It's no better here on Reddit. Anti vax statements will be down voted en masse

So many people paid to do that, we should report the fake pharma troll reviewers to IMDB

I have to say that I believe vaccines work. Now hate on me all you want. What I also belive is that nothing is 100%. Some people are bound to have negative effects. We make due with what we have.

Sure something's like the flu virus we should let take its course. It should not be forced to take like some places have you do. Heard of nurses and such that are forced to take it save for some circumstances like their god or whatever.

Other things like polio or the others have been around for a reason. So many people died to get those where they are today. Its a shame, but if not for those early men trying to eradicate the "plagues" that effected us so long ago we would be fucked now.

I have learned that someone will always have a negative idea for every positive. Such is humanity. So in closing do it or don't. Its only your life or the life of the ones around you that will be effected.

I also think vaccines work. I just don't trust big pharma.

Yeah its obvious that an entity thats only purpose is to generate money doesnt have your best ideas on its list of shit to do.

The companies that I have stock in don't have to answer to me unless my stock doesn't go up. Personally I don't give a fuck how they get me my money. I am sure the rest of us are the same (shareholders).

Yeah, they definitely work...as ideal poison delivery systems. Vaccines don't work. If they did, independent human safety and efficacy trials would back them up.

I believe vaccines have the potential to work, but with pharmaceutical companies having complete immunity it eliminates the necessity to make the safest and most effective vaccines possible.

something's like the flu virus we should let take its course

In the States alone, a few thousand people die each year from influenza.

And how many get sick directly from the vaccine?

I did first time I had one.

Nice anecdote, next you'll say it was worse or the same as the actual flu.

Maybe you wouldn't vaccinate your kids, or an elderly person in your care, but I'd say that's abusive and people shouldn't be in your care if you make decisions like that.

anecdotes contain raw data, so stop being anti-science. it WAS the flu.

so stop yourself if you are capable.

I noticed you never try this bullshit in fresh and busy threads.

Well its great you don't make the laws. Or me huh?

Nothing great about knowing people exist that would let their own child or other loved one die or suffer because of nonsense they fell for.

Let me get this right. You have zero confidence in the human body to handle the common flu?

Better that we engineer so called supplemented milder versions to get sick with so that an organism that evolves so quickly can get an even better foothold?

I am not I virologist or claim to know what exactly I am talking about. What I do know is what I see. Now I see that when I had the flu shot I got sick. Very sick actually. So I didn't take it the next year. Didn't get sick.

Took it another year and got sick again. Very much so. There is a commonality thru these trials. You can go ahead and add the 4 subtract the 1 and figure it out on your own.

True vaccines for shit like polio or diphtheria yeah them work! Never said they didn't.

Let me get this right

And then you follow with shit you made up in your own mind that I not only never typed, I didn't even type anything close to that.

Troll someone else.

I see people like to throw that statistic around. Who are these thousands of people who die from influenza? Most likely people suffering from other ailments like HIV.

Mostly the very young and very old, not mostly people with HIV. Worldwide the stats are much more sobering.

It's so odd that here you are using technology to communicate a rejection of technology based on nonsense you've fallen for.

Follow Mercola, Wakefield, etc, you'll get dumber.

One of my son's had a coin stuck in this throat for months and had to have surgery to get it removed. All the infections and possibly medicines affected him at a very key time in his development(8mon to 18mon). He wrestled in high school, he's a tough guy, but because of reduced lung capacity, an illness could weaken him to the point of not being able to overcome the illness.

His mother works at a hospital, so she gets them free flu shots. They do fine with the flu shots. My son just got back from Cochella, he's pretty sick right now.

"so odd that here you are using tech to"

NOPE. NOT ODD AT ALL. you can indeed use the master's tools to dismantle the master's house. what fucking choice do you have? stop fucking trolling and take a hike.

Hopefully you don't have children of your own, and if that ever happens, you either get real with evidence based medicine, or someone removes you from their health care decisions.

what you don't realize is that vaccines are a eugenics program. it is a good idea to learn the FULL HISTORY of something before speaking on it.

this woman is amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anSokq_uebM

So the polio vaccine is bullshit? Or a great many others?

Is the benifits of not having these vaccines worth the price?

To be fair, anything that's not popular opinion on a board gets downvoted en masse here. Like how my comments are getting brigaded (because I think vaccines are cool) even though I'm trying to add to the discussion :\

Welcome to the club. I've been downvoted for saying I support vaccination efforts, but that I also value individual liberty and would never mandate vaccinations. I mean, that seems a reasonable, well-thought-out position to me... apparently not to others.

Yeahhhhh, I've just been upvoting anything that contributes to discussion or the imdb thing and downvoting irrelevant stuff/name-calling on either side. It sucks that people feel like they have to downvote you if they disagree, it'd be much more productive to talk about it :\

no, what would be productive is if you do your fucking homework first instead of coming up in here whining.

so you're upholding the reddit "downvote not a dislike button!11!" horseshit to squash dissent.

it's whatever the fuck we say it is.

We all think vaccines are cool... That has nothing to do with the anti vax movement. Mostly antivaxers just don't trust the pharma industry with injecting their infant children with a mystery syringe. I for one am all for vaccination, I just want to somehow open source the vaccines.

And I agree with that! I've been trying to promote that sort of scrutiny this whole thread and I'm getting slammed with downvotes because I still believe vaccines do more good than bad. I genuinely want to continue a discussion with people but I can't because I get called a shill and then get downvoted :\

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Rule 10 is not a complicated rule.

No sarcasm allowed?

tobacco isn't a bad thing in itself, it can cause "adverse reactions" just like vaccines, but the additional chemical additives used in the processing of and manufacture of tobacco cigarettes are extremely dangerous, the same is true of vaccines - it says so right on the fucking vaccine vial/the box it comes in, "potential for extreme adverse reactions", there is a federal vaccine damage victim's compensation fund for kids turned retarded by the vaccines, it already exists, it's already validated by the government.

but, just like all the easily fooled retards and corrupt doctors/med establishments used to do with cigarettes, they are paid to say "there's no problem here, these are good for your health, us doctors suggest 3 cigarettes a day at least, and X Brand too!". and "best practices from our pharma friends indicate that there's nothing wrong with smoking!". They literally did the same thing with smoking that they are doing with vaccine damage now - pretending there's nothing wrong, paying people to defraud everyone, and getting away with it because people are so fucking easy to brainwash, attacking people in the media, hiding and providing fraudulent research data and studies, etc. This is par for the course with the medical establishment.

