I think the biggest issue with this post is that you somehow feel the need to mix the systems that have caused America to be the way it is with the systems that can fix America and make it brand new.

You're holding on to the same pyramid system that has you oppressed.

“I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.” - Harriet Tubman

Sir, I believe we need a restart in American values and what we deem as right. There is no point in blaming the average Joe because he/she is a product of their environment.

Had the environment started off in a peaceful, clean and fair model, I don't think you would be able to say the same thing. I do believe their are many people that regardless of if the sky is falling that want to aspire to be more but there are a lot of people who don't and they have good reason to feel such a way. This point of view is not necessary because it doesn't actually effect you at all. Majority of America's money problems stem from other countries holding gigantic power over the currency in which America uses.

Everyone in America could get $2000.00 a month no issue without it ever hurting the economy because people would simply spend it right back to American stores, just like right now, majority of America lives UNDER the poverty line. Proof that it really doesn't matter how the money comes in, it's all about if it's going back out.

Maybe the problem you have is that all of your hard work in studying, schooling, etc, will not keep you separated from those that you feel don't do as much for a living but regardless, the only connection you have with those people are the economy and as long as they are spending (which Americans are famous for), it effects you in no way, other than ego.

Where would that money come from? It would come from taxes. Specifically income taxes. I don't find sales tax or other consumption taxes as repugnant, but income tax is wrong because it's done through force.

I'm mad now that we spend billions on war which only goes to enrich defense contractors and similar goal/Wall Street elite. Sure I'd rather have that money go to people who need a living wage, but the only thing that will happen in reality is that with more going through the system, more will simply get funneled to the corporatocracy which is protected from taxes anyway by the federal government.

You are asking that the government bestow a gift to you... And not only atre you giving the federal government more power, you are blind to the fact that they are the bastard of the bunch! The government may not be the source of all the evil in this world...But rest assured it is the government that is the enabler of all the evil in the world. Do you think Rothschild has just been lucky at duping the government since the 18th century? No! He's bribed them for that power... And now as debtor-slaves, the government still plays the game, giving bankers power and debt, in exchange for liquidity to fund more war to pillage resources off other countries, and enrich corporations that sell war goods....Everything done by the government is done for their benefit. They may soon it to look like they care about The People on occasion, but trust me, that's only window dressing. Everything is tainted with greed and corruption.

And further, while the corporatocracy is bad...the corporations didn't take an oath pledging to you, the American Citizen, his honorable service in your best interest....the corporations do not have standing armies. So realize it's actually the power of the government which makes the corporations the menace that everyone complained about at Occupy.

For fucks sake, just say no to any more government involvement. Cut the government's power in half, and in less than 15 years, these huge corporate dynasties would begin to deteriorate...And we would slowly be able to throw off these chains of debt, and not need to pay 30-50% off our income to the federal government. We would fucking prosper!

Edit: sorry this rambles. I gotta get to work and this topic of UI (the $2000) just got my ire up...Because it's so god-damn shortsighted and those who advocate for it really miss the forest for the trees.

If we cut the government power in half the corporation power doubles. Think about that.

What happens then? That's why I mention that corporations do not have standing armies. They can't go to war with us (The People). Without their alliance with corrupt government, which protects them through enforcing unfair laws designed to give them an edge (think about the law that was passed on behalf of AT&T and Comcast that prohibited municipalities from constructing their own internet!! How insane is that?? And how shitty is that for people living in those cities with literally only dial-up internet?? Does that law do ANYTHING, except help the corporations, and fuck those municipalities? And if the municipalities decide to say, "Fuck it, we're going to build it anyway". If the cable provider wants to he can file a complaint and the government can send people (with guns) to physically STOP the construction of cheaper internet service by that town!!!!! That's why the government is far more evil).

You have been misled by liberal rhetoric that government is the savior. It's so incredibly false!

What happens then? That's why I mention that corporations do not have standing armies. They can't go to war with us (The People).

Ah they cannot go to physical war, no that would be insane. What they can do is use economic warfare on the people, which they do already. It's a long drawn out process that causes people around the world to suffer.

