Not sure if it's evil but is surely a test or a filter. The more earthly/selfish behavior you engage in the more you become mired. Every religion teaches selflessness and unselfish behavior with love for your brothers and sisters is the way to heaven as far as I understand. I may be wrong, wouldn't be the first time.

The world is only evil because we have evil people running it.

I don't believe the material world is inherently evil, I just think Evil currently has the upperhand.... by its very definition I don't think you can just have one without the other, for example good & evil exist mutually as does; on/off, Solid/Space etc...

When you die, consciousness continues because nature abhors a vacuum and your reborn again.... Try imagining going to sleep and never waking up.... or... waking up, having never gone to sleep...

My belief is that organized religion has done a very effective job of hiding who we really are... We are infinite love & infinite possibility... Nothing else matters :)

would destroying your body grant you access to heaven?

Destroying the temple to flee a material world in order to gain access to heaven...works for some that promote a certain religion and is antithetical to others.

Your body is a temple. Some verse I recall from Sunday school several lifetimes ago.

I'm not into material possession. My physical is temporary. My spiritual aspect is never ending.

When I splintered from a physical, man (human) made spiritual building of walls, books, rules, gobbildegook and man made laws of lies, I was free.

I was fourteen, on a bus to a huge religious event and my sponsor became very ill. I alerted the driver that she needed a hospital, he was Nazarene. This is a bus load of Mormon acolytes taking goobers like myself to Zion.

SLC, Utah.

The bus driver, I knew on a personal level, was my school choir teacher. The bus behind us, also full of kids headed to Zion, was also driven by a Nazarene...choir teacher.

The "Elders" determined we needed to reroute, out in sage brush bumfuck Idaho for a Laying On Of Hands! All these men, in white shirts, with black ties, met us at some country cafe parking lot to anoint her.

Meanwhile, I've cornered my Jr. High Nazarene Choir Teacher bus driver and my future Senior HS choir teacher to get an ambulance and contact my sponsors parents.

Bursting appendix aside, the three of us saved her life. The drivers refused to move until she was safely transported to a medical facility. If Mr. Jerry Sanford and Mr. Jerry Vevig had acted like religious nut balls I would have given up there and then.

I have freedom to stand up against fanatics. This is an innate trait. It isn't material, mans religion or words written, it is visceral.

Jerry Vevig took his Capital High School Choir to the Johnny Carson Show but he and Jerry Sanford took a bunch of tater heads to spiritual heights without *man made religion.

I was there. I am here, in part, to this significant event.

Arn't you really asking us if you kill yourself, you will go to Hell?

Only if you are without sin. This is why abortion is so great, all those little baby souls go straight to heaven!

No.... purgatory.

Every religion says that abstaining from worlds pleasures and pursuits is spiritually valuable. So I would agree. Piety is the answer my goal Is become More spiritually present and more virtuous. I hope it will happen

Do you believe it's evil?

I'll post here what I posted elsewhere:

I'd say it's more of a spiritual middle school for souls in this part of the galaxy that are not greatly developed.

To those young middle school souls, I imagine this planet very much does look like a hell (as most middle schools do to most middle schoolers).

If so, would destroying your body grant you access to heaven?

You have to define what heaven is first. If it's a Christian-based paradigm you're referring to, then I'd say I'm not sure the real world functions entirely in that way. There are other things going on other than what is exclusively purported by Christianity or the other religions of this planet.

That said, I'd say that destroying your body would, on a spiritual level, likely be similar to or the rough equivalent of dropping out of school. Chances are you're likely not going to do yourself any favors if you drop out. Not saying that school is cool or the best. I always thought it kind of sucked. However, it's probably best to go through with it and get it over with rather than drop out.

Same with life: No one's saying it's easy, but it's probably better overall for your soul - i.e. for that intelligent energy manifesting as what you call your "body" - to go through with the experience it is having here on this shit ball planet called Earth.

If life on this planet is indeed the rough equivalent of a spiritual middle school, then the sooner we hurry up and go through with it and get it over with, the sooner we can continue evolving, pass this "grade" of development so to speak, and move on to the next stage in our spiritual evolution.

What sucks is the: possibility of having to reincarnate, knowing that we're not from here in this artificial disconnected lower realm and still having to be here, being around the majority and seeing just how stupid most are and that you belong in a different grade.

