it anyway.
God thank you for explaining this! I just got into an argument about someone claiming I was lazy for asking for proof. I couldn't quite explain myself so I gave up. But now I know what to say :) I hope OP replies to your comment, as I would like to know too.
This isn't an easy one. It's a shame we don't have real investigative reporting nowadays or people who are willing to bend the rules (still maintaining a higher moral ground) to get the truth. Anyway, I fear too much time has past to figure this one out. Especially since the school was demolished...
His face was most likely photo-shopped/morphed to induce that effect in the public, which (mostly) has no clue of the level of photo-shoppery, CGI and audio dubbing that the media, NASA (Space pictures,) and government agencies (the famous Osama Bin Laden audio dub) pulls on us. The worst part is they think it's noble to do this. They think their cause is "just." They are utilizing the concept of the ... NOBLE LIE! Except they are mostly ignoble lies nowadays. ( My username should have probably been Ignoble_Lie ....)
We all ought to pay close attention and be ready to scrutinize more.
And just because most of my work in this thread has been on trying to urge others to find reasons why it might not be a hoax (although most of our senses, research, eyewitness, and intution point the other direction,) this particular point is kind of easy to see the other side. Supposing 26 people really did die in the school, it does give strong motivation to tear the house and school down to simply leave behind the past (although coming to terms with it might be the better approach)
to directly answer your question, I think it was a hoax that went like this:
president Obama sent attorney general Eric Holder on Nov 27th to speak with Governor Dan Malloy to go over details with him about a drill that would be presented to the public as a real event.
since Connecticut is Corrupticut, Eric Holder knew that he could get their cooperation in deceiving the country. They found a closed school, dressed it up to appear as a functioning school shot the empty place up and told CNN to start rolling the cameras.
except they were really careless in passing this off as a real event, because we now know of all the anomalies surrounding the event.
edit: we're told there were two lanza brothers, Ryan (the oldest) and Adam (the shooter). In reality, the shooter never existed. Ryan lanza was named adam when he was born, changed his name to Ryan 3 years before the hoax, and had to pretend that he had a younger brother named adam who had severe mental issues. then the "shooting" happens, and it's adam who did it, except adam only exists on paper by that point.
I had to seriously analyze (given one goes with the idea that many children died that day)
Except for the fact that it's 100% inconsistent with EVERY SCIENTIFIC OBSERVATION HUMANS HAVE EVER MADE.
Religion was once used to explain many natural phenomena that science had yet to fully understand. But since then, many religious mechanisms have been abandoned for more secular explanations. I cannot think of a single counterexample to this, wherein a scientific mechanism was better explained later on by a religious one. And I don't believe that's a coincidence.
When did I say it was rational or had real effects (maybe it does?) I just alluded to it being a possibility, and unreasonable to simply rule out because it's horrifying.
While not required, you are requested to use the NP domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.
These people on Reddit that always claim they know someone who died; although you asked for evidence and really that is just anecdotes, and could easily be misinformation. That's really the only thing I can think of that bodes well for the official story.
to speak against my own beliefs on the matter, I'd say that the shear size of the hoax (the number of people involved, corporations that were complicit, like CNN and the NFL) makes it too unrealistic to believe it happened. then there's the fact that nobody has come forward publicly to admit their involvement
Well, although there might have been a fairly large number complicit, if it was indeed a hoax, it's not as many as most think. In my opinion, if the area was cordoned off, there need not even be a complicit "clean up crew" for there was nothing to clean up.
Most parties would be in the same boat as every other gullible member of the public. Certainly the media (who prostitutes itself daily for bad, not necessarily true news) and even the NFL whom could have hosted those MK-Ultra'd kids thinking that Sandy Hook was real.
And then of course there is always a well-played death threat or blackmail.
Just playing devil's advocate. Whenever I hear "too many people have to be in on it and why hasn't someone come forward" etc, it seems to me to be a failure of imagination (playing out the scenario in the mind)
His face was most likely photo-shopped/morphed to induce that effect in the public, which (mostly) has no clue of the level of photo-shoppery, CGI and audio dubbing that the media, NASA (Space pictures,) and government agencies (the famous Osama Bin Laden audio dub) pulls on us. The worst part is they think it's noble to do this. They think their cause is "just." They are utilizing the concept of the ... NOBLE LIE! Except they are mostly ignoble lies nowadays. ( My username should have probably been Ignoble_Lie ....)
We all ought to pay close attention and be ready to scrutinize more.