Think of the families broken up because of economical reasons.

Think of the people being killed on a day to day basis because of economical reasons.

Think of how many people dropped out of school because they had to help take of their families?

How many people commit suicide because they can't take of their families

Corporations hold all this control over people, much worse then the government because the corporations, as you said put it, have no real bond for the people. They don't care they are putting GMO's in the food because GMO's make money. They don't care you're dying of cancer because cancer makes money, they don't care if medicine prices are too high because again, it makes them money.

The idea that our government is so big bad wolf is false, our government is effected by capitalism the same way we are. This is why lobbying is everywhere, had those same men and women not felt the need to betray humanity for the love of money, many of those laws would have never been passed but again, capitalism breeds this type of behavior and once a few do it, a few years pass and everyone is doing it.

We shouldn't be at war with our government but rather remove bad and broken pieces from our government. We need to ban lobbying and all these other methods that corporations use to control our government thus control us in the end.

Again the problem isn't that our government is bad, it's that capitalism controls our government through the corporations who control more than 50% of the world wealth.

No. You stress still missing it. The corporations are more or less responsible for a part of those economic woes. There are a million smart energetic people out there. But they can't start a business because of regulations and taxes and fees and you know what? The corporations love that. Capitalism should offer anyone who didn't want to over pay, buy GMOs, use a bank that charges $4 for an ATM withdrawal, or anything else! But it can't, because we have this corporate socialism in place that keeps them at the top...able to cause you misery because the government won't prosecute them enough, won't keep them honest, and won't allow a newcomer with a better idea and a better more desirable product to enter the market!!

That's economics. You have to think about everything that's happening!! Not just what you see.

You should read that pdf I linked above someplace. You eyes will be opened.

And you should also read the Road To Serfdom..another brilliant book... I know what I'm talking about because I studied it intensively for years. I didn't even care about the economy. But I did admire the constitution. But then after 9/11, I looked at the big picture. What I saw...And what historians and philosophers, and our own founding fathers (Madison and Jefferson) all said was that essentially that the government that governs best, governs least. This is true. it's even in some quote of Madison's ....

Here is an extended quote. It's from the federalist paper#51. Madison is warning about the concentration of power in government (emphasis is mine):

"The provision for defense [against the harm from a concentration of power in the government] must in this, as in all other cases, be made commensurate to the danger of attack. Ambition must be made to counteract ambition. The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

His point is that men are evil. So how can we prevent government from becoming evil because it always will?? Men are evil...! But for some reason you have conflated men who work in corporations and the men who work in government. You think that somehow they are genetically different! They are no different!

And we still haven't learned the lesson of that last paragraph of Madison's above: that these precautions we must take start with the dependence by the government *on the people.*** This is the primary way you keep government in check. You need to keep them on a very fucking short leash.

But all you want to do is make yourself more dependent on government. That is a history-proven recipe for disaster...

Give me an extra 2k and I wont spend it, sorry... Millions of others out there like me. I'll save it (hoard it in your mind), mainly just because I can and a rainy day. When will you utopian college kids learn..... Fuck...

Give me an extra 2k and I wont spend it, sorry... Millions of others out there like me. I'll save it (hoard it in your mind), mainly just because I can and a rainy day. When will you utopian college kids learn..... Fuck...

Yes but this is literally you working against the system on purpose to prove a point, not actually living out a scenario where you don't have to struggle and everybody is happy, it's not the same thing.

There are so many different aspects on how the system could be set like you only keep 50% of what you have left for the next month but still get the next $2000.00, the rest automatically goes back to the government in order provide money for others. The economy would literally feed itself...

Keeping money circulating so that new ideas can be brought to life is not only healthy for the economy but it's helpful for the public. No telling how many innovative ideas are out there wasting away in the minds of some underprivileged human.

I don't feel that's bad to feel at all, I think that a world where everyone can get along, be happy, not starve, and create is a good world, anyone that thinks that this is it for humanity is just a downer.

Wake and smell the coffee folks, you're no better using capitalism, all that gets you is the privilege of saying, "hey at least I'm not [insert minority]". You gotta break that mentality man or else /r/conspiracy is just one big circle jerk for a bunch of racists.