Also to OP, if you study Near death experiences, the suicides go to a 'certain place.' and let's just put it this way, I wouldn't want to be with that group of souls

What sucks is the: possibility of having to reincarnate, knowing that we're not from here in this artificial disconnected lower realm and still having to be here, being around the majority and seeing just how stupid most are and that you belong in a different grade.

This is an entirely understandable perspective. However, we must realize that there are many different spiritual particulars responsible for our identities manifesting in any given place at any given time, and there might be a specific reason as to why we are in a particularly bad or devolved environment during a certain stage of our spiritual journey. We must realize that the most spiritually/emotionally/psychologically evolved humans on this planet are, after all, but the tiniest of babes still as compared to some of the more advanced beings living in this practically limitless universe. Yes, it is true that some of us might be ninth graders in a sea of sixth and seventh graders, as a result of which we might spend a lot of our time rolling our eyes and being frustrated at having to be surrounded by so many sixth and seventh graders that are so far below us in their development, but we must try to realize that we ourselves are still in only ninth grade and there are seniors above us that look down upon us. There are spiritual identities that have already "gone off to college", so to speak - to say nothing of those who are in the spiritual equivalent of graduate school and post doctorate programs (and even less of those who are spiritual "adults", are done with all their schooling, and are now out working “in the real world”/universe).

As such, we might be ninth graders…and, as ninth graders, we might be frustrated at being surrounded by kids….but we must not forget…we’re still only ninth graders at best.

Although we might feel that we don’t “belong here”, there may actually be a purpose for it whose ultimate reason at present might escape us. Because of this possibility, it seems better to simply do one’s best with what one has while one is here, and do everything one can to develop and evolve oneself in such a manner that will allow them to GTFO of this realm and never have to come back after their “tour of duty” on this hell planet is done and over with.

Ultimately, I agree with you though. It does suck. It feels to some/many of us as though we are in a veritable spiritual prison. Why are we in this prison? Well…I have my ideas, but I can’t ultimately say that I’m super sure as to why it is. I do think that it’s possible to accomplish some level of self-development WHILE we’re here that might help/aid in keeping us from having to come back if we don’t have to, however (although, of course, many of us will indeed return - lamentably).

if you study Near death experiences, the suicides go to a 'certain place.' and let's just put it this way, I wouldn't want to be with that group of souls

You’re correct. Much documentation (NDE and otherwise) seems to show that if one spiritually drops out of school/escapes from prison/goes AWOL from their tour of duty on this battlefield (chose your analogy) the results won’t be greatly pleasurable for the identity involved.

And I’d say that this does suck because I’m tired of being here and really want to GTFO of this shit planet (lol smh).

Why are we in this prison? Well…I have my ideas, but I can’t ultimately say that I’m super sure as to why it is.

Right off the bat, the quote above was the biggest sticking point for me, because I can provide some feedback on that from my pre-existence memories.

I was with 3 other units of consciousness and they were discussing with me being 'born on earth,' two things which I either had A.) No clue about because I'm here the 1st time, or B.) Had been resting in the Source for soooooo long that I had wiped myself clean of any past memories of being here...because who the hell wants to remember a shitty trip?

So I was given a preview of earth and being born (by the way all communication was psychic, or rather a sharing of points of view so you can see from that souls perspective and vice versa)

I basically connected to earth on an energetic level and was filled with a hellish energy of; death, war, suicide, disease, ego, greed, hunger, rape, homelessness.....it was horrid, like a bunch of meal worms all fighting and eating each other.

I recoiled and self contracted from the trauma of having that preview and expressed, "There's no possible way I'm going there."

One of the souls expressed back; "But God wants you to be born!"

I paused for a second, and thought to myself, "Hmmmm, God, what is that again?" And before I can finish that thought, I immediately reconnected to the Source of all things that I had just come from. A Oneness of consciousness that is everywhere and beyond any possible level of intelligence anyone can fathom.

I saw that this Oneness had a will, and that it willed for me to be born and showed me the butterfly effect. If I even hold a door open for an old lady going to the store, that 1 single act effects EVERYTHING.

A single person, such as yourself, reading my reply, EFFECTS EVERYTHING, a domino effect on a universal scale.

So I knew that what Oneness/Source wanted, which was for me to come here and help in whatever way I can, even if it seems insignificant, its not. And that doing so is better for the whole then my selfish no wanting to have anything to with this.

So I'm like a spy, sent to prison to remind the prisoners that they are not from this prison, and they can start busting open the bars and fighting and winning against the global prison guards.

