So how do we counter-attack?

[deleted]

I try to do this. But unfortunately people don't like to look at the evidence.. Let alone believe it as it doesn't fit in to how they want to view the world. I'm just thankful a few of us can see that the world isn't full of sugar, rainbows and lollipops.

I also believe that this whole election is just a distraction so people can turn their focus on that rather than looking at what else is going on. I have noticed that the TPP has almost vanished from the public eye.

I appreciate your insite btw. Its always good to gather others opinions and ideas.

[deleted]

I'll take a stab at this, since I've thought about it much myself. You don't have to have respect for people's opinions, if those opinions go against the truth – and if you are actively seeking the truth, you'll know that you're not to assume their opinion isn't true, unless you have well-sourced evidence to the contrary.

What you can respect is their humanity, and you have a greater capacity for this respect if you have looked into how humanity has been shaped, poisoned, brainwashed and misinformed over the last 50, 100, 200, 1,000, or 3,000 years (pick one). With that understanding, you can have true empathy with people who believe Arabs took out the WTC and think we should be bombing the hell out of anyone the government says, etc. – but you do not have to respect those beliefs, and "respect" is a concept that is nearly irrelevant in that situation. Simply understanding and accepting their humanity is the end of your responsibility, IMHO.

I'll take it one step further and say that it needs to become OK to despise falsehood, lies, and propaganda – to hate and not tolerate their propagation quietly. It's also important to speak openly and freely about them. If you're talking to an HC supporter (who's not paid to be one, if there are any), you should proudly describe her as a drug-running psychopathic war criminal without any fear of offending the listener; you are not, in fact, offending the listener at all. Telling the truth doesn't mean you are disrespecting someone else's beliefs, even if they perceive it that way.

I'll stop. Thanks for listening. It's an interesting problem.

[deleted]

I agree with your disagreement. In my first paragraph, I assert that we shouldn't assume someone's opinions or beliefs aren't true; add that we should always be open to being wrong or learning more.

Ideas may develop out of the same generalized processes, but there is a great schism presently between those who are looking for truth and those who accept and believe objectively provable lies. This creates a lot of cognitive and philosophical dissonance for those who both love truth and want to love their fellow humans.

I agree with what you are saying. I also fall into this mind set and it is pretty hard to keep an open mind against something you believe in. It's like Christans trying to see and understand the world through a Muslims or a Satanists. That may not be the best example, but it's the only comparison I can think of that is somewhat close to the idea.

Also, I wouldn't say it's to late. Maybe we should start posting about it again to remind people about it. From what I have seen and/or experienced, from other users, a lot of people come to this sub that don't believe in conspiracy theories. However, they do visit to find out news that isn't completely biased or censored by other subs. I understand Reddit has been taken over by shills, yet(from what I see) this sub still has more of a freedom of thought/speech process than the other news subs on this site. Maybe we can try to shift the public eye back twords the TPP. Even if we fail, at least we can say we tried rather than do nothing. But these all my personal thoughts.

[deleted]

I believe that HRCs idea of "correct the record" is another way of her saying "sabotage anything and everything that I doesn't like hearing and which may hurt my reputation/expose her corrupt nature to the public eye."

No matter how hard I try, I cannot understand the mind set of HRC supporters. Her is an old post I made where I tried to get into the mind of one, but people didn't like it very much.

[deleted]

I have. Unfortunately he is one of my friends. I once told him about the voter fraud going on and his response was along the lines of "Sweet. That's a good thing." Although after a shit ton of work, I got him to switch to Sanders. I personally believe in politicians myself, but at least I had him switch from someone who could possibly be the devil, lol.

Political theater is always a great distraction. Keep your eyes open.

Grab a bag of popcorn, reach hand into bag, proceed to put popcorn into mouth, repeat the process until the elections are over.

Also, learn a foreign language and figure out where else to live. I can't see anything good to come if either of the frontrunners win.

Ok. Not a bad idea. Now if you don't mind, can you explain how that would help?