Prove me wrong.

Here is a great beginning primer on economics. It's called Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazelit. It's a pdf, but it fits perfectly on my cell phone screen for reading. It probably could be read it in 20 minutes. It's extremely straightforward.

198 pages in 20 mins?

Ok.That was an unintentional—but earnest—underestimate. One page was taking me about 20 seconds initially. But I had read it before...and though it's straightforward, it still requires some thought. So sorry about that.

I bookmarked it and will look at it a bit later, thanks.

^PDF Warning

^{I'm a bot for the convenience of mobile users}

^{Code | Contact}

Yes but this is literally you working against the system on purpose to prove a point, not actually living out a scenario where you don't have to struggle and everybody is happy, it's not the same thing.

Nah, just personal preference. I'm not the only one....

There are so many different aspects on how the system could be set like you only keep 50% of what you have left for the next month but still get the next $2000.00, the rest automatically goes back to the government in order provide money for others. The economy would literally feed itself...

How? I hoard my cash, save and buy land.. I don't like snickers or new kicks.....

Keeping money circulating so that new ideas can be brought to life is not only healthy for the economy but it's helpful for the public. No telling how many innovative ideas are out there wasting away in the minds of some underprivileged human.

You're assuming people will circulate excess money. You're like the text book example of Marxism/Keynesian economics. Back to the drawing board idealist/commie.

I don't feel that's bad to feel at all, I think that a world where everyone can get along, be happy, not starve, and create is a good world, anyone that thinks that this is it for humanity is just a downer.

Cool dude. Humans and life are not that way. Nature is not that way. You can deny or accept. Your choice.

I don't feel that's bad to feel at all, I think that a world where everyone can get along, be happy, not starve, and create is a good world, anyone that thinks that this is it for humanity is just a downer.

Wake and smell the coffee folks, you're no better using capitalism, all that gets you is the privilege of saying, "hey at least I'm not [insert minority]". You gotta break that mentality man or else /r/conspiracy is just one big circle jerk for a bunch of racists.

Put the meth pipe down. Why are you comparing capitlism to racism? Oh, I know... You think niggas were tha kangz and kwaynez n shit..... Back to the drawing board, you illiterate, imp....

Prove me wrong.

/Drops mic, bitch....

You're assuming people will circulate excess money. You're like the text book example of Marxism/Keynesian economics. Back to the drawing board idealist/commie.

What's wrong with Keynesian economics, again you are literally saying you would do it wrong on purpose just to prove a point. This is egoistical beyond belief, life is not some game of "chicken", stop trying to make it like it's so serious, this is child like behavior. "Oh I wouldn't spend any of it because I'm right" is not an answer, it's a simple say to place a contradiction into the conversation. Can we debate this like adults or do you enjoy being the one kid on the playground who can do it all?

Cool dude. Humans and life are not that way. Nature is not that way. You can deny or accept. Your choice.

Yes, humans are, if everyone is happy how can the world be wrong? Capitalism emboldens the idea of usury of others. Because you or I cannot establish a point of origin in the business world, we are forced to work for others that have gained their wealth and position off the backs of our ancestors. You are saving dollars that literally have no backup, and when it fails (and it will fail just like every other fiat currency), the world will feel it, not just us.

Put the meth pipe down. Why are you comparing capitlism to racism? Oh, I know... You think niggas were tha kangz and kwaynez n shit..... Back to the drawing board, you illiterate, imp....

Almost but not completely, you see what capitalism and racism have in common is the need to feel better or higher than someone else. In fact capitalism breeds this type of mentality. In fact the richer you get, the less racially dynamic you become. It becomes more of a classicism idea then a racist idea but the two do have common settings. The idea that you need to feel more "secure" then someone else is a form of discrimination. Considering the fact that it's poor whites and blacks that fit that certain narrative, it does become noticeably racist.

The idea I project is a better world for both blacks and whites and it can be gained as long as you realize that one upping the other side is not necessary and backwards. When both blacks and whites feel this, there will be real progress made for America. Until then I suppose we are at differences on how the world can and should be ran.