And just because most of my work in this thread has been on trying to urge others to find reasons why it might not be a hoax (although most of our senses, research, eyewitness, and intution point the other direction,) this particular point is kind of easy to see the other side. Supposing 26 people really did die in the school, it does give strong motivation to tear the house and school down to simply leave behind the past (although coming to terms with it might be the better approach)
45 comments
14 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
If you truly are convinced, then the debates should be centered on how to transmit your certainty to others, for this is more difficult than one would initially think.
And also, it's a matter of what level of fake-ness.
Was it a false flag, motive being to instill fear and massage the message that guns are dangerous and we shouldn't have them into the collective psyche (or at least have another incident to bring up in future political discourse?
Did anyone die? And if they did, was it some sort of satanic human sacrifice?
Or was Lanza a patzy?
Or did Lanza even exist?
Etc.
What are your conclusions regarding the above?
4 [deleted] 2016-03-27
When I first started reading about sandy hook, it was because I had bored myself to death with 9/11 theories on night shift and needed another conspiracy to read about. I watched some video called "sandy hoaxed" and then "we need to talk about sandy hook" and then the hours just started to fly by while I was looking further and further into it. I can't recall where I became convinced, which is my biggest obstacle in presenting my case to others.
edit: spelling
2 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
Interesting. I'm quite familiar with most if not all of the theory behind false flag, hoax, etc.
But there's a big issue. Evidence is not (always) proof. This was a big concept for me to really sink in. There can be boat loads of evidence that Sandy Hook was a hoax and that no one died, but that doesn't mean it's true. The documentaries and videos and blog posts usually are biased towards presenting the evidence which bolsters the conspiratorial claim. That's perfectly fine. It's similar to a prosecutor intentionally not doing the defense attorneys job.
And believe me there is a lot of evidence supporting that it was a hoax.
Now, I ask you the following question, and I hope you understand my purpose: What is one piece of evidence that suggests Sandy Hook wasn't a hoax?
9 Vitalogy0107 2016-03-27
These people on Reddit that always claim they know someone who died; although you asked for evidence and really that is just anecdotes, and could easily be misinformation. That's really the only thing I can think of that bodes well for the official story.
4 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
I'm not even saying it's easy. But this is always a good exercise to validate a strong belief (meaning if it's entirely hard or impossible to come up with evidence it was real, than that only leaves us with one other possibility)
Anyway, I remember months back when I was doing serious research on this and I downloaded archives of 'crime scene photos' There were a ton of redacted "black screen" images (maybe say 20%) out of hundreds upon hundreds.
The only ones that would have any value to me and my investigative cause were apparently redacted. Anyway, I got thinking about this and it made little sense to go through the trouble of having, literally, black images amongst neutral pictures of a child's room, broken glass and what could have been an abandoned school. It came off sketchy to me, that is, it seemed like just another propaganda tool which suggested "Oh yes there was death and blood that the public is legally(?) not sanctioned to see."
To be honest, I wouldn't have necessarily wanted to see a dead body (although that would shut me the f**k up for sure,) but some blood tracks/trails in the school would have been just fine to diminish most (not all!) of my skepticism about Sandy Hook.
2 Vitalogy0107 2016-03-27
Yes, I often entertain these thoughts to myself; I think it is the hallmark of a rational mind. I always ask myself when I find that I am getting really emotional over something whether or not there is enough actual evidence to warrant feeling to strongly about it. There simply is so much information that even if it were not the truth it is enough to warrant suspicion, but the truth is that I have just learned so much that for me looking at all of these specific leads, it is impossible for them not be connected. Sure, I might be wrong about the who's and the why's, but I know for sure it didn't happen the way they said it, and I know the official narrative is false.
Edit: I say this more regarding ones that I traditionally do a ton of research on such as 9/11, specifically I can't make the statements I made above for Sandy Hook as I still need to do more research, but I sure as shit don't trust the official story.
5 sep11insidejob 2016-03-27
More evidence: http://imgur.com/a/sBfhz#HnhZkk9
0 WadeOverLeBron 2016-03-27
What is this regarding? I'm not sure what this is intended to prove.
0 [deleted] 2016-03-27
to speak against my own beliefs on the matter, I'd say that the shear size of the hoax (the number of people involved, corporations that were complicit, like CNN and the NFL) makes it too unrealistic to believe it happened. then there's the fact that nobody has come forward publicly to admit their involvement
1 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
Well, although there might have been a fairly large number complicit, if it was indeed a hoax, it's not as many as most think. In my opinion, if the area was cordoned off, there need not even be a complicit "clean up crew" for there was nothing to clean up.
Most parties would be in the same boat as every other gullible member of the public. Certainly the media (who prostitutes itself daily for bad, not necessarily true news) and even the NFL whom could have hosted those MK-Ultra'd kids thinking that Sandy Hook was real.