But I'll forever be a reluctant servant, reluctant in this bodiless existence. However, like you said:

it seems better to simply do one’s best with what one has while one is here, and do everything one can to develop and evolve oneself in such a manner that will allow them to GTFO of this realm and never have to come back after their “tour of duty” on this hell planet is done and over with.

Its exactly that. Just 2 years back I finally accepted/self acceptance: 'Alright, I'm here, I accept that I'm here for a while, and I accept myself with all my faults and gifts and will carry on the best way I know how, while continuing to learn and grow.

Well…I have my ideas, but I can’t ultimately say that I’m super sure as to why it is

Super interested in your take on what you think.

Also are you aware of the lower god Demiurge/Demigod theory of a being who created the physical in order to imprison souls away from the true infinite source, because Demi believes it is the 1 true God, due to ignorance and forgetfulness of its own source/origins

Super interested in your take on what you think.

It’s not entirely dissimilar to where it seems you’re kind of going with your perspective.

God is everything. Being everything, there is nothing that God isn’t. Logically and necessarily, this means that there is “all good” inside “all bad” and “all bad” inside “all good”. Crazy paradox, of course, but if this in fact wasn’t the case, then that would mean that God isn’t existing in and as everything there is…and if God wasn’t existing in any certain thing, then that would mean that there would be something that existed outside of the power of The All - i.e. that God isn’t omnipresent (i.e. present in and as everything) - which is a contradiction in terms since, as established above, God is Everything already. God is the yin and the yang, the good and the bad.

As such, much as I may not like currently being where I am AT ALL, I also understand that I am (as all of us are) one with (and as) The Great Identity…so I’ll/we’ll be out of this hell hole eventually since this type of dark existence (here on this planet) isn't the only type of existence in the entire expanse of God's limitless creations.

Also are you aware of the lower god Demiurge/Demigod theory of a being who created the physical in order to imprison souls away from the true infinite source, because Demi believes it is the 1 true God, due to ignorance and forgetfulness of its own source/origins

Yes. I am aware of at least some aspect of this. From my perspective, however, even if A) that demiurge exists, and B) it lasts/exists/lives for a billion millennia, what that means is that, well, after a billion millennia, that demiurge will be dead, and it will be absorbed right back into that from which it came - i.e. God Itself.

What that means is that this demiurge itself is only but a doodle that God has drawn upon the scribble pad of Its existence - and the paper upon which this demiurge is drawn will eventually get crumpled up and thrown in the trash by The Great Doodler who drew it in the first place.

Ultimately, we’re all just doodles in the proverbial hand of God. Some doodles are bigger and take a bit longer to draw than others. Some doodles look mean and intimidating and gnash their teeth and growl and are even depicted hurting and eating other doodles.

At the end of the day, however, no matter how many crazy doodles might be drawn, and no matter how much God might identify with Its drawings, The Great Doodler will always be greater than Its doodles.

The key is to try to identify with The Doodler and not with the doodle you're drawn as.

TL;DR: As The Big Lebowski might say, "Be The Great Doodler, dude. Just be The Great Doodler. Don’t identify as just the doodle The Great Doodler draws. We’re more than just that."

Yeah man....great post....this is why I come to this sub for material just like this.

Sadly these topics are regulated to other subs outside of this one, when they really should be here.

You reminded of this idea/philosophy, I can't for the life of me remember where it originated as of right now....never mind, found it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzimtzum

doctrine that God began the process of creation by "contracting" his Ein Sof (infinite) light in order to allow for a "conceptual space" in which finite and seemingly independent realms could exist. This primordial initial contraction, forming a Khalal/Khalal Hapanui ("vacant space", חלל הפנוי) into which new creative light could beam, is denoted by general reference to the tzimtzum.

That's always been a big possibility for me as to why evil/ignorance exists, because in the pre-existence reality, there was no evil there, everything was perfect as it was.

So it makes me wonder if this pulling back of God to create a void, was the birth of non-God possibilities which include evil and all the dualities to exist.

This shit is crazy regardless, just thinking about this all has stretched my consciousness and IQ to some of the highest levels i've never know to experience.

I'd give you gold for your posts brother, but I don't want to support the new owners of reddit

Sadly these topics are regulated to other subs outside of this one, when they really should be here.