By the way, isn't Russia just a socialist country with a new democratic tag stamped on it?

Well, since it seems like Suge Knight is in the house somewheres.. I give this to you /u/Putin_loves_cats and /u/FREETHOUGHTSOPEN

But Hayek and Mises win in my opinion. Keynes was wrong and his theories were largely adopted over the Austrian philosophy as Keynesian principles seemed to give politicians (and people they needed to mollify) the ability to create the illusion that they could reduce everything to a few variables and thereby control the economy like the Wizard of Oz (i.e., the federal reserve).

You make countless incorrect assertions and assumptions about capitalism. But I understand that is what you see. But what you see is not capitalism.

I'm sorry but it doesn't seem like it's that hard to understand capitalism. It in encourages the worst traits of humanity to be at the top. Lying, stealing, using money earned off the backs of others, watching others starve and forgetting what the hell it is we are here for.

It's like I said before, it breeds a different type of human. All these charities and BS that don't even do what they are set up to do but instead make others rich. People sell out their nation, our futures without ever really caring about the consequences and they do it constantly.

The only thing capitalism has given us is a feeling of being better than a lower part of the pyramid. Even then, the margin is so small compared to poor and barely making it (where most of America is now), it doesn't even matter! What about the fact that we should be making $20.00 an hour? These capitalist that own these corporations won't even give the people living wages we're damn there at sweat shop wages. That doesn't make you feel a certain type of way?

Just reading this although I responded to a later comment of yours already.

I know exactly how you feel. I'm not some person who thought people at occupy were lazy. I know their complaints are valid. I know they are mad and so am I.

But really, if you ever read a book about free markets (by Adam Smith or Bastiat), you'd see that it's the most mutually-beneficial system. It evolved naturally over time and it is responsible for all innovation. But in every case throughout history, it was ruined by power from government. I mean even the nemesis of this forum, the Rothschild Family used and still uses State power. They are not where they are today simply through hard work. They bribed, and government accepted and their power became what it is over the last 250 years.

You should read the Creature from Jekyll Island. It would wake you up so thoroughly. It's a powerful book. When you read it, you realize that every shitty thing that has happened only could have happened with the marriage of business and government (in the federal reserve).

I went to law school and became an attorney. I happened to enjoy Constitutional law the most. While I was a practicing attorney and I made really good money for awhile, I didn't like some of the shitty things I saw. I tried to invest in some real assets but lost them and much of everything I had in the Crash of 2008-2009. It's been a struggle since then...But I blame this economy, not my employability... The economy (or our currency) has been destroyed by the last administration along with the Fed (and it's mostly the Fed). Read this article regarding who's on the board of the Fed... It's all the old families. And now they control the world but they managed to do it only because they were given the power by our government.

It was my love of Constitutional law in law school that allowed me to see how everything that is so shitty today is because the government was allowed to be taken over because we let them...out of our own fear and stupidity. Just like our fear and stupidity lead to the Patriot Act!

All those things you said...The tragedy of people who commit suicide because of their inability to earn a living and others.... I understand that! Especially for men, who define themselves by their career or vocation, ...it sucks! But it's not the fault of them or simply of capitalism. And if what you are seeing looks like capitalism is to blame, it's because capitalism doesn't function in Free market (which means it's not capitalism).

I could obviously go on and on. But I ask that you just read Creature from Jekyll Island. That book isn't necessarily anti-government (which I am), but it shows you how the State corrupted everything by allowing bankers to be in charge of a central U.S. bank.

Let me know.. I can even send you the epub of it.

Edit: length

[removed]

You are brainwashed, you think I am the enemy but I am actually your savior. I am considered the lowest form of human to them, you think your struggles are bad but you have never struggled.

Greed/Lust/Envy/Gluttony are defeated when people can pay their rent and still afford their favorite items. When people are taught that they are loved from childhood and not hated by society, all these things will go away. When you perpetuate your ideals, you are hurting yourself.

Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

[removed]

You just lost my respect.

lol, why?