And then of course there is always a well-played death threat or blackmail.
Just playing devil's advocate. Whenever I hear "too many people have to be in on it and why hasn't someone come forward" etc, it seems to me to be a failure of imagination (playing out the scenario in the mind)
1 Vitalogy0107 2016-03-27
What about those fake swat teams where the guy in the middle is actually Wheeler's father in SWAT gear, but if you think about it like this: Wheeler had to play the officer in SWAT gear in order to keep the amount of co-conspirators to the last amount of people possible; in order to do this they reused certain actors and had to heavily disguise one to do so. That's how I see it anyway.
2 evestrom 2016-03-27
God thank you for explaining this! I just got into an argument about someone claiming I was lazy for asking for proof. I couldn't quite explain myself so I gave up. But now I know what to say :) I hope OP replies to your comment, as I would like to know too.
1 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
Haha you're welcome.
This isn't an easy one. It's a shame we don't have real investigative reporting nowadays or people who are willing to bend the rules (still maintaining a higher moral ground) to get the truth. Anyway, I fear too much time has past to figure this one out. Especially since the school was demolished...
1 evestrom 2016-03-27
It was? Holy shit. I feel the same way about reporters these days :/
2 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/sandy-hook-demolished-winterized
http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2015/03/25/dnt-adam-lanza-house-demolished.wfsb
Not only that, "Adam Lanza's" home was also supposedly demolished.
Full clean up.
1 PhilbinThaison 2016-03-27
Wow, I had no idea the school and the house were demolished. That makes it pretty obvious, imo
On another note, any article with a picture of adam needs to have a creepy warning attached. That dude is so creepy looking.
2 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
His face was most likely photo-shopped/morphed to induce that effect in the public, which (mostly) has no clue of the level of photo-shoppery, CGI and audio dubbing that the media, NASA (Space pictures,) and government agencies (the famous Osama Bin Laden audio dub) pulls on us. The worst part is they think it's noble to do this. They think their cause is "just." They are utilizing the concept of the ... NOBLE LIE! Except they are mostly ignoble lies nowadays. ( My username should have probably been Ignoble_Lie ....)
We all ought to pay close attention and be ready to scrutinize more.
And just because most of my work in this thread has been on trying to urge others to find reasons why it might not be a hoax (although most of our senses, research, eyewitness, and intution point the other direction,) this particular point is kind of easy to see the other side. Supposing 26 people really did die in the school, it does give strong motivation to tear the house and school down to simply leave behind the past (although coming to terms with it might be the better approach)
2 thing_on_a_string 2016-03-27
its a photoshopped version (remake) of the face of H.P. Lovecraft, the people at GLP were talking about this mere days after the event.
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
to directly answer your question, I think it was a hoax that went like this: president Obama sent attorney general Eric Holder on Nov 27th to speak with Governor Dan Malloy to go over details with him about a drill that would be presented to the public as a real event. since Connecticut is Corrupticut, Eric Holder knew that he could get their cooperation in deceiving the country. They found a closed school, dressed it up to appear as a functioning school shot the empty place up and told CNN to start rolling the cameras. except they were really careless in passing this off as a real event, because we now know of all the anomalies surrounding the event.
edit: we're told there were two lanza brothers, Ryan (the oldest) and Adam (the shooter). In reality, the shooter never existed. Ryan lanza was named adam when he was born, changed his name to Ryan 3 years before the hoax, and had to pretend that he had a younger brother named adam who had severe mental issues. then the "shooting" happens, and it's adam who did it, except adam only exists on paper by that point.
1 average_shill 2016-03-27
One of these things is not like the others
1 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
Hah. It was a theory I came across, and believe it or not, I had to seriously analyze (given one goes with the idea that many children died that day)
1 average_shill 2016-03-27
Except for the fact that it's 100% inconsistent with EVERY SCIENTIFIC OBSERVATION HUMANS HAVE EVER MADE.
Religion was once used to explain many natural phenomena that science had yet to fully understand. But since then, many religious mechanisms have been abandoned for more secular explanations. I cannot think of a single counterexample to this, wherein a scientific mechanism was better explained later on by a religious one. And I don't believe that's a coincidence.
1 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
If you think satanic sacrifice is an impossibility, then you are entitled to that opinion. I do not share it.
I don't believe you've done enough research into the occult (past and present) to be entitled to that opinion though. Correct me if I'm wrong.
And I'm not sure where that second paragraph rant came from.
1 average_shill 2016-03-27
Has someone ever killed someone else in the name of satan? Probably. That doesn't mean any of it is real or a rational belief system to hold.