it's obvious that there's a problem with chemicals in vaccines, otherwise there wouldn't be a federal vaccine damage victim's compensation fund in DC for kids whose parents can prove they were irreversibly damaged by vaccines, and it's obvious that people get damaged by them commonly enough to cause epidemic of problems related to vaccines. when you say "you think vaccines are cool", what are you actually saying? go watch the free documentary "Bought" and then tell us about how your views afterward, or try to debunk the facts contained there, or try to justify your view.

who knows, maybe you're just a PR firm troll paid to respond "reasonably" (just like the "reasonable" response by doctors in the past to the ''ridiculous claim'' that smoking kills or is dangerous) any time vaccines are mentioned.

god knows the pharmaceutical companies can afford PR firm work, can't they? I was never big on the whole "vaccine debate" because I think everyone in it is retarded as they ignore and deny obvious facts, like the fact that vaccines say right on the warning label posted on the product box/vial that it can cause extremely severe 'adverse reactions' that can result in brain damage or systemic health damage. So what kind of idiot is going to say "vaccines are cool"? The IDEA of inoculating people against diseases "is cool", shooting dangerous chemical-laced drugs into little kids veins without concern because you're too stupid to hold the pharmaceutical company to simple safety standards? That's not so cool. But the retarded masses get their views from TV, and TV says "you're bad if you question vaccination, you're evil evil bad bad bad".

Have you looked at the warning label on the vaccines? What does it say? Why then do you think it's cool to risk giving kids brain damage or systemic chronic autoimmune diseases? What you said about vaccines doing more good than bad, how do we know that if we're not allowed to look into it or discuss it? Some people would say the same about smoking, "it does more good than bad for humanity due to the economics involved". The dead and the damaged would disagree, not that this would ever reach the ears of the very rich who think earth is too overpopulated anyway and that they're doing everyone a service by destroying humans and preventing people from breeding by making them sick or retarded.

I'm encouraging you to question the pharmaceutical companies! I agree with you that we need to put more time and money to scientifically look at everything! I don't trust em either, so it's incredibly frustrating to get slammed as a shill when I'm not. What do you want me to do, post a time stamped pic of me sitting in bed unemployed?

I just genuinely believe that the adverse effects are outweighed by the good they can do. You don't have to insult me for saying I think they're cool, I try to be a nice, positive guy and that's just how I talk. I think it's awesome we managed to eradicate smallpox and are on the verge of wiping out polio. I think it's really neat that we're capable of creating chemicals that trick our bodies in so many different ways into developing immunities to horrible diseases. And I personally think that as of right now, it's safer to get vaccinated because the adverse effects are significantly rarer than the diseases they protect against.

But that's just my opinion. I'm not trying to tell you I know best, I've just been trying to share what I know to have an actual discussion. But that's really hard because I get downvoted and called a shill before a real discussion starts, and I'm genuinely frustrated. I want to talk about this and everyone shits on me for having a slightly different opinion when I actually agree with everyone here that it's good to be more skeptical and examine everything closer.

I'd love to talk about all of this but I'm a real person, not some government drone. I'm just an unemployed fuck sitting around wanting to have a discussion where I'm not shut down immediately as a "shill" or a "troll" or an "easily fooled retard."

Mindless cheerleading for vaccines doesn't sit well here, because it's obvious that they are not a universal panacea to anybody who spends a little time looking into the issues.

Here's a little situation for you to ponder. The Pandemrix vaccine is thought to be moderately effective against H1N1 (swine flu), and it was widely prescribed across the EU. Unfortunately, it appears to have caused incurable narcolepsy in hundreds of children who received the vaccine.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/07/why-pandemic-flu-shot-caused-narcolepsy

Do you think Pandemrix is "cool" and would you want a child of yours to be given the vaccine?

If you look through my comments, I'm just as adamant about you about being more skeptical about the process by which vaccines are approved. If you'd read through the rest of the thread, you'd see I'm not a mindless cheerleader and I recognize there are risks that should really be worked out. I don't think that companies should push out untested vaccines, I think doing so is criminal. There should be skepticism on both sides because this isn't a black and white scenario.

You misinterpret what I mean by "cool" though and it's kind of condescending. The science behind any vaccine is awesome. But it should be strenuously tested before it's ever administered. I genuinely think everyone should read everything before they decide.

The science behind neurology is "cool" as well, especially how we have known for over a century that heavy metals are neurotoxic and degrade the synaptic firing of neurons, and are related to Alzheimer's and many other degenerative diseases. So why then must we fucking use Mercury in our vaccines? Why must they have huge doses of aluminum in them as well? These are confirmed poisons, so when I say that it might not be the best idea to give 30 doses of vaccines to a newborn baby, it seems fucking insane that the responses I get are being labeled "anti-science".

Jesus, you're absolutely nuts

nope, it is YOU who are nuts.

because anti-vax is moronic

Yeah I mean the pharmaceutical companies are total transparant and trust worthy and doctors never reccomended Marlboro over Winston cigarettes.

Never happened. Ever.

Shill.

Let's not forget

They have a great, proven track record as well. Blindly trust the people who wilfully poisoned you.

Absolutely! Look at thalidomide! Those babies went on to be Olympic gold athletes!

Yeah you should totally trust the companies that set-up fake medical journals in Australia to convince doctors their products are 100% safe and effective.

You should totally trust the companies that use last years vaccines as placebos instead of a saline solution.

You should totally trust the companies that only test vaccines on healthy children and then deem them appropriate for all children.

You should totally trust the studies where the write off SIDs, bleeding behind the eyes, seizures, etc. ass "non-vaccine related" without any further studies.

You should totally trust the companies that test vaccines independently and then deem them safe to combine into multi-vaccine combinations.

According to the average poster on a conspiracy sub eh? Bollocks. Pretty transparent shilling.

And look, anti-anti vax gets downvoted to oblivion here. How is that different? Everyone just choosing to believe a story, not like anyone here is actually on the forefront of the research, for or against.

The conversations is a lot more nuanced that pro vs anti. The shills set-up a false dichotomy so that people are forced to choose a side claiming the anti side is against science. When in fact most people are pro SAFER vaccines and pro BETTER science without big pharmas money polluting the well.

Not pro-vaccine, not anti-vaccine. I'm not a doctor or molecular biologist/chemist or any of that shit, so how would I really even know? I'm a simple laborer acknowledging that people smarter than me are making millions/billions off of this and they want to keep making all that money, so they will obviously gloss over any negatives there could be about vaccines. I'm sure they save more lives than they ruin, but people deserve to know that risks are involved.

