I'm watching MSNBC discuss how he got in the bar with an AR15 and "had a drink" before the attack.

Earlier I was hearing that he fought with the off-duty officer who was doing security.

What?

Between these bits is a picture of an AR15 and the constant dribble that "this is the primary weapon used in mass-shootings" with run downs of past incidents and victim counts.

Talk of him being a terroist is definitely 2nd to him being able to get an AR15.

It really feels like the narrative is, "If he couldn't get this rifle, he wouldn't have killed so many."

Also, 3 hours for the police to go in and confront him? Seriously? Did they just wait for him to run out of bullets/stop killing?

[deleted]

I didn't realize that was before he went in. How it got spun into him "having a drink" first is beyond me.

The other thing that bothers me is that it took 3 hours for the police to get in and stop him. I understand the difficulty in maybe identifying and subduing the shooter in a dark environment, but 3 hours?

Shit like this just makes me want to carry while not legally allowed to do so in places like bars/nightclubs.

When seconds count, the police are only 180 minutes away!

They have completely shown this is a fraud exactly on the ar-15 point, not because of their clearly biased stance, but how it's described.

That fucking shit head who shut the door, he said it was a continuous shooting, he literally confirmed an automatic weapon was used, civilians can't buy those, I'm gonna get that piece just to have that black on white, what he was using was not an ar-15, I love how they screwed themselves over on this one.

I would bet my life that the average person that doesn't own a gun cannot tell between a full auto rifle and someone rapidly firing a semi automatic rifle. Have you ever talked to someone that has never shot or been around guns? They know almost nothing and all their info comes from movies. Most people that don't shoot would be amazed how fast a semi auto weapon can be fired.

This morning they are replaying a clip of a guy mimicking the sound of a full-auto as to what he heard.

This is doing nothing but perpetuating ignorance and fear. Just what they want! A picture of a mean ol Glock has been added to the stock AR15 picture they show every 5 minutes too.

They make triggers that use the force of blowback from the chamber to shove the trigger back into firing position faster. Semi's can be shot at impressive speeds with little extra skill.

Bump-fire for the win. I have a 22LR style AR with a bump fire stock and it might as well be full auto.

Shhhh r/conspiracy is not a sub for rational thought!

Not impossible: Full Auto, Volume 1: AR-15 Modification Manual (The Combat bookshelf)

Nobody would do that, that's illegal!

I thought that required material that would require an extra check or buy, well I learn every day, would this actually hold up very long like the situation he(they) was in?

But I just realized what a stupid idea it is to even try prove anything there and get anywhere with it, just the fact you have multiple independent witnesses claim multiple shooters were there is all we need to ask.

Dude. There's not 1 all true perspective. There's a hundred people who were there and they all have a different perspective.

[deleted]

Are you adopted? How do you know you weren't? How do you know your mom didn't really cheat on your dad? Do you have video evidence of the night you were inseminated? Where are the radio files?

Actually valid questions. Studies have shown that up to 70% of American children are NOT genetically related to both parents, often through infidelity that's undiscovered.

So yes, there actually is no way short of a confirmed DNA test to take your parents at their word. You have a ~30% chance of being right in doing so.

I recommend toning it down on this one. Most people can't tell the difference between full auto and semi auto. Pushing this only gives the doubters something to discredit.

I live in florida, it's pretty easy to buy automatic weapons down here, you can even rent them to shoot at many ranges

OK you guys are really going for a stretch here. I live in Orlando for my whole life. the explosion was a stun grenade. and the media is not telling ppl the whole truth. there are 2 shooters on the loose. that makes 3 shooters total which makes a lot more sense

So, I will have to look into this further myself, but just wondering if anyone else has heard anything like this.

I live near Orlando. I was just talking to my mom about what happened and she mentioned that my brother was downtown at a different club Saturday night. According to him (via her), everyone was being told by police that they had to leave around midnight and that they were really pushy and rude about it and he didn't realize why until they got home and saw this on the news.

From what I've been able to find, that seems too early for the two events to be related (news puts the shooting starting at 2am), but I don't know of any other reason police would be evacuating a nearby club (or more perhaps?) hours before they close on a Saturday night. As I said, I would like to talk to him about it, but haven't gotten a chance yet being that I just heard this a few minutes ago. In the meantime, I figured I'd share this here to see if anyone else might have any information as to some unrelated reason this would have happened. And if anyone has heard similar stories from people or were downtown that night, even better. *Also, keep in mind that this may be a misunderstanding by my mom or my brother being drunk and confused. I promise I'm not posting bullshit intentionally if this turns out to be nothing.