1 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
When did I say it was rational or had real effects (maybe it does?) I just alluded to it being a possibility, and unreasonable to simply rule out because it's horrifying.
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
sort of off topic, but we get it.
6 spankymcwankerson 2016-03-27
Sandy Hook was one of the events that opened my eyes further. There were no murders in Newtown, CT in 2012 according to official records. Dispute that
https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2012/crime-in-the-u.s.-2012/tables/8tabledatadecpdf/table-8-state-cuts/table_8_offenses_known_to_law_enforcement_by_connecticut_by_city_2012.xls#disablemobile
2 [deleted] 2016-03-27
Is there a subreddit where hoax deniers are wholly unwelcome?
2 coolshifts 2016-03-27
Don't worry. It's like the religious swarming the atheism forums. It keeps it from being an echo chamber.
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
[removed]
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1 -INFOWARS- 2016-03-27
This is probably the only place.
1 Masturnate65 2016-03-27
I think it was real, but carried out by the powers that be.
1 ColdBlueLava 2016-03-27
That's the definition of "False Flag" ;)
1 Masturnate65 2016-03-27
Yeah, a lot of folks think false flags are when the entire event was staged not just the script.
1 disposable182 2016-03-27
I'm not saying you're wrong, bit could you at least provide a single source?
3 [deleted] 2016-03-27
"We need to talk about sandy hook" on YouTube
4 f4irpl4y 2016-03-27
This documentary sealed the deal for me. Best I've seen.
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
[deleted]
3 [deleted] 2016-03-27
equally fake as those
1 DarkSoldier84 2016-03-27
Have there been any random acts of violence that were "real"? I mean the guy who "did it" ACTUALLY did it and it wasn't a false flag?
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
columbine was real, not a false flag.
1 VancouverSucks 2016-03-27
I thought this too, but look into it a again. I don't know anymore. Very wierd shit going on there.
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
there's pictures of dead bodies at columbine and video of the shooters, what makes you think something shady is going on?
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
And the December 2007 shooting at von maur in Omaha Nebraska.
1 [deleted] 2016-03-27
i just made a post about dealing with people claiming to have knowledge that Sandy Hook was real
1 -INFOWARS- 2016-03-27
This is probably the only place.
2 coolshifts 2016-03-27
Don't worry. It's like the religious swarming the atheism forums. It keeps it from being an echo chamber.
9 Vitalogy0107 2016-03-27
These people on Reddit that always claim they know someone who died; although you asked for evidence and really that is just anecdotes, and could easily be misinformation. That's really the only thing I can think of that bodes well for the official story.
0 [deleted] 2016-03-27
to speak against my own beliefs on the matter, I'd say that the shear size of the hoax (the number of people involved, corporations that were complicit, like CNN and the NFL) makes it too unrealistic to believe it happened. then there's the fact that nobody has come forward publicly to admit their involvement
1 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
Well, although there might have been a fairly large number complicit, if it was indeed a hoax, it's not as many as most think. In my opinion, if the area was cordoned off, there need not even be a complicit "clean up crew" for there was nothing to clean up.
Most parties would be in the same boat as every other gullible member of the public. Certainly the media (who prostitutes itself daily for bad, not necessarily true news) and even the NFL whom could have hosted those MK-Ultra'd kids thinking that Sandy Hook was real.
And then of course there is always a well-played death threat or blackmail.
Just playing devil's advocate. Whenever I hear "too many people have to be in on it and why hasn't someone come forward" etc, it seems to me to be a failure of imagination (playing out the scenario in the mind)
2 The_Noble_Lie 2016-03-27
His face was most likely photo-shopped/morphed to induce that effect in the public, which (mostly) has no clue of the level of photo-shoppery, CGI and audio dubbing that the media, NASA (Space pictures,) and government agencies (the famous Osama Bin Laden audio dub) pulls on us. The worst part is they think it's noble to do this. They think their cause is "just." They are utilizing the concept of the ... NOBLE LIE! Except they are mostly ignoble lies nowadays. ( My username should have probably been Ignoble_Lie ....)
We all ought to pay close attention and be ready to scrutinize more.
And just because most of my work in this thread has been on trying to urge others to find reasons why it might not be a hoax (although most of our senses, research, eyewitness, and intution point the other direction,) this particular point is kind of easy to see the other side. Supposing 26 people really did die in the school, it does give strong motivation to tear the house and school down to simply leave behind the past (although coming to terms with it might be the better approach)
2 thing_on_a_string 2016-03-27
its a photoshopped version (remake) of the face of H.P. Lovecraft, the people at GLP were talking about this mere days after the event.