You're very wise to be cautious, after many years investigating this in detail, I can confidently confirm that vaccines there as an attempt to make people sick, meaning that Big Pharma make more money from them as customers. Big Pharma want sick people, their business wouldn't exist without sick people.

Hey, I posted a bit about a few commonly feared ingredients that are understandably misunderstood by lots of folks up here! If you have any specific questions about negatives (or positives), I'd be happy to try to answer them for ya! :) Like I said there though, I'm no expert, just have a bit of experience in a doctor's office and enjoy crunching data :P

EDIT: I'm trying to add to the discussion. just because my opinion isn't the same as yours, you don't have to downvote me... If you don't agree, let's talk about it. Maybe you can change my mind. Don't be a dick and downvote for being a dissenter, I'm not doing that to y'all :\

You've been posting marketing and PR, so I'd strongly recommend people not to take your advice. You compare oral Aluminum to injected Aluminum, credibility lost right away

The Effect of Aluminum in Vaccines on Humans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCzdliixnmI

Appreciate the video, that's interesting! I haven't heard about that and I admit my sources for the Al thing were a bit biased. I'm not trying to give advice though, as I said I'm not an expert in any way, just trying to do my best to have constructive conversation about the topic. I agree that we should be critical of anything important like this (which is why I lurk here), there's always going to be steps we can take towards making medicine safer.

Also no idea what you mean about posting marketing and PR, my only posts to reddit before now have been to try to find people to play Destiny with lol

If you're giving incorrect information, how in the fuck is that constructive? If you haven't even done research, why do you find the need to participate in a conversation? That's not constructive at all, in fact -- that's destructive. You are lowering the quality of conversation by speaking.

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lol if anyone wants to pay me shill, hit me up because I'll do just about anything for some cash right now, I haven't had a real meal in a few days :')

All joking aside though, not a penny. If I was getting paid, I'd probably get fired because I've already had to correct myself with stuff about injectable/ingestible aluminum I hadn't heard about before. And I'm also encouraging skepticism because I think stuff could always be safer.

Those down votes are paid for..lol

What about the up votes?

Currently sitting at 1354 10/10. Really? Or is it only paid for when it's against the movie?

Average vote 7.5 /10 REALLY!!!

Do you know what an average is?

We know what you would claim. Transparent.

Wow, the vaccine industry has the shills out in force. Here's some knowledge;

It's easy. Do NOT ever vaccinate. Ever. They are created by scum bag companies who DO NOT GIVE A FUCK AB HUMANS.

Mandatory vaccines are unreal. This is Brave New World stuff.

Big Pharma has the net crawling with trolls and the inherently brainwashed. YOU guys can go get all the shots you want from these SCUM Big Pharma companies.

It boggles my mind how all these people GET MAD and attack people who don't get vaccines from Corrupt Corporations which have literally committed dozens of crimes and been convicted of these crimes.

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Let's trust big PHARMA GUYS! I wouldn't trust these companies to wash my car let alone INJECT an unknown highly toxic cocktail into my body.

http://www.naturalnews.com/036417_Glaxo_Merck_fraud.html

According to U.S. federal investigators, GlaxoSmithKline (http://www.naturalnews.com/036416_GlaxoSmith...):

• Routinely bribed doctors with luxury vacations and paid speaking gigs • Fabricated drug safety data and lied to the FDA • Defrauded Medicare and Medicaid out of billions • Deceived regulators about the effectiveness of its drugs • Relied on its deceptive practices to earn billions of dollars selling potentially dangerous drugs to unsuspecting consumers and medical patients

Books for further research,

http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-nation-Poisoning-Population-Shot-Time/dp/0984595422/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1418724787&sr=1-1&keywords=vaccine+conspiracy

http://www.amazon.com/Dissolving-Illusions-Disease-Vaccines-Forgotten/dp/1480216895/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_z

The whistle blowers are coming out in droves, protect yourself, protect your children/family.

Not trying to antagonize at all, but what about herd immunity? Do you not believe it exists or do you think the risk of disease out weigh the risk of shoddy vaccines?

Also, I think I'm one of the "shills" you're talking about, but I think lots of people on either side of the issue agree with you that we should look at big, corporate stuff that puts profit above people with a whole lot of scrutiny. Safer medicine is what both sides of this want, and I personally believe the possible risks of vaccines are outweighed by the benefits.

Would you mind explaining why you believe the benefits are outweighed by the risks? Hope this doesn't come off as condescending, I'm genuinely interested.

Because children are going into the doctor's office healthy individuals, and leaving that same day individuals with nerve damage, sleep disorders, cognitive impairments, and some of them are even dying. How is that okay?

I'm going to just respond to all three of your comments here because having 3 places to resond to each other is gonna get annoying for us both real fast.

I never said anything of the sort is okay. I'd be the first to say that we should continue making vaccines safer and safer - releasing unsafe vaccines (or any unsafe medicine) is downright criminal and I think pharmaceutical companies should be held accountable for thoroughly testing them before they're ever even considered for public use.

I am not giving out incorrect information. I made a mistake in one of my earlier comments and promptly edited it, including a video that discusses the difference in injectable vs. ingestible aluminum. The other stuff is correct. I was wrong at first, but I learned something new today and so might someone else now, that's prettyyyyyy damn constructive in my opinion.

I think medicine is "cool." Sue me. No I don't think the shitty parts of medicine are cool. I want safety as much as you. But here's the thing, there are vaccines options without thimerosal (the compound containing mercury everyone talks about) for every type of immunization on the schedule. In the few vaccines that do include it, it's in trace amounts as it's only a preservative. Mercury is commonly found in nature in the form of methylmercury - if you ate tuna (I think that's the right fish) constantly you might suffer from mercury poisoning. Trace amounts won't hurt you though and eventually get cleared from your system. Thimerosal on the other hand is an ethylmercury (the FDA considers it equal in toxicity) which gets cleared even faster, making it less likely to cause harm. To kill a rat with thimerosal, you have to inject it with nearly 5 grams of thimerosal, at which point the poor guys kicked the can. From a quick google, the most thimerosal you could get by choosing to have one of the vaccines containing thimerosal is roughly 25 micrograms, or 0.000025 grams. If you still don't want vaccines with thimerosal, there are plenty of options that don't include it, but thimerosal isn't straight mercury. It's a compound containing mercury which the body handles completely differently, that's why all seafood enthusiasts aren't rolling around with Alzheimer's. That said though, anything is toxic in large enough quantities, (I'm sure you've heard of people dying from chugging too much water) but you're never going to get close to that amount from vaccines alone. Thimerosal sometimes causes tenderness and redness at the injection site, and at worst, an allergic which is shitty, but no where near Alzheimer's shitty.