Something like this I would absolutely expect to be on video. If police are kicking people out of a popular club 2 hours early, people are going to be pissed off and want to record it. Lack of video of the shooting seems at least somewhat plausible, as people would be scared for their life, but in the situation where cops are just forcing people out of a club, someone's going to record that.

I agree. If we haven't heard anything else about it by now, it was probably nothing.

I know sometimes when I'm out, my friends and I might leave one club and head to another. Maybe it was an attempt to get them to head to the other club?

I hope collaboratively, all news, photos, testimonies and every other evidence can be collected and shared. 50+ dead over a 3 hour period and no one rushed the guy? Couldn't identify the bodies (apparently they don't allow ID's in that club unless you're the gunman)? Same with inside footage, 300 people there, 200 survived and no one has put a video or pictures up yet (that I've been able to find)? It would take a special kind of person to believe the narrative being fed to us. Unfortunately, everyone I know seems to be that special kind of person. Reminds me of the news telling the nation that it was Osama Bin Laden before the dust had even settled.. Literally!

I've talked about the video part, I found a video right after that was tweeted to them, 300 is an exaggeration because I don't think that many would fit and it was not filled to the brim, but there was certainly quite some people

Sadly they got those removed and I did not save them, I hope I can find them, I'm searching

Could you describe the videos you have seen that have been removed and where you saw them? Disappearing news stories and such is not normal at all, unless there's a public retraction.

Disappearing news stories in the initial hours after a false flag are run of the mill now for at least the last 3 big events.

I could but I don't think people would have much use for them as they don't say much you know?

All you saw was the club, it was very dark in there and I'd say it was semi-busy, you'd see some people all over the place but certainly not completely packed like they say, but nothing really happens it are short videos.

I did see one video on liveleak.com but it didn't show much of anything either. One person was laying on the floor and there weren't that many people. I suppose it could have been taken after the event but if someone was going to take a video inside, I think they would have shown the extent of damage.

http://tmz.me/bl1fcJh

TMZ posted this girl's Snapchat from inside the club when the guns first started firing.

Thank you! I've been looking for something inside for hours. This doesn't satisfy me but it's closer.

Would your first thought seriously be to pull out your phone and start recording?

Yes it would... Maybe 2nd thought after I had hidden. A video recording would help investigators discern exactly what happened and not have to rely on faulty memory of the victims.

Also, I do feel that I would rush the guy, hit him over the head, stab him with glass... something. I'm not a save the day hero or a fighter or anything of that sort, but I still feel I would do at least that. Maybe try to get a group to do it. There was 3 hours to do that and none of 300 people or a group of them did it?

If you actually watch it or have the sligntest idea of how snapchat works you'd realize she was already recording and just happened to catch it in the background. It's pretty obvious she didn't even notice it at first either.

Honestly.. It's a club. Everyone is Snapchat these days. At least one person would've been recording SOMETHING at the time this happened. I've seen people record things in so many situations.

World star hip hop would have the whole thing from 3 angles.

http://tmz.me/bl1fcJh

In 2016? Absolutely in current society. The fact there are not dozens of cell phone videos of the event is much more surprising than there not being.

The guy with the flag shirt and the fedora can be seen in 3 clips that I have seen so far:

Here he is amongst the dead and wounded (and cops and other first-responders) appearing to render first aid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii04Tq5NHQk (at about 0:27)

Here he is carrying a victim down the sidewalk and delivering the least candid line imaginable ("What brought us to Orlando, huh?"): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owJdEsMBVHQ Also notice in this one that he can later be seen standing around the "victim" that he carried.

Here he is being interviewed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz3b2Qv3iwE

He is playing the same role that Carlos Arredondo played during the Boston Show.

That guy has been annoying me so fucking much, I'd never hire him as a fake either, he's super annoying.

So how long did it last?

Yeah eh like 15,20 mins, like 30 you know?

Don't mind me just casually extending my shooting spree with 15 minutes

But we need to find out who that guy that held the door is, now that is a fucking terrorist, he willingly held the door to block people from going out.