Yeah. I’d say they should take place here just as often as not as well. I think that they might possibly even get a slight bit more traction here than in other subs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzimtzum

Lurianic philosophy seems to have certain parallels in the ancient Vedic philosophy of the transcendent personal self - aka the Ātman [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80tman_(Hinduism)] - and the cosmic impersonal principle that’s even grander still and oversees all that is - i.e. the Brahman [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman]. Very interesting.

it makes me wonder if this pulling back of God to create a void, was the birth of non-God possibilities which include evil and all the dualities to exist.

I wouldn’t doubt that in the least actually. It would seem that it is in the material world that duality exists, and it is as a result of duality that we have the creation and the juxtaposition of varying, often conflicting perspectives. It is in this juxtaposition that you have light and dark. All this is within the context of material existence, however, and I’m not sure that it applies outside of that context.

Another individual who delved deeply into these very types of topics was Arthur Schopenhauer in his book “The World As Will And Representation”. He talked at length about how our understanding of existence - and, by extension, our logical and thinking ability and limit - is to a large extent dependent upon what our senses can apprehend. What this inevitably means is that there is only so much that we can even hypothetically understand or know about, and we are significantly limited not only by our minds and brains and our thinking ability, but also by what our very senses can even grasp in the first place. How can we, for example, visualize a color that our eyes do not have the sensory capacity to even register, let alone actually see? After all, we can only see the slightest sliver of the electromagnetic spectrum.

If we take how much there is that we cannot see in the electromagnetic spectrum, and we liken this limitation to, say, how little we understand in terms of the spiritual spectrum of existence, then we can begin to get an idea of just how far away we are from truly understanding exactly what is going on in this cosmos, how expansive is the true reality of the multiverse, and how far we have to go before we get to any real level of enlightenment.

thinking about this all has stretched my consciousness and IQ to some of the highest levels i've never know to experience.

This is a good thing.

I'd give you gold for your posts brother, but I don't want to support the new owners of reddit

We are all connected. The energy and intent of your gesture permeates through the ethers and reaches me here independent of any monetary action you could have taken.

Namaste,

Please see a medical professional.

No, the people who need medical help are those who believe they are limited to this body and this planet/realm

Correct.

Relevant.

Good Stuff. Have an upvote

It is a legitimate question for sure.

I remember existence/life prior to being born, as pure consciousness, and getting a preview of this actual prison planet we are living in and the prison cell meat suits we are inhabiting.

Here are 'others' like myself who remember life before being born:

http://www.prebirthmemories.com/prebirth_memories.htm

Also, I know of a guy who posted one of his memories and he remembers being forced into incarnating, against his will, which opens up a whole other can of worms.

You can see a discussion I had about this here: https://np.reddit.com/r/Psychonaut/comments/3fdmbs/when_do_you_guys_think_science_will_finally/?ref=search_posts

Some things to chew on:

https://np.reddit.com/r/C_S_T/comments/4dmmzi/when_did_the_abrahamic_god_stop_requiring/d1vdrpl

[deleted]

Awesome stuff! I've talked to kids who remember as we. A friend's of mine 4 year old said, "i still have a sister and a brother up there who will come later." Lo and behold, she ends up with a sister and brother eventually just like she said.

Also, in my pre-existent state, I wasn't nothing. I was pure consciousness, but without a body and without ego. That state is AMAZING, so free, unrestricted, no death, connected to the source consciousness, I'm looking forward to the day of going back home

Thanks for that website :) I don't have pre-birth memories but I have an interest in the unexplained and I don't discount the possibility of anything. Very cool stories.

Show us first that there is a heaven

Pre-birth memories and near death experiences.

Show me that heaven doesn't exist

[deleted]

It was a Oneness that everyone is connected to. There wasn't any egomaniacal psychopath from my prebirth memories.

The gOD of the Jews was some lower demigod who had a wife named asherah as his consort. Jews scrubbed Asherah from the history books because it made women equal and it proved their origins weren't monotheistic.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1ik5oi_the-bible-s-buried-secrets-ep-2-did-god-have-a-wife_tech

but hey, if that's what you believe the afterlife is about, you'll be in for a dissappointment when you get there...but relieved to be away from this prison shithole

Good Stuff. Have an upvote

What sucks is the: possibility of having to reincarnate, knowing that we're not from here in this artificial disconnected lower realm and still having to be here, being around the majority and seeing just how stupid most are and that you belong in a different grade.