I don't think you're "anti-science," I won't argue with you that more REAL research should be done on these compounds before they're used in something that's being injected into kids. And I'll be honest with you, I don't know much about aluminum in vaccines so I won't be the one to talk with you about that. But yeah, that's my two cents.

"Vaccine ‘herd immunity’ is hit-and-miss; outbreaks of disease sometimes erupt in those who follow recommended vaccine schedules. If they do actually “immunize”, vaccines provide only short-term immunity so, in an attempt to maintain ‘herd immunity’, health authorities hold ‘cattle drives’ to round up older members of the ‘herd’ for administration of booster shots. And on it goes, to the point that, now, it’s recommended we accept cradle-to-grave shots of vaccine against pertussis, a disease which still persists after more than sixty years of widespread use of the vaccine.

Russell Blaylock, MD remarks, “One of the grand lies of the vaccine program is the concept of “herd immunity”. In fact, vaccines for most Americans declined to non-protective levels within 5 to 10 years of the vaccines. This means that for the vast majority of Americans, as well as others in the developed world, herd immunity doesn’t exist and hasn’t for over 60 years.”3

In the pre-vaccine era, newborns could receive antibodies against infectious diseases from their mothers who had themselves been infected as children and re-exposed to the diseases later in life. Today’s babies born to mothers who were vaccinated and never exposed to these diseases do not receive these antibodies. In direct contrast to fear mongering disease “facts” and ‘herd immunity’ theories related by Public Health, most of today’s babies are more vulnerable than babies of the pre-vaccine era."

Herd immunity refers to the immunity conferred by actually contracting and surviving the disease within a population. Not the artificial, temporary immunity conferred by vaccination. See links below for more information.

I personally believe there are benefits to vaccines and I believe they work for the most part. I've never gotten measles or diphtheria. I also think like any medicine, overdose is toxic. And I think injecting infants and toddlers is akin to medical battery and until we have real systems in place to identify and screen out those who will have adverse reactions, I will continue to say no to vaccines. There are some vaccines I'd reevaluate when my children are at an age and weight I think is reasonable to subject them to what is an undeniable assault to their systems. But chickenpox? Measles? Fuck off with that shit. Those are inflammatory diseases that when contracted normally in childhood PRIME the immune system to fight off other, more serious diseases. LIKE FUCKING CANCER. http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

More on herd immunity. http://vaccine-injury.info/tetyana.cfm

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/the-herd-immunity-myth-and-how-it-pits-parent-against-parent/

http://www.stopmandatoryvaccination.com/public-health/myth-4-herd-immunity/

Herd immunity is and has always been 100% fiction. If these assholes want to pump themselves and their loved ones full of known poisons, be my guest. I will never vaccinate. You're vaccinated. According to your belief, you're safe. Now fuck off about thinking that I will ever need to.

Vaccines might not always work, but at least they decrease the likelihood of contracting the disease or make the symptoms less severe. As someone who has had pertussis, it fucking sucks, but my coughs weren't nearly as bad as the coughs of an unvaccinated person, like babies too young to receive the shot (I apologize because this video is kind of upsetting to watch). Herd immunity may be hit or miss at times, but when it comes to little kids like in the video, I personally would prefer fewer chances of potential carriers.

But yeah, I definitely agree there's always room for improvement. Kids staying indoors and not going out and playing in the dirt like I assume you and I both did will leave them lacking natural antibodies we both would have acquired as kids. Then you have bacteria adapting to the point it's immune to antibiotics and you have a whole load of unprecedented public health issues. It's bizarre and fascinating how these sorts of things adapt so quickly, and I'd be the first to say we should probably be looking at other ideas as everything is changing so quickly that it's hard to keep track of. That said though, the measles is awful and I personally believe the benefits far outweigh any risks the MMR vaccine presents. A kid who gets the MMR vaccine has a 1 in 3 million chance of dying if they get measles. Without the vaccine, that number drops to 1 in 1,000. There's that old little anecdote that if you go to places in Africa where measles is still a big problem, parents don't give their children real names until after they've survived the disease. That not something I'd personally ever want to risk putting my kid through.

I find it very curious that I answered your question about herd immunity - which I ONLY answered because I thought you framed the question more respectfully than is typical of pro-vaxxers - and you immediately shifted the goal posts of the conversation. The myth of herd immunity is the crux of the argument when discussing pro-mandate policies when it comes to vaccines. I've posted a lot of resources that debunk vaccine-based herd immunity as a legitimate argument for forcing what is tantamount to medical rape upon another human being. Your response can be summed up as follows: "It's hit or miss at times but because of this isolated incident I found on the internet, I'd rather your children absorb the risks of injury and death because I don't agree with your evaluation of the risk/benefit, and if your kid does have an adverse reaction, I'll just call it a coincidence anyway. So vaccinate. Whether you like it or not."

It's rare for children to die of pertussis. And it's rare, but a lot of kids have died from DTAP. Here's a particularly sad case.. You can google DTAP deaths and search the VAERS database if you want to look into this more.

Shifting the goal posts. It's a pretty common tactic when trying to unpack all the misinformation that exists on both sides of this argument. I find it hypocritical of the pro-vaccine community at best, because when one of us has seen a child go in for a round of vaccines and come out permanently damaged, we're told it's rare and uncommon, thanks for taking one for the team, anecdotal evidence doesn't matter, or, most commonly, we're met with flat out denial or called liars. But I'm going to answer a couple of the points you raised here.

Let's start with pertussis. Pertussis has now evolved to the point that the vaccine isn't working anymore. Or if you'd like to hear it from the CDC yourself, this link takes you to the CDC press conference in which they directly admit that pertussis outbreaks are NOT a result of people refusing to vaccinate It's about halfway through, but here's the direct quote: "We know there are places around the country where there are large numbers of people who aren't vaccinated. However, we don't think those exemptors are driving this current wave. We think it is a bad thing that people aren't getting vaccinated or exempting, but we cannot blame this wave on that phenomenon."