Edit: changed 'th' to.'you'

I think they were implying there isn't anything that can be done.

[deleted]

Hey, I hear you. But the missing variable is collusion with unknown persons. It's the prisoner's dilemma. If everyone rose up - something would happen. But in order to get to that state, you need everyone.

[deleted]

Oh, no, that's nonsense. It's not "I can't have everything so I don't want anything". I want something, and to get it requires everything. A fine difference, but important.

But alright, since you seem convinced that an individual can make a difference - what would you suggest one do?

I see it as more of a 'something can be done, but no one is willing to do it' type of thing. Not trying to attack or anything, just offering my opinion.

Yeah, it's cool no worries.

Shilling can be very very effective, but only when done in complete secrecy. The fact that this is in the MSM completely diffuses the incredible power that good shilling can have.

The thing is, we know she's corrupt, our parents know she's corrupt, but our grandparents don't. And they vote no matter what. I think we need a get-out-the-vote-to-old-folks push. And they need it from different sources. They're deluged with bullshit from TV constantly...If I tell them something, the listen, but don't heed. If someone else says the same thing, I get props, but they still don't heed. If they hear it from another place, they think about it and heed.

It's like getting your ideas adopted in a group full of egos. Tell your boss and five other people one at a time, who also tell your boss as if it were their idea. Then, your boss brings it up as his or her idea. Profit silently.

Actually curious here, but if (in all likelihood) Hillary becomes the nominee, wouldn't it make sense for Dems to rally behind her despite her issues? That's what typically happens. I don't think it's necessarily manipulation, that's just what happens in any two (significant) party system.

Whaddaya think Trump is for? He's running to ensure that his female wedding guest gets elected.

Case in point, the masses seem to be at the whim of the likes of Faux News. The Faux News's in a country broadcast handle the television aspect of the so-called news. Television as a way to attain the news appears to be still favourable with the older folks (for a lack of a better term). As for Reddit, being an example of getting the so-called news online, it tends to be a platform for the younger crowd and shilling was probably made for that. Made for "broadcasting" news to users.

Ever since the internet websites and social media became mainstream some of the media focus shifted to those platforms. Television news often referred to social media. For instance about someone's status update, tweet etc. That would be an example of endorsement for the tv news and social media platform which could get the tv news recognition as well as relevance and the social media platform advertising. In essence the propaganda tries to use Reddit as an avenue to those that cbf about news all together. Before the mainstream adaptation of the internet itself once could open a tv guide, flip to the ratings table and find that the nightly news were at the top or near the top of the ratings. There was also a time when the whole family would sit around the tv to watch the news. As we know here the tv news tend to be propaganda channels like wise the newspapers and the rest.

The shilling, trolling, botting and brigading is a variant of the propaganda as witnessed on the mainstream media. Along with the pundits and talking heads those false witnesses were recruited. An oblivious 12 year old could be trolled and it really calls to talking about that sort of thing to kids as some of their methods would constitute as online bullying imho. While the political climate escalates towards the end of year elections activity is likely to increase too. Keep your wits about you and take it from there.

i would rather pull my dick off than vote for that criminal bitch

When you said, 'average Reddit user", you meant "average temporary bridgade account by a company being paid by hillary". People won't change their opinion on her, we've had a decade to know what a fucking crazy, ruinous bitch she is and how she'll usher a new era of draconian, fascist statism the likes of which you won't have seen since nazi germany. She's not into preserving our rights and wants perpetual war. Bernie is as opposite to her as he can be. And you're etiher for Bernie or for Trump at this point.

Shut the fuck up Donnie

I agree with your disagreement. In my first paragraph, I assert that we shouldn't assume someone's opinions or beliefs aren't true; add that we should always be open to being wrong or learning more.

Ideas may develop out of the same generalized processes, but there is a great schism presently between those who are looking for truth and those who accept and believe objectively provable lies. This creates a lot of cognitive and philosophical dissonance for those who both love truth and want to love their fellow humans.