This is an entirely understandable perspective. However, we must realize that there are many different spiritual particulars responsible for our identities manifesting in any given place at any given time, and there might be a specific reason as to why we are in a particularly bad or devolved environment during a certain stage of our spiritual journey. We must realize that the most spiritually/emotionally/psychologically evolved humans on this planet are, after all, but the tiniest of babes still as compared to some of the more advanced beings living in this practically limitless universe. Yes, it is true that some of us might be ninth graders in a sea of sixth and seventh graders, as a result of which we might spend a lot of our time rolling our eyes and being frustrated at having to be surrounded by so many sixth and seventh graders that are so far below us in their development, but we must try to realize that we ourselves are still in only ninth grade and there are seniors above us that look down upon us. There are spiritual identities that have already "gone off to college", so to speak - to say nothing of those who are in the spiritual equivalent of graduate school and post doctorate programs (and even less of those who are spiritual "adults", are done with all their schooling, and are now out working “in the real world”/universe).

As such, we might be ninth graders…and, as ninth graders, we might be frustrated at being surrounded by kids….but we must not forget…we’re still only ninth graders at best.

Although we might feel that we don’t “belong here”, there may actually be a purpose for it whose ultimate reason at present might escape us. Because of this possibility, it seems better to simply do one’s best with what one has while one is here, and do everything one can to develop and evolve oneself in such a manner that will allow them to GTFO of this realm and never have to come back after their “tour of duty” on this hell planet is done and over with.

Ultimately, I agree with you though. It does suck. It feels to some/many of us as though we are in a veritable spiritual prison. Why are we in this prison? Well…I have my ideas, but I can’t ultimately say that I’m super sure as to why it is. I do think that it’s possible to accomplish some level of self-development WHILE we’re here that might help/aid in keeping us from having to come back if we don’t have to, however (although, of course, many of us will indeed return - lamentably).

if you study Near death experiences, the suicides go to a 'certain place.' and let's just put it this way, I wouldn't want to be with that group of souls

You’re correct. Much documentation (NDE and otherwise) seems to show that if one spiritually drops out of school/escapes from prison/goes AWOL from their tour of duty on this battlefield (chose your analogy) the results won’t be greatly pleasurable for the identity involved.

And I’d say that this does suck because I’m tired of being here and really want to GTFO of this shit planet (lol smh).

Super interested in your take on what you think.

It’s not entirely dissimilar to where it seems you’re kind of going with your perspective.

God is everything. Being everything, there is nothing that God isn’t. Logically and necessarily, this means that there is “all good” inside “all bad” and “all bad” inside “all good”. Crazy paradox, of course, but if this in fact wasn’t the case, then that would mean that God isn’t existing in and as everything there is…and if God wasn’t existing in any certain thing, then that would mean that there would be something that existed outside of the power of The All - i.e. that God isn’t omnipresent (i.e. present in and as everything) - which is a contradiction in terms since, as established above, God is Everything already. God is the yin and the yang, the good and the bad.

As such, much as I may not like currently being where I am AT ALL, I also understand that I am (as all of us are) one with (and as) The Great Identity…so I’ll/we’ll be out of this hell hole eventually since this type of dark existence (here on this planet) isn't the only type of existence in the entire expanse of God's limitless creations.

Also are you aware of the lower god Demiurge/Demigod theory of a being who created the physical in order to imprison souls away from the true infinite source, because Demi believes it is the 1 true God, due to ignorance and forgetfulness of its own source/origins

Yes. I am aware of at least some aspect of this. From my perspective, however, even if A) that demiurge exists, and B) it lasts/exists/lives for a billion millennia, what that means is that, well, after a billion millennia, that demiurge will be dead, and it will be absorbed right back into that from which it came - i.e. God Itself.

What that means is that this demiurge itself is only but a doodle that God has drawn upon the scribble pad of Its existence - and the paper upon which this demiurge is drawn will eventually get crumpled up and thrown in the trash by The Great Doodler who drew it in the first place.

Ultimately, we’re all just doodles in the proverbial hand of God. Some doodles are bigger and take a bit longer to draw than others. Some doodles look mean and intimidating and gnash their teeth and growl and are even depicted hurting and eating other doodles.

At the end of the day, however, no matter how many crazy doodles might be drawn, and no matter how much God might identify with Its drawings, The Great Doodler will always be greater than Its doodles.

The key is to try to identify with The Doodler and not with the doodle you're drawn as.

TL;DR: As The Big Lebowski might say, "Be The Great Doodler, dude. Just be The Great Doodler. Don’t identify as just the doodle The Great Doodler draws. We’re more than just that."