DTAP is also vaccine that receives a lot of heat for causing adverse reactions in infants and toddlers. So as a parent, I had to make a decision around that one, because I too have seen that heartbreaking video of the baby gasping for air and didn't want my babies to go through that either. My choice was to keep my babies away from the public and douse every visitor with hand sanitizer until I felt that they were at an age and weight that they could withstand pertussis. I respect and fully support people who feel that vaccination is their best means of protection. But I will fight to the death ANYONE who tries to force that decision on me. If pro-vaxxers want to get through to parents like me, the bullying, mandating, and complete and utter disregard for those who have watched their children become permanently injured and even killed has to stop. Every death is sad.

Measles is NOT a big deal in developed countries. Measles is not (and never was) a deadly disease in developed countries. It’s “an illness characterized by a rash, cough, and fever over 101 degrees.” Measles is, however, deadly when people are nutritionally deficient, particularly in reserves of Vitamin A. According to the World Health Organization, “Severe measles is more likely among poorly nourished young children, especially those with insufficient vitamin A, or whose immune systems have been weakened by HIV/AIDS or other diseases. [..] As high as 10% of measles cases result in death among populations with high levels of malnutrition and a lack of adequate health care. […] More than 95% of measles deaths occur in countries with low per capita incomes and weak health infrastructures. […] Overcrowding in residential camps greatly increases the risk of infection.”

Most of our parents/grandparents had and survived the measles with little complication, just as most of our generation had and survived the chickenpox with very little complication. Our elders didn't fear the measles, just like I don't fear the chickenpox. I had it twice. I was itchy and uncomfortable. I now have lifelong immunity. Oh, and before you tell me that I'm now at added risk for getting shingles, take a look at this study that says CP vaccination increases the risk of shingles.

There are risks to vaccinating and there are risks to not vaccinating. Every parent has to evaluate the risks and decide what is best for their families. I support that fully, and I try to stay very conscious not to judge others for their choices. Where I have a problem is when people can't afford the same courtesy to me, and that is why parents like me will ALWAYS push back.

Thank you. I don't know if it is Big Pharma trolls, or brainwashed sheeples, but Reddit is overflowing with pro-vaxxer / Big Pharma shills. Doesn't make sense considering how young and open minded the general populace of Reddit is on most issues...

Thank you, thank you.

I think the vax anti vax thing is a slippery slope. On one hand it's entirely necessary to immunize and great antibodies to fight certain diseases and things like smallpox and tetanus etc. However, on the other hand to down play the greater picture of that, which is that "what ever THESE PEOPLE, whoever they may be, be they government, or the FDA, or my peers, but whatever they say I should take because such and such reason, etc" without question is equally as dumb.

there's a difference between being against vaccination and putting pressure to develop safer vaccines.

Agreed, my mistake! I am FOR vaccines and for putting pressure to develop safer vaccines. Just against the mob-rule approach to just accepting something to put into our bodies or the bodies of our children without full understanding and transparency to what it is within it and why it is essential to do so. I am in full agreement with you!

I wasn't trying to disagree with you. I agree completely with what you said, too. :)

Word brother! :)

Ok but immunization is not vaccination. They are two different words which mean different things.

Absolutely, I accept my mistake there, and apologize for the misunderstanding. Thanks!

it's entirely necessary to immunize and great antibodies to fight certain diseases and things like smallpox and tetanus etc.

Not true at all, Small Pox is eradicated, and Tetanus is more about cleaning wounds, even so Tetanus can easily be dealt with a course of antibiotics, and an injection of tetanus antitoxin.

The Tetanus vaccine is one of the most dangerous, a lot of compensation has been paid out for vaccine damage from that vaccine. Many people go down with Asthma not long after the injection, Asthma kills thousands every year, but it makes money for Big Pharma as does the vaccine, hence why it is continued.

Correct, yeah I confused immunization with vaccines, and I got a word auto-corrected there, meant "create". And I agree with that!

Also a bunch of the 'reviewers' were from Europe. The film is not out there yet, unless they flew to the US just to see it. Also I've never seen a film with such polarized ratings

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt5562652/ratings?ref_=tt_ov_rt

It seems the women above age 30 give a rating above an 8. These are the mothers who have done the research and know their children.

Nice find!!

Is this about how vaccines cause autism?

Or is it about after they moved those goalposts and claimed that it was thimerosal that caused autism?

Or is it about after they moved those goalposts and claimed that it was aluminum that caused autism?

Or is it about after they moved those goalposts and claimed that aluminum has to be injected to cause autism?

Or is it about after they moved those goalposts and claimed that no individual vaccine causes autism but it's the accelerated schedule of vaccines that cause autism?

...

It's about one of the key studies done by the CDC in 2004 with regards to autism and vaccines. They found a link, then they violated their own study protocol and manipulated the data set until they made it go away. One of the study authors blew the whistle, confessed to his crime, and dumped all the documents the CDC thought they had destroyed at their dustbin party.

Oh, the William Thompson story? The #CDCWhistleblower?

That's some tired Raging Bullshit, there. Are they already moving the goalposts on his story?

It doesn't matter what someone claims about this. There have been multiple efforts in multiple countries even trying to detect a link between autism and vaccines and it's simply statistically not there.

Inb4: "But WHAT ABOUT VAERS and vaccine COURT!?!?!? HAHA SHILL!". Yes, some miniscule number of kids suffer adverse reactions and the VAERS database records it and in some extraordinarily rare cases where the vaccines demonstrably caused serious problems the court awarded the family money for damages. This system was set up precisely because vaccines need to be safe, and while nothing is 100% perfect, vaccines are too important to the good of the many.

are too important to the good of the many

Fuck you and fuck the many

So many 'critical' posts but nice to see it getting some upvotes regardless 88/93% ++

I just want a future where I can choose to be vaccinated or not.

Would you pay a higher insurance premium if you opt out of being vaccinated?

I would, if it was based on real world numbers...

No because the science is not there I'm actually doing my body better by not injecting it with heavy metals.

Which heavy metals are you talking about?

Can anyone tell me a place that I can actually watch the documentary?

Google is just a shit show. I cannot find anywhere to stream it, or download it.

This whole push to hide this Documentary just proves how TRUE their message is.

The fact that they care so much about this, yet don't give a shit about anything in regards to your health is extremely telling. That they NEED to sic their shills out so heavily also speaks volumes. If you're too stupid to recognize, a. thank the fluoride neurotoxin than you're flooded with daily, and b. enjoy the toxins in your vaccines. They probably work. They are probably safe. But no independent study confirms either of these points. If they were so beneficial and crucial, the independent studies would demonstrate that. The absence of these things should raise massive red flags.

item was shipped fast and of high qualities. 5 stars.