Because you're more unbiased when discussing flat earth than you are about discussing the history of African Americans.

You're a bigot.

I was just eating a roll, while taking a stroll ;)

You were being a fuckwit, while talking loads of shit ;)

Keeps people guessing... I like it that way. I'm surprised people do not understand that about me by now.....

Whatever.

I don't really think that that excuses that kind of behaviour. If you wanna explore your cunt side, do it in your own space rather than project it at someone who's genuinely concerned with finding the truth.

Man o man, you must be drunk tonight!

Lay off the vodka!

Lay off the vodka!

Haven't been in the Eastern block for some time, but we have a saying: looks like water, tis' water....

Please quit it with the racial slurs. And don't give me the "they're just words" BS, you know exactly what you were doing here. Play nice.

Rules 1 & 10. Removed.

Plus, there's the hundreds of thousands of people who will willingly become homeless to spend their $2,000 on alcohol and crack. I love the idea of BUI because of the inherent freedom it implies but Americans sure as fuck don't deserve it if they're going to spend that money on beer or playing XBox for the rest of their pathetic lives. Fucking people ruining other peoples' lives is what it amounts to.

the systems that have caused America to be the way it is with the systems that can fix America and make it brand new.

Socialists always blame the problems created by Fascism/Socialism encroaching into an economy on Capitalism. Then present the real problem as the solution. Government economic interventionism and Command Economy are the problem. We no longer have Capitalism. The whole system has been perverted by Fascism and socialism.

This brand new system you speak of is a very old system that has proven it's self to be a failure over and over,. Thus the use of deception to trick people into falling for the same old trick again.

This brand new system you speak of is a very old system that have proven it's self to be a failure over and over,. Thus the use of deception to trick people into falling for the same old trick again.

Ah, but you forget, America always duz it best. I don't think we will make the same mistakes as people in the past. If we have the right people pushing the idea and behind it fully, I don't think it can go wrong.

On the other hand, capitalism has shown itself to be far worse than socialism. The control of the dollar has led to many misfortunes in the past that we would have not had - had we had socialism. It's not that crazy of a thought either, a regulated pay out by the government for the people in order to satisfy their needs and wants so everybody wins.

I'm not saying go full Ming, but I do think there are a lot of great ideas that socialism holds that can be harnessed into making America a better country. Half of us are already subscribed to these types of payouts anyways. It's the admittance part that many fail to actually mention.

Socialism didn't fail, it was beaten to death by people who didn't want to see it flourish, there is a major difference. Demonize socialism just like they demonized Hitler, I'm an American but I'm a globalist first. I honestly think there should be a form of global socialism that doesn't allow not one child to go hungry. I'm not talking about some white guy walking down the train tracks standing next to a bunch of starving Africans while his bank accounts hits 8 digits, I'm talking about good old fashioned human love where as long as everybody is happy, I'm good too.

If that's bad in your eyes, I'm sorry you feel that way.

I don't think we will make the same mistakes as people in the past. If we have the right people pushing the idea and behind it fully, I don't think it can go wrong.

HAHAHAAHAHA!!! And YOU are willing to submit everyone's freedom, future, and lives to these enlightened leaders to "do it right this time"? HAHA what a fucking joke. WOW I heard it all now.

I've seen the comments you got trying to set you straight. And you still try to push this commie propaganda on me? FUCK YOU commie scum FUCK reddit and it's propaganda army

Look how emotional you are right now, a simple comment on Reddit has gotten you all wound up. I said if the perfect conditions were met, we could do implement systems that could save lives, spread wealth and create happiness around the world and you basically said, You're scared.

How can you not see the better world that I'm viewing.

Limited consciousness. All these commentors in here besides you are riddled with fear.

We as humans have infinite creative capacity and work best when working together but our creative output is stifled by social conditioning, prussian brainwashing prisons for schools, food to make us sick, advertising to fuck our self esteem, attacked from every front to turn us into sick, depressed, apathetic, individuals yet we've still managed to create all the amazing things we see in the world in terms of community, art, music, culture.