I swear to God, yesterday I saw a reply in the megathread with a person who claimed they held the door shut. They said they held the door because there were about 30 people in the alleyway, which the door led to. The people outside had to jump a fence, and he was holding the door shut incase the shooter's were trying to come out that way. He said he would be guilty for the rest of his life if he found out people died because of it. I cant find the thread it was in or remember the guys name. I'm honestly surprised reddit isn't all over it already, bc im not the only one who saw this.

Edit: Found some more info here : https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4nuomc/i_watched_the_orlando_debacle_unfold_from_the/

I saw that same post myself, I don't remember where I saw it but your information about it is more or less correct (I can't say for sure whether the 30 people were mentioned in the post, I don't remember, but otherwise, it's correct)

Yeah I dont remember the exact number. I kinda skimmed through it which is why I dont remember the name or thread it was in :(

Or maybe he's trying to help other human beings in a time of crisis?

It's a crazy world - I suppose anything is possible.

why were the wounded people being carried towards the club from down the block? Did they get shot in the club or down the street? all seem to have leg wounds so I don't think they ran there since they were all being carried. And whats with the pickup truck? are there no ambulances in orlando? These are things i'd like to know.

When the shooting started everyone ran in different directions. Some people made it down the block and just hid there even if they were shot. Once all the cops showed up they started bringing the injured toward the rescue staff.

I heard someone else say they were carrying people in the wrong direction. Do you have any more info on this? I don't know the area so I can't tell the lay of the land from these clips.

google the club and check the street view. you can see they were carrying the people from down by the open mri place and the dunkin donuts. club is in the direction they were carrying them on left hand side of the street in the videos.

Thanks - someone has since posted this video which so the relevant information.

So as a local, I agree that this video shows something rather asinine... But it also cuts out some important information about what is further up that same road. ORMC (Orlando Regional Medical Hospital), which is really one the biggest and arguably best ones in the area.

Small google maps of the distance between that local and the hospital. http://tinyurl.com/gtslsy8

I had left ORMC earlier that night from visiting my mother who had been in the hospital for the past 5 days, at approximately 12:45AM. By the time that we had gotten home and setup to get to bed my mother had begun messaging us that ORMC was on full lock down because of an active shooter, that at that time (~2:00-~2:30) was being reported in the building as possibly being in the hospital.

So to me, it seems completely reasonable that you would head with any injured person, north, up that road, back past the club, to the congregation of emergency vehicles and or to the hospital that is not but 3-4 blocks up the road. The ER being on the south side of the building on that road.

Just wanted to post some context for those not familiar with the area.

thanks! good vid.

It was a hoax, just like Brussels and San Bernardino.

That's what I thought too, but the one guy just doesn't fit in there then, why would he tell a story that's incriminating?

It seems to me like they were keeping all the exits shut and systematically killed everyone in the process to not get leaks out, I'll be surprised if many survive or even get the chance to speak.

That is ridiculous and there isn't a hint of evidence to suggest that is the case beyond your suspicion, but I won't hold you to providing evidence. The fact is the false flag theory doesn't even hold up under it's own logic.

If people had just been massacred, where are all the families crying out for justice claiming the government was behind it. That is what you say in a real false flag like 9/11, but in typical hoax fashion the loved ones of the Orlando Shooting "victims" go right along with the official narrative some even go so far as to push the gun control agenda without even being provoked.

https://twitter.com/InfamousJuan_

Along with the video, we are slowly hearing more and more people who say the same thing, they aren't even given any time on TV, instead all we hear is the crisis actors, I saw this whole thing develop from start to now, they had no link whatsoever and this was reported by multiple officials so they had to create something to link him to IS and the fact they used a group for that which has been linked back to themselves and was created under their own administration says enough, I'm gonna look it up but someone who speaks Arabic says it feels like it was a message they had made rather quickly or not paid much attention to the subtle details that matter to imply an actual link, it felt like they just claimed something they did not even do, so when that was bust.

They suddenly have this entire story out of nowhere with no evidence.

Yeah but that's all layers of disinfo, they're building a rabbit hole so that when people investigate in the future they will present the whole thing as a big mystery will all sorts of loose ends.

They did the same thing in Aurora, Sandy Hook and San Bernardino.

I know, and that's why I'm trying to establish fact from fiction right now, I saw what happened, I could see they desperately tried to get an IS link going, they could not produce the slightest actual evidence and still can't, I could see the proper information melt before my eyes in google as article after article got redacted, it was disgusting.