Where can we buy/download this movie? I have been trying to get a copy for awhile.

Looks like they are showing it in theatres, first

Thanks for letting me know it's on Netflix! Can't wait to watch!

Lol, Vaccinations don't cause autism, Reddit does.

Are the people here really part of the anti-vax movement? I feel like this sub gets a lot of unfair criticism, but the anti-vax movement is total unscientific nonsense.

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In reality the methods by which vaccines are produced (not the science behind the way they work)

The science they use is appalling, they don't even use real placebos in the safety tests, the safety tests are also incredibly short, none of the tests are independent. The whole process is a fraud. In fact Merck actually added animal antibodies to their Mumps vaccine test results to make it look like that vaccine worked, that's fraud, fortunately the doctors involved have blown the whistle.

Now we've even got a CDC whistleblower admitting that the Autism connection has been covered up, all the studies destroyed so as they never saw the light of day. The CDC needs to be shut down, all current vaccines needed to be removed from the market, it is madness to let this fraudulent and dangerous science to continue. Both G Bush and Obama refused to do anything because of the bad publicity it will bring, so instead they keep the lie going for longer.

Wait I don't want to keep prodding you /u/liverpoolwin but lots of the increases in autism incidence line up well with either changes to polling methods, DSM/diagnosis stuff, or increases in funding for special needs services. I have a graph I made that shows how incidence skyrockets and then a timeline to compare it with if you'd like to see! It's been a while since I worked with it as I've moved on to some different stuff in life, but it's super interesting to see how autism incidence shoots up when special needs services was given increased funding.

Most of my data came from IDEA and they have huge spreadsheets of data available if you don't trust me. Other stuff on the graph was from much older records, and I can try to dig up those sources too if you end up wanting to see the graph!

None of this is to say there aren't additional causes. I agree with you that we need to be sure toxins aren't actually increasing the incidence of autism. The stuff I've found suggests that we might just be getting better at catching ASD stuff now than we were before, but I'd definitely agree with ya if you suggested every aspect of this should be examined with scrutiny.

they don't even use real placebos in the safety tests

This is the same for new cancer drugs that are trying to come to market. No placebos are used. $$$$$$$$cience.

Wait last years vaccines aren't good placebos? /s

as massive quantities are needed, the quality drops to an acceptable level sans aluminum and Mercury; 0.00001% of vaccinated children could theoretically get Mercury or lead poisoning ?

no kids would get either if it was at .ooooo1% heck even now we're not seeing a lot of damage unless they are hiding it and given how profit driven our entire system is hard to imagine they wouldn't...

lead poisoning happens a lot more from the enviroment and builds up in us from using old pipes lead paint toys etc.. Aluminum in any unbound forms not good in the system either but your not gonna get a lot built up unless its like injected mercury's environmental like lead tho in fish and stuff too.

Yes they would, if it was zero it would be zero but it's not because it sounds like aluminum and Mercury fillers can be used... And we all know how profit hungry the system gets, then drop it down a tier the more hands it passes by, could you imagine if scum doctors cut vaccines with other chemicals to further increase profit?

Always lurked here but never posted so inb4 shill lol

I worked in a doctor's office for a while and a couple of my jobs were centered around vaccines. I'll try to be as moderate/fact-based as possible but keep in mind I love vaccines and think they're one of the coolest things around (to the point I wrote some scripts to crunch vax data just for fun) :P

• Aluminum - there's something like 7x the amount of Al in a bottle's worth of breast milk than in any single vaccine. EDIT: A couple users corrected me on this, there may be a difference in the effects of ingestible vs. injectable aluminum as seen in this video

• Mercury - thimerosal (the compound containing Hg) used to be used but is generally not present in modern vax. Some types do have trace amounts of thimerosal, but there are always other options for the same vax that don't have thimerosal.

• Shitty docs cutting vaccines - probably not gonna happen, at least in my state all vaccines purchased and administered have to be meticulously kept track of so gov and office records match perfectly. This probably doesn't ever happen and the majority (if not all) docs would be super against cutting.

I'm happy to answer any questions about this sort of thing to the best of my ability, hopefully I cleared up the Al and Hg thing! Feel free to inbox me if you'd prefer to talk there! :)

EDIT: I'm trying to add to the discussion. just because my opinion isn't yours, you don't have to downvote me... If you don't agree, let's talk. Maybe you can change my mind. Don't be a dick and downvote for being a dissenter, I'm not doing that to y'all :\

Aluminum - there's something like 7x the amount of Al in a bottle's worth of breast milk than in any single vaccine

The aluminum in breast milk goes through the natural process of entering the body through the mouth (and has to pass all the immune-system checks).

Aluminum in vaccines goes straight into the muscle, bypassing all your natural defenses. It's not the same at all

Mercury - thimerosal (the compound containing Hg) used to be used but is generally not present in modern vax. Some types do have trace amounts of thimerosal, but there are always other options for the same vax that don't have thimerosal.

Per CDC, the Flu vaccine still has mercury in it. http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm

There have been no studies that combine aluminum and mercury toxicity from vaccines. The risks are still unknown, but many signs point to inflammation of the brain (which can lead to life long disabilities).

Shitty docs cutting vaccines - probably not gonna happen, at least in my state

It may not happen in your state, but bad batches and other unknowns do occur which cause suffering - for example when Australia banned the flu vaccine in 2010 because dozens of children were being reported as sick or having convulsions hours after the shot.

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/flu-vaccination-ban-goes-national-after-fever-convulsions-in-children-20100422-tglp.html

"I'm happy to answer any questions about this sort of thing to the best of my ability, hopefully I cleared up the Al and Hg thing! Feel free to inbox me if you'd prefer to talk there! :)"

Jesus fucking christ.

Thanks for debunking Wood_Warden's pharma PR, saved me the time, good job!

Wood Warden is the person you're responding to. Way to make us look good, dumbass!

Reading comprehension increasingly is not /r/conspiracy's strong suit.

No need to "jesus fucking christ" me dude, I'm just trying to be nice and get a discussion going about something we all think is important :\

• Haven't heard about the difference between injectable/ingestible Al until now when liverpoolwin posted a vid. As I said, I'm not an expert, just have a bit of experience with this topic (mostly with autism incidence though). I edited my other comment to include his vid because it's definitely worth talking about.

• Yes there are flu vaccines that include thimerosal but as I said, there are also alternatives without. I know all about the whole thing about the risks.

• I'm not saying shitty things like don't happen, just that most docs wouldn't purposefully cut vaccines for extra money. Maybe some pharma company would, they can be dicks, this point was to address the comment above mine focusing on docs doing it.