If we were anywhere near healed and free then there's no question a UBI is the right approach. Money should function simply as a neurotransmitter in the mind of the collective consciousness to exchange value. In time it should be done away with as the incentive for engaging in productive labour and people will create purely because it's their nature to create and they're healed enough to do it.

Damn very deep comment bro this is how exactly how I feel when I read some of the comments here.

http://miraclesandinspiration.com/news_newearth.html

UBI? Fucking hell. Can no-one get that if it were implemented, about 3/4 of Mexico would migrate to the US? Our economy would literally explode.

Libertarianism is the only way. Less government. More personal freedom.

Socialism doesn't work.

Socialism doesn't work.

Socialism is the social ownership of the means of production (e.g. land, raw materials, factories). You're thinking of social programs.

Can no-one get that if it were implemented, about 3/4 of Mexico would migrate to the US?

Do you honestly believe it'd be open to non-citizens?

Libertarianism is the only way. Less government. More personal freedom.

The government needs to be expanded in some areas, and cut back in others.

As much as I disagree with you on /r/DigitalCartel, I'm glad to see that you're sensible politically.

Crazy stuff.

What amuses me is seeing Bernie praise Venezuela and is now silent on it.

How many more failed socialist/marxist/communist states do we need to witness before people realise that it just doesn't work? How much more poverty and death do we need to see in other horribly run countries to know that socialism is not the answer?

The American military has been destroying socialist countries since the days of Smedley D. Butler. To Sept. 11th, 1973 Chile.

South of the Border

They must pose some kind of threat because they are the main countries and leaders targeted by the CIA.

National socialism and socialism are not the same thing. Not even close.

'Hitler rapidly eliminated those who took the “socialist” component in the name of the National Socialist Workers’ Party seriously.’

http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n11/neal-ascherson/hopping-in-his-matchbox

The argument that Nazi Germany was socialist is lame and of course incorrect. You still don't seem to know what socialism is.

That's one example. I think that was about starting their own currency wasn't it. Or rejecting the foreign owned private currency they were once under?

Also: National Socialist Party or Nazi Party may refer to: National Socialist German Workers' Party, or Nazi Party.

Isn't Bernie a Nat socialist (by definition)?.. Funny/Ironic......

I think he refers to himself as a Democratic Socialist.

"No big government" meme is getting real played out. Even anarchism understands that there are necessary structures that will exists. Anarchism (not anarcho-capitalism) aims to get rid of all of the unnecessary structures... not get rid of all collective structures. Flytape is probably on the board at Walmart because the "no big govevrnment" meme is exactly what large corporations that dont want to pay taxes or be regulated would like you to think.

Where To Invade Next (2015) - Michael Moore spends time in other countries where he experiences those countries' alternative methods of dealing with social and economic ills experienced in the United States. A call to arms to capture the American Dream and restore it in, of all places, America.

This post reads like an angsty blog.

I noticed how that post was posted and gained the majority of it's traction during the hours that I was a work.

I don't think we need UBI just more balance. Why does a CEO/President of a company make 200 times more than the lowest worker?

They don't run the company alone. They work with teams of people to help. CFO, COO, Board of Directors, Secretaries, etc.

If a company manufactures a product and the lowest worker isn't there to deliver it, process it, actually make it. Then there is no profit, these people are the lowest paid. but if the CEO goes out the door the company keeps going.

If someone doesn't process the actual product though then the company stops working.

Management is replaceable. Managing is easy.

What's hard is finding a quality worker who can put 6000 30 pound boxes on a conveyor in a timely manner everyday, 9 hours a day, that's 700 an hour, 12 a minute every minute. 40 hours a week.

I think those workers are hard to find and if you paid them a decent wage instead of the lowest and acting like they are so easily replaceable then maybe things could get better.

Well said, mate. Couldn't agree more.

Look how emotional you are right now, a simple comment on Reddit has gotten you all wound up. I said if the perfect conditions were met, we could do implement systems that could save lives, spread wealth and create happiness around the world and you basically said, You're scared.

How can you not see the better world that I'm viewing.

If we cut the government power in half the corporation power doubles. Think about that.