Right, and I'm just saying the false flag theory doesn't hold up for the same reasons it couldn't in Paris, Brussels and San Bernardino.

Do you mean it will not hold up in the future because of this or now?

Because right now if we push for evidence, they simply do not have it, that's why I'm asking everyone to ask for an independent investigation, the FBI has already established their facts.

Both, it doesn't hold up period. I spent a lot of time debating whether these events were false flags or hoaxes, but since Tucson they all seem to be nothing more than staged drills involving crisis actors and compromised law enforcement.

Stop wasting your time with this user. You are making great points. It was ISIS though. The real question is who are they working with.

Yeaaah I really need to stop doing that, I can only present evidence, not learn people how to think

The government?

^redditor for 3 days, eh?

I'm surpirsed just how skeptical normal people are of this one, read through the comments in /r/news for example, its good people are waking up.

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/4nrsim/islamic_state_claims_worst_shooting_in_us_history/d46bxca

I am a "normal person" without strong views on politics or education on conspiracies... And I am VERY skeptical.... AND I live in Orlando. I am going to continue to keep an open mind to all of the possibilities.

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Noted.

Found the Door guy.. We'll the guy who said he was "holding the door to keep the shooter in" ridiculously stupid and of course dumb as Megan Kelly Smiles and nods . http://bit.ly/1S23kC0

Early on, they were saying, "There are reports that he yelled 'Allahu Akbar' just before opening fire. We're... not sure where that story started. It started circulating, and we don't have any confirmation that that actually happened."

Then a bit later, they just had a mysterious confirmation that that is in fact what happened, but still couldn't really reference any sources except government officials.

That's just one example of this whole thing not sounding right. That with the complete lack of any footage, especially for an event that dragged on for three hours, the interviews with people who were clearly low-budget crisis actors (even the most convincing person was obviously fake), and the fact that somehow they managed to hit on just about every single major issue that they've been pushing for years (gun control, ISIS, LGBT, mass surveillance, war on terror, etc). It was waaaaay too convenient for the government. I call bullshit.

I only had to watch about 10 minutes of live coverage to be convinced that it was either all made up to begin with, or orchestrated by the government. The confirmation of the shooter's background and employment with a contractor who is known to do dirty government jobs only further proves in my mind that this is all a false flag.

Given the public outcry, especially by the LGBT community, I'm pretty sure we just watched what's left of our freedoms die yesterday.

I live in Orlando and have been to this club myself... It's not like a typical club you would picture... Just a huge room basically with dance floor bar, the usual... Pulse actually had several different rooms you could go into with different themes and decor. Now, if the shooter is in a room two rooms away from you for example dont you think SOMEONE, in this day and age where social media rules, would have went live on Facebook, made a snapchat, face timed a loved one to announce what was going on? Someone would have easily been able to do this without the killer hearing or seeing if that's what they were scared of... (Since people are saying it's not surprising no one got it recorded, or since no one has come Forward with anything along those lines, its because people were to scared to think or consider social media) I call bullshit... Social media is life this day and age. Also, interesting to me that they haven't really talked about what they found inside the club, and we haven't been allowed to see the gun used... I could go on and on and i have never even considered conspiracy theories before about anything... The more i watch the news the more doesn't make sense though, even to a commoner like me.

All I have to say about the event is this: I'm bothered that in our current political/statist climate that when something like this happens, I have no time to be outraged at the perpetrator, and I have no time to sympathize with the victims or their families, because I'm scrambling frantically to see what the fallout is going to be for ME, how MY rights and privileges are going to be f-ed with by grandstanding politicians and attention-seekers and career-makers. All too often a tragedy for some like this can be turned into a catastrophe for all, mostly innocent people, by bad laws in response to 'do something' to 'solve the problem'.

And I hate this fact.

I watched the interviews for a little while. Many people were reading off a TelePrompTer. The interviewer and interviewee stances were sideways and awkward. Many seemed rehearsed. Very odd ball.

Interview of the Flag Guy from a diffrent angle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTKs2fR1rBA ...maybe able to find more? Interviews from other angles?

Who decides what the "right information" is?

So, they're trying to supress the fact that there were multiple shooters by having thier 'paid crisis actors' talk about thinking there might've been multiple shooters.