Look, I'm not looking for a hostile discussion. If I wanted that I'd go to facebook. I came into this thread to offer points from the other side to those that might want to chat because it's always beneficial to talk about this sort of thing. Being critical of medical practices is why we're not still throwing leeches at cancer and saying "hey look somethings happening." I want safe vaccines as much as you dude. And I may not be the most knowledgable about em but I'm happy to admit it, I'd just prefer not to have a "Jesus fucking christ" shouting match about how I'm a stupid shill or something :\

Appreciate the comments!

Lol I appreciate the positivity :) It's definitely worth looking at both sides, but stay skeptical regardless of what you read because there are to be places where either side missteps. Like I said, I'm no expert and would be happy to be corrected at any point, I just wanted to share what little experience/knowledge I have! :)

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Hahahahahahaha sorry my comments from 3 months have upset you so much pal but feel free to continue raging if that's what gets you off. Feel free to check my posting history though, I've only ever talked about vaccines once which would make me the worst shill of all time

Rule 10. Removed. 1st warning.

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Anther comment here discuss the difference ingesting through the mouth vs injecting into muscle. I agree removing these items is the biggest factor

np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4gm48y/of_the_first_25_reviews_on_imdb_for_vaxxed/d2j6hbo

No.

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Your other two points were too stupid to consider, but I'll play anyway: what does lead have to do with this?

I usually use memes here because they're within the attention span of the average anti-vax moron.

If I've underestimated you and you prefer something more erudite, then come back with a report on this:

https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/toxic-myths-about-vaccines/

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"My worldview" - lol.

Which vaccines contain lead and in what concentration?

Pointing out that elements and compounds behave differently chemically is misleading? Ok.

The article addresses your "toxins" like mercury and aluminum. It was further down the article after you stopped reading when you got a little pooped out from the effort.

It's not a simple yes or no: how can a vaccine be equally effective without an adjuvant? What dose of aluminium hydroxyphosphate sulfate is a toxic dose? Since you're asking a la-la land hypothetical question I'd leave the ingredient out if it was magically just as effective and not necessary. And if there were any demonstrable risk from leaving it in then I'd remove it.

You are bought

No. In fairness I think he was sold (on B.S.).

Vaccines have been used as weapons before now.

Vaccines have killed people. This is widely reported in many countries.

Vaccinated people can catch the disease that they have been vaccinated against.

Vaccines are a multi-billion dollar industry.

Whilst these 4 statements are true I cannot trust them, not cause I doubt the science but because the likes of GSK, Bayer and Pfizer are as morally trustworthy as Blackwater and Monsanto or Nestle. They have killed for profit before and will continue to do so unless something drastic changes to affect their business model.

they are also being used to sterilize people

Be weary any time someone tries to distill a conversation into pro/anti, for/against, black/white. Often times things are much more complex than yes/no.

Many people are for SAFER vaccines and BETTER science free of corporate greed and manipulation.

So while I 100% distrust big pharma and I will personally never get another vaccine, it's not because I'm anti-science or anti-vaccine, it's because the companies manufacturing them have time and time again shown us that they are not trust-worthy. Before I allow ANYONE to penetrate my body and bypass my immune system I need to have 100% faith in them.

Great response, sir ;)

This kind of paranoia has been around fora long time

It's not anti-vaccine. It's anti-pharma. God damnit I wish people would understand that.

It's a real hit and miss on this sub. Sometimes you'll be like "That is really thought provoking," and other times you'll say "What in the actual fuck is wrong with these people?"

Don't forget the long tradition of American companies pushing products that they know are harmful...

https://iseethics.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/ddt-is-good-for-me.jpg

The general public seem generally skeptical of big pharma. But when it comes to vaccines it's 100% obedience, no questions asked. Scientifically there are a lot of unknowns. No one has ever tested the vaccine adjuvants individually to prove they are safe. No one knows the cumulative effect of the shots. No one knows if its safe to give 2 vaccines in the same day. Vaccinated vs unvaccinated study? Doesn't exist. In a lot of the safety studies with regards to vaccines, they actually compare against the vaccine adjuvants (or even another vaccine) as apposed to something like saline.

But when it comes to vaccines it's 100% obedience

I see the same, they need a bucket of cold water over their heads

Vaccinated vs unvaccinated study?

Actually, there was a study done before vaccinations were invented. It was called "Real Life."

The results: Lots of deaths due to preventable diseases.

Are you talking about the era before antibiotics, before people had access to clean water on tap, before refrigerators? Because the mortality of many ie measles declined up to 99% before vaccines were introduced.

Because the mortality of many ie measles declined up to 99% before vaccines were introduced.

Got sauce for that?

Google is your friend

Says the one pulling "facts" out of his ass. You're the one trying to defend the argument, not me. It's not my job to find your sources that you want to pretend exist.

Either prove it or STFU with your false numbers.

http://healthimpactnews.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/01/us-measles-1024x637.jpg

Not sure why looking up so readily information yourself was so hard.

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Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

At least you proved my point.

i gave 10/10 ... cause i can

And not because you've seen it?

Got it.

That was not an Requirement

I'm really disappointed in this subreddit. I thought it would be intelligent people talking about real, evidentially backed conspiracy theories, not a bunch of antivaxxers. Smh.

Pro SAFER vaccines. Pro BETTER science free of corporate greed and manipulation.

If you educated yourself, you would know that this is one of the greatestconspiracy stories of our time. Can I "smack your head?"

Guys vaccines don't make you autistic.

People probably made accounts for the sole purpose of giving it a bad rating, I would have.

Considering even the "worst possible case scenario," vaccines give 0.1% of children autism, without a doubt (they don't, but let's just say they do), they still save millions of lives. And from gruesome deaths, at that. You want smallpox to come back? By all means, spout antivaxxing propaganda. I'm not saying I trust those sick mother fuckers one bit, but vaccines are not the part of big pharma to be fighting. Be mad at ridiculous, absurd cancer drug prices, not cheap/free vaccines.

To be fair maybe the people who downvoted it have at least a basic understanding of the scientific method?

And perhaps basic biology? Such as viruses and bacteria mutate, which can render vaccines ineffective....

I think the people here are asking the big-pharma corps to actually USE the scientific method. Most people aren't ANTI vaccine they're PRO safer vaccines and PRO better science free of corporate greed and manipulation.

Creating a false dichotomy where anti-vaxxers are all anti-science is pure shillary.