And they're supressing info and putting forward a pre-planned narrative, and the evidence for that is the fact that the narrative keeps changing.

This 'changing narrative' stuff always happens in the chaos of reporting a spree shooting. The one thing all witnesses agree on is that they didn't really know what the fuck was going on; changing reports of the number of shooters happens just about every time.

I'd be more suspect if there wasn't a chaotic, confused narrative that varied from witness to witness.

I just watched 2 days ago the movie London has fallen. What stuck out to me was when the bad guy comes on the phone to talk to the Secretary of state and all the generals and says " I'm bringing the fight to your own back yard not hundreds of miles away" kind of rings true now days.

Yeah and I'll be honest, that got me worried with Trump too.

He has access to all the intelligence so can get an honest view on things and the way he talks about these things it's hard to tell if he is involved and if so, how, or that he is just playing along, but especially now I think his tone does not help anyone, he should know this already raises tensions, so why raise them even further.

Brenda Marquez McCool was a victim at pulse her son has already set up a gofundme account and his facebook says he is from San Bernardino

nothing will be done by anyone.

Check out the threads from the Rupaul's Drag Race sub. https://np.reddit.com/r/rupaulsdragrace/comments/4npch1/not_sure_if_this_is_totally_rpdr_relevant_but/

Misinformation? It all seems legit to me.

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Or...it's just a crazy Muslim shooting up a gay nightclub

Someone should waterboard that creep who stood outside holding the door shut.

But why? Why would the government do this? I'm sorry I just don't believe it, you moan but facts and evidence but then provide nothing to back up your claim. Such a hypocrite

If this were a staged event, and if the instigator were a government actor (remember that it might not be the US government, just as it probably wasn't the US behind 9/11), it would follow a long pattern of public violence to achieve political goals. Edward Bernays pioneered this with his work for United Fruit Company in the 1950s, engineering a coup of Guatemala for corporate interests by manipulating public fear of communism. A similar template could be at work here, except using Islam as the scapegoat instead of communism.

There are a number of corporations and governments who stand to gain handsomely by inspiring anti-Islam sentiment in the American public.

" Make the lie big, repeat the lie and eventually they will believe" -Hitler "We have to brain wash people into thinking about guns in a vastly different way" Eric Holder

Gun Control, Internet spying , war? I dunno but they do.

A vaguely islamic guy uses an 'assault rifle' to murder gays and racks up the biggest kill count in Us History...they couldn't have written that better if they tried. It's a quadrifecta.

it checks all the boxes, and just like 9/11, the MIC can spin this into trillions in spending. Heck, this could start a whole new phase in the War on Terror. It'll certainly at least spur a try at an assault weapons ban, that anti-gun groups can fundraise billions off of. It's a bonanza. Hell, they might even get a New Civil Rights Act out of it.

And keep in mind, those outcomes are with ZERO staging/false-flag. Those things would all still happen, and be hardcore exploited, regardless of the reality of the event. It's just our current political system. No crisis, especially one this big and globally reaching, will be let go to waste. This is a huge gift to the current regime and even if they had nothing to do with it at all, they still get the gift.

Fake as always https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNe3-QmLXO0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la4GCxEhaGs

More gay propaganda and gun controlllers

How about this? A crazy motherfucker stormed a club with some guns and shot up the place. End of story.

But.. but... I somehow want to feel smarter than everyone else! How can I do that now?

No, go away.

Why is that so hard to believe? Everything that happens doesn't have to be a conspiracy with some agenda. Sometimes crazy people do crazy shit.

"Never let a good crisis go to waste."

Sometimes people do said crazy shit, and it ruins the lives of hundreds of millions of innocent people not involved in any way via the fallout.

As one of those hundreds of millions who's probably going to get my rights, privileges, freedoms, and tax money raped by the response to this 'event', I'd like to get a better sense of why it happened than 'shit happens'.

If you're cool with your life being completely changed for reasons you care not to understand, good for you, teach that skill, you'll get rich doing it. Making people vapid mindless drones is a trillion-dollar industry these days.

So just because something affects millions of other people it means that must have been planned out with a hidden agenda? Your statement makes no sense and is completely irrelevant.

With the amount of crazy people in the world this would be an everyday occurrence.

Fuck you, you paranoid maniac. Real people were killed by a real crazy muslim. Face it, this shit happens.