We all think vaccines are cool... That has nothing to do with the anti vax movement. Mostly antivaxers just don't trust the pharma industry with injecting their infant children with a mystery syringe. I for one am all for vaccination, I just want to somehow open source the vaccines.

tobacco isn't a bad thing in itself, it can cause "adverse reactions" just like vaccines, but the additional chemical additives used in the processing of and manufacture of tobacco cigarettes are extremely dangerous, the same is true of vaccines - it says so right on the fucking vaccine vial/the box it comes in, "potential for extreme adverse reactions", there is a federal vaccine damage victim's compensation fund for kids turned retarded by the vaccines, it already exists, it's already validated by the government.

but, just like all the easily fooled retards and corrupt doctors/med establishments used to do with cigarettes, they are paid to say "there's no problem here, these are good for your health, us doctors suggest 3 cigarettes a day at least, and X Brand too!". and "best practices from our pharma friends indicate that there's nothing wrong with smoking!". They literally did the same thing with smoking that they are doing with vaccine damage now - pretending there's nothing wrong, paying people to defraud everyone, and getting away with it because people are so fucking easy to brainwash, attacking people in the media, hiding and providing fraudulent research data and studies, etc. This is par for the course with the medical establishment.

it's obvious that there's a problem with chemicals in vaccines, otherwise there wouldn't be a federal vaccine damage victim's compensation fund in DC for kids whose parents can prove they were irreversibly damaged by vaccines, and it's obvious that people get damaged by them commonly enough to cause epidemic of problems related to vaccines. when you say "you think vaccines are cool", what are you actually saying? go watch the free documentary "Bought" and then tell us about how your views afterward, or try to debunk the facts contained there, or try to justify your view.

who knows, maybe you're just a PR firm troll paid to respond "reasonably" (just like the "reasonable" response by doctors in the past to the ''ridiculous claim'' that smoking kills or is dangerous) any time vaccines are mentioned.

god knows the pharmaceutical companies can afford PR firm work, can't they? I was never big on the whole "vaccine debate" because I think everyone in it is retarded as they ignore and deny obvious facts, like the fact that vaccines say right on the warning label posted on the product box/vial that it can cause extremely severe 'adverse reactions' that can result in brain damage or systemic health damage. So what kind of idiot is going to say "vaccines are cool"? The IDEA of inoculating people against diseases "is cool", shooting dangerous chemical-laced drugs into little kids veins without concern because you're too stupid to hold the pharmaceutical company to simple safety standards? That's not so cool. But the retarded masses get their views from TV, and TV says "you're bad if you question vaccination, you're evil evil bad bad bad".

Have you looked at the warning label on the vaccines? What does it say? Why then do you think it's cool to risk giving kids brain damage or systemic chronic autoimmune diseases? What you said about vaccines doing more good than bad, how do we know that if we're not allowed to look into it or discuss it? Some people would say the same about smoking, "it does more good than bad for humanity due to the economics involved". The dead and the damaged would disagree, not that this would ever reach the ears of the very rich who think earth is too overpopulated anyway and that they're doing everyone a service by destroying humans and preventing people from breeding by making them sick or retarded.

Pro SAFER vaccines. Pro BETTER science free of corporate greed and manipulation.

Welcome to the club. I've been downvoted for saying I support vaccination efforts, but that I also value individual liberty and would never mandate vaccinations. I mean, that seems a reasonable, well-thought-out position to me... apparently not to others.

Rule 10 is not a complicated rule.

If you educated yourself, you would know that this is one of the greatestconspiracy stories of our time. Can I "smack your head?"

Average vote 7.5 /10 REALLY!!!

Because children are going into the doctor's office healthy individuals, and leaving that same day individuals with nerve damage, sleep disorders, cognitive impairments, and some of them are even dying. How is that okay?

"Vaccine ‘herd immunity’ is hit-and-miss; outbreaks of disease sometimes erupt in those who follow recommended vaccine schedules. If they do actually “immunize”, vaccines provide only short-term immunity so, in an attempt to maintain ‘herd immunity’, health authorities hold ‘cattle drives’ to round up older members of the ‘herd’ for administration of booster shots. And on it goes, to the point that, now, it’s recommended we accept cradle-to-grave shots of vaccine against pertussis, a disease which still persists after more than sixty years of widespread use of the vaccine.

Russell Blaylock, MD remarks, “One of the grand lies of the vaccine program is the concept of “herd immunity”. In fact, vaccines for most Americans declined to non-protective levels within 5 to 10 years of the vaccines. This means that for the vast majority of Americans, as well as others in the developed world, herd immunity doesn’t exist and hasn’t for over 60 years.”3

In the pre-vaccine era, newborns could receive antibodies against infectious diseases from their mothers who had themselves been infected as children and re-exposed to the diseases later in life. Today’s babies born to mothers who were vaccinated and never exposed to these diseases do not receive these antibodies. In direct contrast to fear mongering disease “facts” and ‘herd immunity’ theories related by Public Health, most of today’s babies are more vulnerable than babies of the pre-vaccine era."

Herd immunity refers to the immunity conferred by actually contracting and surviving the disease within a population. Not the artificial, temporary immunity conferred by vaccination. See links below for more information.

I personally believe there are benefits to vaccines and I believe they work for the most part. I've never gotten measles or diphtheria. I also think like any medicine, overdose is toxic. And I think injecting infants and toddlers is akin to medical battery and until we have real systems in place to identify and screen out those who will have adverse reactions, I will continue to say no to vaccines. There are some vaccines I'd reevaluate when my children are at an age and weight I think is reasonable to subject them to what is an undeniable assault to their systems. But chickenpox? Measles? Fuck off with that shit. Those are inflammatory diseases that when contracted normally in childhood PRIME the immune system to fight off other, more serious diseases. LIKE FUCKING CANCER. http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2013/01/29/measles-vaccines-part-ii-benefits-of-contracting-measles-by-dr-viera-scheibner-phd/

More on herd immunity. http://vaccine-injury.info/tetyana.cfm

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/02/18/the-deadly-impossibility-of-herd-immunity-through-vaccination-by-dr-russell-blaylock/

http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/the-herd-immunity-myth-and-how-it-pits-parent-against-parent/

http://www.stopmandatoryvaccination.com/public-health/myth-4-herd-immunity/

Nice anecdote, next you'll say it was worse or the same as the actual flu.

Maybe you wouldn't vaccinate your kids, or an elderly person in your care, but I'd say that's abusive and people shouldn't be in your care if you make decisions like that.